Who is the God of this world? Laborers' Podcast #godofthisworld #spiritualrealm

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Join the Laborers as they discuss a difficult passage and topic, 2 Corinthians 4:4.

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Welcome to the laborers podcast tonight. We're gonna try to answer the question
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Who is the God of this world according to 2nd Corinthians 4 verse 4 stick with us welcome to the laborers podcast which is a part of the truth in love network join us as together we strive to grow up together in all things into Christ subscribe and follow the truth and love network on Facebook YouTube rumble
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Spotify and iTunes now let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast welcome back have to do our maneuvering here to get us back on Facebook that's okay we'll make those changes really quickly
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I think you were disconnected you're gonna have to get reconnected brother how's everybody doing tonight good good
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Tyler with brother were podcast pastor John at vertical life Church in Newton North Carolina go check him out and our brothers and sisters at vertical life big
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John a real talk with big John find him on Spotify Providence perspective with Jay and tell oh you can find him on YouTube go check him out we're so thankful to be here together with you tonight the comment line is open let us know that you're watching give us a critique a question we'll try to answer your questions we'd love to pray for you as well who is the
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God of this world the one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast and and all the podcasts that we do is because of reference there may be somebody in the future that comes with stumbles across this verse hopefully they stumble across the reading through scripture if they're
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Christian and they see this and they and they say who is he talking about who is
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Paul talking about and they google it they find us on YouTube and they hear this conversation and we're able to help someone out a little bit answering this question and give them an opportunity to be a
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Berean hear what we have to say and line it up with scripture that's our goal by the way
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Jonathan I miss your rocking chair I know well I'm up I'm meeting upstairs tonight so I really have something big old fluffy chair tonight and we've we've got family coming in from out of town and so the rocking chair you pod at the moment so I don't need your rocking chair
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I do miss the rocking chair too I have to bring it back praise the Lord well let's go around with the first question we we
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J for badass from answering any questions prior to the podcast which is a good thing good thing so let's get
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Tyler started asking questions I'm like Tyler come on man we got it we got to record this before we start answering these questions so let's let's start with you
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Tyler the first question that we want to ask getting down to the the meat of all this according to 2nd
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Corinthians 4 4 which I can I can read real quick in whose case the
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God of this world has blinded the minds of unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel the glory of Christ who is the image of God so according to 2nd
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Corinthians 4 4 do you think Paul is telling us the God of this world is so my estimation from the text is that we are referring to to Satan to the enemy
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I think this is echoing what we see in John 12 when
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Jesus describes him as the prince of this world and does a similar treatment of Satan and a couple other sponsors the end of the book of John but ultimately
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I think we are seeing a a tax giving attention to Satan at work in the world of the church
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I'm pastor John what about you yeah
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I think from my best estimation I would agree with that as well I'd also reference
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John 12 where verse 31 now is the judgment of this world now with the ruler of this world be cast out and so Jesus is coming to to cast out the ruler of this world the
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Bible tells us that one of the works of Christ is to crush the head of the serpent where he comes to destroy the works of the devil and so so the
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God of this world and in my Bible it's a little G I think that's an important distinctive where it's little
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G God not capital G God and I think we'll get into that later you know so we have to be careful when we talk about authorities and those kind of things but just who it's talking about in my opinion would also be the enemy the old lion the one who seeks to kill still and destroy what about you
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Jay yeah I would agree I do believe it's but I would
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I would say one one important key I don't think that saying the
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God of this world is the best translation I think a better translation would be the
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God of this age because when we look at the the Greek it says theos to ionos to to it's it's literally saying the
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God of this age but I think there's some thought for thought translation happening there rather than some word -for -word translation and so that's why it's translated the way it is but we'll get into all that later so yeah where we get the word eon isn't it correct ionos eon it's all connected yep all right big
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John yes sir I'm in agreement I think one of the biggest things
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I always catch when I teach my kids or anybody is that first word what's your first word in chapter 4 say in chapter 4 verse 1 mm -hmm therefore yeah that's most important word right there mm -hmm because you got to ask yourself what my kids were here they'd say shut up dad but I'm gonna do it what's it there for you're everything that you're you're pivoting off of this word right here and right before that we see this here being transformed right so what you mean we can go in we can read the whole thing if you want to because I love it but now this now the
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Lord is is a spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there's freedom we all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the
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Lord and being transformed into the same image from glory to glory this is from the
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Lord who is in the Spirit therefore since we have this ministry we have received mercy we do not give up instead we have renounced shameful secret things not walking in deceit or distorting
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God's message but in God's sight we commend ourselves to every person's conscience by an open display of the truth but if in fact our gospel is veiled it is veiled to those who are perishing regarding them the
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God of this age has blinded the eyes of the unbelievers I think immediately of this how the enemy the seed eater who took the gospel seed off the hard road right and then and what brother
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John was saying I got a couple notes here he said 12 and he said
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John 12 and 31 I would also add 14 and 30 16 and 11 and maybe even
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Ephesians 2 2 but I mean so there's
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I think there's enough there's enough there in just a plain reading of the text where you wouldn't you wouldn't draw from that that that's anything other than the than the enemy the deceiver
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I want to say the kick do you mind if I jump in I wanted to make one distinction
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I earlier said I think a better translation would be the God of this age mm -hmm
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I don't think Satan is the God of this world anymore and we can talk about what that means and what that entails a little bit later but I just wanted to make that clear because if anybody didn't catch it why
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I wasn't making a distinction between world and age that's where I stand mm -hmm so just wanted to mention that real quick so can you can you further further make that distinction myself yeah well how much time do you have okay what you what you said earlier with this case is that the best translation is age but you were also with an agreement that he was talking about Satan in this passage right however you you just told us that Satan is not the
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God of this world anymore anymore yeah so he's the
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God of the age but not of the world right he was he was he was God he was the God of this world in a sense ultimately
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I would say the God of the world has always been God right but I mean we'll get into how we define
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God in the first place but I'll say this okay so well let me think about this
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I know what I'm thinking but I want to kind of explain myself well while you gather your thoughts
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Jay could I make one comment one cross yeah yeah sure I think what we're saying to in a distinctive it depends on what you're referring as God and that's why
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I said this is a little G God versus a capital G God right and so there's never been a moment in all of creation that capital
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G God Yahweh was not absolutely sovereign king and ruler and owner of all things that does not mean that capital
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G God did not give little G God some form of authority in the earth for example the story of Job where God says if you consider my servant
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Job and so then he he gave Job the authority to do some extremely destructive things to Job but not take his life you know so killed his family lost all of its land lost all of his goods lost his health trucking with all kinds of things and how all that come about we don't know other than you know it was by the hand of the enemy of Satan and then we also know like the root of sin in the world was modeled after this little
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G God even a liar from the beginning like he lied to Adam and Eve surely you can eat this you won't die and so therefore as the seed of sin came into the world it was by the hand of the temptation of the serpent which we know is is the devil and so so therefore the model of lying and sinning in the world actually originated with that so so the little
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G God is it when we're talking about that in my opinion would have to be the god of the fallen world but he is not
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God or reigning over the redeemed of the world and that's why we have the writing on Colossians chapter 113 says he has delivered us from the domain of darkness so so those that are delivered we're delivered from the domain of darkness we're no longer under the rule or or or any of that of darkness at all because we're light and light always expels darkness so as Christ came and rules and reigns over the earth it doesn't mean there's still not a domain of darkness in the earth it's not completely expelled from the earth so there are those that the gospel is still veiled to by the little
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G God of this world but now we have this ministry and I think that's important there in Corinthians talking about this ministry of reconciliation that we have and what is that ministry of reconciliation you are the light of the world the city set on a hillside first John says light always dispels darkness so now it's no longer that we're under the domain of darkness but now darkness is under our domain of the church even under the authority of Christ and so so so there's still a little
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G God in the world that does have a domain but he's no longer the ruler or the prince of the air or those kind of things so so there's two there's multiple distinctions there so I think that I think we all would agree with that there's never been a second moment in time that Satan has had sovereign authority over anything that belongs to God and God alone but then there is the domain that God has given
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Satan authority in and I've often asked the question why and that's one of those things that it's you know we can have a tons of conversation about but really truth of the
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Bible is relatively silent on why other than to disturb it demonstrate God's just you know and the earth and those kind of things but you know but at the end of the day there is there is some domain of kingdom of light and kingdom of darkness that's still very real and there is still the work of the enemy to attempt to destroy the works of the cross but it's a futile effort you know it's
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I think you're right I think where we might have a point of contention
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I'm not saying you Jonathan per se I'm saying just all amongst us it's how much authority does
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Satan really have at this point so you know when we look at right exactly that's where it gets interesting right so when we look at a 2nd
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Corinthians 4 4 and I say well he's the god of this age I believe that Paul was quite literally referring to the
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Old Covenant age why well the temple the Jewish temple right was still up and running people were still thinking that the temple was necessary for their remission of sins right they were they were still deceived by the
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God of that present age which Hebrews 8 13 somewhere around there it tells us that was ready to pass away right this
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Old Covenant age was ready to pass away not that it had already passed away but that it was coming to a close at the time that the
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New Testament was being written and eventually did pass away with the destruction of the temple in 70
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AD when Jerusalem was destroyed now Satan like I said at one point he indeed was in some sense the ruler of the world right you guys referred to it
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Jesus in John 12 you know he feels his soul troubled he tells us that you know this was now as he gets closer to his death the time for him to be lifted up and in verse 31
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I believe it's when he tells us that now will the ruler of this world be cast out notice he doesn't say when
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I return or when I come to rule for a thousand years will the ruler of this world be cast out no he says now so after Christ died and rose again one of the last things that he told his disciples is all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me
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Matthew 28 18 right a lot of people know that one he doesn't say all authority has been given to me but only in heaven nor does he say all authority in heaven and over my church has been given to me no he says all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him there's really one ruler of this world and his name is
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Jesus Christ okay now there is someone here that you know
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I think of it like the Colombian gorillas gorillas I don't know how you guys call them yes hiding out in the woods you know pretending like they own the place and sometimes they'll do horrible things right they'll come in and attack a town and kill people and it's horrible but they're they're losing and they're they're continuing to lose and they have no real control over the country of Colombia they're not the ruler right they're a pretender it's the same thing with Satan is he is he prowling around like a roaring lion yeah he is but is he the ruler of this world no he's not
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Jesus Christ this well if I could if I can take us to Job 1 for just a moment
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I knew he's doing it I got excited when Jonathan brought up Job but I think that Job does a good job of illuminating some things about this distinction we're trying to establish that while we were talking about God lowercase g that there there is a hierarchy here that God is
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God is supreme and Satan is accountable to God yep and Job does a really interesting way of of demonstrating this through dialogue and so in Job chapter 1 verse 6 so there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the
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Lord and Satan came also among them that despite the fact that we're talking about him as the
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God of this world or the prince of this world or the this and that he is still obligated to go before God come on now brother verse 7 and the
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Lord says unto Satan whence comest thou where have you come from because we know that God is not bound to physical space
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God is as they say he's everywhere but Satan is not and then
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Satan answers the Lord and said from going to and fro in the earth from walking up and down in it that we are basically told that Satan just moves from place to place like he's bound almost like he's bound to a body that is not how
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God operates and the Lord said unto Satan hath thou considered my servant
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Job there are things he does not know hath thou considered my servant
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Job there is none like him in the earth a perfect and upright man one that feareth God in his shoe with evil and at the end of the conversation the
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Lord says unto Satan behold all that he hath is in thy power because it wasn't eight seconds ago and so while we flesh out what we mean by this phrase the
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God of this age there are still ontological differences between Yahweh and Satan between the guy who was and is and is to come and this being we call
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Satan the ancient serpent that deceives the whole world that there are massive differences it's not we've got the little angel and the little devil on your shoulders and they're all equally matched come on now there is a there's a hierarchy here so while he's described as the prince of the age it's not because you have this equally matched kingdom of God versus the kingdom of Satan I think that's important to nail down as we flush this out before we get into post -millennialism and all this so I'd like to add to what you're saying if I can we see this we'll see the same thing we see this same thing when
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Jesus is ministering on this earth if we'll turn to John chapter 18 you can go to 34 we can read more of it if you're scared that I'll take it out of context or we can start 34 it's fine this is
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Jesus before Pilate well 33 so Pilate went back up to headquarters and someone Jesus said him are you the king of the
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Jews and Jesus says are you asking on your own or do you have others ask about me it's a mighty to Pilate that must seem like a mighty arrogant thing for somebody to ask right whenever that whenever the ruler of this region the boss ask you a question and you ask him a question like is you really want to know or somebody are you doing this for somebody and he says
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I'm not a Jew Emma as a pilot saying he don't have a dog in the hunt and your own nation the chief priest handed you over to me what have you done he says what my kingdom is not of this world and Jesus says if my kingdom were of this world my servants would fight so that I wouldn't be handed over to the
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Jews as it is my kingdom does not have its origin here this is are you a king then
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Pilate asked he said you say that I'm a king I was born for this I came into this world for this to testify to truth everyone who is who is of the truth listens to me right and an argument could be made that two kings are sitting there having a conversation and one
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King owns the land of every of everything including the land that that King is on but that King doesn't surrender to the authority of the one that's over him now in most cases this would result in one would have to one would have to kill the other right if we were looking at secular regular human history but this is something that it is
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Jesus's kingdom is so superior to this what I think Jesus is saying is like look little guy is this is so beyond you that I'm not even going to spend time talking about this and and that's what the
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King of glory is so beyond anything of this earth because he made it he's just more he's so much more valuable than it just like a builder of a house is more valuable than the house and I think that it is possible to say that you have kings on this earth that aren't the king of the earth right that's why
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I says he's the king of kings Lord of Lords there are others that claim the title but their opinion of it is irrelevant and and that I would say where that kind of weighs in and bridges between what
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Tyler was reading in the book of Job and the idea that the that the temple being a place that people felt like they had to go to I don't want to I don't want to take what you say in jail and being out of context after the resurrection the temple has no purpose in the
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Christians life you know there's there's no holy of holies to visit or sacrifices to give the sacrifice of sin has already been given once and for all so it would be irrelevant to go slaughter a horse or donkey or whatever you want to kill you know
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I know they wouldn't have done that there would have been cows and and sheep but the fault that somebody has that says well
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I need to go to the temple has no more bearing on the situation than Judas or pilot thinking that he's the governor of the king because you can think something's important that isn't important it doesn't really matter does that make sense it does it does connect can
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I make a quick rebuttal absolutely go ahead okay so what
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I believe and what I am saying when it comes to the destruction of the temple you know this could get real deep but I'm not gonna get into all of the details what
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I'm gonna say about that is this I do believe that God came in judgment that day over the people that rejected his son you talking about a 70
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AD that's correct so that I don't wanna make sure I'm tracking with you yeah yeah yeah so so I believe that was a judgment and so in that moment
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God said I have finished this this old way of doing things and you're gonna find out whether you like to accept it or not
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I'm gonna make a statement here so that you understand that that's not the way we do things anymore and so you're right right like you're correct and saying like it doesn't matter what people are doing or not but just to kind of put a stamp on it
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God was like yeah and because that's what you're doing instead of submitting to to the lordship of my son here's a going away present so to speak does that make sense well so it does it
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I understand what you're saying where I think we I think perspective has really messed with us on this so when when
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God destroys the temple in 70 AD that might be a judgment against Israel who has refused to worship
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Christ right but it is really a blessing because now there's no temple to that you can somehow confuse yourself right this this would be an area that I think qualifies to be one of those things that is both great and terrible right whenever it talks about the great and terrible day of the
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Lord you know for some it's terrible for some it's great it might not be the right way they're looking at it but in this case I can see where the where the church and those who are following Christ sit when the temple is destroyed
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I can imagine especially to those that were Jews born
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Jews that were converted there's probably something about it like oh man I hate that you know that was you know my
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I can think back when I was a kid and my grandparents took me and my parents took me and so much of their life was built around it but for their spiritual for spiritual health it's actually a good thing just like when
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Babylon Babel was destroyed in the end and all those had to disperse when they got with the like languages and went across the world the
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Christian at this point really has nothing tying him to Jerusalem now does he correct
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I was I was just gonna say something like going along think about this you know what did
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Jesus say about the temple to to the the Pharisees what does he say he says destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days yeah now what was he actually talking about his body his body yeah who is the body of Christ the church is our body a temple yes okay so put it all together what is the actual temple yeah that's that's what
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I'm saying that the temple at 70 AD that was destroyed right was of no more consequence and valuable to the church than Pilate standing before the
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King of Kings trying to ask him something it there's so much there's there's a there's a chasm of value between a between a busted up old building that people are gathering in where God's Spirit is vacant right versus the the the bride of Christ walking around on the earth where God's Spirit is present so that's what not really all that concerned about the historical significance
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I know there's a historical significance to 70 AD and to the to the temple being destroyed but to the church I've been asked piles of times that why is it that the most important thing in history wasn't documented in any of the epistles if they were written after 70
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AD and I've got to say the most sense that doesn't have anything to do with it with the church
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I don't think they were written after 70
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AD I wouldn't think you would yeah that's why but it's interesting you said something because it's kind of what we're talking about you know like John for the woman he says the the hour is coming and has already come with no one will worship on this mountain or that mountain right that's right because God's people what are they gonna do they're gonna be worshiping in spirit and in truth that's right right and so I do believe that there's a historical significance tied to everything that Jesus said to everything that the
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Apostles were saying again Hebrews 8 13 this is passing away this this time this
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Old Covenant practice is quickly passing away you know it's obsolete and God is gonna make sure that you know it's obsolete sure how does he how do we see that play out well he literally gets rid of the one place that Jews thought okay we still have this well there were synagogues that were continually being being dismantled from the inside because Paul was busting up the whole game by preaching the gospel in it right so there were places all over there were places all over the known world at the time where Jews had a place to go and gather and worship that weren't
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Jerusalem even though I know Jerusalem is you know the most important city for the for the
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Jewish religion but but they had hot spots and synagogues ever since they left out of Babylonia but Paul's busy busting those up with the gospel
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I think an easy argument could be made that what was causing those things to pass away was that gospel growing on the earth more than it was about the coming of a building being tore down well it's both it's both you're right it is it is the gospel being preached and then making the old pass away right like you have this overlap between Christ's death and resurrection and ascension and the final complete destruction of that temple in Jerusalem you said well they still had these hot spots you know synagogues and they still do have them
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I mean they're still right yeah and they still do but here's the question are any
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Jews today sacrificing animals no not to my knowledge I mean if they are they're not doing it in accordance with their own law correct right so I don't know let me call a timeout real quick on something though just to help us because like we can we can run down the rabbit hole and then it leads us to the eschatology my question to draw us back is what did
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Paul believe about the God of this world what did he write in other cross references about Satan what did
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John believe yeah the works of Satan in the kingdom of Satan because everything we're talking about is is is outside of Scripture we have cross references but we're talking historical context and what we believe happened in history
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I think it's really important for us to draw back just a little bit into like like if we're going to read out of this world is like what what did the
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Apostles believe about this world what did the possibly believe about the kingdom of darkness versus the kingdom of light what did
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Paul believe about those that are ensnared by the God of this world or as John says some are children of light and some are children of the devil so I think that's important in that because because I'm not disagreeing with what we're saying but again that's where we get into our interpretations and so I just want to cross back a little bit that's okay if it's fair can we can we attach your question to question number three because I think it relates
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I really do but I also want to interject this as well I think the back and forth that we're having between brothers and and digging into it a little bit more from different perspectives the reason why
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I think it's relevant and why maybe somebody who's listening you shouldn't dismiss the argument so this really has nothing to do with me
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I think it's because of the day and age that we live it's not like it used to be free internet where you had one one meal you had the same food at the at the meal every
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Sunday you we have the internet now and you you're getting different perspectives on every direction and so I think it's good to hear this conversation between brothers who hold the different perspectives that everybody's getting from all different sides so I appreciate you all of your kindness absolutely and all of your perspectives and so you guys are doing a great job and I appreciate it so to attach what
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John was saying to question number three because you you guys have already answered question number two basically why do some people believe that Satan this passage is referring to Satan and if you guys can put yourself in in the other shoes if if Paul is referring to Satan why do some people believe it's
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Yahweh if you I know I know Tyler you said that you've not heard that there are groups that believe that I've heard that and and full transparency if somebody was to ask me nail down your stance on this
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I don't know that I would be able to at this moment that's why I was looking forward to this conversation you guys to be learning from you and hear what you have to say because when when
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I look at this and look in the rest of Scripture I see that okay this blinding from this veiling from seeing the gospel from the evidence of what we've seen other places in Scripture it's not outside the wheelhouse of what
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God has done in other places where he's hardened Pharaoh's heart and then also and and I know
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I know it touches on the the partial perspective but if if it is true that Satan has been cast out he and he's being forbidden from deceiving the nations then if that's true then how how does he have the authority now to avail someone to blind them if he that authority and power has been taken from him so that's that's kind of where I say that just to say that's where I am and and where I'm struggling so so back to Jonathan and Jonathan's question and why do you guys think some people believe it might be
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Yahweh in this passage the only thing
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I can think of is kind of like what you already said okay that you know God has done these kinds of things in the past right where he hardened
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Pharaoh's heart or you know he makes Nebuchadnezzar you know eat grass although of course he used that as a positive but I can't think of anything else beyond that I'm really not sure so the only thing
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I could think of and I'm not getting that turn Emma no so I'm I say fix what's he say
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I can't quote the whole chapter but whenever Isaiah says you know woe is me
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I'm undone lips and I do among the people of unclean lips and fast -forward
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God says who will go for us and he says I'll go who will go he said here I am send me his first nine he said go and say the people keep listen don't understand keep looking don't perceive dull the minds these people and deafen their ears and blind their eyes otherwise they might see with their eyes here with their hearts understand what their minds turn back and be healed then
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I said until when Lord and he said until the city's line ruins but inhabitants and houses or without people and land is ruined and desolate and the
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Lord drives the people far away leaving great emptiness in the land do it though a tenth will remain in the land it will be burned again like the temperance temperance anyway or the oak which leaves a stump and failed and the holy seed is the stump
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I would have to say that there's only two portions in scripture that make me think that someone will have a leg to stand on it would be that one but the thing against it is we see
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Jesus we see Jesus come against that or not really come against that but more or less say that he's fulfilling that whenever he tells them that if they would believe they would they would otherwise ever paint he tells everybody not to tell anybody that he's the
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Christ unless they believe and would turn from their sin and obviously this is pre -crucifixion right so this is a sovereign
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God saying there's a way I want this to go and the way I want this to go would be different if people are people are telling everybody that I'm the
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Christ that so that would be the only two portions of scripture or I see where God is asking for someone to be blinded from the truth and in both cases it's for a temporary state every other time we see somebody who is blinding eyes or dimming people is when the deceiver is doing that when you reading that passage reminds me of Jesus conversation with the disciples concerning parables that's right he tells them you know there they will have you know further judgment if they you know completely understood the truth the knowledge of what he was explaining or teaching in those parables so he spoke in parables so they didn't have that full knowledge and full therefore full accountability perhaps maybe that's case yeah
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I'll throw in something else to just from a word study standpoint that where it can be confusing is the word those if you do a
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Greek study it's it's the same term used for God capital
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G God or face lower G gods or divinities or other things of like that so so Greek to Greek to Greek you know as you go along it can be confusing in that and so that somebody could make that argument where I arrived in a word study of it though and I think that's where the translation of most translations of using a lower
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G God in that is accurate is because most of the time in the
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Greek when they're talking about the one true God usually there there is a it's like a partisan article that's attached with Theos it's
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X to Theos usually has a has a an additional presupposition article that's attached to that Greek Theos when it's talked about the one true
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God that is not the case in this Greek translation and so that's why the translators use the little
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G God so you know but but I could see how that could be confusing because if you just use the word
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Theos that that in of itself can be it just means
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God in the Greek world Theos means God but the context or the particle presupposition article rather that's attached to it a lot of times is where we get the one true
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God you know those kind of terminologies and stuff like that so in this case in 2nd Corinthians 4 or 4 you know it is just the word
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Theos and so so then I then you have to run to context but so I don't worry that that may be one argument that someone would use to cross -reference that with other words of Theos and then then everything else that y 'all talked about you know that that we know that God does as he wills and turns the hearts and minds as kings and rivers and you know when he you know so so I can see where the argument can be made you know but contextually
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I would still disagree simply because Paul is talking about the ministry of reconciliation the
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God of this world is blind of the eyes and then later in the context it's one of my favorite verses that God who spoke light out of darkness you know speaks into the hearts of those that are blinded by the
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God in this world and the cross -reference is let there be light and God grants light to shine out of darkness and so those that are veiled by the
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God of this world the authority of God the Father speaks into the hearts of men and says let there be light and it was so and therefore light always dispels the darkness is talking about a work of regeneration so in the context of the whole chapter
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I would still fall under G God Satan and Paul is just making the argument that God commands dark light to come out of darkness and commands something to come out of nothing just demonstrating
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God's authority and then he goes on to talk about jars of clay how we now hold this gift and these jars of clay the surpassing power may belong to God so so the whole chapter is really about the sovereignty and the power of God over all things and the preeminence and supremacy of Christ over all things and so I think that's why
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Paul is still making an argument anyways not to make that argument more but I just you know but I but it just in this verse
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I can see what could be confusing but but I think it's a stretch to try to make it mean
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Yahweh all right right I would agree with you sorry I had to leave like that for a second fuzzles family emergency
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I think it's been really cool really interesting and very cool that those of us here from different eschatological perspectives or predators partial predators perspective non partial prayers perspective come from different directions but here
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Jonathan you were talking about what is what does Paul believe what is all saying in this verse in this chapter that we've come from different directions but we've kind of landed in a similar spot so that's been pretty cool well
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I like you know I was gonna say one thing I mean this isn't an issue just in the
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New Testament like we see in the Old Testament Elohim right which mean it's which actually don't we have a question about that right like Psalm 82 6 right uses that terminology right where it says
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I say you are God sons of the most sons of the God most high right or of the most high all of you but if you look at the original translation it literally uses the word
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Elohim well that makes sense yeah so so that can get confusing right and where it's really tricky is when
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Jesus applies that verse to the Pharisees yeah when he says I tell you that you are God's right right so but that's what
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Jonathan was talking about how like we need to get the whole context of how that word is being used and not just assume well you know this is talking about Yahweh because there's only one
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God no there's a sense in which the Bible affirms that human beings are quote -unquote gods in a sense but we have to be very careful with that because then we get into like things like little gods theology and things like that and it gets kind of wild right like I don't want to say too much more but I will say this like when when scripture is talking about human beings as gods or even
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Satan as a god it's having a certain kind of quality that is similar to God right we are made in the image of God does that make us literal gods well no we're not gods right
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I can't you know I can't be like Thor that'd be great if I have his body instead of well maybe not in the last few movies right
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I think you're kind of impressive than you think it is
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I can just say that right now no that was no that's really good
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Jay and that's kind of the direction that I wanted to take it pulling out from Psalm 82 6 because 2nd
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Corinthians 4 Paul is referring to Satan as the god of this world well most of us are only familiar with using the term
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God and associating with Yahweh so why why does scripture use
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God in a different context different with a different understanding and we can see that not only is it used to describe
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Satan but it's also used to describe people like you're referring to so how could help us understand
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Psalm 82 and how it helps us understand 1st or 2nd
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Corinthians 4 how are you want to jump anybody else won't jump in well just to use another example honestly outside of the
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God's realm just go back to Genesis 3 when we're told that God was walking in the cool of the day and he called out to Adam and said where are you and we would infer that God did not know where Adam was but I don't think that's entirely true because I don't think
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God had lost Adam but that he is communicating something about this dynamic to us that looks like that but yet God is still beckoning
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Adam to come unto him he knows where he is he's not fooled but in that moment
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God is okay communicating himself in that way for a poetic purpose and similarly
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I think we can look at Psalm 82 in that sense with this idea of of God's in this that let me pull it up actually
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Psalm 82 that while we are all in agreement that God is alone there is a as as Jay was saying that there's a similitude that we might drop from the poetry talk about the
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Pharisees talking about Satan that in the Pharisees views in their ideology they were gods in one sense of the term that they were the arbiter of right and wrong they were the determining factor in righteousness and wickedness they were the judge of humanity and it was
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I don't think out of line for Jesus to say in your view you are gods and you shall be judged like these gods in Psalm 82 but Psalm 82 says
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God standeth in the congregation of the mighty and he judges among the gods how long will you judge unjustly and accept the persons of the wicked and then he says defend the poor and fatherless so now we're going to something almost human ish in regards to these these gods that he's judging over defend the poor and fatherless do justice to the afflicted and the needy deliver the poor and needy rid them out of the hand of the wicked they know not neither will they understand they walk on in darkness all the foundations of the earth are out of course and I have said ye are gods and all of you are children of the
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Most High but ye shall die like men and fall like one of the princes arise
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O God judge the earth for thou shalt inherit all nations that's the whole psalm and so it seems that we're using this word
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God in reference to things that are not Yahweh that we're
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I think we're talking about I think we're talking about Pharaoh I think we're talking about the kings of the earth who have dealt wicked right because oftentimes there is a correlation between idolatry and tyranny because tyranny is an idol when a person sets them up sets himself up and does wickedness that they create an idol in their own image agreed
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I think the modern age has very much been a testimony to that more often than not and so I said ye are gods but all of you shall die like men that though you put yourselves up on a pedestal as the arbiter of goodness while be inwardly wicked you shall die like men you shall die like as though you were equal to the people you have oppressed yeah so don't we have election year this year and there's going to be a ton of little
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G gods parading around as if they are the saviors of the nation yeah
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I mean that's that's like it don't matter what your political preferences are at this point just make that statement you know
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I'm sure we all have political convictions but I'm just saying but all of them are going to be parading around as if but but go back to Jay's statement that was very right in this
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Psalm 82 it's the same thing as Theos Elohim and Elohim are used twice here but there's only one
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Elohim that judges the nations so that's why in the
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English version again just for those that in none of us I would say here we consider ourselves hyper
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Hebrew scholars or Greek scholars you know oh come on now but praise the Lord there are tons of of apps and all kinds of stuff that really make it easy so if you're a listener don't be overly impressed by us quoting
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Hebrew terms or Greek terms just know you can find this same information even without seminary degrees so I hope
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I hope you'll do that so it's beautiful even been to seminary yeah yeah yeah it's got a few degrees it don't matter though I'm just saying you have enough degrees to give you a fever but it don't make you a man of God so so anyway sorry that's a
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Johnny Hunt statement but uh the word that but but just for those that are trying to interpret
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I think most of the time the translators get it pretty right and little
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G and capital G and then Psalm 82 6 it's a little G and verse 6 you are God's sons of the
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Most High that's a little G but then if you go to verse 8 arise Oh God and judge the earth that's capital
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G and so they're both in the Hebrew Elohim Elohim verse 6 is Elohim little G God verse 8 capital
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G God and so I think the authors are really trying to capture or the translators rather are really trying to capture the intent of the author and and who is the one true
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God and so you know but I think you guys have done an excellent job on that I don't think
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I can add anything else other than just try to throw that in there and give affirmation everything you guys were said you know amen praise the
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Lord mm -hmm the simple the simplified a little bit can we we say that it's referring to the opposition a place of power like in in the other countries in past in years gone by you would refer to someone as a
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Lord yeah I mean some Psalm 82 6 Tyler mentioned it right like it's referring to rulers and things like that and then we see it again in here in 2nd
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Corinthians 4 right describing this status of Satan in the current age that it's written as a ruler right it's it's he it's just describing him as a ruler so it's pointing it really
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I mean if you really think about it this is all pointing back to the ultimate authority of God himself because it's like you know to even describe what a tiny bit of what
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I have here what what is this thing called authority is being compared to what
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God has all of right which is authority so it's it's like a like saying like you are a
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God in the sense that you have a little bit of authority just like he has all authority mm -hmm does that make sense
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I hope I didn't butcher that too badly yeah staying with this theme of man's relationship with God of course we're gonna be jumping down because we we pretty much answered a lot of these questions already children of God and children of the devil is that does
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God have children and the devil have children and how what does that look like what do we mean when
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Jesus said that some people are children of Satan so so yes
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I was just gonna say in John 3
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I believe right that's when when it says that you know whoever came to faith in Jesus whoever believed in his name
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God gave the right or he gave the right to become children of God yeah so they are there are children of God that's right but we we we become children of God by being adopted through faith in Jesus Christ that's right same author in a book or so earlier says that if you are a liar your father was a liar and in the beginning of life so it's not much of a leap to say that's
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Satan but he's talking about and all those who are not in Christ are of Satan in that sense as they're his children or his followers
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I suppose first John chapter three like 8 verses 8 through 10 like explicitly like lay it out very very clearly whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil for the devil has been sinning from the beginning that's what
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John was quoting right then and the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil so so that's that's wonderful to know
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I missed the organ no one born of God makes a practice of sinning doesn't mean that we're impeccable but we don't make a practice of it we're still capable of failure but little children are right this first on again that you may not sin but if you do we have an advocate so it's not saying we're impeccable but we don't continue practicing saying we hate our sin right then he goes on to say though for for God seed abides in him he cannot keep on sinning because he's been born of God so there's it's we're gonna be chastised we've been born of God we're children of God then he goes and then he goes on to say though by this it is evident who are the children of God and who are the children of the devil who does not practice righteousness is not of God nor the one who does not love his brother so so John just like say this it's just obvious and there are two families in the earth there's the family of God and there's the family of Satan and and then
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I think then you can run into the like the Romans nines and those kind of things the where there is an elect there is
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God's people and there's people that are not of God there's those that are that are fitted for destruction and those that are fitted for redemption and so on and so forth
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I mean like there's there's a clear economy because of Christ and the evidence of that is the children of God sin is passing away and for the devil sin is increasing it's becoming more and more evil as the days abound for it for for that family for the family of God sanctification is happening and sin is being put to death and the the life of Christ manifested in his mortal bodies and so that's so I do think there's two families and and I mean
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John just says it pretty explicitly one thing one thing I'll say quickly that has not really anything to do with this question but Jonathan you touched on it you know there are some people out there that will say that no if you know if if you're a
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Christian you literally never sin anymore I mean it happens or that you will get to a point where you never sin anymore but you know it's funny whoever says that he has no sin is a lie and the truth that is not but even if that were the case
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I mean how do you deal with even like passages like Romans 7 right I would I would point somebody who is doubting their salvation if you're watching this you're doubting your salvation you're wondering
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I can't stop sinning or I'm struggling with sin I'm not saying that's a good thing that is a bad thing but just go read
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Romans 7 and see what Paul had to say about his own struggles with sin so just side note yeah and Jonathan you kind of answer my next question which was based on what you what you said
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I think we can be I think we're faithful to the Bible when we say that you're either in one or two camps you're either children of God and you basically described that scenario yeah so we're hit we're running on the home there's no lukewarm there's no lukewarmness one foot in both worlds you know there's there's there's no margin of difference there so yeah no neutrality right that's right so we're on the home stretch and we're heading on the same theme here with this last question before we get to the gospel so so why share the gospel if people are blinded and veiled oh that's a easy one
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I did I pitch the softball to you oh yeah we're told we're literally told to go share the gospel he doesn't give us a carve -out he doesn't give us there's no highlighted section of people that says this is these are the people you teach the gospel and preach the gospel to just you just go do you know you go do what he said mm -hmm and ain't no reason to overthink it yeah that's it let me read another scripture and the
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Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone able to teach which is also proclamation of the gospel able to teach patiently enduring evil so there's patience in this patiently enduring evil correcting his gentleness so like gentleness and that God may perhaps not guaranteed but that God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth and they may come to their senses and this is where in the context of our conversation not that they may escape the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will you know so they've been captured and snared by the devil so then by the teaching of the gospel patient insistent gentle consistent teaching of the gospel then by that God works out repentance in someone that they escape that snare that they've been ensnared with of the devil and so the devil is looking to ensnare kill steal and destroy and and but God by the preaching of the gospel there's deliverance of that God grants repentance by the and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the
01:00:27
Word of God you know so so I think the scripture just tells us and then going back to 2nd Corinthians we've already talked about that you know but I will get to preaching if I get into 2nd
01:00:37
Corinthians 4 because that is one of my favorite chapters of the Bible to preach the gospel through but it is by the preaching of the gospel in the face of Jesus Christ that the light of God shines on the hearts of men and out of darkness
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God commands light to come it is it is by the preaching of the gospel that that darkness is dispelled so and of course like I said we're just told to do it so good good don't hide the light shine that light amen um
01:01:07
John I'd love love for you to share the gospel and Jay if you'll close us in prayer but I want to give
01:01:15
Tyler the last word if you had anything that you had been thinking about I wanted to throw in there so we're trying to land this plane here talking about the devil talking about his role in the world today and when we're first introduced to him in Genesis 3 he he's in the form of a snake he's very very crafty the text says and by the end of the story by the end end of this the
01:01:50
Bible we get to Revelation and the snake has become a dragon and we're told that's right there is where we're given the name
01:01:59
Satan in relationship to the serpent in Eden is that the dragon who is called the devil and Satan the old serpent who deceiveth the whole world and right after that statement is made in Revelation 12 we're told that he will be cast down that he will be he will be subject to judgment and as we deal with phrases like the
01:02:26
God of this this age to get out of this world or the prince of this world is Jesus calls him in John 12 the dragon is going to be cast down he's been cast out of this world as we've established but he's going to be cast down in other sense and he will crawl in his belly as this as was promised in Genesis 3 wherever we land on eschatology that is where we're going is we are going to a
01:02:54
Satan less world let's teach the gospel to it so what does this mean for those who've made it this long and you don't know the
01:03:06
Lord and you heard a bunch of you much heard a bunch of conversation that sounded familiar and some of it didn't sound familiar if if anything that you heard tonight was completely alien to you know this that from the time that you were born until this very moment you were born deceived and a grave was waiting for you it was appointed unto you when you were born wants to die and after this the judgment and because of the sin that you inherited from your father and he takes that all the way back to Adam the first man whenever you pass away the only
01:03:43
Avenue or the only place that you're going to go is a place called hell and the good news is which is what the word gospel means the good news is is that God made a way of escape
01:03:57
God came down took on man's flesh or took on the appearance of man become fully
01:04:04
God and fully man and and his name is Jesus he walks out of world or walks out in this world perfect something we could not do and as this perfect sinless person goes to the cross and dies a death that he did not deserve because the wages of sin is death but where there is no sin there can be no death so he dies which
01:04:30
I still think we need to take more time to really breathe on that and then three days later he rises from the dead and all those who put their faith in him and his finishing work on Calvary and his finishing work really in the resurrection he gives eternal life it's not by works it's not by merit it's not by by who your your parents are or aren't there's no curve that he's this is this is his way or no way right and you can feel completely assured that if you put your faith and your trust in him same way you put your faith and your trust in a parachute if you jumped out of a perfectly good airplane or an airplane that was crashing that he'll be faithful and just to save you on that day of judgment that that you'll enter in to his presence and and truthfully it's even as good as that is and as much as you can shout forever about salvation and being able to spend eternity in heaven it actually is even better than that in that he'll take up resident in you and you'll have a relationship with with the creator with God Almighty and and when you read his word it will make sense because he'll he'll teach you his word and the things that you are to say tonight will no longer be alien thoughts to you because the word the man who breathed this word that the
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God who breathed this word into existence will be the same one who interprets this word for you and he'll guide you in all truth he'll lead you in all truth he's as faithful to do that just simply because he said he was he's not a man that he should lie if you're watched tonight and you know every word we said here but it has never made a difference here if you're an educated person who spent days reading this book just to have great arguments with people online or in storefronts let this let this change your heart have this mind in you that is in Christ Jesus though that he's got a different to honor stuff as God but take on the form of a sovereign be a humble and repent of your sin and put your faith in Christ not in your own intellect and the things that you understand and live put your faith in Christ and live it is it it's that hard and it's that simple and he's he's that good of a
01:07:00
God there's not I cannot words fail me my tongue my tongue completely fails me at producing a sentence that would tell you how good
01:07:09
God is and the mercies that await those who call on him I can't I can't put into words how good this gospel is that's all
01:07:19
I got those the
01:07:26
Heavenly Father I want to thank you for the opportunity to fellowship and have this conversation with these dear brothers and I thank you for anybody might have been watching and listening
01:07:40
Lord I pray that we have been faithful to your word
01:07:45
I pray that that this has made sense to those who who are trying to make sense of it
01:07:52
Lord I pray that that through your Holy Spirit anybody that might be listening may come to a knowledge of the truth as John was saying
01:08:04
Lord if someone is lost today Lord we pray for their salvation we pray that you replace that heart of stone with a heart of flesh that you make them new
01:08:16
Lord that you forgive them of their sins once again Lord I thank you for the men in this conversation
01:08:24
I pray that you bless each one of them bless their families and bless anyone listening Lord let us do everything for your glory let us live for you in Jesus name
01:08:33
Amen amen amen I praise the Lord for each of you I'm so thankful for you and I'm thankful for each of you who are watching we appreciate your support here at the labors podcast and truth of love
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Network we're just here to share with you God's Word and the good news of gospel thank you for watching and we hope to see you soon thank you for joining the laborers podcast remember