September 10, 2021 Show with David J. Engelsma on “Hyper-Calvinism & the Call of the Gospel”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 10th day of September 2021.

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I have returning to the program today one of my most fascinating and learned guests.

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His name is David J. Engelsma, who is an author and who was the professor of dogmatics and Old Testament studies for 20 years at Protestant Reformed Seminary in Granville, Michigan, and emeritus professor since the

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Synod of 2008. He was the editor of the Standard Bearer magazine from 1988 to 2002, and he is still a lecturer and preacher touring in North America and throughout the

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British Isles on behalf of the British Reformed Fellowship, which is devoted to the spread and defense of the

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Reformed faith in the United Kingdom. Today we are going to be addressing a very controversial issue.

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It's an issue that I may be at certain points in disagreement with my own guest, and saying that I may also, for the majority of the program, be in full agreement with him.

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It's an issue that does divide even Reformed Brethren today, and the issue is

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Hyper -Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel, an Examination of the Well -Meant

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Offer of the Gospel, and it's the latter part of this discussion identified in the subtitle, the well -meant offer, that is the bone of contention amongst

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Reformed Brethren, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iantrop and Zion Radio, David J.

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Engelsma. I appreciate my being with you again, and particularly that I may discuss with you, and for the benefit,

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I trust, of your worldwide audience this particular, and as you have indicated, controversial issue.

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Yes, and although what we are going to be addressing today, in regard to the well -meant offer, or a denial of it, by Professor Engelsma and his denomination, the

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Protestant Reformed Church of North America, I must say that although it is considered a unique teaching amongst the

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Protestant Reformed denomination, there are men outside of that group in different denominations and Reformed fellowships that agree with him on this.

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I know personally a seminary professor who is quite well -known.

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I'm not going to identify him by name because I haven't checked with him before the program to see if he is still in agreement with Professor Engelsma over this issue, but he is a well -known seminary president, a

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Reformed seminary president, and a number of very well -known authors have gotten their doctorates from this seminary, and so this is not something that is entirely unique to the

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Protestant Reformed denomination, this denial of the well -meant offer. But, hyper -Calvinism is a subject in and of itself that evokes disagreement amongst those in the body of Christ, and even fellow

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Calvinists, and in fact, one thing that I can agree with you on right away,

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Professor Engelsma, is that I reject the charge against you and the

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Protestant Reformed denomination as a hyper -Calvinist institution, or you being a hyper -Calvinist yourself.

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I reject that. I agree with you that that term is being misused in your case and in the case of your denomination, but there are not only different definitions for hyper -Calvinism, but there are also different kinds of hyper -Calvinists that I think are accurately labeled as such.

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You have among extreme many, I'm not going to say all, but many in the primitive

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Baptist denomination, or fellowship, who are hyper -Calvinists.

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They so remove man's involvement in the salvation experience that they don't believe the preaching of the gospel is used by God at all to bring lost souls to Christ.

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They believe that the preaching of the gospel is merely to comfort the sheep when they discover who it was that saved them, and so on.

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They do not believe that God uses any earthly means to save the elect.

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In fact, they believe in a very broad understanding, a very liberal understanding, of who will be in heaven.

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They include in that number those that remain in the Roman Catholic Church and even people in pagan religions who could be among the elect without ever coming to understand the true gospel.

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So that's one end of the spectrum, and you also have many within the Netherlands Reformed denomination who have an opposite understanding but are still hyper -Calvinists in that they believe that the number of the elect will be comparatively extremely microscopic.

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In fact, you can have large congregations, extremely large congregations in that denomination, even over a thousand, where only a handful of people receive the

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Lord's Supper because they are the only ones that are convinced they are of the elect. But having said that,

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I would like Professor Engelsma to define hyper -Calvinism as he understands it.

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That is the important issue in regard to our discussion.

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But I want to respond, first of all, to your statement that there are notable theologians in other denominations than the

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Protestant Reformed who reject the well -meant gospel offer and are in agreement with the book in which

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I explain the charge of hyper -Calvinism against the Protestant Reformed churches to be entirely false.

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The foreword to the book or the introduction to the book, which is the content of our conversation today, as I understand it, my book

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Hyper -Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel, the man who wrote the introduction or foreword, was none other than Dr.

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John Gerstner. Yes, one of my great heroes of the faith who I had the privilege, while he was still with us on this planet,

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I had the privilege of seeing and hearing him preach in person multiple times and am very thankful to God for that.

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In fact, he was very instrumental in forming my understanding of the Reformed faith and was a very significant and probably the most significant mentor to Dr.

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R .C. Sproul. That's correct. Dr. Gerstner in his foreword expresses agreement with me and with the

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Protestant Reformed churches on this particular issue of hyper -Calvinism and the Call of the

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Gospel and bewails the fact that we unjustly are called and regarded as hyper -Calvinists in the

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Reformed and Presbyterian community. Yes, in fact, he actually brings up or brought up, since he is with the

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Lord now in eternity, he brought up his disagreement with the well -meant offer in his book,

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Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, which was a critique of dispensationalism largely.

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That indicates that the position that I'm going to be defending today may not be dismissed out of hand as out of bounds for a

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Reformed or a Presbyterian theologian or believer. Let me say something about the book, first of all, for the benefit of the audience.

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It's in its third edition now, having originally been published in 1980. In general, it's a description of hyper -Calvinism in defense of the rejection of the charge that is made of hyper -Calvinism against the

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Protestant Reformed churches and against myself, and it is a warning against the very real danger of hyper -Calvinism.

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In connection with setting all of this forth, I point out that the rejection of the well -meant gospel offer, rather than being hyper -Calvinism, is in the tradition of Calvin and other outstanding, noteworthy defenders of the faith in the

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Reformed tradition, many of whom I quote to indicate the truth of my contention that what the

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Protestant Reformed churches stand for is an honorable part of the tradition of the Reformed faith.

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But now to the question that you have raised, which is all important in our conversation today, what is hyper -Calvinism?

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Hyper -Calvinism is the doctrine that results in the refusal to preach the gospel of grace without discrimination to all and sundry who come under the preaching of the gospel.

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Hyper -Calvinism contends that the gospel of grace is to be preached only to those who show themselves to be elect and regenerated people.

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To the others, all that is preached is the law and condemnation.

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That is the theological and accurate definition or description of hyper -Calvinism.

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Hyper -Calvinism does not have to do with the issue of whether this gospel of grace, which is to be preached indiscriminately, is in fact

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God's grace to all in the audience, the reprobate as well as the elect. It is a contention that the gospel is not to be preached to all.

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I may say right at the outset that the position of the Protestant Reformed churches is emphatically, and our practice bears this out, that the gospel of grace is to be preached to everybody without discrimination.

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Those who may in the end prove themselves to be reprobate unbelievers, as well as to those who show themselves by faith to be elect children of God.

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We are not hyper -Calvinists in any true sense of the word or of the definition.

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Unfortunately, many in the body of Christ, many professing evangelicals who are outside of the

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Reformed faith, call any Calvinist a hyper -Calvinist, which is somewhat humorous in the irony, because if they despise

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Calvinism so much, they have no need to add hyper to it. It's kind of odd that they would insist on using the phrase hyper when they call us hyper -Calvinists, just for believing in the five points of Calvinism, especially limited atonement, or as it is also called particular redemption and definite atonement.

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But they insist on using that label, many of them, even though they clearly despise

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Calvinism in and of itself, as it has been historically taught, not only in the institutes, but in the creeds and confessions of the

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Reformed faith. And that exactly takes us to the fundamental issue within the

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Reformed community itself, and I include by Reformed community the Presbyterian community and the community of Calvinistic Baptists.

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The charge hyper -Calvinist is leveled against churches and theologians, and I refer particularly to the

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Protestant Reformed denomination, for our teaching that the preaching of the gospel is not grace to all hearers in the audience, but that God is favorably inclined toward and exercises and displays and bestows his grace in the preaching of the gospel only upon the elect in the audience.

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For teaching that, which is obviously in harmony with election, particular redemption, and irresistible grace, the

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Protestant Reformed churches are charged with being hyper -Calvinist, when in fact this doctrine that God is gracious in the preaching of the gospel only to the elect in the audience, the charge is raised of hyper -Calvinist.

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The charge therefore is mistaken, illegitimate, and unjust.

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The gospel is to be preached to all indiscriminately. Christ is set forth as the only

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Savior. Man's great need of the Savior is set forth in detail.

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The promise of God is announced that everyone who responds in repentance and faith will be received and blessed and saved by God.

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But we contend that that preaching, which is indiscriminate, is nevertheless effectual only in the elect in the audience, which of course we do not know, but God does know, so that God in the preaching of the gospel is particular with his grace as he is in predestination and in the doctrine of the atonement.

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The charge hyper -Calvinist against us for teaching these fundamentals of the Reformed faith is therefore illegitimate and unfair.

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Well, let's move on to a definition of the most controversial issue in our discussion because this is the key area that will divide our

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Reformed listeners. That is the well -meant offer. Sounds tame and safe enough.

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What's wrong with this well -meant offer and what is it? The well -meant offer is the teaching that in the preaching of the gospel,

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God on his part, with a gracious attitude toward all who hear the gospel and with a desire to save all who are in the audience, reprobate as well as elect, well -meaningly offers salvation and Jesus Christ to all in the audience.

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The key elements of the doctrine of the well -meant offer are, first of all, that God on his part loves or is gracious toward all in the audience with a desire to save them all.

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And second, that in fact, in the preaching of the gospel, he makes an effort to save them all by offering to them salvation with the desire that they respond favorably.

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That was the doctrine that resulted in the separate existence of the Protestant Reformed Churches from the

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Christian Reformed Church in 1924. The leaders of what proved to be the

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Protestant Reformed Churches contending that the well -meant gospel offer is contrary to the

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Reformed faith or Calvinism as the Reformed faith is expressed in the canons of Dort and in the

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Westminster Standards. But the well -meant gospel offer was also adopted by the

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Orthodox Presbyterian Church in 1948, which resulted in the ouster of Gordon H.

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Clark, who refused to subscribe to the well -meant offer in the sense that in the preaching,

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God has a sincere desire to save all and goes to work in the preaching of the gospel to accomplish that end.

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That is the well -meant gospel offer. So, if you don't mind repeating so we really get this clear, when on the one side, on the earthly side, since we as Christians who are human beings are limited in what we could possibly know about the spiritual condition and state of the heart of the humans that surround us, we are to passionately urge them to repent and believe upon Christ to be saved.

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But they who are promoting a well -meant offer includes the omniscient

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God in His desire to in love offer this one and only way to salvation to people that God knows.

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He formed out of the same clay as the elect. He formed out of the same clay to reprobate and they are vessels of wrath and yet He somehow is offering them in love a way to salvation.

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Am I getting this somewhat correctly? Yes, and the key word is graciously offering salvation to them.

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In a way, we do not object to the word itself, offer, which originally had the meaning of present.

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But our objection is to the notion that in the preaching of the gospel, God on His part graciously offers salvation to everybody, which would mean that He on His part has a gracious attitude toward everybody and He on His part has a sincere desire to save everybody in the audience.

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The denial of the well -meant offer has nothing to do with the preachers or the missionaries or the churches passionately exhorting everybody in the audience to believe in Jesus Christ and also urgently setting forth before all in the audience the promise of God that everyone who does respond in repentance and faith will be received by Him and will be saved.

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The preacher does that and ought to do that, passionately exhort everyone in the audience to believe and the

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Church of Christ, especially in her missions, but also in her preaching in the congregation, also with passion urges everyone in the audience to believe on Jesus Christ, exhorts everyone in the audience to believe on Jesus Christ.

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Denial of the well -meant offer has nothing to do with those things.

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But denial of the well -meant offer objects to the teaching that God on His part, in contradiction of His predestination and in conflict with the particular redemption of the cross, desires in grace the salvation of all who hear and on His part is attempting the salvation of all who hear.

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That we contend is a denial of what is familiarly called Calvinism, what

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I prefer to describe as the Reformed faith, and in fact that is a denial of and compromise of Christianity, which teaches that salvation depends upon the effectual will of God and that God in His predestinating counsel has determined the salvation of some only and has reprobated others.

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Yes, one thing that I do find interesting is that over the years

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I have heard many sermons defending the doctrines of sovereign grace, also known as Calvinism and the

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Reformed faith. I have heard many sermons and lectures where those who believe in the well -meant offer have simultaneously said that they reject the idea of the

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Arminian concept of God, equally desiring every single human to repent, believe, and join

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Him for eternity in heaven, when He knows that they never will and therefore

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He will be, according to that Arminian concept logically, an eternally frustrated

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God because what He has intended will not come to pass. He is desiring people to be saved and to be with Him for eternity that never will be.

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And that concept, it is interesting, it seems to be a self -contradiction how one could say that God will never be an eternally frustrated

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God as is the logical end of an Arminian understanding, and yet at the same time these same

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Reformed people believe in the well -meant offer. Do you understand what I am trying to say here? I do indeed.

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Isn't it significant, Chris, that those who advocate the well -meant gospel offer have to say those things that they still at the same time believe in a sovereign

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God? They are forced to say those things because whether consciously or unconsciously they realize they've compromised the gospel of salvation by grace alone.

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The well -meant gospel offer is not only seemingly in contradiction of the truth of the

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Reformed faith that salvation is by sovereign particular grace, but it is in contradiction of the doctrines of grace as is obvious to everyone.

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God cannot, unless He's at odds with Himself, have determined that some and some only will be saved as the objects of His saving grace and that Christ will die for some only and that the elect will be brought to faith by the almighty power of His Holy Spirit within them and at the same time and in harmony with that teach that God has a saving grace for everybody and desires the salvation of everybody.

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Those notions are in contradiction of each other. Yes, in fact, there are many who believe in the well -meant offer who do not have that approach when it comes to the death of Christ.

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They believe it applies when it comes to our duty to evangelize and that while we proclaim this gospel,

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God is lovingly desiring all hearing, even the reprobate, to come to Him and yet when it comes to their understanding of limited atonement, definite atonement, particular redemption, they seem to switch gears.

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Do you agree with that? Yes, and that's an impossibility. God's salvation and God's will for salvation cannot be abstracted from the redemption of Christ that accomplishes salvation.

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It necessarily follows that if God has a sincere desire for the salvation of all people,

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He can't have, I speak respectfully, He can't have salvation apart from the cross of Christ because salvation is realized in the cross of Christ.

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And that's why in churches that first commit themselves to the well -meant gospel offer, eventually they also move on to the error of universal atonement.

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And I'm going to give an illustration of that that's very near to my experience and knowledge as a

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Protestant Reformed minister. In fact, could you give that example when we come back from our first break because we have to go back to our first...

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I'll see if I can remember. Yes, sir. Yeah, please make a note of it because it's very important. I don't want you to forget that. If anybody has a question on hyper -Calvinism, on the well -meant offer, or if you have any question regarding the scriptures and the

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Reformed faith, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

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Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with Professor David J. Engelsma in our discussion of hyper -Calvinism and the call of the gospel, an examination of the well -meant offer of the gospel, right after these messages.

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Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Welcome back. This is Chris Sorensen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is

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David J. Engelsma. And we are discussing his book, Hyper -Calvinism and the

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Call of the Gospel, an examination of the well -meant offer of the gospel. If you have a question and you want to get in line, there are some people waiting to have their questions asked and answered already.

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But if you want to get in line, our email address is chrissorensen at gmail .com. Chrissorensen at gmail .com.

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As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. Right before the break,

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Professor Engelsma, you were about to give us, I believe, an illustration that involved the atonement, if I'm not mistaken.

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Yes, my contention is, and the conviction of the churches of which I am a member is, that the well -meant gospel offer, by, in view of its extending the saving grace of God more widely than the elect, is necessarily also the denial of limited or particular redemption.

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The argument is obvious on the face of it. If God sincerely desires the salvation of all men without exception,

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Christ must have died for all men without exception because there is no salvation apart from the cross of Jesus Christ.

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And I could appeal to a number of books that are being published lately in which confessing

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Calvinists are arguing for universal atonement on the basis of the well -meant offer of the gospel.

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But I want to appeal to an example that's very close to my own experience.

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The Protestant Reformed Churches were put out of the Christian Reformed Church for their denial of the well -meant gospel offer.

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For some years, prominent theologians in the Christian Reformed Church contended that that doctrine of the well -meant offer does not imply universal atonement.

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In the 1960s, a professor of theology at the Christian Reformed Seminary by the name of Harold Decker, against whom

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I have no anonymous, no personal anonymous, in fact, when I was active as a professor of theology in the

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Protestant Reformed Seminary, he invited me to give a guest lecture in his missions class.

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Nevertheless, Professor Harold Decker published a series of articles in a magazine called the

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Reformed Journal in which he bluntly and expressly contended for universal atonement, and did so expressly on the basis of the well -meant offer of the gospel.

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His argument in simple form was, if God sincerely desires the salvation of all humans without exception and carries that out in the preaching of the gospel,

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Christ must have died for all men without exception. A few years later, another theologian in the

39:36

Christian Reformed Church, Dr. Harry Boer, wrote a series of articles again in the same magazine,

39:44

Reformed Journal, denying double predestination, and again on the basis of the well -meant gospel offer.

39:52

Boer's argument simply was, if God sincerely desires the salvation of all men without exception, he could not have eternally reprobated some that would have been in conflict with the well -meant gospel offer.

40:07

Those are illustrations of the truth that the well -meant gospel offer is the overthrow of the entire

40:12

Reformed faith, such is the importance, in my firm conviction, of the issue of the well -meant gospel offer that we are discussing right now.

40:25

It's nothing less than implicitly and eventually explicitly the overthrow of the entire

40:31

Reformed faith, because the entire Reformed faith is the confession of particular sovereign grace.

40:40

In fact, the Reformed faith really is the only theological system that I am aware of that has a logical answer as to why millions of people over the centuries never heard the gospel preached.

41:00

There were nations where no missionary set foot on their shores for centuries, and all those people were born, raised, and died without ever hearing about Christ and his perfect work of redemption on Calvary and his death, burial, and resurrection.

41:22

And because of that, you have some in the Arminian realm who actually have opened the door for God and allowing them into heaven because of ignorance.

41:37

You even have a very popular author and radio evangelist, he may even be on television, who has created something called trans -dispensationalism, in which he says that people will have a second opportunity to embrace

41:59

Christ after their death. So this earnest desire to believe that God truly intended everyone to be saved, and then combined with the fact that millions perished without ever hearing this gospel, has drawn them into all kinds of bizarre conclusions and teachings.

42:18

It's a profound observation. There comes to mind what the psalmist says in Psalm 147, that God has been gracious to Israel and that he has shown his word to them as he has not done,

42:31

I'm quoting loosely now, to any other nation or people.

42:40

God's sovereignty and salvation is evidenced in that reality to which you've called our attention.

42:49

Would you say that a phrase that might refute this understanding, that God equally intends the salvation, or desires,

43:02

I should say, the intention, desires that we'll be saved, a phrase that might be used to get people to rethink that, maybe, maybe not, but that God doesn't try anything.

43:20

God doesn't try to do this or do that. He doesn't try to save your grandmother and fail.

43:28

He doesn't try to save your next -door neighbor and fail. He doesn't try to save you and fail. When God intends something, it happens.

43:38

And when God desires something, it happens. Am I right? What you are stating, in other words, is that God is

43:47

God. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Not a helpless, ineffectual savior, which would imply, again, as does all alternatives to the

44:01

Reformed faith, that salvation is dependent upon the will of the sinner. God tries, but the sinner decides.

44:09

That's not only objectionable to Reformed and Calvinistic Christians, that ought to be objectionable to everyone who calls himself a

44:18

Christian in whatever branch of Christianity he finds himself. We do have a listener who is choosing to remain anonymous because he is in a church that strongly opposes a rejection of the well -meant offer.

44:35

And this person says, When in history did the well -meant offer appear in Christian literature?

44:45

I have been telling my elders that this is a novel teaching that did not really appear on the scene until more recently in history.

44:55

But I have been told, not only is it biblical, but it has been taught throughout the ages of Christendom.

45:02

Who is correct here? I appreciate that question. In the terminology, well -meant gospel offer, the theory is of recent vintage, although not as recent as some might think.

45:19

That terminology occurred in the Dutch Reformed tradition as early as the early 1800's when there were solid

45:28

Reformed theologians who also took the position that the preaching of the gospel is not grace to all.

45:35

But as far as the reality expressed by well -meant gospel offer is concerned, the well -meant offer is very old.

45:45

We could originate it with Pelagius back in the year A .D. 400 against whom

45:51

Augustine took up the cudgels defending the particularity and efficacy of the grace of God in the preaching of the gospel.

46:01

Pelagius was condemned as a heretic by the very early Christian church. So rejection of the well -meant offer is of honorable parentage.

46:13

Then, the reality of the well -meant gospel offer was also raised by Erasmus against Luther at the time of the

46:23

Reformation in the early 1500's. It was really against Erasmus and his contention for a well -meant gospel offer that is a sincere desire of God to save all human beings that Luther wrote his book,

46:36

The Bondage of the Will. And, of course, Arminius taught and preached the well -meant gospel offer and that resulted in the confession, the

46:49

Canons of Dort, of 1618 and 1619. And I would urge, with all that is in me, that all listening to this broadcast who have a sincere interest in this issue and all ought to have it,

47:07

I would urge that they read the Canons of Dort. Because what

47:12

I am contending for, in my poor way, the

47:19

Canons of Dort expressed and approved in a great confessional manner and settles these issues for all those who are open to biblical proof and biblical arguing.

47:36

The Canons of Dort are obviously and powerfully opposed to the notion that God has a sincere desire for the salvation of all human beings and in the preaching of the gospel purposes or desires the salvation of all who hear.

47:53

The position that I am defending is credal for all

47:58

Reformed Christians and anyone who doubts that merely has to read the

48:04

Canons of Dort. Anonymous, please give me your full name and mailing address via email.

48:12

Obviously, I will not divulge that on the air since you remain anonymous. But send that to me so you can receive absolutely free a copy of the book we are addressing,

48:23

Hyper -Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel, an Examination of the Well -Meant Offer of the Gospel, by our guest,

48:29

David J. Engelsman. We want to thank the Reformed Free Publishing Association for providing us with these free copies.

48:37

And we also want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, a sponsor of this program, who are actually shipping out these books as they always do with the

48:50

Bible's books and other things that our listeners win when they send in questions. Thank you very much.

48:58

We have RJ in White Plains, New York. And RJ asks,

49:04

When it comes to the young rich ruler who rejected Christ's offer and command, it says that Christ loved him.

49:16

Does that mean we are to understand, even though the Scripture is never recorded, that the young rich ruler eventually came to salvation?

49:26

Or are we to understand that there are different levels of love that God has for humanity, just as a father has a different level of love for his own wife and his own children than he does for the other women and children in the congregation, in the neighborhood, and in the world?

49:49

First of all, with regard to the rich young ruler, the fact that Christ loved him proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that although he rejected the call of Christ initially, later on he was brought to faith and salvation.

50:08

Whomever Jesus Christ loves will be saved. And I might add that the tradition of the

50:16

Church going way back in Church history is that that rich young ruler was John Mark, the author of the

50:23

Gospel of Mark and the Scriptures. Now I'm not going to say that the tradition of the

50:29

Church is absolutely authoritative, but it is of interest that that was the tradition of the

50:36

Church, and in part because of what I contend now, that the love of Jesus Christ for a person is always effectual, sooner or later.

50:46

Therefore, the one who is loved by Christ will be saved. In the second place, this idea that there are different levels of love fails in the case of the example of the rich young ruler because Jesus Christ loves that rich young ruler in the context of salvation.

51:09

Christ brought to him the truth of the Gospel of salvation, and that was what he rejected originally.

51:15

In that context, Jesus loved him. He didn't love him in the context of giving him a glass of water or giving him more riches or promising him health for another ten years.

51:27

He loved him with regard to the saving love of Jesus Christ. In the second place,

51:33

I want to say that sometimes the argument is raised against the position that the love of God in Christ in the

51:45

Gospel is particular, that the argument is raised that God also has a love of a common grace.

51:56

That's really not the subject of our conversation today. In fact, it is, though, an important inclusion, and we'll briefly have you explain that when we come back because we have to go to our midway break right now because I do at least want to have a small part of the program on that because it is a fascinating issue.

52:19

If anybody wants to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

52:28

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Please be patient with us. This is the longer than normal break during the broadcast because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

52:38

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break right in the middle of the show so that they can geographically localize

52:51

Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida, and they do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things.

53:02

So while they are doing that, we are airing our globally heard commercials. Please respond to our advertisers, even if it just means thanking them for sponsoring the show, and send in your questions to chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

53:15

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with David Engelsma right after these messages.

53:29

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the

53:39

G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,

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Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

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John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.

54:02

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you

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September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is

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Supreme Over All. I'm Dr.

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Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net

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That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711

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That's 631 -696 -5711

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Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Engelsman on Hyper -Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel an Examination of the Well -Meant Offer of the Gospel I ask you to be patient with us as we have a couple of more important announcements first of all if you are a man in ministry leadership

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I got in a lot of trouble last year when a female minister in the most liberal wing of Lutheranism the

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Evangelical Church or Lutheran Church of America ELCA as it's called she plastered all over Facebook what a male chauvinist and anti -woman bigot

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I am because I only invite men to the luncheon but if you are a man in ministry leadership and you can get to Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Monday, September 27th 11 a .m.

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to 2 p .m. I'm urging you to please put everything aside rearrange your schedule and come to my

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon and this is a luncheon this year featuring the most powerful preacher

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I'm exaggerating about Dr. Mbewe's power in his preaching I would urge you to look him up on Sermon Audio or on YouTube in fact, he was one of the featured speakers at John MacArthur's Strange Fire conference a couple of years ago which was exposing and refuting the dangers of Word of Faith Pentecostalism and the excesses of the charismatic movement well, you've got to hear

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Dr. Mbewe's message I believe it was titled Are We Witch Doctors? as he compares the

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Word of Faith charismatics in Africa to the witch doctors because they are barely distinguishable from one another but Dr.

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Mbewe will be preaching and once again, I will be giving away many books, absolutely free brand new books that I personally select from many publishers across the

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United States and the United Kingdom who donate these books they donate to me a hundred copies of a book

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I select from each publisher so that every man in attendance can leave with one of those books so every man leaves with dozens of books absolutely free of charge this was a wonderful event that my precious late wife,

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Julie really founded and launched in the 1990s due to her love for men in the ministry and her knowledge that many of them are rarely treated to something that doesn't involve hidden agendas or ulterior motives therefore, this is not only a free luncheon but nothing, absolutely nothing is sold on the property when the luncheon is being held this is entirely a free treat for pastors to rest relax, be revived and refreshed and edified with an excellent message by an excellent gifted preacher to dine on excellent food and to leave with a heavy sack of excellent books all absolutely free so if you are interested in attending this just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line it's

01:14:24

Monday, September 27th 11am to 2pm at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania also folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves

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I am urging you, please go to iamsharpensionradio .com click support then click click to donate now we are in urgent need of your financial help because the coronavirus pandemic hysteria has really financially hurt many people in our audience because of the authoritarian way both the federal and local governments have responded to this and have gone way above and beyond their realm of authority to cripple the lives of many citizens financially so our giving has gone way down folks, please help replenish that which was lost go to iamsharpensionradio .com

01:15:17

click support then click click to donate now if you would like to advertise with us send me an email and as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what

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I believe I would be more than happy to help you launch an ad campaign because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars as well also folks always remember that one of the main reasons

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I launched this program in 2005 was to be a friend a helping hand an extension and a platform of the local pastor and local church

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I do not want to harm the local pastor and local church in any way including financially so please never give your church your own church where you are a member less money because you want to give us some money you know don't rob from your own church to bless

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I have extensive lists spanning the globe so I may be able to help you find a church no matter in the world where in the world you live so send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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but I need a church in the subject line I may be able to help you that is also the email address where you can send in a question to David J.

01:17:02

Engelsman as we continue our discussion on Hyper -Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel an examination of the well met offer of the gospel and before the break you wanted to at least briefly define and discuss common grace this may be one of the areas where we you and I have disagreement because I know it is your position and the position of the protestant reform church that the word grace should only exclusively be used in regard to the salvific benevolence of God whereas since the root of the word from what

01:17:43

I understand I am no Greek scholar but from what I have heard from people who are it merely means unmerited favor or even ill -merited favor we deserve hell but get a blessing and I would think legitimately not that I am unable to be convinced by you but I would think because of that that it would be legitimate to say that God extends his grace when it comes to the benevolence he shows by even extending long lives very often to the wicked giving them prosperity in their businesses giving them wonderful marriages and many wonderful children not always obviously but many many times that is the case so if you could explain what your definition is of common grace and why you have a big problem with it

01:18:36

May I come back for just a moment to the subject that we were discussing before the break and that's the well -meant gospel offer

01:18:43

I'd like to point out because it's very important with regard to this charge of hyper -Calvinism denial of the well -meant offer does not in any way make preaching indiscriminate passionate preaching impossible or difficult denial of the well -meant offer does not affect the preaching of the gospel so as to hamstring it the motivation for gospel preaching is the will of God to gather out of all nations and peoples his elect people among them and after they have been converted to strengthen them in the faith therefore denial of God's being gracious to all human beings in the preaching and desirous of saving them all does not affect the urgency and passion of the preaching of the gospel

01:19:45

I emphasize that because the impression is left or perhaps uh ignorantly assumed that if one denies the well -meant gospel offer he can't preach anymore and that notion then affects people's adoption of the well -meant offer as though the well -meant offer makes preaching possible whereas the denial of it makes preaching difficult or impossible

01:20:15

I point out that the motivation of preaching as I have said is the gathering and salvation of the elect scattered among all peoples and they are saved and uh brought to Jesus Christ by the preaching of the gospel that's one of the main motivations of the preaching of the gospel

01:20:34

I point out also that there is not a single example in the book of Acts which book describes the preaching of the apostles there's not a single example in the book of Acts of the apostles addressing an audience by saying

01:20:51

God loves you all and God desires to save you all and for that reason I'm preaching to you all and all of you ought to respond to the gospel in fact

01:21:00

I don't even think the word love is mentioned at all is it in Acts? I was not aware of that but the general framework of the preaching of the apostles was to set forth the great need of all human beings for Jesus Christ and then the setting forth of Jesus Christ is

01:21:17

God's savior of all who believe and then calling the audience to repent and believe adding the promise that all those who do repent and believe shall be saved that's the kind of preaching we ought to have today in harmony with the example of the apostles in the book of Acts now then with regard to common grace common grace really does not enter into this matter of the well met offer and the preaching of the gospel common grace is supposed to be a favor of God toward all human beings without exception that shows itself that expresses itself by bestowing upon them earthly material goods so I suppose one could embrace common grace without trespassing on the boundaries of the well meant gospel offer and its betrayal of the gospel of particular grace and that's exactly what the great

01:22:22

Dutch theologian Abraham Kuyper did around the turn of the century Kuyper wanted to get the votes of the people for running for prime minister of the

01:22:34

Netherlands he wanted the Roman Catholics in the Netherlands to join him and his party without whose votes he could not attain the prime ministership and in large part with that motivation he taught taught a doctrine of common grace which as I've described is the teaching of a material blessing of God now we do not deny the protestant reformed churches do not deny the obvious truth that God bestows good things upon those who are wicked many good things often more good things than he bestows upon his own people but the question is does

01:23:14

God do that as a blessing to them it certainly does not turn out to be a blessing because they are not thankful for these gifts and they don't use these gifts for the glory of God so that these good things that God gives them turn out to be for their increased suffering and damnation but the question is does

01:23:34

God give these things in his favor or does he give these things in such a way that they work out the greater judgment of those who receive them then we point to Psalm 73 the well known contrast between the wicked and the child of God the child of God sees that the wicked prosper with these earthly gifts whereas often the believer is plagued with diseases and shortcomings and starvations and family problems and what not more and that was a real problem for the psalmist until he went to the house of God and saw what the end of the wicked would be and he confessed that God with these good gifts that he gave them plunges them down to destruction whereas the believer is prepared for eternal life now in addition to that aspect of the matter of common grace an argument could be made that although one intends to restrict the matter of common grace to earthly things and earthly life and earthly fortunes often because the

01:24:46

Bible does indicate that the grace of God is one and indivisible the adoption of common grace invariably leads to a universal grace and that's the more objectionable aspect of that whole matter well thank you and we have a question from our very faithful and loyal listener and financial contributor

01:25:12

Grady in Ashborough North Carolina who brings up an issue that has been brought to my attention numerous times over the years and there is also quite a bit of debate and disagreement in the body of Christ and in academia even amongst

01:25:33

Reformed Christians Grady says greetings brothers it's my understanding that Dr.

01:25:41

John Gill one of Spurgeon's predecessors was a Hyper -Calvinist is this true and are there other well -known theologians who are or were

01:25:52

Hyper -Calvinists and I could tell Grady from first -hand knowledge that even amongst

01:25:59

Reformed Baptists which Dr. Gill was although he used the term particular

01:26:04

Baptist we have disagreements amongst

01:26:11

Tom Nettles and his colleagues some of his very dear close colleagues and friends Dr.

01:26:17

Nettles defends John Gill as not being a Hyper -Calvinist whereas some of those folks that he labors with and loves disagree with him adamantly on that but I was wondering if since he is a

01:26:32

Baptist I don't know how much Dr. Engelsmann knows about John Gill but do you have any knowledge on his theology enough to know whether or not you believe he was a

01:26:42

Hyper -Calvinist I acknowledge that my knowledge of John Gill is limited but according to my limited study of John Gill and reading about him by his critics my provisional judgment of Gill is that he was a

01:27:01

Hyper -Calvinist defended the Hyper -Calvinist theology there was a group of Baptist theologians in those days who were avowed

01:27:13

Hyper -Calvinists Strict Baptist I believe Strict Baptist yes they taught that the

01:27:18

Gospel of Grace as the Gospel of Grace is to be preached only to those who show themselves elect and regenerated and that the message for unbelievers and there was a message for unbelievers was a message of the wrath of God against them and their sins so that these they were obligated not to call all in the audience with the saving call the call whose content is salvation and against that the

01:28:23

Bible's teaching is convincing it seems to me in Acts 17 verse 30 we read that God commands all men everywhere to repent and in the conclusive passage on this issue of hyper -Calvinism strictly considered the conclusive passage is

01:28:47

Matthew 22 the first 14 verses where Jesus teaches concerning the call to the wedding feast of the king's son the king sends out his servants to call everybody that they come into contact with the word is called although the

01:29:06

King James version translates often bid and bitten I have prepared my dinner everything is ready come to the marriage that's the call of the gospel but many rejected that call even though they gathered some of them for a while in the company of the church some of them came without a wedding garment and they were banished to condemnation

01:29:32

Jesus sums up the parable of the wedding feast of the king's son many are called but few are chosen but Jesus teaches that the call comes to many more than are elected and these many more who are called but not elected are not called in the sovereign grace of God only the elect are called particularly with that saving call so the many who are called but not chosen perish but they are called that leads to the reformed position that there is a two fold aspect to the call of God there's an external aspect in which the call in the preaching comes to everybody who hears the sermons but there is an internal aspect to the call which is limited to the elect whom

01:30:29

God wills to save which call of the outward preaching is accompanied by the inward call of the

01:30:37

Holy Spirit that softens their hearts and draws them to Jesus Christ in faith and repentance just like it's explained pretty clearly in John chapter 10 with Jesus being the shepherd and only his sheep hearing his voice that's exactly right so the

01:31:00

Bible is clear and powerful against any tendency toward hyper

01:31:06

Calvinist error now I would like to say that I'd like to get pastor or should

01:31:14

I say Dr. Nettles back on my program so that he can give his side of that because as I said he is no hyper

01:31:21

Calvinist himself and he defends Dr. Gill as not being a hyper Calvinist so it would be interesting to hear him thoroughly explain his side because he is basically dedicated to history he is a historian and seems to have read everything that Gill wrote so will be interesting to hear his side but thank you

01:31:42

Grady and make sure we have your full mailing address because you have won a free copy of the book that we are addressing today by David J.

01:31:53

Engelsman Hyper Calvinism and the Call of the Gospel an examination of the well -meant offer of the

01:31:59

Gospel. We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County Long Island and Ronald says

01:32:10

I was wondering if you could exegete a portion of 2nd

01:32:15

Thessalonians 2. This is a perplexing passage to me because it seems to include both evidence that supports what you are saying and also evidence that in a puzzling way opposes what you are saying.

01:32:35

Let me start this by quoting from 2nd Thessalonians 2 in verse 9.

01:32:57

of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason,

01:33:03

God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.

01:33:19

Where this seems to support what Professor Engelsman is saying is that God clearly is not desiring in love to save all men, since some of them are being sent a delusion directly from him so that they believe a lie.

01:33:36

But on the other hand, it says right in these same texts that they refuse the love of the truth that would have saved them.

01:33:49

That appears to be teaching that had God not sent the delusion, they would have believed.

01:33:54

Can you help me figure this out? The text that is the concern of the caller is verse 10.

01:34:05

They receive not the love of the truth. Generally, that's an aspect of Scripture that teaches and emphasizes the responsibility of all those who reject the gospel of Jesus Christ when the gospel of Jesus Christ comes to them.

01:34:23

In that gospel is the truth, and they did not receive the love of the truth.

01:34:32

Now, that already indicates something about the sovereignty of God in the matter.

01:34:38

They didn't receive it because God did not give it to them. But there is in the gospel, and everyone who hears the gospel is confronted by that, the truth.

01:34:51

And they're calling to love the truth, and to love the

01:34:56

Christ who is the heart of the truth. And those who reject the love of the truth are held responsible for that, even though at the same time it was not the purpose of God to manifest that love in their hearts.

01:35:14

They had the external call of the gospel, which presents Jesus Christ as the truth, but they did not receive the internal call which, with the exhortation to believe on Jesus Christ, bestows the saving spirit that enables them to do that.

01:35:32

So there is, in fact, no opposition between the two truths.

01:35:41

They are in harmony with each other. One aspect of the truth is that everyone is responsible to believe it, to love the truth, and the other aspect is that everyone is responsible to believe love the truth, and the other aspect is that everyone is responsible to believe the truth to love the truth to believe the truth to love the to to love the truth to believe the truth to believe the truth to believe to believe the truth to believe the truth to believe the

01:37:28

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01:50:22

Great. Well, I want you, before we take any more listener questions and before we run out of time, to really summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today, why you think that these things are important that we're discussing.

01:50:38

Because in a day and age when many people, even many regenerate people, sadly, they want to leave the book learning up to their pastors, they think that these kinds of discussions are nothing more than intellectual conversations meant only to take place in the libraries of eggheads sitting around smoking cigars and drinking snifters of brandy.

01:51:10

But this is much more important than that, no matter what side of the equation on which you fall.

01:51:18

Am I right? With your implicit permission, I want to return to the question that was asked just before your break concerning 2

01:51:30

Thessalonians 2. Yes. Reference was made especially to verses 10 and 11.

01:51:37

And it was suggested that there might be something in that passage that lent itself to the teaching of the well -meant offer.

01:51:45

And I confess that I did not look at the context when

01:51:50

I answered that question. I had the outstanding Reformed theologian, Herman Hoeksema, for all of my seminary training, and among the other things he impressed on me was context, again and again.

01:52:03

When I was practicing preaching or theorizing in class, he would respond,

01:52:09

David, David, the context, the context. You can't understand the text apart from the context.

01:52:16

And during the break, my eyes fell upon the context in that 2 Thessalonians passage.

01:52:22

Immediately following the passage to which reference was made, you have this,

01:52:27

But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the

01:52:37

Spirit and belief of the truth. Positively, that passage sets forth that there are some who are beloved of the

01:52:47

Lord, and they are beloved of the Lord because God eternally chose them to salvation. And the implication is, with regard to those who perish, according to the preceding passage, they were not beloved of the

01:53:01

Lord, they were not chosen by God from the beginning, and that that is part of the explanation of their spiritual loss and death.

01:53:17

Then with regard to, I should add that in the verse 14, the verse that immediately follows the text

01:53:24

I quoted, the apostle writes, Whereunto he called you by our gospel to the obtaining of the glory of our

01:53:31

Lord Jesus Christ, so that the implementation of the purpose of God for the salvation of some whom he had chosen from eternity was a calling of them, and that's obviously what the

01:53:44

Reformed faith calls the internal calling, the calling by the gospel but accompanied by the regenerating and converting work of the

01:53:53

Spirit in their hearts. So there's an external calling, which is just the preaching of the gospel apart from the work of the

01:54:01

Spirit, and an internal calling. Now with regard to the comment you asked of me about what we've been discussing, in the first place, the importance of the truth that God does not well -meaningly offer salvation to all, but graciously calls some and some only in the audience according to his decree of election is that God receives the glory of salvation, and the impression is not left with the people of the church that salvation depends upon their acceptance of an offer that is made well -meaningly to all alike in the audience.

01:54:46

That's the implication of the well -meant offer. If God calls all alike in the audience with love for them all and with a desire to save them all, the implication is that the explanation why some are saved and some are not cannot be the particular love of God and the irresistible work of grace in those who are loved by God, because he loves them all alike and wants to save all of them alike.

01:55:14

And therefore, the only explanation can be that some respond to that well -meant offer by their free will, whereas others do not, so that the glory of salvation is the sinner's.

01:55:26

That's always the main thing in the Christian religion. Does God receive the glory of salvation?

01:55:33

That's what we're concerned about in our denial of the well -meant gospel offer. It robs

01:55:39

God of the glory of his great work in the saving of sinners. So that's the main message that I would like to sound with regard to this issue.

01:55:52

And of course, with regard to the error of hyper -Calvinism, it negates the important work of God of preaching the gospel to all and sundry, so that out of all nations the elect may be gathered unto

01:56:09

Christ and unto salvation. There's a dreadful implication of hyper -Calvinist false doctrine, and that is that the preaching of the gospel is hamstrung and limited.

01:56:24

And is it even possible to determine who should be the objects of the preaching of the gospel?

01:56:31

Who can figure out who are regenerated and converted people so that he preaches only to them?

01:56:37

The tendency of hyper -Calvinism is to preach to no one, particularly to preach to no one in the work of missions.

01:56:44

That great work is harmed by the hyper -Calvinist error. Yes, there have been great missionaries of history, great reformed

01:56:55

Calvinistic missionaries from history, who were having struggle and conflict with hyper -Calvinists, who basically didn't believe that there was a need to send the gospel to the pagan, and that they basically are just to get what they deserve, leave them alone, kind of an attitude.

01:57:17

An anecdote comes to my mind that fits in with this discussion. I don't remember the names offhand now.

01:57:25

Ryland comes to mind, but I'm not sure about that. In any case, a group of ministers were gathered at a meeting, and some older minister was proclaiming to them the duty of mission work, the duty to proclaim the gospel widely.

01:57:42

And a young, apparently hyper -Calvinist minister in the audience said, Sit down! If God decides to save a man, he'll do that without our preaching.

01:57:52

That was hyper -Calvinist error. Well, we are out of time, and I want to repeat the website of Reformed Free Publishing Association, who has brought this book into print, and other fine books, rfpa .org,

01:58:11

rfpa .org, Reformed Free Publishing Association, and you can get all the books discussed on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio at cvbbs .com,

01:58:22

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. Thank you so much, Professor Engelsma, for being, once again, a remarkable guest.

01:58:30

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write.

01:58:35

I hope you all have a very blessed and safe and healthy and joyful weekend, and Christ -honoring

01:58:42

Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember, for the rest of your lives, that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater