January 27, 2017 Show with Diana Lynn Severance on “A Cord of Three Strands: Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters”

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January 28, 2017

DIANA LYNN SEVERANCE, author, historian, & Director of the Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University, will address: “A Cord of Three Strands: Three Centuries of CHRISTIAN LOVE LETTERS”

00:01: Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:08: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,
00:16: Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:23: Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:32: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:46: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:56: Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon
01:05: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming.
01:12: This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 27th day of January 2017 and I'm delighted to have a returning guest today who
01:26: I will introduce in a moment, but it occurred to me yesterday that after having returned from Atlanta, Georgia after being there for a week for the
01:38: G3 conference at the Georgia International Convention Center, the conference that was orchestrated by Praise Mill Baptist Church there in a suburb of Atlanta, featuring 19 speakers, including many of whom
01:57: I have interviewed on this program. I had such a blast there, but as you know, I have been raving about that week in Atlanta, which included actually a debate that Dr.
02:09: James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries had with Roman Catholic apologist Trent Horn, but when
02:16: I got back from Atlanta, I was basically primarily, if not exclusively, raving about my time there and I completely forgot to give everyone an update about my pastor's luncheon that I had the
02:31: Thursday before I left for Atlanta, and also the debate that I organized in Carlisle, Pennsylvania between Dr.
02:41: Tony Costa and Roman Catholic apologist Robert Syngenis.
02:46: I thought that both events were used powerfully for the glory of God. I was so blessed by the number of pastors that showed up at the luncheon and every one of them that spoke with me later were extremely grateful and thankful for Dr.
03:04: Tony Costa's message that he presented, and were obviously very grateful for all the free books that each of them received thanks to the very generous publishers throughout the
03:17: United States and the UK who provided us with books to give away, including the publisher that has published a couple of the books of today's guest.
03:29: But we had, as we do typically annually, nearly every single major Christian publisher in the
03:35: United States and the UK donate enough copies of a title
03:41: I've selected from each of them in order for each pastor who was there at the luncheon to walk out of there with a copy of each of the publisher's books.
03:52: So each man left there with at least 30 books, I believe, a heavy sack or a couple of heavy sacks of books.
04:00: And it was just a blessing. I really thank, again, Lorenda, the manager at the
04:07: Carlisle Vault Catering Hall where that event, where that luncheon was held. I also thank the
04:14: Carlisle Bakery for donating the cake that we had. And I thank
04:19: Chefexclusive .com for providing us that delicious meal that we all feasted upon, the chicken parmesan pasta and Caesar salad and bread, and they did a great job as well.
04:35: And of course, the Carlisle Theater is due much thanks for the, for offering us the theater for the debate that we had between Dr.
04:46: Tony Costa and Robert St. Genes the following evening. That was on the theme, Mary, Sinless Queen of Heaven or Sinners Saved by Grace.
04:54: And we are delighted that thousands of people have viewed, already viewed, the
05:00: YouTube of that debate. And we look forward to hearing about many thousands more reviewing it, and hopefully hearing about people coming to a correct biblical understanding of that wonderful historic figure known as Mary, the mother of Jesus.
05:20: And more importantly, that many come to a saving knowledge of her son, Jesus Christ, the
05:26: Savior of sinners. And we are looking forward to having debates here,
05:33: God willing, annually here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. And I ask for your prayers about that, because this is not an easy undertaking.
05:41: I only had a tiny handful of people physically helping me with all of the preparations that were required.
05:48: So it can be quite an undertaking and quite exhausting and quite expensive.
05:54: Even though there were many entities that provided their services for free, it still can be a very expensive undertaking.
06:01: So just ask for your prayers about that. And if anybody wants the link for both
06:07: Dr. Costa's speech that he gave at the pastor's luncheon and the link for the debate that was held the following evening at the
06:20: Carlisle Theater with Robert St. Genes, the Roman Catholic apologist, just email me at chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
06:27: chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And I will email you the links where you could watch both of those events for free.
06:34: Thanks to our friend David Wood, answeringmuslims .com.
06:40: David Wood, who is a world -renowned apologist himself, and he actually drove all the way from Bronx, New York, to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, to film both events, because he has a professional level of expertise with videography.
06:58: So we thank him for doing that, just because he loves Dr. Costa. He loves debates, and he loves hearing the truth proclaimed in contrast to error.
07:09: And so he had a behind -the -scenes job, unlike he typically does in front of the cameras, debating people and lecturing and speaking.
07:19: This time he was behind -the -scenes blessing to us by videotaping both events.
07:25: But anyway, we look forward to hearing from you with your requests for the links to those videos.
07:32: And without further ado, I'd like to introduce again a guest who is returning to Iron Shepherd's Iron today,
07:40: Diana Lynn Severance. She is an author, historian, and director of the
07:46: Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University. She has authored such books as Her Story, 366
07:57: Devotions from 21 Centuries of the Christian Church, and she also has written a book that we interviewed her on already,
08:06: Feminine Threads, Women in the Tapestry of Christian History. Today we are talking about another book she has written,
08:14: A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Diana Lynn Severance.
08:24: Thank you, it's a pleasure being here with you. And we already did this the last time, but we have, it appears, new listeners nearly every week, possibly every day on Iron Sharpens Iron.
08:38: And judging from the people who are emailing me and letting me know that they have discovered the program, and I was just at a
08:44: Bible conference, as I was mentioning, in Atlanta, where perhaps well over a thousand people discovered this program for the first time due to the publicity material that I made available there.
08:59: So you never know how many new listeners we have at this point. But please let our listeners know about the
09:05: Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University. The Dunham Bible Museum is a jewel.
09:12: We have a very large collection of rare Bibles and manuscripts, and they're displayed in the museum to show the history of the
09:19: Bible, how it's from its early manuscripts up to the translations into English.
09:26: We've got the first editions of all the early English Bibles and a large collection of American Bibles displayed to show the
09:34: Bible's influence and impact in American history. So it's a fascinating place to visit, and it's been an afternoon.
09:43: Great. Well, I hope that as many of you can, especially those of you who already live in the
09:52: Houston area, but those of you who want to visit there or plan on visiting or perhaps plan on moving there or know folks that do live there already and you want to let them know about this museum, go to hbu .edu
10:11: forward slash museums forward slash dunham -bible -museum.
10:16: I think that you even have an easier url, don't you? I think last time you mentioned a much... hbu .edu
10:23: slash Bible Museum. Okay, that's a much easier one to remember. hbu .edu
10:30: forward slash Bible Museum. Great. All of the people coming to Houston for the
10:36: Super Bowl are welcome to come to the Bible Museum as well. Great. Well, I hope that they do that because one is much more important than the other, and I'm not talking about the
10:47: Super Bowl, but that's a great tip. Before I even go into the book at hand,
10:57: I think it would be also good for our listeners who missed your last interview when we discussed two of your books, two of your other books, for them to hear something about the other two books that you have written, the devotional book,
11:16: Her Story, 366 Devotions from 21 Centuries of the Christian Church, and also
11:22: Feminine Threads, Women in the Tapestry of Christian History.
11:29: The Women in the Tapestry of Christian History is a narrative history of women throughout the
11:36: Christian period. So we start with the New Testament, but we go through the early church, the medieval period, the
11:43: Reformation, up to the present day. So it contextualizes what's happening, just the general history during that period, but also focuses on key women who were important in...or
11:56: not important from the world standpoint, but who contributed to the growth of Christianity during that time.
12:06: And of course, the other book, Feminine Threads, I'm sorry, the devotional, Her Story. Yes, and so there's 366 entries, so each one's very brief, that includes a history and background, and a devotional aspect of some lady in Christian history, and a
12:25: Bible verse that emphasizes that particular aspect of their lives. Great.
12:31: And I know that I do have listeners in the UK, so I urge those of you living there to go to the
12:39: Christian Focus Publications website, which is christianfocus .com, christianfocus .com,
12:47: and you can just type in Severance in the search engine, and you will come up with Diana Lynn Severance's books there.
12:56: That's S -E -V as in victory, E -R -A -N -C -E. And for those of you living in the
13:03: United States, we urge you to go to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for Diana Lynn Severance's books.
13:11: That's C -V -B -B -S .com, C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for biblebookservice .com.
13:18: In fact, they have a special feature, I understand, right now on their main website page for the book we are discussing today,
13:28: A Cord of Three Strands, and I hope that you go to that website, and whenever possible,
13:35: I hope that you patronize all of the sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron, because that's how we remain on the air when these folks keep renewing their pledges to to keep us on the air through their sponsorship.
13:51: So C -V -B -B -S .com, that's C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for biblebookservice .com is a place you could get all of Diana Lynn Severance's books.
14:02: And what was the catalyst behind writing this book about love letters?
14:09: Well, when I was in college was the first time I came across, I was a historian, so I research a lot of historical figures, and I was reading the memoirs of Maria Anna Jackson, who was the wife of Stonewall Jackson.
14:26: He was a Civil War general, and I read those letters, and I was just blown away,
14:33: I guess, by the Christian depth. I mean, everything that Jackson did, he wrote, and their affection for each other was all under God, and wanting to glorify
14:45: God in everything he did. And I thought, nobody today would write a letter like that with such
14:51: Christian depth and understanding. So that was the first one that I came across.
14:58: And then I was doing more research on something else, and came across some of the letters that John Newton had written.
15:06: And after his wife died, he actually had published the letters he had written to her as a memorial to their love and the gift that God had given them.
15:19: And again, they were just so scriptural, the way they see everything underneath a willingness and a desire to serve and worship
15:29: God. And their love was not just for themselves, but it was a love with God.
15:36: It was because of their union with Christ that their love was so strong. So that's kind of how
15:43: I got started. But even before then, way back in eighth grade,
15:50: I read a novel, Quo Vadis. And in it, I read this quote that just stood out to me.
15:59: It was the centurion writing to Petronius, and he says in his letter,
16:07: I am happy. To this you will answer my happiness, Elysium. True, my friend,
16:13: I love her immortal soul, and because we both love each other in Christ. For such love, there is no separation, no deceit, no change, no old age, no death.
16:24: For when youth and beauty pass, when our bodies wither and death comes, love will remain where the spirit remains.
16:31: Before my eyes were opened to the light, before I became a Christian, I loved Lydia. But now
16:37: I tell you, I did not love her, for it was Christ who first taught me to love, and him is the source of peace and happiness.
16:45: And so that little quote just worked in with what I read in the Jackson -Newton letters.
16:54: Well, that's a blessing to know, and most of the names that you have included in this book would be well known to the majority of our listeners anyway.
17:08: There are a couple of names that may be unfamiliar to them, and one of those unfamiliar names to many people is
17:18: Christopher Love, but it just so happens that many of my listeners have come to know who
17:25: Christopher Love is, or at least they've come to recognize his name a little bit, because I don't know if you even knew this,
17:32: Diana, but at the end of every Iron Sharpens Iron program, I quote Christopher Love.
17:37: I don't mention his name, but I am borrowing a phrase of his that actually when the first time
17:45: I heard it at a conference on the Puritans that was conducted by Don Kistler years ago, when
17:53: I first heard him say this phrase for some reason that I cannot explain but a very simple phrase that he said, quoting
18:00: Christopher Love, uncorked something in my heart and I began crying rivers of tears.
18:09: And that quote simply is, Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.
18:16: And that's how I conclude every Iron Sharpens Iron program, because that is such a precious quote to me.
18:25: But well, I don't know if you want to continue with any further description of the
18:32: Thomas and Mary Anna Jackson letter, but we could move on if you want to,
18:40: John and Margaret Winthrop, unless you have something else to say about the Jackson letter. Oh, we can go on if you like.
18:47: Sure. Well, tell us something about who John Winthrop is and his letter to Margaret. John Winthrop was the governor, the first governor of Massachusetts.
18:58: So when the Massachusetts Bay Colony was established in America in 1630, he was the governor and he was the one who organized the first great migration of the
19:09: Puritans over to America. And Margaret was his wife.
19:15: She had to stay behind, and they were separated quite a bit during their 30 years or so of marriage, because he had to very often go to London, and he was working with the
19:27: Parliament for a time, and then he was working to organize the Massachusetts Bay Colony. So he was very often away, and during their time away, their letters helped preserve a little bit of their love.
19:40: And one of the things that you find throughout Winthrop's and all of these letters, really, is the scriptural encouragement that each of them gives to each other.
19:53: And the quoting of scriptures, they're encouraging them to focus upon the Lord. They go through many heartaches and sorrows and difficulties.
20:07: They lose children and go through all those trying times, and yet they're always looking to see the
20:13: Lord is working through this in some way to bring about his greater purpose, and we must keep our eyes and focus upon him.
20:20: So Margaret, when John went to America in 1630, she had to stay in England.
20:27: She had a young child, and later when she comes over, that child dies on the way over.
20:33: But they're focused upon seeing the Lord's hand in their difficulties.
20:41: It's notable throughout. You know, it just occurred to me that the blessings that have come to us through modern technology, we sometimes wonder how we could live our daily lives without these modern gadgets and the speed with which we can contact people all over the world.
21:01: But something is definitely lost, I think. Because don't you think that even the art of writing a love letter to a spouse or a fiancé, something that should be a very common thing between two people that love each other, the art of that,
21:20: I'm assuming, has been greatly lost because of the fact that most people today are communicating by text and instant message and all that kind of thing, and they don't say anything more than a few sentences, maybe even just,
21:33: I love you and I miss you. They don't go on and on with voluminous letters where their heart is aching and they are making, basically writing poetry to the people that they love.
21:48: Isn't this sort of a dying or dead art? Or nearly dead, I should say. Definitely.
21:54: I mean, they're pouring out their souls in a beautiful way that you don't do even in an email.
22:01: We have lost that. So it's wonderful that these letters are preserved as an example of the beautiful marriages and love that they had for each other.
22:12: And also because of the speed with which we normally can return home to our loved ones in this day and age.
22:24: Of course, there are exceptions. There are people in the military and so on who don't have that luxury, but you would have people just going on a trip, like an evangelism trip, and they might not be returning home for months as a result of making a trip like that.
22:39: They could be going to India and it takes six months to get a letter. So the correspondence to try to respond to a letter every six months is going to be a little diffused.
22:54: Well, let's move on to another name that I was not familiar with,
23:00: Henry Martin Grenfell and his letter to his wife Lydia.
23:06: Actually, they were not married. Henry Martin was a missionary to India and then to Persia.
23:14: And Lydia Grenfell was the lady that he had a great affection for. And when he went to India, he wasn't sure that it was right to take her there.
23:24: It would be too difficult to move from England to India.
23:31: But when he got there, he was a chaplain with the East India Company. He found that it was very civilized and it wasn't too rough, and she would be a great asset and ministry to the natives that were there, as well as the
23:45: English. And so he proposed to her by letter from India.
23:52: And she had been engaged to a man previously that she decided to break off the engagement from because he was just of ill repute.
24:03: But she didn't feel comfortable. She didn't think it was right for her to marry someone else and she was hadn't been engaged to that man.
24:12: And not until he married, did she feel like she might be able to go ahead and get married. But so Lydia and Henry Martin never married.
24:23: He was in India, and then he went to Persia. He was one of the first to translate the Bible, the
24:28: New Testament into Persian. So it was a wonderful missionary, but their letters always focus upon, all right, what does the
24:39: Lord want us to do now? Whatever decision we're going to make, we want to make sure it's going to be to glorify
24:45: Him. And both of them have this soul connection, and they realize that they probably won't even ever see each other again.
24:57: He has tuberculosis and consumption, and eventually dies in Turkey on his way home to India, on his way home to England.
25:08: And because they know they will never see each other again on this earth, their focus on eternity is even stronger than it would normally be,
25:19: I think. But their devotion is beautiful.
25:25: Wow. And I obviously added her last name onto his name, thinking that Martin was his middle name, not having ever heard of Henry Martin before.
25:37: But that's interesting about him being the first to translate the Bible into Persian, you said? Yes, yes.
25:43: Wow. Now, do you know how differently language is today in Iran than it was in the days when it was
25:54: Persia when Henry Martin translated this Bible? No, I don't. Okay, just curious about that.
26:00: Perhaps he is well known amongst Christians in Iran today as a result of that.
26:07: Now here's a figure that most of us have heard of, Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
26:14: He was obviously a martyr in the 20th century during the reign of Adolf Hitler and the
26:23: Nazis in Germany, and was one of the courageous Lutheran ministers, or should
26:29: I just say ministers in general, although he happened to be Lutheran, who was brave enough to speak out against Hitler and actually returned to Germany from the safety of the
26:42: United States to do this, did he not? Yes, because he figured that if he needed to be in Germany when they were going through the difficulties, otherwise he would not be able to serve the
26:51: German church after the war was over. Yes, and of course there are many
26:57: Christians today of my theological persuasion, which happens to be theologically reformed or Calvinistic, who would have some objection to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's neo -orthodoxy, but you cannot help but to revere the man as a hero, being willing to die for his faith, and even be willing to die for his faith when he could have remained in relative safety elsewhere, but chose to return to a place where he was nearly certainly facing death, or at least severe punishment of some kind, and I think that people would be doing themselves a disservice if they didn't know more about the sacrifice of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
27:46: So tell us about Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Maria von Windemere. Well, if I could, you mentioned
27:54: Iran and the language there. 2017 is the 500th anniversary of the
28:02: Reformation, so we have an exhibit at the Bible Museum on Martin Luther's translation of the
28:09: Bible into German, and I didn't realize until we put this exhibit together that he was the first to translate the
28:15: Bible into a vernacular language from the Greek and Hebrew since Jerome 1 ,000 years earlier.
28:22: Yeah, I learned that from the movie about Martin Luther, actually. He is still the
28:28: German translation accepted throughout Germany today. Well, the last item in our exhibit is a photograph of a church outside of Berlin.
28:38: It has about 300 people. Most of them are Iranian refugees, and when a lot of the
28:44: Iranian refugees came to Germany, the German Christians decided, well, we need to teach them
28:50: German if they're going to live here, so they started teaching them German from Martin Luther's German Bible, and many of these had never heard anything about Christianity before, and they are coming to faith in Christ through learning their
29:07: German Bible. Amen. In fact, if you could pick up on the love letter of Dietrich or by Dietrich Bonhoeffer when we return from the break, because we're going to a break right now, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Diana Lynn Severance about her book,
29:24: A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters, something to certainly keep in mind for Valentine's Day, which is right around the corner, which is also my birthday.
29:35: I just thought I'd throw that out there. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
29:43: chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
29:49: Don't go away. We'll be right back with Diana Lynn Severance right after these messages from our sponsors.
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34:35: Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every
34:40: Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am
34:51: .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the
34:56: Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.
35:03: Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs a pastor.
35:10: Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is Diana Lynn Severance, author, historian, and director of the
35:18: Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University. Today we are addressing her book,
35:24: A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,
35:35: chrisarnzen at gmail .com. We have a listener in Indianapolis, Indiana, who is not writing a question, but really a raving commendation for you and your work.
35:51: This is Erin in Indianapolis, Indiana, who says, Hi Chris, I won her story on your program, and it is phenomenal.
35:59: I bought more as gifts from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, plus feminine threads.
36:06: If anyone is on the fence, I would encourage them to purchase them. You were right that they would make perfect gifts from husbands to wives, and for those who celebrate
36:17: Valentine's Day, just saying. Thank you for introducing me to this great author, museum, and sister in Christ, Erin from Indianapolis, Indiana, and I did not pay her to say that, nor did
36:31: Diana Severance. So I just wanted to give you that word of encouragement and also give the book the extra plug.
36:40: We have a listener from Slovenia, Joe in Slovenia, who has a question, and he says,
36:50: Please ask about Jonathan and Sarah Edwards. Are there any letters of note between them?
36:57: What was their correspondence like? Thanks for deepening our appreciation and respect for those who have gone on before us.
37:05: I don't know if you're aware of Jonathan Edwards' letters to Sarah, if any exist, but if you could respond.
37:14: Yes, I've come across one or two, but they don't have, they're not the kind of thing that have a lot of depth to them, you know, they're just quickie type letters.
37:24: Really? Love and their marriage was phenomenal, and that's definitely true, but we don't have many of their letters together.
37:34: That's interesting. Maybe they were so deep and personal that the ones that you haven't seen are hidden somewhere.
37:42: You never know. Of course, a thought occurred to me that if anyone listening wants to give this book as a
37:49: Valentine's Day gift for your fiancee or wife, you could say, Honey, I'm an ignorant, inarticulate dope, but just pretend that these letters are written to you, and hopefully that will go over well as a gift.
38:08: But let's move on. Oh, actually, no, we didn't even go to, I don't think that we mentioned yet anything specific about Dietrich Bonhoeffer's letter, have we?
38:18: Letters? No, not yet. Dietrich Bonhoeffer met the lady,
38:23: Maria Wittemeyer. Her grandmother was one of his sponsors that had financed a lot of his activities in the seminary that he was teaching in, and there was an 18 -year difference between them, and the mother of Maria was not too pleased about this spreading affection between them, but finally she realized it did seem to be of the
38:46: Lord. So they became engaged by letter, but they never met freely because he was immediately arrested.
38:59: And so all of their engagement time for about two years was while he was in prison.
39:05: And they look back at that, and in their letters they constantly realize that this is
39:10: God's providence. God is preparing us for something, and he chose this timing for us to meet and to come together so that we could support each other during this time of trial.
39:24: And they're constantly encouraging each other in that way. And of course he then was executed.
39:33: Yes, and someone else who was executed, but to this person, sadly was executed by the, at least the command of a fellow
39:44: Christian and fellow Puritan, Christopher Love I'm speaking of, was executed.
39:51: And somehow Oliver Cromwell had direct influence on that execution.
39:57: But if you could let our listeners know about Christopher and Mary Love.
40:03: And Christopher was a pastor, but he was against the, and of Puritan persuasion, but politically he was against the execution of Charles I and did not favor
40:17: Cromwell's, and he was accused of making a plot to bring
40:22: Charles II back to the throne. And other people that were involved in the plot were let go, but he was not, and he was executed.
40:32: And the letters that Mary Love writes to Christopher is just incredible.
40:39: One of the things that she says is that God has put heaven in you before he has taken you to heaven.
40:46: And she encourages him, she says, may I read a little bit of it? Oh of course, definitely read as much as you'd like.
40:55: She says, I dare not speak to you nor have a thought within my own heart of my unspeakable loss, but keep my eye fixed upon your inexpressible and inconceivable gain.
41:07: You leave but a sinful mortal wife to be everlastingly married to the
41:12: Lord of glory. You leave but children, brothers and sisters to go to the Lord Jesus, the eldest brother.
41:18: You leave friends on earth to go to the enjoyment of saints and angels and the spirits of just men made perfect in glory.
41:26: If natural affections should begin to arise, I hope that spirit of grace that is within you will quell them, knowing that all things here below are but dung and dross in comparison to those things that are above.
41:41: And she tells him that when he puts his head on the block, when you lay down your precious head to receive your father's stroke, see they, she doesn't see it as coming from the government and being executed, knowing that everything, every difficulty we go through is through the father's hand.
42:03: And she says when you receive your father's stroke, remember what you said to me, though your head is severed from your body, in a moment your soul should be united to your head, the
42:14: Lord Jesus in heaven. Though it may seem something bitter, by the hands of men we are parted a little sooner than otherwise we might have been, let us consider it is the decree and will of our father, and it will not be long before we shall enjoy one another in heaven again.
42:33: Oh praise God, that is precious, that is beautiful. And by the way,
42:40: I forgot to mention to you, Joe in Slovenia, thank you for submitting your question.
42:46: You have won a free copy of A Chord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters by our guest
42:55: Diana Lynn Severance, thanks to Christian Focus Publications. And this is going to be shipped out to you compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.
43:08: So thank you Joe in Slovenia, and I forgot to mention that earlier. We also have
43:15: Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker in Greensboro, North Carolina, and I have to enlarge his email because it's nearly microscopic, so I have to read it here.
43:30: Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker has two questions. Dear Diana, your work sounds like a great resource for Christian homeschool writing.
43:40: Do you think that the writing format would be intellectually accessible for ages 11 through 17?
43:47: That's the first of two questions that he has. I would probably be a little older, maybe 14 through 17 would be better.
43:58: Otherwise I think it would be wonderful for homeschoolers. Great, so there's nothing that would be racy or inappropriate for teenagers to read that I'm assuming.
44:10: And then he, let's see, he says my maternal grandparents are named Dunham, the upstate
44:17: New York family. The question is where does the Dunham name come from in regard to the institution?
44:25: One of our major donors is Archie Dunham. He's a former CEO of ConocoPhillips.
44:32: And that's where my name comes from. Great, well thank you Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker, and please give me your full mailing address in Greensboro, North Carolina, because you have won a copy as well of this book,
44:47: A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters. So thank you very much for submitting your question today.
44:57: Well, let's move on to another couple who corresponded with each other that you have included.
45:05: You mentioned him earlier, but obviously there is barely a Christian alive, at least in the
45:12: English -speaking world, who is not aware of John Newton, the hymn writer who penned
45:19: Amazing Grace, probably the most beloved and well -known hymn ever written, even beloved by those who are outside of the
45:28: Christian faith, merely because of the beauty of the hymn and the sentimentalism that may be involved, because it has become a part of Americana here due to the fact that many churches for centuries have included this hymn by this
45:47: British saint now in glory with Christ, quite a wicked man who was a slave trader before conversion but went through a miraculous and dramatic transformation and so on.
46:04: But tell us something about the love between John and Mary Newton's mothers were friends, and when they both had their little babies,
46:16: Mary was four years younger than John, and the mothers would talk, you know, they could grow up and marry each other, but then
46:24: John's mother died and the families just kind of separated, and he didn't see
46:31: Mary again until he was like a teenager, right before he was going to go on one of his voyages, and he was just totally smitten with her, and he went on for a few years to live a kind of a wasted life, but he always had this affection for Mary that was just unending, and he was constantly thinking of her, and so after his conversion, he mentioned that it was
47:02: Mary that kept him from totally going overboard and losing all sense, and it was
47:09: Mary that actually drew him back to the faith that his mother had actually taught him as a child, and so he was continued in the shipping business for a while, continued as a slave trader, and then they were married, and he finally does become a pastor in Olney and then in London, and their love, their commitment to each other was always so strong.
47:37: He has one very interesting long section in which he says,
47:43: I wonder why other marriages don't have the depth that ours does, and the affection, and what he decides is it's because they don't put
47:54: God first, and that sometimes in his other letters he writes, you know,
47:59: I'm sometimes afraid of idolatry, that I love you too much, and too much in place of the
48:05: Lord, and the Lord always must be first in our lives. So he thinks about this, that that's probably what's wrong with so many marriages, is that people don't put
48:14: God first, and it's kind of like at the Tower of Babel, where the people tried to construct their own building to reach
48:21: God. He says, well, people try to construct their own earthly happiness, and God's not going to let them do it.
48:28: He's going to confuse their languages so that they don't understand what they're saying to each other, and bring confusion to their marriage when they try to seek their happiness apart from him.
48:39: I thought that was kind of an analogy. Oh yeah, definitely. We do have
48:46: RJ from White Plains, New York, who wants to know what was the criteria behind those who you have included in this book?
48:57: Obviously you can't include everything you find in regard to this topic in one volume, but how did you narrow down the selection of writers to the ones you have chosen to include?
49:12: They were the ones that I had found good Christian -oriented letters of love.
49:19: They're just the ones that I had found. Now since then I have come across Philip Doddridge.
49:25: He and his wife have some beautiful letters too, so in a revised edition they ought to be included.
49:32: Yeah, just out of curiosity, do you think that you could discover enough to have a second volume?
49:39: I don't know. Now, where do you do most of your research to find these letters? In the
49:46: Rice Library. Okay, I was just curious if you ever had to actually go to some perhaps surviving relatives, especially from the more recent folks like Bonhoeffer and so on?
49:59: Bonhoeffer and Maria Whitemeyer are all in printed biographies that you can obtain.
50:05: Newton printed all the letters to his wife. You can find those in libraries. They've been microfilmed or on the major microfilm collections of the period.
50:16: Susanna Spurgeon, whom we haven't gotten to yet, but she printed some of the letters from Spurgeon, and so you can find those in printed records.
50:25: Well, let's move on to the Prince of Preachers and his beloved wife,
50:31: Susanna Spurgeon. I think you may have been the one, although I'm not certain.
50:37: Someone told me that he had a pet name for Susanna, Wifey. That's the way he most typically referred to her, but if you could tell us something about their love.
50:48: Well, when Susanna first saw Spurgeon, she was totally unimpressed.
50:54: She saw him preached. He was very countrified.
51:00: His hair was just totally unkempt, and she was not impressed.
51:07: But she became one of the congregants in his church, and he began to mentor her a little bit.
51:16: And actually, their love tended to blossom when they went to the Crystal Palace Exhibition in London.
51:25: And it's just kind of a magical moment to them. And then, of course, they became married.
51:32: And both of them throughout their lives had different physical problems, physical ailments, difficulties, and yet they were able to serve the
51:45: Lord tremendously. Spurgeon wrote a poem to her, in which he said,
51:51: Over the space which parts us, my wife, I'll cast me a bridge of song. Our hearts shall meet a joy of life
51:58: On its arch unseen but strong. As the river never forgets the sea,
52:05: But haste to the ocean's breast, My constant soul flows onward to thee,
52:10: And finds in thy love its rest. He goes on and says, All earth -born love
52:16: Must sleep in the grave, To its nature thus return. What God has kindled Shall death outraise,
52:24: And in heaven itself shall burn. Beyond and above The wedlock tie
52:29: Our union to Christ we feel. Uniting bonds which are made on high Shall hold us when earth shall reel.
52:37: Though he who chose us all worlds before Must drain in our hearts alone,
52:42: We fondly believe That we shall adore together Before his throne.
52:49: Oh, praise God, that is beautiful. I really love that. And by the way,
52:54: I believe I failed to mention also that RJ in White Plains, New York, we need your mailing address as well because you have won a cord of three strands, three centuries of Christian love letters, and we hope that you get this.
53:12: In fact, I think all of our listeners so far, except for Erin who didn't ask a question, but all of our listeners so far have been men who have responded.
53:21: Isn't that interesting? Actually, most of these letters are by men. Yes, right.
53:28: And men's letters don't survive as well. I mean, there's some of Mark Winston's letters and Mary Love's, but most of the rest are men's letters.
53:38: And you know what was fascinating to me? None of these people knew each other at all, but going through their letters, there were threads that remained throughout all of them.
53:50: All of them recognized that the love for God is the most important thing, and that their love was united together in Christ, and that was most important.
54:01: All of them looked to eternity, not for the riches or things of this world.
54:08: All of them had the other person most in their minds and concerns.
54:13: They're not selfish. They're not trying to... It's not a marriage or a love to try to satisfy my needs and desires, but it's to try to help the other person and to serve the other person.
54:25: And all of them are very humble. All of them don't think they are worthy of the other person that comes out repeatedly.
54:34: And they never tire of telling the other person they love them, just very simply.
54:40: So it's interesting to see those threads that went throughout all of the letters.
54:46: Wow, that is interesting. And I guess this... I don't want to encourage men to plagiarize, but it could be a valuable tool to help them learn the art of writing a love letter to their fiancé or spouse, couldn't it?
55:03: It could. And actually, I told you that when I read Thomas Jonathan Jackson's letters,
55:11: I thought no one today would write a letter like that with such spiritual depth. Well, my husband and my courtship was very largely through letters
55:21: I have. And he writes just like this, absolutely beautifully, consumed with the love of Christ.
55:29: It's wonderful. Praise God. Well, we are going to another break right now.
55:34: And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Diana Lynn Severance, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
55:43: chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please include at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
55:53: USA. Don't go away. We are coming right back, God willing, after these messages with Diana Lynn Severance.
56:01: And more of our discussion of her book, A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.
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01:05:31: Iron Sharpens Iron means to you. We are discussing, as I have been mentioning, for those of you who just tuned in, we have been discussing
01:05:40: A Chord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters by Diana Lynn Severance.
01:05:46: If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:05:53: And BB from Cumberland County, Pennsylvania wants to know if Diana has ever heard of the book by Susanna Spurgeon, A Cluster of Camp Fear, which she wrote after the death of Charles.
01:06:13: Yes, that's beautiful. It is beautiful. Oh, so you have heard of that. Yeah, we actually did a store, we did an interview on that with the publishers at Particular Baptist Press.
01:06:25: If anybody wants to get a hold of that book, it's a small book and it's the perfect kind of a book that you could put in your coat pocket or women can put it in their purses or pocketbooks and bring it to the hospital, bring it to the sick room of anyone who is sick, perhaps even on the verge of eternity.
01:06:45: And it was specifically written for such reasons. As I said, written not long after the passing of Charles Adams Spurgeon by his wife.
01:06:56: And that, let me see, I have the Particular Baptist website is pbpress .org
01:07:03: pb, for Particular Baptist, press .org, pbpress .org and look for A Cluster of Camp Fear, C -A -M as in Michael, P as in Peter, H -I -R -E.
01:07:16: The follow -up question that Bibi has is, do you know of other wives or loved ones of great
01:07:26: Christian heroes who have written their own books? Well, Newton published his wife's letters and Susanna published letters from Charles.
01:07:44: And the Winthrop letters have been published. I don't remember if it was his son that did that.
01:07:54: I don't remember. Well, thank you, Bibi. And you have won a free copy of A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters by Dana Lynn Severance.
01:08:05: So thank you for your contribution with your question today. We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks, would you mind reading a letter included in your book for as long as Chris will permit you to read it?
01:08:23: Because I'd love to hear some more of these letters. So you can feel free to read as long a poem as,
01:08:30: I'm not poem, but they're actually somewhat like poetry, but as long a letter as you care to read, that'd be fine.
01:08:38: I'll mention something about Susanna. She said when she published Spurgeon's letters, she tried to take the love out of them, you know, the lovey parts, because it was interwoven throughout.
01:08:54: And so it was impossible to totally not keep those in there. So you want excerpts of letters, right?
01:09:02: Well, that's what Arnie in Perry County said he'd like you to read, you know, at length, any kind of letter that you care to share that was most touching to you.
01:09:12: About a year after his marriage, John Newton wrote to Mary. And one of the reasons we have these letters, of course, is because they were separated so often by their business or affairs.
01:09:27: So other people like John and Sarah Edwards, we don't have as many letters because they were not separated those long distances that often.
01:09:37: Okay, a year after his marriage, John wrote to Mary. 1751,
01:09:44: God only knows which of us must depart first, but it is probable one must survive the knowledge of the other's death.
01:09:52: If it should be my lot, I cannot tell how I should be able to bear it.
01:09:58: But I would wish our love to be so regulated that neither of us should be rendered miserable by separation, but rather be supported by a well -grounded hope that a few more rolling years would reunite us nevermore to part.
01:10:14: In a world liable to such unexpected and unavoidable changes, there is no probability of being happy, even in enjoyment of our own wishes, unless we hold them in subordination to the will and wisdom of God, who is the author and giver of every blessing.
01:10:33: Praise God. You can feel free to share another one if you'd like. All right, this is from Thomas Jonathan Jackson to Mary Anna.
01:10:44: This is while they were engaged. He says, In my daily walks, I thank much of you.
01:10:50: I love to stroll abroad after the labors of the day are over and indulge feelings of gratitude to God for all the sources of natural beauty with which he has adorned the earth.
01:11:02: Sometimes since my morning walks were rendered very delightful by the singing of the birds, the morning caroling of the birds and their sweet notes in the evening, awaken in me devotional feelings of praise and thanksgiving, though very different in their nature.
01:11:17: In the morning, all animated nature, man excepted, appears to join in expressions of gratitude to God.
01:11:26: In the evening, all is hushing into silent slumber, and this disposes the mind to meditation.
01:11:33: And as my mind dwells on you, I love to give it a devotional turn by thinking of you as a gift from our
01:11:40: Heavenly Father, how delightful it is thus to associate every pleasure and enjoyment with God the giver.
01:11:47: Thus will he bless us and make us grow in grace, and in the knowledge of him whom to know aright is life eternal.
01:11:56: Oh, praise God. Let's see, we have
01:12:01: Robert in White Plains, New York, who says, is there a common thread of elements in these letters that stand out the most as being a blessing to you personally, as being one of the reasons that you included it in the book?
01:12:25: I think that, well, several things, but one especially, their love other is totally rooted in Jesus Christ.
01:12:35: That's where you get a cord of three strands. It wasn't just their love together, it was their love with Christ.
01:12:42: And that was the foundation of their strength and the beauty of their marriage. And do you think that it seems that these men who especially,
01:12:56: I know that this isn't exclusively men who have written in this book, but it's you said it was predominantly. Do you think that men today have a false idea of machismo and a very unbiblical caricature of manhood that they want to at least try to imitate, thinking that they will impress women, even their spouses more, and they have really tried to avoid this kind of very poetic language, thinking that it will make them appear to be too soft?
01:13:36: It seems that these men were unafraid of being very poetic and adoring of their loved ones, their spouses or fiancés.
01:13:47: Right, right. And they all saw
01:13:52: Jesus as central to their life and their love. That was important.
01:14:00: Yes, and the fact that... Do you think that this is...
01:14:07: One of the reasons that's a strong element of a relationship is because since we are all, as human, we are all sinners.
01:14:16: Right. And when you live with someone day to day and you are more knowledgeable of their failures and sins than anybody else surrounding you, you have to remember constantly the forgiveness that you have received from Christ himself.
01:14:40: And that therefore it's not a key for men and women to be more forgiving and tolerant and humble in the midst of this kind of butting of heads, if you will, between two sinners who are one flesh and very often living within the same quarters.
01:15:01: Right, right. And that none of these are trying to get self -satisfaction or gratification for themselves.
01:15:09: That's not the primary goal of their reason for living. But it's... So their idea of service to the other person also is very strong throughout their letters.
01:15:21: By the way, Robert in White Plains, New York, or Westchester County, I should say, thank you for your question.
01:15:29: You've also won a free copy of A Court of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.
01:15:34: And since you are a first -time questioner, you're also getting a free copy of the
01:15:40: New American Standard Bible, thanks to the publishers of the NASB, a really beautiful small edition of this that can fit in a coat pocket or briefcase or woman's purse, pocketbook.
01:15:55: Not so small that you can't read it, but small enough that it can be easily carried around with you in your glove compartment in your car and so on, or the glove box, as some call them.
01:16:08: And we thank the publishers of the New American Standard Bible from the depths of our hearts for being loyal sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:16:16: Ever since we went on the air for the first time in 2006, and who have been also sponsoring our debates and events going all the way back to 1996.
01:16:28: Thank you so much, Pike Lambeth and all of you who publish the New American Standard Bible.
01:16:35: So Robert, give us your mailing address and we'll get that out to you as soon as possible.
01:16:42: We have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who asks, are there any great
01:16:50: Christians whose letters you searched for thinking that you would come up with some gems, but failed to in addition to Jonathan Edwards that you already mentioned?
01:17:00: Oh, Martin Luther. He's got a few letters between him and Katie, but they don't have a lot to them.
01:17:11: Anybody else? I mean, they're nice, but they don't have the depth of expression that you find in some of these.
01:17:23: Well, thank you very much, Christopher. And you're also getting a free copy of A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.
01:17:31: And I'm really wondering, where are all the women out there that typically have chimed in during my show with questions?
01:17:40: Well, all of you guys, I hope that you make good use of these books and perhaps even give them as a
01:17:50: Valentine's Day gift. But actually, you know what I think you should do, because that's unfair to your wives.
01:17:55: You got this for free. You have to buy one of Diana's books, like this beautiful hardback,
01:18:02: Her Story, 366 Devotions from 21 Centuries of the Christian Church. That's a beautiful 200...
01:18:09: How many pages is that? It's quite a thick book. It is a beautiful hardback, really beautifully bound.
01:18:16: How many pages is that book? It has to be at least 366. Oh, that's right. Yeah, right.
01:18:23: I was looking at the wrong... I was looking at the dimensions as far as 234 by 156 millimeters, but...
01:18:31: Really pretty. Yeah, so you could go to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and purchase any of Diana's books to give as gifts.
01:18:40: But of course, we're not going to tell if you want to also give the one you want for free. Now, I'm making...
01:18:48: I'm probably revealing too much of a stereotype here when
01:18:55: I say things like that. This book is really just as much a valuable book for men as it is for women, isn't it?
01:19:01: Absolutely, it is. I have a little letter from Spurgeon that touches upon what you said about two sinners living together and everything.
01:19:11: This is written about a month before he was married in 1851. Sweet one, how
01:19:18: I love you. I long to see you, but it's only a half an hour since I left you.
01:19:24: Comfort yourself in my absence by the thought that my heart is with you. My own gracious God bless you in all things, in heart, in feeling, in life, in death, in heaven.
01:19:35: May your virtues be perfected, your prospects realized, your zeal continued, your love in him increased, and your knowledge of him rendered deeper, higher, broader.
01:19:47: May more than even my heart can wish or my hope anticipate be yours forever.
01:19:53: May we be mutual blessings. Wherein I shall err, you will pardon.
01:19:59: And wherein you may make mistakes, I will more than overlook. Yours to heaven and end in.
01:20:07: DHS. Wow, that's beautiful. That is some love that they must have had.
01:20:16: And let's see, we have, let's see here. We have Christian in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania who wants to know,
01:20:27: I'm sorry if you already mentioned this because I have tuned in late, but what is your favorite of all the letters in your book?
01:20:40: Oh dear, I think the most moving of all the letters,
01:20:46: I think it's Mary Love's letter right before her husband was executed, telling him to look to heaven.
01:20:52: And that I think is the most moving letter. Do you have a runner -up that you care to read since you already read the
01:21:00: Mary Love letter? Oh, well. Let me, while you're looking,
01:21:06: I'm going to repeat our email address. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:21:13: And please give us at least your first name, city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old
01:21:20: USA. So one of the threads running throughout all of these is the recognition that the love that they have together is a gift from God.
01:21:32: And they recognize that it's God who has really brought them together. So this is
01:21:37: Dietrich Bonhoeffer to Maria in March of 1944. When we're together later on, we'll be grateful to God for giving us this time.
01:21:49: God must love you very dearly if he visited this on you. He has deprived you of a great deal in order to give you a great deal more.
01:21:58: And he loves me too because he granted me the privilege of becoming engaged to you a year ago.
01:22:05: And he couldn't have done so at a better stage. Imagine if we'd had to live through this period, not only apart, but spiritually alone.
01:22:14: Can there be anything finer for a woman than to be close to her man and able to help him a little?
01:22:20: Our tasks here on earth are only accomplished by the amount of love we can bring to them. I will always be grateful for every scrap of love bestowed on me, and I'll pass it all on to you, my dearest Dietrich.
01:22:34: Wow, that's something. Well, we are going right now to our final break. And if you would like to join us on the air, there are a couple of people still waiting to have their questions asked and answered.
01:22:45: So we'll get to you as soon as we can after the break. But this is our final break of the day. If you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:22:55: That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And as always, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the
01:23:05: USA. Of course, we always welcome anonymous questions when they are about personal and private matters.
01:23:13: Perhaps you don't want to reveal your identity because it is something that is just too private to publicly make yourself identifiable, and we understand that.
01:23:24: But we would appreciate if you can please at least identify yourself by first name, city and state.
01:23:32: And we are going to be coming back after these messages. So don't go away.
01:23:38: We will be back, God willing, with more of A Court of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters by Diana Lynn Severance.
01:23:50: Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am
01:23:55: I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
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01:24:10: We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how
01:24:15: God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things. That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the
01:24:23: Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either. We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.
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01:30:53: That's wrbc .us. Welcome back.
01:31:01: This is Chris Arns. And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than a half hour to go is
01:31:09: Diana Lynn Severance. The topic today is A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.
01:31:17: If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Diana Lynn Severance, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:31:27: That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. And please include your first name, city, and state and country of residence.
01:31:32: Before I go to any of the listeners who have questions, I want to give you a couple of very important announcements.
01:31:41: Our friends at the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals want you to know about the
01:31:47: Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, which is going to be held in two locations.
01:31:54: It's going to be held in Byron Center, Michigan from March 24th through the 26th, and also in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania from April 28th through the 30th of this year.
01:32:14: And the theme is Reformation Recovering the
01:32:19: Essence of the Gospel. The plenary speakers include Daniel Dariani, David Filson, Kent Hughes, Richard Phillips, and Carl Truman.
01:32:29: And workshop speakers include Daniel Dariani, Richard Phillips, and Timothy Whitmer.
01:32:35: They have a pre -conference titled Martin Luther, Theologian of the Cross. David Filson will speak on that topic in Michigan, and Carl Truman of Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia will speak on that same issue in Pennsylvania at Bryn Mawr.
01:32:55: And I'm not even sure after living in Pennsylvania for going on five years now if I'm pronouncing that city correctly.
01:33:05: But if you would like more details on this conference, or in reality two conferences because they're in two different states, the website address is alliancenet .org
01:33:20: And another event that I am intending to attend,
01:33:28: God willing, you've been hearing the ads for the
01:33:33: Harvey Cedars Bible Conference in Harvey Cedars, New Jersey. Which I have had the privilege of attending, and that is a really beautiful place right on the water.
01:33:47: We urge you to try to attend their Faithful Shepherd Conference that is being held
01:33:54: May 15th through the 17th in New Jersey at the Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center.
01:34:01: And they have as speakers Amy Bird, John Nielsen, Todd Pruitt, and Carl Truman.
01:34:10: And if you would like more details on that, you also go to alliancenet .org
01:34:19: And please always make sure when you contact any of these sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron that you mention that you heard about these events through our radio broadcast,
01:34:33: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So we thank you for doing that.
01:34:39: And it's always good to hear that you have done that when you have patronized one of our sponsors.
01:34:47: It always blesses me to know from them that they have heard from you. So keep doing that.
01:34:54: And for those of you who haven't, we urge you to do that. And I hope to, just as I did in Atlanta, Georgia, I hope to meet many of you at these events, which
01:35:04: I plan to attend. And hopefully I'll meet many of you for the first time.
01:35:10: So just keep alliancenet .org handy and try to go to as many of those events that they list as possible.
01:35:19: As I said, just a few moments ago, we are discussing Diana Lynn Severance's book,
01:35:25: Accord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.
01:35:30: And we, let's see, we have, let's see,
01:35:37: I'm going to go to Bob in upstate New York, who asks a question.
01:35:44: You mentioned earlier that the women who wrote love letters are not as easy to find as the men.
01:35:54: Is there a reason for this? The only thing I could figure out is the men didn't save the letters like the women did.
01:36:02: Ha! That very well could be.
01:36:09: Yeah, that's an interesting, women being typically more sentimental and that kind of thing,
01:36:15: I guess. But who knows what kind of treasure trove we might have if you had more of the women writing letters.
01:36:26: But thank, that's a great question. and you have also won a free copy of this book that we are discussing,
01:36:35: A Court of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters, so please give us your full mailing address when you get an opportunity.
01:36:45: And the love letters that you are mentioning or that you have read from, other than the letter to Christopher Love, were there any letters that you came across that were from a spouse to another spouse to her husband or vice versa that they were when they were facing imminent death?
01:37:16: I know that Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote to his wife, I'm sorry his fiancée, but whether it was the reverse where just like with Christopher Love's wife where she was writing to him comforting him as he was facing death?
01:37:35: Not specifically death, some of them are where they're facing great sickness or have been ill for quite some time, but not death itself.
01:37:48: And were any of these that you can highlight born out of great hardship, great turmoil in life, things of that nature?
01:37:59: Absolutely. Thomas Jonathan Jackson was in the middle of the
01:38:05: Civil War and so in the middle of the battles and everything, so whether he's going to live or die, and it turns out he is killed in the middle of the war,
01:38:15: John and Margaret Winthrop are going to be separated by the Atlantic Ocean while he goes on establishes
01:38:22: Massachusetts, she's going to be staying at home with the young child. And so one of the letters that John writes to Margaret in 1630 is to prepare her for our long parting which grows very near.
01:38:37: I know not how to deal with you by arguments, for if you were as wise and patient as every woman was, yet it must needs be a great trial for you, and the greater because I am so dear to you.
01:38:49: That which I must chiefly look at in you for a ground of contentment is your godliness.
01:38:55: If now the Lord is your God, you must show it by trusting in him, resigning yourself quietly to his good pleasure.
01:39:02: If Christ is your husband, you must show what sure and sweet intercourse is between him and your soul, when it shall be no hard thing for you to part with an earthly, mortal, infirm husband for his sake.
01:39:15: The enlargement of your comfort and the communion of love and familiarity of your most holy, heavenly, and undefiled
01:39:23: Lord will recompense whatsoever want or inconvenience may come by the abundance of the other.
01:39:30: The best course is to turn all your reason and discourse into prayers, for only he can help you, who is the
01:39:37: Lord of sea and land and has sole power of life and death. Wow, praise
01:39:43: God for that. We have an anonymous listener who wants to know, you have apparently wonderful gifts from God as a woman and I was wondering what advice you could give to other women how to utilize these gifts to the benefit and enrichment of the body of Christ while keeping the balance of a woman's role in the church.
01:40:10: I'm not really sure what position you take on women's roles but I happen to be of a complementarian position and I think that all too often the really gifted women who should be more well known are hidden somewhere and then you have those on the other end of the opposite end of the spectrum who are overstepping boundaries using their gifts.
01:40:39: What is your advice to women on these issues? I'm complementarian and just use whatever doors the
01:40:50: Lord opens for you and follow his scripture in whichever direction you think you should go.
01:40:58: Perhaps you should explain the complementarian position which is in contrast to egalitarianism as it's sometimes known.
01:41:09: So egalitarians mean that men and women are totally equal in every way.
01:41:16: So there is an equality but there's a different in roles between men and women that God established at the very beginning of creation and a family for example, the father is the head of the family or the husband is the head and the wife is submissive to the husband and he provides the leadership.
01:41:37: But again it's all, as these marriages show, it's all under the Lord. So the husband is not a dictator but he is providing leadership as the
01:41:49: Lord would have him and the wife submits to him as submitting to the Lord.
01:41:55: Yes and I'm sure you would agree that even the complementarian position would say that men and women are equal but they are given different duties and roles.
01:42:08: It's not that there is any superiority involved, it's just different functions in life that we are given.
01:42:16: And it is a shame, I have met personally husbands that have squashed the spirit of their wives who have great gifts and they have really prevented them from demonstrating and using these gifts in a greater way to be seen and heard.
01:42:42: It really has broken my heart. I dare not be too descriptive of some specific examples
01:42:48: I'm talking about because people would then perhaps pick up on the identities of these people.
01:42:54: But it's just a shame that men cannot be more biblically literate to realize that just because we believe in male headship does not mean that women are not to be used for God's glory with the gifts that he himself has given them.
01:43:14: Right, absolutely. And the scripture specifically says that the husband is to dwell with the wife in knowledge with an understanding of her and to love her as Christ loved the church.
01:43:26: Well how did Christ love the church? He gave himself for her as a servant. So I need to think through those issues.
01:43:33: We do have for the first time in a while here today anyway we have a woman listener,
01:43:41: Mary in West Babylon, Long Island, New York. Mary in West Babylon, Long Island, New York wants to know who are your favorite female writers from the past and present?
01:43:57: From the past I guess one of my favorites is Anne Bradstreet. She was a Puritan poet and I like her writing a lot.
01:44:08: In the present I don't know, I read so much it's hard for me. Do you enjoy
01:44:13: Elizabeth Prentiss? I'm sorry? Do you enjoy Elizabeth Prentiss?
01:44:19: Oh yes, yes, I very much like Elizabeth Prentiss. Nineteenth -century writer and also Elizabeth Elliott, speaking of Elizabeth.
01:44:27: Elizabeth Elliott I like very very much, yes. Well thank you Mary and you have won
01:44:35: I believe the last copy that we have available of A Chord of Three Strands, three centuries of Christian love letters and by the way our anonymous listener you have won one as well,
01:44:47: I forgot to mention that to you. We just need your full name and mailing address so we can have those shipped out to you as soon as possible.
01:44:58: Before we run out of time I really want you to pick another of your favorite love letters and just read it at length before we have you toward the end of the program summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners.
01:45:12: If you could pick another love letter and I'm going to just while you look for that I'm going to repeat our email address if anyone wants to try to squeeze in a last minute question.
01:45:25: Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com
01:45:33: and please include your first name city and state and country of residence obviously as I already did if you prefer to remain anonymous for some reason we will grant your wishes in that regard but if you can let us know your first name at least in your city and state that would be great or your country of residence.
01:45:52: Have you found that that letter that you'd like to share? I do have a letter but I thought it'd be good to mention that the title for the book comes from Ecclesiastes 4 that says two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor and after it talks about two for a little bit it says if two lie down together they keep warm but how can one be warm alone and if one can overpower him who is alone two can resist him then it says a cord of three strands is not quickly torn apart so the whole theme is that this is a marriage between a man and a woman always rooted in Christ.
01:46:30: I'm actually surprised that I forgot to bring that up because that is obviously a precious text that is quoted very often at weddings especially obviously
01:46:39: Christian weddings. So I've got a little quote from Henry Martin to Lydia in 1810 he says as my affection for you has something sacred in it being founded on or at least seen in it by a union of spirit and the
01:46:56: Lord Jesus so my separation from you produces a deadness to the world at least for a time which leaves a solemn impression as I often as I think of it.
01:47:07: Add to this that I must not indulge the hope of ever seeing you again in this world. I cannot think of you without thinking also of that world we shall meet in.
01:47:18: Now praise God for that and this is the last thing that Susanna Spurgeon wrote at the end of her letters collected she says for though God has seen fit to call my beloved up to higher service he has left me the consolation of still loving him with all my heart and believing that our love shall be perfected when we meet in that blessed land where love reigns supreme and eternal.
01:47:45: Oh praise God. Well I want you to spend now a few minutes perhaps five minutes to just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today and I of course am going to make sure that I repeat all the contact information that everyone needs to not only attend and visit the museum but purchase your books and I would love for you to now you know spend about five minutes uninterrupted to really bestow upon our listeners what you most want them to remember.
01:48:24: The themes that ran throughout all these letters which was surprising since none of these people knew each other and were separated by centuries are very interesting.
01:48:35: The love for God is most important in any relationship that the love between a husband and wife is always subservient to both of their love for God and that their entire life, their entire love is centered in Jesus Christ.
01:48:53: They have a selfless love for the other person. They have a humility and feel that this special love that God has given them is a gift.
01:49:05: This is God's gift and because he has given them this special gift they need to live their lives to the utmost for his honor, for his glory.
01:49:16: Praise God. Well I know that we can, as I was saying earlier, our listeners can either purchase your books through christianfocus .com
01:49:28: directly. That's christianfocus .com and that's especially if they live in the
01:49:37: UK but they also if they live in the United States we would urge you to purchase anything that Diana has written through Cumberland Valley Bible Book Services or Bible Book Service I should say and that's
01:49:52: CVBBS .com. CV as in Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service .com
01:50:00: and as far as the museum is concerned why don't you repeat the the best website to get information on how folks can visit that museum and even support it.
01:50:15: Yes, it's www .hbu .edu backslash
01:50:22: Bible Museum. And if you could just repeat that one more time. It's www .hbu
01:50:30: .edu slash Bible Museum and if you go to the website you'll find a tour of the
01:50:38: Bible Museum. You can kind of take some of the things in our collection. There are a lot of reprints.
01:50:44: There are sections on the Bible's influence and impact in different areas of our history.
01:50:50: There's a lot of information on that website. Great. And do you have any projects you're working on in the horizon that you want to share with our listeners?
01:51:03: Any literary projects or other kinds of activities that you want them to be aware of? Speaking engagements? I am working on a book that might be another devotional book on the
01:51:16: Bible and its influence and impact in history. So I'm working on that one right now. Oh great and the publisher?
01:51:23: I don't have a publisher yet. Oh okay. Well let me put a bug in your ear for Solid Ground Christian Books who's one of our sponsors.
01:51:32: That's Solid -Ground -Books .com. Actually I have another one that I need a publisher for too.
01:51:38: I need to contact them. It's the biography of Emily Augusta Severance.
01:51:45: It was my husband's grandmother. She was a pastor's wife in Vermont and very literary.
01:51:52: And we have her diary and she describes beautifully her life as a pastor's wife and the struggles she faced as a mother.
01:52:02: The prayers she would say, Lloyd you've given me these children and I do not know what to do with them.
01:52:08: I need your strength. I need your wisdom. She has prayers like that throughout that are just beautiful.
01:52:14: So it's a little book but I need to find a publisher for that one too. Great. Well if you hold on when we go off the air
01:52:22: I'd like to put you in touch with Mike Gaydosh who is the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books and he has been a faithful supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:52:33: He's actually my very first pastor as a born -again Christian after coming out of Roman Catholicism and he has published not only great treasures and gems from church history from centuries ago but also has brought into print contemporary works by living authors including my friend
01:52:59: Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and there are a multitude of well -known
01:53:05: Christians who have lent their commendations and endorsements to his books including the aforementioned
01:53:12: Elizabeth Elliot. Before she went home to glory she had written a number of endorsements for Mike Gaydosh's works that he has published.
01:53:24: So I would love for you to speak with him. So if you can hold on after we're off the air
01:53:29: I would love for you to do that and let's see we have,
01:53:35: I'll squeeze in one more listener question. We have
01:53:41: Richard in Albuquerque, New Mexico and Richard says what is the best way to demonstrate your
01:53:54: Christian love for a woman that you're not married to yet but intend to or hope to marry without overstepping the bounds of romantic language which may be deemed inappropriate or unwelcome since you are not married.
01:54:14: Well I guess to quote a lot of scripture would probably be, yes
01:54:38: I guess there is a difference between writing to someone that already acknowledges and returns her love or his love depending upon if you're talking about a man or a woman writing the letter.
01:54:53: You know somebody who's already involved in a courtship perhaps are already engaged and between somebody who is for the first time perhaps wanting to let a person of the opposite sex know that they are interested in them in that way.
01:55:09: Do you, just out of curiosity, do you think a letter is a good way to break the ice with something like that for the first time if if a man is interested in pursuing a courtship with a woman or vice versa?
01:55:22: I think that's a wonderful way because it gives the letter writer time to really put the thoughts down properly and it also gives the reader time to consider it.
01:55:34: Yeah excellent. By the way Richard we don't have any more books to give of this title but you can obviously purchase it through Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com
01:55:47: CVBBS .com and remember not to plagiarize anything in here just gain some wisdom on how these great men of God and women have written letters and you could use it as some kind of a blueprint and inspiration of course.
01:56:05: And so give us your full mailing address because we are going to be sending you out a new
01:56:11: American Standard Bible since you're a first -time questioner. Brand new new American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the
01:56:19: NASB. Before I go off the air I just wanted to offer a prayer request for Dr.
01:56:26: Ian D. Campbell. He is hospitalized and his church and family are asking for prayer from you and for the body of Christ at large.
01:56:41: Dr. Campbell is a minister within the Free Church of Scotland and he is hospitalized and I don't know what the details are but he is critically ill in the hospital and the family is deeply conscious of the
01:56:59: God -giving inner strength and answer to the many prayers offered on their behalf which has helped them through the last few days.
01:57:08: They would ask everyone to continue to pray for them as the days go by whilst the same time respecting the family's privacy in what continues to be a time of deep distress.
01:57:19: If you want more information on this and updates go to freechurch .org
01:57:26: and the minister I am mentioning is the
01:57:32: Reverend Dr. Ian D. Campbell so we would appreciate you lifting up your prayers to the
01:57:39: Lord's throne of grace on his behalf and on behalf of the family. And we also as I mentioned ask of you to please continue to pray for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I want to repeat something that a number of you may not have heard.
01:57:59: We have some phenomenal news in regard to the recent trip to Atlanta that we went on.
01:58:07: We had an exhibitors booth there at the G3 conference in Atlanta Georgia and I thank so much to my webmaster and his wife
01:58:19: Eric Nielsen and Sandy Nielsen for not only bringing the equipment that was needed to record interviews with guests there but also enabling me free time to leave the exhibitors booth and fellowship with other folks and hear some of the speakers.
01:58:36: But we had a phenomenal development there. Grace Life Radio 90 .1
01:58:41: FM in Lake City Florida is adding Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to their daily lineup.
01:58:48: It's not going to be live on Grace Life Radio they're going to be airing the pre -recorded programs probably the next day and get a load of this we're going to be in prime morning drive time 8 to 10 a .m.
01:59:02: every day Monday through Friday and also 8 to 10 p .m. That is a phenomenal blessing and I just hope it opens up many more doors for Iron Sharpens Iron with a whole new audience from Florida and beyond because they also live -streamed so their audience is not isolated to Florida but we are glad to be on an
01:59:23: FM station for the first time having been on AM stations in the past this will be the first FM station
01:59:29: Iron Sharpens Iron will be broadcasting on. But I want to thank everybody for listening today especially those who took the time to write in questions.
01:59:36: I want to thank Diana Lynn Severance for being our guest today and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater
01:59:44: Savior than you are a sinner quoting Christopher Love the Puritan who we mentioned earlier.