SBC Update: ERLC, Amicus Brief, & NAMB

Conversations That Matter

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Hello again, welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. It's not normal for me to do podcasts this close together

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Because I did one yesterday around lunchtime. And of course, it's the morning.

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It's 1030 a .m. Where I am, but You know, I was thinking this morning about this is

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Tuesday. Normally I do truth script Tuesday I think I'm gonna do the true script stuff tomorrow, or at least

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I'll release it tomorrow and I want to just while this is still a discussion

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I want to weigh in on the Southern Baptist stuff because I know there's a lot of Southern Baptists in the audience and so this is an unannounced live stream, but I know many will watch it later today in the recording and I Saw yesterday was

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I guess in the afternoon and then there was a lot of analysis about it in the evening but Brent Leatherwood who is the the

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President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention. We talked about him a little bit yesterday

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He decided to do a press conference and the press conference was allegedly in representation of the parents of the victims of the

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Nashville shooting and I mentioned yesterday that when this initially happened

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Brent Leatherwood in a story in The New York Times had said that he was going to use all the resources at his disposal essentially to attorneys that is to suppress any

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Revelation of the Nashville shooters manifesto and I said that's a curious thing because this isn't something that I've seen the

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ERLC. I get involved in before as far as with other shootings and trying to suppress the

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Revealing of whatever the shooters motives were. This is the first time I can remember that happening. And of course This is a personal thing though,

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I mean his I Don't know if it's daughter or son But at least one of his children go to Covenant school where the shooting took place and so I thought well, maybe there's personal things at play here who knows but But but that's what he said.

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And of course he joined the left as at least he carried water I think for the left's narrative going right after that into we got a push for red flag laws in the state of Tennessee and Meaning we need to limit those who can

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Purchase or own firearms based upon Testimony of family that kind of thing and of course this is

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I don't want to get into the red flag issue deeply but this has been a concern of pro -second amendment and pro -gun rights organizations for a long time because They what they see is

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You know situations where you might have a divorce or something, you know family feud whatever it is and you have people that are close to you that try to take away your ability to defend yourself and Of course nothing related to the taking of hormones, which probably well,

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I shouldn't say probably but it Possibly could have contributed to this situation When you have a female biologically taking hormones because they think they're a male

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I mean that that produces some aggression when you get that testosterone in you and you're not used to it and your body's not made for it

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But you know, that's not part of it. That's not part of the equation so I went over all that yesterday and I know this is review for many of you, but Red Leatherwood decided to weigh in today.

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And so I'm gonna play for you some videos of what he's saying And this is the question for Southern Baptist. I'm gonna get into a few

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Southern Baptist issues. This is the first one Is this the kind of person you want representing you and if not,

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I would suggest In fact, maybe I'll pull it up on the podcast going to the board for the

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ERLC Contacting them. I don't know exactly if that pressure is going to do much, but it's the only shot

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I think you have other than the annual meeting and trying to get some kind of a

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Censorship people were calling for or Censoring him people were calling for his removal

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But you know, so any kind of pressure you can bring if you're still in the convention I think that's the responsible thing to do otherwise, you know, you don't want your money if you're going to this organization or Brent Leatherwood if this is the kind of thing he does and so I'll show you what what

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I'm talking about I was going to Distill this myself because I saw the video

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But Megan Basham actually did a lot of the work for me And so I'm grateful to her and people have asked me by the way, you know

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You're gonna have Megan Basham ever on the podcast and the answer is yes I will as many of you know, I don't necessarily go for high profile guests

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I am I love having high profile guests, but I'm not I don't know I don't really make a distinction as to whether they're high profile or you've never heard of them

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I I think through the way I the metric I use when I invite guests is whether or not they are

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The information they have is going to be helpful to you so especially like people who have an expertise in a certain area or their first -hand witnesses of something or especially people that you haven't heard of maybe and you should of you should have heard of them because they are being

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Ignored by other media outlets. Those are the people I tend to go for So anyway, that's an aside on how

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I think through who I have on the show But Megan's got a book coming out at some point and when that book comes out,

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I definitely will have her on the show But Megan put this out there and her reporting on this stuff has been invaluable.

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She said Brent Leatherwood head of the ERLC who lobbied for gun control after the shooting called person

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Who leaked the person who leaked the pages of the manifesto a viper? So it's just interesting that the strong words that Brent Leatherwood uses

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Imagine that these pages show the killer using the n -word and gleefully expressing hope of killing black children Would he still frame the leaker as shameful and say how dare you or would he think leaker?

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The leaker did something heroic in not allowing the authorities to cover up the fact that the killer was motivated by rank

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Anti -black racism and so if you put the shoe on the other foot she's saying you would never see this kind of act

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This this posturing and so I'm gonna play for you that first clip from it was about a 15 or 16 minutes

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Press conference, but I'll play for you. This is the first clip that Megan's got and lastly, I want to speak Directly to the person who took these images and released them

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You are a viper You're a member of the law enforcement community

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And you have released evidence that was gathered in our most vulnerable moment you have now allowed

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This woman who terrorized our family with bullet. All right, I'm gonna stop there just because it you can already see what's going on and Peter Sawyer, I just gave it as you were here in the chat yesterday

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It's funny to me showing up in the chat wanted to remind you that she was born female Yeah, that was like everyone yesterday After I corrected it people kept saying that Thank You Peter.

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Thank you Okay, so this goes on for a while, but essentially what it is is

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Leatherwood is playing he is Even the way it comes across seems disingenuous it is

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And I think being in SBC entities or working for SBC organizations I I saw this and I'm like, oh,

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I think I actually commented to someone this maybe this is mean I don't know but I said he seems like the

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SBC clone like what meaning the the way the SBC leaders act

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They act very similar to each other and in situations like this Where you saw it like it with the

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BLM stuff in 2020. You saw it with the kovat stuff You saw it with the me too stuff

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They have this that they can just whip it out this like very concerned very emotional invested response that is

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These kinds of things are what you find in the church in Altar call kind of scenarios right where the pastor is pleading and and oftentimes that's authentic but oftentimes

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It can be somewhat artificially manufactured and you see that same kind of spirit come out in these kinds of things

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And so I'm not saying it's wrong to be emotional or anything I think it's somewhat expected in a situation where you have, you know, your children were under threat, but it's

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It's overblown. It's overdone. It comes across as fake. It comes across as a politician Looking to promote a cause of some kind and in this case

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Brent, you know Leatherwood goes on and he basically asks for He thinks that whoever released this should be charged.

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He thinks it's a member of the law enforcement community somewhere and You know that he just wants them to be punished

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It's kind of weird I'll be honest it is because you don't see this coming from the ERLC on in other shootings or other

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Scenarios like but but they're very Involved in this and I when I say they I do mean they and I'll show you why

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I say they in a moment It's not just Leatherwood representing the parents and in his capacity as a parent

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There's more going on here. That is of concern for Southern Baptists So let's let's just keep going with this thread from Megan and then we'll

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I'll play for you two more clips as we go along here So Megan said further

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Leatherwood here admits the parents seeking to block the release of Audrey Hale's Writings have not seen them.

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How then can we know that we cannot learn anything? We didn't already know from them, which is one of the things he says

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The National Association of Police has called for these records to be released to aid them in Profiling potential mass shooters to prevent crimes like this in the future if Leatherwood hasn't seen

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Hale's writings How does he know they wouldn't be helpful to the National National Association of Police?

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This is actually a point that I made in a chat group yesterday when I first saw this I thought my goodness

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How in the world does Leatherwood who has he says in this presser that he's never seen and no parent has seen or read this

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Manifesto, but he's also saying things like well, I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There's more to this and And he's very positive as Megan just said that you know, this would do damage if released and you know

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How does he know all of this? What's if he hasn't read it? It's there is something odd going on here

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Either he's obviously relying on someone who's telling him all this who has read it, right?

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I suppose that's a possibility but still he seems awfully sure about it himself in his capacity as the representative of the parents or And this is what

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I said, maybe this is my cynical side. And of course, I'm gonna tell you when I am Speculating and I don't it's it's

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I think an honest speculation, but it's not a yeah You know, I don't primary sources to back it up right now or anything, but it would be the behavior

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I would expect of someone if they were trying to cover for someone and I know a number in fact

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I just got a text from someone who's not even Southern Baptist doesn't follow these things just a few minutes before I started and basically said the same thing this guy's

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Because this made national news you know this guy seems like he's covering for someone like And there were theories floating around months ago that this and they haven't been confirmed

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But that there was in addition to all of this the school at least or someone at the school knew more

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Could it maybe this could have been prevented? There was something making this the school look

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Bad in the whole situation now, I don't want to go into more details on that I don't know that's and these this was all public.

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This was all stuff that was out there I don't have it queued up for you. But But You know when he acts like this, it makes me wonder if any of those rumors were true

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I don't know, but it's odd behavior nonetheless. So Here's the second clip here.

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No To my knowledge there has been no parent that has been given any sort of access.

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No, we had parent briefings Survivor and victims briefings after March 27th

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Where you know, I think this is standard operating procedure Metro just kind of reviews

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Okay, it seems like he's at a little loss for words there but yeah, it's an honest question the reporter asked and a good question Hey, you're saying all this about this manifesto and usually we should punish the person who released it and it's not helpful and it's it causes

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It can potentially cause violence and there's more to it seem to know an awful lot about this manifesto

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But then again, you're now saying you haven't you've never seen it. You haven't read it.

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So All right. So this is let's go back to the thread here.

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Make it make some good points in this In the past in the case of anti black racism the

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URL see recognized that mass shooters motives matter and they can be motivated by racial Hatred why is this not relevant in the in this case?

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so in 2019 URL see posted listen This past week in the u .s Was hit with more tragic mass shootings and the shooter in El Paso claimed allegiance to the evil ideology of white supremacy as a motivation for his attack

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David French Jeff Pickering and Travis. I don't know if that's who so to join to discuss

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So they the URL see posted or hosted a roundtable on this. The thing that's interesting to me about this is Number one the

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El Paso shooting if you actually look at what the as I remember the El Paso shooter Said a lot of this was related to climate change.

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I mean, he wasn't someone that was strictly of the Of the right and it wasn't strictly a racial thing

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I think it was if I remember correctly, I could be wrong about this, but it had something to do with He I think he was in Texas.

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Obviously El Paso. Yeah, Texas and there was There was just a I think the immigration issue might have played into this there's just too many people coming across but either way, let's say it was totally a white supremacy thing and We we don't want any minorities in Texas or in El Paso, which you know in El Paso, I think is like overwhelmingly

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Latino or Hispanic if I'm not mistaken, but but but the URL sees reaction is to kind of highlight that to try to Draw attention to it to say that this is something worthy of discussion that we need to figure a solution out for this and When it comes to someone who's very very

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I would say in much stronger terms against white students specifically who go to Christian schools

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You don't see any of that there. It's we got to suppress this. We can't talk about it It is exactly the opposite of the way they treated that particular

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Shooting so so so Megan goes on and talks about a little bit about the

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The manifesto what it said and then she plays this clip from Brett Leatherwood Let's see here.

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She just says that Stephen Crowder did nothing wrong She doesn't believe in releasing this when no one else would here's the clip online shock jock

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Who aired these images I would challenge him and anyone who amplifies them online

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Just be a human for once quit seeking clicks retweets platform building

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Yeah, this is the it's so disgusting. It's so disgusting. Yeah, don't don't try to do the platform building that motive is bad

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Don't try to draw people to your to your audience or seek clicks, you know, the very thing

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Do you see where you are? Mr. Leatherwood? You are you are getting the attention of national media?

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Representing the parents here, but you are I don't know if they're in an ERLC building I would not be surprised but there's

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ERLC staff around him. I'll show you that in a moment at least appears that way and he is

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You know clearly Grandstanding for that. I mean this isn't just This isn't just here are some some facts here

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Here are why the parents are motivated to pursue suppression of the rest of whatever might be out there

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This is much more than that. He is giving his opinions on all of these things.

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He is Using very emotional Language to produce it almost looks like he's gonna cry and break down at some point in this

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He said in the beginning that he felt like he had been walking around The day feeling like he had been sucker -punched or something.

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I mean that the whole thing is Just over the top and it's he wants to now call

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Steven Crowder a shock jock who? Blame him for doing this. This was wrong when in previous similar circumstances the

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ERLC was the one that was signal boosting the High and highlighting the shooters motives when it was

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Against it or whether they could at least use it against Quote -unquote white supremacy, right?

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So it's it's just so rich the cut The hypocrisy is you mean it

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I don't even know if I have to comment you just play the clip See the ERLC what they did before and and it's and it's just just live through honestly live through 2018 2019 2020 and 2021 if you just live through those years and you're a

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Southern Baptist and you paid even, you know 10 % of attention to what was going on, you know that this is rank hypocrisy so Man, alright, so I think we're gonna finish this thread and Go from there

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But the the thread finishes with Megan saying and again as my colleague said Let's see pointed out suppression of shooters writings has allowed the media some politicians and gun control activists including

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Leatherwood to turn this into a gun Control issue. Yeah, one of the things I said yesterday in the podcast that concealing the motives

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Because you what happens is when there's a shooting and the motives can fit the left's playbook or their agenda

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What happens is they go after that thing? Like we got a clamp down on white supremacy So the

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DOJ has got a target quote -unquote white supremacy groups something like that. That's what they do Or anti -muslim hate or you know something along those lines

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But when they don't have a clear path to blame their political enemies

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What they'll do is they'll blame the guns and they'll say and so they still blame their political enemies It's gun advocates at that point who are responsible and Leatherwood went along with all of that The person that your

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SPC money is going to if you are in the Southern Baptist Convention The lawyers that are hired by this organization the material that's put out

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Your I can't size it enough if you're in the SPC some of your money if you're a typical

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SPC Church giving to the Cooperative program your money's going to this guy and going to support things that are the opposite of what you believe

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One more addendum she says based on a few confused comments I'm seeing out there Leatherwood is not the father of a victim

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Most of the parents in this group are not parents of victims They are a hundred parents of students who attend Covenant and at least one member family of a victim

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Reggie Hill, bro Yeah, I guess that's important to point out that he's not he's acting like he is like his child you would think his child died in this or something and Maybe a friend of the child did

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I don't know. I mean, it's it's a tough situation for sure I mean, I've just experienced some loss in my own life and I get that but But he his his children are with him.

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They did not perish in this When this first happened, I remember thinking that you know if Covenant is like the typical

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Middle -class Christian schools that or you know seminaries is what

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I was spending a lot of time on but but I but I knew because I was hearing the stories from people who attended private

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Christian schools that the same narratives were happening there Yeah, I think it was ACSI and they had

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Walter Strickland doing this Diversity training stuff and I mean they were bringing in the same stuff that I was seeing in seminary

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Into these schools and I thought you know I wonder if the people, you know that are at this school that the parents of the children are in that group a lot of them that they are kind of in this

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You know kind of neo -conservative ish but kind of like semi woke social justice

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II like a group of Southern Baptists, but also, you know, just broadly evangelicals who were

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Going down this path taking this narrative and and I I wondered this was all speculation again

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I'm telling you when I'm speculating so so you don't have to believe me but I wondered whether or not that factored into the reaction because the reaction has been the

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The parents and it's not all the parents but enough of the parents have been active against Guns and trying to support red flag laws and those kinds of things lobbying for it

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But I just thought something's weird about this, you know, why in the world are they going after that? I mean, it's not you would think it would be

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Like we need tighter security here. We actually need more guns We need the teachers need to be armed or we need some way of protecting ourselves against people who don't like us who are against us because of our

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Christian beliefs or in this case apparently because there's White people here, you know that that's the kind of thing

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That I that I would expect from someone who is more conservative But I would totally expect what you're seeing now from those who have been influenced by social justice thinking

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In the chat if you have any questions, feel free to comment before we switch gears and start talking about this issue

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Well this this apology from Bart Barber for Joining an amicus brief on the abuse stuff

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So someone Someone is upset at me. I guess I'll put it out there John puts out three pages from the sexual deviant

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Crowder Doesn't wait for context doesn't mention the shooters first target was a mall which blows up the message

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Crowder was trying to push Yeah, I mean if you want to put more information in the comments

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I'd be curious to know what you how your thoughts connect because I don't see any connection there.

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I mean What you saw was Hatred for white people hatred for white people white white kids who attend

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Christian schools who might be fairly affluent It doesn't mean that there couldn't be hate for other groups as well

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But at least in this particular shooting in this case, there was specific hate for a specific group

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And that's the only point I've ever made and I think that was the point Stephen Crowder was making I didn't listen to his whole episode, but I listened to probably about 25 minutes of it.

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And that's all I heard him saying so So, sorry Leia Laughlin If you yeah, if you could explain to me what you mean by that,

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I'd be all ears. But yeah, I don't see that Checked off Asks would

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Pharisee be an apt description straining at a gnat ignoring the camel yet perhaps I I mean

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I've said that for a long Time I think a lot of these social justice advocates in the Southern Baptist Convention Act like Pharisees that the things that they want to be concerned about are things that if they even are problems are

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Minor compared to much bigger problems and they will ignore much bigger things and it usually parallels

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You know, the left is concerned about this. So we're concerned and You know, the right is more concerned about this.

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So we're not concerned Okay, so let's move on then to the next thing here

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I Think that was it for Megan. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was your last tweet in that particular

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Thread. So here's Oh before we leave the issue. I forgot about this So I was gonna show you this if you if you go to Sean Graham is the one who posted this

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These are two screenshots from the now that this this press conference with Leatherwood We I don't know exactly where it was.

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I'm wondering if it was in a Southern Baptist building I don't know though. It may not have been it but when the can't the cameras kind of whoever was running the camera

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Looked around the room briefly before ending the conference the press conference and you saw

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And it's a little fuzzy, but you saw this gentleman and you saw this particular lady here and Sean Graham pointed out something.

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This was pretty early on. He picked it up I was actually impressed that he picked this up But if you look at the pictures

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Elizabeth Bristow Who's the press secretary for the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention?

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Looks an awful lot like the person in this photo. I mean I'm pretty sure it's the same person and then if you scroll down on the

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ERLC staff page, you'll come to This gentleman Alex Ward Alex Ward looks an awful lot like the gentleman in this picture now.

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I don't think we're seeing everyone who is there, but you're seeing There's enough there to make you scratch your head and say why in the world are the

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ERLC Resources like the press secretary and the research associate and project manager.

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Why are they there? What's the purpose of them being there? And why does it look like they're kind of they're running things or organizing?

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Whatever this is This is not just a parents of the victims of the shooting or parents of friends of the victims of the shooting parents

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Who had kids that went to the school? This is more than that. This is a Southern Baptist Activity of some kind they're involved in this the

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Southern Baptist Convention is involved in the message that Leatherwood put out there And that's the thing that I think should concern

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Southern Baptists Why in the world are I mean did is this something you want to be involved in?

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Well, you're paying for it. If you're in the Southern Baptist Convention that your money's going to this kind of thing So I wanted to show you that now

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Let's move on. Let's talk about some other stuff we got

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Now Steven Crowder, okay, I forgot about this too Steven Crowder actually We're I'll show you this.

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All right last thing last thing before we I promise last thing before we move on so Steven Crowder put this out there and And by the way,

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Steven Crowder, I don't listen to Steven Crowder He's a comedian. I'm sure he probably says some off -color things.

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So I'm not defending any of those things he just happened to be the guy who had the guts to publish this and He posted a screenshot from an

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Emily Cotrain New York Times journalist My name is

27:47

Emily Cochrane and I'm a reporter at the New York Times. I'm working on a story I'm mr Crowder's publication of the covenant writings and just left a press conference where one parent

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Brent Leatherwood Was critical of the decision to publish those photos He described it as chasing clicks at one point and said that proceeds from the video

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Should go to the families of the six victims and or the school. I watched the video earlier this morning We'll incorporate some of that but also wanted to make sure mr

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Crowder didn't have any additional comment in response to the pushback you know, where was Brent Leatherwood on all of the other shootings that the

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URLC used as evidence of white supremacy or racial, you know white nationalism or something along those lines nativism and they

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They never I never I don't recall any of this, you know asking Well all the major media that all that capitalizes on this including us.

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We're donating to the the victims Did they ever do that? Did the URLC ever donate any of theirs?

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I mean what about you know, it should cooperative program money be given to victims when the URLC does panel discussions discussing the white supremacy of the shooting

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Perpetrator and that kind of thing. No, of course not. They're they're totally rank hypocrisy, but this just shows you the

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What the URLC who the URLC is being used by? The URLC your

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Southern Baptist Convention dollars are going to an entity that the New York Times is using and weaponizing against someone who like Steven Crowder who happened to release this manifesto and Shine a light on the motives of this particular shooter at least at least some of the motives if not all so this is

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Fascinating to me For those in the SBC you see this but for those outside this can be

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I think confusing what in the world is going on Well, I mean and and I think if you're not thinking too clearly or carefully about it

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You will get sucked into the emotional response. You're like, of course Yes, this is so insensitive the victims that they're reliving that moment of pain again that kind of thing

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All right. Well, let's now move on. We are truly moving on at this point to the next issue.

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I don't see any more relevant Comments or questions about it, but you can always leave a comment or question in the chat

30:05

If you are on YouTube or Facebook, I will see it Don't forget to like I never say this, but I I need to more don't forget to like on YouTube and on Facebook share around if you feel that this is good information, especially for your fellow

30:22

Southern Baptists and Christians of all kinds out there and And if you like what you're hearing

30:29

Feel free to support on patreon. By the way, I should say this as I'm in the mode of my own self -promotion here

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Which I am shameless about by the way, I think that's perfectly acceptable and fine The on Thursday evening on at 8 o 'clock p .m.

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Thursday evening 8 o 'clock p .m This week. I'm going to be finishing our discussion with time and Klein and about Now I'm trying to remember what we were talking about Classical liberalism.

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That's right classical liberalism but not not just classical liberalism also modern liberalism and Any questions we've had four part series on this so Time and Klein's gonna join me also

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forward slash world of you conversation world of you conversation You can join as little as five bucks a month and and you can be part of the discussion this

32:05

Thursday night. Okay? Moving on. Let's talk about this amicus brief that caused quite a stir this is a

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Story from Baptist Global News Baptist News Global very I would say left -wing outlets I think they're even funded by a left -wing organization

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But they I didn't see other stories out there about this particular issue I'm familiar somewhat with what's going on, but I did want to read for you a new story about it

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This is a headline that says SBC executive committee members surprised to learn they filed an amicus brief against a sexual abuse survivor in Kentucky This was more of a controversy two weeks ago last week, but it's ongoing.

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So When the Louisville Courier -Journal reported yesterday that the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary lifeway

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Christian resources in the Southern Baptist Convention executive committee had submitted an amicus brief Arguing against the rights of a sexual abuse survivor

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That was the first members of the executive committee ever heard of it And some of them are furious as our advocates for abuse survivors who have been working for years

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To get something done in the nation's largest Protestant denomination. This is deplorable Said Chris Davis the

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SBC is lining its voice against a survivor in a case in which it is not named This is legal cruelty.

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All right, so so the typical things you'd expect Adam Wyatt said we had

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Mississippi Baptist pastor. We had no working knowledge of this as a board poor excuse I know but it's true and a separate tweet.

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He said I continue to grow very tired of seeking people Letting people speak on my behalf without ever being consulted.

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Okay So it just as a lineup of quotes from Southern Baptists Who are very angry that this took place and this is against abusers

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Jacob Dellen Hollander a Kentucky pastor whose wife has been an outspoken advocate against sexual abuse tweeted when the

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SBC and The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary raised their voice against a victim in the case that doesn't involve them because of potential lawsuits

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They are acting on a selfish consequentialist ethic You notice this is the same kind of thing Leatherwood did right it's immediately questioning

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The motives and it's I don't have a problem with reasonable You know coming to conclusions about why someone might be motivated by something publicly

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But in the capacity, I guess the divide I see is like if you're in an organization and your capacity is like you're making you're doing a press conference

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You're interviewed by the media or you're you're speaking as a representative of the organization

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I mean, it's okay to have your own thoughts on what might motivate something but what I find happening a lot in the

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SBC circles is they went when when they're in a corner or when

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When they have political opponents that they want to squelch somehow they will often do this thing where They they make it all about that person

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It's actually it's a tactic that works so often you you question the integrity of the person who's bringing the information or who made the decision and you don't actually talk about the issues and In this case,

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I mean, it's it's a smear. It's a complete, you know, they're selfish consequentialist I mean right and wrong is determined by its effect on us.

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So I mean it's so much beyond, you know It's like they can't even conceive of maybe there was a legitimate decision to join this to make this amicus brief

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Maybe there was other there was something legitimate here. No, there's no even it's got to be like some anti -christian consequentialist ethic that's you know, pervasive and must

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It's gonna color everything that person does apparently. I mean, it's a it's a somewhat of an ad hominem They wouldn't pass their own ethics class.

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He says gross All right. So there's so much of this. I'm not gonna go but the case is

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It relates to claims by Samantha Killary who alleges her adoptive father a

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Louisville police officer sexually abused her throughout her childhood She also sued two other police officers in the department for their alleged roles and knowing about the abuse and not reporting it and I think the other two were her grandpa and her the lover of her father who were both police as well a

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Jefferson County Circuit Court judged throughout the case because of the time of the alleged abuse the state's statute limitations for reporting abuse claims

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Was only five years which had elapsed but in 2017 the state legislature doubled the time in which victims could sue and in 2021 it said claims could be brought against non -perpetrators such as police

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Government units or religious organizations that violated their duties to children the Kentucky Court of Appeals reinstated

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Killary suit and now the state Supreme Court must decide whether the legislature's expansions of the statute limitations and the reach of child abuse claims should be applied

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Rectoactively to cases of alleged abuse that happened before the law changed Although the

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SBC Lifeway and Executive Committee are not named in this case. The outcome could have significant relevance to them

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So and that's because of the Hannah Kate Williams lawsuit against them. Now, here's here's the thing about this this is a confirmed a

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Confirmed victim. This is someone who actually already went to court against her father

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One wanted to though take things further, but the statute of limitations Was already expired, but then this laws passed and now she would like to continue that fight but can the question really seems to be whether or not that statute of that rule made in 2017 should apply to organizations or not for for things that happened before That law was made so the reason the

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SBC would be interested in this is because in the situation with Hannah Kate Williams where she's

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Saying she wants to sue the organization The Southern Baptists for what took place in local settings

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I mean, there's actually more than one issue here because one of the issues is about local church autonomy but but another issue is statute of limitations and as I understand it and Whether or not organizations

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Can be sued when things beyond the statute of limitations or Regarding things that happened before this 2017 law was passed.

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So that's those are the issues now The I will just say this there's a suspicion out there too

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That this is the reason for this is the SBC likely has a relationship with an insurance company and The insurance company will likely not defend them if they don't take every available

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They don't take the advice of the company and take every available legal action at their disposal and so it would benefit

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Not just the Southern Baptist Convention, but also the insurance company Being paid by the

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Southern Baptist Convention if that and again, this is this is somewhat speculative But I think that it's it makes sense of the situation more than other explanations and it and there have been similar situations like this where It would benefit the insurance company to be able to see a case like this like the

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Killary case be thrown out for the SBC as a matter of Making sure the

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SBC isn't in trouble for things that happened beyond the statute of limitations or could have happened

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So that that seems to be the issue and I'm that may be where the pressure is coming from Now this has opened up a whole discussion about statute of limitations and whether or not we

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I mean I don't have them all queued up But there were some really out there posts by SBC insiders saying basically statute of limitations was immoral that kind of thing

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Which is just kind of bonkers, I mean that's of course this has developed over time this is in a system of This is part of our legal tradition

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But there's good reasons for having statute of limitations Anyone remember the

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Kavanaugh hearings, right? When you can go back 20 30 years

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When you can I mean and I'm not trying to make an argument as to when the statute of limitations should kick in for various crimes, but When you can go back to a certain point when memories are fuzzy when evidence is is not around anymore.

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It's been destroyed When and you can just start, you know making accusations when someone let's say enters the political fray or something like that Then you destroy them you destroy their reputation and it may not even be something that's true

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And one of the principles you do find in scripture Over and over again is that justice should be swift.

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That's the whole mosaic law. Really justice is swift. It doesn't take time It's not like our system where you're in court for years

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Uh, it is a a very fast thing that happens were there witnesses there aren't okay.

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Well Then this is thrown out. Uh, oh there were okay. Well two or three it's it's corroborated

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Uh, all right. Well, that's you know, there's a penalty for this so Um, that's what statute of limitations are supposed to encourage is justice must be swift and um

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Anyway, but you had reactions like this, uh, david moral highlighted it. Um, rachel denhollander

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Uh, she posted this from a guy named sean dennis sean dennis says as an attorney licensed to practice law in the commonwealth of kentucky

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I want to say this to southern baptists pastors You do not need to become an expert on the intricacies

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Uh of laws on statutes of limitations you have the gospel Huh interesting you have the gospel which was declared to give sight to the blind and set captives free

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The gospel repairs the broken and makes people whole in a world where much is complicated This is simple making it seem complex is for scribes and pharisees.

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You have a better teacher. So there you go scribes and pharisees if you get hung up on statute of limitations because the gospel apparently uh is

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If you believe the gospel is such a weaponization of the gospel for political purposes um

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Then you're going to statute of limitations shouldn't matter uh because the gospel Gives sight to the blind and sets the captives free.

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So beyond the statute of limitations the That's what the gospel does um obviously complete misapplication of the gospel and A weaponization.

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I mean, this is just a it's a false gospel at that point if you're if if you think that this Somehow applies to statutes of limitations and certain legal principles

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And rachel den hollander who's been an attorney for uh representing well, it's hard to know who she represents sometimes but she's been representing victims of the sbc, but also consulting with Uh the sbc

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She says beautiful simple post by an attorney in kentucky who also happens to be southern baptist

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And david moral says the gospel giving sight to the blind is not about magically giving pastors legal expertise That's what lawyers are for any lawyer giving advice to this to a client would be committing malpractice rod martin

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Posted this is a statement from al moeller al moeller said as is often the case in questions of law significant constitutional legal questions arise and require

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Arguments to make uh be made before the courts in such cases. We must refer to legal counsel

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We respect the rule of law and must work through the process with legal presentation representation who must speak for us in this case

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And rod martin says this is odd This is not what al moeller said when 11 out of 11 lawyers told the executive committee of the southern baptist

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They could not lawfully waive attorney client privilege Back then he told executive committee members. They were in sin if they didn't ignore the lawyers and then he refused to waive privilege at the southern baptist theological seminary moeller is

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I know many of you don't understand this or might disagree with this I've been making this point for years and it just gets proven over and over and over again moeller

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And i've seen this after years of watching the guy in the positions. He takes he is such a political animal as far as Like and I don't mean animal in a derogatory.

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I mean, I mean, I I just mean that he is motivated by politics and He will shift if if it benefits him politically or not so easily

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And and you you see it with this, I mean it's we got to uh pay attention to legal counsel We just have to follow it

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And it's like well What about when you you know the executive committee made such a dumb move that you weren't even?

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Willing to make with your own entity the southern baptist theological seminary then it was sinful then it was bad

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You can't listen to the lawyers on this. So Uh, so he points that out. I felt I figured that was worthy of pointing out and then bart barber who is the president of the southern baptist convention

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Made a statement on october 30th Regarding the convention's amicus brief. I don't want to read this whole thing for you

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Um, he takes the blame he say he approved of it But he also says that he had this window Like and he forgot that he had done this basically that he had been asked to join the brief

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And it was a stressful week and he had all these meetings And he had a window of like three hours that he had to make the decision

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As to whether the southern baptist convention was going to join this brief Which does further make me wonder whether there was some kind of a pressure coming from like an insurance company or something

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But um, he doesn't recall his exact thoughts He which was just by the way, which is one of the reasons for statute of limitations, right?

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he's going back to last year and he can't even recall his own thoughts regarding the brief, but um, but but he's he's apologizing, uh to everyone and and just you know, he just It is so sorry that he approved of this now.

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I don't know how he's able to do that to be quite honest with you as the president of the Denomination how he can just make a decision for the whole denomination and say we're going to join this

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Uh this amicus brief. I don't know. I'm i'm that doesn't seem right something seems weird about that, but maybe maybe that's in bounds

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Uh, but it's it's certainly something i've never heard of before happening in the sbc

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And um, all right, so that's that issue any questions or comments on that I am curious to see them and we will uh, then move on to the final issue for the southern baptist in this particular podcast um

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Someone said okay. Okay. This is uh, leah leah laughlin Uh, I asked her earlier about why she put in the comments

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You know that I I guess I was being inaccurate with going with stephen crowder's narrative Uh, she said the shooter targeted a mall first, but it had too much security.

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She also shot a black man Okay, I mean I knew that I reported on that when it first happened.

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Um I don't know. I it's so irrelevant though. I mean You can be targeting a school with primarily

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White looking kids and want to kill them and if there's a teacher or I think it was if i'm not mistaken

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I think it was a teacher Uh that stands in your way, of course, you're going to shoot the threat

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You're going and and you're I don't know you're not going to make the distinction. You're on a mass killing spree So it's totally irrelevant.

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Um it's The I would trust the words that the shooter made right before the shooting

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Uh, and then of course targeting a mall first, but it had too much security. I mean, okay I don't know what uh the

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Statement she made before shooting at the school was specifically She wants to take out these kids who go to christian private schools and with daddy's money in Nice sports cars.

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I mean that was she was specific On who she wanted to target so whether or not there was a mall that had too much security

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I mean if anything, I guess that That would tell you that maybe having school security would have made a difference doesn't it?

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In fact in her timeline She says check security Uh, and there wasn't security. So brent leatherwood's solution is red flag logs, right?

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Should be more security at the school All right, um Yeah, and people are debating that in the chat.

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So, uh seems let's see Where can I find the proof about al moeller?

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Uh Well, I have done several videos on it I've also there's a little section in my book christianity and social justice religions in conflict

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You can get it on amazon, but you can also get it At my website johnharrispodcast .com and I have a whole section on al moeller in there

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And you can find that um And someone says enemies within the church film There is some some in enemies within the church as well.

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I think I go into more detail in the book Uh, and in some of my videos, I think what happened to al moeller is one of the videos

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I did a few videos on al moeller, but you can go to just type in on on youtube conversations that matter al moeller

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You'll come up with a bunch of stuff okay, um Let us then go to the final.

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We don't have much time left The final issue here, uh, and this is again baptist news global reported on it, but this is not where I first heard about this

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Uh, the coalition of baptist leaders will file amicus briefs challenging nam's view of first amendment bobby gilstrap hosted randy

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That's good. They say randy travis. No randy adams On his podcast recently and they talked about this

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But basically what's happening is i'm just going to summarize it for you will mccraney who's been on the podcast before uh is

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Has a battle. He's an ongoing battle the u .s. Supreme court level Against the north american mission board because of kevin easel the president there essentially preventing him from getting a job after leaving

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I believe it was the maryland delaware Convention which or not convention, but I don't remember what they called but the mary maryland delaware association of baptists and uh, will mccraney, you know

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He that that particular association is not At the time it certainly was not part of the sbc there was relationships and connections, but it's a separate entity

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Uh, it is is not under the umbrella. They can do their own thing But you have kevin easel then um wanting to punish him

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I guess I don't I don't know exactly the motives of kevin easel, but at least trying to prevent him from getting uh jobs uh,

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I don't know if it was teaching or or what but Church planning because I think that's his expertise and um

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And so he's he's in this battle about you know, can the sbc? can they uh defame someone who is not even

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Uh doesn't work for them Does I mean this is this is it's a defamation lawsuit as I understand it

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So that's a very short summary. You can go check out the videos that i've done with mccraney if you want to know more Randy adams who by the way randy

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I have so much respect for him. I think honestly, I think that was it was a 20 20 21

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When randy adams last ran for president of the convention, I think that was like the turning point I think that was the high watermark for conservatives being able to do anything about the drift in the sbc

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And I I still think randy adams was the guy that um, he wanted to go

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I remember It I remember thinking like because I was going after the social justice stuff so much and randy adams wanted to make corruption the main issue and I have

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He kind of convinced me that was the main issue and the two ran together But now i'm seeing very clearly.

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Oh, it is corruption. That is the main thing that the sbc has a problem with and anyway um,

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I I got to interview him at the time. I actually went out to his uh, I visited him as at his office in washington and uh and and so he um

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Is filing an amicus brief? So he's he's trying to inform the supreme court

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That what the north american mission board and I guess I think the erl c2 But at least the north american mission board are telling them about baptist polity is inaccurate because the case nam wants to make is well

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We are part of the southern baptist convention and we're all part of the southern baptist convention

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And it's one it's one enchilada. Essentially. It's a it's like a top -down organization uh, and it's not

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We have the right to um Give advice on Hiring practices for a former employee or that kind of thing

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And so their whole argument hinges on baptist polity is not really about autonomous churches

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It's about this this organization that controls and that's totally backwards and randy adams is filing his amicus brief saying look

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That's not what southern baptist polity is. That's not how we organize ourselves McCraney contends that the so -called ecclesial exemption doctrine

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Uh, which so so this is a first amendment issue to the north american mission board. It's freedom

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They have the freedom to do this But mccraney contends that the so -called ecclesial exemption doctrine does not apply in this case because he was not an employee of nam

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And therefore, uh, this is not about nam's internal personnel policies So they're not shielded because of the first amendment adams said

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Uh that many baptist pastors associated leaders and convention leaders have already said they want their name on the brief

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That will be filed on tuesday november 7th. So I guess we are late for that I don't know.

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You can still go to randyadams .org See if you can contact him if you want your name if you're a southern baptist And you have any official position in the organization

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Uh, I think even if you're a pastor contact him and say I want to be part of this amicus brief Um by 4 p .m.

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Well, may I you may have missed the deadline. I'm not sure um, so Yeah, i'm not going to talk any more about that I just wanted to put it out there in case there was still a window of opportunity to join that but this has been an ongoing thing with the north american mission board, so Uh, that is the last issue.

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I want to talk about concerning southern baptists today um and uh christian mama posted first corinthians 6

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Verse 7 to have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not be rather defrauded but you yourselves wrong and defraud even your own brothers

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Uh, then then says any christian organization that hires unbelievers lawyers is out of line. They need to stop it um

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I I actually thought when I first saw this first this was like against uh, will mccraney Because he's taking them to court

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The thing is about this there's a few things because I I have thought about this a bit not just with will mccraney

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But just in general Uh, there was an issue I remember at liberty university a few years ago where the communications director was um

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Was essentially fired and there was a question about you know, what if you if you go if you sue liberty university

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I mean, it's a christian institution. Are you violating first corinthians 6? And I think there's a couple ways you can come down on this one is if all other uh,

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First of all, it's not a black and white. You can never sue a christian ever in any circumstance

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Um, but it is a defeat for you uh why You know, why not rather be defrauded?

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Of course, there's a very strong question to ask why not just let it go you know and I think there there's a reason to sometimes take someone to court even if it's a christian or a christian organization when all other resources have

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Been exhausted and when you're doing it not for yourself but for others who are potentially going to be hurt and the other thing

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I'll say is Just because it's a christian organization quote unquote doesn't mean it's a christian individual

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The first corinthians 6 is talking about what it's talking about christian individuals Talking about now and I think you could say that a culmination of individuals in organization or a church.

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Yeah, but uh, You know, it may apply but some of these organizations have not been behaving very christian and they are composed i'm just going to say it of people pulling the strings at the top levels who are not likely christians

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Um, what do you do with that when christianity today? We'll pick an easier one to think through christianity today

56:04

I mean, is that a christian magazine? I guess it is but I guess it's not Megan bashram just did a whole expose on them for you know

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The the democrat how they give money to democrats the staff there, but if you just look at their content it is

56:19

It is not like an orthodox christian organization. It's clear that it's a it's basically a political front

56:25

For the left to try to influence evangelicals. That's what I see it as and It's been taken over by people who are you know pro

56:33

There there are writers there who seem to be Uh, okay with abortion, uh, okay with um, well at the very least okay with the the sexual

56:42

Uh deviancies and that kind of thing and I mean at what point do you say? Well, I can't take any legal action because they're a christian organization, right?

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So not a discussion. We were maybe planning on having but uh Christian mama, uh responded said there's no reason to take anyone to court

56:58

Jesus suffered death penalty at caesar's hands. How much more are we to suffer at the hands of false prophet? Okay Well, that is that is a interesting position

57:05

I don't do not take that position I do think there's reasons to Use the legal remedies we have in fact

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I think paul used his roman citizenship as a legal remedy to try to Stave off the kind of suffering that he would incur had he not said he was a roman citizen

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So there are certainly reasons to do that. Even the mosaic law makes provisions uh for uh

57:26

Taking someone to um, you know the equivalent of court for a wrongdoing

57:31

So so this is something that has been part of our legal tradition for a long time i'm not going to say our legal

57:37

System here is perfect because it's not but uh, anyway, that that's my take on it so Um, we have been going almost an hour.

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I'm going to land the plane now true script Tuesday is going to be on wednesday I think we're just going to do it tomorrow, but I appreciate everyone's time and attention and this is for southern baptist

57:53

So I I hope this helps you think through Questions of leaving staying what to do

57:59

If you go to the erlc website, you can I believe find the in fact, I don't know if it's on the website

58:04

I'll just say the names here in closing because I know I screenshotted someone had posted the uh, the board for the erlc

58:12

So if you go, uh to I don't know what website this is. Um But if uh

58:19

This is the board for the ethics and religious liberty commission. I really wish I had this queued up. I didn't think about it though uh

58:28

So you have Let's see. You have a number of people here whose terms are expiring.

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I'll just read off some names uh Turn i'll go to the term expiring in 2024 because I know that they're still there anthony cox um sherry, uh priveto

58:49

Michael guyer laurie bova alan gale preston white Uh joseph godfrey todd howard ab vines jonathan ferrari amy petway

59:03

Uh, jimmy patterson's patterson, uh, jannie england tony, uh beam scott fossey greg greer jamie masso matthew morgan paul you christine hoover kelly hancock jonathan whitehead david prince and kevin smith

59:26

Um, kevin smith, I recognize that guy's kind of woke. Uh, jonathan whitehead, uh, actually

59:31

I think is a lawyer Who's been very helpful on these things? uh, in fact, I was listening to part of a podcast he did with american reformer on the issue of uh, this uh, the

59:42

Killery case and it was really good. Um, but that's the ethics and religious liberty commission.

59:48

Uh, Board so Um, i'm i'm not sure exactly i'll try i'll try to look for it

59:55

And if I can i'll try to post it on a comment on youtube so people know where to go But those are people you can contact if you have a problem with what brett leatherwood is doing