Leaving A Church

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on

the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for

even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for

you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial.

Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and

glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry.

My name is Mike Abendroth.

And we have a little slogan, �Always Biblical, Always Provocative, Always in that Order.

� I�m after your mind.

I want you to think biblically.

And of course, the object of our faith is the Lord Jesus, who never compromised.

Can you imagine?

Never compromised.

And when you think of the cross, mercy, grace, justice, not compromised.

And then that leads us into our desire not to compromise, to compromise not.

You can write me, Mike, at NoCompromiseRadio .com.

General questions, info, at NoCompromiseRadio .com.

Crazy theological topics that you want me to talk about, Heno, H -E -N -O,

at NoCompromiseRadio .com.

That is not a slang on a swear word.

That is what my grandmother said when she answered the phone, and we�ve stolen that as a little slogan, Heno, instead of saying

hello.

I have the Christianity Today in front of me, at least one page.

I still receive it.

I don�t know why, but I just went through it, and I found

one page worthy of NoCo discussion.

And it is ChristianityToday .com, December 2016.

So see how relevant we are?

See how contemporary we are?

I think I should probably do a show where I talk so fast that the 1 .5 speeders can�t

do it.

I know many of you listen at 1 .5 speed.

I listen to podcasts.

I try to listen to all podcasts at 1 .5 speed, and I do try to slow down for sermons.

Sometimes it doesn�t happen.

Evangelical church shopping, explained.

This is in Christianity Today�s Go Figure section.

Two -thirds of Americans who attend churches in evangelical denominations have

looked for a new congregation.

That is 67 percent.

According to the Pew Research, that�s P -E -W, Center,

that�s higher than any other U .S. religious group.

The average 49 percent.

The Pew, sorry, Pew asked, remember Jethro Pew, P -U -G -H,

number 75, Dallas Cowboys, late 60s.

I think he�s the guy Jerry Kramer blocked in the frozen ice bowl so

Bart Stark could score the go -ahead touchdown.

Pew asked 700 evangelicals why they wanted to leave their church and how their church search

went or how their search went.

Now, you know what it�s like if you ever have to leave a church.

My reasoning behind this, number of 67 percent evangelicals

looking for churches.

If you�re in a mainline church, a non -evangelical church, mainline Methodist, mainline Presbyterian,

I -E -U -S -A, mainline, what else, Lutheran, they

probably put Catholics here in the

religious groups, of course.

And if you are Catholic, you get a new priest, something goes on, it doesn�t

really matter.

It doesn�t even matter how fallible or frail or sinful the priest is because you need grace via

the sacrament.

You need the mass and anyone can perform the mass.

If you are mainline Lutheran, mainline Protestant, and you don�t really care that

much because it�s more about community.

When my children were little, they said they went to Grace Timmunity.

That�s a very interesting church name.

So they�re more about community and other things.

Evangelicals, probably the focus is on the Word of God, or at least it should be, but based on this

little stat here, one never knows.

Within the last five years, 39 percent have looked for a new church.

Within the last five to ten, 12, ten years or more, 16 percent.

There are probably reasons to leave a church, don�t you think?

Let�s give a few.

You move.

That would be a reason to leave a church.

If a church has sin in it, that�s not a reason to leave.

There is sin in every church.

It�s how the church deals with sin.

It�s never� even if the pastor falls into grievous sin, we use that

nomenclature �fall.

If he purposely sins and it�s egregious enough, he cheats on his wife or something like that,

well, you shouldn�t leave a church for that reason unless the elders don�t discipline him

or call him to repentance or remove him, and if they do, I would suggest staying at the church because it�s

not� the focus shouldn�t be on sinful ones.

It should be on the sinless one who�s told the leaders of the church, Jesus has told the elders,

how to take care of that problem.

And you can look at 1 Timothy and Titus for direction.

It says here, though, the reason they went church shopping,

and you could select more than one.

Church shopping.

Isn�t that interesting?

We are consumers all the way through, and of course I sit here with my

Volcom jeans on and my Under Armour shoes and my

iPhone 6 I have here, and I have a Patagonia jacket on,

and that�s about all I have for name brands.

What kind of shirt is this?

I think this is a DC shirt or something, who knows?

Your typical surf swag.

Okay, I�m a consumer, I know that.

But should consumerism factor into the local church, either from its leadership�s perspective, that

is to say, how can we get more people to consume our product, place, price, promotion and

product, 4 P�s of marketing, maybe they have more P�s now, and what

about trying to find a church?

The number one reason you should pick a church is for their view of the Word of God, and therefore that will affect how it is

preached, not the parking lot and not the children�s programs and not the length of

services.

The reason they went church shopping, 49 of people moved, so that�s actually an

excellent reason to leave a church, right?

You have to move.

Although, here�s what happens, and we�ve talked about this a dozen times on No Compromise Radio.

It is rare.

It is blue -moonish for someone to make sure there�s a good Bible -teaching

church.

I don�t mean just by name or a cursory look on the website, but

to know there�s a good church, to know to know, right?

If you even think of Greek, you�ve got two kinds of knowledge, intellectual and experiential.

To know for sure that there�s a good Bible -teaching church, an evangelical church nearby, before you move.

You say, �Yeah, but I can make $20 ,000 more if I take this job.

� Yeah, by no church -ville land, squire, sure.

I would say at least once a month, I was going to say once a week, I get an email, �Do you know of a good

church in such and such an area

And I�m trying to find, you know, I live here, versus I�m going to try

to find a church, and therefore I�ll search ahead of time.

And I�m happy to do it, I�m happy to minister, I want this to be a ministry,

and many of you email me and say, �What about a particular area for a church

And I go to the church, I try to find solid

leadership from seminaries that I trust, whether that�s Baptistic or Presbyterian,

and I start listening to a sermon.

First thing I do is I go to leadership, and I see where they�re educated, and then I go to sermons to see

if it�s verse -by -verse, generally, verse -by -verse at least, and then I click on one of the sermons, and I start to listen.

I just did that with a church down in Florida, small little PCA church, clicked on it, and I was

very surprised, in a good way, how solid the teaching was.

Because in my mind, and you can correct me if I�m wrong, in PCA world, you�ve got

everything from very conservative, and that�s what I like, or very loosey

-goosey, that�s what I don�t like.

I just don�t personally see how the PCA could keep all these people under one umbrella,

but I�m not PCA.

But anyway, I recommended a particular PCA church to my friend who was thinking about moving to this

particular job in Florida.

So if you are going to move, make sure you put the proverbial church

home cart before the horse, or horse before the cart, which one, Steve, where are you?

Go there, listen to a few sermons, go to the website, rather, listen to a few sermons.

If you live far away, you could call the pastor.

If you�re going to go visit the job and interview there, you could set up a time to go visit the pastor or

one of the pastoral staff folks.

You can talk to some of the leaders.

There�s a lot of things you could do, but now it�s so easy with the internet just to listen to people preach, and you could say to

yourself, here�s the question.

There are many questions you should ask, but here�s a question.

Does he proclaim Christ, there is a Savior?

Does he preach verse by verse?

Does he have a high view of the Word of God?

Those are some good questions to ask, right?

And if it�s a 22 -minute little sermon, you�re not going to be able to go.

You can probably try to talk yourself into it.

I just know people say, oh, there�s a bunch of Baptist churches, and we�re going to the South, they�re all Baptist.

There�s church on every corner.

Really?

There are churches, but you want to go to those kind of churches?

The reason they went church shopping, according to Christianity Today, December 2016, 49 moved,

18 disagreed with pastor.

Now, they probably could have said disagreed with the pastor or the pastors or some pastors, all the pastors, a few

pastors.

Hey, friends, I try not to use this show for self -serving

motives.

If I talk about churches that don�t give, I don�t think I�ve ever said, you

know, I�m in a church that doesn�t give or I�m in a church that doesn�t take care of their pastor.

I immediately try to deflect and tell you that, and truthfully, this

church is a wonderful church that takes care of her pastors.

I�m going to say her, it�s, yeah, it just depends on what metaphor for the body we want to use, for the

church body.

Those are the only ones I can think of right now, I�m bribed, there�s not one.

I have a whole book on images of the church in the New Testament I just looked at and I can�t think of any.

Demonity, but disagree with the pastor, I mean, get in line.

I disagree with myself sometimes, so do I leave my own self in church?

My wife disagrees with me, elders disagree with one another, hopefully not in front of people but behind

closed doors as they�re trying to work out sticky situations that involve messes, sin, and

other things.

Disagree with the pastor.

One of the things I�ve said regularly here at the church, let�s say you�re a conservative

charismatic and here now you�re at Bethlehem Bible Church and you realize I�m not a charismatic at all, I�m a

cessationist, you probably think I�m a hardline cessationist, and

you don�t like what I say.

Now I don�t say conservative charismatics or mothers who wear army boots and stuff like that, I

don�t try to make it a personal attack, I�m just trying to deal with the text.

I�m in 1 Corinthians and off we go.

Well, I usually say to people, you know, that�s okay if you disagree with me because I�ll be on to the next text and my guess is

you�re going to agree with me on that take because it�s going to be very normal, natural, plain

interpretation of the Bible, interpretation interpreted.

So, just hang in there.

To disagree with the pastor, I mean, there would be no one left here at Bethlehem Bible Church.

They�d probably disagree with me on all kinds of things, but at the end of the day, if they say, you know, by the grace of

God, these are the qualifications of being an elder and the duties of an elder are

discharged, some days better than others, but preaches the word, disciples men, and

if you look even at a cursory overview of Titus like we did last week on the show, silences

the critics, that is of the critics of the gospel, not his own critics, silences the false teachers,

he�s training up men to be elders and deacons, he is

trying to show himself an example of godliness, you know, the list that we looked at in

Titus.

But to disagree with the pastor, therefore you leave, friends, I want to tell you something.

I know there are major disagreements on key doctrinal things, the trinity or something like that you

might have to leave, but just disagreements in general, this is a broad statement here in CT, so I�m using the broad

statement, you�re going to go to the next church and you�re going to disagree with that pastor too.

By the way, most people that leave churches are going to leave the next one too, you know, in the old days I�d get all excited, we�d have

visitors here at the church and oh, you are leaving that seeker -sensitive church and you�re coming here, yes,

hoorah, hooray, hoorah.

And then I realized they did the same thing to me three years later that they did to this last guy right now, and

just, you know, it�s that old funny joke, I can�t remember who said it,

Brian Reagan or something, you know, the only common denominator in all your failed relationships is you.

Maybe that was the funny parody of those

corporate posters things, what was that, Discourage or something, can�t remember the

name of those, if I had Steve I would remember those.

Disagree with the pastor, now if you do disagree with the pastor, let�s say he�s

your view of the kenosis, impeccability of Jesus,

could he have sinned, we know he didn�t sin but could he have, were they real temptations, and you go back and forth, why don�t you just go meet with the

pastor, could you please help me understand your position on such and such, and he should say, sure, I�d love to,

that�s the way to approach it.

Reason I went church shopping, 49 moved, 18 disagreed with the pastor, 16 married or got

divorced.

Okay, let�s talk about this.

This is wonderful no co -fodder.

If you are a young man and you�re at a church, it�s a Bible teaching church, solid church, you meet

a girl, she doesn�t go to the church you go to, she goes to a different church and just for example today, let�s say that

she�s at more of a seeker sensitive man -centered Arminian type of church,

okay.

Most of the time, in my experience, the man gets married to the

woman and he leaves the good church.

Horrible leadership by the guy, that should all be worked out ahead of time.

The girl should follow the boy, the lady should follow the man.

Pretty shocking news, isn�t it?

Well, it doesn�t happen very often, they�re usually here for a little while and then off they go because the sway of

the lady wins.

Now if you are at a good church lady and you meet a man who�s

at a seeker sensitive church and you end up staying at the good church

because he follows you, well, there�s some benefit that comes from that.

But I don�t like that in one sense because I want you to go where the man

goes, has nothing to do with image -bearing, has nothing to do with equality in Christ,

Galatians 3, blah -blah -blah -blah -blah -blah -blah.

You can just hear the feminist freak out.

It has to do with leadership and God -ordained leadership, and the reason why people don�t like God -ordained leadership is the same reason

people don�t like Israel, because it means God�s in charge and they�re not.

And all the spew and pablum of the �feministic evangelicals� is

nothing more than resistance against God�s sovereign plan.

God is God and they are not, and they don�t like the program.

And they kick against the goats.

Now, if you get divorced from someone in the church, and let�s say it�s a biblical divorce,

then I don�t know why you would leave.

I mean, I know why, to save face or you�re prideful or whatever.

Number four, dissatisfaction with church or its theology.

Well, that�s almost like a subcategory of disagreeing with the pastor, so what�s the difference between the first one of disagreeing with the

pastor, what�s technically second in the list, and this one, dissatisfaction with church or its theology.

Well, dissatisfaction with church, by the way, I have more dissatisfaction with the church than probably anybody else,

because I know my problems best and I know other people�s problems probably more than most other folks do,

that is to say, in total.

And there�s a dissatisfaction.

You go, �Yeah, bummer.

You know, there are things at church that I don�t like.

� Well, yeah, get in line.

If it said Mike�s church, then I would make sure everything was done according to my plan, but it�s not Mike�s church.

Five, change in personal beliefs.

Okay, there are some things that are secondary issues, tertiary issues that you don�t want to change things for,

but if you have an epiphany theologically in your church, let�s say

you�re at a Calvary Chapel church.

What a mess the Calvary Chapel is in now with the son -in -law of Chuck Smith.

I have a heart for Calvary Chapel since I got saved

in that.

It�s not a denomination, but it�s essentially one.

And let�s say you�re a Calvary Chapel person and you begin to study the Bible and you now believe the doctrines of grace and you�re a

cessationist and you believe in elders, and you say to yourself,

�Hmm, it�s Arminian, no membership even, just kind of pastor

rules, and I think I have to go.

Okay, that�s fine, but I don�t think that has to do with this point here because this change in personal

beliefs.

What does that mean?

Now I think homosexuality is righteous.

I don�t know what this is.

Distance or convenience, that�s three percent.

So now we�re getting down to the smaller ones, children�s needs and educations, one and more community.

I will say with the one and more community part, and again, broad brush statements,

but you�ll get the community you put the effort into getting.

Well, nobody�s friendly.

Well, okay, probably, so you be friendly.

Nobody invites me over to their house.

Well, you invite people over to your house.

I thought actually the Christian life was to give and not to get.

That�s what I thought Jesus did, but of course we, and I do the same thing sadly at times,

we want what are they doing for me, and if they won�t do for me, then off we go,

and that is the problem, isn�t it?

The problem is, well, this church isn�t friendly.

Well, then be friendly.

I�m trying to be friendly.

Why don�t you be friendly too?

Well, we don�t really greet visitors like we should.

Okay, well, then greet visitors.

Let�s have a revolution of one, and I want more community.

I want to do more things.

I want to have more knitting groups.

Okay, well, then start them.

You don�t need my permission to start your group, your shotgun group and your knitting group and everything in between.

Notice I didn�t say the men do shotguns and the girls do knitting.

I�m not too sure.

I mean, I know some ladies like shotguns.

I don�t know too many men who like the knitting clubs.

But, you know, who am I?

The reason they went church shopping.

If you�re thinking about church shopping, look at yourself, do some

self -analysis, and why don�t you just go meet with your pastor?

Email your pastor.

Hi, Pastor Mike.

This is Jim and Susie, and we would like to meet with you,

and maybe you could help us.

That�s the best way, by the way, to get advice from people, especially those in

authority, government, your boss.

If you�re kids, to your parents.

If you�re a congregational member to the elders of the church, maybe you have a different kind of leadership.

All you have to do is say, could you help me, please?

Could you help me understand what you mean by what you said?

Can you help me understand this doctrinal statement?

Can you help me understand why we don�t do more for the community?

That�s what we�re after, is for you to just say, yeah, could you help?

If you walk in in lecture mode, the pastor should be big enough to take it, but it�s

hard.

So why don�t you just go in and say, could you help me on such and such and such and such?

Oh, yeah, I�d love to help.

I mean, isn�t that your natural reaction?

I�d love to help.

When I was a sales rep in hospitals and operating rooms, I would talk to nurses, and

I would say, could you please help me?

And I thought, you know what?

That�s the way to talk to a nurse, because nurses are helpers.

That�s what they do.

They try to help.

And that doesn�t belittle anyone, because you can even look at Scripture when it talks about God as helper.

God is a helper, and I�m thankful for that.

So when it comes to churches, if you�ve got a church on the positive side that preaches Christ Jesus

and the gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and the response to the gospel of repentance and

belief, and he�s teaching the Bible verse by verse, but he�s frail, broken, wounded,

and he�s not one of these TV preachers.

That is to say, I don�t mean TVN ones, but he�s not one of these famous evangelicals.

He�s just faithful.

He�s faithful, not fabulous.

Then instead of going church shopping, why don�t you just try to be thankful?

So see, we kind of do some replacement theology.

In light of what God has done for you, why don�t you just be thankful?

Thankful that God would have somebody there to teach you the Bible, you and your children.

And this goes in so many areas of our lives, goes without saying,

it should be said, goes to the grammar police.

We just are unthankful people.

We just don�t have contentment like we should, and starting with the local church,

maybe there�s five things you could do at the end of this show, in 10 seconds, to say, I thank God that in the church that I�m

at, this, this, this, this, this happens.

My name is Mike Abendroth.

Don�t forget about Reformation 500, May 20th through 30th.

You can find that at info .no -compromise.

No Compromise Radio, with Pastor Mike Abendroth, is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West

Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church, firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of

God�s Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us.

Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6.

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