January 27, 2017 Show with Diana Lynn Severance on “A Cord of Three Strands: Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Introduces Diana Lynn Severance and the Theme of Christian Love Letters

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, We are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now, here's our host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 27th day of January 2017.

And I'm delighted to have a returning guest today who I will introduce in a moment. But it occurred to me yesterday that after having returned from Atlanta, Georgia, after being there for a week for the G3 Conference at the Georgia International Convention Center, the conference that was orchestrated by Praise Mill Baptist Church there in a suburb of Atlanta featuring 19 speakers, including many of whom I have interviewed on this program.

I had such a blast there. But as you know, I have been raving about that week in Atlanta, which included, actually, a debate that Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries had with Roman Catholic apologist Trent Horn.

But when I got back from Atlanta, I was basically primarily, if not exclusively, raving about my time there, and I completely forgot to give everyone an update about my pastor's luncheon that I had the Thursday before I left for Atlanta, and also the debate that I organized in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, between Dr. Tony Costa and Roman Catholic apologist Robert Syngenis.

I thought that both events were used powerfully for the glory of God. I was so blessed by the number of pastors that showed up at the luncheon, and every one of them that spoke with me later were extremely grateful and thankful for Dr. Tony Costa's message that he presented, and were obviously very grateful for all the free books that each of them received thanks to the very generous publishers throughout the United States and the UK who provided us with books to give away, including the publisher that has published a couple of the books of today's guest.

But we had, as we do typically annually, nearly every single major Christian publisher in the United States and the UK donate enough copies of a title I've selected from each of them in order for each pastor who was there at the luncheon to walk out of there with a copy of each of the publisher's books.

So each man left there with at least 30 books, I believe, a heavy sack or a couple of heavy sacks of books. And it was just a blessing. I really thank, again, Lorenda, the manager at the Carlisle Vault Catering Hall where that luncheon was held.

I also thank the Carlisle Bakery for donating the cake that we had. And I thank Chefexclusive .com for providing us that delicious meal that we all feasted upon, the chicken parmesan pasta and Caesar salad and bread.

And they did a great job as well. And, of course, the Carlisle Theater is due much thanks for offering us the theater for the debate that we had between Dr. Tony Costa and Robert St. Janice the following evening.

That was on the theme, Mary, Sinless Queen of Heaven or Sinner Saved by Grace. And we are delighted that thousands of people have viewed, already viewed, the YouTube of that debate. And we look forward to hearing about many thousands more reviewing it and, hopefully, hearing about people coming to a correct biblical understanding of that wonderful historic figure known as Mary, the mother of Jesus.

And, more importantly, that many come to a saving knowledge of her son, Jesus Christ, the Savior of sinners. And we are looking forward to having debates here, God willing, annually here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And I ask for your prayers about that because this is not an easy undertaking. I only had a tiny handful of people physically helping me with all of the preparations that were required. So it can be quite an undertaking and quite exhausting and quite expensive, even though there were many entities that provided their services for free.

It still can be a very expensive undertaking. So just ask for your prayers about that. And if anybody wants the link for both Dr. Costa's speech that he gave at the pastor's luncheon and the link for the debate that was held the following evening at the Carlisle Theater with Robert St. Genes, the Roman Catholic apologist, just email me at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com. And I will email you the links where you can watch both of those events for free. Thanks to our friend David Wood, answeringmuslims .com. David Wood, who is a world-renowned apologist himself, and he actually drove all the way from Bronx, New York, to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, to film both events, because he has a professional level of expertise with videography.

So we thank him for doing that, just because he loves Dr. Costa, he loves debates, and he loves hearing the truth proclaimed in contrast to error. And so he had a behind-the-scenes job, unlike he typically does in front of the cameras, debating people and lecturing and speaking.

This time he was a behind-the-scenes blessing to us by videotaping both events. But anyway, we look forward to hearing from you with your requests for the links to those videos. And without further ado, I'd like to introduce again a guest who is returning to Iron Shepherds Iron today, Diana Lynn Severance.

She is an author, historian, and director of the Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University. She has authored such books as Her Story, 366 Devotions from 21 Centuries of the Christian Church, and she also has written a book that we interviewed her on already, Feminine Threads, Women in the Tapestry of Christian History.

Today we are talking about another book she has written, A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Shepherds Iron, Diana Lynn Severance.

Thank you. It's a pleasure being here with you.

And we already did this the last time, but we have, it appears, new listeners nearly every week, possibly every day, on Iron Shepherds Iron. And judging from the people who are emailing me and letting me know that they have discovered the program, and I was just at a Bible conference, as I was mentioning, in Atlanta, where perhaps well over a thousand people discovered this program for the first time due to the publicity material that I made available there.

So you never know how many new listeners we have at this point. But please let our listeners know about the Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University.

The Dunham Bible Museum is a jewel. We have a very large collection of rare Bibles and manuscripts, and they're displayed in the museum to show the history of the Bible, from its early manuscripts up to the translations into English.

We've got the first editions of all the early English Bibles. And a large collection of American Bibles displayed to show the Bible's influence and impact in American history. So it's a fascinating place to visit, and it's been an afternoon.

Great. Well, I hope that as many of you can, especially those of you who already live in the Houston area, but those of you who want to visit there or plan on visiting or perhaps plan on moving there or know folks that do live there already and you want to let them know about this museum, go to hbu .edu forward slash museums forward slash Dunham-Bible-Museum.

And I think that you even have an easier URL, don't you? I think last time you mentioned a much...

Hbu .edu slash Bible Museum.

Okay, that's a much easier one to remember. Hbu .edu forward slash. Bible Museum. Great.

All of the people coming to Houston for the Super Bowl are welcome to come to the Bible Museum as well.

Great. Well, I hope that they do that, because one is much more important than the other, and I'm not talking about the Super Bowl. But that's a great tip. Before I even go into the book at hand, I think it would be also good for our listeners who missed your last interview when we discussed two of your books, two of your other books, for them to hear something about the other two books that you have written, the devotional book, Her Story, 366 Devotions from 21 Centuries of the Christian Church, and also Feminine Threads, Women in the Tapestry of Christian History.

The Women in the Tapestry of Christian History is a narrative history of women throughout the Christian period. So we start with the New Testament, but we go through the early church, the medieval period, the Reformation, up to the present day.

So it contextualizes what's happening, just the general history during that period, but also focuses on key women who were important in, or not important from the world standpoint, but who contributed to the growth of Christianity during that time.

And, of course, the other book, Feminine Threads. I'm sorry, the devotional, Her Story. Yes.

And so there are 366 entries, so each one's very brief, that includes a history and background and a devotional aspect of some lady in Christian history, and a Bible verse that emphasizes that particular aspect of their lives.

Great. And I know that I do have listeners in the UK, so I urge those of you living there to go to the Christian Focus Publications website, which is christianfocus .com, christianfocus .com, and you can just type in Severance in the search engine and you will come up with Diana Lynn Severance's books there.

That's S-E-V as in victory, E-R-A-N-C-E. And for those of you living in the United States, we urge you to go to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for Diana Lynn Severance's books. That's C-V-B-B-S dot com, C-V for Cumberland Valley, B-B-S for Bible Book Service dot com.

In fact, they have a special feature, I understand, right now on their main website page for the book we are discussing today, A Cord of Three Strands, and I hope that you go to that website and whenever possible, I hope that you patronize all of the sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron, because that's how we remain on the air when these folks keep renewing their pledges to keep us on the air through their sponsorship.

So, C-V-B-B-S dot com, that's C-V for Cumberland Valley, B-B-S for Bible Book Service dot com is a place you can get all of Diana Lynn Severance's books. And what was the catalyst behind writing this book about love letters?

Thomas Jonathan Jackson, John Winthrop, and the Power of Letters Rooted in Christ

Well, when I was in college was the first time I came across, I was a historian, so I researched a lot of historical figures, and I was reading the memoirs of Maria Anna Jackson, who was the wife of Stonewall Jackson.

He was a Civil War general, and I read those letters and I was just blown away, I guess, by the Christian depth. I mean, everything that Jackson did, he wrote, and their affection for each other was all under God, and wanting to glorify God in everything he did.

And I thought, nobody today would write a letter like that, with such Christian depth and understanding. So that was the first one that I came across. And then I was doing more research on something else, and came across some of the letters that John Newton had written.

And after his wife died, he actually had published the letters he had written to her, as a memorial to their love and the gift that God had given them. And again, they were just so scriptural, the way they see everything underneath a willingness and a desire to serve and worship God.

And their love was not just for themselves, but it was a love with God. It was because of their union with Christ that their love was so strong. So that's kind of how I got started. But even before then, way back in eighth grade, I read a novel, Quo Vadis.

And in it, I read this quote that just stood out to me. It was the centurion writing to Petronius, and he says in his letter, I am happy. To this you will answer my happiness, Elysia. True, my friend, I love her immortal soul.

And because we both love each other in Christ, for such love there is no separation, no deceit, no change, no old age, no death. For when youth and beauty pass, when our bodies wither and death comes, love will remain, for the spirit remains.

Before my eyes were opened to the light, before I became a Christian, I loved Lydia, but now I tell you I did not love her, for it was Christ who first taught me to love, and Him is the source of peace and happiness.

And so that little quote just worked in with what I read in the Jackson-Newton letters.

Well, that's a blessing to know. Most of the names that you have included in this book would be well known to the majority of our listeners anyway. There are a couple of names that may be unfamiliar to them, and one of those unfamiliar names to many people is Christopher Love, but it just so happens that many of my listeners have come to know who Christopher Love is, or at least they've come to recognize his name a little bit, because I don't know if you even knew this, Diana, but at the end of every Iron Sharpens Iron program, I quote Christopher Love.

I don't mention his name, but I am borrowing a phrase of his that actually when the first time I heard it at a conference on the Puritans that was conducted by Don Kistler years ago, when I first heard him say this phrase for some reason that I cannot explain, but a very simple phrase that he said, quoting Christopher Love, uncorked something in my heart and I began crying rivers of tears.

And that quote simply is, Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner. And that's how I conclude every Iron Sharpens Iron program, because that is such a precious quote to me. But, well, I don't know if you want to continue with any further description of the Thomas and Mary Anna Jackson letter, but we could move on if you want to, John and Margaret Winthrop, unless you have something else to say about the Jackson letter.

We could go on if you like.

Sure. Well, tell us something about who John Winthrop is and his letter to Margaret.

John Winthrop was the governor, the first governor of Massachusetts. So when the Massachusetts Bay Colony was established in America in 1630, he was the governor, and he was the one who organized the first great migration of the Puritans over to America.

And Margaret was his wife. She had to stay behind, and they were separated quite a bit during their 30 years or so of marriage, because he had to very often go to London, and he was working with the Parliament for a time, and then he was working to organize the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

So he was very often away. And during their time away, their letters helped preserve a little bit of their love. And one of the things that you find throughout Winthrop's and all of these letters, really, is the scriptural encouragement that each of them gives to each other.

And the quoting of scriptures, they're encouraging them to focus upon the Lord. They go through many heartaches and sorrows and difficulties. They lose children and go through all those trying times, and yet they're always looking to see the Lord is working through this in some way to bring about his greater purpose, and we must keep our eyes and focus upon him.

So Margaret, when John went to America in 1630, she had to stay in England. She had a young child, and later when she comes over, that child dies on the way over. But their focus upon seeing the Lord's hand in their difficulties is notable throughout.

You know, it just occurred to me that the blessings that have come to us through modern technology, we sometimes wonder how we could live our daily lives without these modern gadgets and the speed with which we can contact people all over the world.

But something is definitely lost, I think. Because don't you think that even the art of writing a love letter to a spouse or a fiancée, something that should be a very common thing between two people that love each other, the art of that, I'm assuming, has been greatly lost because of the fact that most people today are communicating by text and instant message and all that kind of thing, and they don't say anything more than a few sentences, maybe even just, I love you and I miss you.

They don't go on and on with voluminous letters where their heart is aching and they are making, basically writing poetry to the people that they love. Isn't this sort of a dying or dead art, or nearly dead, I should say?

Definitely. I mean, they're pouring out their souls in a beautiful way that you don't do even in an email. We have lost that. So it's wonderful that these letters are preserved as an example of the beautiful marriages and love that they had for each other.

And also because of the speed with which we normally can return home to our loved ones in this day and age. Of course, there are exceptions. There are people in the military and so on who don't have that luxury.

But you would have people just going on a trip, like an evangelism trip, and they might not be returning home for months as a result of making a trip like that.

They could be going to India, and it takes six months to get a letter. So the correspondence to try to respond to a letter every six months is going to be a little diffused.

Henry Martyn, Lydia Grenfell, and Missionary Love Across Distance

Well, let's move on to another name that I was not familiar with. Henry Martin Grenfell and his letter to his wife Lydia.

Actually, they were not married.

Oh, okay.

Henry Martin was a missionary to India and then to Persia. And Lydia Grenfell was the lady that he had a great affection for. And when he went to India, he wasn't sure that it was right to take her there.

It would be too difficult to move from England to India. But when he got there, he was a chaplain with the East India Company. He found that it was very civilized and it wasn't too rough, and she would be a great asset and ministry to the natives that were there, as well as the English.

And so he proposed to her by letter from India, and she had been engaged to a man previously that she decided to break off the engagement from because he was just of ill repute. But she didn't feel comfortable.

She didn't think it was right for her to marry someone else, and she still hadn't been engaged to that man. And not until he married did she feel like she might be able to go ahead and get married. So Lydia and Henry Martin never married.

He was in India, and then he went to Persia. He was one of the first to translate the Bible, the New Testament, into Persian.

Wow.

So it was a wonderful missionary. But their letters always focused upon, all right, what does the Lord want us to do now? Whatever decision we're going to make, we want to make sure it's going to be to glorify him.

And both of them have this soul connection, and they realize that they probably won't even ever see each other again. He has tuberculosis and consumption and eventually dies in Turkey on his way home to India, on his way home to England.

And because they know they will never see each other again on this earth, their focus on eternity is even stronger than it would normally be, I think. But their devotion is beautiful.

Wow. And I obviously added her last name onto his name, thinking that Martin was his middle name, not having ever heard of Henry Martin before. But that's interesting about him being the first to translate the Bible into Persian, you said?

Yes, yes.

Wow. Now, do you know how differently language is today in Iran than it was in the days when it was Persia when Henry Martin translated this Bible?

No, I don't.

Okay. I was curious about that. Perhaps he is well-known amongst Christians in Iran today as a result of that. Now here's a figure that most of us have heard of, Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He was obviously a martyr in the 20th century during the reign of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis in Germany and was one of the courageous Lutheran ministers, or should I just say ministers in general, although he happened to be Lutheran, who was brave enough to speak out against Hitler and actually returned to Germany from the safety of the United States to do this, did he not?

Yes, because he figured that he needed to be in Germany when they were going through the difficulties, otherwise he would not be able to serve the German church after the war was over.

Yes, and of course there are many Christians today, of my theological persuasion, which happens to be theologically reformed or Calvinistic, who would have some objection to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's neo-orthodoxy, but you cannot help but to revere the man as a hero, being willing to die for his faith and even be willing to die for his faith when he could have remained in relative safety elsewhere, but chose to return to a place where he was nearly certainly facing death or at least severe punishment of some kind.

And I think that people would be doing themselves a disservice if they didn't know more about the sacrifice of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. So tell us about Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Maria von Windemere.

Well, if I could, you mentioned Iran and the language there. 2017 is the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, so we have an exhibit at the Bible Museum on Martin Luther's translation of the Bible into German, and I didn't realize until we put this exhibit together that he was the first to translate the Bible into a vernacular language, the Greek and Hebrew, since Jerome 1 ,000 years earlier.

Yeah, I learned that from the movie about Martin Luther actually.

He is still the German translation accepted throughout Germany today. Well, the last item in our exhibit is a photograph of a church outside of Berlin and has about 300 people. Most of them are Iranian refugees.

And when a lot of the Iranian refugees came to Germany, the German Christians decided, well, we need to teach them German if they're going to live here. So they started teaching them German from Martin Luther's German Bible.

And many of these had never heard anything about Christianity before, and they are coming to faith in Christ, learning their German Bible.

Amen. In fact, if you could pick up on the love letter of Dietrich or by Dietrich Bonhoeffer when we return from the break, because we're going to a break right now. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Diana Lynn Severance about her book, A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters, something to certainly keep in mind for Valentine's Day, which is right around the corner, which is also my birthday.

I just thought I'd throw that out there. Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Diana Lynn Severance right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Maria von Wedemeyer, and Love in the Midst of Imprisonment

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is Diana Lynn Severance, author, historian, and director of the Dunham Bible Museum at Houston Baptist University. Today we are addressing her book, A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com. We have a listener in Indianapolis, Indiana, who is not writing a question, but really a raving commendation for you and your work.

This is Erin in Indianapolis, Indiana, who says, Hi Chris, I won her story on your program, and it is phenomenal. I bought more as gifts from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, plus feminine threads.

If anyone is on the fence, I would encourage them to purchase them. You are right that they would make perfect gifts from husbands to wives, and for those who celebrate Valentine's Day, just saying. Thank you for introducing me to this great author, museum, and sister in Christ, Erin from Indianapolis, Indiana.

And I did not pay her to say that, nor did Diana Severance. So I just wanted to give you that word of encouragement, and also give the book the extra plug. We have a listener from Slovenia, Joe in Slovenia, who has a question, and he says, Please ask about Jonathan and Sarah Edwards.

Are there any letters of note between them? What was their correspondence like? Thanks for deepening our appreciation and respect for those who have gone on before us. I don't know if you're aware of Jonathan Edwards' letters to Sarah, if any exist, but if you could respond.

Yes, I've come across one or two, but they don't have, they're not the kind of thing that have a lot of depth to them. They're just quickie-type letters.

Really?

Love, and their marriage was phenomenal. And that's definitely true, but we don't have many of their letters together.

That's interesting. Well, maybe they were so deep and personal that the ones that you haven't seen are hidden somewhere. You never know. And of course, a thought occurred to me that if anyone listening wants to give this book as a Valentine's Day gift for your fiancée or wife, you could say, Honey, I'm an ignorant, inarticulate dope, but just pretend that these letters are written to you.

And hopefully that will go over well as a gift. But let's move on. Actually, no, we didn't even go to, I don't think that we mentioned yet anything specific about Dietrich Bonhoeffer's letter, have we?

Letters.

No, not yet. Dietrich Bonhoeffer met the lady, Maria Wittemeyer. Her grandmother was one of his sponsors that had financed a lot of his activities in the seminary that he was teaching in, and there was an 18-year difference between them.

And the mother of Maria was not too pleased about this spreading affection between them, but finally she realized it did seem to be in the Lord. So they became engaged by letter, but they never met freely because he was immediately arrested.

And so all of their engagement time for about two years was while he was in prison. And they looked back at that, and in their letters they constantly realized that this is God's providence. God is preparing us for something, and he chose this timing for us to meet and to come together so that we could support each other during this time of trial.

And they're constantly encouraging each other in that way. And of course he then was executed.

Yes, and someone else who was executed, but this person sadly was executed by at least the command of a fellow Christian and fellow Puritan, Christopher Love I'm speaking of, was executed, and somehow Oliver Cromwell had direct influence on that execution.

But if you could let our listeners know about Christopher and Mary Love.

Christopher was a pastor, but he was against, and of Puritan persuasion, but politically he was against the execution of Charles I and did not favor Cromwell, and he was accused of making a plot to bring Charles II back to the throne.

And other people that were involved in the plot were let go, but he was not, and he was executed. And the letters that Mary Love writes to Christopher is just incredible. One of the things that she says is that God has put heaven in you before he has taken you to heaven, and she encourages him.

She says, may I read a little bit of it?

Oh, of course, definitely, Mary, as much as you'd like.

She says, I dare not speak to you, nor have a thought within my own heart of my unspeakable loss, but keep my eye fixed upon your inexpressible and inconceivable gain. You leave but a sinful mortal wife to be everlastingly married to the Lord of glory.

You leave but children, brothers and sisters, to go to the Lord Jesus, the eldest brother. You leave friends on earth to go to the enjoyment of saints and angels and the spirits of just men made perfect in glory.

If natural affections should begin to arise, I hope that spirit of grace that is within you will quell them, knowing that all things here below are but dung and dross in comparison to those things that are above.

And she tells him that when he puts his head on the block, when you lay down your precious head to receive your father's stroke, she doesn't see it as coming from the government and being executed, knowing that everything, every difficulty we go through is through the father's hand.

And she says, when you receive your father's stroke, remember what you said to me, though your head is severed from your body, in a moment your soul should be united to your head, the Lord Jesus in heaven.

Though it may seem something bitter, by the hands of men we are parted a little sooner than otherwise we might have been, let us consider it is the decree and will of our father, and it will not be long before we shall enjoy one another in heaven again.

Oh, praise God, that is precious, that is beautiful. And by the way, I forgot to mention to you, Joe in Slovenia, thank you for submitting your question. You have won a free copy of A Chord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters, by our guest Diana Lynn Severance, thanks to Christian-focused publications.

And this is going to be shipped out to you, compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. So, thank you Joe in Slovenia, and I forgot to mention that earlier. We also have Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker, in Greensboro, North Carolina, and I have to enlarge his email because it's nearly microscopic, so I have to read it here.

Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker has two questions. Dear Diana, your work sounds like a great resource for Christian homeschool writing. Do you think that the writing format would be intellectually accessible for ages 11 through 17?

That's the first of two questions that he has.

I would probably be a little older, maybe 14 through 17 would be better. Otherwise, I think it would be wonderful for homeschoolers.

Great, so there's nothing that would be racy or inappropriate for teenagers to read, I'm assuming. And then he says, My maternal grandparents are named Dunham, the upstate New York family. The question is, where does the Dunham name come from in regard to the institution?

One of our major donors is Archie Dunham. He's a former CEO of ConocoPhillips. And that's where our name comes from.

Great, well thank you Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker, and please give me your full mailing address in Greensboro, North Carolina, because you have won a copy as well of this book, A Cord of Three Strands, Three Centuries of Christian Love Letters.