More Comes Out on Iryna Zarutska, Are Evangelical Leaders Complicit?

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We gather as a school and as a church to celebrate Black History Month. It is right, Black History Month, for us to think biblically.

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We need to think clearly on how the gospel comes to bear on all of life, especially racial reconciliation.

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Today, as a school, we are very fortunate and blessed to have a New Testament theology expert, a

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Pauline scholar, a leading thinker, an advocate that is pressing the true church, the real church, toward racial reconciliation.

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It is an honor to have such a well -known, impactful thinker here at Hickory Grove. And not just professionally, let me just speak personally as a man.

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Dr. Jarvis Williams wrote a book called Removing the Stain of Racism from the

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Southern Baptist Convention. I've read it. Our staff has read it.

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It was one of those books that turns the light on for you to think differently.

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And so, just as a Christian man, I am indebted to Dr. Jarvis Williams, and we as a school are very fortunate to have him.

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So would you make Dr. Jarvis Williams feel welcome as he comes to lead us today? Dr. Williams?

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We have a Bible this morning. Part of our theological makeup, one of the things we understand as a core of our theology is that we come into this world with a sinful nature.

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We are born sinners. And it stands to reason that if we are born sinners, we are born racist.

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Well, there you have it. That is the president of the Southern Baptist Convention a few years ago, talking about how we're just all born racist because that's what original sin means.

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That's what that doctrine actually teaches. Everyone's a racist. Everyone's guilty, I guess, of every kind of sin, even culturally contextual sins that you won't actually find in the

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Bible necessarily, depending on how you define them, maybe you will. But they're a little, let's say, open to interpretation.

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But let's just say you have it. You're guilty of it because you are a sinner.

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You have original sin, a tendency to sin. And that makes you a quote unquote racist. I wonder if it makes you other things, too.

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Does it make you a, I don't know, homosexual? Are you a homosexual just because you have original sin?

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Like where where's the line start and end on this kind of thing? It makes you wonder, right? And this was the narrative that I've been fighting forever on this podcast since at least

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January 2019. And before that, I've written blogs as early as, I think, 2014, specifically targeted at Southern Baptist, who we're going to be talking about today.

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And here's the president of the Southern Baptist Convention parroting the narrative. Now, at the time,

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I wasn't paying much attention to Clint Presley. He wasn't the president of the Southern Baptist Convention at the time he made these remarks.

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And, you know, he's a prominent pastor, but not prominent enough to really get on my radar. But I think it's important to think about this now because he's a prominent pastor in a certain city in the

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United States. And that city happens to be Charlotte, North Carolina. That's right. The president of the Southern Baptist Convention is a native and a preacher in the city of Charlotte, North Carolina, where the stabbing occurred and that everyone's talking about right now.

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And I think it's just rich for him to say this, of course, we're going to get into a little bit of the policies that led to what happened today.

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We're going to talk about the video and more that's coming out about what actually happened on that light rail, because more is coming out and I think more will probably still be coming out.

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But there is a lot since I even put the podcast out last night that has come out in the last few hours that I just thought, you know,

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I'm going to do another podcast. And one of the main things I think this is what tipped the scales. I've done a lot of podcasts this week, but it just made me think

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I've got to talk about this is the fact that the voice you just heard is busy posting. That's right.

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Posting about this particular incident. And I will show that to you.

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Here is Clint Presley. Here's his ex profile. And he posted absolute, unmitigated, preventable tragedy.

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Lord have mercy. It's just it's a it's a tragedy. And he posted this. When was this? September 9th. So it was last night or last actually morning of yesterday when he posted this.

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Since then, he's posted more. Seven hours ago, I stand with Albert Moeller in his column. We'll talk about Albert Moeller in a moment.

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Their grotesque murder of and by the way, before I pronounce this name, I should probably look it up.

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I noticed someone said in my email inbox that I'm getting this Ukrainian name wrong. It's actually Irina Irina.

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So I'm going to try my best to pronounce the name correctly. I did that wrong in the last two podcasts.

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I'm not from Ukraine, though, but it's Irina. So I stand with Albert Moeller. This grotesque murder of Irina Zarutska exposes the failure of progressivism to protect our people and our cities.

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OK, I mean, fair enough. He also reposted this from Katie J. McCoy. This is interesting.

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I want to analyze this a little bit. He retweeted it. Go read the end of Judges, she says. When the narrator wanted to convey how corrupt the nations have become, what did he record?

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He told the story of an isolated, vulnerable woman subjected to heinous violence and abandoned by those who might have helped.

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That was the index for how godless the nation had become. It was a cultural tipping point, a national reckoning that enraged the whole country.

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Yet the nation continued to spiral because everyone did what was right in their own eyes. Well, it's interesting that this post has gotten traction because I noticed.

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Let's see if it's gotten more traction. We're going to be doing this live here today. If you go to the post engagements and you look at some of the quote tweets, oh,

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J .D. Greer reposted this interesting former president of the Southern Baptist Convention. It's almost like there was a group chat and the

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Southern Baptist got wind of it. You have a number of others. I don't recognize all these names. I do recognize

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Griffin Goolidge, who also reposted it. He's kind of behind a lot of the Me Too stuff in the Southern Baptist Convention.

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Big supporter of Hannah Kate, or if you remember that from years ago. I don't recognize anyone else, but I thought maybe there'd be more.

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So anyway, you got two presidents of the Southern Baptist Convention retweeting this particular tweet. And what I notice about this tweet.

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Is that is very different from the George Floyd tweets. And the George Floyd was a criminal. He had a long rap sheet.

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We know now from the biopsy or the the the court case and their documentation of what actually happened in the autopsy that he died because of a fentanyl overdose.

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And but of course, at the time when this all went down, the Southern Baptists were up in arms about it.

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I mean, it didn't take long for them to start promoting the BLM narrative. And if you notice, that particular narrative is very different than this particular narrative, because in this narrative, what's the problem?

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Who's the problem? Where where's the sin located? Well, it's it's the whole nation, right? It's everyone. It's everyone.

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There's a national reckoning because I guess we as a country and in what way, though, in what way we as a country is

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I mean, it wasn't me. Who was it then? Who was it that promoted the policies that led to this particular incident?

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If it's such a national thing, if ever is there going to be corporate repentance? We had to do that for George Floyd. Right. Everyone was guilty of racism because that was original sin.

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So we all had to go do a corporate repentance thing. We had to go to church and go through some of these ridiculous laments.

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We had to take responsibility, especially if you were white and had privilege. It was your fault that George Floyd died.

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It was your fault, all the police shootings. But now when we have this particular incident for Iran, Irina, it means that everyone's just kind of equally guilty.

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And there's a national reckoning. It's not particular to one group over another, where George Floyd's was more particular to one group.

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This we don't have that. It's just general depravity. And I mean, I can agree with this to an extent.

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Right. There is a general coarsening of society. There's a general dislike and just disdain,

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I would say, lack of trust, lack of valuation for human life.

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I can see all that. I understand there's a selfishness that's grown. I'm not saying that this is wrong. I'm just saying it's a different narrative.

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And this is who two presidents, one former, one current of the SBC, decided to retweet

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Clint Presley, also retweeted Andrew Walker on this. So he's posted a number of things.

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Also, Joe Rigney on this, a number of things that he's signaling he's against this kind of thing.

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But you don't see the racially charged stuff, right, that we did with George Floyd. We don't see the kind of things that Clint Presley was saying in the wake of that particular issue.

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And I'd like to ask why. Why is it? Why is it that if you go to this tweet

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I posted underneath it, another screenshot, this is from Clint Presley, and it goes back farther. I mean, this is a while ago, right?

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And I understand people change their mind. This is over 10 years ago. This is December of 2014. And it's reacting to the

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Christian Post. The Christian Post had made a post that said Southern Baptist pastor chides evangelicals for promoting racial justice as a gospel demand.

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And Clint Presley responded to this by saying that SBC pastor doesn't represent the rest of us.

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Oh, interesting. OK, so that SBC pastor is wrong. Thankful for Matt Hall, Mr. Matt Hall, I'm a racist.

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Remember the critical race theory advocate at Southern Seminary who was kind of like Al Mohler's right hand man.

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And then Dr. Russell Moore, another guy who was kind of like Al Mohler's right hand man there at Southern Seminary, who's now the chief editor at Christianity Today.

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And this is what Clint Presley follows it up with. It is a gospel issue. So it's a gospel issue, apparently racial justice.

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So I'm just confused. Racial justice is a gospel issue. Everyone's a racist because of original sin.

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We Jarvis Williams, who promoted critical race theory at Southern Seminary again, right under Al Mohler, one of Al Mohler's hires there.

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He's just a great Pauline scholar. You need to be exposed to him. We've all read his book. We we really just appreciate him.

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And racial justice is this really important thing, which we all know from the context of the time means eliminating disparities, economic disparities, disparities and how police treat members of other races when they commit crimes.

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Allegedly, we need to do something about all this. And if we don't, we're being we're failures. We're not living up to the gospel.

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We're not living up to Christian teaching. We're not taking justice seriously. You remember all of this. Has Clint Presley said anything, anything to back off of any of that?

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Has he repented? Has he even taken responsibility publicly for the things he said in Charlotte, North Carolina?

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Mind you, not that I'm aware of. I've asked people who live in Charlotte, people who know

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Clint Presley, is there anything to indicate that he's backed off this stuff, that he publicly repudiates it?

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No. No. He's just the president of the Southern Baptist Convention now, and he's very sad about this recent killing.

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Well, this particular murder could have been avoided and it could have been avoided if some basic policies were still in place, some policies that Clint Presley and many other

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Southern Baptists were complicit in eradicating with their narrative, with their social justice, woke, whatever you want to call it, narrative that sought to change policing, to change how we think about justice by reframing justice as the elimination of disparities.

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That's what justice is really all about. Social disparities. Well, the

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Trump administration put this out on September 8th. This is from the White House. I thought this was interesting.

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I didn't catch this before. But Charlotte murder exposes Democrat failures after career criminal freed by woke policies.

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Well, let's read what this says. Horrifying video released on Friday shows the moment we're going to get to that video that an innocent woman was brutally murdered on a train in Charlotte, North Carolina.

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A shocking act of evil. The deranged monster, according to this article, was to Carlos Brown. He's 34.

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He had been arrested again and again for violent crime spanning more than a decade. Despite that lengthy rap sheet, mental health issues and forfeiting bond on three occasions, a

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Democrat judge released him back on the streets following his most recent arrest in January, free to slaughter an innocent woman.

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Just months later, that has become the Norman Democrat run cities where radical left policies like no cash bail and defund the police put depraved career criminals back on the streets, free to continue raping, pillaging and killing their way around through their nation.

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It's a culmination of North Carolina's Democrat politicians, prosecutors and judges prioritizing woke agendas.

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OK, so what specifically? Let's give what are the details, John? Here are the details. In 2020, the Charlotte City Council, Charlotte, where Clint Presley is a pastor, mind you, launched an initiative to reimagine policing, which included diverting 911 calls away from the police department in 2020.

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Oh, this is kind of interesting. The year this is happening on 2020. Then Governor Roy Cooper established a task force for racial equity and criminal justice, co -chaired by then

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Attorney General and current Governor Josh Stein, which recommended reimagining, reimagining that public safety to promote diversion and other alternatives to arrest, deemphasize some felony crimes, prioritize restorative justice, eliminate cash bail for many crimes.

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Oh, it sounds so nice. Except when a woman is dying in a pool of blood, it's not so nice, is it? Over the last seven years,

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Mecklenburg County Criminal Justice Services has received millions of dollars from a foundation that advocates for no cash bail and decreasing jail populations to address inequities.

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Mecklenburg County hired equity and inclusion consultants to address racial disparities at all levels of the justice system.

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And its Office of Equity and Inclusion lists reducing racial disparities and disproportionately within the criminal justice system as among its goals.

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In 2020, there's that interesting year again. 2020, a Democrat state Senator Mujtaba Mohammed, who represents

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Charlotte, declared independence from rogue police. And as President Donald Trump said, there are evil people.

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We have to be able to handle that. If we don't handle that, we don't have a country. Kind of simple stuff coming from our president. And I would agree we do have evil people and we should handle it.

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But there were a group of people that just seemed like they didn't want to handle it. They seemed like they were all for the kinds of quote unquote reforms that led to what we have.

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And I talked yesterday about this particular judge that decided to let DeCarlos Brown walk and was gave him a slap on the wrist.

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She should be part of this. Right. She hasn't even passed the bar. It's just insane the conditions that people in Charlotte are living under.

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But some of those conditions changed quite a bit in 2020. And so Clint Presley doesn't talk about that, doesn't talk about what the road that led us to this, which

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I find interesting. Now, there was mention mentioned in that about a certain foundation.

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I'm just going to bring this to you. Find it a little interesting. Irina Zarutska's killing.

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Was this murder funded? Three point three million grant from left wing NGO MacArthur Foundation fuels speculations.

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OK, it's speculations, but I mean, we were allowed to speculate with George Floyd. Right. We were allowed to think that Derek Chauvin was just a racist and that's why he targeted

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George Floyd. So, I mean, I think a little speculation isn't that permissible? I think a little speculation is

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OK. Here's some speculation. Irina Zarutska's brutal killing has sparked a fresh controversy about the

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MacArthur Foundation and a three point three million grant aimed at reducing jail populations.

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That's interesting. It says that her brutal killing has left the world in shock amid the growing outrage over the killing of a young woman in the train.

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Social media is ablaze with posts. We know this as speculation intensifies. Many are demanding accountability.

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One widely shared post on X read. And there you have it. Three point three million from left wing NGO. The MacArthur Foundation went to Mecklenburg County to reduce the jail population, the very county that released career criminal to Carlos Brown 14 times.

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Insane. Follow the money. Democrats want criminals on the loose. Well, I don't know. I mean, it could be it may not be, but we're allowed to speculate.

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Right. Speculation was what you had people like Clint Presley and Al Mohler and J .D. Greer operating off of.

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I think it's OK. We speculate. And here's a primary source here. This is where is this from?

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This is a screenshot, I guess, from an official document of Mecklenburg County claiming that they received this grant and that this brings a total investment from the

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MacArthur Foundation of three point three million to continue safely reducing the jail population. Yes, safely. There's all the mugshots of the

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Carlos Brown. That's a lot of mugshots. You think it's enough to say maybe this guy shouldn't be on the street.

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I don't know. Call me crazy. Maybe he just shouldn't be out there. But he was out there. And it's not safe to now go in public transportation.

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Many people feel that way because of this particular incident. But here's the thing.

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It wasn't just the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention, was it? No, it wasn't.

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It was many more. It's going to take everything we've got in the gospel and in the scriptures to escape the trap of history.

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But we're not we can't just draw a line. We're going to have to deal it. We're going to confront it. We're going to have to recognize the word stain is exactly the right word.

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It's a stain that we're going to carry as a denomination forever till Jesus comes.

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I can't associate with any assertion that we do not have a massive problem.

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In the society and in the church with claims of racial superiority and with historic patterns of claims of white racial superiority.

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I love the people, respect the people who brought the resolution. I would not have brought the resolution if it were it were me.

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And and there's just some language in it that some of it's so good, but some of it is it's so easily taken.

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Well, it's just confusing. So I just I'll try to say that.

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But behind it, behind the resolution, I'm convinced was an effort to try to speak to the real problem of the sin of racism in the

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United States and in every structure in the United States. In every structure of the

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United States, I guess that would be police, right? Every structure, there's just racism in the police departments. This is a problem.

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I'm glad Resolution nine, which endorsed critical race theory as an analytical tool, at least got that right, according to Dr.

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Moeller, that look, there's racism just permeates every institution. And Dr. Moeller, to his credit today, decided that he would make a post as well about this.

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And here's the post. It is a column he wrote for. Was it World's World Magazine?

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And it says brutal murder in Charlotte becomes a national flashpoint response to release of security video shows deep division between liberals and conservatives.

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And then he goes on about the soft on crime policies of the Democrats. Well, good for him. But this was the same guy that promoted the

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BLM narrative. And you say, well, John, how do you I mean, I get it. But what about I mean, did he did he come out and say

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BLM is right or anything like that? Well, he did like this post from 2020. The phrase be

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Black Lives Matter predates the organization. I guess most people don't even know the organization exists. You all are getting hung up on a red herring in this country at this time.

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All people of goodwill should agree with the simple premise that and it's capital letters,

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Black Lives Matter, capital letters, B, L and M. You also have this

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Al Moeller signed this along with the other 70 presidents like Danny Akin and others breaking

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Southern Baptist Convention leaders release statement on the death of George Floyd. I was glad to join in this statement. And if you look at the statement, they do blame racism.

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So, yes, Al Moeller did endorse the BLM narrative. And it's just simple to me.

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Like, why don't you come out and say I was wrong for all that? I'm sorry that I got that wrong.

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But has he? No, he has not. Neither has Clint Presley, neither has

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J .D. Greer, neither have a lot of people. And the Southern Baptists are not the only denomination, but they're the ones

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I focused on the most. So I know the most about them and the you can hear a pin drop. If you if I was in a room with all these guys and I would ask, all right, have any of you made any public statements as public as you were supporting the

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BLM narrative? Have any of you been as public with repudiating that support? And you would hear a pin drop because they haven't.

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If either they haven't weighed in on this, which many have and I just checked. And you don't have people like Matt Chandler or who else did

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I check? David Platt. Maybe they will weigh in, but they haven't weighed in yet. And others who have promoted this narrative of BLM, they have not weighed in.

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But the few who have aren't making the statements that should accompany their shock, horror and outrage that also say, yeah, we were complicit in the whole push to, quote unquote, reform the the laws and the police departments and everything else that has that were gates that kept people like to Carlos Brown from murdering people like Arena.

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So I just think this is a little rich. And of course, it wasn't just Al Mohler.

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It was others as well. Prince's lead, says Deborah. People praise the Lord. But when the princes abdicate their duties, the people suffer.

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We got plenty of dudes and bros in the church just hanging around, what we need are more men.

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It's like Kevin Young says, the most important exhortation and complimentarianism is not for women to sit down.

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It is for men to stand up, which leads us to our third observation from the story. Number three, God curses spectators.

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As Deborah sings out the victories of God's people, she says, coming to a crescendo in verse twenty three, curse morose, said the angel, the

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Lord curse its people bitterly because they did not come to help the Lord to help the Lord against the mighty cursed.

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It doesn't say they did anything bad, does it? It doesn't say this tribe hung back and smoked weed and raided everybody else's tents while they were out fighting.

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I just said they did nothing. Morose represents those people of God who fail to act when it's not their land that's threatened to do the geography.

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It's less than here. Morose is not affecting us. These enemies ain't coming after us, so we're going to hang back.

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Now, I want to turn more specifically to some of these issues of justice, whether we're talking about racial justice or gender justice or what have you.

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Tragically, when it comes to many issues of justice, there's often been a malaise in the church, not using the kindest word possible.

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In large part because the injustice did not directly affect those of us sitting in places of privilege like Morose, it didn't affect our tribe.

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We didn't think it affected our tribe, the church in the West and various generations has been slow, far too slow.

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To champion the dignity and equality of really anybody was outside of their circle. And some of us ask, we look back with genuine bewilderment and we say, how could some of these great theologians, how could some of our ancestors have either gone along with slavery someplace, even defending it at the very least, just not really seeming to care about it that much?

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How could a large majority of conservative Bible believing Christians have just sat on the sidelines during the civil rights?

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And for the most part, I think you've got to conclude that it just they felt like it didn't directly affect them, at least in the short run.

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So they didn't think that much about it. Like Dan, they sat back by the shifts when they ought to been out in the fight.

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We have to be clear, the scripture says this not getting involved on behalf of others is a matter in God's eyes of justice, bearing the burden of our brothers and sisters in God's kingdom.

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Even when we think, especially when we think that what is happening doesn't directly affects us as a matter of justice.

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I'm going to stop it right there because I can't take any more. What you're hearing from J .D. Greer is speculating and questioning the motives of our forefathers in the faith, why they didn't do enough in his mind to oppose slavery or get involved in the civil rights movement.

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And I've talked about this ad nauseum on the podcast. There's multiple reasons for these things, but history is complex and there's converging elements.

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And there's I'll just name a few of them. Let's talk about civil rights for a moment. This wasn't something that affected the entire country.

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This was also something that wasn't the highest priority for everyone. In fact, if you look at polling from the time, people were much more concerned about the

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Soviets and some of them suspected that the Soviets were intentionally trying to stir up trouble using the civil rights movement to foment a possible race war.

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And guess what? They were right. The Soviets were involved in trying to do that very kind of thing, to use it as a wedge.

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Some of them also thought the cure would be worse than the disease, that this would be something that would end up causing problems.

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And it has caused problems. It has caused the kind of white flight, as they call it, the kinds of lack of discipline and lower standards, the forced integration and more than forced integration.

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It's the civil rights, all the other civil rights policies, the Great Society policies, the affirmative action policies, all of these things on top of each other to try to promote social equality have done a number on our country.

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There's many reasons and maybe they were smarter than J .D. Greer when they were looking forward. Maybe some of them knew what was going to happen.

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Maybe they didn't have these bad motivations and there's more that could be said. But I'll say this, if J .D.

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Greer wants to be consistent and while we just have to bear one another's burdens, we have to get involved in these things. Then what he needs to do is look at this latest case.

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Why isn't he talking about this particular murder? Why isn't he repudiating to Carlos Brown?

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Why isn't he saying that we have a justice issue here? It's a gospel issue, right? I thought Black Lives Matter was a gospel issue.

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We're going to play some more from J .D. Greer, but I need to take a break and I need to show you this because people are flooding the stream with comments about it.

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Charlie Kirk was just shot at a Utah event and I don't know what the latest is on this.

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In fact, I'll refresh it because I'm sure more is coming out. Charlie Kirk was shot at an event in Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah on Wednesday bystanders report seeing

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Kirk shot near his neck. No, that's not good. During a Q &A with students, a suspect is in custody, according to UVA Alert sent to students.

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The campus is on lockdown. That's all we know. You know, I thought about this just the other day that Charlie Kirk is incredibly brave to have the profile he has and to go to these events in the open air where you have people that hate him.

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I man, let's let's pray for him right now on the air. Lord, we pray for Charlie Kirk.

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We pray for Turning Point USA. We pray for our country. We just pray for cooler heads to prevail.

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We pray that you would keep him safe. Lord, we don't know that his condition, but we do pray that you would have your hand of deliverance, guidance and healing on him.

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We pray that justice would come true justice to whoever was involved in this plot.

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We pray, Lord, that you would inspire people to not lose their calmness or coolness about this, but to have a righteous indignation that reaches the the measure that that you have, the righteous indignation you have when you see these kinds of things.

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Lord, we pray that we would you would give us peace as a country and that your gospel and a revival would take place.

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Amen. I don't usually do that on the podcast, but this is a developing story. And I feel like since we're live, we should do that.

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And I would just ask you to pray as well. This if he is mortally wounded, if he dies, then this is going to be this is going to oh, man,

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I can't even I don't even want to think about it, especially on top of the new cycle that we already have. Charlie Kirk has been very brave over the last few years, and this issue he's been very good on.

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I've seen good developments with them. Let's just pray for him. OK, keep

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I'm going to keep going here with J .D. Greer and just play you some other things that he said before. It's just it disgusts me.

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But I think we need to know what we're dealing with here. J .D. Greer still has a lot of influence in the Southern Baptist Convention, Deuteronomy 1018.

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I'm going to skip ahead. I don't want to see more of this. It's more of the same. Let's go to this right here.

29:28

Here's J .D. Greer in 2020. This is where he said that Black Lives Matter is a gospel issue. We realize that especially in a moment like this one, we need our brothers and sisters of color.

29:40

We need the wisdom and leadership that God has written into their community. We know that many in our country, particularly our brothers and sisters of color right now are hurting.

29:48

Southern Baptists, we need to say it clearly as a gospel issue. Black Lives Matter.

29:55

Of course, Black Lives Matter. Our black brothers and sisters are made in the image of God. Black Lives Matter because Jesus died for them.

30:02

Black Lives are a beautiful part of God's creation, and they make up an essential and beautiful part of his body.

30:08

And we would be poor as a people without them and other minorities in our midst.

30:13

Let me echo my friend, Jimmy Scroggins, pastor down in Florida and saying that Black Lives Matter is an important thing to say right now because we are seeing in our country the evidence of specific injustices that many of our black brothers and sisters and friends have been telling us about for years.

30:29

And by the way, let's not respond by saying, oh, well, all lives matter. Of course, all lives matter.

30:34

But I've heard it described this way. So you're in a group. I don't need to hear his description.

30:41

That's if he's going to be consistent. I guess white lives matter right now. Right, J .D. Greer. It's what else do you make of this?

30:49

You can't just the post that he reposted. Let's see if I have it queued up, which is the same one from Katie McCoy that I showed earlier.

30:57

That particular post. Is basically blaming the whole country for this kind of thing,

31:04

I didn't think you were supposed to do that, according to J .D. Greer. Right. You're supposed to target it's the person who was targeted.

31:10

It's their specific social groups that he says. Great insight, Katie. God, have mercy on us. Lord, stoke the fires of this awakening we see happening.

31:17

Set your church aflame and turn our nation back to Jesus. Comfort her mourning family and bring justice quickly. Justice to who?

31:23

J .D. Greer, who needs justice? I mean, according to Katie McCoy, it's just all of us. We all were, I guess, complicit in this.

31:30

Interesting. Well, very different than what he said earlier. He also said other things. The group at a restaurant and.

31:36

Let's skip ahead a little bit here to this. Here he is. This is actually, I think, twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, if I'm not mistaken.

31:42

Besides just reading a verse, a script or something like that to just say, especially if they really want to know.

31:49

Karen, I think that's a great question because I think that's where particularly a lot of those that are in the majority culture are like, what what do we say here?

31:56

We've talked about the parable, the Good Samaritan, that that just because I'm not the one, that doesn't mean that I'm relieved of responsibility.

32:04

But I think in the United States, it even goes a little bit deeper because we recognize that because certain people defined by race were in power for so long, they created some of these systems that have worked better for them, quite frankly, than they have for other people.

32:20

Just if you go back and look at the history of whether it's Jim Crow laws or practices like redlining and some of the long term damage, there's a political commentator and he's very conservative.

32:32

Let me just add that. So this is not just sort of a left wing talking point. He says the word systemic used to really bother me because I thought it meant that the laws themselves were bad.

32:43

And he said, we got that correct in the civil rights movement. And so why are we talking about systemic laws? OK, I don't want to talk about this anymore.

32:50

It's too much shady rear for me for one day. But what about the laws that they work out for arena?

32:56

How about her and the murder that she just but she's not the only one. This kind of stuff is happening all the time.

33:02

I think it's someone would have a tragedy that it's when there's a video, right? George Floyd thing was similar when there's a video that you connect with.

33:09

That's when people get enraged. That's when there's like a momentum to do something. It's the nature of social media.

33:14

It's just the media age we live in. But this kind of thing is happening all the time. And either the videos aren't released, the videos aren't leaked or there are no videos.

33:22

But, of course, we see this kind of violence. Here's a one that's actually happening ongoing right now.

33:30

Julie Garde Chanel, Julie Garde Chanel. And here is a news story.

33:37

This just happened. And she's an Alabama vet killed while walking her dog.

33:43

Police have charged Harold Rashad Dabney, the third with two counts of capital murder after after the body of Dr.

33:50

Julie Garde Chanel, a retired Auburn University veterinary professor, was found

33:55

Saturday in a wooded area of Keisel Park in Auburn, Alabama. Investigators believe that Chanel 59 had been walking her dog.

34:03

She was attacked. She had served as a faculty member at Auburn. She was a cherished educator.

34:10

Police responded to Keisel Park on Saturday after receiving a call reporting a deceased person, the

34:16

Auburn Police Department said in a press release. I don't know if there's much more to say about this, but.

34:23

There's I mean, this is another this is a black on white crime. Now, I don't have any evidence that this was motivated by race, and I'm not saying that I'm not jumping that conclusion.

34:33

I'm just saying that in 2020, we were allowed to speculate on all this and come to conclusions and force the church and force every institution to accommodate and adjust to that.

34:44

And now what's going on? How come? What's what's the double standard about here? Right. So that's what's going out there.

34:52

And so they're going on out there in Southern Baptist. And I ask people, look, let me know if you see more guys who are on the wrong side of 2020 posting about this.

35:01

And there aren't many doing it, I think, for obvious reasons. But in 2020, it was a landslide. Everyone was posting about George Floyd, right?

35:09

If you don't see that the emperor has no clothes now, you never will, because this is such an obvious contradiction.

35:16

And I want to go through, I think the next thing we'll do is we're going to play a little bit of this. And I want to warn you, this is a bit disturbing.

35:24

I think there's even I think they bleep it out, but I think there's even a word that said, but it's disturbing.

35:31

And I think I don't think they show the exact murder. It's it's the camera on the bus, but more has been analyzed.

35:39

And I want to make some points about this. So I'll get to some comments after this, but I want to point this out.

35:45

This is from, I think the what is this from? Daily Caller put this out.

35:51

The entire world has seen this human piece of garbage stab this girl on a train for no reason. I don't think

35:56

I have the video until now. If folks out there can let me know if they hear sound in the comments, that would be great.

36:03

Let me know if you hear sound. I do not hear sound stopped here and the rest was left to imagination.

36:09

But now we have more. Before I continue this, I will tell you there is no blood and the actual stab is not seen.

36:15

But this video. So I'm still waiting to hear if people actually hear sound. For some reason,

36:21

I'm not. OK, people are saying they're getting sound. They're getting commentary. I don't know why I'm not hearing it. So now

36:26

I'm going to be a little more judicious, I suppose. Here is the the moment that to Carlos Brown picks up his knife and he's about to stab

36:41

Irina and she's looking at her phone. And I want you to notice something. Everyone else in this video,

36:47

I know it's blurry. I've seen non blurry versions. They're also looking at their phone. And he does the deed.

36:53

Let's see. OK. Perfect. So that's your warning.

36:59

Here's the continuation. And after he does it, she is

37:06

I'm going to mute this, I'm going to just mute this so you don't hear his commentary, you're just going to hear mine. He she looks into the eyes of the

37:13

Carlos Brown. I mean, I can't even imagine. And there's just pure fear. I don't think she knows what's going on. And you can see the other people on the bus.

37:20

They know something happened because she moved. Now, I don't know what they heard. We don't have any sound. But you see the two people here, at least

37:28

I don't know about the others behind him. They actually they just seem like they're I mean, this guy behind the

37:33

Carlos is still kind of he's looking ahead and it's like he's in a daze. He doesn't even notice.

37:40

But there's two people beside that see her reaction. But I don't I don't know if they realize what actually happened.

37:47

And a lot of people are jumping to they're speculating about they didn't do a thing. They didn't help. They could be.

37:52

But it also could be they just don't know they were on their phone. They didn't see the moment it happened. And it's right after when she jolts her body that they're looking around.

38:02

So this guy gets up, walks past her, but he doesn't even look at her.

38:08

So I don't think he realized I don't know if he realizes exactly what happened. People in the back still have no clue.

38:15

She's crying. She's just crying. And let's go forward here.

38:23

All right. We got a camera here and there's there's some audio and on the audio people speculated

38:32

I speculated in my article, I wasn't sure, but it seemed like to Carlos Brown was saying, I got that white girl.

38:39

Now, it looks like it may not have been him. It may have been someone closer. And in fact, there's it looks like a

38:45

Hispanic guy. There's a white guy. There's it's blurred out in this video. But some people are saying that it's a white guy who said who is this white guy?

38:52

I don't know who said it, but someone is saying this. And you hear

39:01

I just stabbed this girl. Let me see if I can play that for you so you can hear it.

39:11

OK, so you lose in blood bad, bro.

39:19

There's conversations happening. It's hard to make out who's saying what. It looks like the Carlos Brown is saying he stabbed her.

39:25

And then he says that she called me the N -word. Now, there's no nothing on the camera that says they talk to each other at all.

39:32

But you have here about a 90 second delay before someone actually goes to try to help.

39:40

It's a black guy. There's a black guy who goes and tries to help at around 90 seconds.

39:45

Now, you could say that this is because people were ignoring her. That's possible that there were people ignoring her.

39:52

But it's also possible that there were people who just weren't aware of what was going on. This guy, people seem surprised when he says that he he just got he stabbed her.

40:02

People are surprised. There's there's even there's a white guy there. He's he doesn't even know what's going on. He doesn't go help her.

40:08

So all the people that are making a lot of very hard judgments about who was guilty of failing to act in negligence in this case and what class of people were doing that and weren't you.

40:23

I'm just saying it doesn't fit really any particular narrative completely. You have a black guy trying to help her.

40:28

You have I mean, you'd have to say this white guy, too. He was not aware or he was negligent, too.

40:35

He he didn't see what was going on. And then when people realize people do rush to see what's going on.

40:43

OK, that's the video. I just wanted to point that out. The main thing to blame in all of this, of course, are the crime policies and the personnel personnel, his policy that allowed this guy to be free on the streets.

40:57

I was told in 2020, though, that all of this is just racial. All of this is down its group dynamics, its privilege, its power, its systems that don't work for some.

41:06

But how come the disparities in the murder rate that those don't seem to matter? How come the black on white crime, which is so much more than white on black crime?

41:14

How come that disparity doesn't seem to matter? How come J .D. Greer and Clint Presley and Alan Moeller?

41:21

They didn't have anything to say about that, even in their commentary on this. They don't really have anything to say about that.

41:26

It's just there's no white life matter. White lives matter. I don't see I see a few people, but it's not like I don't see white squares yet.

41:35

At least I mean, I don't see all the things that accompany this. I thought, you know, Southern Baptist would. I mean,

41:40

I didn't really think. But Southern Baptist, why aren't they supposed to get involved with this? But they're not.

41:46

They're not. They're not consistent. Obviously, many of you already have known that. But I think it's good to take a walk down memory lane and realize how lied to you've been by some of these people.

41:56

Unfortunately, I say this with sadness, unfortunately, in denominations, in institutions that you trusted.

42:04

And we have a crisis of information now. We have people who are just they're trusting their intuition, whatever

42:11

YouTube voice they hear, that becomes their standard for truth. They don't. It's rare that I find people.

42:17

I mean, there are people who do this, I think in this audience, many of you do it. But it's rare to find people who really evaluate primary sources and try to come up with conclusions that make sense of all the available information.

42:27

Most people are listening to rhetoric and that's how they make their decisions and they can they can go to and fro.

42:32

I mean, I know guys who are woke in 2020 who are now on a neo -Nazi path. I mean, it's just you could be just shifted about by all these winds.

42:42

But you have to be someone who's stable. You have to be someone who's measured. Don't just trust institutions automatically.

42:47

That is a lesson. That's a lesson we're pulling from this situation as well. You can't just trust people because they have letters by their name or they occupy an office in an institution that you used to trust.

43:00

The quality has gone down, guys. The allegiance to the guild and the guild narratives has gone up.

43:06

To find someone who's a truth teller who will tell the truth when it doesn't benefit them is rare. How many pastors shut down their churches in 2020?

43:13

Never said a thing about it. And now they're crusading against what they caved on back then.

43:19

They're crusaders about what happened in 2020. They're so brave now that it doesn't count and that it actually benefits their platform to be against what happened in 2020.

43:28

Always if you're going to measure someone's quality of information and whether or not they are someone who's virtuous and someone you should trust and listen to, always look at the kinds of things they say when it counts them.

43:43

Will it really cost them or are they saying it because it actually benefits them in the moment?

43:49

That's one of the things that I think if you just do that basic thing, you can tell sometimes where someone's principles actually lie.

43:56

Are they consistent? And sadly, the members, the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention are not.

44:02

Yes, people are commenting on Charlie Kirk situation. I did pray on the stream already. I did mention it.

44:07

I do not know what's happening. I still am updating the articles and we don't have any more information than it looks like what we already read you.

44:18

So please pray for Charlie Kirk. Pray for that whole entire situation.

44:25

It's just beyond sad and it's bad for our country. I don't know what the

44:30

Lord's doing, but I'm going to get to some comments. I'm going to get to the ones that Earl Starbuck for $2 said.

44:35

And here I thought Christ washed stains away. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. And then make capital punishment great again.

44:43

Absolutely correct. Capital punishment going the way of the dodo bird is one of the worst things that has happened to our country.

44:50

I'm going to prioritize the questions and then those who are paying for super chats first.

44:58

And I have many on Charlie Kirk. Gamma asks, is

45:04

John a race realist or does he think race isn't real, but just cultural? I believe race is real.

45:09

And this would take me longer to go through a podcast on this. I've always believed this. But I think

45:15

I have a more holistic view of race, ethnicity and people. When you use those terms,

45:21

I talk about this in my book in detail against the waves, Christian order in a liberal age and a premodern context.

45:28

These things all pretty much meant the same thing. When you're talking about a different kind of people that have a shared experience in a place.

45:35

And because of that, they're going to have shared genetic similarities, shared ancestry, but they're also going to have shared cultural touchstones and language and all the rest.

45:44

So I look at it more holistically than simply a DNA test. But I do believe people are different.

45:50

And DNA is one of the things that does separate different kinds of people. I think it is more complicated, though, than simply reducing everything to just one thing, whether it's

46:00

DNA or in the case of this. I think it's a much weirder and worse view.

46:06

But the CRT advocates, you think everything's just a power construct, power level that you have in society and a press or a press kind of thing.

46:14

I think that's more ridiculous. But no, I'm a very big opponent of the proposition nation. I do believe there is such thing as nationality.

46:22

Actually, nationality itself and race would have been more or less interchangeable at one time.

46:28

I think Darwin changed a lot of that because he wanted to reduce things down to biology. That's what makes sense of the differences.

46:34

When Europeans showed up in places like Africa or South America and they saw differences between their achievements and their culture and their religion and these other people, what made sense of that and the way they look differently?

46:49

Well, Darwin wanted to say, well, it's a biology. That's all it is. And the progressive movement more or less adopted that frame that biology is what makes sense.

46:57

Everything is downstream from that. I don't believe that's necessarily the case. I think there are some things that are biological.

47:04

I believe it's also hard to tell on some things. And I think that there's cultural factors and environmental factors and situational factors that all come into this, including religious factors.

47:16

So that's a short answer. Hopefully that helps explain kind of where I'm at on that.

47:22

I know I've talked about this many times before, but, you know, to give you an example that I there's people at my church, there's friends that I have that are culturally more similar to me in many ways.

47:33

We have more similar cultural touchstones and they happen to be black. And I happen to be, quote unquote, white.

47:38

I am I think of myself as more, you know, Scottish, English with a little peppered

47:44

German and Irish in there. But I'm Anglo. I'm Anglo. But I, you know,

47:49

I have more similarities with them in some ways than someone who's newly arrived from Russia, for example, that doesn't know my language and so forth.

47:57

So you have to take all these things into consideration, I believe, when you're crafting policies and all of that.

48:03

OK, I probably spent way too much time on that question, but I figured, hey, I'll answer it because I get those kinds of questions now more often since there's all kinds

48:14

Pandora's box has been open and there's all kinds of ideas out there about what constitutes the uniqueness of people groups.

48:22

OK, let's see what other comments do I want to get to? T. James Boone says racism is an umbrella term invented by the left to group all sorts of thinking and actions together, some sinful, some not to control people's mind, and it worked.

48:40

He's also correcting me on the pronunciation of Jeff Lord's last name, but I didn't say anything about Jeff Lord. But apparently, am

48:47

I saying Jeff Lord wrong? It's pronounced O .R .D .G .E. like George without the first G.

48:54

So it's it's what am I saying wrong, then? Is it

49:01

Orge, Jeff, Jeff Orge, not Lord, Jeff Orge. OK, all right. Got it.

49:06

I'll try to remember that. He also signed, I guess, since we're on Jeff Orge, we he signed the particular statement

49:15

BLM narrative statement on George Floyd's death as well. That he says we need

49:20

American born citizens in every level of government. No more dual citizenship either. I would agree. I would agree with that.

49:27

Let's see. There's a cosmic treason says there's one hundred ninety seven million whites in America and forty eight million blacks.

49:35

According to Grock, using the previous numbers, there are at most 14 million born again whites and two point four million born again blacks in America.

49:42

I'm not sure what this is has to do with, I guess, evaluating to what extent the black population is

49:49

Christian. I would say that there's a cultural and here's what it actually I can make a good point on this.

49:55

Yes, I believe that black people have a cultural Christianity in the

50:01

United States that has that goes back for a long time, but it has been more or less infiltrated by agitators, communist agitators in the 20th century.

50:12

You had new abolitionist types in the 19th century that had bad theology that infiltrated some of those groups.

50:22

And it's created a situation where now if you go to some black churches and not all but many, it's basically a political rally.

50:30

I know because, well, I should probably not get the reason I know. I think everyone listening can probably figure that out.

50:37

The Al Sharpton's and Jesse Jackson's of the world are not necessarily an anomaly. So I think that if you do something, if you do the

50:46

Christian identitarian thing, which is kind of like a white version of that, where it's like we're white, therefore we're

50:51

Christian, you can land into a very similar place very easily, which is why I am critical of that.

50:59

I think that Christianity is a universal religion, but is culturally contextual according to certain wherever it takes shape and blooms.

51:08

And so you are going to have a different kind of Christianity, different kind of music style, different kind of preaching style in, let's say, a black church setting than you would many white church settings.

51:21

But you're going to have also a very different kind of cultural setting that's on a spectrum of, quote, unquote, white churches.

51:30

I've been in white churches that are very different because of cultural things as well. So it is what's important to remember is

51:38

Christianity is a universal religion. You never want to get lost in those cultural artifacts and then make those the just the chief defining factor that defines a religion.

51:48

Yes, they do provide definition, but it's like this. They're like the tune that the message is connected to.

51:55

You have a song and you have a message. That's that's the message. That's the important information that's going out there, that's being communicated.

52:02

And there's a different kind of tune that it's speaking of tunes, music and masculinity.

52:08

I just realized music and masculinity conference is coming up. And I did have a video queued up for that, by the way, the men's retreat.

52:13

It is in three weeks. Music and masculinity dot com. You should sign up if you're a man. Here's actually a video of it.

52:21

This is this is last year's retreat. OK, I guess my mic has some problems with it.

53:40

I'm going to end the stream in a moment anyway. I'm going to get to a few comments here.

53:46

I hope that that sound is ended. I don't know what happened. I did plug in just recently. I unplugged and plugged in my microphone and maybe that's causing issues.

53:55

There's footage of Charlie Kirk being shot now. Don't watch it.

54:00

Pray for his family. We're not going to watch it. Oh, no, there's likely no way he survived.

54:13

Let me get to some comments. I feel unsafe as a white woman right now. I can understand that.

54:21

It's one video, though, just realize that. And it really depends on where you go and you take proper precautions.

54:28

Know where you're sitting. If you're in a Democrat controlled inner city that has high populations of people that are prone to criminal activity, more so the risk is higher.

54:38

Just be careful. I think most people automatically do that. I think that Irina was probably from another country and wasn't taking the same precautions that many of us do.

54:50

Conversations that matter. Would you consider doing a deep dive on different usages of terms like race, realism, scientific racism, genetic determinism, race essentialism, race determinism?

54:58

It's hard because we're in flux and people are using these words differently. I think I used race realist the other day to describe.

55:04

In fact, I think it launched this morning. I recorded it the other day, but it was with Virgil Walker. And I think

55:10

I used it the way that a lot of people I notice on X are using it now, which is more of a bio determinist usage that your biology is everything's downstream from that.

55:20

So you have DNA and that determines your culture, your IQ. It determines your IQ and your IQ determines your culture.

55:26

I but but here's the problem. Like if people say that's race realism and then if that's how it's defined by a lot of people, which

55:34

I think it is by many. I personally, I think that race is real and there and you could define it.

55:41

And I have heard people before this scenario where now. So going the first time

55:47

I heard race realism was probably heard the term twenty seventeen, right or eighteen. Right.

55:52

And the way it was described to me then was I would be perfectly fine with just saying that there are biological differences between people, groups and those biological differences do impact.

56:06

But it's not it's not an explanation for everything. It doesn't explain everything about their society.

56:12

But it does mean the biological differences do impact, let's say, the kind of sports that they participate in and the kind of economic activities they do and all kinds of other things that I'm open to that.

56:24

Right. I'm not against that. I think biology is a real thing. I read I'm not agnostic. So so it depends how you define it.

56:32

And it's like a lot of these words I was just asked earlier today. Am I or what do I think about kinism? And I'm like, I don't use the term.

56:38

I don't care for the term. I think the term I mean, a lot of people I know who use the term do use it as like it's a sin to marry someone or it's not even a real marriage.

56:47

Some people go that far. I've heard at least that people do. And they think that if you marry someone who's of another race, it's sin or you're murdering people.

56:58

I've heard that, too. You're murdering people because you're not continuing your line, your race. But I've heard other people say, well, it's just unwise in general to marry someone outside your culture because it creates problems.

57:09

I'm like, well, that I understand. So a lot of these terms, it's very hard to. And I think some people purposely muddy the waters.

57:16

That's why you do need to have people who are measured, who will talk through these things and not just knee jerk at the hearing a term that is defined broadly.

57:26

So or defined in different ways that you have to have someone who explains what he means by it.

57:32

And hopefully I'm a guy like that. I try to be at least OK. We're going to end the podcast.

57:39

Brian was sake, he says we are at war. Oh, gosh,

57:44

I I'm going to have to go check what's going on. Let me this is my last thing I guess I'll do. I'm going to just go on X real quick to see what's going on.

57:54

And see what's trending on the front page here. May I don't I don't want to show the video.

58:02

Sources tell me it's critical, says Megan Basham. Pray hard. Oh, goodness. OK. The suspect is an elderly white man, it looks like.

58:18

So I'll show you the picture here from William Wolfe. This is who the suspect is at this point.

58:27

So I don't know anything else, but just pray for our country.

58:32

Pray for our country. Things are coming to a head. And I'm glad that President Trump is in office and not the alternative.