Matt Slick Live: July 16, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, your list of Matt Slick Live.

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And today's date is July 16th, 2024. The millennium is flying by.

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Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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You can also email me to do that. Just send an email to info at CARM .org.

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Info at CARM, C -A -R -M dot O -R -G. And just put in the subject line, a radio comment or radio question.

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And it should work fine. We're having problems with our rumble feed.

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I don't know what or why, but there you go. Hopefully everything else is right and Laura will let me know.

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She'll private text me some stuff and we'll figure it out. I am unmuted in there too.

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Okay, so everything's good. We've got all this stuff going. And let's just jump on the callers.

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Longest waiting so far already. Is Funny, or Funee, whatever, from Ohio. Welcome. You're on the air.

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Thank you for taking my call. Yesterday, yeah, I mentioned in 518 of King James that it was problematic.

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Yes. Because the free gift is italicized. Right. And I'm wondering why that's a problem because, though it's not in the original, it clearly is amplifying or clarifying what is in 515 where it speaks of the free gift.

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But it's not what it says there. It's just that simple. So if you were to just understand in Romans 518 that if it's just the free gift is all that's being spoken of, that's all that it means, then you're not going to dig theologically, you're not going to learn.

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And that's the problem that's happening is that it's not providing.

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Let me do this really fast. The King James Version. The King James is a good Bible, but it has some translation problems, and I wouldn't use it for apologetics.

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Titus 2 .13 is wrong. Romans 5 .18 is wrong. It has anachronisms. It has some issues.

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But as far as Romans 5 .18 goes, it's not what it says. It does not say, and the free gift came.

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It doesn't say that. That's earlier. But in 515, it does speak of, well, that's just clarification.

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No, it's not clarification. It's blurification. It's not letting the

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Word of God speak for what it actually says. The translators are then interpreting it, saying it's a free gift that came.

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It's not what it is, because what it actually is saying in the second part is that the one act of righteousness of Christ, the resulted justification of life to all men, that's what's going on.

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That's not what the King James says. Who are the ungodly in 5 .6?

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Who are the ungodly in 5 .6? The ungodly are the ungodly.

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That's what it is. The ungodly. That's everybody. Everybody's ungodly. Everybody is.

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But it says Christ died for the ungodly. Yes, but we're talking about Romans 5 .18,

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not Romans 5 .6. I guess that was a second question,

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I guess. Are you a King James only person? Well, you didn't answer my question about 5 .6.

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I did. I said the ungodly is the ungodly. It's everybody, okay? But Christ died for the ungodly, so that's everybody.

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Yeah, it's a generic term. It's a generic thing. It's hyperbole, the ungodly.

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It can be inclusive or it can be exclusive, okay?

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So those who are not elect according to the Calvinist are not ungodly?

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No. No, when he says he died for the ungodly, who did Jesus die for? Do you believe he died for every individual who ever lived?

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Of course. Okay, so what I'm going to do is go to 1 Samuel 3 .14. I'm going to read it to you, okay?

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And then let's see what God says. Okay, it says in 1 Samuel 3 .14,

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Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

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So, did Jesus bear the sin of Eli's house? Well, you said everybody was ungodly.

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Okay, but you're not answering the question, okay? Did Jesus bear the sin of Eli's house?

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Because it says that they would not be atoned. I'd have to look at that because I know even like what

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Esau and Jacob in the womb, you know, you're talking about two different nations. It's not nations, it's individuals.

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No, no, no, no. Well, if you... Okay, well, you would just... No, hold on, hold on. I've been doing this for 33 years, defending this.

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I know this very well. It's a standard argument out of Romans 9 that it's just nations. But it's not.

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And I can show you why it's not. I can show you exactly why in Romans 9 it is not about nations, it's about individuals.

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I can show it to you if you're interested. I've done this a hundred times. Well, I'm not, but thank you. You're not?

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Thank you. Wait, hold on. I've got a question for you. Why are you not interested? No, no, because you didn't... We didn't really cover who the ungodly are.

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But you... And you're suggesting... But I did. You go to another scripture and it's kind of like... No, look, ma 'am.

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We're not really... But... No, no, no. I did. I said... You said, who's the ungodly? I said, the ungodly is everyone.

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Then I'm cluing in what you're doing. Christ died for the ungodly, so now you want to say he died for everybody.

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Then I said to you that the word ungodly can be inclusive or exclusive. It can include all individuals or it can only include the people for whom

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Christ died, because they certainly would be ungodly, wouldn't he? If you have a thousand people and all of them are bad and you pick a hundred out, you say they're bad.

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It doesn't mean every individual. And so I'm trying to prove to you, trying to prove from God's word, that I'm proving it.

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First Samuel 3 .14, gee, God says, God says that the iniquities of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

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And when I show people this, they usually just ignore the verse, because it doesn't fit their theology.

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Well, no, no, it's not that it doesn't fit the theology. It's just kind of, you know, you have to put it into context. What's the context?

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You're trying to use something, you know, you can pick any one verse in the Bible and you can do anything with it.

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Okay. Can I try another verse for you then? Let's see what you do with this. You know, because, you know, you'll say, okay, if I lift it up,

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I will draw all men to me. But then you qualify what all is there. John 12 .32. Yeah, because you don't say it's all men.

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You say it's all nations. It's of all nations. So, you know, you're very exclusive that way.

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Well, Jesus was. Jesus was exclusive. Did you know? Why would God grieve over the evil people if he programmed them to be that way?

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He didn't program them. Where are you getting all this? You're getting all this kind of weird information.

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We don't say program. No, it's not. It's not it. Look, let me tell you, you've been listening to a bunch of people misrepresent what reform theology is.

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Yes, you have. Because what you just said is proof of it. Ma 'am, look,

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I've been doing this for over 30 years. I have a master's of divinity. I don't know that much about Calvinism. Excuse me.

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I don't know why you keep interrupting. You say I'm brainwashed. I didn't say you're brainwashed.

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You keep misrepresenting what I'm saying. You're reacting and not hearing

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God's word. You're reacting. I'm telling you, we Calvinists don't say that God programmed people.

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We never say that. It's never the case. When you say they're programmed,

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I say, no, that's not it. You don't even say, well, okay, thank you for correcting that. I didn't know.

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You just continue on and you ignore the correction. You go on to something else. So God didn't die for everyone or God did die for everyone?

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No, he did not. Jesus did not. Let me ask you, is sin a legal debt?

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Is it a debt to God? Of course. Yes, it is. Okay, good. So if a legal debt is paid for, does it exist anymore?

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You have to receive or reject. I didn't ask you if you have to receive it. I said, if a legal debt is paid for, does it exist anymore?

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You have to appropriate it. Ma 'am, I didn't ask that. I didn't ask that. I asked a question.

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If you don't believe it, it doesn't matter if you don't believe it. I didn't ask that. I said, if a debt is paid for, does it exist anymore?

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Just a simple question. Why can't you answer the simple question? If a debt's paid for, what you're doing is you're saying that the power of the atonement...

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No, listen. You can't even answer a simple question. You ignore the question like you ignored the other stuff

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I said, and you go on. I ask you a very simple question. If a debt is paid for, does it exist anymore?

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You know the answer. The answer is no, it doesn't. Well, then if he paid the debt for everybody who ever lived, why does anybody go to hell?

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Then you're going to say you've got to receive it. But that's John 1 .12. He's received him.

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But did you know that God's the one who grants that people have faith? Philippians 1 .29. Did you know that in Acts 13 .48

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it says, For as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed... Did you know that God's the one who does this?

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Most people don't want to hear it. And the reason most Christians don't want to hear it is because they don't want

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God's sovereignty. They want their own. Well, that's what you say.

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Oh, yeah. I've talked to thousands and thousands and thousands of people about this topic over 40 years.

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Okay, and I'm telling you. I mean, let me ask you again. Really, this is a test.

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Okay. If a legal debt, the debt is paid for, does it exist anymore?

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It has to be appropriated. I didn't ask if it has to be appropriated. Does it exist anymore?

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Well, you could have a million dollars in your account that somebody put there. But if you don't receive it, it doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter. Here's the mistake you're making. Lovingly, I'm going to say this, okay?

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You've got to hear something, okay? What you're doing is you're saying the sacrifice of Christ isn't powerful until you do something.

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You're saying... You don't do anything by believing or... You said you have to appropriate it.

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You said you have to appropriate it. Believing is not a work.

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It's the work of God, John 6 .29. It's the work of God, John 6 .29. And James, there's a contrast between faith and work.

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Yeah, James 2, 14 through 26. Faith is not...

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Believing something is not a work. Believing something is a work, it's the work of God.

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Jesus says this is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent. Well, he gave every man a measure of faith.

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Ma 'am, do you realize that you're hopscotching all over the place? You're not focused. Well, because you are too.

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I'm trying to keep up. I'm responding to what you're saying. You're not focusing. Let's test you.

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Let's test you. If a debt is paid for, does it exist anymore?

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As again... Does it exist? Look, if you have a million... Somebody puts a million dollars in your bank account.

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You can't answer. But you don't believe. You don't believe it's there. Whether you believe it's there or not has no bearing on if it's there or not.

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It means it's there, but it doesn't... But you have to have faith. You have a post -modern philosophy you're imposing upon Scripture.

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This isn't the Bible all over the place. You try to believe. No, this is Arminianism and it's weak theology.

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Yes, it is. And it's a problem. It's just being biblical. And you can't even answer the basic questions.

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We've got to go. Well, we can move on. Okay. All right. Hey, folks. I encounter people like that frequently.

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They don't want to listen. They don't want to learn. They don't want to submit to God's Word. They want something else.

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Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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All right, Armin. Welcome back to the show. That was a lively discussion. I actually encounter people like that a lot.

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I ask them direct questions. They won't answer them because it doesn't agree with their theology.

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And they get stuck. That's what happens. Let's get to Jamal from North Carolina. Jamal, welcome. You're on the air.

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Well, it's a great pleasure, Brett. Good to see you. Hey, man. Thanks for taking my phone call. Sure, man.

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Just to go off that last conversation, no offense to that lady or not, but if somebody takes care of a debt, then that debt does not exist.

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So if somebody paid your fare at a restaurant, you can't pay for something that's already been paid for.

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That's right. They took care of that meal, so you can't pay for that meal anymore. I'll even go a step further and say, well, if you had that million dollars in the bank and you didn't take it or not, that's on you.

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If you took that money or not, that money's still there. That's right. So, I mean, whatever kind of analogy you'd like to use, if a debt's been paid, it's been paid.

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Of course, no offense to that lady. Yeah, and I ask Armenians that all the time about the atonement, and it stumps them instantly because they know the debt is gone.

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Well, then if that's gone, how can you be judged? Well, you've got to receive it. It's up to you. Here's the thing they don't realize, that what they're doing is saying that the actual sacrifice of Christ and what he actually did didn't happen.

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That's not quite what I said. Did not accomplish what it was supposed to, but it's activated and empowered when you decide to do something, when you appropriate it, when you believe, then it becomes effective.

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And so it's humanist philosophy that's being taught there, and it's bad news. Yeah, I got into it with a friend of mine, and it's funny because a lot of people use the same tactics when they don't want to purely seek out the truth.

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They will bounce around. They will not answer direct questions, and they will sometimes result to, well, this is my feeling, or this is how

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I interpret it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's go around feelings and interpretations.

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If you call yourself a Christian, let's go with what the Bible says word for word.

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You know, I was going to take you to Colossians 2 .14 where it says, having canceled out the certificate of debt.

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And I asked people, what is that certificate of debt? It's the Greek word kairagraphon, handwritten

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IOU of legal indebtedness. And the previous verse, it says, Jesus having forgiven us all our transgressions.

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Verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt. And I ask them, what is that? And they say, the sin debt. And I say, let's read the rest of it.

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Consisting of decrees against us which was hostile to us, he took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

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And I say, when was the certificate of debt canceled? Not when you believe.

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When it was nailed to the cross. And that verse right there, and the truth that's embedded in it, has stumbled so many

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Christians. I remember once I was talking to a guy, literally, I watched the clock, 20 minutes before I got him to finally agree.

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We went over it 50 times. In 20 minutes I said, where does it say it was canceled? He said, when you believe.

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I said, let's go over it again. And finally for 20 minutes he said, okay, when he nailed it to the cross. And I said, why did it take 20 minutes for you to finally submit to the word of God?

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What's wrong with you? And I ask him, what's wrong with you? Because your pride is such that, your theology is so good, how you understand everything, that when it's confronted with the word of God, you in your stubbornness will not submit to the word of God.

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What's wrong with you? That's what I hope. You know, I was about to say the exact same thing.

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I was going to say, you know, pride and ego are terrible things. I'm glad you have your theology, sir, man.

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That's good. But again, we always got to go back to what the word says.

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Don't be afraid that you're thinking that theology is going to be debunked by what the

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Bible says. This is not a Muslim talking to you. This is not somebody from Joseph Smith's camp, the

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Mormon is talking to you. This is another Christian talking to you. So don't be afraid that any question is going to get you off of Christianity.

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As long as somebody is opening up that word, probably not King James, because I heard a conversation earlier, but ESV or something like that.

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If they're reading from a good translation, then, you know, trust that. But like Paul says, do all things in prayer and supplication, you know, so pray about what you discuss.

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I mean, don't let your ego keep you from following the word. But sorry. Went down that rabbit hole.

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That's not what I called you. So what was your question? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Sorry about that. My question was, and forgive me if I asked this before, because I asked this to a few mentors of mine.

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I consider you an unofficial mentor. Stu Epperson, you too. In case you're listening, Stu, you're still my unofficial mentor as well.

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So yeah, he's very good. Would you run this country, the

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United States, as a theocracy? No, I wouldn't. If I were, if I was in control.

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What I would do is let people have the freedom of what they want to do. And I would work very hard to get the fundamentals of Christianity taught in schools and all kinds of places.

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People don't have to be forced to do anything so they can learn the principles of what truth and goodness are. It needs to be in all of our schools and all over the place.

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It's not a brainwashing thing. People can watch what they want to watch. But when you start taking God out of things, you have no cohesive methodology or philosophical foundation by which you can then justify right, wrong, or anything.

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And then what happens is everyone does what's right in his own eyes. And a kingdom divided against itself will fall. When this country was founded, it was founded by the

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Presbyterians, the Calvinists, who came in and started a, oh yeah, people don't know that, but it's true, pilgrims.

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And they came in to start a Christian nation. And there's some really remarkable things that happened at the beginning of this country.

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And of course, there's a lot of imperfections too. I mean, there's slavery stupidity and some other stuff like that.

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They did this stuff. But still, the principles were incredible. And so that's one of the reasons the country's so great and so strong.

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But because of the fracturing of truth, then you don't have unity.

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We're living in a very severe post -modernist, woke, philosophically weak society.

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And this is what the devil wants. So I say get Christianity taught.

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Not Islam, because it's a pagan, filthy religion of murder. And certainly not

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Roman Catholicism, because it teaches idolatry all over the place. Get Protestantism in.

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That's what I would try. Would it work? I don't know. That's what I would try. So how can we maybe split that here, saying, well, let's have a

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Protestantist, excuse me, Protestantism, whatever that word is, you guys know what

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I'm talking about, a form of Christianity, and not having Islam.

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How do we make that argument? It's easy and not easy.

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What we do as Christians is start behaving like Christians. Because what

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Christians tend to do, largely, is go to church on Sunday with an air -conditioned,

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GPS -driven car. The seat might be heated or cooled.

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Then they go into the nice church that's air -conditioned and the nice chairs, and they get a nice sermon and everything, and cookies and stuff.

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This is all nice. Then they go to a restaurant and get served. Then they watch a ball game, maybe on Sunday, whatever it is.

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Then on Monday, they go to work, and they don't talk about Jesus, because it's relegated to Sunday morning.

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They don't live for Him externally in risk. This is one of the fundamental problems. We've got a break.

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Hold on, buddy. We'll continue with this. Hey, folks, you want to give me a call? You've got to wait.

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No, we don't. We don't have any open lines, so you've got to hold on. We'll be right back after the break.

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It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying our interesting discussions today.

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So, Jamal, are you still there? Yes, sir. All right, man. All right, buddy.

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So, no, not as a theocracy. I'd certainly want Christianity to be promoted as much as possible.

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Okay? All right. And if I was a dictator, and then I'd have you be my second -in -command, how's that?

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Oh, man. You know what? I might have to throw a coup on you and then run this place as a theocracy. Okay. I've got to be careful with that.

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No, I'd be respectful. But, no, I probably would run it as a theocracy.

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I'd probably do a slick light. And it's very interesting, that take, because I do agree with that, because I do believe in freedom of speech, at best, in the

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Constitution. I do believe in freedom of religion. So, before I get out of here, let me ask you this.

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So, if we were to preach Protestantism, got it that time, took like five tries, if we were to preach that instead of Islam, you would say that's fine.

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Yeah. My question would be, and excuse me if you already answered that, what argument could we make to say some

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Christianity is good here, good here, but not everywhere? No, it's good everywhere.

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Christianity is good everywhere because it comes from the true and living God, and it teaches self -sacrifice. It does not promote socialism or communism.

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The people in office, if they really were Christians, are not going to be sitting there taking kickbacks. They're not going to be trying to get money and power.

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They're going to be fearing God, the respectful kind of fear that they should have, knowing that they're going to be held accountable on the

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Day of Judgment for what they do in office. People like that are not going to become bribed.

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They're not going to do special interest stuff for themselves. They're going to do something different.

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They're going to behave differently. And you won't have the idiocy and stupidity that's going on on the

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Democratic Party, which is, in my opinion, a terrorist organization, the equivalent to, just the equivalent to.

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So they wouldn't have the killing of babies in the womb for the convenience of people.

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And the LGBT mob, the alphabet mob, wouldn't be pushing their crap on children in schools.

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Okay, so I guess, to try to put it into my own words, just to make sure

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I understood you correctly, we can preach and support Christianity everywhere, but we also can make room for other beliefs.

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Is that correct? That's just how it is. That's what God does. That's what Jesus did. And we're not to force it on people.

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Now, Islam will force it on people. When Islam, when Muslims become the dominant thing, they are aggressive and deadly and violent.

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That's not the case with Christianity. And we need to understand that, as Christians, if we were to have a

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Christian nation in control and all that kind of stuff, that we can't force people. But we would want to pass laws, and the

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Christian majority would hold that, that Bible studies could be held in school. Amen.

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You wouldn't have pornography being put in sitcoms or whatever it is for the children to watch.

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Right. This kind of stuff needs to stop. And righteousness.

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I remember when I went to the local college here, and this really opened my eyes to something, a comment.

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But I went there to the philosophy class, and the professor asked me to come in as a Christian and give a defense for the existence of the

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Christian God. You know, he was just, she was just being, having different people come in. And I asked the students some basic questions, just basic philosophy questions.

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And they didn't have a clue what was going on. They could not think.

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They could not think critically. They did not know how to think critically. And so what's happening, in my opinion, in America, is people are not taught to think critically.

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They're taught to not think critically. They're taught to react. They're taught to just feel their way through stuff.

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Not to understand, for example, that there must be a unifying principle and an ultimate standard by which we then have all other things derive.

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Because all events that occur, occur in a set of contexts which have causes that precede them.

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So all events ultimately back to the ultimate cause. Well, we need to discuss this kind of thing.

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What does that mean? But no, we don't have that. What we have is everybody say, well, morale is what you want it to be.

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And truth is what you want it to be. And it makes no sense. It's not logical to say that kind of a thing.

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But this is what's promoted in society today. So they're not taught critical thinking, which I have to teach

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Christians critical thinking as well as unbelievers. That's right. Which is ridiculous.

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Not that I'm a great thinker, but it's all the time. Okay? So we're in trouble. Okay? Yeah.

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Final question real quick. So what would you call that version of government? Would that be Christian -like government? Slickism.

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I don't know. Slickism? Slickism, yeah. Copyrighted? It would just be a bit,

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I think, biblical. It's a big topic. Theocracy and theonomy and things like that.

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I believe that if you have people in control, that it'll just take a few decades, well, maybe a century or two, to become corrupt.

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It only needs people in time. And certain things need to be put in place.

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That's why we have a three -tier form of government, so that no one branch can become empowered.

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But the left is in control of all of them. And look at what's happening in our country. It's just a laughingstock in the world.

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And the stupid, moronic leftists, they can't think straight. It's just incredible.

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Because they've been brainwashed. Anyway, we've got to get going. Okay, buddy? Yes, sir. Thank you very much. God bless.

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All right, Jamal. God bless. I know I just stepped on a lot of toes with that, but you know what? I don't care. Let's get to Carolyn from Dayton.

29:34

Carolyn, welcome. You're on the air. Thanks. Hi, Matt. I've only been listening for a couple months, but I've already learned a lot from you.

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I just had an incident that I just wanted to run past you. I attended a funeral recently in a small local church.

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It's the same denomination as what I've been attending, which you told me to get out of, the

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Nazarenes. But anyway, this funeral was a very good friend of mine, and I knew he was a

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Mason. But they had the funeral. It was done by the

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Masons. I have never sat in quite a ceremony as that.

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But I know in our manual there is something regarding prohibiting members being members of those kind of associations.

30:30

Is there anything in the Bible that talks about this? Yes. We are not to participate in secret oaths and things like this, particularly to false gods, and that's what the

30:44

Masons do. So there's a lot of problems in the Masonic realm. And though most people who are low -level

30:53

Masons, hey, they're just in a club, and they have things they do. But when you get into the higher levels, it actually is demonic.

31:02

The 33rd level and before there, they have certain things where they swear allegiance to God, but it's not the

31:12

Christian God. Once I went into a Masonic hall, and I opened up two books.

31:17

I was the only one in this hall, and I opened up two books. And one of the books said,

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Jesus is not God. And the other one said, Christians are a problem. We need to get rid of them. I remember reading that.

31:29

So no true Christian should be involved with the

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Masonic lodge when it requires oaths, secret oaths with secret codes, and then when it goes to false gods, which it does.

31:49

Well, it just amazed me that they would allow that to be done in our church. I mean, in the church.

31:55

I mean, it was just mind -blowing for me. Okay, you can tell me again,

32:03

Matt. Well, the Nazarene denomination is going downhill. I don't trust the

32:09

Nazarenes. I just don't trust them. The Northwest Nazarene University is about three miles from me, as a crow flies.

32:20

Basically, I talked once to their pre -seminary students once.

32:26

I forgot exactly what the program was. Supposed to know theology. They didn't know anything. I asked basic questions.

32:31

You know, Jesus is a man right now? Well, I don't know. It was ridiculous.

32:37

They had Paul Young, the author of The Shack, that heresy book, had him out speaking.

32:43

And I talked to a guy. I had an incident where I got out of a car at a building, and there was this rainbow flag, and it said

32:52

Nazarene, stuff underneath the Nazarene church. People were coming out right when I parked, and I said, Hey, what's up with this?

32:58

And he said, long story short, he says, Oh, yeah, we love everybody, and they're all welcome here. I said, Well, yeah, is it a sin?

33:04

Oh, no, it's not a sin. I said, Homosexuality is not a sin? The guy got mad at me, and he said, Oh, yeah, do you even know what the

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Greek word for homosexual is? And I said, Arsenikoikos. It's in 1 Corinthians 6 -9. It doesn't do with that after that.

33:20

So, yeah, it's a bad denomination. They have women pastors and elders, too. You can't trust them.

33:27

That's what I'm fearing. Anyway, keep up the good work, Slick Matt. Okay, Carolyn.

33:36

Thank you. Really appreciate it. All right, God bless. Okay, bye. Okay. Okay, we've got two more callers and one more break.

33:44

So when we get back, we'll get to Kenny from High Point. What would have happened if Adam never ate the fruit?

33:51

And then Buskman, the phrase, We're not electing a pastor, we're electing a president. Ooh, interesting.

33:57

We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

34:10

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:16

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Last segment of the hour. Let's get to Kenny from High Point, North Carolina.

34:22

Kenny, welcome. You're on the air, if you're still there.

34:28

Are you there, Kenny? Yes, I'm here. How are you doing? Okay, now

34:34

I hear you. Good. All right, man. Sorry for the long wait, buddy. What do you got? Oh, yeah, it's okay.

34:42

I got a question. I've always wanted to get this question. I asked my pastor. She's passed away now.

34:48

It's been a long time. Wait, wait, wait. She? Did you say a female pastor? It was a she pastor.

34:56

Years ago. She's gone now. That was a long time ago. Women pastors are not biblical.

35:02

Go ahead. Go ahead. Right. Okay, so if Adam wouldn't have bitten of the fruit and Eve did what she did, would we be in the same trouble now?

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Because when I asked my pastor then, she said it wouldn't matter because both of them were married.

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She said if one didn't bite of the fruit, we still would have the same problem if he didn't bite it at all.

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So what do you have to say about that? Because I'm trying to get an answer. No, that's not a good answer. Sin entered the world through one man,

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Romans 5 .12. It was through Adam because he was the federal head. Eve was not the federal head. Eve sinned first, but sin did not enter the world through her but through Adam.

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So for her to say that it didn't matter that she did, that it would have been there, is wrong. It's bad theology.

35:52

She did not understand what she was in that area. She didn't understand that theological perspective. All right. So if Adam had not sinned, had not eaten the fruit, he would have eaten it later.

36:01

He would have done something wrong later. And if somehow he didn't, then his son would have.

36:09

Someone's going to do it. And I believe the reason is because they don't have the quality called holiness, which is what

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God's nature is. 1 Peter 1 .16, be holy for I am holy. Now in 1

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Timothy 5 .17, it talks about the angels.

36:28

Talk about the elect angels. And that's really critical because it's 5 .21,

36:36

I believe it is. Yes, it is. 5 .21, 1 Timothy 5 .21. And it says that he before the chosen angels.

36:43

So what I believe is that God chose certain angels not to fall and let the rest of them fall naturally.

36:51

Because they don't possess holiness. They're going to sin. We don't possess holiness. We're going to sin.

36:57

Holiness is a quality that belongs to God's nature, to him alone. And so therefore he has the incapability of violating his own holiness.

37:06

He will always do what is right by his own nature. We don't possess it, so it's just a matter of time before we sin.

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And Adam sinned because that's just what's going to happen. So I don't believe it makes sense to say that Adam could not have sinned.

37:19

I believe he would have sinned, not because God was forcing him to. But because he did not possess the quality that belongs to God alone.

37:27

That holiness in which there can be no sin. And since Adam didn't possess that, it's just a matter of time before he would sin.

37:33

That's my opinion. Wow. Okay. Well, thank you so much.

37:39

I appreciate that. Wow. Okay. Okay. Yes. Well, she had it wrong.

37:47

It's okay. She was thinking because they were married, she said it wouldn't matter. It doesn't matter.

37:53

Because, you know, because they were bone of each other, bone of flesh of each other, flesh. I said, well, you sure one would have ate of the fruit and one didn't?

38:02

It looked like you were right. You're right, I think, because it still would be a problem in the Garden of Eden.

38:08

And it still would be a problem. That's right. Because it wouldn't be walking around saying, ah -ha, you bit of the fruit,

38:17

I didn't. So you're going to get in trouble. But I'm not. He's insane. That's right. That's right.

38:23

Okay, Rudder, that help? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yes, it did. Okay. Thank you.

38:29

All right, man. God bless. All right. Now, hey, if you want to give me a call, we have three open lines, 877 -207 -2276.

38:39

Let's get to Buskman. Hey, Buskman, welcome back. Hey, it's always good to hear your voice.

38:46

Mr. Matt, thanks for your service on Truth Talk Network. Man, I've learned a lot just hanging on the phone, brother.

38:54

I'm kind of close to Jamal's question. And that is, the whole phrase,

39:01

I don't know how to take it, Matt. We're not voting for a pastor.

39:07

We're voting for a president. Are we talking about church politics?

39:17

No, we're talking politics. We're talking in this election cycle. Yeah, we're talking politics. Yeah, good differentiation.

39:29

So because of what happened over the weekend and everything, everybody's charged about the election.

39:35

And for the record, I hated to see that. It really bothered me hearing those chats behind Donald Trump talking.

39:43

It was troubling for me, Matt. But anyway. The what behind him talking? The snapping, the bullets that you could hear in the background of the video, that kind of thing bothers me, you know, to hear that on live

39:58

TV. And to see him duck. So I'm an emotional guy, Matt, so it bothered me.

40:06

So, but back to the election question. Everybody's saying we're not, even on Christian radio, pastors, busmen, we're not electing a pastor.

40:18

We're electing a president. So that poses a question as I pore over Scripture, Matt, how

40:23

God, you know, and I always go to King Saul, Matt, and I'm like, why did the

40:30

Hebrews not choose God to be their king after everything that their

40:36

God had done for them, starting, you know, obviously removing them from Egypt via the power through Moses and using

40:45

Moses as a leader. And yet they get around all these nations and they say, we want a king.

40:50

And God was like, okay, I'm going to give you what you want.

40:56

Do you see any of that happening in our country now?

41:02

Number one. And then number two. Well, let me just stress one thing at a time. Yeah, of course that's happening.

41:08

They are denying, our country is post -modern, post -Christian, anti -Christian now. And so they do not, our country as a whole does not bow to God, does not bow to the truth of who

41:19

Christ is. And our country will fall. It will fail because of it. That's how it always works in history.

41:26

Wow, Matt. I agree with that. And that's what I see in the ancient history that we read about in our

41:34

Old Testaments within our Bibles. And I'm like, okay, if I apply, I believe it's

41:40

Hebrews 13, and they use Jesus, the Hebrew writer used the name Jesus. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

41:48

Then I apply God's, I guess, perspective and will, will be even in 2024 as it was when he was dealing with the ancient

42:01

Hebrews with Moses. And then when they started wanting a king instead of wanting him as their king.

42:10

Right, they get that. They get what they want. So what, you got a question attached to all this? I do.

42:17

I do. I'm laying that preface down because it really bothers me, Matt, to hear this. We're voting for a president, not a pastor.

42:26

And what that says to me, and when I hear pastors say that to me or Christians, you know, well, but how much, how much evil am

42:40

I going to allow when I vote for them, as opposed to,

42:47

I can't take any more. I'm not following you. I'm not following you because your question is multifaceted.

42:55

That's taken different directions. And so I can't follow you, but we are not voting for a pastor.

43:01

A pastor is different than a president. Okay. Here's the question. Here's the question.

43:07

How much evil is allowable for a man to have before you do not vote for him as a

43:13

Christian? As a Christian voter. When you say how much evil, then you have to have a system by which you quantify evil in order to answer the question.

43:23

And then it becomes... Which I use scripture. Yes. And it becomes very, very difficult to...

43:29

Like thou shalt not kill. I use the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not kill.

43:35

Yeah. It's actually thou shalt not murder. Okay. It's okay to kill. Correct. Under the right circumstances.

43:40

Murder is not. All right. Yes. And 14 -week -old, six -day -old babies.

43:47

Should not be murdered. Is murder. Yep. Should not be murdered. That's right. But the current big voting bloc, if you will, is going to say, yes, that's okay,

43:57

Pastor. No, I don't think they're saying it's okay. No, no, no. You've got to be careful. You've got to be careful. You can't say that.

44:03

They're saying it's okay. They're not saying that. If they vote for Trump. If they vote for him.

44:09

Hold on. Hold on. If they vote for Trump, you can't say that all people who do that are automatically saying, it's okay to kill babies in the womb because he's not as pro -life as he needs to be.

44:19

And he doesn't need to be pro -life all the way. So you can't say that's what they're saying. It's an improper inference.

44:27

So we have. It's a very, very difficult thing to. It's a very difficult thing to do. It is.

44:33

What do we do? Do we want to vote? For America. Okay. Hold on, Busman. I know this is a big deal for you.

44:38

But look, we, this is a very difficult top. Yes, it is. It's a very difficult topic to work through.

44:46

And when you want to quantify evil, we can't do that. This is why what happens, we have to say, what are we going to do?

44:53

And how are we going to vote? It's in a large sense, lesser of two evils. What do we do if we vote for Trump?

45:00

Is it said we're voting for killing babies or we've, or are we saying we don't want the leftist commie regime in?

45:08

Which will kill everybody. I mean, what do you do? And so people are stuck with this kind of a problem.

45:16

So it's a tough one. Not really. Not really. Not really. Because. Yeah.

45:22

Yeah. Because what I think of is this is how I look at it, Matt. I look at it from an internal standpoint when

45:29

I'm standing in front of God on my judgment day. Why, Busman, did you vote for a man who allowed babies to die under his regime?

45:40

Okay. When you could have not. And take me as your king personally over your house, over the

45:48

Busman house. And I would have been your king. We can't keep going.

45:54

We can't keep going this way. There's too many variables. It's just not going to work. Okay. It's just not an easy thing.

46:00

Okay. Would you vote for King David? Well, yes.

46:06

After the first Chronicles 21 conversion where he bought the field and said, look,

46:13

I don't give it to you. Hold on. Hold on. I just asked a simple question. Would you have voted for David?

46:19

And the answer is. Yes. After the counting of the troops and after his conversion from Bathsheba's murder of Uriah, I would have.

46:30

Okay. Well, good. Because he repented, Matt, because he repented. And I don't see any repentance in Mr.

46:36

Trump. I don't. Okay. I don't see any. I don't see any

46:41

Jesus. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Why don't you gather together some documentation and send stuff to me so I can see and see what's going on, what his position actually is?

46:55

To be honest, I don't know. I would be glad to do that, Mr. Smith. I would be.

47:00

I'll have that to you tonight, sir. Sounds good. I want to see it. Absolutely. Thanks for your time, man.

47:07

I really appreciate this. All right. God bless. God bless you, sir. Okay. All right, folks.

47:13

We're about 15 seconds out from the end of the show. If you want, you have to wait until tomorrow.

47:20

These are tough topics. These are tough topics. What do we do? Our country's in very bad shape.

47:26

Who do we vote for? Because if we don't vote, well, what do we do? Good discussions.

47:32

Maybe we can have some more talk about that tomorrow night or tomorrow evening for you guys out there on the East Coast, if you want.

47:38

You can give me a call then. May the Lord bless you. Have a great evening, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. By God's grace.

47:44

God bless. Another program powered by the