More on the Atonement and Calls on Today’s Dividing Line

Welcome to the dividing line on a thursday. I i feel like i'm talking like this. I feel really stuffed up today. I don't know if i sound that way but um it seems that way to me. Anyways it's a pretty nice day here in phoenix.

It's all cloudy and stuff. We've got rain coming in for tomorrow. They have the big uh phoenix open today starts today and you know the sad thing it is now called the waste management phoenix open. Has there ever been a worse sponsor name than the waste management phoenix open.

Actually i think it's rather fitting given.

The attitude that some golfers have towards uh how they do things over there because.

It is basically uh let's go get wasted and play golf. Oh okay. So how to manage. You're being wasted.

While playing golf. Yeah something like that. It's uh it's it's uh quite a a rowdy bunch. Uh i heard.

That this morning i i don't know anything about that that i i have no idea i don't. I do not watch golf do not follow golf. Uh all i heard was tiger woods is playing the first time since 2001. Yeah.

That's the reason why tiger woods has never wanted to play here and that's because he's a serious golfer and doesn't consider this a serious uh event. Really. Well hasn't. Uh. He played he did play here once.

He played here once. Yeah. And uh somebody thought it would be really funny while he's on the putting green to roll an orange across the putting green while he's trying to concentrate and putt. Really.

Yeah. Oh and uh. Yeah. For whatever reason they thought that was funny. I don't get it but.

Yeah all right. Well it's all humor. It's gonna be raining tomorrow anyways. So pretty much all day. And uh you know it happens it happens. But anyway um welcome to the dividing line. I don't know why i started there but um help me to clear my nose or something.

I don't know. Um we're gonna take some phone calls today 877 -753 -3341. Rich is. All is all shocked. In the other room do you remember how to do that. There's a there's a phone system. There's a button here somewhere.

I'm sure i've got to push it. Press buttons. That's how it works. Yeah. Good night. That's. Thanks for the warning. You didn't ask. Little heads up there. You didn't ask. You didn't ask. Did you know we used to take.

Skype calls you know we used to do that we could probably still do that but i've i'm you know me.

I'm out around toots these days and uh when i yeah you are out around toots yes i i had to keep uh bugging him to uh put some stuff up on the mrl. There's there are some items on the mrl. I'm afraid i had to put my uh my favorite travel bag back on the mrl.

Uh someone about a year and a half ago bought me the best travel bag on the planet. I mean it's just it's the right size. It's a spinner. Uh i you know i don't have people to travel with me so especially i travel overseas.

Now you've got two weeks worth of stuff. If it's during the winter it's winter stuff takes a lot of room and so you know i'm dragging all this stuff and this one was just perfect it you could put another bag on top of it.

It rolled. Well it. Well the problem with spinners is those wheels are exposed and if you ever watch uh baggage stuff you watch those things coming down. Oh wham wham. And you know eventually one of the wheels um and the wheel's been broken for about four trips.

Uh but i literally had tape on it. I taped the thing on there and i'd have to turn it one direction and but it was one of those you could you could open it up. It wasn't one of those stupid things that zips around the outside.

Those are just who designed that hit them slap them doesn't work. Um you can open it up and and snap it to the thing and it becomes a wardrobe and the stuff hangs there. And it was perfect. Um took it to south africa and kiev and all the rest of us anyway.

So i've had to put another one of those in there because i took it to be repaired and they samsonite won't repair this and they'll replace it. Okay all right. So the thing arrives. It's a two wheel not a spinner and it's about two-thirds the size.

Won't do me any good. Uh. So anyways then there's some other things we've uh we've thrown up there. So uh those are on the ministry resource list. Um don't forget your cough buttons up there too. That's yeah yeah a cough button would actually allow me to cough because see here's here's the cough button.

I hit the cough button and all it is not really much at all because it's just turning off one microphone and you can still i needed a stereo cough button and need a stereo. Finally finally found one. Cool.

Yeah. Um i don't i don't really feel like coughing much. It's it's good. So 877 -753 -3341. Um i suppose you can ask a question on twitter. Um can reform baptist hold to a presbyterian style of church government and still be baptist.

Well i don't know if that would impact being a baptist. It would impact being a reformed baptist. I would think um i'm not sure what you mean by a presbyterian style of church government. I would assume it would be.

You can't be reformed baptist if you don't hold to a baptist view of baptism. Um but hmm there is a form of church governance in uh in the 1689 uh which would not include the positive establishment of a presbyterian form of church government.

So i guess wouldn't the question be can you be a reformed baptist and have a presbyterian style. Maybe he just ran out his letters. I don't know. That's one of the problems. Twitter um but you know the answer to this is simple.

Just read my article in the five views of church government clarifies everything that may be that may be cough. Um actually there is a good debate between myself and the late robert raymond on that very subject in the five views of church government book which is available at aomin .org that's a o what store .aomin .org.

There is a link there that will get you where you're going. So anyway uh i want to start off uh with a little bit more on david allen and his position on atonement and um uh once again reiterate and while we're lining up the phone calls if you want to call in probably do about 20 minutes here maybe more we'll see.

And then we'll start taking um your phone calls and chatting with you haven't done open phones in a while. I realize it's probably not a wise day to do so because it's early in the day and it's thursday and thursday normally the afternoon and blah blah blah blah blah.

But we'll see eight seven seven seven five three three three four one on twitter uh you said in a previous jail you were hoping to come to glasgow soon. Any progress on that. No that fell through um we we wanted to uh to do a debate there but we can't find any muslims who want to debate.

But i really want to get back up to glasgow just mainly to see uh the folks there in annie's land um so i was actually thinking about contacting brother handyside and and seeing if um you know the trip to zurich in september is not all that long relatively speaking so building in a stop either on the way out of the way back in the uk is pretty easy because you're normally flying into the uk one way or the other and um so i if if we could just i was actually thinking about contacting um some of my friends in london some of my islamic friends in london and maybe maybe the only way to do it is to get some of them to go up to glasgow.

I mean it's not all that expensive i would think to get from the uk to glasgow um i mean you can take the train if you just absolutely had to um so we'll see i'd like to get back up uh to annie's land and see uh jim and chrissy handyside and uh stuff like that.

Uh jim sent me his uh autobiography and i started listening to it yesterday that's quite fascinating and uh so i'd like to like to do that. We'll see if that will if that will work out um i i mentioned on the last program that uh we are going to texas in uh may and um i i mentioned at the time the the fact that it would it would strike me that there would be a a tremendous benefit to a a dialogue a debate a biblically based um scholarly timed moderated uh debate uh between myself and david allen on the subject of the atonement and i mentioned and i oh sorry forgot again um the the fact is that the dr allen has written a commentary uh on the subject on the book of hebrews and so one of the things i think you know when people take a look for example at the big huge book on a particular redemption limited atonement came out last year uh people get lost in all of the historical discussions of who at the council of dort uh believed that the atonement was sufficient for all but efficient only for the elect.

And what about amoralism and all this kind of stuff. And you know as a result i think some people put that subject off because like well i i could never really dig through all of that there's there's too much stuff there i believe in particular redemption not because of the arguments of uh john owen or um someone like that or because i don't find uh the reasoning of uh uh of amaro or someone to be all that exciting it's it's a matter of biblical consistency it's exegesis and i was very strongly reconfirmed in my views on that subject by preaching through the book of hebrews it just seems to me that a potential atonement which is what um you know if you're saying that christ death made us save a bull then that's what we're talking about.

We're a a potential atonement if um if that's what we have um that's to me seems to really undercut the apologetic argument of the book of hebrews it just seems the book of hebrews presents such a strong compelling argument for the perfection and power of the work of christ and of christ saviorhood the perfection of christ savior.

That i just what i what i really liked. I think a lot of people would be benefited if if dr allen and i uh would get together and we would deal with that uh issue in a scholarly fashion. Now i would simply like to say if someone could speak with dr allen uh please take the time to look at some of the debates that we have done with fellow christians um look at the debate we did with bill shishko on pedo baptism we're doing another debate.

In fact the location was confirmed. But i i did. You have we put up a banner ad or i think all right we're gonna be putting up a banner ad. Um it's it's not at rts it's at a uh church in orlando. Okay church in orlando uh we have engaged in meaningful debates with muslims and roman catholics and mormons and jehovah's witnesses and atheists and and so on so forth for years and especially on a subject like this we are dealing with a topic that has such an impact upon our understanding of the gospel proclamation of the gospel that it just seems there would be such great benefit to a large number a large number of people and so i just i realize that there are probably political forces involved here that will absolutely keep it from happening i i realize that's the case.

Okay i'm.

The confirmation that we got this morning uh is that the debate will be held monday night baptism debate uh 7 p .m at your orlando grace church which is 872 maitland m-a-i-t-l-a-n-d avenue altamonte springs florida.

I gather that's close to because it's orlandograce .org is their website so it's got to be a suburb of orlando so that's um we're now working out all the details behind doing that getting the banner ad hoping to get this videoed uh and so that this.

Can get put up on youtube the whole works you know the one thing that's gonna be missing that will that will always keep it from being able to rise to the level of the shishko debate. Marcy sproul no no.

Chris arnson you don't remember the introduction to that debate with bill shishko. Um when he wanders back to the uh to the baptistry and says i wonder what.

They do back here. I i may be speaking a little bit out of school here. Yeah but it's my understanding.

That is the plan to fly chris arnson in to introduce these debates. I don't know if if strawbridge can handle that. Because uh bill shishko it takes a while to adjust to chris. Okay you know i mean um but when you first encounter chris you're just sort of wondering uh who left the door open.

Yeah you know. Who. Let someone go out wandering and and i've seen some people that are just sort of like what's going on. Who is this man. Why is he behind a microphone. Where do these people keep the loony bin.

And how did this man get out of there. And so bill shishko was well aware of what to expect and of course the moderator was even more well aware of what to expect. But someone needs to warn uh greg strawbridge because it might throw him off if they might accuse me of using chris as my secret weapon.

Yes the distract the great the grand distraction. Great distractor. Yeah. Um and uh so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well we we just need to make sure anybody in the audience who knows greg strawbridge please make sure he watches the introduction to the shishko debate.

Yes. So he has a warning if chris shows up this is likely to happen. Not the same thing but something very spontaneous spontaneously similar. Yes that's that's true. Anyway. Uh yeah that's that's great.

All right. Uh we we press on here. Uh even though i am extremely distracted today obviously uh by the fact that i am having to spend vast majority of my mental energy trying to breathe funny. Um no it's not funny not humorous at all actually.

Um what i was saying. Uh let me finish up what i was saying. Well i guess i did finish up what i was saying. And that is um especially on this subject. I really really believe that a dialogue context would greatly clarify the issues if we don't get to have debate and dialogue on this and i'm talking about between dr allen's perspective and my own.

I'm not you know i know there's all sorts of other views out there that do not represent a mainstream position but especially amongst baptists as a whole. And amongst people who believe in substitutionary atonement.

Um this is a really important issue. I thought michael and i's discussion of it was too short but was helpful in spain. Uh i would strongly recommend that dr allen take a look at that if he is concerned about uh the way in which this can be handled.

Because it was obviously done in a very collegial fashion. Um but for most people being able to see see and hear both sides being presented and then have that interaction. That's what allows that's what allows a conclusion to be drawn otherwise you're listening to their presentation.

Oh that sounds good. Then you listen the other. Oh that sounds good. If there's never any interaction um you never accomplish anything you never get anywhere. And that's what makes uh debate so good. Uh it really really does.

I'll just play one section here and then we will um we will get to our phone calls. One of the things that dr allen insists is that there has been a universal position of the church on this subject. Let's um oops blow it back down to where it's supposed to be.

And uh let's listen to this. Uh just about.

One minute segment here maybe a little longer. The historic position of christian theology. The historic position of the church up until the 17th century. The end toward the end of the 17th century. The uh or toward the end sorry toward the end of the 16th century the historic position of the church was universally that christ died for the sins of all people.

The only exception to that was a ninth century monk by the name of gotts chalk. Now he's certainly correct that gotts chalk.

Uh it was consistent with augustinianism but i'm sorry um to say that that his position is the universal position. Um and so as to create a contrast of these are the new kids on the block no one ever believed this prior to this.

Uh what about the ransom to satan theory. Uh what about abelard and anselm are you seriously suggesting that substitutionary atonement theory was the universal theory of the primitive church. Now maybe he's just limiting himself to this particular subject but it still would not be accurate no matter how you you slice it.

That is an incredibly surface level statement that the universal view was that christ died for every single human being. I'm still wondering i would still like to know does. And we had a brief discussion about this in um the chat channel uh after the last program.

But um does does dr allen believe that christ's death was substitutionary for people before the time of christ being a my assumption is he's a dispensationalist and if he is maybe he has some way of dealing with that.

But um there were a lot of different views. And the reality is the first full-length treatise on the atonement that i'm aware of that is written in the history of the christian church is by athanasius in the fourth century.

So how do you even ascertain for example what the perspective um on the specific question of the intention extent and application of the atonement is in that order would be for someone like you know whoever wrote the epistle to dionysius or or things like that how do you even know.

So how can you make the claim of a universal position in light of the fact that for many it wasn't a substitutionary penal satisfaction you had ransom to satan theories and things like that. I just don't know how you make that kind of a statement seriously in regards to church history it leaves me completely befuddled as to how you can make that argument.

Now i do not argue that my position is a majority position. I mean given how degraded the doctrine of atonement was the time of the reformation. I i don't want uh medieval romanism uh as a precursor in my belief uh because it had it had moved so far from any kind of of biblical foundation.

Especially because and i've explained this before but let me briefly mention again once you have origin once you have allegorical interpretation once you have the old testament becoming a closed book the book of hebrews which is in my understanding the fullest discussion of the intent extent and application of the atonement would likewise become a closed book.

You cannot begin to understand um what the book of hebrews is attempting to communicate if the old testament is not a book of that that's greatly familiar to you. So um there you go. I i i i don't want anyone to think that.

What i'm saying is no no no mine was the uh was the uh universal. There was no universal viewpoint. There were lots of and selman abelard demonstrated there were lots of different views as to the nature of the atonement that would impact intention extent application etc etc.

Uh so i think it's it's important to keep that uh that element in mind. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Oh so uh hey i'm in the uh the color isn't very crisp on the camera. I think it's just because i'm not very crisp on the camera.

Um probably you know i'm wearing a gray sweater and a gray shirt. And uh it's a gray day. And i'm talking slowly because i have to be able to breathe between phrases and things like that. Oh no. Thanks sam we appreciate that doing a little adjustment there little tiny little tweak the lava lamps lobbying you never use that camera.

Anyways i we should just turn that back toward you. Because you don't you never use it. Well if you turn back towards me all you see is the reflection off the window. I'm sure i'm sure there'd be a way to change that i'll hold flashlight.

Yeah thanks all. Right. Yes i did. Scott make reference to that. All right. Let's uh man i need to get teleporter working again uh because i i can no longer control stuff this is not this is not good.

All right let's uh start off uh i believe with uh andrew. And i'm hello.

Andrew once again thank you for your ministry. It's been coughing uh being having my nose completely.

Stuffed up. Is that what you mean. Yes that's exactly what i'm talking. Okay. So i think i will.

Be able to do that. Awesome. It's one to to talk to my friends and my family more often than not. Most common question is is that does that not make god the author sin. Now the most common thing that i use in a result.

We know that son of god we know that absolutely there's no question they have used and i know you said by secondary means. I was just wondering if you could expand upon that.

A little bit. Well yeah it's um obviously a very important subject and one that i've addressed many times and um i i actually did a series um i i think it was about a year and a half or two years ago uh in response to some very serious questions that were sent to me by a young man on the subject of the odyssey uh specifically the justification of god in light of the existence of evil.

And we have a number of times uh gone over uh genesis 50 isaiah 10 acts 4. Uh and i'm assuming you've you've already gone through those in the potter's freedom and things like that right. Yes.

And that clearly shows that god is in control of sin. I mean there's i mean me personally and i think many people would agree. The killing of the sinless son of god is that god is in complete.

Control of sin right. Except some people would say well that's that's how god accomplished salvation. So that's different. What you have in isaiah 10 for example um is in the judgment of israel. And yet at the same time the judging of the assyrians based upon the attitude of their heart.

So what the assyrians did god decreed to take place. In fact it was a fulfillment of his own uh promises in giving the covenant where he gave the curses and the blessings. And when he gave the curses he said if you you break my covenant these are the things are going to follow and the assyrians come and do the very things that uh god had said would follow upon the breaking of the covenant.

And yet they are then judged in light of the attitude of their heart. And so you have one action. And that action is holy and just and good in god's sight and in god's purpose. But the same time the individual acting is judged on the basis of the intention of their heart.

And so what that illustrates is that in one action you can have pure motivations on god's part. His bringing it into fruition is a part of his perfect plan and decree it's in it's in perfect harmony with his um with his will and his uh revelation at the same time um have evil intention the part of mankind um and hence the proper judgment of that person based upon their intention.

Which of course then you go back to genesis 50 becomes very personal in the example of joseph and his brothers and being sold into slavery in egypt they wanted to do worse they wanted to kill him. God restrained um their uh desire to kill him uh and yet what they did god intended for good and they intended for evil.

And so without without question those three texts do establish a biblical pattern that god has the right to judge someone or something that he has sovereignly decreed to take place based upon the intention of their heart based upon what they wanted to do.

And that god has the right to keep us from sinning as he restrained evil on the part of joseph's brothers uh he restrained the king from from taking uh sarah and and so on and so forth. So god has the right to do all of those things.

But the the real question comes down to what is the mechanism of that. Well yeah. And if and if someone wants uh an absolute mechanism for how god's decree works out in time i don't know that could understand such a mechanism if it were given to us because of the a or trans temporality of such an explanation.

We we we live we speak we think within the context of time. And as such ours is a tensed discussion. And god's actions are not to be limited to a tensed understanding um especially when we start talking about the relationship of an eternal decree and it's working out in time.

But uh what we have to affirm is that god causes all things to work together for the good of them love god them or the call according to purpose. And that he is the god um who has who is described in ephesians 1 11 as as by his predestination being behind all things.

And so people shrink back because well god is not the author of sin. Well what is what. What do you mean by author of sin. If you mean that sin comes forth from the desire and being of god that god delights in sin.

Or that god uh forces someone to sin uh against their will or desire. No of course all those things are are not the case at all. But you have to at the same time recognize how many times the bible says you know if calamity comes upon a city uh who has brought it.

But but jehovah and in isaiah you know creating darkness and light evil and good uh these things are are all there. There is a very very high view given of god's absolute sovereignty. And so unfortunately people want to prioritize these things um in such a way as to functionally eliminate one element out of fear that someone might misuse a certain truth.

Well you know i understand that i've had people say well you can't you can't teach doctrine x because someone went imbalanced on that. And therefore we we don't we can't teach that. Well i've seen people get imbalanced on every element of the doctrine the trinity.

But i can't stop teaching the the entirety of the doctrine the trinity. Um paul recognized and warned over and over against over and over again about people becoming imbalanced on grace. Shall we continue in sin.

That grace might increase. May it never be. Why is he bringing that up. Because there be some people go oh saved by grace. This is great. Let's just go do whatever. So i i i understand the the motivation the concern but our our highest standard in the creation of christian theology in the in the formulation of our understanding of christian theology not the creation of christian theology.

God did that when he wrote the scriptures. But has to be what honors the entirety of god's revelation not what is functionally best. Um for a certain situation lest someone run off and and get imbalanced or something.

I you can't you cannot order christian theology on that basis. And so when i when we speak of god's ordaining the ends and the means then we have to be very very clear that the end is exhaustive. The end is that god will be glorified in all of what takes place in creation that he has ordered all things unto his own glory and for his own purpose and ends.

And that the means that he uses um including secondary means including the restraining of the wild impulse to sin on the part of man etc etc also means that there has never been a situation where god has had to.

Force someone to commit evil god from this is kind of how i thought right. But god is not obligated i mean god anytime where we send grace since we have nothing restraining us we um simply fall.

Back into that. Well you know that that's a that's a possible mechanism. I don't i don't think. Scripture gives us a specific um formula for the mechanism that that god utilizes. I think we are given.

Guidelines that we need to make application. God is holy well doesn't it say that god gave them over to the desires of their heart and the desires of their heart are always sinful. Well that that's.

True. But that also would would mean that well when it says given over i think in those particular texts it's given over to a particular kind of sin not to all powers of sin. No one has ever been as evil as they could be.

Um i think that that's what hell is going to be. I think hell is where all restraint is taken off and the great suffering of hell is an image bearer destroying himself. That that to me is the greatest suffering of hell.

But anyway um for me the the primary concern is um there are those who will try to say that there are aspects of what takes place in time that god is not has not it's not a part of god's decree. That to me raises all sorts of questions about the origin of god's knowledge omniscience um all all all those related areas that uh become very very very problematic uh at that point.

But what we have to affirm is that in anything that god has decreed there is an ultimate purpose that resounds to his glory in the final analysis whether we know how that works at this time or not. And the idea that there are uh adiaphora that there are uh things that don't matter.

I i have a real hard time with that. Because if there are such adiaphora um then did god come to know them only after creation did god learn.

That's that's a big issue for me. Yeah. And in armenian or some other perspective. Well you.

Know what i i wouldn't put it that way for this reason uh i think that the problems facing armenian are significantly significantly more challenging. Uh because uh fundamentally you you know if you just take a simple foreknowledge view where god gains knowledge how he gains knowledge why he created if he knew the future.

That's why i've said over and over again what's the only consistent armenian. An open theist. Um so those who are not open theists have i think absolutely insuperable um objections because they have to explain how god knowing what was going to happen created the way he did without a specific purpose in the individual.

Events of sin and evil and uh that's that's pretty tough to deal with. Well um dr white i really appreciate your time. Um thank you very much appreciate. Bye andrew. Oh i really need to get.

Teleport working. I'm gonna jump down to wendy real quick and then we'll come back to justin.

Okay uh. Hi wendy how you doing. Hi dr. Right i'm doing good. How are you. Well i've been better but we're we're fighting through. Okay just wanted to real quick thank you again. I've been listening to you for another year and i've learned a lot and will continue to.

And i pray for your health. And when you travel and i listened to you last week on wretched with mr todd for you. And i admire how your church um comes together quietly before service is a time of meditation.

I don't see much churches doing that anymore and i really admire that. And it's all it gives more reverence and respect i would say. And um i just wanted to say thank you sir. Yeah we mentioned that on the program.

And um i i've i've no one including todd freel has any earthly idea why we end up discussing the things that we do. Um and and it was it was painfully obvious uh from the start that he wanted to get to certain topics and then just in the way he introduced me at the beginning it was like uh squirrel and off he goes and uh we'd spend 15 minutes and never get back.

So that's just um that's just todd freel he's um he's fascinating uh. And i i mentioned on tuesday that i was really hoping uh to get to attend his sunday school class because my daughter is in his sunday school class.

And so i i preached at the church. Well i spoke at the church uh sunday morning and then my plan was to plot myself down right in the front row and just sit there with a very smug look on my face and see if there'd be any way i could completely throw freel off his game as he tried to teach.

But as i mentioned four more missionaries walked in right as the service started. And so as soon as service is over i made a beeline for the missionaries and so i i never got to attend freel's class which i think he was very very happy about.

In fact i would not put it past him uh that he maybe even called the missionaries you know called called the old district. Hey could you send some missionaries over to my church. I i could use their their assist.

Maybe that's how it.

Happened i don't know. Probably. Yep possible. Yeah it does again. I just wanted to say thank you sir. You've been a blessing to my family. And um i uh i just want to say thank you sir. Okay. Well i.

Appreciate it wendy. Thank you very much. Thanks for your call. Oh where are you in florida. Um i'm.

Jacksonville i think um we when we have moved. Last time i called you last year i was in pennsylvania. I moved to jacksonville and i think uh my pastor. But i've looked at when i was looking at churches.

The first church i clicked on when i clicked on his website. After one whole year of listening to you dr white the first thing i saw on his website was a omen ministry. And that's yeah.

Well i'm not you know i don't know my florida uh geography all that well but in uh march i'm going to be in pensacola and orlando. So we're doing we're doing uh.

One one or two debates in pensacola. Two you'll be doing a islam debate um i believe at rts uh friday night the 21st yeah and then 23rd you'll be doing the debate we mentioned earlier.

That's in orlando. In orlando. Yes. How am i gonna get from the one to the other. That's a long ways.

Uh all i know is the folks there are going to make it happen and uh in between uh the following three days they're going to be running you all over the place and then on wednesday you're supposed.

To be coming to our church if i'm. Well from what i heard. Uh it's sovereign grace family church.

The pastor dr keith bosky i hope you're able to come. I believe i remember seeing that on the list.

Okay well something tells me i think we're doing a lot of driving. Something tells me we're doing a.

Lot of driving. Yeah they'll be doing. They'll be running around a bit. Yes do you go. Uh near um.

Other places in georgia because next month we're moving to moody airport space. My husband oh he's um yeah he would move a lot like every year. No i i i have to stay within range of coming.

Georgia that's where my uh my son-in-law daughter and granddaughter lives so it has to be within driving distance of coming or i can't go there because then i don't get to see clementine. So oh yeah i'm being facetious but uh yeah that's what that's what that was our our focus this last time.