Christian Liberty- Laborers' Podcast

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Join the Laborers as they discuss Christian Liberty. #church #christianliberty #christianity #freedom #

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Welcome to the Laborers Podcast. Thank you for watching. Tonight we are going to be talking about Christian Liberty.
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What is it? Stick with us. Welcome to the Laborers Podcast, which is a part of the
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Truth in Love Network. Join us as together we strive to grow up together in all things into Christ.
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Subscribe and follow the Truth in Love Network on Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, Spotify, and iTunes.
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Now let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast. Let's do that.
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Let's join our laborers for tonight's podcast. We have Jay with us. We have
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Big John, Troy the Humble Baptist, and Tyler Noe, Bread of the Word Podcast.
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How are you guys doing? Great. Happy to be here. Not too bad. In unison.
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That was great. I'm doing pretty good. In one accord.
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That's right. Yeah. So let's jump into it.
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Tonight we want to be talking about Christian Liberty. There's different sides to this point.
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There's the side of Christian Liberty where our freedom in Christ, where we are set free, where before we were not able and didn't want to obey
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God, but now we are free and able to obey Him and through the work of the
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Holy Spirit we can please Him. And then there's the other aspect of Christian Liberty where there's things in this life that we can enjoy and glorify
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God by doing those things in faith and not be condemned and to a degree shouldn't be condemned by others.
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So there's different aspects of Christian Liberty. By the way, the comment line is open.
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Let us know that you're watching. Say hello. Let us know if we can pray for you. Ask a question. Give us a critique.
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We're all about that and we would love to hear from you. So any initial thoughts from anybody on Christian Liberty?
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I'll say this much. We are slaves to something no matter what. That's true.
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We'll talk about that later probably. Right. Something to start thinking about. Just something to tickle your taste buds there.
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Is that what you're saying? Yes, sir. Just a little bit. And I have this strong desire to say this tonight too.
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It really doesn't have anything to do with Christian Liberty, but just like most everybody else, we spend a good bit of time online and we're in certain circles.
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Our circles overlap, but we're also in different circles and we see different people.
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We follow different people online and sometimes as some people gain platform, gain influence, they have a conviction about certain ways and styles of ministry.
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It happens that it comes across as, if you don't do it my way, then you're wrong, or a sense of looking down on people who are not able to do ministry the way that you do.
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It's really fun when you follow people on other sides of that aisle and you get to watch them fight in your feed.
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Yeah. There's in -fighting going on, out -fighting going on, but I just wanted to encourage everybody to think about the passage, about how we're all different parts of the same body and all parts are equally important.
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Not everybody is called or going to be a street preacher.
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Not everybody is going to be walking and preaching at a murder meal, abortion meal.
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That takes a very particular gifting. That is not the whole body.
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That's right, and you may be the one in your home holding a bottle while someone else is holding a megaphone.
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Yeah. And they're just as important and we should treat each other as if they are, their work, their part in this body is just as important and they're loved by us and they're loved by God just the same.
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That was just on my heart this evening and I wanted to share that. So whatever your role is in the kingdom, you are important to God and you're important to us and we appreciate you.
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Christian liberty, number one, what does the Bible teach about the relationship between Christian liberty and the law?
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Examples we have is 1 through 6 in Romans 6, 14. Christian liberty and the law.
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Well, it might be a good idea to start by reading the text. Just to jump in there.
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So Galatians 5, 1 through 6, stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith
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Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
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I can't talk today for some reason with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you that if you be circumcised,
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Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
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Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace.
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For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. The whole book of Galatians really sort of mirrors that and Romans does as well.
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Which chapters in Romans did you have written down? I've got my phone pulled up. 6. Which verse?
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14. 6. 14. 14. Yeah. I'll pull it up.
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So this is the NASB. Oh, we go back and catch a couple verses just to make sure we're reading it in context.
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I'll start at 1 if it's okay with y 'all. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may increase?
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May it never be. How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you know or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death?
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Therefore, we've been buried with him through baptism into death so that Christ will be raised from the dead through the glory of the
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Father. So we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him and the likeness of his death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection.
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Knowing this, that our old self was crucified with him in order that our body of sin might be done away with so that we would no longer be slaves to sin.
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For we who died, for he who has died is freed from sin.
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How far you want me to go? Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that he shall also live with him.
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Knowing that Christ having been raised from the dead is never to die again. Death no longer is the master over him.
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For the death that he died, he died to sin once for all. For the life that he lives, he lives to God.
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So even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
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Therefore do not let your sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lust and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness.
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But present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
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For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law but under grace.
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I think this passage really points out, even though it's not specifically talking about where a lot of people go with Christian liberty, you know,
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I have the freedom to partake in this, that's my Christian liberty. But this really speaks, in my opinion, to that in the sense that your freedom, even so consider yourself dead to sin but alive to Christ, your freedom, where you have been set free, there is a point to that and it's the point to Jesus Christ and it's the point to God.
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And so thinking about your liberties that you have now in the Christian faith, there is a point to that, this aliveness that you have now in Christ.
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And this Galatian passage, Jay, and maybe think about the comment that you made at the beginning, verse one in chapter five, you talk about how we're a slave to something.
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And that's true. And you know that because of the harmony of Scripture. But here it says in verse one, do not subject again to a yoke of slavery.
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Mm -hmm. So harmonize that, your comment and then verse one.
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Sure. So actually, I'm actually going to go to Ephesians. Everybody likes
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Ephesians two, eight and nine. And I usually tell people, well, just read one more verse after that.
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Let me go ahead and pull it up. Because everybody reads eight and nine, which is fantastic, nothing wrong with reading eight and nine.
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But you got to finish the whole thing, baby. Complete the thought. There you go.
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So Ephesians two, eight. For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing.
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It is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. OK, so up until that point, you see the freedom, right?
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You've been saved by grace through faith. Nothing you did, no works whatsoever.
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You're free, right? You have eternal life. There's no more chains on you, no more sin, no more law, right?
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Or so we think. Read verse 10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which
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God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. OK. Why have we been saved by grace through faith?
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Actually, before we even answer that question, why or what have we been saved from? From sin, right?
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From our lack of love for God, from our separation from God, right?
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And from our yoke of slavery, right?
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Or I'm sorry, yoke of slavery to sin, excuse me. Now that we've been set free from that, there's a purpose.
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It's not just to do whatever we want, whenever we want, however we want. That doesn't really happen, right?
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We're going to be slaves to something all the time. We have been created in Christ Jesus for good works.
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Kind of reminds me of Romans 3 .31, which says, do we then overthrow the law by this faith?
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On the contrary, we uphold or we establish the law, right? We uphold the law. We say this law is good, right?
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In Romans 7, Romans actually explains this, I think, in my opinion, better than any other book of the
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Bible. We uphold the law and we say that it is good, even though we can't keep it perfectly.
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We can't, right? Romans 7, Paul says, what I want to do,
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I do not want to do. What I do not want to do, that is what I keep on doing. But in that same passage, he also says that the law is good.
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We agree with the law that it is good. So I would say we read
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Galatians 5, but Galatians 4 actually really, really illustrates what our relationship to the law and our liberty looks like, right?
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It says this, Galatians 4, I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father.
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In the same way, also, when we were children, we were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.
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But when the fullness of time had come, God sent for his son, born of a woman, born under the law to redeem those who were under the law so that we might receive adoption as sons.
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And because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his son into our hearts, crying,
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Abba, father. So you are no longer a slave, but a son. And if a son, then an heir through God.
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So let's make sense out of that one, right? At the beginning, it says that as long as we are children, we're no different from a slave.
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We have a father over us. In this illustration, the father is the law, right?
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But there comes a point where the law is no longer what is set over us.
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We are given freedom. But what happens when we grow up?
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What does any child do when he or she grows up? Well, the father is no longer above them, but what they've been taught by that father, they continue to practice out of love for the father.
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Now, I don't want to overstretch the illustration that Paul has given us here.
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But the law has always been a teacher. The difference from the time that we were without Christ and the time that we were with Christ is that we have grown up into Christ, and so we no longer have the law over us as our father.
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But the law is good. As Paul said, we established the law, as Paul also said in Romans three.
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The law is what we use in our Christian liberty to practice what we believe to live our
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Christian life, right? Not as a weight on top of us, but as a guide, right?
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The reformed have the three uses of the law. I like the third use of the law, which is like a compass, right?
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It's no longer our ruler. Law doesn't rule over us.
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Law is our guide. Law is what we use in our liberty to express our love for God, knowing that if we fail to keep it, we're not under the law.
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Therefore, we will not be condemned. So hopefully that makes sense.
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I'd like to just add, right, just because our question, what does the Bible teach about the relationship between Christian liberty and the law?
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And so just a good basic definition, even though most of the listeners probably already have an idea about what
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Christian liberty is, is going to be Christian liberty is not liberty to sin, right?
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This is not a Christian freedom to live the way you are. Paul argues against that, as Jay mentioned, right?
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Should we sin more that grace may abound? God forbid. The law shows us its main focus is to show us that we need a savior, that we cannot do it, that we have not made it to where we need to be.
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Christian liberty are the things that are not set black and white in scripture to where we go, okay, am
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I sinning if I do this, right? There's not going to be a verse that we look at that says, thou shalt do this or thou shalt not do this, and so therefore left to Christian liberty, or they would be, as Rob was talking about in the beginning, things that people do do differently.
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So I think about what Jay's verse is reading there from Galatians about how the slave and the son, while they live in the father's house, there appears to be no difference.
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I kind of see that a little bit differently than the way you broke that down.
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I actually never saw the way you broke it down, so I was trying to kind of come where you're saying. I think the way
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I've always looked at it is the practicality or the result of one being a slave and one being a son, both are in the father's house, and I think that's the key part of it, right?
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They were both in the father's house, but only one of them had a relationship that was enduring.
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The other one doesn't have a relationship that's enduring. A slave was on the timeline, right, unless he chose to be the slave forever in terms of Jewish culture, but let's say we're not talking about Jewish culture.
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Let's say we're talking about the broader sense of the term, since Paul is writing to Gentiles in this case, and so there is no timeline for whenever these slaves would be given their freedom.
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The fact of the matter is both of them are residents of the master's home, but only one of them is going to inherit that home, and I think that is the key difference between the two.
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Obviously, the master takes care of both of them, but one of them he takes care of out of love and obligation, and the other one he takes care of out of obligation.
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Ultimately, the law came so that it might make sin sinful, and sin doesn't become exceedingly sinful until there is a transgression against it, right?
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So the law's purpose is to point everyone to the cross, and after that, you can use the law as a guide,
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I suppose. You can say the law said you go this far and you stop, so at the very least, that's a good starting point, right?
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It's been several years ago we discussed the concept of tithing on here. Do you remember that, Rob, and how the
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Old Testament law of tithing was laid out clearly in Scripture, and the question was, as a
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New Testament believer, are we instructed to live the same way, and it's like, well, no, not really, but if you look at what the
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New Testament church did do, they give 100 % of what they had to the apostles, so it's not like grace slackens the reins of what the law was trying to do, but rather grace is perfecting what the law could never do, which was to drive us to be more like Jesus, which is to drive us to want to be like Jesus and to want to have this relationship with God.
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It was because of hard hearts and sinful nature that God even gives the law, so what the law couldn't do, grace and salvation gives us the ability to do.
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Amen, there it is. I'll say—oh,
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I'm sorry, Rob, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say we have to contextualize one aspect of the law.
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There are—so, for example, we must understand what the law is and what the law isn't, right?
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So when we're talking about the law as a guide, we're talking about the moral principles behind the law that God has given, right?
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Because, for example, I'm still going to eat shellfish, right? I love shrimp, and I'm not breaking any law, right?
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So we have to understand what the purpose of the law was and what each law is saying.
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So, for example, a lot of these, right, ceremonial and sort of separating kinds of laws, like not eating shellfish or what kind of clothing
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Old Testament Israel was using, those are things that we would say, okay, obviously, you know, we don't practice that anymore, but why?
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Well, because it was given for a time, for a purpose. For that purpose was to separate, right, to keep the nation of Israel holy and separate in God's eyes, right?
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Now, you can take things out of the laws that God gave and find moral principles that can still apply today, again, as a guide, not as something that we ought to strive for.
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Like, for example, okay, I'm trying to think of that one that we had talked about like a while ago.
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Oh, okay, so like building the parapet on your roof, right? Back in ancient
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Israel times, people would build a small wall around the roofs. Why? Because people hung out on the roofs, and so it was to protect people from falling off the roof and dying, right?
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And if you didn't have some kind of protection for anybody that was in your house at that time, and they fell off your house, well, you would be found guilty of their death for not taking the proper precautions, right?
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So, we can take that and say, okay, well, that means that I should take care of the people that are in my home, that I should take the proper precautions to protect people in my home.
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That is good and right to do. Why? Because I love Jesus, and one of the things that Jesus told me is to love my neighbor as I love myself.
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And so I want to protect those around me, right? That's a good and godly thing to do. But again, you're not under that law itself.
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It's a guide, right? It's a teacher. It can show you the way to live because you love
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Christ, but you're not under it, especially not under it in a sense of, like, you need to keep it in order to be saved.
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Does that make sense? It does. So, Rob, you were going to say something. Well, I was just going to share this.
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I drew this out of the book that Dan and I are reviewing on the
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Truth and Love podcast by Harrison Perkins, The Reformed Covenant Theology, and I drew this out from that book, and I hope that I'm not taking it.
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I hope what I'm getting from it is what, at least, sort of what he meant by it.
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But I made two distinctions. When it comes to the law,
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I labeled it like a list. And so we can give it all, whatever adjectives we want, you know.
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It's, we view it as a guide. We view it as a compass. We view it as, you know, whatever adjective, whatever, however we want to view it, it's still a list.
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This is, these are character nature, characteristics of God. This is how, this is a list that helps us to understand who
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God is. It's a list of things to go by. Old Testament, the laws, the list that he gave to Adam, our father, and then you have the list, the laws in the
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New Testament, the commands of Christ, whatever they are, it's a list, right? And so before Christ, I labeled it as a law list, something that we had to follow or to please
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God. It was a burden. But then after Christ, after regeneration, after we've been born again,
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I see it as a love list. I can now, I can now look at this list and bear
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God's image by using this list to know him and to follow him because I love him.
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Not because it's a law that I have to keep, but it's because I love him. Yeah.
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I'm sorry it took me so long to get there, but... No, you're good. I love it. I love it. No pun intended.
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And just to take that a step further, because where it gets really beautiful is the fact that we're still not going to keep it at that point, that even when it is the love list, we still will imperfectly keep that law.
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And yet God looks upon that imperfect obedience and sees the righteousness of Christ. Amen.
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Amen. That he looks upon our attempts to be like Christ and it's counted to us as though Christ did all the work because he did.
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Let me lay out something from the Sermon on the Mount to kind of prove what I was trying to say.
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Jesus gives the Beatitudes and he goes into, you know, you're the salt of the earth.
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The salt has become tasteless. You haven't become salty again. You're the light of the world. And then he says, Do not think that I come to abolish the law or the prophets.
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I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the law until all is accomplished.
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Whoever then annuls one of the least of the commandments and teaches others to do so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
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Whoever keeps and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you'll not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Then he says, You've heard that the ancients were told you shall not commit adultery.
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And whoever commits adultery shall be liable to the court. Now, this is very much law your talk right all the way down to the court.
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But what does Jesus do with it? Does he loosen the restrictions of the law?
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No, he does not. He does not. He says, But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother, who is angry with his brother, shall be guilty before the court.
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Whoever says your brother, you're good for nothing, shall be guilty before the Supreme Court. Whoever says you fool shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
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And then you've heard it said you should not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who looks with lust at a woman who's already committed adultery with her in his heart.
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So the intentions of the law was not to give loopholes for man to operate in.
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The intentions of the law were to show man that that this is wrong. Yeah, that the substance of this thing is wrong, not the not the letter of it is wrong, not just carrying out its logical end, but the very thing that drives you to even begin this type of thinking is wrong.
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And to that end, as Tyler would say, not one of us has kept it.
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So I'm not saying that liberty and the law don't have any kind of relationship whatsoever.
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We're free from the condemnation that the law brings because we're free in Christ, but we're just that we're free in Christ, meaning that as long as we're in Christ, we're free of the consequences of breaking the law.
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Amen. That doesn't that doesn't give you unilateral liberty to say,
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OK, well, the law's been paid for and the sin that associates with breaking the law has been paid for.
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Now I can break the laws without any consequence. Now I can live and rank sin without any consequences because sin has been paid for.
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Undoubtedly, there were some Gnostics that were doing that back in those days. And Paul would say that their damnation was justified in teaching that nonsense.
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But it's a freedom from and a freedom to. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, you were you were dead and you've been made alive.
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Why would you die again? Right. You're not. It's not to say that you're immune to death anymore.
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You were dead. Now you've been raised alive. Now, this is where I suppose some of our theology would differ, how we view this.
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Most of you would agree that once you've been raised new life, you can no longer ever fall back into sin in a sense that you can lose this salvation.
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We're obviously I disagree with you on that. So I'll I'll forego that next statement.
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I was going to say for the I had some verses ready and everything for some time being of unity.
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But I'm reminded of 1 Peter 2, 24, where he bore our our griefs that dying to sin, we would live under righteousness.
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Yeah. So if I can bring us back to the distinction of of Christian liberty probably and the law.
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So, you know, Christian liberty, if we're just going to if I can just throw some things out there to kind of just these are some things that are often talked about with Christian liberty.
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Should every woman in the congregation wear a blue jean denim skirt down to her ankles every
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Sunday morning? Is it OK for you to be a vegetarian? Is this you know, should guys wear suits to church every
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Sunday? Right. Like like these types of things, whenever we think about Christian liberty, are not stuff that is sinful.
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You know, but it's things that we can, you know, whether or not to celebrate feast days or holidays, right, give up going to the
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Romans 14 passage that we'll look at here in a little bit. It's things that are not sinful.
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Another one I think of is contemporary Christian music. You know, are you are you a hymn singing church or are you a contemporary, you know, are you playing, you know,
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Sovereign Grace music or, you know, modern contemporary songs, you know?
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And so it's operating this space of like, OK, we don't have something to say that this is sinful.
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But yet, you know, we there's there's this area here where there's going to be some people on one side and some people on another.
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And both are permissible within the bounds of scripture, we can't we can't pull a verse out and go, that's sin.
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If someone is saying, I am, you know, well, it's up to my
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Christian liberty to live in adultery, then they are obviously completely misunderstanding.
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They're using that as a license to sin. And that is that that's as far from the from the truth as what it can get.
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And I believe that is the point that we've been making. However, that's not Christian liberty at all.
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That's idolatry. True enough, true enough.
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I think that personal convictions weigh a lot into whether or not somebody dresses a certain way versus not.
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I mean, we we have to admit that there is, in fact, some kind of a line that we don't cross. Right.
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Yep. And and that. I would say that's common sense, but any more common sense is a superpower.
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So you really can't say that. The the idea is. You know, what what honors
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God in your walk, your talk, your dress and your music should be the thing that guides you, just like we were talking about how grace does what the law couldn't.
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That same that same concept should guide you in this direction as well, should it not. Right. For instance, a.
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Well, you started with dresses. So if if a person has some kind of conviction that they think that they need to wear long dresses,
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I say, well, amen. You know what I mean? Just let it just let it be what it is if they don't have that conviction and they wear something, something else, whether it be still modest.
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Yeah. Whether it's still modest. Again, we're we're we're working into the understanding that this is
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Christian behavior. Right. So wait, I can wear a dress to church then. I mean, that would be weird.
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Right. I'm just going to say up front. What's the Spanish word for a feminine, Jay? I mean, so I don't know that that the
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Scottish folks out there qualify, but I think they wear dresses, don't they? They got some manly name, they call it, but it's a skirt.
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It's a it's a it's a skirt. It's a skirt. Anyway.
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My point is, if if a woman, Jay, if a woman wants to wear long dress or a modest dress or breeches or something to that effect,
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I whatever. Right. I mean, it is what it is. It's not the end of the world. If a man wants to wear long sleeves everywhere he goes, whatever that's if he wants to wear a suit and a tie, that's that's that's between him and the
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Lord. If he doesn't want to wear a suit and a tie, that's again, that's between him and the Lord. I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't show up in a tank top to church.
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You know what I mean? Rocking out some kind of a vintage 80s rock and roll band like Tyler would undoubtedly.
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But but you had to be there.
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But I mean, you know, modesty is the is the rule is the word there when it comes to music.
35:30
I mean, I think that we would we would agree on this podcast that we do not agree. I mean, we have established a couple of things.
35:37
One, that there is at least one Hillsong song Jay likes. Right. And he still can't believe they sung it.
35:44
King of Kings, remember? Listen, slander is a sin, sir. All right.
35:50
So have we had the CCM talk? We've had that.
35:55
Yeah, we've had that. In any case, at the same time, you know, if music honors
36:00
God and edifies the church and it's it's sung about Jesus and doing so,
36:07
I don't have a problem with it, whether it be a hymn, whether it be a song, whether it be contemporary at this, you know, whether it be
36:13
Southern gospel, even though I don't really care for Southern gospel is even. Again, I think that it's it's what's the intentions behind it?
36:21
Yeah. That brings up Romans 14, 23, whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
36:29
Right. And as as a people of God, as followers of Christ.
36:35
I mean, this this is really very simple, right? Like we have liberty. We have Christian liberty. But can you really say, oh, yeah,
36:43
I love Jesus Christ. I love everything about him. So thankful that he saved me. Can you say that with a straight face and then go on sinning deliberately and unrepentantly, not seeking the glory of God, not seeking to honor him?
36:57
I'm not saying struggle. I'm not talking about struggle. We all struggle with sin. Sure.
37:02
We all we all backslide. We all I'm talking about somebody that just continuously lives in unrepentant sin, continually lives for, you know, the satisfaction of their own flesh, not for the glory of God.
37:16
I mean, if you if you've been saved, right, it's like the woman that poured perfume on Jesus.
37:25
Right. Like she gave the most expensive, probably the most expensive thing that she had for him because she recognized, wow,
37:33
I've been forgiven for so much. I love so much. Right.
37:39
And it's like when you when you reflect on how much you've been forgiven, how can you not love
37:46
Jesus enough to glorify him in everything that you do? How can you not seek to fight against your sin and to do what is right?
37:55
That doesn't make any sense to me in my mind. I can't imagine how anybody can say I truly believe in Jesus and they don't fight against their flesh.
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They don't crucify their flesh. They don't seek out the glory of God. Again, not perfectly.
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We are all tempted by our flesh. Again, Romans seven makes it abundantly clear.
38:16
What I do not want to do is what I keep on doing. Yeah. But it's a matter of the heart.
38:21
Like what is it that you want to do? So whether it's wearing a dress for women, women, not me, wearing a certain type of dress to church or or whatever music you listen to or whatever it might be.
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Are you overall, you know, are you does your heart lead you to say, am
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I glorifying God with this? You know, am I honoring God and am I loving my neighbor as Jesus told me to do when
38:48
I do the things that I do? I don't know if somebody that doesn't really think about such things ever can say, oh, yeah,
38:56
I totally follow Jesus. You know what I'm saying? Like and that's that's a question for them, right? Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith.
39:03
It's not for me to determine ultimately right now. And so that brings up a really well, hang on, just just one thing that I got to say really quick, because we have to understand this.
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It's a lot of people want to say, oh, that person's definitely a heretic and that person's not saying this and this and that.
39:21
And there might be a time for that. But I think we have to be real careful with that because that's not our that's not our job.
39:28
Ultimately, if that person's dealing with something that you think is sinful, you know what? That's what church discipline is there for.
39:35
Right. And ultimately, the Lord will judge. But anyway, I'm sorry, Tyler, go ahead. See, that brings up a really valid point.
39:43
I think oftentimes with the liberty discussions, we kind of come back to this question of does
39:50
God really care? You know, a lot of us are coming from a more, I guess, fundamentalist background with that that rigidity in the moral principles.
39:59
I'm not. I come from the opposite end of the spectrum. I came up in some of the megachurches where it was the opposite.
40:06
It was oftentimes it was all grace and no law. And so everything is permissible. And you had this pushback on somebody who is a little more regimented in things.
40:16
Like if you were opposed to singing Taylor Swift during the worship set, that was a Pharisee.
40:23
Taylor Swift. And I've been working through Job for like a year and a half. Yes, I was there.
40:30
It was quite the day. Okay. When the worship song uses baby in that particular way, that might not be the best thing to do.
40:39
But back on track here, I've been working through Job for like a year and a half at this point.
40:45
And I've been in the slums lately. It's been brutal working through the words Eliphaz that there have been a couple times reading it where I've been like,
40:53
I want to slap this guy. But in Jesus name,
40:58
I want to lay this dude out. Like, what were you thinking, man? But he asked this question, actually, in chapter 22.
41:08
He says, is it any pleasure to the almighty that thou art righteous? Is it gain to him that thou markest thy ways perfect?
41:16
He literally asked Job, what does it matter to God if you obey him? And I think oftentimes that's where we land with discussions about law and liberty is does
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God really care if I get a tattoo or not? Does God really care if I drink here and there?
41:34
And we're told he does. We're told that he cares very deeply about that. Samuel says that to obey is better than sacrifice.
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That's right. And that to hearken unto his voice is better than burnt offerings. That to obey
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God is the sacrifice. That a contrite heart he does not despise.
41:54
That this is the worship. It's not just the songs we sing on Sundays, but it is walking in step with Christ.
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It is being transformed by the renewing of our mind that we can discern that good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
42:09
That is our worship. And so yes, God puts very intense value on our obedience, on our love for him.
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That matters to him. Yes, do all things heartily as unto the Lord. Absolutely.
42:25
Amen. I loved your citation of Psalm 51. That's my favorite Psalm, by the way.
42:31
Contrite heart. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Good work,
42:36
Tyler. Amen. I think we're probably just going to camp out on question two for the rest of the podcast.
42:43
I would like to - Just for context, we had 10 on the sheet. I would like to narrow it for the remainder of the conversation because I think this is a significant part of the conversation.
42:57
The question is, how should Christians navigate the balance between personal freedom and the impact of their actions on others?
43:08
Oh, I see. That's good. And you have some who have a very nonchalant,
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I don't really care how it impacts others. That's how it's come across to me in the past.
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I don't really care because I am free. I'm doing this in faith so I can do it as often and as much as I want to.
43:33
But I preached Romans chapter 15 a couple of weeks ago and it really impacted me so much.
43:40
And I want to start with the passage that's on our paper,
43:46
Romans 14, starting in verse 13. And we'll hear the verses that are used to exercise our freedoms.
43:58
But then there's also the other half, the other balance of this that I think is missing.
44:07
Starting in verse 13. Therefore, let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this, not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
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I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean. Nothing is unclean.
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I can eat, I can do whatever I want in itself. But to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him is unclean.
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For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer working according to love.
44:36
This is so powerful. Do not destroy with your food something so simple as food for whom
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Christ died. Therefore, do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil.
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For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking. That's not what it's about. But righteousness and peace and joy in the
45:00
Holy Spirit. For he who is this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
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So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
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Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
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It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything by which your brother stumbles.
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Now listen to verse chapter 15. Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves.
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That's a big gist of what he's talking about in chapter 15. Christ didn't even please himself, but he took the reproach that was intended for God on himself.
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So why can't we take that reproach and sacrifice our freedoms that we are so proud that we have for the bill, not just the building up, but not to destroy the work of God.
46:26
That's one thing that I that I have a hard time understanding how it's we're so quick to embrace our freedoms, which they are and we are should do gladly.
46:38
We should practice gladly in faith to glorify God. There's no condemnation on that, but when it comes to a situation where we can destroy the work of God and tear down our brother over a food or a drink, any liberty that we have, chapter 15 says that we are to bear it.
47:11
To bear it. And that was so powerful to me. I think that parallels a little bit with the way
47:19
Galatians ends with bearing one another's burdens. Yeah. Yeah.
47:28
So I'll say this. We have to be careful not to let, as R .C.
47:38
Sproul would put it, the tyranny of the weaker brother rule over the church at the same time.
47:46
Absolutely. We should bear one another's burdens. Absolutely. We should bear all things.
47:53
So I'll give you an example. We have a small group on every other
48:01
Sunday after church at our church. And actually, one of the members is in the comments.
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Lino, what's up, bro? Good to see you here. Glad you made it, man.
48:13
So we have a small group on Sundays, every other
48:19
Sunday. And one of the guys that comes, he struggled with alcoholism.
48:25
Now, some of us are okay with drinking. It's not a problem for us. We've never been drunk. We've never, whatever.
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But you know what? We just don't have alcohol around ever because we know what a huge temptation that might be for him.
48:41
See what I'm saying? And so we bear, I mean, that's not really much of a sacrifice, honestly, if you can't even do that.
48:48
I mean, I would kind of stare at you judgingly, but not really. But I'd be like, you know, you really can't stay away from alcohol that badly that for the sake of your brother, you can't give it up for like three hours, four hours.
49:03
Anyway, whatever. But on the other hand, we can end up in things where legalism is rampant.
49:13
And so everything that the weaker brother wants to do, right, is imposed on other people.
49:21
So this is not something that happened to me. But I heard of this story where like, this was a relatively new believer.
49:30
And she came into a church. Long story short, she divided the church because everything was a problem for her, right?
49:38
Everything, everything. And so it was like, you know, the carpet was not the right color.
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The pastor should not be using examples of his personal life because he should only be preaching the word.
49:52
I mean, everything was an issue with her. And a lot of people got into really ugly fights over this lady, because some of them were saying, well, look, she's a new
50:03
Christian. She's still learning and we have to bear with her, right?
50:11
Let's try to do what she's asking because she feels more comfortable with it and to make her feel more comfortable. Well, long story short, like I said, some people ended up kind of taking her legalistic positions on everything and ended up being that that church actually had to split.
50:27
Some people went and stayed with the original church. Some people went and established a new church. And it was because they, in retrospect, right, some people that handled that not the best way are telling me the story.
50:39
And they said, in retrospect, we shouldn't have let her have everything just because she's the weaker sister, right?
50:48
In this case, we should have probably sat down with her and explain to her that, hey, some things are a matter of conscience and this and that.
50:56
So there's a balance to be had, right? We must bear. We must be willing to bear sufferings or inconveniences or whatever it might be for the sake of our brothers and sisters.
51:09
At the same time, we shouldn't just let the tyranny of the weaker brother again to just rule over everyone.
51:19
I mean, because that's that's not correct either. Does that make sense? I'm glad that you brought that up because I've heard that argument before.
51:27
And I'm not, I would be glad, I would love for somebody to show me, I'm not saying it's not in there,
51:32
I would love for somebody to show me where in scripture that that principle is brought out.
51:38
In that story, I'm glad that you used the word divide and divisive because I don't think that, because I've heard people use that quote, we don't give in to the tyranny of the weaker brother, to flaunt their freedoms.
51:56
I've seen that happen. I mean, to give even a more recent example, you had all the churches that divided over masks.
52:05
I don't see the tyranny of the weaker brother really the issue.
52:11
The issue ultimately was her divisiveness. Now we do have scripture on that. I would agree with you on that,
52:18
Rob. And you said they finally come to the conclusion, we should have dealt with the divisive person.
52:27
Yeah, the pastor should have been pastoring in that situation. In all honesty, there should have been a time when you said,
52:33
OK, look, I understand some things.
52:39
You used alcoholism. We can continue with that if you want to. We are aversion to this, but that has nothing to do with the carpet.
52:51
That has nothing to do with the days that we meet. That has nothing to do with any other ordinances that were practiced.
52:57
Right. I mean, because whether or not, I mean, I'm Church of God and we teach abstaining from all substances that are altering alcohol, cigarettes, tobacco in any kind of shape.
53:13
Not to say that it's it's quote unquote sinful, but we teach that we abstain from all of that because of the slippery slope nature of it.
53:27
Right. And we can talk about that another time. The fact is that it all things are permissible.
53:37
The next question we're not going to get to it says it, but not all things are expedient. But some things, yeah, you can do some things as a
53:45
Christian that don't make it good for you. Right. That doesn't that doesn't make it something that is. Yeah, it's not altogether what you should be doing.
53:53
For instance, if you take things like Timothy's drinking wine for his stomach sake, there was a reason for that in Scripture.
54:00
Right. There's evidences all throughout the New Testament where Jesus and his disciples were seen either drinking wine or turning water into wine or what have you, and had a bad reputation among other people because of that.
54:16
Now, I'm not insinuating in any in any regard that Jesus did anything wrong that Jesus ever seen.
54:22
I'm not saying that. However, you do realize that as a
54:28
Christian, you are the most opposing person in your life that you are.
54:36
You are constantly under the microscope in every regard and everything that you do. And you can you can stick your head to sand and pretend like that doesn't happen.
54:44
But that will be people who will judge their relationship with God sometimes based on your their your and their interpretation of what your your relationship is with God.
54:55
You know, I used to not believe that until, you know, you put a title in front of your own name and then you watch how people will take the words that you say and try to justify things that you didn't say that are just shortcomings in their own life.
55:15
And they'll use you and your examples. This is some kind of a bolstering statement in their own life.
55:20
Right. Like I don't I don't I don't use tobacco.
55:26
I don't I don't recommend anyone use tobacco. I used to. I used to drink. I don't recommend anybody drink, but I used to drink.
55:33
I could see. Oh, I could just see the the comments that I would get at work if for some reason or another somebody was to lay a can of tobacco on my desk in the morning and somebody think it's mine when
55:47
I walked in. You know what I mean? It's all it would take is somebody sitting a can on my desk.
55:53
You wouldn't believe the friction I'd get over that, you know, and then not even being mine.
55:58
You understand? So you can you can pretend if you want to that the world isn't paying attention to what you're doing, but but they are.
56:12
I think part of the qualifier for the difference between the weaker brother and the charity of the weaker brother honestly comes from the focus of the text, because so much of this language is honor
56:25
God, glorify God, edify one another. I don't see how carpet color becomes an edifying thing.
56:33
Just to use that example, I don't see how the debate over alcohol. I can see that being an unedifying thing, depending on who we're talking about, different crowds, different.
56:46
I read the comment section sometimes on Twitter, and you can tell the ones that are concerned with edification, the ones that are concerned with imposing an authority structure.
56:57
Sure. But the focus. Yes? I was just gonna say you're you're hitting it right on the head, and I think the way that we that we actually walk this out, because how do we walk out our
57:12
Christian liberty with someone else, and I believe you you were just starting off before I just interrupted you, that there is a way for edification to try and bring a brother along, to be like, hey, look, this is a weaker brother, because we're always going to view ourselves as the stronger brother.
57:36
I mean, are you kidding me? That's just the pride of our heart.
57:42
Um, but to guide them. Yeah, says the humble Baptist, you know,
57:51
I have got my certificate, right? I wouldn't brag about it.
57:59
I'm too humble. Um, but we're to talk about it with somebody in a way that is not going to be destructive, right?
58:12
Because the the point of the text is to protect our weaker brother, right?
58:20
It's to encourage him to to not cause him to doubt Christ, right? Even though the things that he's doing,
58:26
Paul's very clear that you can eat the meat, right? That, you know, it's those that are weak in the faith that are eating vegetables only, as Steve Lawson says.
58:38
But nonetheless, he says, protect the weaker brother. And so we have this in Scripture, because the main care is that of your brother in Christ.
58:48
It's that of your sister in Christ. You know, I have many, many, many family members that I have a lot of different views on whenever it comes to our major framework, whether we're covenantal or dispensational or Bible versions.
59:07
90 % of my family is King James only. You know, is this something that I'm going to hammer my differences and start talking about, you know,
59:18
Erasmus and Stephanas and all the other things that I'm talking about? No, it's not, because that would be counterintuitive if it's not done in the correct way.
59:30
So I think it's, you know, a little out of context, but it's speaking the truth and love, not speaking the truth is love.
59:38
Right. So there's a way to edify. There's a way to go about it. Solid, solid.
59:47
Rob, I don't know if you wanted me to answer the question you asked me, or should we save it for the next time?
59:53
Yeah, I would love for you to. And if you want to wrap this up and share the gospel, and if anybody, does anybody have any last thoughts before Jay answers the question and shares the gospel?
01:00:07
Good to go. All right. Well, Jay, if you don't mind, I'd be honored if you would do that.
01:00:14
And Troy, would you close us in prayer after he finishes? Yes, sir. Good deal.
01:00:20
So real quick, just to answer the question. So you asked me, where is the text that supports the idea of the tyranny of the weaker brother, right?
01:00:31
I would argue that there's a lot of places that we can go to, right? Whether it's, you know, different scriptures about being divisive and things like that.
01:00:42
But even the text that we were looking at just now, Romans 14, right?
01:00:47
It says, as for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
01:00:53
One person believes he may eat anything while the weak person eats only vegetables.
01:00:58
Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.
01:01:12
So that text is showing what I was saying in the beginning, right? Where both sides, right?
01:01:18
Both sides need to find balance, and need to love one another as Christ has loved them, right?
01:01:26
So on the one hand, whoever the weaker brother is, right? We might have arguments about who that is.
01:01:34
But we should not be quarreling over opinions. We can have our discussions, we can have our talks about why
01:01:42
I think this way, or why you think the other way, or whatever it might be. But when you start imposing, over -imposing what you believe ought to be done over other people, that's where you're crossing that line, right?
01:01:54
In that case, you might be the weaker brother in that moment. And I would argue the text is telling you, hey, come on, don't do that.
01:02:02
If we read the New Testament, it's pointing us towards unity in Christ, right?
01:02:08
It doesn't mean that we're not going to have differences, and it doesn't mean that those differences aren't important, right?
01:02:14
We are going to have differences, and they matter. But at the end of the day, right, to give you a very, very real -life example,
01:02:24
I appreciate Big John, because Big John, I mean, even today, right?
01:02:29
He mentioned how we differ on some things, right?
01:02:35
But he still calls us brothers in Christ. I still call him my brother in Christ. And we differ on many things, and that's okay.
01:02:44
They matter, and we can hash them out and have conversations about them. John knows that I've called him to talk to him about certain things, and that's okay.
01:02:53
He's still my brother, and I'm still his brother. That's the point, right? It's not to lord over what
01:03:00
I think. It's what I think. No, but in love, if I think what
01:03:07
I'm doing is correct in love, I'll try to, you know, maybe lovingly convince my brother, but he's still going to be my brother if he walks away unconvinced.
01:03:16
Does that make sense? And so, that kind of actually is a perfect gateway for the gospel, right?
01:03:22
So, we've been talking about Christian liberty.
01:03:28
We've been talking about being slaves to Christ, being slaves to sin. The fact of the matter is that every single one of us is born a slave to sin, right?
01:03:39
We've inherited that nature. We are a people who have sinned against our
01:03:45
Creator. And when the day of judgment comes, the day that you die, you will stand before that Creator.
01:03:54
The question is, what are you going to do to justify yourself? Because He has given us standards by which to live by.
01:04:02
Not a single one of us can say, oh yeah, I kept those standards perfectly. You know, if you've ever lied, if you've ever, you know, think of it, name it, you know, you've done it at some point, or even if you've thought it, right?
01:04:15
Like Jesus said, whoever hates his brother in his heart is guilty of murder. So, you've murdered in your heart.
01:04:23
So, we are all guilty of different sins. And no matter how much good you do, you could choose, you could say, well, today
01:04:30
I'm just going to do everything perfectly from now on. First of all, you can't do that. But even if you could, that doesn't erase the fact that you've done what you've done already.
01:04:40
You can't erase it. The good news is that there is one who can erase it.
01:04:46
There is one who died for all that would believe in Him. His name is Jesus Christ. He paid on that cross.
01:04:54
He suffered on that cross. He died on that cross so that whoever believes in Him will not be condemned.
01:05:01
But whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. His righteousness is given to you as a gift through faith.
01:05:09
God's grace through faith. You receive a righteousness that is not your own.
01:05:16
And you can stand before God on the day that you die, on the day of judgment, with boldness and with security, knowing you have an advocate with the
01:05:26
Father Jesus Christ, the righteous. Not because of anything good you've done, but because of what
01:05:31
He has done for you. So what you need to do is simply repent of the sin that you've committed.
01:05:39
Admit to God, God, I can't do this. I can't keep your commandments. I can't keep your moral standards.
01:05:45
Please help me. Please save me. You turn to Him and He will never turn you away.
01:05:52
He will never say no. You're beyond forgiveness. Turn to Him today.
01:05:58
Turn to Christ. Repent of your sins. Believe in Him. Follow Him. And you will see
01:06:04
Him in glory. Amen. Amen. Heavenly Father, Lord, I just want to thank you for the opportunity to be a part of this podcast tonight,
01:06:16
Lord, as we've went over Christian liberty and the measure of the law.
01:06:24
Lord, as we know that we're saved by grace through faith, Lord, we just ask that you would help us with the
01:06:34
Christian liberty that we have, Lord, that we would think about it appropriately,
01:06:41
Lord, that we would watch out for a weaker brother that you would lead and guide us through your
01:06:47
Holy Spirit and how to deal with these interactions with not causing our brother or sister to stumble, but Lord, to live in a way that is pleasing to you and to live for your glory and your honor.
01:07:04
God, as Jay just gave a beautiful gospel presentation, Lord, I would ask that if there's someone that is lost and undone and doesn't know you,
01:07:14
God, that you would use this to apply grace to their life,
01:07:20
Lord, that their eyes would be open from the gospel presentation that was just given,
01:07:25
Lord, and that they would be born again, Lord, that they would be saved. Lord, I thank you for these brothers that I have around me, even though we have many, many, many differences, but Lord, that they're my brothers, that we can talk, we can have conversations about these things, that they're not things that we have to hide under the rug, they're not things that we don't want to talk about, but that we can discuss them in brotherly love.
01:08:00
Lord, I just pray that you'd watch over us as we go throughout our weeks, Lord, that you would keep us safe and preserve us to the next time that we get to have another one of these amazing conversations about you, your attributes, and how you want us to live, and we'll just offer all of this up in the name of Jesus Christ, our
01:08:23
Lord and Savior. Amen. Amen. Thank you guys so much.
01:08:29
I appreciate each and every one of you. I appreciate all the guys on the Truth and Love Network. Jay, I wanted to say thank you for pointing out that verse.
01:08:37
I track right along with you, and I appreciate that. That was a good point that both,
01:08:46
Paul does point out, both are in sin when they're going in that direction, so I'm thankful that you pointed out that verse.
01:08:54
Wrapping things up tonight, we're thankful that you joined us and watched, and we hope and pray that it was encouraging to you and that God was glorified.
01:09:04
Hope to see you again in two weeks. We're going to look at covenant theology from all kinds of different perspectives, and we hope to see you then.
01:09:13
Thank you for joining the Laborers Podcast. Remember, Jesus is
01:09:18
King. Live in the victory of Christ, speak with the authority of Christ, and go share the gospel of Christ.