RLL #19 | The Bible Foreign Policy And the Syrian Civil War

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You're listening to radio looks lucid. I'm your host Steve Matthews. This is episode number 19. Thanks for listening in today well today
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I'm gonna be talking about a subject that It's been interesting to me for a long time.
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I'm going to talk in General, my subject is going to be foreign policy in specific
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I'm gonna be talking about the the civil war in Syria and in the u .s.
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U .s. Is involvement in that particular war? Over the last number of years you may be aware that that there's been a big push by by the
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US federal government to Remove Bashar Assad. He's the the duly elected president of Syria To remove him from office and going back at least to 25 2012 and maybe before that Hillary Clinton was very adamant when she was
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Secretary of State Assad must go I mean we were she she said this on I think more than one occasion and of course others in the government and others in The media have echoed that same idea whether they said
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Assad must go or whether they put it in some other way they made it very clear that the u .s.
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Had a responsibility to remove Bashar Assad from power and Of course, you know the this has been the constant theme that if you follow the
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The comments of government officials if you follow comments of the mainstream press where we're all told this and and it's just as a matter of Common knowledge of common sense that Bashar Assad must go
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Well, I want to challenge that idea here today. I I don't think that that there is a good reason for Assad to go
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And I think that the US government is very much overstepping its bounds when it when it makes that argument
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And that's what I'm going to discuss here today Now One of the main reasons that we're told that Assad must go is because we've heard time and time and time again that he gassed his own people
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We heard that just recently just a few weeks ago. I think it was on April 7th that Supposedly there was a gas attack in the
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Douma region of Syria Which is is near Damascus and that there were 40 some people who were killed
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And of course this prompted international outrage and you know We were shown pictures of people suffering and people dying and we were told this was all because of a gas attack well the
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The response was swift and sure from from the US and from France and from Great Britain There was a coordinated attack on Syria I think the day after that supposed gas attack took place
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Israel also bombed Syria and then Maybe about a week later or so. The the US France and Great Britain engaged in In in bombing
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Syria as well. I think the US launched Quite a few cruise missiles at Syria.
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I don't know if they did anything else. I think it was just the cruise missiles that were launched and again, this was all in response to Bashar Assad supposed gas attack on on his own people.
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Well, it doesn't that whole thing Never really made a great deal of sense to me.
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It was very interesting because just the week prior to that Donald Trump had come out and said well, we're gonna leave
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Syria and we're gonna leave soon And this was actually something that was in keeping with with what Donald Trump said while he was a presidential candidate
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You may recall that as a as a presidential candidate And even before he was a presidential candidate.
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He tweeted and spoke out and talked about The u .s. Involvement in in Syria was a big mistake and he made that point very clear and one of the reasons why
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I Did support Donald Trump in the 2016 election was because even if he wasn't necessarily consistent about it he did make a number of very good statements about staying out of foreign conflicts about normalizing relations with Russia and That was a
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That's considered to be something of a Controversial stance I don't think that it should be but but some people consider that to be very controversial well about a week prior to to Bashar Assad supposed gas attack in his own people in early
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April Trump had said, okay Well, you know, we're gonna be pulling out of Syria and we're gonna do it home do it soon We're gonna bring the troops home and you know, we're gonna make
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America great again That's what he was saying. And this was just about a month ago Well, lo and behold the very next week you had a big gas attack supposedly
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And it's interesting because that same series of events had happened about a year earlier in late
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March or so of 2017 Trump had talked about Well, you know the fact that Okay, Bashar Assad can stay as president of Syria and he made some noises about the u .s
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Pulling out lo and behold about a week later. There was another there was supposedly a gas attack
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So it's been two years in a row here where we've had the same sequence of events where Trump has made some noises about Withdrawing from Syria and then that's followed up in almost, you know within a week or so of A an event where there is supposedly a gas attack
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Well, the gas attack when you when you think about it doesn't make a lot of sense If you're
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Bashar Assad and the president of the United States comes out and says we're pulling our troops out Why would you do the one thing?
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I mean when you're winning the war in Bashar Assad is winning the war to to regain or to stabilize his
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His rule in Syria. He is winning this is the Syrian Civil War and when you win when you're you're winning and you're on the verge of Your your major opponent and of course the the
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United States military has been in Syria there's a number of bases that they built there and they spent years trying to to overthrow
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Bashar Assad and When you're on the verge of the
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United States leaving, why would you do the one thing? That you could be almost guaranteed is going to provoke
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Provoke the United States to to remain and and to continue to attack you
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That doesn't make sense. I mean, we're we're told that you know, the Bashar Assad is a madman.
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He's a lunatic He's he's evil. Well, you know what? A lot of people don't know is that Bashar Assad is
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By training he's an eye doctor. He actually went to school in England And he's an eye doctor.
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He has is he has his MD. So he's not a stupid fellow and From what
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I've seen of him. I don't think that he's crazy So Those explanations really don't the whole water, you know this idea that he's just some some madman
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No, I'm not here to carry water for Bashar Assad I don't know everything he's done and I'm not here to defend everything he's ever said or ever done
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But as as leaders go, he's actually a very tolerant Muslim leader. He is a an
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Alawite Muslim and as a as a ruler in Syria He has been been very tolerant of Of other religions for instance
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Christians or at least, you know, I know a lot of times people are reported in in Syria's being Christians I don't know if the
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Christians there are actually Christians in the sense that That they actually believe the gospel maybe some of them do
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I don't know if all of them do but at least nominally these are groups that name the name of Christ and they are allowed to Allow to practice their faith openly
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In a Muslim country now that probably shocks would shock a lot of people it's interesting because our our bestest buddy in the entire
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Middle East is at least among Muslim countries is Saudi Arabia and You go try to practice
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Christianity in Saudi Arabia and see what happens, you know something something probably not too favorable
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Even in Israel, I mean if you were to go over to Israel and you're openly to proselytize for Christianity You would find yourself in a lot of trouble
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If you were an American and you went over there and you did that you probably would be arrested and deported but in in Syria Christians or again at least people who named the name of Christ are allowed to practice openly
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But yet we're told that Syria is the worst possible country and that Bashar Assad is the worst possible leader and he has to go
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This is this is again It's taken as a matter of faith by all good and right -thinking people at least in the mainstream media well
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One thing that you know when I when I heard about that gas attack the whole thing seemed As I said somewhat implausible it didn't make a lot of sense for Assad to have have done what he did a claim that he did when he's winning the war and the u .s.
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Isn't a verge of pulling out you go and you why would he go and do the one thing that he knows would get him in The most trouble again, he's not stupid and he's not crazy.
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So that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me My thought my own opinion on the matter is that I don't know necessarily even that there was a gas attack
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It's hard to say exactly what happened here, but there have been reports coming out by I think from fairly credible people
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They cast a great deal of doubt on this whole idea that that yeah, you know that Assad actually used chemical weapons to kill his own people
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Here's one example, there's a headline. This isn't zero hedge It says famed war reporter Robert Fisk reaches
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Syrian chemical attack site concludes. They were not gassed and if you read through this particular article on zero hedge you come down to a
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A quote well, there is a Doctor who talks about what happened in Douma and what he claims is that you know
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There's tapes that you saw the video that you saw these people who are dead or dying Supposedly from a gas attack what what this doctor said?
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He said that well, you know, these people really were suffering But they weren't suffering from a gas attack.
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What he said is that they were actually suffering from oxygen deprivation
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That they had been living in these rubbish filled tunnels and basements and and the he said that on a night of Wind and heavy shelling it stirred up a dust storm and these people were were basically suffocating in their in their shelters so there were people who actually were suffering, but it wasn't from the suppose it wasn't from the attack by Bashar Assad at least according to Robert Fisk and the
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This doctor that he interviewed now Robert Fisk is a very famous war reporter He is
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I guess you would consider him to be kind of a liberal. He's kind of a leftist He's probably someone who maybe politically maybe
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I wouldn't agree with on on a lot of things and maybe you wouldn't either But that doesn't mean that he's wrong about what he says here
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And he's not the only one who's saying this either. This is the thing that's interesting. There was a another
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Gentleman I came across and in his name is is Pearson Sharpe and he went and also
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Went to Syria looked around talked to people who were In the area and what he said after after reviewing the
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The area and talking to people who lived right in the neighborhood where the gas attack was supposed to have taken place
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He said not one of the people I had spoken to in that neighborhood Said they had seen anything or heard anything about a chemical attack on that day.
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That was Saturday April the 7th So, you know, he was right there in a neighborhood and he said here
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Just with a you know a few blocks of where the the attack Supposedly took place and none of the people who lived right in that area had known anything about a gas attack
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Again that seems kind of strange Now, you know, there's kind of a history of this sort of thing it's interesting because as I mentioned there was that attack supposed attack in is either late
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March early April of 2017 and then there was supposedly another attack that had taken place in 2013 and Everyone knows as I said, everyone, you know quote knows that Bashar Assad gassed his own people
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However, when you you you look at some comments that are made Recent comments that were made by James Mattis.
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This is the the Secretary of Defense James Mattis He admitted that the u .s.
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Has no evidence that Bashar Assad used sarin gas against his own people in 2013 or 2017
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Now that's an extraordinary thing to say don't you think I mean again, we've been told We've been told this
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That it's almost as a as a matter of Required belief that Bashar Assad gassed his own people, but here we've got
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We've got James Mattis again Secretary of Defense very highly placed person very highly respected person
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He came out and this was in No, I see
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I don't I'm not sure where he made these comments But anyway, he was this he wasn't is the secretary secretary of defense and he's saying that there's there's no evidence
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The u .s. Has no evidence. He says we're searching for it He is very emphatic that that the u .s.
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Is searching for it, but he we don't have evidence I'll actually read you the quote here Let's see, he says we have other reports in the battlefield from people who claim it's been used he's talking about gas
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But he goes on to say we do not have evidence of it. We're looking for evidence of it Again, it being gas use since clearly read we are dealing with their shot regime that has used denial and deceit to hide their outlaw
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Actions. Okay. Well, yeah, how does he know that they have outlaw actions? Well, they don't have any evidence of it
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But he you know, he he kind of talks around the whole thing on the way he says we don't have any evidence But on the other hand, we know we know that Bashar Assad is
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Is a criminal he's an outlaw is is what what Mattis says It's kind of funny though the way he couches that he he he he kind of kind of kind of puts it in a a bit
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Of a parentheses on one hand. He kind of says well, you know, this guy's an outlaw, but no hand Yeah, well, we don't really have any evidence of it.
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So They're even within Syria There's there is not good support
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For what so many people at least in the mainstream media take as gospel truth. That is that Bashar Assad gassed his own people
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There's just not much evidence out there of that but you know, someone might come back to all of that And in fact, maybe before I go on to that,
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I want to mention one other thing It's not just in Syria where we've seen this type of thing, right? I mean think about Let your mind go back.
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This isn't that long ago back to 2003 remember when the lead -up to the Gulf War the the the war against I said
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I'm Hussein, you know, and so I'm Hussein was the most evil guy in the entire world He was the next
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Adolf Hitler. You remember all of the scare tactics that were brought up Remember we were told he had chemical he had chemical chemical weapons.
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He had weapons of mass destruction I remember seeing some news reports from that time where there were there was talk that you know
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That he had these planes these drones or these things that could he could fly over the United States, you know spread anthrax around And we heard all of this stuff about weapons of mass destruction we have to go in we got to take him out
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We got a you know, because otherwise he's gonna you know gas or nuke or or do something to to the
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United States Well, we got over there. We removed Hussein's government took over the country and remember the big search for weapons of mass destruction
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Yeah, yeah, nobody found any that's the thing so, you know, here's another example of A charge that was leveled against Saddam Hussein.
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And again, I'm not gonna sit here and argue that Saddam Hussein was a great guy but we were told we had to go to war with him because there were weapons of mass destruction and the
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US goes in and They don't find any weapons of mass destruction by their own admission So I think it's fair to be skeptical of their claims.
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They don't have a very good track record. Do they? Now someone might come back and in let's let's just maybe for the sake of argument suppose just for a moment
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Let's just suppose That Bashar Assad had in fact gassed his own people
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Now suppose he had used chemical weapons well Does that mean that the
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US is obligated to go in and bomb Saddam or bomb? Bashar Assad, you know,
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I would argue. No, it does not You know it was using chemical weapons on people a terrible thing.
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Yes, it absolutely is but You know, the United States is is best buddies with a lot of very horrible regimes
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You know, I mentioned this the the Saudi Arabians Well, you know the the Saudi Arabians, you know,
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Saudi Arabia is one of the most oppressive countries in the entire world You you know, they behead people on a regular basis for criminal punishment
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They You know, they said you cannot openly practice Christianity in Saudi Arabia the
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Saudi Arabian government has More the sawed the country of Saudi Arabia has certainly spawned the wahhabist movement and of course the wahhabist
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Muslims are the people who have been responsible for so much terrorism the
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Saudi Arabian government has been running a long -running war against Yemen where Many many people have been killed in the
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United States has supported the Saudi Arabian government and doing this So, you know the
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Saudi Arabian government's done all sorts of horrible things and yet it's it's okay when they do it but it's not okay if if Bashar Assad say were to The gases on people, you know, we have to go in and in and fight him because of that but on the other hand
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When Saudi Arabia commits all kinds of atrocities and all kinds of war crimes, well, we're going to support them
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So there seems to be a certain amount of inconsistency there Even if you're looking at at US foreign policy, but but more to the point is this, you know
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Where do we get this idea in Scripture that because and in and I'm arguing here as a scripturalist
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Do we can you find any support in Scripture for the idea that if a foreign government does something bad?
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Within its own borders and in handling its in taking care of its own internal business. That is the responsibility of other countries to To go get into a war with that person, you know in or get into a war with with that particular ruler or that regime
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Yeah, and I would argue that there is is no support for that type of thing in Scripture Look at you mean and we can look at say
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Israel in the Old Testament you think about this I mean, there's a lot of foreign policy in the Bible, right? there you mean we've got got many many books in the
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Old Testament that deal with sort of the the the history the the politics of of the nations of the nation of Israel of Judah the southern kingdom the northern kingdom and in nowhere in in the
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Bible is Israel ever commanded to go out and Smite other countries and make the world safe for theocracy
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Nowhere has it ever said that and you know I would say of any country that has ever existed in the entire history of the world if there is one country that might be so charged with with with Conquering other countries and going on an aggressive war and Imposing the law of God on on other nations.
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I think Israel certainly would have been been the choice for that, right? I mean it was was God's chosen people.
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It was was his nation And yet they were not commissioned to do any such thing basically, the
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Israelites were told to live in their land to mind their own business to honor God and You know, they they could trade with other people they could
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Talk to other people there, but but they were not encouraged to to go on offensive wars against other people
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Yes, they were commissioned to go and conquer the land of Canaan You know God used the Israelite nation to punish the
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Canaanites for their many gross gross sins
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But Israel was not told to you know to go out and to smite the you know the benighted Egyptians or to go out and to to to smite the the
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Hittite nation or to conquer other nations that they were around them all the pagan nations and and To to impose the law of Moses on them now
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Israel did fight wars with some surrounding nations That's true, but they were defensive wars, you know,
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Israel was not told To go out and and go on a worldwide campaign again of making the the world safe with theocracy
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And some of those other countries did terrible things internally They did terrible things to their own people
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But that wasn't the the job of of Israel to To put a stop to all of that, you know
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They were told to mind their own business to live in the land to honor God, you know to keep the law And and that was the extent of their charge, you know mind your own business.
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That's really one of the big lessons I think we can we can take from scripture when it comes to foreign policy another
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Another aspect of foreign policy that we can get out of scripture is the idea that that we're to treat others as We ourselves would like to be treated, you know, that is to say we're to apply the golden rule not just to To personal interactions, but that also has a place in foreign policy, and I think that's a really
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Fascinating thing to think about them probably not too often Do Christians think about that?
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they you know they they might be very much for the golden rule when it comes to to maybe their own personal interactions with other people and Maybe they hope that other people certainly
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Certainly treat them that way But I don't think very often that we're encouraged to think about the golden rule as to how that would relate to foreign policy
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There was an article several years ago. This was written back. Oh, it was back written back during the 2012 presidential campaign
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It's an article that appeared in foreign policy magazine now foreign policy magazine
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Or foreign policy. I should say it's just called foreign policy. It's a publication of the
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Yeah, what are those guys name? I'm the the name of the the outfits Escaping my mind here for a moment, but it's a it's a very very prestigious magazine.
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It's it's the Council on foreign relations Yeah, the CFR Council on foreign relations I just couldn't think of it there for a moment foreign policy is the publication of the
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Council on foreign relations now the Council on foreign relations if you're you're familiar with them, or maybe that's maybe you're not familiar with them, but that is a
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Maybe like the ultimate movers and shakers Club when it comes to to foreign policy I mean everybody who's anybody is involved with With the
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Council on foreign relations, you know all the the top politicians top diplomats Like I say the the movers and shakers of the world certainly in the
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West are involved with With the Council on foreign relations and there was this article that was published by this gentleman by the name of URI Friedman This is back in January 17th of 2012 so it's about a six -year -old article and the headline says
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Ron Paul invokes the Millard Fillmore doctrine and I'll quote a little bit of this article here yeah, this is kind of leading up to the idea of using the the golden rule as a as a as a
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As a basis for relating to other nations as a as the basis for a Christian foreign policy
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Here's a Ron. Here's what the article says. Let's face it when Millard Fillmore the Undistinguished uninspiring 13 present 13th president of the
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United States comes up in political conversation these days It's usually as the butt of jokes quote
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When five of your six candidates could not be elected president if they're ran against Millard Fillmore I think you can presume that there will not you know dot dot dot it kind of trails off But the the whole idea is that you know
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That Millard Fillmore was kind of a joke as a president and anything that he thought Was kind of a joke as a president and that's important to this article that we have to discredit
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Millard Fillmore I mean good grief. The guy's got a nerdy name, right? I mean, could you possibly have a more nerdy name than Millard Fillmore?
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I Don't know. It might be kind of hard to come up with one certainly at least among u .s. Presidents I don't know if you could get elected these days with a name like Millard But but anyway, it's important for this
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Uri Friedman to discredit poor Millard Fillmore who's not around to defend himself because Friedman doesn't like what what?
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What Fillmore had to say and he goes on in this article to quote Millard Fillmore? And he quoted his
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Fillmore's 1850 State of the Union address and it's very interesting. I'm not gonna read
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Everything that he quoted here But this is kind of the money quote from Fillmore and this is what
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Fillmore said he said the great law of morality ought to have a national as well as a personal and individual application we should act toward other nations as we wish them to act toward us and Justice and conscience should form the rule of conduct between governments instead of mere power self -interest or the desire of aggrandizement
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To maintain a strict neutrality in foreign wars to cultivate friendly friendly relations to reciprocate every noble and generous act and to perform punctually and scrupulously every treaty obligation
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These are the duties which we owe to other states and by the performance of which we best entitle ourselves to like treatment from them or if that in any case be refused
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We can enforce our own rights with justice and a clear conscience Now how great of a quote is that I would say that Millard Fillmore in those brief few sentences
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I just read there to you shows more wisdom more insight more
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Understanding of what the Bible has to say about politics and probably the entire foreign policy establishment of the
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United States put together Today has That's extraordinarily insightful.
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That's great stuff Wow, I just want to read that that one sentence to you again The great law of morality ought to have a national as well as a personal and individual application
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We should act toward other nations as we wish them to act toward us Now the writer of this article this
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Uri Friedman fellow writing in in foreign policy. He thinks this is just ridiculous He thinks it's simply laughable
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And and of course he accuses Ron Paul of Oh, I don't know
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Expounding the Fillmore doctrine. Well, I don't think that Ron Paul would be embarrassed by that at all. In fact
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What I just read there to you from from Millard Fillmore is pretty much what Ron Paul has been saying now since oh
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I don't know at least publicly going back to the 1970s at least the last 40 years if not longer
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He has talked quite a bit about something called non -intervention ism
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That's his foreign policy now when? when when people
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Challenge Ron Paul and they say well, you know We don't like what you're saying what they do is they they bring out the ultimate swear word and they call him
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Isolationist, you know, you're an isolationist. So I mean if you don't favor Sending American troops all over the world if you don't favor a massive amounts of military intervention wherever and under whatever circumstances whether there's actually a crisis or whether it's a
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Bunch of propaganda put out for one reason or another If you don't favor that while you're an isolationist, you know, and of course that's kind of a swear word when you call somebody an isolationist
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That's a swear word and it's meant to it's meant to end the argument. It's meant to end the discussion You know, it's it's a little bit like calling somebody a racist, you know, if you call somebody a racist it's meant to end the discussion
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It's not really, you know, you don't have to define the term You don't have to to provide examples of how the person is is a racist
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You just simply call them a racist and that ends ends the discussion and it's a little bit like that when it comes to foreign
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Policy, you know, you call somebody an isolationist and that's just the end of it You're you know, that person's views are so far beyond the pale and so ridiculous that they're not even worthy of being consideration
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We're not even gonna talk to you. So so that that's that's kind of the treatment that that Ron Paul has gotten
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For a long time for his views, you know, you're an isolationist Well what Ron Paul would argue is he would say that that he is a non interventionist
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You know that is he believes in the the United States and other nations and this he would apply this to all nations that the
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Job is to mind our own business to take care of our own problems to trade with people to talk with people to set a good example for other nations, but it's not our business to go and You know smite these sinners on the on the other side of the planet who pose no threat to us
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And that is you know Even if if Bashar Assad were as bad as what his worst enemies portray him to be and I I don't think that he is
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As I said, I mean Bashar Assad actually lets Christians or again those who at least name the name of Christ Openly practice in his country, you know, there aren't too many countries in the
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Middle East I certainly in some of these countries that are run by By some of these very very radical
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Muslims where that's possible But yet we're told that that Bashar Assad is is the worst person in the world
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And on the other hand, we're told that the house of Saad are, you know, absolutely ideal and wonderful, even though they would never ever ever
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Allow a Christian to to practice in in their country There's another another part of what the
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Bible says in addition to to the golden rule I also like to think that something that that Paul said
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In in Romans is applicable to to foreign policy as where as well Here's the quote and this is from Romans 12 18.
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He says if it be possible as much as lies in you Be at peace with all men.
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I that that's the King James Version I think the the New King James says, you know that the to the degree that it depends on you live at peace with all
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Men, you know, it's the idea that you don't go out looking to pick a fight And you don't go out looking to start trouble now
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When Paul wrote that he says to the extent that it depends on you to the degree that it depends on you
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Now it doesn't always depend on you. I mean sometimes, you know, there are bullies in this world There are people who do want to pick a fight and if somebody comes at you
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Well, you know you you do have as an individual right to defend yourself And of course as as a nation, you know, if you're being attacked you have a right to defend your own territory
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You know, the idea of a defensive war is certainly Consonant with Scripture.
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There's nothing wrong with that But when you're talking about taking an offensive war or going on an offensive campaign now, that's something very different You know, that's not the golden rule.
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You wouldn't want to be you wouldn't want Other countries attacking, you know as an American I wouldn't want other countries attacking the
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United States and I don't think the United States should be in the business of attacking other countries and yet That's something that our foreign policy establishment doesn't have a problem with and I Think that the more we continue down this particular road with the kinds of actions that we've done in Syria It's very very dangerous
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It's not just dangerous for us as the United States It's dangerous for the world because these things can get out of hand, you know
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You think back on how World War one one got started. What was it? There is a they assassinated the
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Archduke Ferdinand and in one thing led to another and you had all these interlocking treaties and pretty soon you had this this horrible
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Pan -european war take place. Well, you know the United States when it's involved up to its neck as it is in Syria is
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Really playing a very dangerous game because you're you're you're You know
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Russia Backs Syria, you know the United States backs the rebels. So I mean you've got these two sort of proxy armies going at it
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Or start over things like that, you know, maybe by accident but nevertheless you know that that that is a real possibility that you could have a a much much bigger war than what we currently have
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I think the right thing to do with Syria as Americans is to pull out. I think that that's a
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Proper deduction from Scripture, you know, there's no good reason for the United States to be there the
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Syria does not pose a threat to the United States. It has so far as I'm aware never threatened the United States I don't think has any interest in ever doing so and As a result, there's no good reason for the
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United States to be there and yet we've been there and we have spent a great deal of time Not only fighting against Bashar Assad But we have supported
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Essentially we've supported jihadists who fight against him and this is a big problem
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You know again, we're told that Bashar Assad is this horrible terrible person and yet the United States has been arming fighting alongside supporting
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Wahhabist Jihadists now, I'm not comfortable with that as an American And I don't think probably most
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Americans would be if they knew that's what was going on But that's not something that's really made very clear when we look at it in When we hear press reports
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Well that about wraps things up today, I think I've probably gone on about this as much as I care to at this point