Bloody Ohio and Cowardly Pastors and Politicians

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When the scribes and Pharisees asked our Lord about the greatest commandment, He replied, You shall love the

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Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

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So, why do we hear some of today's most prominent pastors saying things like this? It had everything to do with how we talk about the

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Bible, and specifically, along with that, what we point to as the foundation of faith, which for most

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Christians, unfortunately, is the Bible. We need to do better.

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We need to love God with all our hearts, and stand unashamedly on the rock of his way. We need to love the

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Lord with all of our souls, and respond to the worldview issues of our day with the wisdom and discernment that comes only from Him.

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We need to love the Lord with our minds, and understand the calling of God's people in every area of life in God's world.

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We need to love the Lord our God with all our strength, and face the work of building a life -giving,

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God -honoring culture. Join us for 10 days at the Runner Academy for Cultural Leadership, as we consider how the gospel influences all of life and culture, and the role that we have to play in applying foundational

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Christian thinking to every area of life. Non -rockabotas must stop.

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I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it! Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

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You're being delusional. Delusional? Yeah, delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal.

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You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

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It doesn't really hurt. Is he hung up on me? Yes! What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

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The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

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Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Right. Don't go into the world and make homies.

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Right. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke,

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Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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And the word of the Lord came to be saying, and you, son of man, will you judge? Will you judge the bloody city?

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Then declare to her all her abominations. You shall say, thus says the Lord God, a city that sheds blood in her midst so that her time may come, and that makes idols to defile herself.

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You have become guilty by the blood that you have shed and defiled by the idols that you have made, and you have brought your days near.

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The appointed time of your years has come. Therefore, I have made you a reproach to the nations and a mockery to all the countries.

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Those who are near and those who are far from you will mock you. Your name is defiled. You are full of tumult.

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That would be Ezekiel 22, 1 -5. Good name. Yes. A prophetic witness there against the bloody city.

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It's what we need in our day. True that. Or state, for that matter. State. Nation.

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Welcome, everyone, to Apologia Radio. This is going to be an interesting show because we have a special guest zooming in today.

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A special guest. A special guest. That you might know. That you might know. What up?

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We got Zachary Conover, DOC. Good to be here. What was the name we came up with last week? Oh, I don't remember.

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Little Zeezers. Oh, yeah. Little Zeezers. Little Zeezers. Merry Christmas, everyone.

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I'm going to go ahead and bring in our special guest, who you may be familiar with. It's the ninja,

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Jeffrey Durbin. What's up, guys? What's up? A .K. Go ahead.

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Sorry. Coming at you from an undisclosed location somewhere in the United States of America.

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I'm not allowed to say where I'm at. Yeah, I was going to say, if you think you heard us before say where he's at, you did not hear us.

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You know, this has got to be a first. This has got to be a first to have the host of Apologia Radio brought in as a guest.

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Yes. I've zoomed in before, but Jeff has not, so this is a first. Yeah, this is my first time.

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First time for everything. Yep. Having a crazy last five weeks of my life dealing with a gift and a blessing of adopting two twins, but that's the farthest

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I can go in saying anything right now because of rules. So, yeah, here

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I am. But this particular broadcast is extremely important. We are at an important, critical time in the fight to establish justice for the pre -born.

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Of course, with Dobbs, the Dobbs decision and the overturning of Roe versus Wade, it exposed so much of what was wrong, where the failures were with the pro -life establishment, the pro -life industry.

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It exposed the inconsistency of their doctrinal position. And we knew that this sort of thing was coming.

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When the Supreme Court washed their hands of the situation and said to the states, you decide if you want to kill them, we knew this was coming.

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And so abortion, this is really important for everyone to hear, abortion is not banned in any state in the

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United States of America, even with trigger laws, even with some states like Louisiana with their abortion mills shut down, abortions are on the rise.

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And that is fundamentally because, of course, sin, judgment, God turning people over to their sin, but also because of a compromised and cowardly pro -life establishment, a non -Christian pro -life industry that refuses to fight this fight under the banner of Christ and God's word.

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They refuse to fight this fight consistently with their own presuppositions. They say they believe that human beings in the womb are human from fertilization, all life is sacred, but they do not actually believe that because they want mothers to be able to kill their children in the womb willfully with impunity and immunity.

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And now it's all being exposed and the inconsistency of their position and the compromise of their position is being demonstrated so vividly in what just happened in Ohio.

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So I'm not sure if you guys want to bring everyone into that conversation with any news clips or anything like that at all, but we need to let people know what just happened in Ohio.

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So maybe go ahead and start that. I got a few clips we should probably... Yeah, let's roll those, let's set the stage. We should probably thank our sponsors first before we jump into this because we'll forget.

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Well, we'll get to that in the middle. We can jump into that. Yeah, let's go ahead and roll those. All right,

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I have several pulled up. Did you have one specifically? No, let's just bring that.

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I'll let everyone know. So basically, and we'll show you some clips to see the reality of the situation. Basically, Ohio is one of the unique places where with a ballot measure you can actually change the state's constitution.

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And so a number of pro -abort groups work to get a ballot measure in and to be voted on.

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And that ballot measure, essentially, there's some vague kind of language in it.

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It is interesting that they refer to what's in the womb as the unborn child. I think, what is it, three times,

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Zach? Is it three times or two times? I actually, when I went back through it, I counted four, I believe.

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So it's actually four times. I have the text right here, and I'm showing, yeah, that it has that many instances where it actually refers to an unborn child.

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That's the language in the ballot itself. There you go. So not even hiding their hand any longer.

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They're just wide open. So unborn child, and essentially what this ballot measure did, or what it was wanting to accomplish, was to allow the bloodshed of a child in the womb all the way up until essentially nine months birth.

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And the language there is really interesting. It's until viability, but the physician can determine whether or not it's viable.

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And then also if the physician determines, yes, it is still viable, but— But the woman's life and health also.

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Life and health. And then, of course, big question mark over the word health of the mother aside from life of the mother, meaning what?

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Mental health? Is this going to disrupt her ability to be a happy soul?

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Is she going to lose sleep over this? Is this going to damage her mental health? So there's a number of concessions in there that essentially it just tells you exactly what the pro -aborts have wanted all along, and that's the ability for a mother to murder her child in the womb throughout all stages of pregnancy.

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This is the full -on courageous display of their worldview. And we're going to get into the distinction between the pro -aborts and their massive courage and the consistency with their worldview and these cowardly pastors and cowardly politicians that want to just cede ground to the enemy.

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They want to not say what their commitments really are. They don't want to be consistent. They want to play politics.

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They want to do pragmatism. But, yeah, let's roll the clip of what just took place in Ohio.

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Because the ballot measure passed, I don't think the vote was close really at all.

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Ten points. Yeah, they smoked the pro -lifers, and they exposed the weakness of the

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Christian church and the devastating weakness of the Christian pulpit. Yeah, I believe it was 55 to 45.

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So here, Gabe, if you want to pull that up, this is a clip from The Guardian. I'll go ahead and play this right now.

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Abortion is health care. And abortion access is the law of the land in Ohio.

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This campaign came together last year because we lost access, because there was a dangerous abortion ban in Ohio.

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Patients and families were being harmed, and lives were put at risk. There was no choice.

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We had to win. We had to end the ban. We're going to bed knowing that we own our own bodies.

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Thanks to the work that you have all done. So just a couple quick thoughts in there.

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I don't know if you can see that or not, Jeff. One, the lady was up there holding her child, celebrating.

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The small child. Yeah, small child, celebrating that. But obviously there's a number of talking points. We have more clips we can play too, but a number of talking points there.

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Yeah. No, you go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say,

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I mean, talking about people's lives being in danger, obviously not considering the lives of the baby in the womb, and then the last lady there saying that we have control over our own bodies.

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Sure. What about the babies in the womb? Do they have control over their bodies? Sure, sure. Yeah. You know what reminded me when

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I watched a clip like this, which is becoming more and more common in different nations, it reminded me of the first time we saw this in the nation of Ireland, in the

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Republic, and when this happened, you had these clips rolling in of the women just engaging in celebration over the fact that now they can, with no repercussions whatsoever, in a nation like Ireland where this was illegal, and it even carried a prison sentence up to a certain extent.

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And then when it was repealed, the Eighth Amendment, there was this same kind of celebratory extravagance, celebrating at the fact that they can now kill their babies, that they can control their own futures.

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And if a child gets in the way of Susie's education or her career, then she can bypass that decision that she made in order to delete the consequence of that choice.

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So what we're seeing now in our nation, I mean, this is not across the seas. This is in our nation now.

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This is happening. And you notice one thing about that clip. I wouldn't exactly call any of the women jumping up and down and celebrating and smiles and tears streaming down their face because they can do this now.

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It would be very hard to classify a woman that is that hard -hearted towards human life as a victim, which seems to be the common thing that we continue to hear from those in the pro -life establishment, the pro -life movement.

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And now you have ample evidence with a ballot initiative like this in which the phrase unborn child itself is placed in the text no less than four times.

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They are going into the situation eyes wide open to the reality. I mean, people have talked about the fact that, you know, well, why don't we put a picture of an aborted baby in here so they really know what they're voting for?

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And it's like, well, of course, we're all for putting before the conscience what abortion actually is, but they go into this eyes wide open knowing.

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They knew before they voted what they were doing. It's not that they didn't know. It's how much more of the level of judgment upon our nation and upon the state of Ohio for shedding innocent blood now walking into this full -throated, eyes wide open, knowing exactly what they're doing.

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There is no way that anyone ever could, but especially now, claim that these women don't know what they're doing.

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I just say, let's just start off with that point. Exactly right. And I'll just say quickly, and then Jeff, I'll let you go. I just, just you guys,

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I don't know if you saw this, but surgical abortions just started this week in Northern Ireland.

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So our friends up there are fighting that now. And in both places, what we're talking about here is the rule of law being circumvented by a popular vote.

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Well, in Northern Ireland, it was just Parliament. Yeah, and they just threw it on them and said, here it is, and they put it up to a vote, and that's what you get.

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You get moral anarchy. But go ahead, Jeff. Yeah, and hopefully everyone can see the slippery form of reasoning that that woman engages in, the tugging on the emotions, the lying about language when she says, lives were at risk.

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It's like, no, in abortion, every single time lives are at risk and lives are lost in abortion.

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So it's just a manipulative, slippery, slimy way of speaking that these people use that Christians just need to call out with boldness and confidence.

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No, lives are always at risk in abortion. So you're arguing for more lives to always be at risk.

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And then, of course, the slippery form of reasoning, like now we actually have control or own our own bodies.

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So you're arguing for bodily autonomy. You think this is going to add bodily autonomy in the state of Ohio.

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No, this destroys bodily autonomy because the body inside of the womb of the mother is disregarded and has no bodily autonomy.

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So this slippery form of reasoning saying, I want bodily autonomy but not for the child, it's just abject selfishness.

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That's what our nation is dealing with right now. And the only answer, I just want to say this. Look, there's blood guiltiness.

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There has been for a long time in this nation. But now you see it being ramped up in something like this ballot measure in the state of Ohio.

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Look, I feel like it's wrong to say we're at a turning point, but this is a new turning point.

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We've been at a turning point for a long time in this nation in terms of national sin and the need for repentance, the dishonoring of Christ and God's word.

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But we are at a turning point here where the church and specifically pastors need to wake up and repent of their apathy.

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They need to wake up and be courageous and start boldly preaching the word of God, the kingship of Christ, the lordship of Christ in the public square.

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My question, and look, I always want to turn the finger back to myself and say, where am I failing as a pastor? Where am

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I failing as a father? Where am I failing as a husband? And I think that the first thing we need to take note of here is that the primary failure other than what we know scripture is descriptive about in terms of sin, the judgment of God, God turning people over to their sin,

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Ohio's under judgment, our nation is under judgment. But we think about, okay, what's a means kind of factor that gets us to this place?

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And we need to be honest about the fact that it is the pulpit in this nation. It is the pulpit in the state of Ohio that is an abysmal failure.

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Now, look, I'm speaking as a pastor who's behind the pulpit. There are, I know, faithful pastors out there.

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But we need to say that generally, and I think even more than generally, the majority of the pulpits in this nation are compromised.

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They are not faithful pulpits. They do not bring the word faithfully to their congregations or to this culture.

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And so if we want to actually say who do we point the finger at first, we need to point the finger at the pastors in the state of Ohio.

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They did not approach this issue the way they were called to as prophets in the state of Ohio.

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They should have been the ones who were leading their people in the public square, confronting this as wickedness and murderous and sin.

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They should have been calling out in the city gates, in the state of Ohio, wherever they were, and they were not there.

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And I'm not saying that there were not faithful pastors in the state of Ohio. There are.

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But this is, we have to identify the central issue. The people of God are under shepherds.

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They are following their lead. And so these under shepherds in the state of Ohio need to repent, and they need to do what's right before God for the sake of these children.

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It's really interesting, too, because this issue of compromise and cowardice is really the main thing that we need to get over, other than, of course, by what standard and by what authority, that being the word of God and the authority of Christ, because the compromise in the pulpit is the same compromise that's happening in the politicians.

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And it's important to note that we had a bill of equal protection set to go into the state of Ohio.

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And what people need to understand is that that bill of equal protection that would have abolished abortion in the state of Ohio was actually worked against by the pro -life establishment and the pro -life politicians.

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They influenced to try to get that bill to not go in.

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They fought because their reasoning was, if we do this bill of equal protection and abolition, it's going to be such a frenzy, and it'll cause so many problems for re -election or the ballot measure itself.

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Think about what they were saying. They were saying, if you go for what you actually believe and what's right before God and for these children, then it's going to disrupt our ability to overcome the ballot measure.

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And then lo and behold, the ballot measure goes in anyways, and you guys are standing there looking like a bunch of compromisers and cowards, which you are.

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And what's interesting is that you don't see the kind of compromise that is in the pro -life establishment and pro -life legislators.

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You don't see that kind of compromise over with the pro -aborts. What are they saying? They're completely united.

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This is my worldview. This is my right to murder my child. This is right.

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I'm going to fight. I'm going to go the whole way with my worldview. And then what's interesting is that the bloodshed that follows that is going to be undeniably horrific.

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But the pro -life establishment and pro -life politicians are such cowards and are so compromised that they just allow it to happen on their watch, and they're so afraid to simply go for what is right before God.

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They're always saying things like, well, you know, if we go for a total abortion ban, it's going to affect our ability to be re -elected again.

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And what I want to say to people who say that and Megyn Kelly was just saying that in a clip yesterday in response to people saying we need to go for equal protection.

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We need to end this thing. And she's like, oh, it's going to ruin politics and our ability to get re -elected and is so foolish.

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It's like if there was a trophy, if there was a trophy for a lack of faith and trust in God, if there was a trophy for disobedience before God, you people deserve the biggest one.

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And the truth of the matter is, the truth of the matter is, is this injustice of child sacrifice exists today because, not because of numbers.

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We've got enough people who profess faith in Jesus. We've got enough pro -life legislators who profess to be pro -life. This injustice continues because of compromise and cowardice.

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That's why we're here. There is unfaithfulness before God, and we are going to still get our teeth kicked in everywhere until the church rises up.

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And I mean specifically men of God and pastors who will rise up against this and speak the truth. That's why we're where we're at.

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And I want to just say one more thing here and kick it back to you guys. The only way to overcome what is happening in Ohio right now is equal protection.

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It's the only way. No more bills of partiality. No more compromise. No more inconsistency.

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You will not abolish or end abortion until you stand for what

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Scripture calls you to stand for, and that is equal protections. No equal weights and measures.

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No partiality. That's a sin before God, and we are failing. We've been failing because we are trying to end sin sinfully.

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That's the issue. We're trying to end sin sinfully, and God's not going to bless it.

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You know, we are at the turn. I am on fire because we're at the turning point where this is the moment where the church needs to wake up.

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This is a problem of the church. If there is decay and darkness around us, we already know our vocation.

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We know our marching orders. It's you're the salt and you're the light. So if it's decaying, then you are not salty, and if it's dark, then you are not being light.

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We have too many professing Christians in this nation for this nation to be overcome with this injustice.

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The problem is in the pulpits. The problem is in the churches. We need to repent of our sin, repent of our apathy, and we need to get out into the world willing to lay our lives down for the sake of the other.

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That's the Christian message, essentially, in terms of ethically. It's my life for yours.

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We get that from our Savior. My life for yours. And there is so much compromise, cowardice, and selfishness that we love our lives too much.

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And, you know, I'll end with this. I very recently, fairly recently, got to witness a premature baby.

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And it was astonishing what I got to witness with a premature baby that would be a candidate now in Ohio to be slaughtered in the womb.

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And I witnessed a premature baby that was struggling intensely to live.

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And I witnessed 10 surgeons, nurses, respiratory people, like, literally, like, surrounding, meticulous, watching every detail, trying to save this life, literally around the clock, 24 hours a day, literally, like, every five minutes, checking everything.

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Is everything okay? Is everything safe? What can we do to fix this? How can we save this life? And it's amazing because that shocking inconsistency is so apparent to me that, on the one hand, you've got people trying to preserve life and doing everything they can to preserve life for this premature child.

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And, on the other hand, you've got a state -by -legal decree saying, kill him. Kill him.

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And it's such an amazing inconsistency. It is so treacherous.

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It is so evil. And it is high time the church stands under the banner of Christ's authority and lordship and calls this nation, our cities, these states to repent.

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And specifically, pastors, brothers, I'm looking you eye to eye right now. You have to go to your legislators and say,

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I demand that you obey God and you stop the slaughter and you give equal protection to every human.

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That is the only answer. Pastors, make the time to be a prophetic witness in your area.

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Ohio pastors, repent in sackcloth and ashes and get to work. We do have a bill potentially in Ohio of equal protection.

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You need to do everything you can to get behind that bill. It's not my bill. It's not our bill in terms of apology of church.

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It's the church's collective bill. And we need to work on it together. So we still can't overcome this in Ohio.

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We can. But only with equal protection. It's the only way. Yeah, absolutely. And you just mentioned the verse

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I was going to say, Proverbs 29, 18, where there's no prophetic vision that people cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law.

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And this is precisely what we're witnessing. There's been no prophetic witness, no prophetic vision from the pulpits and the people have cast off restraint.

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We just literally watched a video of that. And so, and again,

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I know that there's faithful, like Jeff said, there's definitely faithful pastors. There are. But I happen to know that there's faithful pastors from neighboring states who were there leading the charge against us that aren't from Ohio.

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They were doing their work for them. Yeah, exactly. And so Zach and I got invited.

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I'm not going to, I don't think I'm willing to mention this person's name yet because I'm trying to get face to face with them and give them a chance.

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But Zach and I were invited to. We did. A pastor's luncheon last week that was hosted by a very, very popular conservative talking head, someone who's right about most things.

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And him and the pastor that were there, they were hosting this event, did a phenomenal job of laying out.

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A great case for theonomy. Yes. I mean, it was fantastic. We were like, wow, I'm actually really impressed by that.

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And then we were allowed to ask questions and Zach stood up and asked about equal protection. And I'll just say that we were very much astonished

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Yeah, we were disappointed. by the response from this man. And his response was basically like, well, now

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I can understand why the pro -life movement would not like what you have to say. And he went on to say that women are victims.

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There you go. And it got worse because it wasn't just him. Then he put it to the audience.

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Which was comprised primarily of pastors and their wives. Yes, from Arizona. So it was all

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Arizona pastors and their wives. And there's about 150 people in there I'd say. And the overwhelming response was that they would agree with this man.

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That women don't know what they're doing. And he specifically even asked the women in the audience, what would you think?

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And they were all like, oh yeah, they'd be victims. And we were like, oh my goodness. Yeah, and I'll tell you for sure, none of those pastors who were agreeing with that,

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A, know their Bibles, and B, stand outside of abortion mills. That's exactly right. That's what I said. That was the only way issued to them.

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Yep, you're exactly right. Yeah, the only way they can hold that position is because they, like I said,

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A, don't know the scriptures well enough to be able to define that, and B, they don't stand outside of abortion mills where mothers are bragging on their abortions.

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They're saying, I have a right to kill my child. I know it's murder. I can kill my child if I want to.

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And so this doctrinal position that the pro -life establishment has fed to the masses is so destructive.

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And that leads me to a very important thing you can help us with right now. If you are saying, what can

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I do right now? Well, first and foremost, put the Word of God on your lips and make sure that you're using it everywhere you can.

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The second thing we need you to do, if you would join together with us, the heartbeat of the failure is the pro -life establishment's heresy their doctrinal position, which leads to more injustice, that the woman who willfully kills her child in the womb is to be protected.

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They want immunity and impunity for her. They want to make sure she never is seen as guilty, that she's a victim herself.

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Scripture has a lot to say about that. Proverbs 17, 15 says that the person who acquits the guilty and the one who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to God.

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And so it's an abomination before God to acquit the guilty. She is guilty of taking the life of her child.

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The Christian church has always taught that those who engage in the issue of abortion are guilty of murder and they need the forgiveness of Christ.

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The pro -life establishment robs her of the Gospel and says she does not need the forgiveness of Christ for her abortion, and so there's no freedom or there's no forgiveness there.

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That in itself should be enough to reject that position. But the pro -life establishment, because they believe this, that she should be able to kill her child with impunity and with immunity, they actually work against our bills to actually abolish and equally protect these children.

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So the heart of the issue, the fatal flaw of the pro -life establishment is this doctrinal position that she should never be seen as guilty for taking the life of her child, which is why even in a state like Louisiana with a trigger law and them killing our bill of legal protection, abortions are on the rise in Louisiana with no abortion mills.

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How does that happen? It happens with the imprimatur, the signature, the approval of the establishment.

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They say that she should never ever be seen as guilty. And so we are dropping a mini -documentary expose on Good Friday, the day after Thanksgiving.

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I want to encourage you all to help us. Black Friday. Black Friday. An appropriate name over the day.

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We're releasing this very stark information. Black Friday. We are going to release this mini -documentary where we are going to give to you the story of the fundamental issue that keeps this issue alive.

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I know that a lot of times you have disputes over, well, you know, it should be worked towards quote -unquote incremental bills and just take our wins and make our way to the end of abortion.

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I would call them bills of partiality. They are sinful before God. They are dishonoring to God. That's an important discussion.

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But it actually distracts us from the main issue. The main issue is it doesn't matter about these bills of partiality because you can get to the very end of them and the pro -life establishment, the industry is going to say, yeah, but we don't actually want equal protection.

32:25

We don't want this to be fully abolished for the woman and for there to be any criminal penalty. So that's the fundamental issue.

32:32

We have this mini -documentary released Black Friday right here on Apologia Studios. Here's what we need you to do.

32:38

Share it. Share it. Share it. Share it. We need pastors to get this information.

32:43

We need churches to get this information because we have right now prospectively 18 bills of equal protection and abolition happening across the country next session.

32:52

Every single one of those bills is going to die either in committee or on the floor because of the opposition of the pro -life establishment.

33:00

They are opposed to the scriptures. They are opposed to consistency on this issue. They want abortion to be legal for the woman.

33:09

They do not want her ever to be punished. And so every bill we have going forward is going to die without you, the church.

33:16

Without us, the church. And so we need you to share that. Share it with every pastor you know. Share it with everyone in your congregation.

33:23

Black Friday, our mini -documentary expose. That's really what we've been talking about since the beginning of End Abortion Now.

33:30

Who's going to get into gear to actually send this evil back to hell? It's the local church.

33:36

It's the Christian church. And like Jeff said, the failure of the polls is the failure of the pulpits.

33:42

The failure of the polls is the failure of the pulpits. There's no getting around the fact that the reason our politicians are deferring to women, like we talked about, to address the issue of abortion.

33:53

So when a male talking head says, well, let's ask the women in the audience what they think about this.

34:00

They learned that from somewhere. They learned to abdicate their authority as a man, as a leader, as a

34:08

Christian, as a shepherd of God's people. Or as a politician, as those that are shepherds of civil bodies and legislatures, they learned that from somewhere.

34:19

They learned it from those that occupy the pulpits, shirking their responsibility to address this issue with their own congregations and really not calling this or defining it as an issue of sin.

34:30

It's something to be avoided, ignored, glossed over. The woman is just excluded from the call to repentance and the call to turning from sin to come to Christ.

34:41

And then you have the same thing that you see in the civic sphere now. There's just an abdication of authority and men of God think that they're being virtuous when they do that.

34:51

They think that they're being virtuous when they shirk responsibility and say, no, the women get to lead the charge on this.

34:58

But it's not virtuous. We need leadership. We need those that are willing to say and do the things that need to be said and done if we're going to end abortion, and it starts with the church.

35:10

Because they're parroting this. Jeff talked about the failure of the pulpits. Another problem is they're being co -opted by these third -party pro -life groups as to the kind of messaging that they are to help them promulgate.

35:26

And what is that messaging? Maybe we should get to that, but it all centers on the woman.

35:32

This would make it dangerous and hurtful and unsafe for women. If you look at the situation in Ohio, if you go to Ohio Life, which was one of the largest pro -life organizations in Ohio that Lizzie Marbach got fired from, the communications director, because she was just speaking the truth, they said regarding Issue 1 in Ohio, this was their messaging.

35:54

This is just an example. And this is what happens when you try to out -feminist the feminists with your messaging, which is what the life groups tried to do.

36:03

They tried to be more feminist than the pro -aborts. They said Issue 1 would allow for painful late -term abortion in Ohio through all nine months of pregnancy.

36:13

Painful late -term abortion through all nine months. It would eliminate parental rights, meaning a parent would not even be notified if their minor child was considering an abortion.

36:24

It would eliminate health and safety standards for women in our state. Okay? That's the nature of the messaging right here.

36:33

Not that it would murder babies in the womb. Not that the child in the womb is human from the moment of fertilization, and to take their life would be murder.

36:42

That wasn't the core of their message. No, even after the fact, even after the

36:47

Constitutional Amendment gets voted on now for the pro -aborts, they're still coming out with messaging like this.

36:55

Oh, Ohio women are really going to bear the brunt of this, unfortunately. Don't talk to the babies.

37:01

They're the ones that are going to suffer and hurt for our neglect of our duty to do everything that we could.

37:08

Are you serious? What about the babies? What about the children? We're talking about a

37:15

Christian, the head of a Christian leadership group in the state of Ohio talking like this.

37:23

That comes from somewhere. They've been co -opted by these pro -life groups to just parrot these talking points that center on the health of the woman and painful late -term abortions.

37:33

The whole Protect Women Ohio, that group that was formed to combat this and provide the messaging all about it's going to jeopardize health and safety measures for the woman.

37:44

It's going to remove parental notifications so now parents won't even be notified when the abortions take place.

37:50

Just making the issue about all these peripheral things when it ought to be about the children that are dying, the children that are being murdered.

37:58

What are we doing? That's the issue. I was just going to say quickly, you're absolutely right, dude.

38:06

I know all of us right now feel like we've been banging our head against the wall for years now on this topic where it's just like people aren't listening.

38:16

I know, Jeff, you were on The Voting Line this week and you mentioned this. Al Muller's briefing,

38:23

I forget which day that was. It was last week. I listened to it.

38:29

We love Al Muller. We have a ton of respect for him. I've actually heard him say some very great things on this conversation in the past.

38:37

Literally, he talked about abortion. I think it was related to this in Ohio. He literally said, our chances of passing these, he didn't say equal protection, but the total ban on abortion.

38:50

It's just not going to happen. We just can't do it. We need to be fighting where we can.

38:56

This is where if we seem like we're on edge today, it's because we've been saying this for so long and no one's listening.

39:02

It's not the left that's stopping these bills. It's the pro -life industry.

39:09

All these states we're working in, they could've passed. Louisiana could've passed. That's why these documentaries we're releasing are so important.

39:16

It would've passed if it wasn't for the Republicans, if it wasn't for the pro -life industry coming down literally from the top of the nation.

39:24

Federal levels coming down. It's mind -boggling that people don't see this and don't understand this, but we're about to release the evidence.

39:34

Enough is enough. We have it on good authority that in the state of Ohio now, what the

39:39

GOP and what the Republican Party is going to try to do now is come up with their own constitutional amendment in response to the one, of course, that enshrines the right to abortion, apparently, in the state of Ohio, and they're just going to include an earlier cutoff date, probably 15 weeks.

39:55

That's their strategy. That's what they're going to do. That's their strategy. They won't even go the whole way like the pro -abort opposition does.

40:02

They won't even just go the whole way because, honestly, the issue is cowardice. Scripture says that cowards actually go into the lake of fire, so it's a sin to be a coward, especially in a moment like this.

40:12

But that's exactly the point. Even if they say, well, let's go for this constitutional amendment ourselves, they're talking about doing it with just full partiality.

40:22

They won't even go for their full worldview. The pro -aborts say, kill them all whenever we want, at any stage.

40:29

The response of the pro -life establishment is so weak, it's to say, we'd like you to not kill most of them.

40:35

Can we make that be part of the law? Can we just, maybe 50 -50, you can kill some, but not others?

40:42

Can we just go ahead and go for that? There's so much compromise and inconsistency. I want to say, this will be my last comment because I have to actually go and drive some breast milk to a baby that's a candidate for murder in Ohio at this stage.

40:58

But with Dr. Moeller, look, as I said on the dividing line, I love Dr. Moeller. I'm so thankful for so much of what he has done, and I mean that sincerely.

41:08

When I saw him in Anaheim show up to speak, I got giddy like a schoolgirl because I'm so thankful for him.

41:15

He's been a big help to me, even as a pastor. When I've done some development on messages, listened to his insights,

41:22

I'm grateful for the man. But here's the issue. What I said on the dividing line is that Dr. Moeller doesn't seem to fully understand that it's not an issue of incrementalism.

41:35

Should we just take some wins and just get all the way to the end until we finally end this thing? I said to James, when

41:40

Dr. Moeller says those kinds of things, he's thinking like a Christian with his Bible. We want this to end.

41:47

This is murder. We want it to stop. Maybe we can just take the small wins along the way. I would say

41:52

I'd love to have that discussion whether or not bills of partiality and unequal weights and measures and justice are honoring to God or glorifying to God.

42:01

I think that's a great discussion to have. It's very important to have. Actually, what Dr. Moeller doesn't seem to understand is that they don't want to abolish abortion or have equal protection ever.

42:13

It's not a thing for them. It's on the dotted line. They've signed on the dotted line. They've said it with their own mouths.

42:18

They say it constantly. They sit down next to me in hearings to kill our bills before the legislature saying this would lead to the punishment of the woman.

42:26

We never want that. What Dr. Moeller doesn't seem to understand is they don't want what he wants as a

42:31

Christian. I'm just going to go ahead and say it as balanced as I can, but it needs to be understood.

42:39

The pro -life leadership, the industry here is operating as an enemy behind lines.

42:45

They are enemies to the cause of the gospel. They are enemies to the cause of justice. I'm not talking about the standard pro -life

42:51

Christian who doesn't even know this is going on. They think that this is our team. These are the people that we fund to help end this.

42:58

They don't understand that it is the establishment, the industry, and their doctrine that is keeping this alive.

43:03

They are specifically keeping it alive. I'm saddened to report, and I always want to be corrected when

43:09

I have a failure. I'd be willing to accept any correction from Dr. Moeller as a brother, but I'm saddened to report that we had a bill of equal protection in Kentucky that Dr.

43:18

Moeller knew about. Unfortunately, I never heard a word from Dr.

43:25

Moeller or any other leadership in the state of Kentucky as to this bill that we all say as Christian men we want in the state of Kentucky.

43:36

Unfortunately, I didn't hear any support, any language that would point to it to say, hey, the bill we actually say we all want is happening right now in Kentucky.

43:47

That's frustrating. Honestly, it's frustrating, but I hope we see differently in the future when that bill goes back into Kentucky from leaders like Dr.

43:57

Moeller that he would stand by his convictions and his consistent position about what's in the womb and how

44:03

God views this. I hope that he stands with us the next time we get it in. Yes.

44:09

Amen to that. You gotta go, Jeff. I gotta go. I gotta start driving. See you, bro. Godspeed.

44:16

You know, we could go a couple different directions with this here too, but the idea of what we're hearing right now at the political level in terms of how to do this from the

44:28

Republican side, let me read to you something brief here from Nancy Mace's page that she tweeted out.

44:35

This kind of sentiment is exactly what we continue to hear from the pro -life side, the

44:40

Republican side, in terms of their compromise. Nancy Mace, you might know her. She's a politician right now.

44:46

She was going to an annual prayer breakfast that she was invited to, and she said that she had to skip morning sex with her boyfriend in order to make it their own time.

44:56

That tells you kind of where she comes from, but this is one thing that she tweeted. She's conservative?

45:01

Yes. Apparently. She says, We can't save lives if we can't win elections.

45:10

If pro -life Republicans want to actually save lives, they have to learn to listen to women and talk about abortion and contraception.

45:17

Roe repeal changed the playing field in the conversation, and too many are stuck in the policies and arguments of the past.

45:23

We need to talk about common sense abortion restrictions. While also promoting expanded access to contraception, including over -the -counter.

45:33

We need to make sure exceptions for rape and incest are included in every law we pass.

45:40

And we need to constantly remind voters they don't agree with the left's actual position of abortion until birth. Signed screw tape.

45:50

Did she put that? No. I'm including that. Because that kind of argumentation, there's nothing biblical about it.

45:58

There's nothing God -honoring about it. It's purely pragmatism. It's purely political compromise. This idea that somehow, in order to win on the issue of abortion is to compromise, has been clearly refuted, of course, by the

46:14

Ohio situation and in other places. Obviously when you compromise, you don't win, apparently.

46:21

But the reasoning here is that, well, we need Republicans to get elected, so that we can actually do something.

46:27

So we have to sacrifice the lives of babies for the sake of political office to save babies.

46:34

So we have to do evil in order to do good. That is not a biblical value.

46:40

It's not a biblical virtue, and it's not a biblical methodology for ending abortion at all. It's purely compromise.

46:47

It's evil, and it comes from the pit of hell. And true conservatives, true pro -lifers, abolitionists, whatever, we need to stand on principle when it comes to this.

47:00

Because what we're witnessing right now, as the Supreme Court has turned this back over to the states and washed their hands of this, what you're seeing now is the pro -abortion's response to blood guiltiness.

47:12

They're calling it down upon their own heads and saying, okay, you left it in our hands, we're going to make sure our hands are full of blood.

47:20

And so, this is not the end of this. I mean, you're going to see it more and more, even in states like our own.

47:26

It's coming. It's coming. And the process, I don't know if we want to talk about this. But the process by which to implement these ballot initiatives at the state level usually includes the accumulation of signatures at the state level.

47:43

So in Ohio, for example, I was researching a little bit before this with some help from some friends, and I think it was a thousand signatures they needed to actually get it to a vote.

47:52

Some states require a vote from the legislature as well. But in Ohio, I do not believe,

47:59

I'm willing to be corrected on this, that that was necessary. It got on the ballot by enough signatures, and then it was just reduced to a pure Democratic vote.

48:08

So we decide who lives and who dies by a democracy. That's what happened in the state of Ohio.

48:15

It's tyranny at that point. It reduces a people to moral anarchy.

48:21

When you leave people to the desires of their hearts, where they can circumvent the rule of law, then you get this.

48:27

You get bloodshed. And as far as we understand it, there isn't telling yet what kind of immediate effect enshrining a right to abortion in the state's constitution is going to have.

48:38

But one thing it is going to do is it's going to make it very, very advantageous for Planned Parenthood and its political partners to spend a whole lot of money in these states to make sure that every anti -abortion statute of any kind is measured by the measuring rod of this amendment.

48:58

Now, is that good or bad? Well, obviously bad, because this has become the standard now by which to measure anything having to do with restricting a woman's reproductive health care.

49:09

And so it's given them a whole lot of political capital to assert their will and do as they wish in the state of Ohio, whether or not it has immediate ramifications for the state.

49:19

But it's going to make it very, very advantageous for them to repeal abortion anti -abortion protections and make it really easy for them to drive the slaughter of children up to birth.

49:32

Yeah, and so I was just going to, because I know even with us, we're like before we started the show, we're like, what does this exactly mean?

49:38

We're asking people that are much more knowledgeable than us. So essentially what this does in Ohio is it makes abortion a constitutional right in Ohio, and the

49:51

Constitution technically is a law. So essentially now the law is that it's a right to have an abortion.

49:58

That's essentially what this has done. But this is where it's going to be, where it's going to get interesting, because I think they have, do they have a 15 -week ban in Ohio?

50:07

So there was currently two cases before the courts. One had to do with 22 weeks,

50:13

I think, and the other had to do with six weeks. So they were even waiting on those to be ruled on in this case, before the amendment was voted on.

50:21

So now they're going to have to rule according to the, to this constitutional amendment. It would seem so. Probably.

50:26

It would seem that that is at least going to play a strong factor. Yeah, so it's going to be interesting to see. I mean, you're going to have lots of court battles.

50:32

Like you said, I'm sure Planned Parenthood or whoever is just going to be like, alright, well we're just going ahead with this.

50:37

Stop us, essentially, is probably going to be what's going to happen. Right, and they have a lot going for them, obviously, and that's why

50:43

I think there are some states wanting to propose this kind of thing, you know, a ballot initiative, a constitutional amendment.

50:49

Can we just say it's not a wise way to fight this fight? Right. It's not the way that we want to fight to end abortion, and that's why you hear us talking so much about equal protection, because what can defeat this in the state of Ohio?

51:03

Equal protection. Appealing to the constitutional nature of the fight, which is the 14th

51:14

Amendment. You cannot, no state may deprive any person in its jurisdiction of the equal protection of the laws.

51:22

That's what our bills say. It says that you can't deprive protection for this person's life, and the person, of course, in question is the unborn child from the moment of fertilization.

51:33

So the only way to defeat this, it's not wise to go up against Planned Parenthood, the

51:39

Democratic Party, and their unlimited resources. We have to fight this fight asymmetrically, if you will.

51:44

We have to fight it with the right tools, not only with the right principles coming into this, which includes our messaging, our methodology, but in a wise manner.

51:52

We have to fight it with the truth, and really this is the only thing that will do that, because it refers back to what is our nation's law of the land, and that's the

52:01

Constitution of the United States. And that has to be the measuring rod, of course, outside of God's law itself.

52:08

That has to be the plumb line by which this is measured, because what is

52:13

Ohio prepared to do? They are prepared to deprive to persons within their jurisdiction the equal protection of the law.

52:21

That is anti -constitutional, it is anti -scriptural, and it is against everything that is true, right, and good.

52:28

We need to be concerned about how we fight, not just the principles by which we're fighting, or that are informing the way we engage.

52:39

Even here in Arizona, there's a petition going on right now to get a similar ballot, a similar ballot, yeah, on the ballot, get a similar amendment on the ballot.

52:53

Darrell said Arizona currently has a petition that requires 15 % of the number of total voter count in the last gubernatorial election as a signature requirement for getting a constitutional amendment on the ballot.

53:04

So they have to have 15 % of the total number of votes in the last election for the governor to get it on the ballot.

53:11

So that's going to be much more difficult than Ohio it sounds like, but I don't think it's impossible at all, especially if Christians, and if you live in Arizona, especially if you're a pastor, like if we just keep sitting around on our hands and saying nothing and doing nothing, it's going to get on the ballot, and we need to be able to speak for it.

53:30

Right, and if the pro -life establishment and industry has language for their messaging that is like I've been saying, softer than Charmin, it's really not going to be much of a wall to burst through.

53:43

It's going to be made of Charmin, really, and the pro -abortion lobby is just going to bust right through it. Like the Kool -Aid man? Right. Busting through a wall of Charmin.

53:52

But it's interesting, like you listen to our guys that were on the ground in Ohio, you know, they were going around you know, flyering and getting people aware and on their feet to actually go vote for this, and what were some of the things that they were hearing?

54:02

You know, there were people that were conservative Republicans, and they were confused by the messaging of the pro -life movement there, when it came to this amendment, right?

54:11

They say things like, well, I'm generally pro -life, but even the pro -life people were concerned about the rights of women, because that's what the pro -life side made it all about, was women, the safety of women, the rights of women.

54:25

And it's like, the pro -life side almost convinced pro -lifers that, well, hang on, maybe we need to pull back things a little bit, because this, you know, restricts women's rights in a way.

54:36

And then you have the political side of the Republican arm that's like, no, let's do these common sense abortion restrictions.

54:43

Common sense. Let's be reasonable. Let's be moderate. You know, 15 weeks, you know, these restrictions, these provisions, and it's just, you guys, just tell the truth.

54:53

What are we talking about here? We're talking about the babies in the womb. We're talking about protecting human beings from being murdered.

54:59

Abortion is murder. And anyone participating in the act is culpable.

55:06

It should be illegal for everyone to murder anyone.

55:12

It's not. It's not. And unfortunately, until we change the beat of our drum and we stand consistent on our principles, then,

55:22

I mean, we can only expect to see more hell unleashed on earth, which is what this is.

55:28

This is hell on earth. This is what the other side is imposing in terms of their worldview. You want to know what hell on earth looks like?

55:34

It looks like the people of our nation steeped in blood up to their ankles, and continuing to rise if we don't do something about it to stop it.

55:46

Yeah, you're exactly right. And, you know, Jeff mentioned this on the dividing line this week, but what we're seeing is the liberals literally fighting tooth and nail for the right to get as much blood, spill as much blood as they possibly can.

56:02

That's what they want. And they're creative because now they're, you know, a lot of these states, they're united.

56:08

A lot of these states that we're talking about, again, we're going to have probably 18 states this year and 24, they're all going to get shut down by the pro -life industry because of all this just nonsense coward language and all the stuff that we're talking about.

56:22

Just playing all these political games and the left is saying, the heck with that.

56:28

We're going to go for blood. That's what they want. And we'll be consistent. They're consistent. Yeah, exactly right.

56:34

And so, again, just to challenge the pastors, just to challenge the coward politicians, like, scripture teaches that Christ came to vanquish the works of Satan.

56:47

And that he is ruling reign until he puts all enemies under his feet. This enemy will be put under Christ's feet at some point.

56:53

He will be victorious over this. And if we, as Christians, actually approach this conversation like that, like, oh yeah, who are you uncircumcised

57:05

Philistines that come against the army of the Lord, like, if we actually approach it like that, we wouldn't be getting our butts kicked all over the place.

57:13

Because we know whose side we're on. We know who's behind us. And we know that this is going to end.

57:19

It's going to be put under Christ's feet. Christ is going to vanquish us. These are the works of Satan.

57:24

But we don't approach it that way. We approach it by playing these political games and just cowardly and not courageous.

57:31

And it's just high time that especially pastors and man up. Yeah, it's going to take men with spines is what it comes down to.

57:40

Do we want to do some super chats with the last few minutes here? Yes, I was going to get to that. So we did have one super chat.

57:47

Super chat! I was trying to find it, sorry. Jacob Florentino, thank you brother.

57:52

He said, praise the Lord, love the show. Appreciate you, man. Thanks for the blessing, Jacob. Yeah, so we actually, you have time to do a quick after show?

57:59

Yeah, yeah. We can continue this conversation here in a minute. So we'll go ahead and just wrap it up here and want to thank our sponsors because I know

58:10

Jeff had limited time and wanted to just get right into it. So thank you.

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One, Ion Layer. I don't know if Jeff is, I don't know if Jeff was wearing his patch tonight, but Zach's got his.

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He got that figured out. Nine going on. Ion Layer has been great.

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We're enjoying partnering with them. You can go to IonLayer .com check out the

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Nat treatment that they have. If you haven't already, you get a first month free if you type an apology in the coupon code.

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We love them. We're all feeling good on it, I can tell you that much. And of course,

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We're grateful for them. We're grateful for all you listeners that make this possible.

59:33

We have a big year coming up ahead of us for an abortion now, that's for sure. Like we said, about 18 states we're looking at right now.

59:44

That's a lot. And it's us. Be encouraged. We work with some fantastic organizations like OSA and Bradley in Texas.

59:55

Abolish Abortion Texas, Foundation to Abolish Abortion, all those guys. It's not a lot. All these abolitionist organizations as well that are driving the issue in their own state.

01:00:05

Exactly. It's a small handful of people, that's for sure. It's not a lot. We need your help, we need your support.

01:00:11

If you're in those states and you know we're coming, please help. We're going to be having our year -end fundraising coming soon.

01:00:19

Please help, get the word out and help us get that support because we're paying for this stuff out of our pockets. Not personally, but out of an abortion now's pockets from our faithful donors.

01:00:34

Anything else? Just be encouraged about where we are in the fight, guys. A couple years ago we didn't think that anybody knew about what the abolition of abortion was all about at a national scale.

01:00:47

And even now you have politicians addressing the truce that we're putting forward and that other faithful men and women have put forward even before us.

01:00:56

The tide has changed. It is changing on this issue. The paradigm is shifting.

01:01:03

Keep up the good work, continue to be faithful, and let's end abortion. Absolutely. Again, as a reminder,

01:01:10

Christmas is coming up very quickly. I got another new shirt on today. I told you last week we got a bunch of new stuff up on the store.

01:01:20

Oh yeah, and you can get coffee. You're a walking billboard right now.

01:01:25

I am a large walking the broad side of a barn that size. A walking barn billboard.

01:01:33

So go there and get some Christmas presents for your peeps and some good coffee from Landmark Roasters.

01:01:39

Get some of that pre -sip. Pre -sip. You can have some of that on Christmas morning. Without it, there is nothing intelligible.

01:01:46

True dat. He's right. Alright man, well thank you

01:01:53

Zach. Appreciate you. We will be back next week.

01:01:59

I promise, at least lord willing. Sounds good, yes. Peace out.