THE HERE I STAND THEOLOGY PODCAST Interview with Jeremiah Nortier The Dangers of Full Preterism

All right, y 'all, so I want you to take a look at this.

What we know is the Great Commission. Has it been fulfilled? Yes, and it wasn't fulfilled in our lifetime. It was fulfilled in the first century. The reason that the commission had to be fulfilled is because the gospel had to go to the Gentiles and the kingdom, the new covenant kingdom, had to be built and expanded, and it was.

And that was the picture. And it was necessary that the gospel reach all of these inhabited people in the known world in order that the second coming might happen. It had to happen then, and I believe with all my heart, according to the testimony of the scripture, that it did happen.

You need to hold on to your britches for this one. It's going to be a good one. We've got Jeremiah Nortier on with us. The apologetic dog, hang tight, we'll be right back.

The Here I Stand Theology Podcast is a ministry of Rev. Ramada Baptist Church and a member of the Truth In Love Network. Please consider heading over to YouTube, Spotify, or your podcatcher of choice and subscribing to the Here I Stand Theology Podcast today.

Unless by scripture and by plain reason, and not by popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, my conscience is captive to the word of God, I'm not safe. Welcome to the Here I Stand Theology Podcast.

Here I stand, I can do no other. God help me. So the Here I Stand Theology Podcast is a ministry of Rev. Ramada Baptist Church, of which I am an elder and a pastor alongside the two other elders that serve there.

So we are accountable for the things that we say and we are accountable for the theology that we communicate. Today, we're not going to waste any time. We're going to get right into the episode. We have with us Jeremiah Nortier.

If you want to sound fancy, it's Nortier. If you're just country, it's Nortier. And we'll let him tell us what his wife calls him due to a traumatic scar that was left on him in his basketball days. In any case, let's bring in Jeremiah, Jeremiah Nortier, the apologetic dog.

Hey, I appreciate that standing ovation. I felt that. So I got to tell people, so I used to play basketball, I was point guard, and the announcers would announce my name, Jeremiah High Flying, and then they would always get my last name.

Wrong.

And so my favorite mispronunciation was Nortier, and I'm like, that will always stick with.

Me.

And so my wife reminds me of that. She calls me Jeremiah Nortier, and I'm like, thanks, babe.

Well, let me, I should have read this in the beginning, but I'm going to go ahead and read this now. Jeremiah's bio is as follows. He was born and raised, according to his bio, right here in Jonesboro, Arkansas.

He is here in Jonesboro, Arkansas. I am not here in Jonesboro, Arkansas. I am in Knoxville, Tennessee. So we're coming at you live from Ramsey Manor in the studio. Needless to say, Jeremiah attended Westside High School, graduated from Arkansas State University.

He's been in ministry now for seven years. His love for God, theology, and apologetics, and people are evident as he teaches the saints. And I got to say amen to that from what I've seen online, brother.

He and his wife, Allie, have been married since 2015, and she has been continually his number one supporter in the ministry, as should the case be, my brother. A good wife is a hard thing to find.

That is so true. I'm going to add one more thing in there. We have a six-month-old baby boy, JJ Nortier. We adopted the day he was born. It was the hand of God, and we refer to him as the apologetic puppy a lot of times.

Praise the Lord. And what's his name again?

JJ. Jude Jeremiah. Awesome. Fantastic.

Well, congratulations on that too. Thank you. So Jeremiah, I know I read your bio, but tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got to be where you are, particularly, let's start with your testimony.

Absolutely. Well, I grew up in church, and so I praise the Lord for that. That guarded me from a lot of things that could have happened differently. I was raised in a Christian home, and I believe the Lord saved me when I was 14 years old.

I knew all the facts about the gospel, but I remember being 14, I watched someone else's testimony. The pastor came over to the house that evening, and I was just clawed so convicted over my.

Sin.

I was just weeping. I knew I was simply a fan of Jesus, not a follower, and I just wanted to give it all.

To Him.

I remember that so clearly when I was 14 years old. Back in 2006, I wrote the date down, October 6th, 9 .20 p .m., and I know not everybody has that, but I'll never forget that was recommended to do. From 14, I truly believe I was made right before God, but Claude, I don't recall just a ton of sanctification in my life when I was 14 until I was about 21 in college.

That's where God just really grabbed a hold of my heart. Massive sanctification. I realized, what am I doing with my life? I need to be in the Word. I want to know my Lord and Savior more and more, and that is the sphere also I began to have the call to ministry.

That's just a quick flyover version.

Praise the Lord. That is great. You serve at 12 .5 Church. Tell us about the 12 .5 Church.

I have to tell you, Claude, 12 .5 Church is an amazing place. We are a church plant coming up on three years, and so I've been here from literally the very get-go serving with Pastor Nathan Hargrave as well.

We started out with just his family and my family, zero dollar budget, zero other families. Three years later, we have close to 60 members. Our budget, I would just say we are very blessed. We are looking to relocate with a bigger facility, all these things, and it's just the hand of.

God.

God has absolutely pressed upon my heart and Nathan's heart to facilitate a gospel culture, one where true discipleship can happen, to where not only hospitality and fellowship can happen, but also learning sound doctrine and learning theology, and people understand how important that is, and that's how you flourish in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

We are to grow into these things. So 12 .5 Church is in Jonesboro, Arkansas, so if you're in Northeast Arkansas, please look us up. We would love for you to come and visit and check out our fellowship.

Claude, I'll tell you something very different that we do. After the sermon, usually that's the close of a service, you know, our service keeps going. It goes straight into what we call Koinonia Feast.

The early church had that love feast. We have men, women, every Sunday bring so much food, bring enough for you and your family, and then a little bit extra, and you would be amazed with all the food that we have.

But we get a time of sweet fellowship every week, and I mean, we eat for a while, and then afterwards we have sermon Q &A, sermon discussion, to where almost everyone stays for that, and then we do our benediction after the sermon Q &A.

And so I just, every week we get hours upon hours of sweet fellowship, not just minutes upon minutes where you turn around and greet your neighbor. Anyway, that's a little bit about my church home.

That's a blessing. So tell us how the name came about, 12 -5.

Oh, man, that's funny. I give Pastor Nathan a hard time about this because he's the visionary there, because I remember us talking about future church plant names, things that he was excited about, and he wanted to stand distinct within Jonesboro because Jonesboro is the city of churches.

And so he wanted something that was a little bit distinct. And so 12 -5 comes from Romans 12, verse 5. That's a reverse reference to the church body. Though we are individually one of another, we are one together in the body of Christ.

And so we're Reformed Baptists. You don't really see that advertised. I mean, we are just evangelical church. But when you come on the inside, there is a zeal for robust, sound theology. And we contend for that with love, with grace.

And we tell people in order to have a right understanding of who man is, a right biblical anthropology, you need to have first a right understanding of who God is in His sovereignty. And when you kind of start with that foundation, everything seems to line from there and flow from there.

And it's just been phenomenal. In fact, on our Wednesday nights, we do discipleship. I'm teaching the youth in First John, and they'll have me come over to the adults. And I love getting like I taught on the Trinity not too long ago.

But the adults are going through R .C. Sproul's book, Everyone's a Theologian, an introduction to systematic theology, because they're getting that taste of like we care about the whole counsel of God and its richness.

Amen.

Amen.

That is so important. God down, not man up. That's how theology is taught. Let's play this brand new promo. You're going to be the first one to hear it. You're going to be the first one to benefit from it.

You are getting affected by this greater than anybody because we're directly connected via the interwebs right now. So everybody else is going to get this later. But so here we go. Let's go ahead and play this promo real quick.

Grace and peace, everybody. This is Tony from The Standard Beard Care. Let me give you a little pop quiz. What did Charles Spurgeon, J .C. Ryle and Claude Ramsey all have in common? Besides great theology, all three of them have awesome beards.

Claude himself is using product from The Standard Beard Care. So if you want to look like Claude, and let's face it, who doesn't? Head over to thestandardbeardcare .com and check out the vast array of all natural handcrafted products to make that beard, well, look a lot like Claude's.

But if you're listening and you don't have a beard, don't worry. We got you covered. Coming very soon to The Standard Beard Care family will be an all natural line of total men's care products, such as deodorants and body sprays and a whole lot more.

So again, head over to thestandardbeardcare .com, a Christ exalting veteran owned and simple name in beard care. That's thestandardbeardcare .com where the standard is the standard.

All right. And while we're at it, let's go ahead and just do a little bit of beard care here on the air. My wife loves it when I do this. The very first podcast we did in 2020, I just out of habit did this.

And my wife said, I can't believe you did that.

She didn't say it like that. She's much more. She is a beautiful, intelligent, wise, loving, tender, caring person. But I did that. And since she said, why did you do that? I do it on every podcast now.

So there you go. So, Jeremiah, you and your wife, as we mentioned, you've been married since 2015,.

Correct? Yes.

All right. So here's where we're going to play. We call it I'm calling a game. It's not really a game. It's just where I tell you or I ask you a question and you tell me the dumbest thing that you've said to your wife since you've been married.

So, Jeremiah, what's the dumbest thing that you've said to your wife since you've been married?

Oh, my goodness, you didn't tell me to think about this beforehand.

No, this had to be this had to be spontaneous.

Oh, man, there's there's so many.

You big dummy, you big, big dummy, big dummy. See what you did. Oh, no, you big dummy. So tell me, you know who Sanford and Sonny is in Red Fox. You do, right? OK, good, good, because I didn't want to hit the you big dummy button again, because.

A lot of young folks don't know who Sanford and I'll be honest, it rings a bell. I don't know. In total, I'm I'm turning 31 in just a couple of weeks.

So, OK, so I'm going to give you some homework. I'm going to give you some deal. Look up Sanford and Son, the TV show.

You caught me on the spot. Yeah, that was that was tough.

That's the beauty of podcasting. All right. So we're not going to I'm not going to try to catch you off guard anymore. So Jeremiah is known as the apologetic dog, and that is why we're having him on today.

We are going to be talking about a very difficult subject, a subject that's really starting an idea that's really starting to rear its head in reform circles, in theological circles, in our day and time.

And Jeremiah, as I told him before the podcast, I don't know what I'm going to say to the public now. I appreciate his love and passion for the word of God. I appreciate with him particularly being a young man and being so being so knowledgeable and articulate with the word of God, with theological ideas and doctrines.

And so what we're going to talk about tonight is the danger of full preterism. And in talking about the danger of full preterism, we're going to kind of try to lay a foundation for the audience. We're going to go through some terms.

Jeremiah is going to be breaking it down for us. And then at the end of the podcast, we're going to take a few minutes and we're going to sort through the bulk of the video that we showed you at the beginning as the teaser.

So, Jeremiah, let's begin with two terms. OK, let's begin with orthodoxy and heterodoxy. What is orthodoxy and what is heterodoxy?

Orthodoxy is essentially right teaching. And heterodoxy is essentially that which is not orthodox, that is outside the bounds of right teaching. And so the best way that I explain orthodoxy a lot of times goes hands in hand with orthopraxy, right living, but that has to be informed by right teaching is you've got to believe in the right Jesus and you have to receive the right Jesus on the terms in which he prescribed.

And so the way I break that down is the right Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, the triune God. And we receive the biblical Jesus by faith alone, not looking to ourself or trusting in the things that we do, but looking to Jesus in faith.

Right. Which is saying from the heart, we realize that we cannot earn favor with God by the task that we accomplish. And so what is tethered with this gospel promise of being in sweet relationship with Jesus Christ is many promises.

He promises us not to leave us as orphans, but he goes to make a way for us, prepare a place for us, for us to be with him one day, to be asked when the body is to be present with the Lord. And he is going to restore all things.

This is getting into our blessed hope. And he's promised that these sin-cursed bodies, they are going to rot. They're going to decay. But he is going to restore the whole person. We are at least a two-part being of body and soul.

And so we are going to be resurrected with new bodies fit for eternity in the eternal state. And so we're going to get into full preterism. But full preterism goes outside the bounds of orthodoxy and takes away that blessed hope, saying all these things are somehow shoehorned into 70 AD.

And a lot of these Christian biblical terms are just redefined. And so I'll pause there if you want to speak any more to that before we go any further.

No, that's very good. Very good. So basically there we see the contrast between orthodoxy and heterodoxy, right? That heterodoxy outside the bounds of orthodoxy. And as you mentioned there, it's so important as Christians.

I mean, a lot of folks think that, and I'm going to use this term and I don't mean it despairingly, but it's just a plain Jane term. A lot of people take and hold to Christianity with kind of a fly by the seat of their pants mentality, right?

Whatever feels good. If it works, we'll roll with it. But there are clear cut doctrinal standards set out in the word of God that we must, as believers, hold to in the word of God being the standard. We as Christians, we must allow the word of God to shape our thoughts as opposed to allowing our thoughts to shape our idea of God's word.

So on that, let's move on very quickly here to some eschatological terms. I know some of our audience likely is far up on this. They know what's going on, but it's so good if there are some folks who don't really truly understand these terms to have these terms defined as we talk about the danger of full preterism.

So in eschatological terms, really, we can look at four major views. We've got premillennial dispensational, historic premillennial, postmillennial, and amillennial. Would you care to take a moment and break those down, starting with premillennial first?

Claude, I would love to. And so we're talking about eschatological views or eschatology. We're talking about the study of end times. And so this once again, I mentioned that term earlier, blessed hope.

What are the things that we look forward to in this gospel promise? Jesus has made us right before God and our sins forgiven. But that's just the beginning. We look forward to eternal relationship with him.

And so these four eschatological views are trying to sift through the essentials of eschatology and the non-essentials of eschatology. And so what I want to say about these four views is they all unite around the essential things of eschatology that can be broken up into three or four things that, number one, Jesus is coming in the future bodily to judge the living and the dead.

That is a future reality that he's going to come back truly and really. And then he's going to judge the living and the dead. So the just and the unjust are going to be resurrected bodily, fit for eternity, either in eternal justice and damnation before God, who is holy, holy, holy.

And those that know Jesus relationally will be resurrected with bodies fit for eternity to enjoy him forever, like our catechisms say. And so then Jesus is going to restore all things, meaning that this intermediate state where the heaven, where God's abode is now, is going to come to earth and he's going to transform this world to dwell with man.

And so even depending on how we interpret Revelation, we can see that picture at the very least. And so those are essentials in eschatology, Claude. And so all these views that you talked about, they all affirm that.

And so where these views differ is on non-essentials within eschatology. They differ on the nature of the millennium, the millennial reign of Christ. If someone goes and looks at Revelation 20, you see a thousand years, a thousand years, a thousand years mentioned six times.

And so these different views either view this a little bit more literally in the future or more metaphorically and symbolically, and it has more of Revelation and then other eschatological points in Scripture as being in the past.

So we get into these terms called futurism, future, or past, or praetor, or praetorism. And so these four views are trying to find that balance on the non-essentials. Does that make sense, Claude?

Yes, sir.

And so I want to lay that foundation really quick. So it's wonderful because they unite around the essentials. And we'll get into a little bit how full praetorism literally destroys all the essentials, destroys them, redefines it all, and is not Christian and has only been on the scene for the past, I want to say maybe 100, 200 years.

Not very long. Like it is new and on the scene. That should always cause us to hold the brakes and hold up the red flag.

Can I ask you a quick question? So is that, that's about the same time frame that pre-millennial, Jay and Darby and came out pre-millennial dispensationalism too.

Yeah.

And I think dispensational pre-millennialism came out before, but it is definitely later on the scene, like you're talking about. And I want to tell people that doesn't make it wrong necessarily, but we have a historic faith.

And so we need to be careful to say, are we discovering something brand new that the church hasn't already understood for the past 2 ,000 years? Well, the church is infallible. In fact, when you study church history, there's a lot of myths, right?

There's a lot of polemics. And that's a part of that refinement. Jesus building his bride. And I believe in semper reformandus. So there's a sense that theology is being refined against heresies, especially.

So I tell people that's not a defeater, but that should cause us to pause when something is brand new. And now this is the difference between dispensational pre-millennialism and full preterism is the Johnny Mac dispensational pre-mill is very similar to some of the views that the early church second century held.

I say similar, like it wasn't codified and you didn't have the dispensationalism, but there's a lot of shared features in pre-millennialism. In fact, that's probably the first eschatology that came on the scene in church history.

And so the pause with dispensationalism is because of how new it is. But it's not just a total reinvention of the will. And it's not saying, well, church history has just gotten basically everything wrong on this issue.

It's just looking at things in a slightly different light. Full preterism does a complete overhaul and changes how the Old Testament relates to the New Testament, has a backwards hermeneutic where it starts with the timing indicators of 70 AD and then reads everything else in light of that.

So I want to be out, Claude, you will hear me be very kind and charitable towards dispensational pre-millennial theology. Number one, I believed it for a long time. I know it like the back of my hand, but they're not heretics for crying out loud.

They believe in the fundamentals and essentials of eschatology. And I will be the first to remind people of that. They are our brothers. And so when people are like, are the dispensational crowd, is that what's wrong with eschatology?

It's like, no, they're not. So I know we've not defined them yet, but I really want to lay that foundation of the essentials and non-essentials. And I want to encourage people, if you go to the Apologetic Dog, I did a teaching series where I did an overview of all.

I just said the three major views of eschatology because we're going to talk a little bit about the differences between dispensational pre-mill with historic. But they're in the pre-mill camp. I did a flyover view of all three and then spent time preaching through each historic view in a positive fashion.

So I had people understanding me because people were like, which one are you? And I'm like, to be continued, letting you know, we are brothers in Christ to sharpen one another on the non-essentials and we have to come together to fight the heresy of hyper or full preterisms.

I agree 100 percent there. So and I can attest to the goodness of those sermons that Jeremiah preached. I watched those and listened to those as well. So, Jeremiah, you just continue on here. So let's just in a couple of quick statements, the difference between pre-millennial.

Dispensational and historic dispensational pre-millennialism pretty much sees the book of Revelation unfolding chronologically. This is the take that John MacArthur would hold. So very much everything is kind of building on one another.

And you have a hard distinction between Israel and the church. The church you see drop off after chapter three with the church of Philadelphia and Laodicea. You don't really see the church until the marriage supper of the lamb.

And so MacArthur's dispensational view says, OK, now the focus is shifting on Israel there in this time of persecution. You got different interpretation, whether the church is going to be raptured at the beginning of the tribulation in the middle or post at the very end.

So there's conversation to be had there. And then this is the big distinction here is because when Jesus returns in chapter 19, he's bringing the church with him. And so during this thousand year reign, the focus shifts back onto Old Testament Israel to finish these dispensational promises that was allegedly given to Abraham and then is fulfilled there.

The main difference with historic premill is historic premill doesn't necessarily see the book of Revelation as chronological. You could have a very cyclical view and things like that. But the focus stays on the church in the future millennial reign, if that makes sense.

The early church was more of a historic premillennial framework that saw not a pre-tribulation rapture, but the church would undergo persecution, meet Antichrist and would have to be martyred for the faith.

But when you have the thousand year reign, the focus is not on Israel, unfulfilled promises, but is laser focused on the church.

And OK, and so what's the difference between the postmillennial and the amillennialist? That's that's that's razor sharp. I mean, that's fine. It's a fine line, really, when you go to history.

It is. But I've noticed a few. I would honestly boil it down to two things. There's probably more, but two big things that I've noticed because they are so interconnected. They see the thousand years as not literal future, but symbolic for now and began at Christ's first coming, whether you put that as a resurrection or as ascension.

But but his inauguration essentially began the thousand year reign, which we are still living in until he returns. So that's a shared feature. Typically, all mill sees things as getting bad. So that would actually be something in common with premill, right?

Sin will continue to abound and and society will get worse, worse and worse. And then postmill kind of sees things getting better. The nations will be Christianized. The pagan nations will be converted by the gospel and the preaching and the Holy Spirit.

And the laws will will conform to the laws of Scripture. You know, I want to say mosaic law, but being charitable of saying that theonomic equitable principles, the nations being one. So that's a that's a difference is things get better.

Postmill all mill does it. And you can kind of fall on either side. You can be optimistic mill or pessimistic mill. And I laugh at that phrase. But here's the thing. The function of the law of God is what distinguishes them to all mill sees the law of God is going forth as a preservative.

Right. We're to be salt and light. So that salt is kind of preserving the stench of the culture. OK, and so it's delaying the inevitable, if that makes sense. And so postmill fundamentally sees the law of God going forth with the gospel difference saying, nope, the battle cry would be Jesus wins.

And I think it's funny because it's all in how you define how Jesus wins. Right. Because the all mill could easily make that same point. But the function of the law of God is different. Postmill sees the law going forth in the world, getting Christianized, being growing in obedience.

And when virtually the world is Christianized, that's what's going to trigger Christ's return. And then all mill says the law of God is supposed to go forth in some measure, but more as a preservative.

The other big distinction between the two, Claude, is how you understand the this age and the age to come. Yeah, I really think this is a big distinction, especially in my study of this. So the all mill would see this age as this temporal age that began back in Genesis three at the fall that kind of started this age.

And so this age, this temporal age is going to go on until Christ returns and restores all things. And so the age to come is the eternal age, eternal realities. But there's an already not yet paradigm going on where Jesus, the age to come, began at Jesus's inauguration, right?

His first coming, essentially. And so that's kind of a lot. And not all all mill see it that way. But I know Ruhlbarger, I just recently interviewed Sam Frost and Storms. And those are their views. And many scholars hold that view.

As we're postmill, like the Jeff Durbin's and now James White. And I'll be honest, I love postmill and all mill. I lean more on mill, but it's like to me, I hold it with the open fist of Sam, always ready to be scrutinized for it.

But the way they view this age and the age to come is actually one of the things that I've circled around and thought, OK, this is going to be similar to full preterism. This is a shared feature between full preterism and postmillennialism is this age we read in scripture and the last days necessarily is referring to this age in the last days of covenant Israel, which postmill would say terminates in 70 A .D.

And then the age to come is post 70 A .D., this Christian age that kind of goes until Christ returns into the eternal state.

Which is a little is a little bit dispensational leaning, is it not? It's kind of it's pulling from that kind of idea.

This is what I tell people. I don't hate the term dispensation. Paul uses it two times in the book of Ephesians. Right. It's a stewardship that God has with his people. So God gets to define the terms.

Right. Because even the Johnny Max, I love John MacArthur, like he's going to affirm the unconditional elect of God, the bride that the father gave to the son. Right. Eternal covenant of redemption. And so the conversation is, how is that bride being manifest over time?

And so I know we get into these conversations of who's being consistent and whatnot. So I just I try to encourage people like dispensational. If you have if you have a King Jimmy or new King Jimmy, you're going to find the word dispensation.

So it's not a bad word. It's just the baggage it tends to carry with the ism, dispensational ism.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So so I primarily use the standard version, the ESV. But so it so and let me also add this. And I'm also trying to learn to talk faster because I am very country and I talk very slow.

But my friend Greg Moore from the Dead Man Walking podcast, a while back, him and Keith Foskey were talking about listening to podcasts and having to listen to them. What speed you listen to podcasts on.

Right. And I'm like, I'm an old dude. I just got to listen to it regular.

Hey, I cranked him up as fast as I could possibly listen to him.

Oh, gosh, you must be so wise, though. So I can't do that. But Greg said, I got to be honest on air. He said, I have to put Claude on to X because he talks so slow. So I'm trying to learn how to talk faster.

But in any case, a millennium, a millennial is really kind of a misnomer because it means no millennium. And as and let me let me be up front. This is the Here I Stand Theology podcast. So I'll say what I want on here, not on anybody else's, but on here.

I claim to be optimistic a millennial. I don't believe that things are getting worse and worse like the premillennial dispensationalist. I don't think things are getting better and better like the the hardcore postmillennialists.

I take the position that according to the scripture, that all things continue as they have from creation, that we're aware of sin more certainly now and the wickedness of man due to technology and media.

But all things continue. I believe the gospel still has the power it has had from the very beginning. It's still the power of God unto salvation that men and women until Christ comes back will be saved.

And the only way they'll be saved and redeemed or culture itself will be saved and redeemed is by and through the gospel of Jesus Christ, by being born again by the grace of God.

Can I add something real quick with that?

Yes.

Something I like about the all millennial position, which you rightly said, it's a misnomer. That's why inaugurate kingdom like we believe the kingdom is now not not existent. But I believe the all male position can can truly say Christ can turn return at any moment.

Yes. As where I feel like the postmillennial position is committed to saying, well, we're still in the early days of the church and there has to be a that's kind of the the mantra is you need to get up and contend for the kingdom, which we like that phraseology.

But what they mean is we have a lot of work to do before the world gets Christianized and Jesus is returned. So and that's that's supposedly the thing that convinced Dr. James White is Doug Wilson's point of what if, Claude, what if we're not in the last days of the church, but the early days?

Apparently, that was paradigm changing for Dr. White, and I just thought that logic can work against the position as well to say, well, if we are in the last days and not the early days, then the return is imminent.

You know, in the future, you're correct. And those are wise words. Those are wise words. So let's move on now. Very quickly define preterism and partial preterism. Give us again, because Jeremiah is a fantastic debater and he understands what is necessary and correct in a debate.

And so I've asked Jeremiah to give us an objective definition, an objective explanation of both beginning with full preterism and then partial preterism. So let's start there.

These terms are necessary because in these conversations, I'll have people just say preterism, period. And I've learned you have to ask, what do you mean by preterism? Because on one hand, we're all preterists.

We believe things in Christianity that have happened in the past. So full preterism is this whole entire worldview that sees the entirety, entirety of scripture as being already fulfilled at 70 A .D. So preterism means past, praetor in the Latin.

And so full preterism, as the name says, it's all fulfilled. And then it's terminating point is 70 A .D. with the destruction of the temple. They believe that this is also the return of Jesus Christ and most take the position Claude, not all, most take the position that that second coming of Jesus was spiritual.