Open Air Theology "Lord's day Q&A"

Reformed Ex-mormon

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October 14, 2024

00:36: You can say what you want, but you won't around me. Cheap among misfits.
01:11: A misfit in the trailer park at night. A misprint with the sixth sense.
01:16: Been sick ever since my brother died of an O .D. My two cents never made sense.
01:21: Either to me or anyone else's side of the sheets. It's my ninth fifth on my right side.
01:27: Why you staring at your cop dog? Signing my job? Hear your cock on the dotted line.
01:33: Tell me what's the bottom line? The bottom line is I'm not right. I'm not left, but this elephant won't fight.
01:39: There's nothing left but the spotlight. Hold my beer, you can find me in the moonlight. Moonlight.
01:45: You can say what you want, but you won't around me.
01:51: You can say what you want, but you won't around me. I'm with sin to deep end, and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in.
02:02: My theology don't fit in. Black sheep of the reformation sheep pen. If you got reformed,
02:08: I'm just another Baptist. Baptized again, the bastard child of Anabaptist.
02:14: Host to child of reformation society. We don't need your education. Give me a
02:21: Bible and a bookshelf of dead men. Cigars, bourbons, and beer cans. Bow ties, tattoos, and bearded men.
02:28: Making reformation great again. You can say what you want, but you won't around me.
02:37: You can say what you want, but you won't around me.
02:44: No, you won't around me. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.
02:51: What's up, ladies and gentlemen? Welcome to the Open Air Theology Show. My name is Jeff. I'm one of the co -hosts.
02:56: I actually have to co -host with these two bozos. But I'm also one of the pastor elders at Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tallahoma, Tennessee.
03:05: If you're ever in Tallahoma, Tennessee, you'll come hang out with a real OG. What's up?
03:11: I'm your boy. Pass it down here to old Bredo. Hi, I am
03:16: Pastor Bredon. I am Pastor Bredon. Passing it to Tom.
03:27: I'm Pastor of Valley Baptist Church in Higerman, Idaho, in the southern Idaho area. It'd be a blessing to see you on Sundays.
03:33: However, my family and I, we are moving to southern California, as I have accepted a call to go be the pastor of Grace Bible Church in Moorpark, California.
03:42: It's in Ventura County. If you live in that area, go plant yourself in that church. And I would love to see you come
03:48: December time. I am a co -host with these yahoos who make fun of me and also reformed ex -Mormon.
03:55: Also, we have an amazing conference coming up in February. Tullah and Tullahoma, Tennessee on sanctification.
04:04: It's because you say it so much and you can't say your own homerun. Go ahead,
04:12: Tom. My name is Tom. I'm with Grace Bible Church in Birney.
04:18: I'm an evangelist there. We go out on the weekends, every Friday and Saturday, or actually a lot of times
04:23: Saturday. This next weekend, we're actually going to have a special guest. So the reformed ex -Mormon, he's going to be coming out.
04:30: Yes, yes, yes. Braden Patterson is going to come to Texas to the free land for about a week.
04:37: He's going to hang out with me. We're excited about having him down. Anyway, so we're out of Grace Bible Church in Birney.
04:43: We do evangelism and excited to have Braden come down. He had a great Lord's Day today.
04:48: It was good stuff. We haven't gotten to that yet. Tom, how was your
04:56: Lord's Day? Me? Yes. You already started running your mouth. Okay.
05:02: Yeah, yeah. So the evening service was really good. He's not a pastor as of right now, but he's graduated from the
05:10: Master's Seminary, I think back in 2009 or 2005 -ish.
05:17: He is pastor to churches, and right now he's just a member of our church. It was his first time up in the pulpit.
05:23: I'm talking Tom Pennington style preaching. I mean, good stuff.
05:29: This guy was solid. He was preaching. So we're going through how to grow as a Christian in the evenings, and it was fantastic.
05:38: His name is Terry Riley, and it was really good stuff. We had a great time, great time of worship.
05:46: And then this morning, we have another pastor. His name is
05:51: Owen Lewis. He preached this morning on, I can't remember. What was it this morning? Shoot, I can't remember.
05:59: My wife just reminded me, but I forgot. Anyway, but it was a good time.
06:06: Good Lord's Day. Very good. How was your Lord's Day, Brandon? I was thinking about his bestie.
06:18: To the home. Brandon. Wow, thanks a lot, JP. I mean,
06:23: I was over here reading this message that I sent to him about him hanging out with his bestie, Brandon. Brandon Scalp, that is.
06:30: Who, me? Yeah, you didn't see that message I sent you? No, I didn't see it.
06:38: Erica, don't say that. How dare you? Well, it was a blessed
06:45: Lord's Day today. I'll have you guys know that Brandon Scalp is a good dude.
06:51: Yes, he is. 100%. 100%. Brandon Scalp, though, that's just messed up.
06:57: You can't tie two people's names together like that. Brandon Scalp.
07:03: Yeah, that's messed up. So, this Lord's Day was great. I got to preach on Galatians chapter 4, verse 8 to 11.
07:12: Just talking about the freedom we have in Christ and how if we seek to be more and more conformed to the image of the world, that we're turning our back on the freedom that Christ has given us.
07:24: And we're seeking to be enslaved back to the elemental things of this world.
07:29: We're seeking to be enslaved by things that are by nature, not God. So, it was a blessing to be able to go through the text.
07:46: Thanks, Tom. So, I'm a little confused.
07:52: Before I tell you how my Lord's Day went, I'm a little confused. Erica, are you really red?
07:58: Is Erica red? That's what I need to know. Is Erica red? Because...
08:04: Erica Harris, you're not red. Is this Sam on Erica's Facebook?
08:10: That's what he said. No. I was like, she's been really active on here.
08:21: She's never active. She's just saying things.
08:27: My wife is very active. She comes out and gets spiders and everything. Dude, last show was crazy.
08:33: I know, man. Like, I want to see how you keep me on this way.
08:41: Oh, no. Oh, look. That's for you.
08:47: I'm going to go ahead and put this up there. Yep. So, Debbie, you want to bring it out real quick?
08:54: And I'll show everybody what Jeff made. Jeff made a beautiful KJB Bible because my wife loves
09:00: King James. And she just loves the way it reads.
09:06: I think who else likes the King James on our show? Well, probably
09:11: Michelle. Oh, yeah. It's our tagline. It's part of our name.
09:17: Right, yeah. Anyway, beautiful Bible. It really is. Yeah, there's Michelle. So, one of the most beautiful Bibles I've seen.
09:25: It's in black pebble, brown ribbons. Those five beautiful ribbons on a scholar
09:33: Bible. What was the name of the scholar? Oh, hold on. Here it is. This is the
09:38: Bible that took your place in bed because you're out on the couch now? Don't get cigar smoke on it. Don't get cigar smoke on it.
09:46: Here's the Bible right here. That's nice. Got the brown ribbons. And you got the verse right there.
09:54: That is nice. And I love it. I stroke it. Smells good.
10:06: We're so weird. I love it.
10:12: Well, my Lord's Day was really good. I taught Sunday school.
10:18: So, we're working through a curriculum on grace. And we're looking at the different facets of grace.
10:24: And so, it was really good. And then the worship service was really good.
10:30: Pastor Cal, he brought it home with the song selection. And then
10:36: I preached on John 14, 7 -14,
10:42: I think it was. Yeah, 7 -14. Knowing Jesus. I called to know the
10:49: Son. And we're going to spend three weeks on that spot right there.
10:55: And so, it was really good. And then afterwards, we always have a full meal after every service.
11:01: And then I was able to meet with someone today after church. We got a new family that's seeking membership.
11:09: And the wife of the new family is seeking baptism. So, next
11:15: Lord's Day, Lord willing, we'll be holding our under -tissue bubbles.
11:22: And working through the membership process. That's awesome. I got to tell you guys about the evangelism.
11:28: So, yesterday, we went out to evangelism at Bernie Market Days. Once a month, we go to Bernie Market Days.
11:36: And it's kind of like a flea market, like in a park. And so, it's a pretty good crowd and everything.
11:43: But yesterday, they were having a car show. Couldn't even park. Cops everywhere. I mean, bikers up and down the street and everything.
11:52: Barely could get in over there. So, I get over there. Never had a problem doing evangelism at this park at all.
11:59: And I mean, a thousand people at least, plus. And we get on the corner. First time anybody's ever put their hands on me.
12:08: First time it actually got in my face. Yeah, old man muscle.
12:14: And I turned around and I was sharing the gospel. And he starts coming. He grabs my arm and yanks me back away.
12:21: And all I could think, I was like, and I looked at him. I said, man, I'm not the one, man.
12:26: I said, don't put your hands on me and everything. And we continued to share the gospel.
12:32: And then another guy comes up, gives me a card with a pentagram on it. And yells out, hail
12:38: Satan. Big time opposition. Just not something that we're used to out in Bernie at all.
12:45: But my response to him was this. I was like, you know what, bro? I said, you know, God will even have mercy on you.
12:51: If you would just turn away from your sins. And it was a blessing to be out there. Evangelism is fun.
12:58: And people are attending our church from evangelism, from the events. So I wanted to give that report too.
13:04: So if you want to be a part of a church that evangelizes and goes out, come to Grace Bible Church of Bernie.
13:11: We'd love to have you. Come join the team. Had to put that in. For sure, for sure.
13:18: Me and Red went out yesterday. And we had a blast, man. And yeah, we had some really good gospel conversations.
13:26: And had, I think, three ladies hear the gospel.
13:33: Call them the name of the Lord. Red would have to tell you that story, though. I wasn't. I was ministering to some other young ladies.
13:43: Or I don't remember. There were so many people stopped last minute. I was trying to get done by 1 .30 because we had a shindig to go to.
13:50: And 1 .25, no one's stopping at all. And at 1 .25,
13:57: just cars started rolling in. It was back -to -back, back -to -back conversation. Same corner you always go to, right?
14:05: So we've been switching it up a little bit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, man, that's awesome.
14:10: It was good. The Lord, you know. Be faithful.
14:16: Yeah, for sure. I spent yesterday. I heard a rumor, though, that Braden Patterson is not the best shooter in his family.
14:27: No, I heard that too. I would agree with you on that. Yesterday I spent the whole day doing all the heavy lifting for my wife, but she had the hair -trigger finger that just blopped the deer.
14:38: I went deer hunting yesterday, found a little buck in the morning, and I didn't want to shoot it.
14:45: I called a friend up. He didn't want to shoot it. My wife thought about it, long and hard about it, and she was like,
14:51: I want to go shoot it. So we went back out in the afternoon. It was still there. It was really cool.
14:56: She had baby bear, baby Nehemiah on her back the whole time. And so it was a family hunt.
15:02: Got to sneak up 200 yards away from the deer. 200 -yard shot. My wife made a 200 -yard shot with a gun she's never shot before.
15:09: Let me say that again. A 200 -yard shot with a gun that she's never shot before. 6 '5 Creedmoor.
15:15: And she dropped the deer first shot. It was amazing. It was so cool to see. It was her first time ever killing an animal, ever shooting an animal.
15:24: And it was awesome. Uphill both ways. Both ways.
15:30: Trying to pay the kids, man. Dude, it was cool. After it was all gutted and skinned, we weighed it, and it was 87, 88 pounds.
15:39: Of meat? Yeah, including the bones. Wow. That's still a good amount for a little buck like it was.
15:46: It was awesome. She's a little angry right now. Look at that. Hey! I love you, deer.
16:01: You better watch how you talk, bro. I need a hi from my wife.
16:07: She can shoot a deer. She can shoot a deer from 200 feet. You better watch out.
16:13: You better behave. I'll come to Texas early, Tom. You better go home and do the dishes, boy.
16:20: It was awesome. Honestly, it's probably going to go down in our life as one of the most memorable things
16:27: I got to do with my wife was to go and hunt with kids, with a kid on her back, a one -year -old on her back, shooting a deer.
16:34: Don't you have a video of that? I do, yeah. Are you allowed to show that? I can see if I can figure out.
16:41: Yeah, go ahead and keep on chatting. I'll get it pulled up here. Do you all want to jump on a question while you're pulling it up and watch it after a question?
16:54: Yeah. Oh, I hit that one by accident. What did you hit? I don't know.
17:02: Hey, Emily. All right. Do we have any questions? There was one at the very beginning.
17:10: I know. We have so many. Okay, here it is. You want me to play this real fast?
17:17: Yeah, play it, and we'll get to the question afterwards. All right. Let me put this up here real quick. If you have any questions, comments, or questions.
17:24: Yeah, start putting comments in. Yeah, we're just going to do something. Brady wanted to talk about something stupid, and it didn't go anywhere.
17:32: It made Jeff's butt hurt. Emily, look. Jeff didn't like it.
17:39: Jeff did not like it. I wasn't the only one. Where's the video? I'm getting it pulled up.
17:46: I thought you had it pulled up. I'm getting it pulled up. There it is. Get it pulled up, Jeff. Go ahead and pull it up now.
17:54: All right, let's pull. All right, so it's going to be small for you guys just because it's in the photo.
18:01: It's for a phone, or the video is for a phone. You ready? Okay, that's a good shot right there if you can see it.
18:15: Pull. Good job, guys. So right here, that picture.
18:22: I can't go back. Dang it. She's got the baby on her back. The deer is right in this area,
18:28: I think. You'll see it drop here on the shot. I don't see any deer. Oh, there it was. It was right there. Dang it.
18:34: Pull and push. Pause here. Give me a second. Good job, guys. There it is. Baby on her back.
18:42: Look at that. Then this is the deer. It's going to be right here.
18:47: There it is. Right above the cursor. Yeah, that's a far walk. Boom. Went down.
18:56: It was pretty sweet. It was pretty awesome. That was awesome, definitely. I just got the skull all done as far as, well, cleaning it off.
19:08: I got to still peroxide it, but it's looking good. It's looking real good. That's cool.
19:14: All right. Let's get to some questions. Man, it's not letting me pull that question up now. It's messed up.
19:19: I can't get to it. Hold on. Let me see if I can get to it. I can read it.
19:25: I'm right here. I know, but I'd like to be able to pull it up. Hold on.
19:30: I'm going to paste it. Ain't that a load of garbage?
19:46: There you go. All right. Now, this was not asked by even if none.
19:54: It was asked by Clint Sloan. Clint Sloan. Sloan. Sounds like he's trying to pick a fight.
20:01: Bruh, you don't want none of this. I'm telling you, son. He's watching the floor. He's watching the floor.
20:07: This is a legitimate question. This is a legitimate question. From a Baptist covenant theology person. Look at Jeff get all bowed up.
20:15: Well, yeah, you want too many. From a Baptist covenant theology perspective, what does
20:22: Deuteronomy 36 mean when it says that God will circumcise their hearts and the hearts of their descendants also see
20:31: Isaiah 44, 3 and 59, 21. I have Deuteronomy 30 here, verse 6, and I'll read it real quick.
20:39: And it says in the Lord your God. Hold on. Hold on. Before you read it, let's all three grab a passage and we'll read them.
20:44: I'll do. I'll do Deuteronomy 30 since I already have it up. All right. I'll do 15.
20:50: Isaiah 59, 21. Which one do you want me to do? Isaiah 44, 3.
20:57: See how professional we are? We actually each have a verse to read.
21:05: We are systematic reformed Baptists. That's right. The real deal.
21:11: Holy field. Okay. So Deuteronomy 30, verse 6 says this.
21:20: And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring so that you will love the
21:27: Lord with all of your heart, with all of your soul that you may live. And the question was from a
21:37: Baptist covenant theology perspective, what does Deuteronomy 36 mean when it says that God will circumcise their hearts and the hearts of their descendants?
21:45: So, well, I think first you have to look at what is, what does it mean to have a circumcised heart? And we would say that this is the regeneration that's given in the new covenant.
21:57: So this is new covenant language given to the old covenant people.
22:06: I mean, over and over, God calls them to circumcise their heart. He calls them to do something that they cannot do.
22:15: Regeneration is God circumcising our heart. It's that heart transplant that we read in Ezekiel 36.
22:25: So we have to first recognize that. Right. And then also we would want to recognize who is this talking to?
22:32: This is talking, this would, in Deuteronomy 30, it would be talking to God's covenant people, Israel, at that point in time.
22:38: Right. We would agree with that, that God circumcised your heart. But then he goes, and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the
22:49: Lord your God with all of your heart and your soul and your mind. So this is talking about God's covenant people,
22:54: Israel, at that point in time. Would you guys agree with that? Yes. Yeah. So it's first important, like first things first, he's speaking to the covenant people of Israel.
23:04: He's just given them the law. Right. Right. And was you going to say something?
23:11: Yeah. So if you go back to the previous chapter in 29, so this is, this is the explaining of the law being given to the people as they are going into the promised land.
23:20: So they are, are hearing the words of Moses right here for, of God, of course.
23:26: But in chapter 29, just a couple of verses, just to point out in verse 21, and the Lord will single him out from all the tribes of Israel for calamity and courts with the curses of the covenant written in this book of the law.
23:40: So, okay. So this is talking about a covenant law right here. So then you go down later.
23:46: It says all the nations, verse 24, verse 23, the land will be burned out.
23:51: Verse 24, all the nations will say, why has the Lord done this to this land? Verse 25, then the people will say, let's keep on with that one.
24:01: It is because they abandoned the covenant of the Lord, the God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt and go down to verse 29.
24:13: And let's actually do 28 and 29. It says, and the Lord uprooted them from their land in anger and fury and great wrath and cast them into another land as they are this day.
24:25: The secret to the Lord, our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
24:38: Keep on reading and go all the way through verses one, two and three. I'll just pause here and just say that this is speaking in the context of what's going on here.
24:47: And I want to pause here and just ask you guys, I'll keep on reading here in a moment. Tom and Jeff, do you have to obey the law in order to stay a covenant and grace member?
24:58: Do I have to obey the law to stay? Yep. Or to enter into and stay within.
25:05: Do you have to obey law? So am I bound by the law? No, there's a long gospel distinction.
25:12: So I'm not bound by the law. Christ fulfilled the law in my place. So this is specifically talking about the covenant of works people,
25:20: Israel, right here. That's where I'm trying to go with this. This is something that people can lose covenant status, gain covenant status based off of obedience.
25:29: Verse one. And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curses, which I have set before you and you call them to mind among all the nations where the
25:38: Lord, your God has driven you and return to the Lord, your God and you and your children and obey his voice.
25:45: And all that I command you today with all your heart, all your soul, then the
25:50: Lord, your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you. And he will gather you again from all the peoples where the
25:56: Lord, your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven from the
26:01: Lord, your God will gather you. And from there, he will take you. And the Lord, your God will bring you unto the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it and he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.
26:15: Who is the only one? And this sounds like to me that there's some conditions here.
26:21: Absolutely. And let's ask this question. Yep. Who is the only one that has completely kept
26:28: God's law? And was a descendant of Israel, Jesus Christ.
26:35: That's right. Who are the offspring, plural, of Abraham through faith?
26:41: Spiritual Israel. Or circumcised of the heart. So this is two -tier typology, right?
26:48: The people there were obedient in some cases, disobedient in others. They were blessed when they were obedient.
26:54: They were cursed when they weren't. This is ultimately fulfilled in Christ Jesus. And this is why we would see language from Hosea out of Egypt.
27:04: I have called my son. You go to Matthew and it's applied directly and ultimately to Christ.
27:10: You go to Romans 9 and there's a quotation from Hosea chapter 2 about Israel, Old Testament Israel.
27:16: But yet Paul's applying it to the church. Right. So that's the other thing.
27:23: Within that covenant then, it was made with the nation, the covenant people of Israel.
27:29: But it was a physical, temporal promise that pointed to a better spiritual promise.
27:36: And if we want to be honest, the answer given right there also covers the other two verses as well.
27:46: If you just want to be super honest, right? Because what it's speaking of is two -tier typology. You look at it in its type, antitype.
27:54: The circumcision of the heart is regeneration. It can be nothing else.
28:01: If you want to be real literal when it comes to offspring and stuff like that, then you have to say that this is speaking of the offspring of Abraham, the physical descendants of Abraham.
28:12: But when you start talking about the circumcision of the heart and the Holy Spirit and stuff like that, we know that this is to those who are in Christ.
28:21: In Christ, right? And the Holy Spirit is never promised to our offspring the same way as people would take it.
28:29: So in Acts chapter 2, the promise that's for your children isn't the seed.
28:39: The promise isn't the sign of the covenant. It's the offspring. It's the
28:44: Holy Spirit. And so God has never promised to give every one of our descendants, our physical children, the
28:56: Holy Spirit. That's right. The Holy Spirit comes to those who believe in Jesus Christ. You cannot baptize them, and they get the
29:04: Holy Spirit. It's for those who repent and believe. And that only takes place in regeneration.
29:11: I stuttered there a little bit. Forgive me. That's okay. You did good, Jeff. You've done good.
29:17: But I think that answer basically covers everything. The verse that I have, it says,
29:23: As for me, this is my covenant with them, says the Lord, which brings up the spirit.
29:28: My spirit that is upon you and my words that I have put into your mouth shall not depart out of your mouth or out of the mouth of your offspring or out of the mouth of your children's offspring, says the
29:43: Lord, from this time forth and forevermore. If you want to take that to who it's speaking of, the physical descendants of Abraham, we know that that's ended.
29:52: Right. It's ended. Right. God's covenant people are those who have faith in Christ.
29:59: Amen. We are under a better covenant. We're under a better covenant. You cannot. Listen, I wish that I could repent and believe for my children.
30:06: I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't sprinkle water on them and the Holy Spirit come and possess them.
30:12: I can't do it. They have to repent and believe. And to say the way, man,
30:18: I just, I just think you're, you know, you're not being, you're not being accurate with the scripture. You're not handling the scriptures the way scriptures need to be handled.
30:25: Right. Yeah. I just love it. Talking about federal headship. And I think dear Romney 30.
30:31: The whole point of it is that, I mean, go to Romans three and how Paul handles. No one's righteous.
30:37: No, no one. The scripture has shut up. Everyone understand the law was given to hold, hold you accountable.
30:44: Right. So the law reveals that you have fallen short of the standard of God.
30:50: And so to be honest with you, let's look at Deuteronomy three with that in mind, that no one's righteous.
30:56: No, not one. Should anyone have entered the land? No. Should anyone have been around a spring of water, let alone live in any sort of promise state of God in that day physically?
31:09: No. So anytime that they were, guess what? It was God's grace being extended to people.
31:15: Absolutely. And so that's where we would say that, that even though this is a clear covenant of works per the previous chapter that says they did not obey.
31:23: They did not continue that you're in this, this foreign land till today. They are not entering the land yet.
31:29: These are conditional covenants that are being given to people that have aspects of grace within them.
31:34: But by definition, they are a covenant of works. Right. And the fact of the matter is they couldn't.
31:41: They couldn't. By the works of the law, no man will be justified. It's impossible. We need a substitute.
31:49: And we can look at the book of Hebrews in a way that Paul in Hebrews, how he deals over and over and over and over again with all these
31:56: Old Testament laws, prophecies, ceremonies, the land. Right. It was clear that they were looking to a land that was not of this world whose maker was
32:07: God. Right. Like they were continually looking forward.
32:13: Speaking of the heroes of the faith in chapter 11, they were looking not on the physical land.
32:19: That's not what saved them was their hope in physical land. It was the trust in God to bring about something better.
32:25: You know, it's interesting we bring this up because not too long ago, a friend of mine was just calling me and asking me about the hermeneutic.
32:33: And he was listening to Abner Chow, who is the president of the Master's Seminary. And he goes to the literal, grammatical, historical hermeneutic.
32:47: And he would say that this is the historic hermeneutic from all time. And we would agree with that.
32:52: But what they've left out are very important aspects of hermeneutics and its typology.
32:58: What else was it pointing to? And then also Scripture interpreting Scripture, looking at this through the lens of the
33:06: New Testament. What is the New Testament revealed to us in a clearer way than the
33:12: Old Covenant had? It wasn't revealed to them the same way it has been revealed to us.
33:19: First Peter mentions that, you know, and I read it today, is that they realized that what they were writing was not to themselves, but to you, to us.
33:32: And it was a mystery to them. And, you know, even angels long to look into this.
33:38: And Paul speaks about this in Ephesians 3. Ephesians 2 and Ephesians 3 of how he takes the two and he makes them one and that this was the mystery of Scripture, so on and so forth.
33:51: Like, like, what are we doing here? I feel like we've answered that. And so Fred has asked two questions.
33:59: And before I so. So, Fred, I see there's a little debate taking place here and we're going to answer these two questions, but we're not going to make the night about you, my friend.
34:08: But all the Calvinist questions. So, so, so the first one was this one.
34:15: What do y 'all do with Romans 10, 13? My Bible says, whosoever calls upon the name of the
34:22: Lord shall be saved. And then he goes to this one. And John 12, 32.
34:29: If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all man unto me. Does all mean all?
34:35: All does all mean all. I'm not a Calvinist nor an Armenian. No, you're one of them.
34:42: I believe in God's sovereignty. If you're not, not really. Also, that man has
34:49: FW. I don't know what that means. So that man has.
34:55: Okay. Man has free will. All right. So, so, and Romans 13 and Romans 10, 13, whoever calls upon the name of the
35:04: Lord shall be saved. I want you to know that we believe in our Bible as well. And, and we believe that whoever calls upon the name of the
35:12: Lord will be saved. However, only those whom the father chose will call upon the name of the
35:18: Lord. Absolutely. When it comes to John 12, 32, you need to understand the context.
35:24: So in the context, some, so, so, so, so some Greeks are seeking
35:29: Jesus. So Jesus is in Jerusalem. He's doing these miraculous deeds. They, these
35:37: Greeks are wanting to see Jesus. They approach his apostles. Some of the apostles approached Jesus. I said, Hey, these
35:42: Greeks are coming to see you. And his answer was when I am lifted up.
35:48: Okay. So his answer was, let me find it real quick. I don't have my, where's my preaching
35:55: Bible. I got it marked my preaching Bible. Okay. Here he goes. I've been preaching Bible. I got to have different Bibles.
36:03: Yeah. So, so, so let me read it real quick. It says, and after saying these things, hold on.
36:10: Oh, it's 12, right? Yeah. 12, 13. Forgive me. Okay. So now among those who were up, went up to worship at the feast were some
36:19: Greeks. So some came to fill up who was at Bethsaida in Galilee and asked him, sir, we wish to see
36:26: Jesus. So you have some Greeks seeking to see Jesus. Philip went and told Andrew and Andrew and Philip went and told
36:32: Jesus and Jesus answered them. The hour has come for the son of man to be glorified.
36:38: Speaking of his resurrection. Right. All right. So he, so, so he answers that they want to see you.
36:45: He says, the hour has come for the son of man to be glorified. So just skipping down a little bit, cause I don't want to read all of this verse 30 and I mean, verse 31 says now the judgment of this world.
36:58: Now is the judgment of this world. Now the ruler of this world be cast out. Speaking of Satan, Braden.
37:04: And I, when I am lifted up from the earth will draw all people to myself. So the all people here is speaking in the context of Jew and Gentile.
37:13: Not every single person. So not all inclusive, but all without distinction.
37:19: Correct. Yes. Right. Yeah. So all there. So it's talking about all of who he's speaking of and it's
37:27: Jew and Gentile. Right. But who all that the father gives to Jesus, John six 37 will come to Jesus.
37:35: That's right. I hope that makes sense. And then also when we consider
37:42: Romans 10, so none of us in this chat, nor on this show, know who the elect are.
37:50: Right. None of us know who's going to call out on upon the name of the Lord. So it is quite fitting to say anyone who also ever, everyone who calls out on the name of the
38:01: Lord will be saved. And I can say that with confidence. Why? Because I could say Christ a hundred percent died for them.
38:07: And his sheep will hear his voice. Yeah, absolutely. Right.
38:12: Absolutely. And so, I mean, we can get super nuanced with this and go down rabbit trails that are ridiculous.
38:22: For example, did the thief on the cross who was saved, did he cry out the name of the
38:30: Lord when he was there? Or did he just look to him and say, remember me? Did he cry out the name? Was he saved?
38:35: Like, I don't know if he didn't cry out the name. You see what I'm saying? Like, we can't get too bogged down by this verse. Paul is speaking in application, and a more explicit text comes from chapter 8.
38:46: That's building off of that in chapter 10, which it was. What is chapter 8 talking about? It's the verse 29.
38:53: For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
39:00: You then go to chapter 9. What is chapter 9 talking about? The elect of God, vessels of glory versus vessels of wrath.
39:06: And what is chapter 10 talking about? How both Jew and Gentile are part of this. And then chapter 11, Jew and Gentile are part of this olive tree.
39:13: So what's Romans 10 talking about when it says anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord? He's saying it doesn't matter if you're a
39:18: Jew or a Gentile. If you come to Christ, you are saved.
39:25: One of the most important understandings you can have concerning the Scriptures, especially in the
39:32: New Covenant. The Old Covenant is a prophesying and a mystery about Gentiles coming to the
39:39: Lord, right? Israel is supposed to be a light to the nations, so on and so forth. The New Testament is that God has made a way for the
39:47: Jew and the Gentile to become one in Christ. So when all this all stuff and everything that you see here, the distinguishing markers of it is
39:56: Jew and Gentile, not every single person. When you can understand that, you'll begin to understand the
40:02: Bible a lot better. Yeah, Michelle just pointed out a great verse too, Acts 13, 48.
40:08: And it's just, it ties everything together. As many as were appointed, actually she put ordained.
40:13: I think she's reading out of the King James, of course. As many as were appointed unto eternal life, believed.
40:21: As many as were appointed unto eternal life. The Father chose a particular people before the foundation of the world.
40:27: He sent His Son to redeem those people. He sent the Holy Spirit to draw them and to seal them.
40:34: So God has covenant together that you cannot divide the
40:42: Godhead. The Father didn't choose a particular people and then sent His Son to make salvation possible for everyone.
40:50: He sent His Son to die for that exact same people group whom the
40:56: Father chose of all nations. Yeah, so Fred, I'm not going to answer any more of this after this one.
41:07: I just want to point out, do you know the context of what you're just quoting right there?
41:13: Well, the Father's will is that none shall perish. Do you know the context?
41:20: Because, and there's two different contexts, right? You have the context in... Do it again, happy birthday,
41:28: Jeff. You have the context that's in scripture and then you have the historical, biblical context of what's taking place at that time.
41:35: And my dear brother, listen, I say this with all grace and humility. If you don't know those two contexts, you don't need to be trying to interpreting scripture.
41:45: You do not need to be trying. Because the simple fact is if God doesn't want any to perish, there's never going to come a time where the world is going to end.
41:56: Right. There's never going to come a time where the world is going to end. Like if he hasn't preordained all things,
42:04: I want to know who has. All right. Because that's the man. Right.
42:09: That's the man. And let me also say this too. I hope, Fred, I hope, Fred, that you're not a universalist, right?
42:17: Because we clearly see that that's not the teaching in the Bible. So when you're quoting from John chapter 12 and then you're quoting from 2
42:25: Peter, these things in their context have to be understood in their context.
42:30: And if John chapter 12, for example, if John chapter 12 is speaking about all people will come to know him, what does chapter 5, a chapter that comes before chapter 12, use that word as?
42:41: It says that all that the Father has given me, I will lose none, but I will raise them up on the last day.
42:47: So if we want to say chapter 12 is speaking about all people as an all, well, then we have to go to chapter 5 and say, what does drawing mean then?
42:56: And it means salvation right there. And the raising up is salvation right there. And so are all saved?
43:04: No, all are not saved. And so we again, we have to, we have to take these things in their context.
43:11: If 2 Peter is meaning that the Father is willing in a predestined type of will, well, then if anybody goes to hell, then the
43:23: Father has failed. Let me read that text. Let me read that text that he's quoting.
43:30: So I'm gonna start at verse says, but do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the
43:36: Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day.
43:42: The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but as patient toward you.
43:51: All right. So, so who's he speaking to? Who's the you here? The elect. The elect.
43:56: And he said, well, how do you know that? Go to chapter first, Peter chapter one is speaks to the elect.
44:02: And it also talks about apparent verse one. This is the second letter that I'm writing to you.
44:08: He's speaking to the elect, not wishing that any of you should perish the elect, but that you should come to, but you should reach repentance.
44:22: Right. That's right. Amen. George, George has just answered.
44:28: I don't know if you guys have another question. This one just came up that I've seen. Okay, let's pull it up.
44:41: It says when our hearts are circumcised, God changes our hearts of stone to flesh is our conviction of sin.
44:51: Seeing our sin, a part of our regeneration that that is the working of the
44:57: Holy Spirit. So, so when, when God makes a person alive by giving you a heart of flesh, he opens your eyes to see number one, your condition.
45:09: So, yeah, you're going to see your, your condition and realize that you need a savior.
45:16: So he makes you alive in all things, your, your, your, your, your heart, your, your affections, everything.
45:23: So, yes, you would, you would see who you are compared to a Holy God. And not only that, it would grieve you.
45:31: It would grieve you would be convicted and cry out for a savior. Jeff does a great job on, on Ezekiel 38.
45:42: 36, 25. He does a terrible job on chapter 38, though. 72.
45:50: I got dementia. Do you have anything you want to say about that one,
45:55: Brayden? A little bit. So just a conviction of sin doesn't always mean regeneration either.
46:02: So just adding on to what Tom said, everything that Tom said, I would say amen. And yes, and a hundred percent true.
46:08: Right. When we think, though, when I was LDS, when I was denying the finished work of Christ, when I thought
46:13: I could be a common God myself, I was convicted of sin all the time. That I was one reason why
46:20: I was doing work salvations was because I realized that I needed to do more because I fell short of the glory of God and the standard of God.
46:27: So just because there's a conviction of sin doesn't mean that the person's regenerate. Sometimes, sometimes a realization of sin can actually induce a hyper acting in sin.
46:40: Right. What you're telling me that I'm not good. Well, then I need to do more.
46:45: Well, does that save you? No, that only condemns you more. Right. I think the big thing to take away from that is not necessarily just the conviction of sin, but the obedience to the law.
46:57: Right. And so, like he talks about, he's going to put his spirit within you and it's going to cause you to obey his statutes.
47:04: And we see in the new covenant, those statutes is, you know, the ten words are fulfilled in two commandments.
47:13: Love God with all your heart and then love your neighbor as yourself. Loving God with all your heart is fulfilled by believing in the name of Jesus Christ.
47:22: Loving your neighbor and the new covenant, it's not necessary that you don't do certain things, but that you do certain things.
47:28: Right. If you love your neighbor, you're not going to steal from him. As a matter of fact, you're probably going to help him succeed in life.
47:34: And so and so these positive commands are given to us as Christians. And so and so a good, you know, and I'm not sitting here telling you to to as you live in your
47:45: Christian life, watch the food, the fruit drop off from your back and. Right. I'm saying live your life, look into Jesus Christ and other people are going to see this fruit fall from the tree.
47:54: But but but a way to truly know like what regeneration has taken place.
48:00: One, A, you're believing in Jesus Christ, B, you're loving your neighbor as yourself. Like if you're able to do these things, that's not you.
48:09: That's not you. That's the Holy Spirit within you. Right. Real quick. And I'm going to answer
48:15: Fred one more time because he just answered another follow up question. He's answered a bunch of them. Just this last one.
48:21: When the Bible talks about the elect, he says, I believe that that's Israel. He goes, hey, listen,
48:26: I'm not trying to argue at all. I'm asking. So so listen, if if Israel, if Israel is the elect and everything elect unto what?
48:38: Elect unto what? Is it damnation? Because that's what's taking place. Exactly. Yeah. So when we're talking about elect, we're talking about that God has chosen to dispense his grace on a people that didn't deserve it.
48:55: And in the old covenant time, it was made with the nation, Israel, not with individuals, with the nation, with the new covenants made individually.
49:03: Those whom he chose to dispense his grace on before the foundations of the world.
49:09: That's who the elect are. The special covenant love that he's that he demonstrated by sending his son to pay the penalty and impute
49:18: Christ's righteousness on their account. Now, what you're missing here is that he's right, right here. So he says, well,
49:24: Peter was a leader of the elect Israel, 100 percent. Right. But here's where you mess up, because the book of Revelation tells us that he's making us into a kingdom and priest.
49:35: Those who are in Christ are Israel. First Peter. I can I can walk through first Peter with you and show you that it was written to Gentiles as well as Jews.
49:44: Yes. The elect of God, Jew and Gentile. First Peter is not just a book written to Jews.
49:50: Right. Like I hope you're not a mid -ax dispensationalist. Right. And again, like, you know, you always we want to answer your questions, but but it's like when we answer something, you're trying to turn this into a debate.
50:09: Right. If you want to have a real debate, let us know. We'll have you on the show and we'll have a debate about this subject.
50:17: But we're going to try to catch other people because, like, we are reformed.
50:24: I am a true Jew. I am a spiritual descendant of Abraham.
50:30: That's right. I always push it. I always push Jeff on this a little bit.
50:35: I push anybody on this because we always like to distinguish. I am a true Jew. And that's that's distinguishing that I was born a
50:41: Gentile in Christ. I am now a child of Abraham through the promise of a
50:47: Roman chapter two does not use the language. You are a true Jew. Right. It says you have been circumcised of your heart.
50:53: You are a Jew. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I use it because there's actual still physical descendants of Abraham around.
51:03: Sure. Yeah. And that form of Judaism, we are not. Right. Where I'm going with this, though, is that there's there's there's something
51:10: I think that goes on with Christians, is that we always have this tendency of I can't step on the toes of the Jewish descendants.
51:16: Right. Paul steps on the toes. He says, I don't even call Jesus the true
51:23: Israel. And because we are in him, our new covenant head, we are true
51:28: Israel. Maybe they'll ask some questions on replacement theology. I just don't want to hear that.
51:36: Jay, Jay, how old is me? Who? Jay, how old? He asked a little while back.
51:43: I think we missed it. He's a question. Right. And how do you think the adjustment from Idaho to SoCal will be since you are an outdoorsman?
51:49: Well, understanding that it is the Lord who convicts one's hearts and directs his steps. I just got to do it.
51:55: If God calls you somewhere, the Great Commission doesn't say go and be go and preach the gospel.
52:01: Go make disciples and calmly situations. He doesn't say to do it in ways that it's as easy or the areas that you can go and live the life that you want to live.
52:10: He says, go and make disciples. And so I'm I'm super honored to be called to the
52:15: Ventura area, to Grace Bible Church in Moor Park. Will I go hunting?
52:21: Absolutely. Will it be harder and more difficult? Absolutely. But that's that's OK. God has called me there.
52:27: I'm really excited about that. And so is my family. Here's a question here, unless you have one.
52:34: I was going to pull up your wife's question. OK, that was the one I was going to go ahead. When Christ was when
52:44: Christ was when Christ was risen and appeared to the disciples, was he already in his glorified body at that point or still in the natural body he had before the crucifixion?
52:59: So my answer would be quickly is that he was in the incorruptible body at that point.
53:08: So glorified body. So a glorified body. Yes, I would agree. I think
53:13: Christ is the one that's going to bear, you know, and I think there's a reason for this.
53:19: I think Christ is always going to bear the marks of our salvation. And the reason I think that that's the case is when we are in the new heavens, the new earth is spoken about in Revelation.
53:30: And 21 and so on. Imagine being there in a renewed garden state with access to the tree of life.
53:41: And and let's just say Adam is there. Let's say Adam is saved. I know there's some contention there to potentially if Adam was saved or not.
53:47: Let's just say Adam is saved. And we look over and we see Adam and he has no wounds on his body.
53:53: And then we look over at our true new federal head and he still bears the wounds of our salvation. That is going to be beyond profound and something to worship and glorify
54:04: God for for a long time to come. And I think that's why you see doubting Thomas and Jesus in a glorified, resurrected state.
54:14: He still bears it. And it's confirming to Thomas about who he is and what Christ has done. I think one day you and I will be able to put our own fingers in the nail prints.
54:25: Here's one. Love it.
54:39: Thoughts? First Corinthians 15. There we go. 100 percent.
54:45: I was going to go first Corinthians 15. And I also like the Revelation 20. Right. Yeah.
54:51: For sure. Yeah. And I would also say 11 as well. But it doesn't necessarily like, you know, like it pictures the thousand years as one hundred and twenty something.
55:01: One hundred and something. One thousand. I don't know. A bunch of days. 1260. 1260 days.
55:09: You know how you quote something so much. And then for a split second, you just forget. That's what just happened.
55:15: I will start at verse 51 when you guys 51 ish. I would go back earlier than that.
55:20: Verse 20 to 26. And then to the 50 texts that you were talking about.
55:27: 50 to 50. Read the 20 and I'll read the 50. Yeah, this is it.
55:33: But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. The first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
55:39: For as by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as an Adam all died, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
55:47: But each in his own order. Christ, the first fruits. Then at his coming, those who belong to Christ.
55:54: So when Christ comes is when there's this resurrection that takes place. Then comes the end.
56:01: Listen, every pre meal is putting a thousand years. Right there between Druze 24 and 25.
56:06: That's right. But that's not the case for Paul. Paul says, then comes the end. After this resurrection takes place, then the end is there.
56:14: He delivers the kingdom. What is he delivering? The kingdom to God, the father, after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
56:22: For he must reign until he's put all enemies under his feet. For the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
56:28: And Tom's going to read that here in just a second, a little bit more on that. But the point of this is that he's delivering an accomplished covenant kingdom people to God, the father.
56:39: Because all the elect have come to know him. That's why it's ended. And that's why when he comes back, those that are resurrected are his.
56:47: And he's able to deliver the full kingdom to the father. There's not one lacking. There's not two lacking. It's fully there.
56:53: It's fully realized. However, and this is when he destroys all rule and rule and power outside of this kingdom.
57:00: And it's important to note in there that the premillennial doesn't matter if it's historical or dispensational, is saying that there's still sin and rules and powers against Christ for a thousand years.
57:11: When Paul says, then comes the end, he delivers the kingdom and destroys all rule and power at that point.
57:17: It just doesn't fit in Scripture. All mill is the only one. PASTOR MIKE I also like what he said.
57:25: The full kingdom is realized. And the reason why he's saying full is because the kingdom has already been inaugurated in.
57:33: The kingdom of heaven is at hand. And then there's a consummation where it comes into fruition, where it's fulfilled, but it comes realized in its entirety.
57:42: So in verse, starting at verse 52 in 1st Corinthians 15, it says in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, imperishable.
57:57: And we shall be changed for this perishable body, body must be put on, must put on imperishable.
58:05: And this mortal body must put on immorality. And so it says in verse 54, when the perishable puts on the imperishable and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up in victory.
58:23: Oh, death, where is your victory? Oh, death, where is your sting? And so you look at the premillennial, the implications of millennialism.
58:31: Christ come back, comes back. He judges the earth and yet He comes back. We all are raised to death and we have our glorified bodies.
58:39: Now we know that when we are saved right now, that we are saved from the penalty of sin and we are saved from the power of sin.
58:49: We have that now already, but the day is going to come in our glorified bodies when we will be saved from suffering in the very presence of sin.
59:00: In the premillennial schema, you're surrounded by people in their natural bodies when you come back to earth with the saints in a corruptible earth.
59:11: That doesn't fit with what I just read right here at all. It is an impossibility to have a premillennial literal kingdom on earth.
59:21: That's right. Yeah, especially if you want to look at it from that dispensational point of view that the church will be raptured off of the earth.
59:28: My dear friends, if the church is ever raptured off of the earth, guess what? There isn't no
59:34: Christianity. Right. It's the end of Christianity.
59:40: Who's witnessing to these people left on earth? Don't give me a John MacArthur thing about there's going to be television shows with people preaching.
59:50: No, there isn't. No, there isn't. The earth is raptured.
59:55: Revelation 23. Rapture is the end of Christianity. Well, even on this rock,
01:00:05: I have built my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. If there's a day when the church isn't here, isn't the gates of Hades prevailing against the church in that sense?
01:00:16: I don't know. It opens up a lot of areas of issue, I think.
01:00:22: It does. The implications of dispensationalism and premillennialism is pretty rough to get past.
01:00:28: Aumil, with the two categories of this age and the age to come, just sets everything up so perfectly and so nicely in Scripture.
01:00:35: It just harmonizes everything together. I think Jeff is going to read from Revelation right now, and it just makes so much sense.
01:00:44: Well, I was just going to say, for the simple fact that you're talking about a kingdom,
01:00:49: Revelation says that we are the kingdom, right? Chapter 5, beginning of verse 9, it says,
01:00:58: And they sung a new song, saying, Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe, every language, and every people and nation.
01:01:15: And you have made them, speaking of that people from every nation, you have made them a kingdom and a priest to God, and they shall reign on the earth.
01:01:28: Right? Yeah. Like that's now. Amen. There's a greater reign coming when
01:01:36: Christ returns, right? And the new heavens and the new earth collide.
01:01:44: Yeah. Right. Y 'all are getting me jacked up on Mountain Dew right now. So here's my question.
01:01:52: Real quick, I just want to say, when people talk about the kingdom of God, like a lot of them say, well, it's not the church.
01:02:01: Brother, read the Bible. It says that you made them, speaking of every people and tribe, a kingdom.
01:02:09: The people are a kingdom and a priest. We are a kingdom without walls, without borders, from every tribe and every nation and every language.
01:02:20: We are the kingdom. Well, even Revelation 1, 6, and made us a priest to his
01:02:27: God and father, to him be the glory and dominion forever and ever. It says it over and over and over again in Revelation, and I want to say it uses it in three different ways.
01:02:35: It says it in the past tense. He has made us. It says it in the current.
01:02:44: Oh, what am I trying to say? The present tense that he is making us, and then as it in the future tense that he will make us.
01:02:52: And so this is an already not yet principle that the Amil holds to, that none of the other eschatological positions
01:02:59: I think hold to correctly at all. The Amil is the only one that says this, that the kingdom is already, and then it is not yet as in the sense that we are waiting for Christ to return and make all things new.
01:03:11: We're not waiting for a kingdom to fall, though it is going to fall.
01:03:17: But all these things that people are waiting for, and I would include free meals and post meals, are waiting for something future to take place.
01:03:24: We're saying we have those blessings now. Live in now. I was preaching at church today.
01:03:31: Everybody's wanting to see the physical risen Christ. Revelation tells us that he's with us now as we gather.
01:03:37: As you gather on the Lord's day, Jesus is there. I made mention, I was like, listen, if we knew yesterday that Jesus will be in our service today in the flesh, no one would have missed church.
01:03:50: No one. I said, I don't care what was wrong with you. You wouldn't have missed church. I said, but however, because we have to believe this by faith, people missed the service today.
01:03:59: Yeah. Right? Book of Revelation chapter 1 and 2 tells us that Jesus is walking among the lampstands and that the church is the lampstand.
01:04:09: Jesus was at covenant reform Baptist church today. I also want to point, just to build up on what
01:04:18: Braden was saying on the already and not yet. In Ephesians chapter 2, it says, but God being rich in mercy, starting at verse 4, being rich in mercy because of his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, sins made us alive together with Christ by grace you've been saved.
01:04:34: Here it is. And he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
01:04:41: Now, I don't know about you guys, but my hiney is sitting right here. But this text right here says that he's seated with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come, he might show his immeasurable riches of grace and kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.
01:05:00: And so it's the already and not yet. We're raised up with him. We're seated with him already, but not yet.
01:05:08: We're still here, not in our glorified bodies. Here's one that I think we should.
01:05:16: I like this one. I think we should answer this one too. Yeah. It's a great question.
01:05:22: Yeah. There's several places I would go, and I would just want to read it out loud first.
01:05:28: OK, what scripture would you direct someone to who has been through spiritual attacks and has and have affected them physically and mentally?
01:05:39: I would want to. Of course, you need to be in a local church with a pastor who loves you and cares for you.
01:05:45: That's the first thing I would want to say. So go if you're not already part of a local body, go be a part of a local body.
01:05:51: Talk with your pastor. Let him shepherd you. Let him care for you. Let him just speak to your soul on this matter.
01:05:57: But I would say in my mind, just things that when I read your question for the two places that came to mind.
01:06:03: Galatians chapter six, verse 17, it says, from now on, let no one cause me trouble for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
01:06:13: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirits, brothers. Amen. And when you go to the book of Philippians, Philippians is written when
01:06:22: Paul is in jail and it's a book that is known as the book of joy. Paul was able to go to a place that was of persecution.
01:06:32: And according to Galatians, he was receiving marks for his testimony of Christ. He was being tortured in this sense.
01:06:40: And so Paul bears the scars of his testimony and he counts all these things with joy and happiness to be suffering for the kingdom of God.
01:06:50: So if you're being if you're being persecuted right now, whatever that would be and whatever that would look like you have.
01:06:56: I would say you have two options. Either you can handle them poorly or you can handle them in a way that glorifies
01:07:02: Christ and loves loves him in the process, keeping your eyes focused on him. And I would I would also tell you to, of course, go to the book of Job and just see the persecutions of Job and how he continued to have a testimony of God throughout the whole thing.
01:07:14: I think is important. I would go to second Corinthians one verse six, starting at verse six.
01:07:23: So when we think about the affliction that we go through a different kind of kinds of of trials or any type of affliction that we're going through.
01:07:31: And it says this, it says, starting at verse six, but whether we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation.
01:07:38: Whether we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is working in the perseverance in the same sufferings, which we also suffer here in verse six and seven.
01:07:49: And our hope for you is that you firmly are grounded, knowing that you are sharers of our sufferings.
01:07:55: So you also are sharers in our comfort, for we do not, here it is, for we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, our affliction, which came to us in Asia.
01:08:06: I mean, this is a this is a bad thing. Verse eight, for we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, for our affliction, which came to us in Asia, that we were burdened excessively beyond our strength.
01:08:19: I mean, they were hurting so that we even despaired even to live.
01:08:25: Indeed, we had the sentence of death within ourselves. They didn't even want to live, you guys, but here it is.
01:08:32: We would not have confidence so that we would not have confidence in ourselves, but in the
01:08:37: God who raises the dead. When we experience affliction and suffering and pain, it's so that we do not rely on ourselves, but we depend wholly on Christ.
01:08:49: First Corinthians 2 .9. And I would and I would agree with everything that's been said here, everything, 100%.
01:08:59: But what's come to my mind, and it could be just because I've been studying this text, reading, preaching is
01:09:08: John 14. In verse in verse one, Jesus speaking to his disciples who have left everything to be with him.
01:09:19: To be with to be with Jesus, to follow Jesus, they left job, they left everything. And Jesus had just told them that he's leaving them and they're they're troubled.
01:09:30: And the first thing he says to them in verse 14 says, let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God.
01:09:37: Believe also in me. So first step to take. Is to believe in God in the same way that you believe in God by faith, believe in Jesus by faith, be a part of a local congregation who stands on scripture of truth, who who preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ, that Jesus lived the life that you could not live, that he took upon himself the punishment that you deserve for breaking
01:10:06: God's law. He was buried and on the third day rose again, according to the scriptures. Right.
01:10:12: If you haven't been baptized. Well, if you haven't repented of your sins, repentance and faith, call upon the name of the
01:10:19: Lord. Be baptized. Be a part of a local church. Be baptized. Partake in the
01:10:24: Lord's Supper as much as possible. These are things that God's going to use to grow you in holiness.
01:10:30: Worship is warfare. Attend service every time the doors are open in your own in your own time at home.
01:10:37: Open the Bible. Read the Bible. Read prayers. Do stuff like that. Like, like, like, fill your mind up with this.
01:10:47: So in Ephesians chapter two, it says that those that were dead in their sins, that they were that.
01:10:55: Let me read it real quick. And I want to make a comparison to how this can apply to us today.
01:11:00: And I think it's really, really good. So Ephesians chapter two. So so he says, and you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you once walked following the course of this world, following the prince and the power of the air, which is the devil, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedient, among whom you once lived right here.
01:11:21: You once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath.
01:11:30: This word, this Greek word here for mine can be translated as imagination. And so whatever.
01:11:36: So our body is following after whatever our mind is focused on.
01:11:41: Yes. Listen to me. If you feel your mind with Christ, your body is going to be chasing after Christ and doing the things that you're supposed to do with Christ.
01:11:51: It has to begin with believing in God and believing in Jesus. All right. And this worship that's warfare that's going to help you fight against these things is going to be finding a local congregation, being baptized, fellowshipping with the saints, partaking in the
01:12:04: Lord's Supper, reading and studying your Bible, reading prayers, doing stuff like that. Filling your mind with Christ.
01:12:10: Yeah. That way your body is not following after the course of the world, but it's following after the things of God.
01:12:16: That would be my counsel to you. I got another Bible verse that came to mind. I think it fits perfectly when you guys were talking.
01:12:23: I was like, oh, this is I got to read this. James chapter one verse two. Yes. Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness and let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
01:12:49: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives generously to all without reproach and it will be given to him.
01:12:58: But let him ask in faith with no doubting for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
01:13:06: For that person must not oppose that he will receive anything from the Lord for he is double minded, unstable in his ways.
01:13:14: Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass, he will pass away.
01:13:24: If you are a believer in Christ, keep your eyes on Christ and know whatever you're going through right now is a testing of your faith.
01:13:32: Count it with joy and trust that our sovereign God is at work who is making you
01:13:39: Carissa. If you have a faith, if you have faith in Christ is making you Carissa more and more conformed to the image of Christ.
01:13:48: He's conforming you to that image and praise all praise be to him. He's testing you in these things. Also, if you live in Tullahoma, Tennessee, we will be doing a conference on sanctification.
01:13:58: And this is a core principle that's going to be in my message that I'm giving at that conference.
01:14:04: So it'd be a blessing to see you there, February 2025. Yeah, I'm going to build off of what they said too.
01:14:11: And if Jeff, if you would turn to Romans 12, 1 and 2 too, and follow it up with this,
01:14:17: I think you know where I'm going to go with it. And it says, therefore, and I really like what Jeff there said. He was talking about, if you believe in Christ, if you believe in God, set your, fill your minds up to things of Christ.
01:14:31: Colossians 3 says this, therefore, if you've been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.
01:14:41: Verse 2, set your mind on the things above, not on the things of the earth.
01:14:47: Christians, so many times they have faith in Christ. They've been justified. They've been declared righteous by the
01:14:53: Father. And you're a Christian. Then you try to go out and do things in your own, in your own way.
01:14:59: You continue to find comfort in the things of the world. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things on the earth.
01:15:07: For you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, is manifested, you will be manifested with Him in glory.
01:15:17: And then 12, 1 and 2. You want me to read this? Yeah, sure. Okay. Verse 1 of Romans chapter 12.
01:15:27: I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercy of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice and acceptable to God, which is spirit, which is your spiritual worship.
01:15:41: Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. That by testing, you may discern what the will of God is.
01:15:51: And what the will of God, excuse me, discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
01:15:59: Sorry, my dyslexia kicked right in there. Verse 2 especially. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
01:16:10: All sin starts in our thinking. It starts right here. What are you fielding your mind up with?
01:16:19: Why are you being attacked with so many things? We are setting our mind. Meditate on God's word, just like Jeff was saying earlier.
01:16:26: Fill your mind up with Christ. He's worthy. He is worthy.
01:16:33: He is worthy. All right. Any other questions? Let me see.
01:16:43: I hope that's helpful, Carissa. Yeah, absolutely. Praise the Lord. Sure. My question.
01:16:50: Never mind. I'm going back. Going back. I do appreciate
01:16:55: Fred and the questions that he was asking, by the way. Yeah. It's like it's always
01:17:01: Calvinism. And again, I mean, like, so if no one's asking questions, let's go ahead and deal with something.
01:17:08: So he says like Romans chapter 5, 11 through 17 is a big one that that I would say disproves limited atonement.
01:17:20: Well, you're taking a stand, son. Let's let's see it. And that man has has has to choose to receive the gospel.
01:17:29: Same way Adam and Eve chose to do wrong. OK, so let's look at that. He's not on here anymore, so we can't we can't talk to him too much.
01:17:39: In that sense, he got off, it looks like. Well, you think it's worthwhile?
01:17:45: Let's just answer for those who are. This was this was the chapter I did on my debate with Joshua Rodriguez that we went over last week.
01:17:54: All right, well, take it away. It's super simple. Chapter four talks about how we're justified by faith.
01:18:00: Chapter five talks about the starts out talking about the physical resurrection of Christ, the the action of him coming up from the grave.
01:18:09: And then it talks about how we are dead in Adam, that death has reigned through Adam. Sin has reigned because of this.
01:18:16: So the question is, I like where Fred's going with this is, is he's putting us in the garden.
01:18:22: But that was a totally different context. You and I are not in the garden. So let's let's let's look at what
01:18:28: Romans 5, 12 through 18 is dealing with in chapter nine, verse 19 as well. Did you have a choice to suffer death?
01:18:36: Did you have a choice to be an Adam in the first place? No, you inherited these natures because he was your first federal head.
01:18:44: That's what chapter five is setting up. He's saying that you are dead in Adam. And then in verse 19, it says, but so it first says through the disobedience of one man, the many were made sinners through the obedience of one man.
01:19:01: The many will be made righteous. So I love that you went there,
01:19:07: Fred, but it actually undermines your point of limited atonement because it's teaching federal headship, which is that we are dead in Adam.
01:19:14: Everybody who suffers death is demonstrating this. So we all are touched by it. We all have that nature of it.
01:19:20: But then in chapter five, it says, but if you're represented by Christ, you will be made perfect.
01:19:27: You'll be made righteous through his obedience. You think he's coming off of verse 11? It says much more than that.
01:19:34: We also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
01:19:43: You think he's kind of. Go ahead. I think that's actually just strengthens what
01:19:49: I just said, though, because, yeah, I did too. The federal head Christ is how we've received reconciliation.
01:19:56: It's not through our choosing, not through our ability, not through our keeping. Yes. And what
01:20:01: I think he's doing, I think he's denying. He's denying that we believe that we receive.
01:20:09: Like, like, like if you hear one of us say that we did not receive Christ, then we're not Christian.
01:20:15: Right. Right. Well, we back because we were given to the father.
01:20:21: All that the father gives will come. And so we do receive. We don't accept Christ. That's a different thing.
01:20:27: Right. Accept and receive are two different things. Right. I'm totally I'm totally against people saying
01:20:33: I accepted Christ. Now, if you're in Christ, you received Christ. Yeah.
01:20:38: You don't have to accept who he is. He is who he is. You have to receive Christ and all that the father gives will come.
01:20:46: We receive Christ by faith because that faith has been given to us to receive Christ. Absolutely.
01:20:52: I mean, back up just verse eight. But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners.
01:21:00: Christ died for us and for if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son.
01:21:08: Much more now that we have we are reconciled. Shall we be saved by his life? So the question is, is when did you receive reconciliation?
01:21:17: Why you were still an enemy. Verse 10 says that doesn't sound like you were choosing it in the sense of what the
01:21:27: Arminian is trying to say. And dead men don't choose. I mean, you just. And the way we receive is by faith.
01:21:34: We receive Christ by faith. Therefore, having since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God, our
01:21:39: Lord Jesus Christ. What's this COVID question? I did not see a COVID question.
01:21:45: Oh, great COVID question. I saw it earlier. COVID question was, do you think it was wrong for churches to close down during COVID?
01:21:51: Or do you think it was a matter of conscience? I have a lot to say on this topic, but I have a lot to say, too. Well, our church was planted during COVID.
01:22:01: So our church, Valley Baptist Church, never shut its door. It always had a person in the pulpit, always preaching.
01:22:09: I came in halfway in COVID. The pastor before me was in the church during COVID.
01:22:14: It never closed its doors. I do think it is a sinful topic to close your door.
01:22:20: However, I do think that we as people can show grace to people that in a knee -jerking, even though it was wrong, even though it was not correct, did forsake the gathering.
01:22:32: However, if you did that one week, OK, that's messed up, but it was one week. If you did it two weeks, all right, well, let's see what you did in three weeks, four weeks, five weeks.
01:22:41: There's still some churches. Listen, there's some churches that never opened up their doors ever again.
01:22:47: Those are the ones that needed to stay closed. It needed to be closed, but even the churches that were closed for a year.
01:22:55: How dare you? How dare you? That's not OK. You should have recognized this four weeks in that this was wrong.
01:23:01: I would even say that if you shut down your church, if a pastor shut down the church for a period of time and they came back out and opened up.
01:23:10: You need to publicly, publicly repent. Admit you were wrong.
01:23:16: Admit you were wrong. And you're going to stand up no matter what. We are called to minister to people.
01:23:22: We are called to have church. Yeah, I would say better to shut down hospitals than to shut down the church.
01:23:28: Absolutely. I mean, that's just how I feel about it. However, I do believe that those that did shut down for a short period of time.
01:23:38: That we need to be charitable to them, give them grace as brothers, because here's the thing.
01:23:45: The world is not going to know us by some kind of outward apparel. Yamaka, turbans, whatever, burkas.
01:23:52: They're going to know us by our love for one another. Yeah. And so I'm not here to condemn anyone who did.
01:24:00: I'm glad you're open now. Like all the churches around me were closed.
01:24:07: My only pushback, and I don't know if you're not saying this or not. Would you agree that people who did should, it would be the right thing to do to announce, hey guys, we made this.
01:24:18: We were wrong. Yeah, absolutely. But even if they don't, I'm not going to hurl rocks at them.
01:24:26: It's not a heel that I personally am going to die on. I would have a hard time trusting that leadership again.
01:24:36: I mean, I'm not saying I'd be a part of that. Yeah. Okay. Now, there's a lot of people like around here.
01:24:41: There's a lot of churches that had church outside. Yeah. You know? That's right.
01:24:50: We gathered together. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I'm an ex -gang member, ex -gang leader.
01:25:01: I used to bang hard for my set when I became a Christian. I mean,
01:25:06: I'm all. You went all sissy is what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? Ain't no sissy in me, bro.
01:25:14: You know what I'm saying? I still bang hard. I just do it differently. I bang for Jesus Christ.
01:25:20: I go out on the streets and represent, baby. That's right. I can't believe.
01:25:27: Marlon asked me a question. You said, when am I going out to Cali? Early December. Marlon, what part are you?
01:25:32: You're in California, right, Marlon? No, y 'all can't be hanging out. Marlon, where do you live at?
01:25:38: Where are we meeting up at? Marlon, you're coming to church if you live in this area,
01:25:48: Ventura area. If you live within an hour of Moore Park, you're coming to church with me.
01:25:55: Every Sunday. Idaho. No, hold on. What is that? Idaho.
01:26:05: No, that's where I live. That's the same thing.
01:26:14: All right. Any more questions? New York, California. Here's one by Orthodox MacArthur. At what age?
01:26:20: And I think we've answered this question before. Let me pull it up. At what age is a child admitted as a member of your church?
01:26:29: Voting rights and discipline. Doug Wilson does a head of a household vote.
01:26:34: Go ahead and answer that, Jeff. I like Jeff's answer on this. Yeah, so when they're an adult, when they become 18 years old.
01:26:43: Now, we're not withholding baptism from them until then. But as far as membership, we withhold that from them.
01:26:52: And here's why. Here's why. So let's say you're a member of a church. And you have a 16 -year -old daughter or son or whatever.
01:27:02: And they're a member of the church. And they get out. And they do some things that they should not be doing.
01:27:07: They're unwilling to repent. And the church comes down hard on them and removes them from the congregation.
01:27:14: That might cause you to turn your back on the church. Now, am
01:27:20: I saying that the church shouldn't do any discipline? No, I'm not. But the discipline comes from the parents and the elders of the church.
01:27:29: And so it's a cooperative thing. So as the children are part of the – as they're coming to the church, they receive all pastoral care.
01:27:39: However, if they're being – if they're doing something that they're not supposed to do and it's public, the elders of the church with the parents will look at what needs to be done.
01:27:51: And we're going to rely more on the parents than we are on the elders here at this point. But once the child becomes 18, that they need to apply for membership.
01:28:00: And that way, if they do anything ridiculously sinful that needs discipline, they will be of age at that moment.
01:28:08: And they'll have to take responsibility for themselves, not the parents. Church voting is unbiblical.
01:28:18: I would agree. Listen, and the reason I say that is if you have a controversial topic –
01:28:25: I'm not talking about decisions that are made unanimously because if there's a unanimous vote, you don't have an issue. However, here's a confrontational –
01:28:32: I would disagree with you because I think that there's some things you do allow the congregation to vote on.
01:28:38: For the most part, though, everything is taken up from the elders. Never. I mean, let me explain.
01:28:43: So if you have a controversial vote of any kind, you always create a disgruntled minority, and it creates disunity in the church.
01:28:51: That's why it's important to have an elder -led church, as a true elder -led church. Well, I would say maybe in your experience because you ain't going to leave.
01:29:00: You got to know how to leave, bro. You got to know how to leave. I'm leaving. I'm just letting you know that if you do it – listen, if you make a vote to change a roof on your church, there's going to be somebody there –
01:29:10: No, no, no, no, no, no. – that thinks shingles are the best, and then somebody there that thinks metal roofing is the best.
01:29:18: That's not what we're voting on. Okay, give me an example of a vote. An example of a vote would be like – so whenever our church first formed, right, so one of the things that they had in it was that the elder, the lead elder had to be reexamined four years and voted back in.
01:29:41: Okay, let's just use that as an example. Let's say I highly disagree with four years. I think it should be every single year.
01:29:48: Yeah, but that wasn't on the table. I'm going to make a big stink about it because I know my view is right.
01:29:56: Yeah, you can't because that's not the option we gave. I'm just saying I'm going to bring it up at the next membership meeting to vote about it.
01:30:01: – and members can't bring up stuff like that. The things that are voting on are brought up by the elder.
01:30:08: Where I'm going with this is you can see how a vote always creates a –
01:30:13: No, it doesn't. Not for me because I don't let Satan get a foot into the door. I keep him out. I'm telling you. If you haven't seen it, you will.
01:30:20: Listen, me and my wife dance. I lead the dance. I don't let her lead me. Listen, I'm letting you know. You'll see it.
01:30:25: If you open that door up of voting like that, you'll see that. Nope. At one point or another.
01:30:31: The church had to vote whether or not for me to be voted in every four years, and they voted that that's stupid.
01:30:41: Yeah, I agree. That is stupid. If I qualify myself, I should be able to stay in the pulpit. But you just said it. They voted that that's stupid.
01:30:47: So let's say I say actually the United States is built upon the principle that we make a vote every four years.
01:30:53: I think it's 100 % the right way to go about it, and now I'm the disgruntled minority in the church.
01:30:59: No, because you brought that up. It wasn't brought before you. It was the Bible. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:31:04: The elders bring before them to vote in the different categories.
01:31:10: You can't bring up a category that you brought up. You're saying. Melissa Owens says this. What about voting members out due to unrepentant sin?
01:31:18: That's an issue with church discipline that falls on the backs of the leaders of the church, which are the overseers, pastors, and elders.
01:31:25: And so that's not an option for the members to vote upon. I would agree.
01:31:33: So what about. Okay, here's kind of a question. Well, I don't know. I need to type it in. What is it?
01:31:40: I need to hold on. No, go ahead. Keep talking. Let me figure out a way to write this.
01:31:46: Do you have your own question? Kind of do. I got to put it in the chat.
01:31:52: So I'm going to be official and asking it. Okay, so. Just ask it,
01:31:59: Tom. So, okay. At what point, if you do.
01:32:05: Let's say you have your membership. You have a couple in your church that are struggling.
01:32:12: And they need to have biblical counseling. They're struggling with sin issues.
01:32:18: At what point do you turn it over?
01:32:24: How long would you allow them to continue in an unrepentant sin and counsel them without bringing them to church discipline?
01:32:37: And I guess my question is really geared toward there's so much biblical counseling that is going on right now.
01:32:43: And what it's doing, and I'm afraid that biblical counseling has been an avenue for members of the church to remain in their sin over a period of time.
01:32:59: But they're getting quote unquote biblical counseling to solve the problems.
01:33:06: At what point would you say, you know what? We need to Matthew 18 these people. What point would discipline come in?
01:33:14: How long would you let people remain in their sin? Let's say with porn.
01:33:20: A man is coming with porn. And he has an issue. He's going to biblical counseling to get trying to get his not be a slave to sin.
01:33:29: At what point do you say, you know what? Time for church discipline. So church discipline functions officially in the sense that you're talking about, but unofficially in the sense of that the gospel is being preached every
01:33:45: Sunday and it's being convicting the people. And so in that sense, God is disciplining her bride in those ways.
01:33:51: However, when it comes to like that example that you just gave. So let's say a man comes to you telling you that he has a porn addiction and is needing counseling with it.
01:34:00: That's demonstrating a repentful attitude right there that he is seeking help. And so anytime that there's there's something like that, that is not church knowledge that does not need to be announced to anybody that does not warrant them being kicked out of the church.
01:34:15: Now, let's say this man gets caught in this adulterous fornication, pornographic situation, whatever the situation is.
01:34:23: He's caught and he doesn't show any signs of repentance. That's when you church discipline in this, in the official sense of removing them from membership, from the table, from from church.
01:34:36: All those kind of things can run down. Let's say then let's say it's even even public or a more public situation where let's say this guy got caught cheating with the mayor or whatever, the mayor, the mayor woman.
01:34:48: Right. And it's a huge blemish on the church. That's when the more official statement needs to be made to members in the church.
01:34:55: Let me ask you this. So if it was a private issue, this guy struggling with sin, would you fence the table? Hold on.
01:35:02: I'm kind of struggling. I'll answer that real quick. I'm trying to I'm really struggling with the table fencing because a part of me would say yes.
01:35:09: But then a part of me will say, well, the Lord's Supper is is what God uses to grow us in holiness and take away the supper.
01:35:16: There is there's not going to be really kind of any repentance. So I'm struggling right there. However, to answer your question,
01:35:22: I would say, first of all, it depends. Because there's different levels of sin. Like a lot of people, they they don't admit that.
01:35:29: And I'm like, would you rather me do slappy or shoot you? Like there's different levels.
01:35:34: I think the Bible really, really hits hard on on the issue of sexual sins because it's it's one that you do against your own body.
01:35:45: Right. It's one that you're it. It is as if you are mishandling
01:35:51: God's temple because God tabernacles in us. You see what I'm saying? And so and then and then another part, it could be the biblical counseling.
01:36:00: Right. Like there's not a one shape fits all concerning biblical counseling. Right. You have to take these things case by case because you're you could be dealing with someone, you know, like there's never if a then be type of an answer because, you know, because you're dealing with people who are not the same.
01:36:16: So there could never be a if a then be. And if that's the way that you're handling counseling, you're doing it wrong.
01:36:23: And the other way would be another one would be this. This would be my last and final one. So let's say it's a male at our church.
01:36:30: And and so my goal as as a pastor is to raise up strong men, first of all, that lead their family.
01:36:40: And if I fall out of the pulpit, someone can take my place. And if the church was if God was to bless us in such a way that three thousand people believed and were baptized.
01:36:50: Well, my church can't hold that. You know, we have to do we got to start planting churches. And I got to I'm trying to raise up man to be leaders.
01:36:58: And if there's someone in our church that's struggling like that and they can't get over that hump, they can't shoot the line, they can't get rid of that sin.
01:37:05: They never become a leader, first of all. So that's so. So in one sense, that is a form of church discipline.
01:37:12: Yeah, because there's no leadership position for someone who can't be a sexual sin, period.
01:37:18: Right. If you allow that devil to put his foot into the door right there. Yeah. You see what
01:37:24: I'm saying? Yeah. So there is a form of church discipline and it's that they do not progress in any kind of leadership role at all.
01:37:32: Right. So those are those. So I like that. I like also Brayden's answer, if he's showing an attitude of being or a conviction of the sin.
01:37:43: But yeah, and I think C .T. Edwards just says, wait, he says, so the man is showing now.
01:37:50: I would say no. I would say no. So, yeah. So again, I think you're looking at counseling to where somebody's
01:37:59: I mean, it's not repentance. At what point would you say, you know, you might not be a believer if you're a if you're enslaved to this sin.
01:38:08: Yeah, I mean, that's what you have to do for Jesus. Your sin. That's where you have to take those scriptures and be like, listen,
01:38:14: I know what you're saying. You profess. But do you possess? Because here's some of the things that we should be seeing.
01:38:20: If you possess faith, the Holy Spirit should be in you, causing you to keep
01:38:26: God's command. Right. Amen. Where I'm going on this, though, is that there is there is a sense of where we are the saint and sinner reality, which
01:38:37: I know you guys agree with that. Right. Paul had a thorn in his flesh.
01:38:42: Right. Whatever that thorn was. I know there's disagreement on that. Whatever that thorn was. Paul struggled with it.
01:38:48: Right. His eyes. So regardless where I'm going with this, though, is
01:38:55: P. OK, another example. Peter was withholding from eating with Gentiles because of Jewish traditions, sin.
01:39:02: And Paul calls him out and he repents over it. There's going to be issues in every Christian's walk of where they struggle with sin.
01:39:09: But the point of it is, is that they're struggling with it. They're trying to fight. It's not that they're giving into it.
01:39:15: It's not that they're they're just going along with it. And so repentance doesn't mean repentance doesn't mean how good
01:39:24: I can turn away from sin. It's that you're turning to Christ and the cross. And in that process, you're going to be struggling with sin.
01:39:31: It's going to be an ongoing process of repentance. And so it can a man or a woman fall into these instances of sexual immorality, whatever that case might be.
01:39:41: Absolutely. Do they live in it? That's an issue. If they're struggling with it.
01:39:46: Well, that's a case by case. Is it struggling with it in the in in a way that appears to be in repentance or is in a way that appears that it's just a it's a.
01:39:55: Yeah, yeah. Right. And then there's also the homosexual, the drunkard, the the all these things that will not inherit the kingdom of God.
01:40:06: But some were such as you that you've been washed, you've been justified. So so just because somebody is in that that moment in sexual morality, it's a blessing.
01:40:17: It's a it's a great, wonderful grace of the Lord to watch somebody turn away from sin and be conformed to the image of Christ, struggling their way through it and coming to a full delivering of that sin from a committing that sin.
01:40:31: So two comments. We have two comments on that one. C .T. Edwards says if no progression is happening, then church discipline will really make them understand the severity of their sin.
01:40:42: That's a good point. Yeah, that is a good point. And then there was another one. Samantha said some
01:40:50: Christians will be saved and yet still choose to wear bondage the rest of their life because they receive the abundant life of God meant.
01:40:59: Because they never received it. I'm not sure if I'm with you on that one. Yeah, I think
01:41:05: I think the wording there, I would definitely disagree with. Now, some you know, there's not going to ever be a time when you're living in the flesh and you're not sin.
01:41:15: Right. There's a difference between committing sin and living in sin. Living in sin is like, hey, I'm OK with this.
01:41:21: Well, you know, yes, it's like falling into a swimming pool and it's 90 degrees outside and you're swimming in and it feels good and you love it versus falling into a swimming pool when it's 20 degrees outside and the moment it touches you, it hurts.
01:41:40: And all you can do is think about is getting out of it. Right. And so when the Christian falls into sin and he realizes that he's in sin, he doesn't want to be there.
01:41:50: He's going to do everything within his power to get out. If a Christian falls into if a supposed
01:41:55: Christian begins to live in sin, it does know they don't see anything wrong to it.
01:42:01: They cannot live in that state. God will discipline them. God will break their leg. God will give them cancer.
01:42:07: It doesn't matter. God is going to wake them up if there's no discipline, if there's no wake up. That person was never a believer in Jesus.
01:42:14: That's right. I mentioned that in my sermon today, that principle of what you're talking about,
01:42:20: Jeff, because you have the example of John and first John chapter two, I believe it is, where he says they went out from us because they were never of us.
01:42:27: Speaking of Antichrist, so that those that deny Christ, Paul, John, when he writes that is speaking in hindsight, 20, 20 years after these events, he can he sees the faces of the people he's talking about when he writes this.
01:42:39: He says, these people that I'm looking at and I remember them so vividly, they had a profession of Christ.
01:42:45: But as time went on, they actually denied him and they were never of us. That's a heartbreaking statement that no doubt
01:42:51: John is making right there, that here I trust these people and they turned. They were never really
01:42:56: Christians. Paul in the book of Galatians that I just preached from today, Galatians chapter four, verses eight through 11.
01:43:02: Paul is saying, how have you come to supposedly have freedom, freedom from the enslavement of these false gods, churches of Galatia that were mostly
01:43:12: Gentile? You were following after Zeus essentially is what Paul is saying. You were following these false gods and now you have faith in Christ.
01:43:19: You have this freedom in Christ. How can you return to enslavement is what he says. And so Paul is writing this in the moment of their sin, which he says in verse 10.
01:43:29: He says, you observe days, weeks, months and years, speaking of them following after the judicial and ceremonial laws of the
01:43:37: Judaizers were teaching them. And so these these Gentiles, probably in a spirit of trying to do that, which was right.
01:43:45: According to these influential sound, good reasoning of the Judaizers were actually committing serious sin against God and they were being tricked and duped into doing so.
01:43:56: And I'm sure their their their conscience was convicting them otherwise, but they still went on doing it. Paul calls them out to repent.
01:44:04: He calls them all foolish. He loves them in this process. He calls them out in that sin and says, turn back to the freedom that you supposedly have in Christ.
01:44:13: Stop going back to these forms of slavery. And so that's the difference.
01:44:18: And so when we when we see somebody that is living 10 years of sin, we can confidently look at somebody like that and say, you know what?
01:44:26: They have every appearance of the world. They're not of us. But let's say you have another you have a younger
01:44:33: Christian who has been tricked or has fallen into sin, whatever the example is, who's struggling in it.
01:44:39: You can look at that person and say, I don't see a pattern of habitual abuse right here.
01:44:46: Repent. Stop it. And let's let's walk back with let's walk together to Christ and His cross right now.
01:44:54: Yeah, Melissa said that you're either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. Romans 616, it says,
01:45:00: Do you not know that when you present yourself, when you when you go on presenting yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness?
01:45:16: So we do have a power over sin if we are immersing ourself. But but like you said, I like both of your answers.
01:45:23: Very, very good. All right.
01:45:29: Anything else? Are y 'all done with this? Get y 'all in.
01:45:37: Samantha said, I agree. Good. C .T.
01:45:47: Edwards said true. Maybe placing this couple in church discipline will reveal if they are true flock or not.
01:45:54: The true flock will submit to Christ, but the lost will continue in sin. And, you know, that's another another really important thing
01:46:01: I would also say is that as members of churches, let's just say you heard
01:46:07: Mr. John and Mrs. John got into a sexual scandal or whatever it is.
01:46:13: And now you see them going and talking. Don't let listen. Don't let slanderous and gossip thoughts enter your mind.
01:46:22: And then you go and spout that off to the rest of the church. You are falling into sin and pushing sin a lot by doing that.
01:46:29: You're going to you're causing more disruption than in some cases than what Mr. John and Mrs. John has caused. And so don't do that, first of all.
01:46:37: Second of all, trust your pastor that he's handling things correctly. And let's say the next week comes by and you see them taking to the
01:46:43: Lord's table. You see things going on. Praise the Lord. Don't don't sit there and dwell in the happenings of Mr.
01:46:52: John and Mrs. John. Trust that the pastor is shepherding, trust that the pastor is disciplining and trust that that God is being glorified in all of it.
01:47:00: Yeah. And I would also say if it does get to the point to where that family is removed from the church or that family decides to leave over the discipline, even still that, you know, unless you have that family's permission or if they want it to be broadcast, you don't don't broadcast it to the congregation.
01:47:20: They listen. There was a disagreement or there was a sin issue. We try to work our way through it.
01:47:26: It did not work. You don't have to go into the nitty gritty details of the issue. Very good.
01:47:32: I think I think Steve Lawson's this recent stuff is a perfect example of this. Regardless, right, wrong or indifferent, he's a more public figure and therefore there is a lot more public reaction regarding these things.
01:47:44: However, what should Christians do? They should trust that the leadership of that local body that has direct oversight over Steve Lawson's soul is handling this correctly.
01:47:56: And we should be praying for them in whatever church discipline that they are applying to Steve Lawson.
01:48:02: I would also add this. So even if Steve Lawson is unrepentant, that's still probably not something that everyone should know.
01:48:11: It would be it would definitely be something that another congregation. So if Steve Lawson starts going to a different congregation, that elder team at that church needs to know.
01:48:22: That's who's most needed to know, like everyone knowing all your business.
01:48:28: This is so new to history, much less church.
01:48:35: Yeah, right. Everyone all up in your graham crackers, you know, everyone all up in there. Everyone's got a cup to the door listening.
01:48:43: That's right. Because the world's biggest world's largest trailer park. Ladies, listen up on this one.
01:48:49: I know men can do it, too. But in my experience, ladies, don't be gossips. Don't be slander.
01:48:56: There's something to be said. And I think it's just as written within the difference between men and women is women.
01:49:04: Typically, you usually are a little bit more emotional, driven in their behavior and their actions.
01:49:11: Listen, speaking, speaking biblically on this topic, maybe from listen, this is just I think how it is.
01:49:21: Women don't don't be motivated in emotion to go and tell your neighbor about what
01:49:26: Mr. John and Mrs. John are up to. Oh, and by the way, don't do it in prayer either.
01:49:33: Oh, yes. Oh, that's right. She's been struggling every since she had her hip replaced with the alcohol and pray that the medication that they given her.
01:49:48: She's just stumbling everywhere. Mrs. John, I know, has at least seen one other man.
01:49:56: But God, you know, all the other men that I don't even know. Like, don't do that.
01:50:03: You're about to get kicked out of prayer meeting if you're doing that. Yeah. Also, Samantha. Samantha says this.
01:50:09: She says a public church discipline should be only done serious matters of the vision.
01:50:15: Now. So so serious matters of the vision. I would speak doctrinally doctrine and so on and so forth.
01:50:22: But also, I would say that this is speaking in a sexual sin as well. Because we say in First Corinthians chapter five, the guy sleeping with his stepmom, right?
01:50:30: Bringing her to church like it's all good. Paul says, remove that evil from among you.
01:50:37: Yeah. Right. And Paul addresses this to the church. He says, listen, this has gotten so bad, it's public.
01:50:45: And so we must handle this public. Remove that evil from among you. Purge the evil from your mind.
01:50:50: So he says, do we have we we're not to go out and judge outsiders. We are to judge those in the church.
01:50:56: And if they repent, accept them back. Accept them back. One hundred percent. So there is that there does come a time where you have to make it public.
01:51:05: Such as that. Right. You know, like if someone was coming to our church, sleeping with their stepmom, like it's not happening.
01:51:15: And I would also say repentance. If let's say the sin is public, the discipline is public.
01:51:21: I think the repentance has to be public, too. For sure. And and also and I was going to give another example with this, too.
01:51:28: Let's say let's say Mr. and Mrs. John go to pastor and and complain to him about their dad.
01:51:34: All right. And then let's just say the pastor gives him his advice. He says, look, you got to stop sleeping with Mr.
01:51:40: and Mrs. Smith down the road. Stop it. Repent from that. And they say, well, I don't really like that.
01:51:47: So instead, I'm just going to switch churches and I'm going to write a letter to everyone. In the church, I'm going to call up everyone in the church and tell them how mean pastor is to us.
01:51:57: That also deserves a public statement to the church in those cases as well. It's it's unfortunate.
01:52:04: Church issues get sticky and in and public and not good.
01:52:09: People are people do dumb things, especially when there's a lot of this going on in the background. Just I would just tell you if let's say you're in a church right now that's caught up in a church discipline issue.
01:52:20: Whatever that is, you be keep on trusting your elders and and know that.
01:52:27: I don't know, I look back at issues that I've handled in the past and I'm like, man, I wish I would have handled that a little bit differently now.
01:52:34: Know that your pastor might be in that kind of a situation that in years from then they're going to look back and say, man, I wish
01:52:39: I would have handled that differently, too. But just just trust them. Submit their leadership. That's what the Bible says.
01:52:44: Don't give them a headache. It says do this, submit to their leadership for your own good.
01:52:50: It will help you. Let me let me point that to because it is important to do that.
01:52:56: Even even when our elders, we we know they're sinners, too. You're not perfect. They're going to make mistakes, right?
01:53:02: For your elders. Oh, we are called to submit to the elders. It's not our business.
01:53:08: It's on them. They're going to be held accountable for the decisions that they make. So, yes, just like Brayden or Jeff said, pray for them in that situation.
01:53:18: Don't blow them up. That's right. Yeah. The last thing they need is the congregation turning against them or doubting him or because, again, does that everybody in the congregation know the full picture?
01:53:33: Absolutely freaking not. And God has ordained the elders to take care of that situation.
01:53:39: That's right. The congregation is not going to give an answer for the souls of those who are under discipline.
01:53:45: It's going to be the pastor who is. Yeah. And so real quick, I want to answer Melissa, but also want to, you know, again,
01:53:53: Samantha, we would we would agree with you that you go to your brother first. However, there is certain circumstances where if it's made public in such a way as you see in First Corinthians chapter five,
01:54:04: I would advise you to go read that, that there's extreme circumstances to where you have to hit it.
01:54:10: Yet you have to hit the nail on the head. Yeah, right. Because the devil has come into the door.
01:54:18: So whenever something is made public like that, like he's already brought it before everyone, everyone's already seeing this publicly.
01:54:24: You have to put a stop to it right then and there. Certain sins call for certain drastic drastic measures.
01:54:33: And so here's what Melissa has to ask. Melissa asks, excuse me, should law
01:54:38: Steve Lawson make a public statement in the future if he is repentant?
01:54:44: Yes, I would say yes. If I was his elder, I would say that he needs to make a public statement. I'm not his elder.
01:54:50: I'm not the one looking over his soul. But if I was in that situation, I would say that Steve Lawson needs to make a public statement of some kind.
01:54:58: And and yeah, he just needs to it. It's an open public matter. It needs to be addressed publicly as well.
01:55:07: I mean, this this is an event that was broadcast on public news now. Like, this is a blemish on the bride of Christ right now.
01:55:14: So it's something that needs to be addressed. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so with Steve, it's a lot different because he is a public figure.
01:55:21: So let's say just some average. Listen, there's no elder on average. OK, like it takes.
01:55:27: We're all sinful. But listen, but what has to be put up with like respect, pray for your elders.
01:55:33: Right. But let's just say some average Joe elder. We just we're just, you know, just just a nobody.
01:55:39: Right. He he does something very similar. He sat down, so on and so forth. He does not have to have a go on Facebook and make some kind of apology.
01:55:48: Right. It's the status that we see taking place here with Lawson and how and how it's done becomes so public.
01:55:56: Now, here's where I think dropped the ball. What dropped the ball? In my opinion, you can disagree with me.
01:56:02: That's fine. I'll shut Facebook off. I listen to you. The church should not have broadcast it the way that they did.
01:56:11: The church should not have brought it was none of our business. The church should not have broadcast the way that they did. It could have been done a lot easier.
01:56:19: That man's life is ruined. He ruined it. He ruined it.
01:56:25: He didn't take part in. Yeah. Yeah. But it could have been a lot easier on him.
01:56:31: Listen, the man's life is ruined. I'm so listen, I'm serious. There's been pastors who shot themselves for less.
01:56:38: Yeah. We as people who is none of our business. Chill out. Leave that man alone.
01:56:44: Yeah. And pray for his repentance. Yeah, for sure. Like it was none of our business.
01:56:51: The way that it was laid out. I mean, like it could have been something that was brought out a little easier. You know, like all the all this detail is none of our business.
01:56:59: The one thing I would say just to think on this too, is that there there there's speculation.
01:57:05: I don't know if it's true there. Again, a lot of it is not been confirmed in absolute detail, but it sounds like the the father of the mistress, the father of the lady that he was seeing or talking to or whatever was going on.
01:57:18: And I can only make him confess, made him confess. And so there could have been a potential that if the church didn't do anything public, the father was going to do something public and maybe maybe expose the sin on a much grander front.
01:57:34: Like I don't want to even go there with you can imagine if a father got access to his young daughter or not young, his 20 year old daughter's phone.
01:57:47: Twenty nine. Well, let's just say then it went back five years. Twenty four at the time. Let's say he has access to all the text messaging records.
01:57:55: Could you imagine screenshots of what was being sent, published? So, yeah, this is where I'm just saying we don't know what the church was.
01:58:07: So it could have been one of those things that the church said we are going to just put it all out there. So that's not back down to evil.
01:58:13: If that father is doing that, that's evil. The church should never back down from evil. Period. Right.
01:58:19: Yeah. Listen, that church is going to happen in the same way that Steve Olson is going to stand before God and answer for what he did.
01:58:27: That church is going to have to stand before God and answer for what they did to. Yeah. Those elders are going to stand before God.
01:58:34: Listen, it doesn't mean so. So my my co elder. Right. He's my pastor.
01:58:41: All right. I'm his pastor. All right. And I'm going to be judged for how
01:58:46: I pastor my co pastor, my co pastor. And same same with him.
01:58:52: Right. We're going to have to give an account of how we treat people who who we are over.
01:58:58: And we should never unless they publicize they publicize their sin.
01:59:04: We should never publicize someone's sin. I'm sorry. I just it's. Yeah.
01:59:10: It is what it is. Yeah. Good stuff, guys. Good Lord's Day, everyone.
01:59:18: That was a two hour show. Are y 'all done? I got another four hours in me.
01:59:26: This is a Joe Rogan podcast, apparently, where we don't have any fires to put out anymore.
01:59:34: This is true. I'm no longer a firefighter. It's a weird thing to say. Wow. That is crazy.
01:59:40: Absolutely not. Melissa on that question. I would say no. What did Melissa say?
01:59:45: What would you say to those who believe that Steve can be restored to the pulpit in the future? It would have to be.
01:59:51: Well, so. So it would have to be a long feature to where people didn't remember him, because here's what
01:59:58: I believe. 73. So. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, I think a person can recover from that sin eventually and be brought back into the pulpit.
02:00:08: However, you have to be above reproach. So what it means to be above reproach would mean that those who know him would have to be able to see him and not think of that sin.
02:00:19: Right. So imagine if you walked into a church and you saw Steve Lawson speaking with a young lady.
02:00:25: Maybe he was counselor or whatever. If you think in your mind, he's probably trying to get with her.
02:00:33: Then he's not. He's not above reproach. Right. And so. And so there would have to come a long length of time to where his righteous living for Christ, that that point outweighed, overshadowed.
02:00:46: Yeah. And that he did. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And because he's so public, so he's known by so many people, that is going to be impossible.
02:00:55: Again, some average Joe, no one knows 10, 20, 25, 30 years down the road, he could be restored back to the ministry.
02:01:04: You'd have to like save an airplane from crashing with one hand off everybody.
02:01:10: And everybody's like, oh, it's Steve Lawson, the guy that saved everybody on an airplane with one hand.
02:01:16: And then boom. Anyway, well,
02:01:22: Tom, is Tom still on for you, Jeff? Or did he go bye bye? I see his name.
02:01:27: That's all I see. I'm pretty sure Tom got raptured. Yeah. Or he's hanging out with his best buddy now.
02:01:33: He's hanging out with Brandon. We love you, Brandon. You're welcome to come on the show and have a conversation.
02:01:40: But just know we pick on folks over here. Just ask around. I guess. Well, you got any last words, brother?
02:01:48: Jake D said, spider chewed through Tom's internet cables. I just remember last week.
02:01:59: That was so funny. Yeah, that was good. Give Tom a chair.
02:02:08: Is that what an emoji is? It's funny. We need a Debbie to go kill a spider.
02:02:15: She didn't get to it in time. It chewed right through his internet cable tonight. Dang it. All right.
02:02:22: Well, no, let me do this plug. If you are looking to do something that is worth your time, energy, effort in doing it, come to the
02:02:34: My Computer Failed. It was a spider. A spider chewed right through his internet.
02:02:42: If you're looking to do something that is worth your time, I think you should look into the Open Air Theology Conference.
02:02:49: For sure. In Tennessee on the topic of sanctification titled War. We're going to be talking about how to make war with your flesh, how to be more and more like Christ, how to be sanctified and set apart in this world.
02:03:01: So come and check out that conference. Be plugged into a local church. Repent.
02:03:08: What else did we talk about tonight? Be a Calvinist. It's biblical. Know your context.
02:03:14: Know your context. If you knew your context, you'd already be a Calvinist. You'd be a Baptist and you'd also be a reformed
02:03:19: Baptist. Listen, you'd be a 1689 Federalist Baptist. A reformed
02:03:24: Baptist throwing through like everybody in the last 2 ,000 years that was truly reformed. I'm telling you, first century church fathers, they were 1689ers.
02:03:33: Second century, 1689ers. Augustine, 1689er. They had a
02:03:39: PTL rebind too? Yeah, PTL rebind too. He had a
02:03:44: Donner's Oak tobacco pipe. I mean, these guys were living it up years ago. And they were fans of open air theology.
02:03:52: Who would have thought? Yeah, it was crazy. So go check those things out. Tonight was a blessing.
02:03:59: 1689er, yeah, 100%. We need to get a t -shirt. You know the 49ers t -shirts that they got? 1689er t -shirt.
02:04:07: That's a good idea. That's a good idea, Jeff. Get on it. But yeah, if you haven't already, subscribe, like, comment, share this
02:04:16: YouTube channel and videos with your friends, family, social media people, social media strangers, anywhere and everywhere.
02:04:24: It'd be a blessing for them to get on and join us with these things. And let us know what you'd like us to talk about next week.
02:04:30: We're always looking for topics. Yeah, and with that said, it was so good hanging out with everybody.
02:04:36: We enjoyed doing this show. We consider everyone that participates a part of this.
02:04:41: And so it was good fellowshipping with y 'all. And if you're ever in Tallahoma, Tennessee, please come check out
02:04:48: Covenant Reformed Baptist Church. Oh yeah, pray for me. Y 'all know that we're trying to get this new church building.
02:04:54: Well, so the next I have the next three days, I got to get a hold of the church to figure out my next step.
02:05:00: And so the guy is really hard to get a hold of. Please, please pray that I nail it the first time.
02:05:05: We can go ahead and figure this out. And I have some good news for everybody soon. Again, if you're ever in Tallahoma, Tennessee, come hang out with your boy.
02:05:13: We worship the Lord together. He is there. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Amen.