Christian Liberty- Laborers' Podcast

Welcome to the Laborer's Podcast. Thank you for watching. Tonight we are going to be talking about Christian liberty. What is it? Stick with us. Welcome to the.

Laborer's Podcast which is a part of the Truth in Love Network. Join us as together we strive to grow up together in all things into Christ. Subscribe and follow the Truth in Love Network on Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, Spotify, and iTunes.

Now let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast. Let's do that. Let's.

Join our laborers for tonight's podcast. We have Jay with us. We have Big John, Troy the Humble Baptist, and Tyler Noe, Bread of the Word Podcast. How are you guys doing? Great. Happy to be here. Not too bad.

In unison. That was great. I'm doing pretty good. In one accord. That's right. Yeah. So let's let's jump into it. Tonight we want to be talking about Christian liberty. There's different sides to this point.

There's the side of Christian liberty where or freedom in Christ where we are set free. Where before we were not able and didn't want to obey God. But now we are free and able to obey him and through the work of the Holy Spirit we can please him.

And then there's the other aspect of Christian liberty where there's things in this life that we can enjoy and glorify God by doing those things in faith and not be condemned. And to a degree shouldn't be condemned by others.

So there's different aspects of Christian liberty. By the way, the comment line is open. Let us know that you're watching. Say hello. Let us know if we can pray for you. Ask a question. Give us a critique.

We're all about that and we would love to hear from you. So any initial thoughts from anybody on Christian liberty? I'll say.

This much. We are slaves to something no matter what. That's true. We'll talk about.

That later probably. Right. Just something to tickle your taste buds.

There. Is that what you're saying? Yes sir. Just a little bit. And I have this strong.

Desire to say this tonight too. It really doesn't have anything to do with Christian liberty. But you know, just like most everybody else, we spend a good bit of time online and we're in certain circles.

Our circles overlap, but we're also in different circles. And we see different people. We follow different people online. And sometimes as some people gain platform, gain influence, they have a conviction about certain ways and styles of ministry.

There seems sometimes that it happens that it comes across as, if you don't do it my way, then you're wrong. Or a sense of looking down on people who are not able to do ministry the way that you do. It's.

Really fun when you follow people on other sides of that aisle and you get to.

Watch them fight in your feed. Yeah. And there's in-fighting going on, out-fighting going on. But I just wanted to encourage everybody to think about the passage that how we're all different parts of the same body and all parts are equally important.

Not everybody is called or going to be a street preacher. Not everybody is going to be walking and preaching at a murder.

Meal, abortion meal. That takes a very particular gifting. Yeah. That is not the whole.

Body. That's right. And you may be the one in your home holding a bottle while someone else is holding a megaphone. Yeah. And they're just as important. And we should treat each other as if they are, their work, their part in this body is just as important.

And they're loved by us and they're loved by God just the same. That was just on my heart this evening and I wanted to share that. So whatever your role is in the kingdom, you are important to God and you're important to us and we appreciate you.

Christian liberty, number one, what does the Bible teach about the relationship between Christian liberty and the law? Examples we have is Galatians 5 1 through 6 and Romans 6 14. Christian liberty and the.

Law. Well it might be a good idea to start by reading the text. Just to jump in there. So Galatians 5 1 through 6. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

I can't talk today for some reason. With the yoke of bondage. Behold I Paul say unto you that if you be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are justified by the law ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. The whole book of Galatians really.

Sort of mirrors that and Romans does as well. Which chapters in Romans that you have written down? I've got my phone pulled up. 6. Romans 6 14. 6 14. 14. Yeah. Pull it up. So this is the NASB. Oh we go back and catch a couple verses just to make sure we're reading it in context.

Start at 1 if it's okay with y 'all. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may increase? May it never be. How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you know or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death?

Therefore we've been buried with him through baptism into death so that Christ will be raised from the dead through the glory of the Father so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him and the likeness of his death certainly will we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection.

Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him in order that our body of sin might be done away with so that we would no longer be slaves to sin for we who died for he who has died is freed from sin.

How far do you want me to go? Verse 14. Now if we have died with Christ we believe that he shall also live with him knowing that Christ having been raised from the dead is never to die again. Death no longer is the master over him for the death that he died he died to sin once for all for the life that he lives he lives to God.

So even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let your sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lust and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead your members as instruments of righteousness to God for sin shall be your shall not be master over you for you are not under the law but under grace.

I think this passage really points out even though it's not specifically talking about where a lot of people go with Christian liberty you know I have the I have the freedom to partake in this that's my Christian liberty but this really speaks in my opinion to that in the sense that your your freedom even so consider yourself dead to sin but alive to Christ your freedom where you have been set free there is a there's a point to that and it's the point to Jesus Christ and it's a point to God and so thinking about your your liberties that you have now in the Christian faith there's a point to that this is a liveness that you have now in Christ and this Galatian passage Jay it made me think about the comment that you made at the beginning verse 1 in chapter 5 you talked about how we're we're gonna we're a slave to something and that's true and you know that because you because of the harmony of Scripture but here it says in verse 1 do not subject again to a yoke of slavery so so harmonize that you're what your.

Comment. And then verse 1. Sure. So actually I'm actually gonna go to Ephesians. Everybody likes Ephesians 2 8 and 9 and I usually tell people look just just read one more verse after that. Let me go ahead.

And because everybody reads 8 and 9 which is fantastic nothing wrong with reading 8 and 9 but you got a you got to finish the whole thing baby. So the thought there you go. So Ephesians 2 8 for by grace you have been saved through faith.

And this is not your own doing. It is the gift of God not a result of works so that no one may boast. Okay. So up until that point you see the freedom right. You've you've been saved by grace through faith.

Nothing you did no works whatsoever. You're free. You have eternal life. There's no more chains on you no more sin no more law. Right. Or so we think read verse 10. For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Okay why have we been saved by grace through faith. Actually before we even answer that question why or what have we been saved from from sin. Right. From our lack of love for God from our separation from God.

Right. And from our yoke of slavery. Right. Or I'm sorry yoke yoke of slavery to sin. Excuse me now that we've been set free from that there's a purpose it's not just to do whatever you want whenever you want however you want.

That doesn't really happen. Right. We're going to be slaves to something all the time. We have been created in Christ Jesus for good works. Kind of reminds me of Romans 331 which is do we then overthrow the law by this faith.

On the contrary we uphold or we establish the law. Right. We uphold the law. We say this law is good. Right in Romans 7. Romans actually explains this I think in my opinion better than any other book of the Bible.

We uphold the law and we say that it is good even though we can't keep it perfectly. We can't right. Romans 7 Paul says what I want to do. I do not want to do what I do not want to do. That is what I keep on doing.

But in that same passage also says that the law is good. We agree with the law that it is good. So I would say we read Galatians 5. But Galatians 4 actually really really illustrates what our relationship to the law and our Liberty looks like.

Right. It says this Galatians 4 I mean that the heir as long as he is a child is no different from a slave though he is the owner of everything but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father.

In the same way also we when we were children were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come God sent for his son born of a woman born under the law to redeem those who were under the law so that we might receive adoption as sons.

And because you are sons God has sent the spirit of his son into our hearts crying father. So you are no longer a slave but a son. And if a son then an heir through God. Ok. So let's make sense out of that one.

Right. Like at the beginning it says that as long as we are children we're no different from a slave. We have a father over us. In this illustration the father is the law. Right. But there comes a point where the law is no longer what is set over us.

We are given freedom. But what happens when we grow up. What is any child do when he or she grows up. Well the father is no longer above them. But what they've been taught by that father they continue to practice out of love for the father.

Now I don't want to overstretch the the illustration that that Paul is given us here. But the law has always been a teacher. The difference from the time that we were without Christ in the time that we are with Christ is that we have grown up into Christ.

And so we no longer have the law over us as our father. But the law is good as Paul said we establish the law. As Paul also said in Romans 3 the law is what we use in our Christian liberty to practice what we believe to to live our Christian life.

Right. Not as a weight on top of us but as a guide. Right. The reformed have the three uses the law. I like the third use of the law which is like a compass. Right. It's no longer our ruler. Law doesn't rule over us.

Law is our guide. Law is what we use in our liberty to express our love for God knowing that if we fail to keep it we're not under the law. Therefore we will not be condemned. So hopefully that makes sense like to.

Just add right. Just because our question what does the Bible teach about the relationship between Christian liberty and the law. And so just a good basic definition even though most of the listeners probably already have an idea about what Christian liberty is is going to be.

Christian liberty is not liberty to sin. Right. This is not exactly. You know this is not a Christian freedom to live the way you are. Paul argues against that as as Jay mentioned. Right. You know should we send more.

That grace may abound God forbid. You know this is the the law shows us. Its main focus is to show us that we need a savior that we cannot do it that we have that we have not made it to where we need to be.

Christian liberty are the things that are not set black and white in scripture to where we go. Ok am I sending. If I do this. Right. There there. There's not going to be a verse that we look at that says you know thou shalt do this or thou shalt not do this and so therefore left to Christian liberty.

Or they would be as Rob was talking about in the beginning things that people do do differently. So I think.

About what Jay's verse is reading there from Galatians about how the slave and the and the son while they live in the father's house there appears to be no difference out. I can't see that a little bit differently then then the way you broke that down.

I've actually never saw that the way you broke down so I was trying to kind of come. Are you saying. I think the way I've always looked at it is practicality of or the result of one being a slave and one being a son.

Both are in the father's house. I think that's I think that's the key part of it. Right. They were both in the father's house but only one of them had a relationship that was enduring. The other one doesn't have a relationship that's enduring.

A slave was on the timeline. Right. Unless he chose to be the slave forever in terms of Jewish culture. But let's say we're not talking about Jewish culture let's say we're talking about in a broader sense of the term since Paul is writing to Gentiles in this case.

And so there is no timeline for whenever these slaves would be given their freedom the fact of the matter is both of them are residents of the master's home but only one of them is is going to inherit that home.

And I think that that is the key difference between the two. Obviously the masters take takes care of both of them you know. But one of them he takes care of out of love and obligation and the other one he takes care of out of obligation.

Ultimately the law came so that it might make sin sinful. And sin doesn't become exceedingly sinful until there is a transgression against it. Right. So the law's purpose is to point everyone to the cross.

And after that. Yes you can. You can use the law as a guide. I suppose you can say the law. The law said you go this far and you stop. So that's at the very least that's a good starting point. Right. We discussed it's been several years ago we discussed the concept of tithing on here.

Do you remember that Rob and how the Old Testament law of tithing was laid out clearly in Scripture. And the question was as a New Testament believer are we instructed to live the same way. And it's like well.

No not. Not really. But if you look at what the New Testament Church did do they give a hundred percent of what they had to the Apostles. So it's it's not like grace slackens the reins of what the law was trying to do but rather grace is perfecting what the law could never do which was to drive us to be more like Jesus which does drive us to want to be like Jesus and to want to have this relationship with God.

It was because of hard hearts and sinful nature that God even give the law so what. What the law couldn't do grace and salvation.

Gives us the ability to do. I was gonna say we have to contextualize one aspect of the law there are there. So for example we must understand what the law is and what law is it. Right. So when when we're talking about the law as a guide we're talking about the moral principles behind the law that God has given right.

Because for example I'm still gonna eat shellfish I love shrimp and I'm not breaking any law not. Right. So we have to understand what the purpose of the law was and what each law is saying. So for example a lot of these right ceremonial and sort of separating kinds of laws like not eating shellfish or what kind of clothing Old Testament Israel was using those are things that we would say okay obviously you know we don't practice that anymore.

But why. Because it was given for a time for a purpose for that purpose was to separate right to keep the nation of Israel holy and separate eyes right. Now you can take things out of the laws that God gave and find moral principles that can still apply today again as a guide not as something that we have to strive for like for example okay I'm trying to think of that one that we had talked about like a while ago.

Okay so like building the parapet on your roof right. Back in the back in ancient Israel times people would build small wall around the roofs. Why. Because people hung out in the roofs and so it was to protect people from falling off the roof and dying.

Right. And if you didn't have some kind of protection for anybody that was in your house at that time and they fell off your house well you would be found guilty of their death for not taking the proper precautions right.

So we can take that and say okay well that means that I should take care of the people that are in my home that I should take the proper precautions to protect people in my home that is good and right to do.

Why. Because I love Jesus and one of the things that Jesus told me is to love my neighbors. I love myself and so I want to protect those around me right. That's a good and godly thing to do. But again you're not under that law itself.

It's a guide right. It's a teacher it can it can show you the way to live. Because you love Christ but you're not. You're not under it especially not under it in a sense of like you need to keep it in order to be saved.

Does that make sense. It does so.

Rob you're gonna say something. Well I was just gonna share this but I drew this out of the the book that Dan and I are reviewing on the truth of love podcast by Harrison Perkins the reform of theology.

And I drew this out from that book and and I hope that I'm not taking taking it. Oh oh what I'm getting from it is what at least sort of what he meant by. But I made two distinctions when it comes to the law I labeled it like a list and so we can give it all whatever adjectives we want you know it's it's.

We view it as a guide we view it as a compass we view it as you know whatever adjective whatever. However we want to view it it's still a list. This is these are character nature characteristics of God.

This is how this is a list that that helps us to understand who God is. It's a it's a list of things to go by Old Testament the the laws the list that he gave to Adam our father. And then you have the list laws in the New Testament the commands of Christ whatever they are.

It's a list right. And so before Christ I labeled it as a law list something that we had to follow or that to please God. It was a burden. But then after after Christ after regeneration after we've been born again I see it as a love list.

I can now I can now look at this list and and bear God's image by using this list to know him and to follow him because I love him. Not because it's a law that I have to keep. But it's because I love him.

Yeah I'm sorry so long to get there but no you're good. I love it I love it. And just to take that a step.

Further because where it gets really beautiful is the fact that we're still not gonna keep it at that point that even when it is the love list we still will imperfectly keep that law and yet God looks upon that imperfect obedience and sees the righteousness of Christ.

Amen. Yeah man. That he looks upon our attempts to be like Christ and it's candid to us as though Christ did all.

The work because he did let me let me lay out something from Sherman on the mount to kind of to kind of prove what I was trying to say. Jesus gives to be attitudes. And and he goes into you're the salt of the earth.

Salts become tasteless help come salty again your life the world. And then he says uh do not think that I come to abolish the law or the prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say until heaven earth pass away not the smallest letter stroke shall pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Whoever then annuls one of the least of the commandments and teaches others do so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever keeps and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For unless the righteous unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes of Pharisees you'll not enter the kingdom of heaven. Then he says you've heard that the ancients were told you shall not commit adultery.

And whoever commits adultery shall be liable to the court. Now this is very much a law. Your talk right all the way down to the court. But what does Jesus do with it. Does he loosen it the restrictions of the law.

No he does not. He does not he says. But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court. Whoever says your brother you good for nothing shall be guilty.

But for the Supreme Court whoever says you fool shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. And then you've heard it said you should not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who looks with lust at a woman who's already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So the intentions of the law was not to give loopholes for man to operate in the intentions of the law were to show man that that this is wrong. Yeah that's the substance of this thing is wrong. Not the letter of it is wrong.

Not just carrying out its logical end but the very thing that drives you to even begin this type of thinking is wrong. And and to that end as Tyler would say not one of us has kept it. So I'm not saying that liberty and the law don't have any kind of relationship whatsoever.

We're free from the condemnation that the law brings because we're free in Christ. But we're just that we're free in Christ. Meaning that as long as we're in Christ we're free of the consequences of breaking the law.

Amen. That doesn't. That doesn't give you unilateral liberty to say okay. Well the law has been paid for and the sin that associates with breaking the law has been paid for. Now I can break the laws without any consequence.

Now I can live and rank sin without any consequences because sin has been paid for undoubtedly there were some Gnostics that were doing that back in those days and Paul would say that their damnation was justified in teaching that nonsense.

So but it's a little bit of Brahman of freedom too. Yeah. It's kind of like you know you were you were dead. And you've been made alive. Why would you die again. Right. You're not. It's not to say that you're immune to death anymore.

You were dead now you've been raised alive now this is where I suppose some of our theology would differ how we viewed this. Most of you would agree that once you've been raised new life you can no longer ever fall back into sin in a sense that you can lose this salvation where obviously I disagree with you on that.

So I'll I'll forego that next statement I was going to say for the I had some verses ready and.

Everything for some time being of unity but I'm reminded of first Peter 224 where he bore our our griefs that dying to sin we would live under.

Righteousness. Yeah. So if I can bring us back to the distinction of Christian Liberty probably better. And the law so you know Christian Liberty if we're just gonna if I can just throw some things out there to kind of just these are some things that are often talked about with Christian Liberty.

Should every woman in the congregation wear a blue jean denim skirt down to her ankles every Sunday morning. Is it okay for you to be a vegetarian. Is this. You know. Should guys wear suits to church every Sunday.

Right. Like like these types of things whenever we think about Christian Liberty are not stuff that is sinful you know. But it's things that we can you know whether or not to celebrate feast days or holidays.

Right. Give up. Going to the Romans 14 passage that we'll look at here in a little bit it's things that are not sinful. Another one I think of is contemporary Christian music. You know. Are you are you a hymn singing church.

Or are you a contempt. You know are you playing you know Sovereign Grace music. Or you know modern contemporary songs. You know. And so it's operating this space of like okay we don't have something to say that this is sinful.

But yet you know we there's there's this area here where there's gonna be some people on one side and some people on another. And both are permissible within the bounds of Scripture. We can't we can't pull a verse out and go that's in if someone is saying I am you know well it's up to my Christian Liberty to live in adultery.

Then they are obviously completely misunderstanding. Taking this they're using that as a license to sin. And that is that. That's as far from the truth is what it can get. And I believe that is the point that we've been making.

However that's not Christian Liberty at all. That's idolatry. True enough. True.

Enough I think that personal convictions weigh a lot into whether or not somebody dresses a certain way versus not. I mean we we have to admit that there is in some kind of a line that we don't cross.

Right. Yep and and that I would say that's common sense. But any more common sense is a superpower so you really can't say that the the idea is you know what what honors God in your walk your talk your dress and your music should be the thing that guides you.

Just like we were talking about how grace does what the law couldn't. That same that same concept should guide you in this direction as well. Should it not. Right. For instance well you started with dresses.

So if if a person has some kind of conviction that they think that they need to wear long dresses I say wear them amen. You know I mean just let it just let it be what it is. If they don't have that conviction and they wear something something else whether it be still modest.

Yeah whether yes it's still modest. Again we're working into the understanding that this is Christian behavior right. We're not so wait I can wear a dress to church then. I mean that would be weird right.

I'm just gonna say up front word for a feminine J so I don't know that that the Scottish folks out there qualify but I think they wear dresses don't they know they got some manly name. They call it but it's a skirt.

It's a it's a skirt. It's a skirt anyway. My point is if if a woman J if a woman wants to wear long dress or a modest dress or britches or something to that effect. I whatever right I mean it is what it is.

It's not the end of the world. If a man wants to wear long sleeves everywhere he goes whatever that's if he wants to wear a suit and a tie that's that's that's between him and the Lord. If he doesn't want to wear a suit and a tie it's again that's between him and the Lord.

I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't show up in a tank top to church. You know what I mean rocking out some kind of a vintage 80s rock and roll band like Tyler would undoubtedly. But you had to be there. But I mean you know modesty is the is the rule is the word there when it comes to music I mean I think that we would we would agree on this podcast that we do not agree I mean we have established a couple things.

One that there is at least one Hillsong song Jay likes right. And he still can't believe they sung it King of Kings. Remember. Listen slander is a sin sir.

Did all right. So I mean we had the CCM talk. Yeah we've had that in any case at.

The same time you know if music honors God and edifies the church and it's it's sung about Jesus and doing so I don't have a problem with it whether it be a hymn whether it be a psalm whether it be contemporary at this.

So you know whether it be Southern Gospels even though I don't really care for Southern Gospel if it is even again I think that it's it's. What's the intentions behind it. Yeah.

That brings up Romans 14 23 whatever it does not proceed from faith is sin. Right. Yeah. And as as a people of God is it followers of Christ. I mean this this is really very simple. Right. Like we have Liberty we have Christian Liberty.

But can you really say oh yeah. I love Jesus Christ. I love everything about. I'm so thankful that he saved me this. Can you say that with a straight face. And then go on sinning deliberately and unrepentantly.

Not seeking the glory of God not seeking to honor him. I'm not saying struggle right. I'm not talking about struggle. We all struggle with sin. Sure. We all. We all backslide. We all. I'm talking about somebody that just continuously lives in unrepentant sin continually lives for you know the status satisfaction of their own flesh not for the glory of God.

I mean if you if you've been saved right. It's like the woman that poured perfume on Jesus right. Like she gave the most expensive probably the most expensive thing that she had for him because she recognized.

Wow. I've been forgiven for so much I love so much right. And it's like when you when you reflect on how much you've been forgiven. How can you not love Jesus enough to glorify him and everything that you do.

How can you not seek to fight against your sin and to do what is right. That doesn't make any sense to me in my mind. I can't imagine how anybody can say I truly believe in Jesus. And they don't fight against their flesh.

They don't crucify their flesh. They don't seek out the glory of God again. Not perfectly. We are all tempted by our flesh again. Romans 7 makes it abundantly clear. What I do not want to do is what I keep on doing.

Yeah. But it's a matter of the heart like what is it that you want to do. So whether it's wearing a dress for women women not me wearing a certain type of dress to church or or whatever music you listen to or whatever might be.

Are you overall you know are you. It does your heart lead you to say am I glorifying God with this. You know am I honoring God. And am I loving my neighbor as Jesus told me to do when I do the things that I do.

I don't know if somebody that doesn't really think about such things ever can say oh yeah. I totally follow Jesus. You know what I'm saying like. And that's that's a question for them right. Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith.

It's not for me to determine ultimately right now and see that brings up a really well hang on just just one thing that I got really quick because we have to understand this it's a lot of people want to say oh that person's definitely a heretic.

And that person's not saying this and this and that. And there might be a time for that. But I think we have to be real careful with that. Because that's not our that's not our job. Ultimately if that person's dealing with something that you think is sinful you know what that's what church discipline is therefore right and ultimately the Lord will judge.

But anyway I'm sorry Tyler go.

Ahead and see that brings up a really valid point. I think oftentimes with the Liberty discussions we kind of come back to this question of does God really care. You know a lot of us are coming from a more I guess fundamentalist background with that that rigidity in the the moral principles.

I'm not. I come from the opposite end of the spectrum. I came up in some of the mega churches where it was the opposite. It was oftentimes it was all grace and no law. And so everything is permissible.

And you had this pushback on somebody who is a little more regimented in things like if you were opposed to singing Taylor Swift during the worship set that was Taylor Swift. And I've been working through Job for like a year and a half.

Yes I was there. It was quite the day. Okay when the worship song uses baby in that particular way that might not be the best thing to do. But back on track here I'm. I've been working through Job for like a year and a half at this point.

And I've been in the slums lately. It's been brutal working through the words Eliphaz that there have been a couple times reading it where I've been. I want to slap this guy but in Jesus name I want to lay this dude out like what were you thinking man.

But he asked this question actually in chapter 22 he says is it any pleasure to the Almighty that thou art righteous. Is it gained to him that thou markest. I was perfect. He literally asked Job what does it matter to God if you obey him.

And I think oftentimes that's where we land with discussions about law and Liberty is does God really care if I get a tattoo or not. Does God really care if I drink here and there. And we're told he does.