Apologia Radio | False Accusations, Courts, and More

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00:00

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

00:07

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite? We're being delusional. Yeah, I love you,

00:13

Jeff. Delusional? Yeah. Delusional is OK in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional.

00:18

You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly OK. It doesn't really hurt.

00:25

She hung up on me. What? What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

00:37

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

00:44

Going to all the world to make disciples, not going to the world to make buddies, not to make brosives, don't go in the world to make homies, disciples.

00:53

I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

00:58

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed.

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Only on the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses shall a charge be established.

01:36

What's up, y 'all? Welcome back to another episode of Apology, a radio coming at you guys from a very wet Phoenix, Arizona.

01:44

Lots of flooding. I don't think we did a good job when we set up the infrastructure of this city on dealing with the flooding issues.

01:50

Certainly the older areas. The newer areas are OK, but. Decent. Yes, decent. So coming at you guys from Phoenix, Arizona.

01:56

We've had a time. I was coming back from Kauai for a mission for our church plan out there, and I saw a news report that said that we were going to get all the rain from like a hurricane or something that was coming to the

02:06

Pacific. It was going to go all the way up to Las Vegas. So I was kind of excited about that. I love the rain.

02:12

Yeah, I love it when it rains here in Arizona. When it rains, it really rains here in Arizona. Man, does it ever rain? And surprising, actually, the desert.

02:20

Yeah, it just doesn't last long. We get some serious rain and floods and it's wild. I had actually run across town last night to get my wife and my son, who

02:27

I apparently thought he was going to die in a flood. He had to pull the car over. It couldn't get out of the water. And I guess he thought he was like, dude, you got to come save us, dad.

02:36

Oh, my God. Come save us. Is that sage? I think no. My 10 year old. I actually,

02:42

I'm Jeff the Ninja. That's Luke the Bear. That's Joy the Girl. Apology Radio, Apology Studios dot com. That's where you go to get more.

02:48

I think that Stellar, my 10 year old, I think he was legitimately traumatized.

02:53

I, I honestly think that he has PTSD because the nuclear attack, you know, when we were in Kauai, we were in Kauai when the ballistic missile warning coming in came into our phones, not from the president.

03:07

That's right. He said, yeah, he said, this is not a test. You know, ballistic missile inbound to Hawaii.

03:14

This is not a test. So he was there when that happened. And every time now that that stupid thing goes off my phone.

03:21

I'm telling you, Stellar, he melts. Yeah. And he's like, I was with him one time. Yeah. And something

03:28

I don't know what I don't know what it was. A storm or Amber alert or something. But he like, as soon as he heard that tone, he just, like, launched into the story about the missile.

03:40

And he started grabbing mattresses and loaves of bread. Yeah. We were throwing the mattresses on everyone. I mean, that's scary for a kid.

03:45

Yeah. I'm sure that sticks fresh in your mind. My kids know my kids a little bit, too. They're like, what is that? Oh, yeah.

03:51

But it really messed him up. Well, it's easy to be like, oh, well, nothing happened. But you guys actually thought something was going to happen.

03:58

I was throwing mattresses and blankets and pillows all over everyone throwing food in and running around.

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He's seriously traumatized. I mean, I was washing my beard, but yeah, he was in the shower just taking his time.

04:10

I'm going out. My beard is going to look. I'm going to look good and clean going out in style. That's right. Is that why you're wearing your rain jacket, though?

04:17

Because all the rain is all the rain. Yeah, it's funny. I come in today. It's it rain. So it's 84 degrees today.

04:23

And like half the people in the studio are wearing sweaters and jackets. I know you are. But like, I'm like,

04:28

Sage has on like a Mr. Rogers cardigan. Cardigan. I'm like, dude, it's 84 degrees outside.

04:35

So that's cold. What are you talking about? That's the thing about Arizona, right? Is we live in a desert. So the moment we get just a hint of like relief in the weather and rain or it's just a hint when it drops down to like 85 in Arizona.

04:47

We're like, oh, winter's coming. Like, you know, that's I mean, I put a shirt on. So I was like, yeah, yeah.

04:53

Also, I'm just going to say that we keep the studio at like 68.

04:58

We do. This is true. We do give it awfully cold in here. Yeah. So it might be 84 outside.

05:04

Yeah. But it's like 60 in here. Yeah. So welcome back to another episode of Apology Radio. We have an important episode we're going to do today.

05:11

We're going to talk today about standards of justice. So God's standards of justice. We're going to talk about the

05:17

Kavanaugh issue. Dr. Christine Ford. We're going to talk about as Christians, how should we approach this?

05:23

Because of course, many of us have been inundated in our feeds and across our with all the discussions, the videos from the hearing and all the news reports, everything, you know, just,

05:34

I mean, just a wide spectrum of opinions. And so we think it's important for us to actually face this issue down like Christians and not sort of be arbitrary in our thinking about it or just apply our own standards, our own thoughts like the world is doing.

05:49

We think that we should actually go to the word of God and ask the question, what does God say in terms of how we're supposed to respond to accusations?

05:56

What are the rights of the person who's being accused? What's the rights of the victim? So we wanted to do a show today, actually talking about the law of God in reference to the

06:05

Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford hearing and situation. So that's what we're going to do today. I want to encourage everybody to go to ApologiaStudios .com.

06:13

You can get over, I think over 300 radio and podcast episodes right now. Go there. I would encourage you to subscribe to us on YouTube, Apologia Radio.

06:22

I want to just encourage you to look at it because over all the years we've done Apologia Radio, we've had some of the best theologians, scholars, scientists on the radio program dealing with a host of different issues.

06:32

We think that you'll find something there that will really bless you. So go there, subscribe on iTunes, Apologia Radio. Also want to encourage you to pray for us for End Abortion Now.

06:40

End Abortion Now, God is tremendously blessing. Right now we have close to 300 churches across the United States that are going out and saving children on a daily basis, preaching the gospel outside the abortion mills.

06:51

And we've been given a tremendous gift by God, an honor to go to Australia and New Zealand in the month of November to actually encourage churches out there and equip churches out there to do the same kind of work that we're doing in the

07:04

U .S. right now. So it's a tremendous privilege and opportunity for us to go do that. I want to say thank you to everybody that actually has given to End Abortion Now over the last two years.

07:13

We didn't anticipate having this ministry. God gave it to us and he's been blessing it in tremendous ways beyond our own capabilities and our own comprehension.

07:22

And so I want to thank you all for being a part of it with us. This is, of course, Apologia Studios and the ministry here, but it doesn't take place without you.

07:30

And so I want to thank you for all of your participation, whether it's prayerful, whether it's sharing the content or whether it was giving financially.

07:36

You made all this possible. You're a part of this ministry with us. So thank you for that. You can't spell Apologia Studios without you.

07:43

That's right. It's true. That is true. Yes, that's right. So we are...

07:50

I checked. That's right. So we have a lot to talk about today. We're going to try to condense the episode down today, not to do a two hour long episode, but a shorter episode.

07:59

But before we get into the topic for today and get into the word of God and talk about all these things, let's hand it over to Joy.

08:06

Yeah, I have a really interesting piece of news to bring to you today.

08:12

It's a little bit older, so maybe you guys have heard about it. But it's within the past few weeks. So did you guys hear about Domino's tattoos in Russia?

08:22

I did hear. Oh, no. No. So in Russia, Domino's created this promotion where anyone could get a visible tattoo of the logo.

08:34

Stop. It could be however you want. I didn't know it was Russia. I thought it was here. No, it was Russia. If it was here, I would have done it by now.

08:39

And so if you did that, you could get 100 pizzas a year for 100 years for free.

08:47

What? I would have done it by now if it was the States. This sounds so Russia. It sounds so Russia.

08:53

Does it come with vodka? What is pizza like in Russia? It's probably different.

09:01

I would imagine maybe it's a little different. Are they big on fish in Russia? They're probably big on fish.

09:06

Everybody in the States. Even in the UK, the food is all a little different. Even like fast food and stuff.

09:12

Instead of marinara, it's just a Russian vodka poured over that. Yes. Yeah. Vodka sauce.

09:17

There you go. Anyway, so basically they had people flooded to get this.

09:27

So people actually bought. People did it. It's all over Instagram. People went and got a tattoo of the

09:36

Domino's logo. A lot of people were like a little bit creative with it and had like a pizza slice and all this stuff. Anyway.

09:41

I would have got the Noid. The what? Remember the Noid? Yeah, the Noid. From the 80s. Remember that goofy like.

09:47

Avoid the Noid. Character they had. And it was a character that ears. He's a little creature that made your food cold.

09:53

You don't remember the Noid? No. How do I not remember this? I don't know. I had a little toy Noid. It was

09:59

Domino's. Domino's said, avoid the Noid. Order through Domino's because your pizza will get there soon and it won't be cold.

10:07

Oh, okay. The Noid was like a little. I don't remember the creature, but I remember the saying. Yes. Okay. So anyway, so many people did this that Russian Domino's couldn't handle it.

10:17

But they made a promise. So they amended their statement. Oh, post tattoo.

10:23

Yes. So they said that they're sticking to 350 lucky free pizza winners.

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So if you got the tattoo, you are now eligible to be one of 350 people.

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This was not well thought out. No, not at all. Some drunk Russian manager was like, this will be a good idea.

10:43

People. So many people got this. Did Putin get it? I don't know if it's just. I don't know if it's like if they're trying to give a good news story.

10:51

So they're trying to make it seem like more people got it than they really did. But I feel like a few people with Domino's tattoos are not going to be getting 100 free pizzas for 100 years.

11:01

So. Okay. So let's think about this for a second. We got 100 free pizzas. If you get 100 free pizzas a year for 100 years, you could technically survive.

11:09

Oh, yeah. As a human. Right. Oh, easily. Yeah. You can technically survive off for the cost of a tattoo.

11:15

Yeah. Because I mean, obviously you'd be going days. Well, you just slice it up and you can just sparse out the pizza slices.

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Slice it up. One pizza every 3 .65 days.

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Take the same pizza and just sort of distribute it over several days. You could literally survive off of Domino's pizza for the rest of your life.

11:31

You will not look well. Well, I mean, what if you could get, like, no cheese and just, like, have them pile a bunch of vegetables on it?

11:38

That's not too horrible. No. Keep it to two slices. Yeah. You do breakfast pizzas owner. That's right. Yeah.

11:43

I don't know. Well, apparently you can only do it if you're one of the 350 winners. Wow. Otherwise, you just have yourself a very nice Domino's tattoo.

11:52

Somebody got in a lot of trouble. I imagine higher up. Like, that's just not something you can go back.

12:00

You literally can't go back on it. Right, right. Like, you can't. You have a tattoo forever. So are

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Russians as litigious as us in the US? Are they all suing Domino's? Are they allowed to be?

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That's a good question. I don't know. Because in America, Domino's would now be officially over. They'd be done.

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Because they'd be sued by every person that did it. Yep. I imagine they would be.

12:24

So that's crazy. Anyway, good luck to the 350 people. Right. And to the rest of you.

12:31

Sorry about that. That's right. So I wouldn't do it.

12:37

It's wild to actually cut into your body like that for free pizza and then end up not getting what you asked for.

12:44

Yeah, that's a letdown. That's a big letdown. So we are going to go ahead and dive right in today to the subject before us.

12:51

I'm sure that everybody watching this right now or listening to it right now on your podcast feed or whatever, you've all heard something about Kavanaugh.

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Kavanaugh is a judge. He is the nominee for the next position in the Supreme Court. And shortly before all this took place, we learned of these allegations.

13:11

Dr. Ford alleges that she was sexually assaulted by Kavanaugh. And I think the dates sort of shifted and changed.

13:20

So you'll see there were some saying it was early in the 80s and then it was the mid 80s. And so it's kind of gone back and forth.

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But I believe the date that was settled on was sometime in 1982, because that's what Kavanaugh was actually addressing.

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So the allegations were that Dr. Ford was assaulted, sexually assaulted by Kavanaugh, I guess around 1982.

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And the challenge in all of it is from one aspect of this, people are saying, why did you hold onto this information for so long?

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And it just seems very convenient that you're releasing it right now. And so far from being sort of a quote unquote job interview where Kavanaugh has asked questions, this has become a whole debacle related to sexual assault charges.

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And so everybody knows. And we have to ask the question, how are we supposed to actually engage this?

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And so I want to say that this is an important question because it goes beyond just our favorite political party and the person that we want in the

14:19

Supreme Court. We'll just start with this. My problem with this initially is that I know that many people are hopeful for Kavanaugh because they say he's a pro -life guy.

14:31

Having a pro -life guy in the Supreme Court might mean the end of Roe. And I know that a lot of Democrats and liberals are saying we cannot have him on the

14:38

Supreme Court because we're going to lose our abortion rights. Let me just say to the Democrats who believe that, the liberals who believe that,

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I don't believe you're in any danger in terms of Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court undoing

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Roe versus Wade. I think that you're going to maintain your abortion rights with a pro -life person on the

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Supreme Court because we need to remember that when Roe passed, it was a

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Republican dominated Supreme Court. And when Roe passed, we had what many pro -lifers are dreaming of today, a

15:12

Supreme Court ruled by conservatives, those sorts of things. Well, that's who gave us Roe versus Wade. I don't believe that that's the way to undo

15:19

Roe versus Wade or to actually end abortion in our country. Even if you had Roe v.

15:25

Wade overturned by the Supreme Court today, you would still have abortion taking place within the states because of the incremental legislation that pro -life groups have put into place.

15:36

So let me just explain that for those of you who are hearing this for the first time. The pro -life groups have opted for an incremental strategy towards ending abortion at the state level.

15:48

And what they've done is they've actually added restrictions. So they say that abortion shall be illegal except for, and they give you all these different reasons or ways that abortion can still be possible at the state level.

16:00

What that has effectively done is it's actually put legislation in at the state level that even if you remove

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Roe, abortion is now legal at the state because of the pro -life legislation put into place that actually specifies how abortions can take place.

16:14

So they'll say things like, you can't have an abortion under 22 weeks or 20 weeks or whatever, or I would, sorry, beyond 22 or 20 weeks, which means ipso facto, by logical deduction, you can have at the state level abortions below 20 weeks.

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And that amazingly is legislation that is often put into place by conservative pro -lifers.

16:41

So when we think about Roe being pushed aside, we need to consider the fact that since Roe began pro -life movement, the pro -life movement has had an abysmal disastrous strategy of ending abortion that has actually helped abortion stay legal at the state level.

16:58

So hear what I'm saying. And help Planned Parenthood monopolize the industry. That's right. So hear what I'm saying.

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And I don't mean this in any way to cut anybody's throats or hurt anybody here. I just mean this in terms of let's think about it as Christians and be honest with ourselves about effective strategies.

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If Roe is ended tonight at 8 p .m., abortion is still happening tomorrow in the states because the pro -life movement's incremental legislation.

17:20

Just consider that. So if someone says, well, then what in the world are we going to do? Well, the answer, of course, is for states to actually exercise their state sovereignty.

17:29

Lesser magistrates. This union, lesser magistrates need to uphold their duties as lesser magistrates and resist the tyrannical, horrible opinion of a higher court, which is not legislation.

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Roe v. Wade is not legislation. It's an opinion of a court based upon a faulty premise that what's inside the womb is potential human life.

17:48

So with all that said, I think the big hubbub over Kavanaugh is many people are thinking on both sides,

17:54

Republican and Democrat, they're thinking if Kavanaugh's in place, we can undo Roe. Now, I think that's an ineffective strategy.

18:02

I think it goes against how our system of government is supposed to work. Congress makes legislation according to our constitution, not the

18:08

Supreme Court. So the states have the right to just reject the opinion of the Supreme Court and a state like Arizona, our state, can say we have

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Arizona statute 13 -3603 that says that abortion is a criminal act. All we have to do in Arizona is the lesser magistrate has to say, we're going to uphold 13 -3603.

18:27

Abortion is illegal in Arizona. It's a crime. And we resist the Supreme Court's tyrannical opinion. That's what we must do.

18:33

So with that said, I don't personally believe there's any threat with Kavanaugh in terms of abortion ending in our country.

18:40

But people believe that on both sides. And I believe that's where the big hubbub is. Yeah, we talked about this a little bit last week.

18:46

Just Doug's article was really great about this where it's, it's just, it's essentially a war, literally a war over worship.

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And so you have the left side, the liberals who are going to go to battle, they will fight to the death to maintain their ability to worship comfort in this situation.

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You know, abortion is a matter of worship for them, right? And so they will go to the mat. They will, they will die. As we're witnessing, they will do anything they possibly can to try to keep that option available.

19:21

And so, yeah, like you're saying, so they, in their mind, they think that Kavanaugh becoming, or being approved to the

19:30

Supreme Court, then will end their, their ability to abort their children.

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And yeah, so that's, so that's why you're seeing a lot of just evil tactics, you know, and yeah, so.

19:44

Joy, anything? Well, I just, if you're dealing, if you're, if you're, these are two like separate things, like where his ability to overturn

19:58

Roe v. Wade and a sexual assault are two different things. And you're not supposed to, the sober minded, clear thinking person shouldn't let guilt be determined by the good, or the potential good, or the potential evil that a person can do.

20:20

They can, they're like, how would you like to be in a courtroom where that happened? If someone was like, oh, well,

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I have a lot of money, so my sexual assault suddenly means less because I can contribute to society.

20:32

That's not how we're supposed to, you know, in the general public is obviously not a courtroom setting.

20:38

It's not a legal setting. But that's not how we're supposed to form our opinions about people.

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We're not supposed to give people a free pass on sexual assault, if they can abortion. And we're certainly not supposed to make false sexual allegations.

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I'm not saying that's what happened here to keep people from overturning.

20:59

So we're going to actually now play just a little clip to introduce a little bit more about the discussion what's taken place.

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It's actually this one's from Fox News, just an overall picture of what's taken place thus far. So you can get a good understanding of some of the witnesses that were questioned, what

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Dr. Ford has been saying. And so just a short clip here, just to give everyone an overall picture, if you have not been updated.

21:21

From the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, Edward Lawrence is there. What's going on there, Edward? Well, Neil, yeah, yeah.

21:27

A very emotional day, obviously, for Christine Blasey Ford, as she's giving her testimony on the verge of tears, as you saw several times as she recounted, made her accusation saying that Judge Brett Kavanaugh, then a teenager and a friend, pushed her into a bedroom, then jumped on top of her.

21:42

And she says she felt like she was going to be raped. Now, Senator Dick Durbin in the room says that he wanted a clarification of her memory.

21:50

Listen. Dr. Ford, with what degree of certainty do you believe

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Brett Kavanaugh assaulted you? 100 percent. Now, to begin this hearing,

22:02

Senator Chuck Grassley, the chairman of this committee, said that they have investigated all of the allegations, including

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Ford's. My staff reached out to other individuals allegedly at the party,

22:15

Mark Judge, Patrick Smith, Leland Kaiser, all three submitted statements to the

22:20

Senate under penalty of felony, denying any knowledge of the events described by Dr.

22:28

Ford. Dr. Ford's lifelong friend, Ms. Kaiser, stated she doesn't know

22:35

Judge Kavanaugh and doesn't recall ever attending a party with him. Now, for her part, the ranking

22:42

Democrat on the committee, Senator Dianne Feinstein, defended her actions in holding on to this letter for about six weeks.

22:50

She reiterated that she wanted this held confidential, and I held it confidential up to a point where the witness was willing to come forward.

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And during most of this questioning, they turned it over to a career prosecutor who questioned the memory of Ford.

23:10

Would it be fair to say that somebody drove you somewhere, either to the party or home from the party?

23:18

Correct. OK. Has anyone come forward to say to you, hey, remember, I was the one that drove you home?

23:24

No. OK. She could also not remember where the party was or what date it happened,

23:30

Neil. All right. Thank you very, very much, my friend. Edward Lawrence on Capitol Hill. So there's just a bit of an overview.

23:37

There's more that could be said. I think we need to pay attention, close attention to God's standards here in terms of how do we think through these sorts of things.

23:45

Because let me just say this. In God's law, God actually upholds both people. One, he upholds the victim in terms of he gives just penalties for those who have been truly violated.

23:54

So whether it's theft, whether it's rape, whether it's murder, whatever the case may be, God's standards are just.

24:00

They are good. If you read the book of Hebrews in chapter 12, it says that every violation, every sin that took place received a just penalty.

24:08

So according to the New Testament, the writer of Hebrews in chapter two, I believe it's first 14.

24:13

Am I escaping at the moment? The writer of Hebrews says in the New Testament, post -cross, post -resurrection, post -ascension, that every crime, every sin received a just penalty.

24:25

So it wasn't unjust, okay? So God's law gives just penalties. The book of Ecclesiastes says that people's hearts, men's hearts are emboldened to do wickedness when justice is not executed speedily.

24:36

So when justice is not done in a culture, in a society, when it's not done quickly, it says that men's hearts are emboldened to do wickedness.

24:44

So when we lose God's standards of justice in the world, then we see that people's hearts are emboldened to do wickedness.

24:50

God upholds both things. One, justice, true justice for the victim. But also, and this is very, very critical,

24:56

God upholds justice and high standards for the accused. In other words, that whole saying that we have in our culture and society, where it says innocent until proven guilty, you ought to know that that is from the

25:10

Christian worldview. That is from the biblical worldview. When you look at British common law, when you look at the history of law and what we've got in the

25:17

United States of America, it all traces right back to the Pentateuch, the five books of Moses.

25:23

It goes back to the law of God. Christians in history established civilizations, and they pointed back to the law of God.

25:29

Of course, I've said this many times before, our first Supreme Court justice. Hey, Supreme Court justice. John Jay was a solid, solid

25:35

Christian, loved God, was heavily involved in missions work and getting Bibles around the world.

25:41

When John Jay, our first Supreme Court justice, was writing case law in the United States of America and pointing to law, he actually pointed to the law of God in the

25:49

Old Testament. And so, in the law of God, God's law does not permit us, ever, does not permit us to receive accusations on the basis of one witness.

26:00

I'll give you that verse again. I said at the beginning of the episode, it says, a single witness, sorry, Deuteronomy 19 .1.

26:06

A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed, only on the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses shall a charge be established.

26:17

Now, of course, when we look at that, we can take the general equity of that law today.

26:23

Two to three witnesses means two to three independent lines of witness and testimony.

26:28

So, you could, of course, add to that. You could add DNA testing. That's a witness.

26:34

You could also add, but we gotta be careful with that. It has to be genuine DNA testing that actually points to that specific person, not an

26:41

I only say this because we know of examples of DNA testing being used to say, no, it wasn't his, but it is in the spectrum of men who fall into that category and people actually being charged because DNA falls into a spectrum of men.

26:58

So, you gotta be careful with that DNA evidence. Even that has to be vetted. So, when we say two to three witnesses, the general equity of that would just say two to three independent lines,

27:06

DNA evidence. Of course, the supreme example today would be video cameras. Video camera evidence, of course, counts.

27:12

So, you can have, you know, not just one person. You can also have other witnesses, but God's law does not permit us.

27:20

Does not permit us. It'd be a sin if you did it. Catch that. It would be a sin in God's law for me to receive an accusation against somebody on the basis of a single witness.

27:32

One line of evidence. God says you are not permitted to do that, which means it is a sin to receive accusations on the basis of one person's witness.

27:41

I think, of course, we need to look at something very critical here, and that's one of the things said in the video, and that is that there were three people who were, who gave sworn statements under penalty of perjury, and they said they had no knowledge of what

27:56

Dr. Ford is talking about. Dr. Ford didn't know the day it took place. She didn't even know where it took place, and she has no evidence of a person that drove her to or from this event.

28:06

When you talk about one witness, here's a person that says something took place over 30 years ago, and she says she doesn't know when, she doesn't know where, and she has no witnesses to corroborate this event.

28:20

It's just upon her own memory and her own testimony, and the accused, who is Dr. Kavanaugh, is denying, forcefully denying the allegations and trying to provide evidence that it could not have been him.

28:30

Here's the point. Only God knows. Only God knows the truth about this accusation, and we have to trust the just judge of all the universe, who will always do right, that ultimately, as Christians, we have complicated situations like this.

28:46

We have to just err on the side of the accused and say there is not enough witness and testimony to actually receive the accusation.

28:54

We must trust God as ultimate judge that He knows, and that justice will be done, but we cannot, as Christians, receive accusations on the basis of one person's testimony and witness.

29:06

There are other questions that need to come into play here in terms of memory. I would encourage you guys to do a study on this.

29:12

It is very, very important. It is possible for people to have memories, false memories, and I'm not saying that,

29:20

Dr. Ford, that this didn't happen. You understand my position here is I'm not saying I know. I'm not saying that we can ultimately know.

29:26

What I'm saying is only God knows, but God's standards, His judicial standards for receiving accusations do not permit us to actually, at this point, receive the allegation.

29:36

In particular, when you have two to three other witnesses who were supposedly there who say,

29:43

I have no knowledge whatsoever of this event. So that's a critical point, I think, to make. You guys want to add anything to that?

29:49

Yeah, just along those lines, I was going to say, you know, this is not us saying, oh,

29:54

Kavanaugh's innocent. You know, like you said, we don't know for sure what happened. But what this is, is us saying this is how this process should take place according to God's law, regardless of who is right or wrong in the situation, the way it's being handled.

30:09

I mean, it's a joke. If anybody watched the hearing last week, it was right after we did our radio show, we went and watched the rest of it, and it was a complete circus.

30:20

I mean, I could not believe what I was watching, you know, and I mean, even when the one guy was like, what does boof mean?

30:29

I was like, are we, is this really happening right now? Like the yearbook stuff? Yeah, I was like, come on.

30:35

So yeah, so that's what that's what this is. This is just us saying this is how this stuff should take place.

30:40

How we're supposed to filter. Exactly. Exactly. So go ahead. Anything? No. Yeah. Okay. I just agree.

30:47

Okay, good. So, Deuteronomy 19 .15 was the one, but I just want you to know this is not a matter of proof texting or finding a verse.

30:53

It seems convenient here. This is the whole, the entire spectrum of Scripture testifies to this, both old and new.

31:00

Now, here's what's critical. Please hear me on this. I mean this very humbly. Whatever your perspective is today on the law of God, we are, of course, those who are in the

31:09

Puritan tradition, we believe that the law of God has abiding validity today in the New Testament. We believe that you have to assume the continuity of the

31:16

Old Testament law, except where the New Testament inspired authors and writers tell you there's been a change in administration.

31:22

So, for example, in the New Testament, you have New Testament authors, inspired apostles saying things like Ephesians 2, that the holiness code, the law of commandments and ordinances, that that's now gone, dietary restrictions, those sorts of things, that those were meant to be a dividing wall between Jew and Gentile, but in Christ now that wall has been broken down and it's gone.

31:41

It has a purpose. It had a purpose. It was pointing to Jesus, to holiness, to sanctification, to separateness from the world, and now that is done because we have

31:49

Christ the substance. You also have other examples in the New Testament where we know what, say, the animal sacrifices are for.

31:56

Christ is the one and only sacrifice. It's a perfect sacrifice. No more animal sacrifices because the substance is here.

32:02

No more temple. No more high priest. No more of those things because Jesus, the substance, is here. The shadow's gone.

32:08

However, you see the New Testament apostles assuming the law of God all throughout the

32:14

New Testament. A couple examples. One, the apostle Paul, post cross resurrection and ascension of Jesus.

32:20

So all this is done now. Jesus is on his throne. He actually appeals to an animal husbandry law.

32:26

That's just crazy. An animal husbandry law from Old Testament law. And that is where he says, don't muzzle the ox while it treads.

32:34

And he doesn't say, hey, we know the law is defunct and it's all over now. But hey, why don't we try keep this one? He just quotes it like you're supposed to know this.

32:43

Don't muzzle the ox while it treads. Guys, that's an animal husbandry law. How much of the Old Testament law is abiding and valid today in a new covenant?

32:51

Well, down to animal husbandry. The general equity of that law is you don't muzzle the ox while it treads.

32:56

Pay the person who is working. That's the point. Another example from the

33:01

Old Testament into the New Testament is, of course, you have the example of judicial law. And this gets right here to this point we're on now.

33:07

Two to three witnesses. So example would be in Matthew 18, 16.

33:13

The text about church discipline. That's a text where it says, Jesus says, every matter may be established by the testimony of two to three witnesses.

33:22

Jesus, New Testament, Matthew 18, appealing to the Old Testament judicial law of receiving accusations.

33:29

Two to three witnesses. So you have another example in 2

33:34

Corinthians 13, 1. This is the third time I'm coming to you. Every matter must be established by the testimony of two to three witnesses.

33:42

1 Timothy 5, 19. After the resurrection of Jesus and ascension of Jesus, Paul tells Timothy, he says this, do not entertain an accusation against an elder except on the testimony of two to three witnesses.

33:54

So my point there is that this is not something you can say, well, that's Old Testament law. Doesn't apply. I'm saying

34:00

Jesus applies it. New Covenant, Paul applies it. New Covenant, that's judicial law in terms of receiving accusations.

34:07

Notice how that translation says that. I like that. Don't entertain an accusation against an elder unless it's on the basis of two to three witnesses.

34:14

So there's God's judicial law in the New Testament. Finally, I'll say this. The Decalogue, the 10 words, the 10 commandments is also assumed in terms of continuity in the

34:24

New Testament by the apostle Paul post -resurrection of Jesus. Ephesians chapter 6 is where Paul says to children, children obey your parents in the

34:33

Lord. He says this is the first commandment with promise. That, of course, is not taking place before the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, the outpouring of the

34:42

Spirit of God at Pentecost. That's occurring long after. Paul just assumes it's continuity.

34:48

So my point there is that as Christians, we have a command from God. Do not dare receive an accusation except on the basis of two to three witnesses, which means that we have to say that we take judicial standards seriously in terms of rape.

35:03

What do we believe here about rape accusations? He deserves to die. Yeah, not just not be a

35:10

Supreme Court judge. Right. If he's guilty, he deserves a death penalty. Right. That's what I meant by the separation of the two issues here.

35:18

Because it's not really that it's a completely separate thing.

35:23

Yeah, exactly. And you have to hold them in different categories, right? We have a hard time in this modern time thinking in different categories, but we have to.

35:32

And I think that it's clear that we have to pay attention to Scripture in terms of receiving accusations, and we have to take seriously judicial standards for the woman who is raped.

35:41

I think that our society today does not value the woman and her dignity the same way

35:48

God does in his law, where he says the person who would go so far as to rape somebody deserves to die.

35:53

They forfeited their right to live by committing that crime. And so we say today, well, six months, three months, five years, three years probation.

36:03

I just saw a news article about a guy that raped a six -year -old. He didn't get the death penalty. He got a couple years in jail for raping a six -year -old.

36:10

A six -year -old. He deserves to die. So if you guys are listening to this today, maybe you guys, you know, you're atheists or agnostics.

36:17

You guys are hostile to the message of apology at church. I know you guys are out there. Hello. Welcome. We love you. And you're thinking, well, you're just trying to protect

36:24

Kavanaugh because you guys are those Republican conservatives. A, I don't consider myself a Republican at all.

36:30

And B, that's not my point with Kavanaugh. I think that if it's true, he deserves to die. However, I'm saying you cannot receive this accusation according to God because it's on the basis of one witness who cannot get our story even corroborated with independent witnesses.

36:43

I'm not saying she has no right to say something. I'm saying that if we're going to investigate, we have to say, I'm not accepting it.

36:49

I'm not believing you. Prove it. Prove it. And until you prove it,

36:55

I'm not entertaining it. I'm not going to receive the accusation. I'm not going to assume that you're right.

37:00

I'm going to assume his complete innocence until you demonstrate that he's guilty.

37:06

Now we have a system that says when an accusation is made, you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent.

37:13

It's literally the reverse. We literally have people saying things today like believe victims.

37:18

Really? Believe all victims? Really? How many news articles do you need me to provide to you when you say believe all victims, showing you women that have given false allegations of rape towards men coming out later and saying,

37:34

I lied or a man going to jail for 15 or 35 years. You know, these stories that I'm referring to where there's a false accusation of rape.

37:43

He was in jail, lost 30 years of his life because of a false accusation. Rape comes out later. He didn't do it.

37:49

So do women and men make false allegations against one another? Yes.

37:55

And how about this? We've got a supreme example in the Bible. One of our heroes of the faith,

38:00

Joseph, he is actually brought into slavery into Egypt and he goes into Potiphar's house and Potiphar's wife lies and says that he tried to rape her.

38:11

Yeah. One of our biblical heroes received a false allegation of rape. Mr. Potiphar.

38:16

Mr. Potiphar. Mr. Potiphar. Merry Christmas, Mr. Potiphar. Oh, he's getting, it's getting in that time of year again.

38:23

That's right. So you're gonna be hearing lots of these quotes from us. So here's a, unless you guys have anything to add, I'm just gonna say one more point on this.

38:29

I was just gonna say, you see this a lot with, especially with, with athletes. You know, you see a lot of women that make these accusations and they just know, a lot of times they just get paid off.

38:39

Right. They don't go to court. They get money and then they shut them up and they never have to go to court because it's cheaper and it's better for these guys, you know, reputation if it doesn't go to, go to court and stuff.

38:51

And yeah, I mean, if God, like this whole thing you've been saying, if, if, if God's law was our standard, right, this wouldn't be happening because there would be real consequences for these, for women making these false allegations.

39:03

Well, and also it's important to mention I'm not, I'm certainly not comparing assault to adultery or sexual immorality, but we don't have a good sexual ethic in our country to begin with.

39:17

Right. We're not following God's law by any stretch of the imagination. Right, right. We like people engage in adultery all the time, premarital sex all the time.

39:26

And it's actually encouraged, especially to women now. But I just want to say that the one thing that the world isn't going to tell you in a situation like this for fear of sounding like they're blaming the victim, which

39:39

I would never do. So if you want to say I'm doing it, that's fine, but I would never do that. Is that there's no encouragement to, to immediately report assaults that happen.

39:51

Yes. And the reason why nobody wants to say that is because I absolutely understand the, the shame and the humiliation that's involved in reporting something like that and having to acknowledge that something like that has happened to you.

40:02

But what we're seeing right now is a bunch of women, whether it's false or whether it's true, they're all coming out and they're saying that they were assaulted by various people and, and there isn't any just, there's no real justice in our world.

40:19

Justice is being, being slammed by public opinion. Now just everyone knows, but that's not real justice.

40:26

That's not the justice that God calls for, for the person that commits an assault, a sexual assault.

40:32

He calls for them to die. He doesn't say, oh, and everyone will just know and think really poorly of you and you'll, you won't get any more brand deals or book deals.

40:40

So we're completely like, I don't believe the lie that, that encouraging an assault victim to report is victim blaming.

40:51

It doesn't put, there's, there, there isn't a responsibility on the victim to report, but they should.

41:00

And, and the, the reason is that if you want justice, that is how you're going to do it.

41:07

Yeah. That's how you're going to maintain evidence, those independent lines of testimony.

41:12

And so I'm not trying to sound callous or cruel or by any means say that if, if you were assaulted that you have to report.

41:21

Now I do think there is a little bit, there's something a little bit different. Just with she, she

41:28

Ford was mentioned, she was quoted as saying, you know, once I saw that he was going to be in this position,

41:34

I realized like everyone needs to know about this. But the point, so, so that's all at face value.

41:41

That makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't really, because he deserved, if it really happened, he deserved justice back then, not just when he was going to become a part of.

41:53

Yeah. Yeah. So it just, well, I say all that just to help you guys think a little bit more clearly about what's happening in our country, about what's, what's going on with situations like this and how they, they don't provide the sexual ethic and the justice that we call justice.

42:12

Doesn't provide anything for the victim, really for most victims of anything, but specifically the victims of sexual assault.

42:19

And it's interesting too, in the, in God's case law in the old Testament, in reference to rape, there are several examples of like what to do in the case of rape.

42:25

And there's even an example of a person who has raped away from people, right. You know, and, and no one's there to witness it.

42:32

Right. And what's amazing about God is He actually encourages in His law.

42:38

He tells the woman, cry out. Meaning go and report this. So that God removes the shame from the victim in reporting like, you know, like you'll feel dirty.

42:50

You'll feel foul. You'll feel, you know, whatever the case may be, God's telling the woman, you have a responsibility to make sure that people know you bring people into this with you.

43:00

The community is supposed to gather around the woman for protection when she's raped.

43:05

The rape victim is to be held as supremely valuable and protected and with dignity.

43:12

And so it's because she hasn't, there is no shame. He doesn't just say, oh, there was shame, but I'm taking it away.

43:19

Right. What he's saying is there, you did nothing wrong. So there is nothing for you to make up for.

43:26

There is no, there's nothing that even needs to happen here. And I'm certainly not speaking in an emotional capacity or whatever, but in terms of the law, you're not guilty in any way.

43:38

There's no guilt that's removed. Right. If you're the victim of an assault, you are, you are just, you're, you are without shame.

43:46

You're right. And so the call for God is to actually not hide this, but report.

43:51

And there's protection for the victim at that point. So here's another element of protection in God's law in terms of the judicial system.

44:00

Don't receive accusations unless there's two to three independent lines of witness and testimony. But then in that same text,

44:07

Deuteronomy, it's the same text. Deuteronomy 19, 15 was a single witness will not suffice against a person for any crime.

44:13

But in that same text in verse 17, it says this, no, 16. If a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing, then both parties to dispute shall appear before the

44:25

Lord, before the priests and the judges who are in office in those days, the judges shall inquire diligently.

44:31

And if the witness is a false witness, so there's, there's, we have the cross examination. So the whole idea of cross examination is right here in the text.

44:38

Diligent, you actually question the witness, cross examine them. And it says this, the judges shall inquire diligently.

44:44

And if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely, then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother.

44:51

So you shall purge the evil from your midst. So it's powerful. There is actually a protection within God's judicial system, a protection against malicious witnesses, because now the person who in God's system knows this,

45:05

I better know this is true. It better be right, because if I stand here in this courtroom and it's found out that I am lying about this whole thing, then

45:17

I'm going to get whatever he was going to get. Which means if it was theft, I have money's coming out of my pocket now.

45:23

If it was rape, I'm dying. So false accusations in God's court,

45:30

God says, well, you're going to get what this person would have got. And so God's law says two to three witnesses.

45:36

If there's a malicious false witness, who's falsely accusing somebody, that person gets what the other person would have gotten.

45:42

And then here's the standard that is so often, it's so often misunderstood by Christians.

45:49

Here's the standard. Verse 20, and the rest shall hear and fear. Do you get it? That's the point of this, is to cause fear to fall on everybody.

45:58

Don't you dare be a false witness in court. The point of it is to cause fear and shall never again commit any such evil among you.

46:05

Your eyes shall not pity. So God says this, do not pity the person who's a malicious false witness that ends up punished for it.

46:14

God actually says this, I command you not to have any pity for that person. That's actually tough to do.

46:20

If you think about it as an image bearer of God, I know this person's lied. I know they could have gotten this person killed, but now they have to die.

46:26

God says this, you are not to show any pity to the person who went so far as to falsely accuse somebody.

46:34

No pity. You must hold justice high at that point. It shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

46:43

That means equal scales, equal justice. It's right in the context of life for life, eye for eye of a malicious witness, accusing somebody else maybe of rape that's false.

46:54

This person would have died. And so now this person is going to get it. That's eye for eye, equal justice.

47:01

You were going to get him killed. Now you're going to die. Equal scales, equal justice.

47:07

People say, but I thought Jesus abolished all that. No, he did not. In the

47:13

Sermon on the Mount. Did he abolish? What about the part where he says that an assault victim is without shame?

47:22

Was that, did that part go out too? Because that's a problem. And also it's interesting.

47:28

Don't you think it's interesting that Jesus quotes from this text, two to three witnesses, and says, this is how you're to handle church discipline. So apparently he didn't abolish the law because he appeals to it in church discipline.

47:39

But what's interesting is in the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus says, you've heard it said eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and those things.

47:47

He says, but I say to you, don't return evil for evil. If somebody strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other.

47:52

Jesus was referring there to their first century perversion of the judicial law where they were using it for mob justice.

47:59

They were using it as an excuse to retaliate. And they say, hey man, this guy did it to me. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, sucker.

48:06

I'm going to get you. Right. They were using it as retaliation. They were using it in a judicial sense for the courts to actually establish equal weights and justice for eye for eye, tooth for tooth.

48:16

They were saying, I'm going to retaliate. I'll return fire. Proof is that Jesus says, if somebody strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other.

48:24

Right -handed culture. I've said this many times before. It's a right -handed culture. They constant references in the Bible to the right hand, because that was the right -handed, like that's how they reference things, the right -handed culture.

48:35

So Jesus says, if somebody strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other. How would you hit somebody in a right -handed culture on the right cheek?

48:41

You'd have to backhanded slap them. So Jesus says, turn the other cheek. If somebody gives you the insult, they try to denigrate you.

48:49

Just turn the other cheek. Don't return the insult. Don't return fire. Has nothing to do with God abolishing his standard of justice.

48:56

Are we really, I'm going to say the last thing. Are we really going to suggest, are we seriously going to suggest that the

49:02

God of the Bible, the holy and just God has now abandoned his commitment to just standards?

49:10

Are we really going to say that God no longer cares about equal justice, which is what I for I means, equal justice.

49:17

Are we really going to suggest that God has abandoned the idea of equal justice?

49:23

I don't think so. Not the judge of all the earth who is a perfect judge. No way. I'm going to play one more thing unless you got something.

49:30

I was going to say, Christ didn't say that he abolished the law. He said he fulfilled it. Right. And that's where there's confusion for whatever reason.

49:37

A lot of people assume or say that Jesus said that he came to abolish it.

49:42

And he even says, no, I didn't come to abolish it. I came to fulfill it. And he says, if anybody teaches anybody, anyone to disobey even the least of these commandments, it'd be called leasing the kingdom of God.

49:53

So that's how Jesus feels about the law of God. And I think we ought to feel the same way. Let me go ahead and just play.

49:59

I'm going to play a clip here. This is from Ford and this was in reference to the polygraph.

50:05

This is important. And this is where I think we could probably have a good conversation. So the issue of polygraph, let's say somebody makes a false accusation against Pastor Luke.

50:14

Someone makes an accusation. Well, I won't say false accusation. Let's say somebody makes the accusation and they've got no other witnesses.

50:21

It's just the lone witness against Pastor Luke. Pastor Luke, according to God's law, has absolutely no requirement, obligation, or duty to even help them in any way.

50:34

They're the accuser. He is to be seen innocent until proven guilty, which means they have to prove the case.

50:41

He does not need to assist because if he's truly guilty, according to God's law, you don't need his help.

50:47

Other witnesses and evidence demonstrate his guilt. So in God's law, you ever hear the statement we have in the

50:53

United States, you have the right to remain silent. That's because God's standards, his judicial standards say this, you don't have to help your accuser, which means if somebody makes an accusation against Luke or Joy or me, my mouth stays shut.

51:08

This is essentially what it's like. You think I'm guilty? You think I did this? It's your job to prove it.

51:14

Well, Jeff, I'd like to ask you some questions. Nope. I don't have to assist you in any way because if you really think

51:23

I'm guilty and you say I've done this, then you have to demonstrate it with the two to three independent lines of witness and testimony.

51:29

So go for it. I don't have to offer you any assistance whatsoever. So this question of polygraph...

51:34

Really quickly, we're not talking about all of us having done things that are really, really wrong and then just being like, no,

51:42

I'm going to get away with it. That's not the context of it. We've had this happen at the mill, at the abortion mill, where the police have come, you know, and they try to get you to say something to incriminate you.

51:52

And we're just like, I'm not going to answer that. This is a... The example is protecting yourself, not protecting your guilt.

52:02

Exactly. What I'm saying there is the accused, according to God, has rights. And the right is to be seen as innocent until proven guilty.

52:11

And he has the right to actually not help the accuser because the accuser, if it's true that you're guilty, you don't need the person who's accused to help you.

52:21

You already have the evidence that demonstrates the guilt. So that's where we get the idea of the right to remain silent.

52:28

That doesn't come from atheism, friends. That comes from the Christian worldview. But this whole issue of polygraph,

52:34

I think, is really important to talk about. You don't hear a lot of Christians talking about this, and I think it'd be good to talk about.

52:39

We've been pastors for a long time, and we've had instances where we've had to help people who have gone to court.

52:46

I've had to go and testify in court for people. I've had to write letters to judges. And we started off as that drug church in Phoenix.

52:54

So a lot of people who were dealing with the courts and under threat of imprisonment, all those things.

52:59

I've had to beg judges for mercy. We've also had situations where we've had people accused of things and polygraphs were used.

53:07

And I want to say this. I think I would generally tell anybody, do not take a polygraph.

53:16

It's not necessary and not helpful. Because I give you one example of a person who was falsely accused. They did three polygraphs.

53:23

The first polygraph, interestingly, the polyographer said, I will go before a judge in any court, and I'll put my entire career on this.

53:31

This person did not do this. Absolutely no question. He'd been doing it for like 40 years.

53:37

And he said, this person did not do it. I will stand before a judge and tell them you are out of your mind if you let this person go to jail for this, essentially.

53:47

And so that was the first polygraph. Absolute, 100%, not guilty. Second polygraph was, we don't know.

53:54

Wasn't it, we don't know. It was confusing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, excuse me. I mean, the first one, the judge wouldn't even look at.

54:01

And this is where, I know you have more to say, but what we're learning is that ultimately, polygraphs are completely subjective to the judge, essentially, or the jury.

54:09

Because the judge wouldn't even look at that one. But then these other ones, the state did, essentially.

54:15

Yeah. Yeah. And the first one was inconclusive. Yeah. So the state did them as inconclusive. And the third one was guilty.

54:22

So check it out. Three polygraphs taken on the same person. First one, 100 % did not do it.

54:27

No question, not guilty. Second one, inconclusive. Third one, guilty. Literally three, all different results.

54:35

Not guilty. We don't know. Totally guilty. Three. They're so, they're notoriously unreliable.

54:41

I'm amazed that anyone even. Yeah. Is using them anymore. Yeah. I was just gonna say, the inconclusive one, this person was asked questions that there was not a right answer to.

54:53

Right. Like they could not have possibly answered it truthfully. The way the questions were worded, and then it came back as inconclusive.

55:00

And it was just a trap to get them. Was it the kind of question like, have you stopped beating your wife? Yeah. It was like, did you?

55:06

Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. This person was innocent of what they did. They didn't do it. And the question was like, did you mean to do it?

55:13

Yeah. It's like, well, they didn't do it to begin with. Right. Did you mean to do it? Yeah. Unbelievable. So anyway, I want to play this clip. I'll try to go through this quickly.

55:19

This is Ford on why she decided to take a polygraph test. There's a reason I'm playing this.

55:24

So just listen. For Flake, Ms.

55:30

Mitchell for Senator Flake. Thank you. We've heard this morning several times that you did take a polygraph.

55:39

And that was on August the 7th. Is that right? I believe so.

55:44

It's the day I was flying from BWI to Manchester, New Hampshire. OK. Why did you decide to take a polygraph?

55:55

I didn't see any reason not to do it. Were you advised to do that?

56:01

Again, you're seeming to call for communications between counsel and client.

56:07

I don't think you mean to do that. If you do, she shouldn't have to answer that. Counsel, could you let her answer the extent to which she doesn't violate the relationship between you and Dr.

56:23

Ford? Based on the advice of the counsel,

56:46

I was happy to undergo the polygraph test, although I found it extremely stressful, much longer than I anticipated.

56:57

I told my whole life story, I felt like, but I endured it. It was fine.

57:03

I understand they can be that way. Have you ever taken any other polygraphs in your life?

57:09

Never. OK. You went to see a gentleman by the name of Jeremiah Hannafin.

57:17

So this was, you can find this online, Ford and why she decided to take polygraph tests.

57:22

So she's questioned here. Have you ever taken one in your life? She says no. Then she asked, did you receive any assistance or any encouragement on how to take the test?

57:33

She said no. And she said, have you ever given anybody advice before on taking a polygraph test?

57:39

She says no. So what's interesting here is that she was asked, did anybody coach you?

57:45

She said no. She said, have you ever taken one before? No. She said, have you ever given anybody any advice on taking a polygraph?

57:50

She said no. Now, Dr. Ford is a psychiatrist. Right. Right. So this is from the

57:55

New York Post. She's not a psychiatrist. She has a degree in psychology. A degree in psychology.

58:02

She is not a licensed clinical psychologist. OK, there you go. I knew that the doctorate was in psychology.

58:07

That's what that's what I meant. Yeah, she's a doctor of psychology. Doctorate in psychology. So this is from New York Post.

58:15

Ex -boyfriend's letter prompts Grassley to question Ford's truthfulness. An ex -boyfriend of Christine Blasey Ford reportedly wrote a letter to the

58:24

Senate Judiciary Committee contradicting her testimony last Thursday on polygraphs, prompting

58:29

Senator Chuck Grassley to raise doubts about her truthfulness. The man, who says he dated Ford from 1992 to 1998, wrote in the letter that he once saw

58:38

Ford help ease the nerves of a friend preparing to take a polygraph by explaining in detail what to expect and how they work.

58:46

Now, it's interesting. This is, of course, a witness saying his perspective. But just in terms of of of putting these parts and pieces together, here you have a person who is saying that she he as her boyfriend witnessed her actually coaching somebody on taking a polygraph.

59:03

Right. So it's just in terms of of of interrogating a witness, I'm not saying you can receive that allegation.

59:08

I'm not saying it's absolutely true because the boyfriend said it. What I'm saying is that you start to interrogate the witness. You start to listen to other parts and pieces.

59:15

You start to raise questions. Is the person actually telling me the truth? Because this seemingly is a little off.

59:22

Now, this is another example of something that's been heard, I think, a lot. And I think it's important to listen to because it goes to credibility of witnesses and whether somebody's telling the truth and they're always telling you the truth.

59:34

This is Dr. Ford. Question about her fear of flying. May I ask,

59:40

Dr. Ford, how did you get to Washington? In an airplane. OK, it's

59:47

I ask that because it's been reported by the press that you would not submit to an interview with the committee because of your fear of flying.

59:56

Is that true? Well, I was willing I was hoping that they would come to me, but then

01:00:01

I realized that was an unrealistic request. It would have been a quicker trip for me.

01:00:06

Yes. So that was certainly what I was hoping was to avoid having to get on an airplane.

01:00:14

But I eventually was able to get up the gumption with the help of some friends and get on the plane.

01:00:22

When you were here in the mid mid -Atlantic area back in August, end of July, August, how did you get here?

01:00:32

Also by airplane. I come here once a year during the summer to visit my family. OK, I'm sorry, not here.

01:00:38

I go to Delaware. OK. In fact, you fly fairly frequently for your hobbies and you're you've had to fly for your work.

01:00:48

Is that true? Correct. Unfortunately, you you were a consulting biostatistician in Sydney, Australia.

01:00:56

Is that right? I've never been to Australia, but the company that I worked for is based in Australia and they have an office in San Francisco, California.

01:01:04

OK, I don't think I'll make it to Australia. It is long. I also saw on your

01:01:11

CV that you list the following interests of surf travel and you in parentheses put

01:01:17

Hawaii, Costa Rica, South Pacific Islands and French Polynesia. Have you been all to those places?

01:01:22

Correct. By airplane? Yes. And your interests also include oceanography,

01:01:28

Hawaiian and Tahitian culture. Did you travel by air as a part of those interests?

01:01:34

Correct. Thank you very much. Easier for me to travel going that direction when it's a vacation.

01:01:43

So there's, I think, just something interesting in terms of, you know, we can't assume that every person we talk to is telling the truth always.

01:01:51

Again, I wanted to say this because I think it's so important for you to hear me say it. Joy's already repeated this. I think Luke has as well.

01:01:56

We're not saying, we're not saying that we know the truth, the full truth about the situation.

01:02:03

I don't know what happened to Dr. Ford. I don't know if this is a false memory. I don't know if it actually did happen.

01:02:08

I don't know if it was somebody else that did it. She thinks that Kavanaugh did it. I don't know. But I'm saying as Christians, we have to hold to God's standards in terms of how we receive accusations.

01:02:16

And God tells us as priests and judges to actually really rigorously ask the witness questions.

01:02:24

You're supposed to cross -examine and you do have to pay attention to these things. Even as pastors, we have to do this when we sit down with people and there's conflict between brothers and sisters.

01:02:32

We have to ask hard questions. We have to try to figure out, is this person telling me the truth consistently? Is there an inconsistency in their story?

01:02:38

Are they starting to actually try to make themselves look better? Are they only giving me one side of the story that makes them look good and leaving out details that could incriminate them?

01:02:47

We ask these questions. And so it's important, I think, when someone says, I have a fear of flying, but their schedule looks like a constant flying and flying everywhere, flying on vacation, flying across the country.

01:02:56

You have to say, why would you say that? Why would you say I have a fear of flying when you do this all the time?

01:03:02

I think it's interesting. It's just, again, not pointing to actual total guilt. It's just something in terms of interrogation of the witness.

01:03:09

Now, unless you guys have anything else you want to say, I'm going to play a clip that's actually pretty epic. I'm sure everyone heard it.

01:03:15

Okay. So this is the famous one. This is

01:03:20

Lindsey Graham. I did enjoy this clip. Erupting at Kavanaugh's hearing. If you haven't heard it,

01:03:26

I think you should. It was an epic moment that day where Lindsey Graham just kind of blew it.

01:03:31

Are you aware that at 9 .23 on the night of July the 9th, the day you were nominated to the

01:03:40

Supreme Court by President Trump, Senator Schumer said, 23 minutes after your nomination,

01:03:46

I will oppose Judge Kavanaugh's nomination with everything I have. I have a bipartisan — and I hope a bipartisan majority will do the same.

01:03:55

The stakes are simply too high for anything less. Well, if you weren't aware of it, you are now.

01:04:01

Did you meet with Senator Dianne Feinstein on August 20th? I did meet with Senator Feinstein.

01:04:07

Did you know that her staff had already recommended a lawyer to Dr. Ford? I did not know that.

01:04:12

Did you know that her and her staff had these allegations for over 20 days?

01:04:19

I did not know that at the time. If you wanted an FBI investigation, you could have come to us.

01:04:25

What you want to do is destroy this guy's life, hold this seat open, and hope you win in 2020.

01:04:32

You've said that, not me. You've got nothing to apologize for.

01:04:38

When you see Sotomayor and Kagan, tell them that Lindsey said, because I voted for them.

01:04:44

I would never do to them what you've done to this guy. This is the most unethical sham since I've been in politics.

01:04:54

And if you really wanted to know the truth, you sure as hell wouldn't have done what you've done to this guy.

01:05:00

Are you a gang rapist? No. I cannot imagine what you and your family have gone through.

01:05:11

Boy, y 'all want power. God, I hope you never get it. I hope the American people can see through this sham, that you knew about it and you held it.

01:05:20

You had no intention of protecting Dr. Ford. None. She's as much of a victim as you are.

01:05:27

God, I hate to say it, because these have been my friends. But let me tell you, when it comes to this, you're looking for a fair process.

01:05:37

You came to the wrong town at the wrong time, my friend. Do you consider this a job interview?

01:05:45

The advice and consent role is like a job interview. Do you consider that you've been through a job interview? I've been through a process of advice and consent under the

01:05:54

Constitution, which— Would you say you've been through hell? I've been through hell and then some.

01:06:01

This is not a job interview. Yeah. This is hell. This is going to destroy the ability of good people to come forward because of this crap.

01:06:13

Your high school yearbook. You have interacted with professional women all your life.

01:06:20

Not one accusation. You're supposed to be Bill Cosby when you're a junior and senior in high school.

01:06:27

Who'd have thought that Bill Cosby— When you grew up, Bill Cosby would become a pejorative. Oh, I know.

01:06:33

What's up, Bill Cosby? That it's now a pejorative. All you never would have imagined. I grew up watching

01:06:38

Cosby. The day before that, they handcuffed Cosby, so it was fresh. Oh, wow. Fresh in the mind.

01:06:44

Yeah, so I just wanted to play that just so you guys— If you guys haven't been in it and you haven't been listening, you guys at least sort of get caught up.

01:06:50

But I guess my final word here is that it matters. It matters because these are real people, real lives.

01:06:55

And you know what? It may affect you one day. We can say all day long, we can say, you know, Christians don't need to get involved in these things and on and on and on.

01:07:03

I think God's Word clearly states in Isaiah 42, as one example, that the

01:07:09

Messiah himself in his kingdom, in his rule in the world, on his throne, which he is now, is going to establish justice in the earth, that the law is going to come forth from Zion, Isaiah chapter 2,

01:07:19

Isaiah 42. He's going to establish, not grow faint or weary until he does. You have ample examples in scripture of God actually in his redemptive kingdom.

01:07:29

He's going to actually establish justice in the world, put every enemy under his feet as a footstool for his feet.

01:07:35

He's going to reconcile all things to himself in heaven and on earth. He has all authority in heaven and on earth. So I think that justice is a component of what

01:07:43

God is going to do in the world. But I want to say, if you say, I don't think we should get involved in those things,

01:07:49

I want to say, it's easy to say that until you're standing before a judge with someone making an accusation against you.

01:07:55

Then you'll want God's standards of justice. Then you'll want it when it affects your loved one, when it affects a brother or sister at church who is being abused by a court system and being thrown into jail or having their life taken away from them.

01:08:08

Then, will love for neighbor then cause you to say, we need God's standards here.

01:08:14

We need God's standards. It matters a lot. People's lives get destroyed every day because of false accusations. Victims, victims get destroyed by a system that refuses to actually give true justice.

01:08:27

And that's critical. We have both accused justice issues and victim justice issues.

01:08:34

Both matter a great deal. We want to care about both innocent until proven guilty.

01:08:40

And we want to say the victim deserves justice, real justice, not what we deal out today in terms of the state giving out three years probation or something like that.

01:08:50

You know, we have justice handed out today that is nothing like God's standards of justice.

01:08:55

And I want to say, final word from me. I'll give it over to you guys. I think that we need to take very seriously what

01:09:01

God says to the people of Israel in Deuteronomy 3 chapters 4 through 6, where God says that this law that he's giving was supposed to cause the rest of the world to look in and say, wow, what kind of God is this?

01:09:14

What kind of nation that has a God so near to it is this? Laws just as these. That's what

01:09:21

God says about his laws, how he feels. If you want to know how God feels about his law and how I believe he wants us to feel about his law, read

01:09:27

Psalm 119. No big deal. Just the longest chapter in the entire Bible that happens to be about the law of God.

01:09:33

Yeah, go ahead. Well, God have mercy on our nation. So I mean, this is it's it's tragic where we've where we're at now.

01:09:43

And I don't know if this is a sign of God's judgment of grace on us, because you know, privately text all of us at one time.

01:09:53

Trump can text to every one of our cell phones. I'm actually really excited about that. I want to see what's going to happen.

01:09:58

I don't know. Again, I don't know if that's God's mercy or judgment, but it's going to be rich. Lord, please have mercy on our nation. Yeah. Amen.

01:10:05

Yeah. So if you guys want to hear more from Joy, you can listen to Joy and Summer on Sheologians .com.

01:10:11

You can also go watch stuff and listen to stuff at ApologiaStudios .com. Encourage all of you to go to ApologiaStudios .com,

01:10:18

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01:10:24

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01:10:30

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01:10:47

I saw such an encouraging message under one of our videos. I don't usually spend time going through the messages because I want to keep my sanity, but I happened to see one.

01:10:57

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They saw the content. It turned them away from abortion. And now their daughter, his daughter is alive today.

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01:11:27

So you're a part of this with us. Thank you for it very, very much. All right, guys,