March 21, 2017 Show with Carl Trueman on “Martin Luther: Theologian of the Cross” PLUS Mark Chanski on “Stare Your Worst Fears Right in the Eye”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arns in your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday.

I'm sorry Tuesday On this what day is today

21st day of March 2017 and I'm in studio with my co -host Reverend Buzz

Taylor a good thing, too.

I got to make sure you get the date right, that's right, and we have a Packed show today

the second hour later on from 5 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time.

We're going to be joined by Mark Chansky pastor of Harbor Reform Baptist Church of

Holland, Michigan and teacher of hermeneutics for the Reform Baptist Seminary in Easley,

South Carolina.

We're gonna be discussing the theme stare your worst fears right in the eye.

That will be the second hour, but I'm so delighted for the first hour that we have returning to the program

Dr. Carl Truman who holds the Paul Woolley chair of church history and his

professor of church history at Westminster Theological Seminary.

He has written more than a dozen books is currently co -editing with Bruce Gordon the Oxford

Handbook of Calvin and Calvinism, which is due this year.

He writes online regularly at first things .com.

He's an ordained minister in the Orthodox Presbyterian Denomination and he is the pastor of

Cornerstone Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Ambler, Pennsylvania.

And he co -hosts the podcast mortification of spin and this website

had 2 .5 million users last year and that's very impressive and it's my honor and privilege

to welcome you back to I am sharpens iron Dr. Carl Truman.

It's great to be here.

Thanks for having me on.

It's my pleasure and we are going to be discussing today with Dr. Truman Martin Luther theologian of the cross

and we are also going to be promoting two events where Dr. Truman is speaking first.

He's going to be at the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology and That will be

April 28th through the 30th at Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr,

Pennsylvania and God willing I will be there as well with an exhibition booth for iron

sharpens iron radio and Then following that Another event where I plan to

be God willing is the faithful shepherd pastors retreat at Harvey Cedars, New Jersey

Which is on Long Beach Island In New Jersey and that's going to be May 15th through the

17th, but dr. Truman we are by the the

graciousness and generosity of Crossway, we're giving away some copies of

Reformation theology a systematic summary Tell us about your participation in that book because there are quite

a number of contributors to that book.

Yeah, well my teaching about

well, I'm pretty

sure that

it will be

spectacular if you

have any involvement.

And you are going to be speaking at the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology and the theme that Martin Luther a

theologian of the cross.

I understand that although you are a Calvinist you are an Orthodox

Presbyterian after all and all Orthodox Presbyterians are thoroughgoing Calvinist.

But it seems that Martin Luther is actually a figure from Church history that seems to be nearer

and dearer to your heart than John Calvin is.

Yeah,

it's first came

across.

Luther still wonder

and.

And theologian of the cross is the subtitle of your

speaking theme Martin Luther theologian of the cross.

Tell us exactly what you mean by that as far as a focus on Luther's

theology and doctrine.

After he but before

he's regular meeting of the Augustinian order of monks.

But while he's there,

he makes this theologian of glory

in a field.

We might say that a theologian of glory assumes that God is

Like him which you

and I might think and operate.

For example, I want you to like me.

What am I going to do?

I'm going to do nice things for you in order to to the theologian of

glory assumes that God is like him and thinks like That

and therefore

has this vision.

The cross is not the one who if you like looks at the world around and assumes God is like that.

The theologian of the cross is the one who looks to where God has revealed himself to be in order to understand who God

is.

Towards

us united to this and

he knows say that

the king or today the

president of the United States.

Like that any much bigger it could.

Joel and the

theologian

of the cross looks to rethink on its head.

Crucify his own expectations about God and accept God for who he has revealed himself to be in the

Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.

When you say one of the reasons why the cross is such a focal theme as

we celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation in that Rome

really diminishes the glory and power and

accomplishment of Christ on Calvary they

basically, even though they perhaps would not Verbalize it quite this honestly, but they

are really saying that what Christ did is insufficient and that we need to

commingle what we have done and do and what the Saints have done in order to be

worthy of heaven.

And it really.

Doesn't it rob Christ of of his accomplishment and his his glory on the cross.

We do have a listener in Runnels, Iowa named Chris and Chris says thank you

for having dr. Truman on to discuss this topic.

I believe I have read that Martin Luther's main discussion of the theology of the cross occurred shortly

after the 95 theses in 1517.

I have also heard from multiple sources that Luther himself places his conversion

to saving faith in or about 1519 According to dr. Truman's research.

Is this information accurate and Did Luther develop his theology of the cross further after

his conversion?

Thank you again for covering this topic.

Thank you Dr. Truman for the blessing you have been and Continue to be to Christ's Church.

Thank you Chris for making iron sharpens iron a joy to listen to well.

You already answered half of his question.

Yeah, well the glory idea

occurs in April 15 18.

So you'll find that see now

the we know

that Luther got a

few things wrong

and and

you can understand the man.

Remembering something or recalling something nearly 30 exciting years

later.

He's going to make some mistakes and errors in His chronology.

Debates when Luther made this some dated as

early.

If I had to

put a date on it, I'd probably go.

Today we were say to say to Luther when were you converted?

I think this would say when a

lot of modern probably struggle most with.

That Luther doesn't revert it at a particular point in time

when the devil comes and tempts him.

He says you cannot have me.

I've been baptized.

Very high view of baptism first gave him cry.

Tricky side of the question is warm.

But I think Luther would not have been I wouldn't say wouldn't be comfortable with but would not have been particularly familiar with for him.

Became a

Christian.

That was the moment when he came to faith when he's describing

what happened in faith.

Sometimes in 1515 and 1520 relative to Romans 117.

He's really describing a breakthrough.

He makes an understanding script and

Lee only find out when we meet

him in glory.

I think.

Thank You Chris in Runnels, Iowa, and you have one, excuse me, that was a great question.

Yes, it was.

And Chris in Runnels, Iowa, you have won a free copy of the book that we are giving away

compliments of Crossway Reformation theology a systematic summary, which has many contributors

to it including our guest. Dr. Carl R Truman.

And so please give us your full mailing address and we'll have that shipped out to you as soon as possible by our friends at

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS comm.

At CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible Book Service Comm we have Ronald

in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York who wants to know how can you harmonize?

Martin Luther's belief in baptismal regeneration with his staunch belief in.

Justification by faith alone.

Yeah, that's a good question, too.

I guess that's the obvious follow -up to to the answer.

I've just given I think to describe Luther's belief.

It's probably true.

I

don't

think Luther

believes

while the word

is also

put his objectively

play the

God

parent.

I think Luther would repudiate the idea of baptismal regeneration.

When he's tempted by the devil and says, you know, look you cannot have me I've been sort of shorthand for him saying

look you cannot have me being baptized and in baptism.

Crisis of my grasp, I

don't

agree.

Well, thank you very much Ronald and you have also received a free copy of the book

that we are giving away today a compliments of our friends at crossway, that's

Reformation theology a systematic summary and God willing you'll be getting that within a couple of weeks

from our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

We have Salvatore in Nassau County, Long Island, New York.

Who wants to know.

How close do you think?

Martin Luther was before.

His legacy became more Arminian eyes than later centuries.

How close do you think?

Luther himself was to the theology of John Calvin who came

after him in regard especially to total

depravity unconditional election and limited atonement

and perseverance of the Saints.

Yeah, that's that's an interesting again an inch to divide

that up into an

ongoing

I all that he needed to

say on the issue

existential need for Perseverance is a

carefully articulated doctrine.

You would not find it so clearly laid out in Luther as indeed You wouldn't find it so clearly laid out in in

August.

A.

Third question limited atonement.

Again that's a tricky question because there's a big debate about whether I think limited atonement as we Have it is is developed in its elaborate forms in the really in the 17th.

Even within the reformed tradition on limited atonement all of which are I think can be

fitted within the great.

It's not really a question That Luther was was

asking I think to go back to Luther and say did he believe in limited atonement Is to ask him a

question that really arises in that sharpened Form in the

latest somewhat unfair answer that

In in the form that we find it later.

Having said that I think the key thing I hope

that is an

answer to

the question.

It's kind of saying.

Not yet.

It seems that he must have been quite Inconsistent because

for him to write as he did in his debate with a Rasmus and the bondage of the will.

It seems that all the other Views that Calvin had would naturally flow from that

now.

According to your comments before although you believe that the

full -blown Concept of limited atonement or particular redemption or definite

atonement was not formalized until the 17th century do you believe

that Calvin believed? that Christ's death was intentionally and

purposefully to Redeem his elect alone and that his death

Was not for the world.

Or do you believe that he had more of a universal understanding of the atonement?

I think

Calvin

believed that

I I think I would want

to realize and not

talk about

yeah.

So in other words since he was not a universalist.

He obviously must have believed that Christ's death.

Was specifically to accomplish the redemption of I do not believe that

Calvin was on right?

Well, we're gonna go away our first break today.

It's going to be very brief.

If you have any questions of your own for dr. Truman, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen a gmail .com.

We do have several of you already waiting to have your questions answered and Asked and answered and we'll get

to you as soon as we can when we return from the break.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

God willing with dr. Carl Truman and more of Martin Luther theologian of the cross.

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WL ie radio www

.w.

Lie.

540 a .m.

Dot -com We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the

pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively.

Useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time For a visit to the

pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

And that was the voice of a mutual friend of dr. Carl Truman and mine Pastor Bill Shishko

of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York.

He's actually retired from that pastoral ministry now and is running a Apologetic

ministry called Reformation Metro, New York.

And he is host of that program that I strongly urge you to listen to.

That's a visit to the pastor's study.

Every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WL ie

540 a .m.

Dot -com and by the way, Salvatore in Nassau County, Long Island since you're a

first -time questioner.

You're not only going to get a free copy of the book that we have been addressing

Reformation theology a systematic summary that dr Carl Truman has contributed to but you're also

getting a free New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the NASB.

So, please give us your mailing address and we'll have that shipped out those items shipped out to you.

As soon as possible by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS dot

-com and We have let's see here.

We have another a listener we have Seth in Randleman, North Carolina.

And he starts off with something that I think must be an inside joke.

Between you and he dr. Truman because he says mr. Arnzen, please tell Carl Truman

How much of a fan I am of his and I know he loves hearing that.

And.

He says serious question for pastor Truman.

I hear a lot about Martin Luther's life and People he influenced but I don't believe I've

heard someone mentioned Luther's thoughts on Reformers prior to him such as

John Huss or Jan Huss or John Wycliffe, etc.

Could dr. Truman, please elaborate on how these men influenced Luther's theology.

Yeah, that's a very good question I think the

key

condemned

many at

that

point

but

a

hundred

years

from

now

a swan

will

arise.

It's a rather fancied himself as the fulfillment of that prophecy.

And if you go to Lutheran churches today quite often the

lectern the

extent to

which Writings influence Luther in terms of their content.

I think not so much really very entry.

He has access to the sets

of patristic authors like Augustin which the

intellectual debt to these men is is far less than

because Luther has.

Certainly

Huss in

particular was a

reason I

think why Frederick the Wise Luther's prince and protector Arranged for Luther effectively to be kidnapped after the

Diet of Worms to keep him safe Into the hands of church or Empire.

Well, thank you Seth and you have also won a free

copy of.

Reformation theology a systematic summary that our guest dr Carl Truman contributed to

thanks to our friends at crossway and also thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible book service, so please make

sure we have your full mailing address and we'll have that shipped out to you by our friends at CV VBS

God -willing within the next couple of weeks.

We have Jerry in Charlestown, New Hampshire.

Who says from what I understand one of Luther's big discoveries in coming to know the gospel.

Was his interpreting the phrase the righteousness of God found in Romans 1

verses 17.

The to refer to the righteousness that God offers to us in the gospel rather than the righteousness that

God Commit that God demands in the gospel in light of this belief.

What might Luther say to the proponents of the so -called new perspective on Paul?

Who tend to interpret the phrase the righteousness of God as the righteousness that God possesses?

Rather than the righteousness that God gives.

Well clearly in agreement with that.

My co -host Reverend Buzz Taylor has something to say.

I.

Just I really don't want to get too far away from Luther.

And so I hope there's other questioners that are gonna bring us right back on the subject.

But I before our hour ends I do want to hear if you have anything to tell us about

this upcoming handbook that you're you're writing.

Oh, yeah.

Well, what.

Tell us something?

I.

Just get tell us a little bit about it.

Well, first of all, let me just let me just tell Jeff.

Let me just tell Jerry in Charlestown, New Hampshire.

That he has also won a copy of the book that we are giving away.

Reformation theology is systematic summary, but okay.

Go ahead.

Dr. Truman.

I'm sorry.

Well, it's a project I'm

doing with my friend

Bruce Gordon

who

it's not

often that you

find younger scholars.

Give younger scholars.

Break an opportunity to be involved in a big project.

It's not going to be a standard introduction to cash.

We're not doing a lot of the you know for example My

literary

trying to make

it now

and

Calvinism as

much for their social and culture their theological significance.

And closely related to this as a professor of church history.

Is there any one book that you think stands out above the others that?

Would be good reading to get a good grasp of the total of church history.

That's

a

difficult

question.

I think

one of the

finest

the

other

fear.

Well,

I will

definitely look

him

up.

Well, Chris, you better bring us back to Luther now.

Well bring us wherever the listeners bring us.

By the way, it's interesting that you mentioned that historian who is an agnostic Roland

Baton was not a Christian and he wrote one of the greatest biographies of Luther this in print, right?

Yeah.

Well,

we have now the.

Last of the winners of the books that we are giving away today.

Reformation theology and systematic summary.

A systematic summary.

This listener is located in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

And this is the first time he is contributing a question to the program.

Ken in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Writes, please ask professor Truman to give my regards to professor Verne Poythress.

We now have our book on the Grand Canyon published.

His question is which of the 95 theses Were most explosive that got

Luther into hot water with the Catholic Church.

And he has a follow -up question after you answer that one.

Yeah, that's a difficult one to answer because in some ways it

was not

so much

the clearly the if

you violated the

Christian life is not to be characterized by doing penance by Saying

hail Mary's or crawling on your hands and knees up flights of steps in Rome.

The Christian life is to be carried towards God a

dying.

The issue is

his second.

Ken's second question is.

Chris when will when will we of solid rock?

When will we of solid rock lectures be able to be on the air?

Oh, I guess he's asking me this question.

Yes that that we are waiting for a young earth creationist who is supposed to

be following his interview or his his

Geologists interview we're having a young earth geologist question.

We were having a young earth geologist interview The day following that one and we're in the process of

trying to arrange that but Ken if you could give us your mailing address,

we will send you a free copy of the the book that we've been given away, this

is the last copy that we have of the book that has been given to us by our friends

over at Crossway.

Reformation theology a systematic summary.

So if you give us your full mailing address, we'll send that out to you and we'll also send you a free New American Standard Bible.

Let's see.

We have.

We have Joe in Slovenia and Joe in Slovenia,

I have to enlarge his email because the text is microscopic so I'm

enlarging that right now and Joe in Slovenia says dear brother Chris.

I've just begun reading on the freedom of the Christian.

I was pleasantly struck by Luther's summation of Pauline doctrine on freedom and duty

when he wrote a Christian man is the most free Lord of all and subject to none a Christian

man is the most dutiful servant of all and subject to everyone.

What needs to happen in the churches for this summary and the way he fleshed out the statement in the rest

of the book to.

Become prominent again as a major guiding principle

of

evangelicalism

is an

ethical treat line

to this

Reformation.

Insights.

Then I

think that the

church

Gospel learning what it means

and Joe in

Slovenia has a

follow -up.

Question, please.

Ask dr. Truman to explain from his perspective.

Specifically how and when evangelicalism generally in the USA Lost the theology of the

cross and adopted the victorious Christian life theology.

What were the leaders events?

Circumstances that led to large portions of evangelicalism going off into a theology of

personal victory power Overcoming etc in opposition to taking up our

cross and dying daily.

Thank you sincerely for focusing on the cross.

Well, that's a

Many

of

the

Lutheran

theology,

but well,

I

guess

I

would

well.

I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today in regard to Martin Luther

theologian of the cross a.

Couple of things I think the power of the word.

Well, I want to remind our listeners about the two events that dr Truman will be

speaking at coming up in the very near future.

First we have from April 28th through the 30th.

He is going to be at the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology that is going to be held

at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania and then

following that he is going to be at the Faithful Shepherd pastors retreat May

15th through the 17th at Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Which is on Long Beach Island in

New Jersey.

That's May 15th through the 17th and for information on both of those events Go to

Alliance net org Alliance net org and click on the

events tab at the top of the page.

And don't forget about the mortification of Spin

podcast that he co -hosts and you can find out more about that Podcast also at

Alliance net org Alliance net org and that's the mortification of

Spin.

And once you tell us a little bit more about that program.

Dr. Truman.

Yeah, it's a podcast.

I do with two friends Todd Pruitt.

We have a variety

of guests.

I'll try to

get the most.

Well, make sure you go to Alliance net org for more information.

Dr Carl Truman has been such an honor and privilege to have you on the program today and I eagerly look forward to having you back

on very soon and as often as The Lord enables you to be on this program.

You always have an open door here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

God bless you, brother.

Bye bye now and coming up don't go away because the second hour of the program we are going to be

featuring our second guest pastor Mark Chansky who is pastor of

Harbor Reform Baptist Church in Holland, Michigan a teacher of hermeneutics for the Reform Baptist

Seminary in Easley, South Carolina.

And we are going to be discussing the theme stare your worst fears right in the eye.

So don't go away.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnsin.

If you just tuned us in our second guest today is Mark Chansky pastor of Harbor

Reform Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan Teacher of hermeneutics for the Reform Baptist Seminary in

Easley, South Carolina.

And we are going to be discussing stare your worst fears right in the eye if you have questions for

Pastor Mark Email us at Chris Arnsin at gmail .com Chris Arnsin at gmail .com

before I go to the the interview and introduce Pastor Mark formally I want to

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We would love to hear from you soon now as I was saying a pastor Mark Chansky is our second guest today

and we are going to be discussing stare your worst fears Right in the eye for the following hour and it's my honor

and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron pastor Mark Chansky.

For me again, I Appreciate the ministry there at Iron Sharpens.

Iron appreciate topics.

Well, I really appreciate that very much and let me introduce you to my co -host the Reverend buzz Taylor who's in studio with me.

Hello, how you doing good.

Well before we go into the topic at hand, why don't you tell our listeners something about Harbor Reform Baptist Church of Holland,

Michigan.

Harbor Reform Emanuel

Reformed Baptist Church

in Grand Rapids wrote about 12 families out here to the

lakes 45 minutes away from the Grand Rapids Church and the Lord has richly

blessed us here for 22 years.

He's established us.

He gave us a delightful two million dollars and we

paid a hundred and fifty thousand dollars for it in 1997 and just

an in

praise God and.

God willing I would love to Visit that congregation some time if the Lord brings me out to

Michigan and I am confident with all the Calvinists out there that he will eventually bring me there.

For some reason I think that

Michigan is the the Mecca of Calvinism.

Well, you do have a lot of Reformed churches on many corners out

here.

Well, this is a very important subject I believe today because this is a

universal theme I believe every single person whether they're honest to admit it or not

has fears that they are very Frightened

apprehensive To look right in the eye to face head -on.

Many of us avoid those particular fears at all costs but

I believe that Psalm 46 was the catalyst to this a blog article that you wrote that is

really the The reason why I wanted to have you discuss this today.

Chris I think 46 I can say even dialing the clock back go back.

There's old now.

And when wife

had and that made the

doctor suspicious that there may have been a severe spinal defect in the child's spina bifida

mathematics that looked 98 because it

didn't

support

it

all.

Something

on

the

means it

up.

Oh, yes.

That's when you and I immediately after that Providential occurrence we both converted to

Pentecostal is.

People who are reformed can tame him and.

Amen amen.

Well, I'm gonna read Psalm 46 verses 1 2 3.

God is our refuge and strength of very present help and trouble.

Therefore we will not fear though.

The earth should change and though the mountains slip into the heart of the sea.

Though it is though its waters roar and foam though the mountains quake

at its swelling pride and.

What to those Texts mean to you in regard to our personal confrontation with fear.

Well, I

think.

Nation and that's

what she

was

looking at and I think What is the healthy antidote is not to say just

sentimentally disqualify that possibility.

You know your heavenly father would never let something like this happen.

Diane.

Nor do I think we should just Forgetfully suppress them by saying oh just refuse to think

about that.

No I think this psalm

tells and then

he gives

the worst

and the psalm writer says Even

if I

think that's

the best

now as

a pastor.

I'm sure that you have in counseling and in private conversations with

members of your flock and just other people that Know that you're a minister and want to confide

In you some personal and private things.

What what are the most commonly?

Held fears that you could tell our listeners about.

I'm sure death Is one of them, although many young people

Live like they have no fear of death and then perhaps that is something that creeps on.

Creeps into our life at older ages.

Although I have met some young people in their 20s that are afraid of death that they're actually preoccupied with that

fear interestingly enough.

But if you I think I think death is the ultimate fear and I'd like to as we get toward the end really focus on

That but but I think that there are Life a someone named

Oh, maybe maybe Jill and she confides that

not of a

job or might

be

next

or

you know.

We can be so and got a wonderful person.

I don't want to

know that.

No.

Yeah, that's not necessarily the case.

And I think it is a wholesome thing all by

herself.

She doesn't have

a husband, but

you know in that

apartment.

It's gonna be survivable because

the Lord will be there with you will be your portion even in that time of

Demise before she what is it Woldemus now before marriage?

She was 50 years old and she was in that apartment and you know what.

Sherry so your greatest fear.

We can really act looking at it and

saying you know what the psalm

writer Spurgeon comments on

that.

Tommy he calls us on earth to the

doctrine of the and

you know many times.

Those cataclysmic events are used in Scripture to denote Changes in the powers that be

political powers Kings being torn down and others coming up and all that.

And After what we've recently been through in our own nation with the election and all that.

This is good for us to remember that even we're not just talking about whether there's gonna be a

tsunami coming to America.

But we're talking about even in politics.

Those who are in That are ruling over us.

God is in control there as well, and we do not need to fear that even.

Sure, even think even today.

I was I was noticing about 11 o 'clock in the morning.

Stocks were down a hundred and eighty points

and people said Lee

is not in

our dock.

Not in calling our broker.

There will not be a drop of any significance.

But the reality is that Even if we'd lose it

all and we'd be bankrupt We would say still our Heavenly Father provides.

He cares for the birds of the air and will leave to the field.

He's gonna provide for me.

I think we we have to look at not Have to

go.

He will be there with me to provide my daily bread.

He provided for the Israelites.

He'll care for me.

Well, you even Job said though.

He's slain me yet.

Well, I trust in him.

That's.

What would I didn't catch though that you didn't mention is how did it actually turn out with your son?

Oh.

Well, that's an interesting 27 years

old children's hospital where in the first week

he had to I

can you really

do

anything

with this?

Taekwondo within five seconds.

I was on the floor.

My daughter got into that too and it's like well, how do you ground them when they when they're like that?

By the way, I've got I've

got come from all.

When he

saw spina bifida in the baby on the ultrasound.

He says mr. Chansky.

We have options here.

Meaning we can take him out with an abortion.

Very deformed life.

Amen, and by the way, I just wanted to let you know the last two questions and comments were from Reverend buzz Taylor My co

-host.

I have to say that because people have said that we sound a lot alike which.

Yeah, if it sounds really intelligent, it's me.

Yeah, right, but anyway Let's see, we have an

anonymous listener in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania who says that

one of the things that I have most fear of is the eternal destiny of my

Children none of whom are Christian.

I don't know how any parent can ever face a child dying out of

Christ and entering into Eternal hell.

The thought of it is unfathomable unfathomable to me.

I cannot believe that I will ever be able to Accept such a horrible

fate for my precious children if they do not come to faith before they depart this earth.

What counsel can you provide?

Well, I guess

look like if you were standing there at judgment and You were on the right

side on the left side with the goat about

to be talking about facing your worst fear

on that

last and

I Think of Spurgeon Virgin's

mother do not

rip on

the day of

judgment.

I think we can love our children

and and I

doubt fully

wrap my brain

and my heart is with my five kids and I and

And don't

you think that

this

is another one of those.

Instances where a strongly held firmly held

belief in God's sovereignty really is an anchor for us because

This is a time when The Christian can proclaim

as we read in Genesis 18 verse 25 Shall not the judge of all the

earth do right?

We we truly lay these things in the hands of God and we know

That although it is our duty to evangelize To be a

loving witness to the lost to be

Representatives of Jesus Christ on this earth.

We know that we are sinners and that we will always Fail in many ways while we do those things

and there the salvation of the lost is not up to us and God that

is also in the hands of God that this the salvation of his people.

And also the reprobation of the lost.

Or the damned is all in his hands ultimately.

Yeah, I think that text the judge of all the earth will do what's right.

Even think of Leviticus 11 Nadab and Abihu Offering up

strain and how they were

consistent

which was a

living God and so

off my ten

Chauvin God who dies that will and

we're gonna go to our.

Final break of the day right now if you have questions for pastor Mark Chansky on

Staring your worst fear straight in the eye.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris ARN z e and gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the USA and.

As our last listener did you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable because you're talking about.

Or asking about a personal and private matter that compels you not reveal your identity.

We will honor that request but our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with pastor Mark Chansky.

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For a half hour and the next half hour to come.

Pastor Mark Chansky, Pastor of the Harbor Reformed Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan.

Teacher of hermeneutics for the Reformed Baptist Seminary of Easley, South Carolina.

And we are discussing Stare Your Worst Fears.

Right in the Eye.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

And we do have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Who wants to know, is all fear connected with sin?

I think there's a sense in

which the wise man sees the danger

of fear.

And hides himself, but the fool continues on and suffers for it.

And I think he can

responsibly do, I mean, he's

on the bubble.

And fear in that sense,

might be

endangered, being

out till, give

him a curfew.

Even the guy

in my church

who's 20 -something and fears he's not going to be married.

Practically do, maybe you can

lose about 30

pounds.

Or maybe take a shower now and then.

Or maybe you can make yourself more volcanic.

Or people in your church and ask, are there quirky things about me?

So I do think those fears in that sense, not...

Rev. Buzz Taylor has a comment or question.

Even a Pentecostal pastor once told me If a grizzly bear is coming after you, it's not time to

rebuke the spirit of fear.

It's time to run.

It's not adrenaline, right?

Exactly, but this whole idea of facing the fear.

Let me just toss in another text, because I want to really screw in this principle.

So it'll be secure in the mind, it's not just man's

scriptures.

And the Psalms in particular, which really are the pharmacy for mental health, aren't they?

Psalm 27 -1, David says, The Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear?

The Lord is the defense of my life, of whom shall I be afraid?

And then he gives these worst case scenarios, the next verse.

When evildoers come upon me to devour my flesh.

Or, when my adversaries and my enemies surround me.

He says, even then I shall be confident.

Even if he gives one more, he speaks about.

For the Lord will take me up.

I mean, imagine David, he's being hunted.

And everybody's turned their back on him.

Seeing him as his mom and his dad.

And they're back on.

Even if I would be such an orphan that no one cared for me, he says.

Yet the Lord will take me up.

So, he looks the worst case scenario right in the eye.

In fact, let me just give this illustration.

And I'll let you pop back in, Chris.

When my...

I went to a new house.

And there was...

He was terrified about sleep.

Because the idea

is, late one night I got one of those extension cords.

And one of those shop lights.

Went into the dreaded attic.

With my son Jared, my firstborn.

And I said, OK, Jared, let's see what's in here.

He's facing his fears.

What's in this attic that's really going to hurt you?

And I said, oh, look over there, Jared.

And then, look over there.

Look there, Jared, on the...

It's the abominable...

The point is...

Go back in, but the point is He slept like a baby.

From then on, having...

We do have a listener From your neck of the woods, Pastor Mark.

We have Kevin from Holland, Michigan Who writes in Since the Word of God is sufficient For all

of our needs What scriptures have you found To be helps in dealing with Your own

personal fears?

Like when you wake up at 3am And your mind keeps reeling with anxious thoughts.

I mean, you don't have any personal fears, do you?

No, no, I just read books about this.

I just read books about this.

He

never sleeps.

He never slumbers.

He watches our going out and coming in.

From this time forth and forevermore.

So I say at 3am when I get up.

Sometimes my wife says Maybe you should get up.

And he hasn't

assigned

me To stay awake all night in that sense.

I mean, there are times when I'm stopping and praying.

But not for us.

Because the Lord is the one Who stays awake all night.

In the morning Whether it be 6 .30 or 7 o 'clock

He takes our night watch.

He watches.

In fact, as far as myself Just this example of facing the fears.

There was a time when I was out

in Oregon.

And I really...

When I was at my home in the morning.

And the phone in my mind.

Again, there's late night, right?

My mind began to think Why would someone be calling Unless there was some

emergency.

Maybe back in Holland.

An 18 -year -old son Who's been in some kind of an accident.

Or had some kind of a...

I'm telling you, I was wide awake.

But then I just thought to myself.

I just thought to myself.

Alright, alright I need to be able to say

He will comfort me.

And even if Diane and I In five days are back in Holland, Michigan.

He's gonna be with us there.

At that mortuary I'm gonna meditate on that fact Of the Lord being with me.

And Rod and staff comforting.

And I fell asleep!

That was the...

That was the tranquilizer for my soul.

So, yeah I do have these problems.

And I do find myself anxious.

And I find this to be The best sedative for my soul.

Well, thank you, Kevin.

And by the way, since I believe You are a first -time questioner You have received a free

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One of the things that I have Noticed over the years That troubles me.

And this is something That I've noticed with Pastors that I know

Both from The fundamentalist Independent fundamentalist Background and

also From reformed Circles That there seems to be

a fear Amongst these men That they are not

Either fundamentalist Enough or Reformed enough Whichever side of the spectrum you're on

For the likings of their Friends and colleagues In the ministry.

And I can tell I know on certain occasions That

men have Really kept silent About certain issues That they

are convicted about That they believe Because they know that they will be out of favor With their friends in the ministry.

And of course you also have A universally Held fear amongst

Pastors and Ministers from The whole spectrum Of Christendom

Regardless of whether it's genuine Biblical Christianity or even liberal.

Where you may have pastors just Afraid that they are going to lose their job Because they're not making their congregation happy.

How can you address those issues When it comes to those kinds of fears.

And I Have you experienced that yourself?

Where you think that.

Or you are convinced that men Are really not Being totally up front

and honest And following their convictions From what they see in the scriptures.

Because they're afraid they're going to be outcasts With their colleagues in ministry.

For myself And I can say Sure there is a desire

to be esteemed And the proverb warns that The fear of man Will prove to be a

snare.

And there can be times When if we're a part Of a certain theological

Certain group of churches And there may

be certain doctrines That these churches champion Or I

mean Among the

issue of And speaking out of the trinity hymnal That

if you would divert People

on

me with

their

lips

I think we need to Be most concerned about using the word

To be

concerned

about Echoing people

may

have Even in our own churches.

Well before we run out of time I want to make sure that you focus on something that you said At the outset of the program

That you wanted to really Pay most of your attention to Towards the end of the

interview.

And that's the subject of death Something that men and women Are universally afraid of.

Yeah I appreciate that Chris.

I appreciate that.

We talk about faith and I again I go back.

Conscience is About your dying day aren't

unfounded Versus

the day

of

the

wrath

I believe it's

still to again hide themselves

In the Lord Jesus.

In Bartimaeus you

know

Son of David have mercy.

He's not paying attention.

Son of David

have tears in my heart.

Pass me by but I have

just mercy on me.

And if I come to the Unjudgment day Even if I'm on the left

side And the angels are about to heave hold me Into the lake of fire.

I'm going to keep shouting out Till I get

mercy on me.

And that passage in Mark 10

Crying out for mercy that's a savior.

Because the Lord Jesus Lord Jesus draws

trust

not in my

deed But in the work of my Savior.

That is my I guess life preserver When I feel like I'm drowning in my own sin.

Arnie in Perry County Pennsylvania wants to know If you put a very high level of importance On good

Christian friends In order to confide in When battling these terrifying fears.

He who walks of the wise Grows wise but the friend Of fools suffers

harm.

And I

think

to a

number

of weeks Where I'd spend the night with him Because we

didn't know if this would be the night he would die People would discuss with him.

Hey Glenn are you okay.

And my sins you

know.

And just have a

brother.

The Lord Jesus Christ written

down And he was worn out by the time that he died On that

deathbed It was Romans 10 9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord

and believe in your heart That God raised him from the dead And he just clung to

that promise.

Amen and especially Because there are certain things I'm assuming

that you As a pastor believe that we Should not reveal some of our Most

secret fears To just anybody But there needs to be a good friend that we know We can confide in

In certain cases in this regard.

Yeah I think there's a truth to that I think in Psalm 73 Asaph speaks about.

Look

at how transparent

and

open This man

after God's own heart Is.

There's not even a flicker of light In Psalm.

This is my closest friend.

And I think we need to be Candid enough To

myself.

So that people don't think somehow I must be way off course.

To be candid enough to express.

Yeah me too.

No temptation has seized you.

But that which is common to man I think we need to be able to.

Amen.

And if you could let our listeners know.

Something in summary form about your two books Manly Dominion and Womanly Dominion.

On the passage in Genesis chapter 1 The firmage

of God And he says be fruitful multiply Rule over the

Get out there

and womanly dominion too.

Women aren't just to be well.

The Subtitle is more than a gentle and quiet spirit.

And if anybody listening Wants to get those books You could go to CVBBS .com

CV for Cribblewood Valley BBS for Bible Book Service dot com.

And ask for The books by Mark Chansky.

C -H -A -N -S -K -I Manly Dominion.

And also the second book Womanly Dominion.

Those are two separate books.

And the Harbor Reform Baptist Church.

Their website is HarborChurchHolland .org HarborChurchHolland

.org.

I want to remind you about The Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology.

They're having two events.

One is in Byron Center, Michigan.

That's going to be held March 24th Through the 26th at the First Christian Reform Church of Byron Center.

The second is at Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania.

And then we also have As I was mentioning the Faithful Shepherd Pastors Retreat May 15th

Through the 17th At the Alliance.

Well it's being sponsored by the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals At Harvey Cedars Bible Conference.

In Harvey Cedars, New Jersey.

On Long Beach Island.

And go to AllianceNet .org AllianceNet .org.

For all the information on those events.

I want to thank you Pastor Mark Chansky For being my guest today and I look forward to you Coming back very soon and very often.

Alright Chris, thank you Blessings.

And I want to thank everybody who listened.

Especially those who wrote in questions.

I want to thank the Reverend Buzz Taylor for being my co -host today.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior Than you

are a sinner.