Jacksonville Pastor's Conference

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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona, this is the Dividing Line.

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The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence.

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Our host is Dr. James White, director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

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This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll free across the

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United States, it's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic, here is

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James White. And good afternoon, welcome to the Dividing Line on a Thursday afternoon, unusual time because I am safely ensconced in Owensboro, Kentucky, where I am lecturing for the

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Midwest Center for Theological Studies, the Reformed Baptist Seminary, and the

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Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies, all three schools cooperating together on a polemics module here in January.

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I guess the old term for this is a Jan Term class, we have folks that have driven in from quite a distance and had a lot of fun in the class so far, good students, really enjoying the opportunity to address general topics and apologetics.

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Last evening we addressed central issues in regards to Roman Catholicism, I'll tell you,

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I'll admit that YouTube has become quite a useful resource when you want to play clips of your former debates and former debate opponents and things like that.

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They have a real nice setup at MCTS, nice big screens, and we have about 25 people taking the class online, and they are able to ask questions and things like that, it's a real great setup.

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So we covered Roman Catholicism last night, we'll be looking at Mormonism this evening, and then

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Islam Friday night and Saturday morning, and then I'll be preaching at the church on Sunday and heading home from there.

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So we are doing this via Skype, I hope that the sound is good and that you'll be able to call in.

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I forgot to ask whether we will be able to use Skype, I suppose we probably will if we've got it up and running anyways.

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Dividing that line, and then 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number for the regular

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Dividing Line contact number, which I do not have in front of me, but I think

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I've said it enough times that hopefully I can remember it, 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number.

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A couple of things while we queue up some callers, I hope we do have some callers today, it's a little bit easier when we're on Skype to do it that way.

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And that is, some of you probably are not happy at the current blog article, but I will once again point out that just because many evangelicals have a very short memory and short attention span and are very easily distracted doesn't mean that the rest of us should be.

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I was directed this morning to the speakers page regarding the 25th

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Annual Pastors Conference at the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville.

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This has got to be a big church, let me put it that way, because I think someone mentioned they counted 30 speakers on this one page.

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Now, just feeding that number of people would be way out of my league, but putting them up and recording all of this and everything else, this must be a very, very large church.

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You see, it's four rows of them, so one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, yep, plus two at the bottom, yep, there's 30 people speaking at this one conference.

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That is a lot of work. Some big names, well -known names,

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David Allen from Southwestern, the same gentleman who falsely accuses me of hyper -Calvinism and will not be corrected in that.

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Junior Hill, there's a name I hadn't seen in a long time since I was at the North Phoenix Baptist Church.

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Paul Tripp's going to be there, Ed Stetzer's going to be there, Alan Mohler and Danny Akin, Jerry Vines, and of course,

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Paige Patterson, Johnny Hunt, big names, but down at the bottom of the page, you find

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Emir and Eragon Kanter. Now, I'm going to refresh this page while I'm sitting here, just to see if maybe something has gotten fixed, and I click on the bio, and nope, actually, it's, oh, there we go, look at this, folks.

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Fascinating, I need to post this immediately, the posting of my blog article only a few hours ago has resulted in the changing of the bio from Eragon Kanter.

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Let's do a screen capture right here, and we will get that up here. Glad I had the other one, but now what we have for Eragon Kanter is

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Eragon Kanter is a professor and apologist at the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary and Graduate School in Lynchburg, Virginia, raised as a devout

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Sunni Muslim, along with his two brothers, Kanter converted in high school. After his conversion, he pursued his calling to the ministry and education, he has a master's degree from the

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Criswell College, a Master of Divinity, a Master of Theology from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and a Doctor of Theology from the

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University of South Africa. He has written numerous books, his brother, Dr. Emir Kanter, who is the president of Truett McConnell College, a

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Baptist college in Georgia. That's not what it said this morning. No, this morning, as it says on the blog, we had

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Eragon Mehmet Kanter is president of the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary and Graduate School at the Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, raised as the son of a

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Muslim leader in Turkey. Kanter became a Christian shortly before entering college, serving under his

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Chancellor and President Jerry Falwell, Jr. Kanter led the seminary to triple in growth since its installation in 2005, which really isn't true, by the way.

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A public speaker and apologist, Kanter has debated Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and other religious leaders in 13 countries and 35 states, which we know to be completely bogus.

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The author of 17 books, Kanter lives in Lynchburg with his wife, Jill, and his two sons, Braxton and Drake. So that's what was there this morning.

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Now we have the updated version. How embarrassing must it be to have to run around and correct people who take your bio?

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If someone took my old bios and put them up, you know the only thing that they'd have to correct was how many debates

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I've actually done and how long I've been married. They could use old bios from me and nothing would have changed because I haven't lied about my past and made up stories about my past, unlike Eragon Kanter, who now has to contact churches and say, um, okay, uh, all right, you know, the 13 countries and 35 states thing, um,

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Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, other things, um, uh, born in Turkey, um, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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So I've, I've saved that screenshot and, uh, once we're done here, if I have time, because I don't have a lot of time after this before I start lecturing, but if I have time,

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I will update that with the, uh, the new version of the bio, uh, that, um, that has now been posted.

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It seems obvious to me as I look at the pictures on the

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Pastors' Conference page, um, that the reason the Kanters are here can be very clearly seen just a few rows up, uh, in the fact that Paige Patterson is speaking here, and, uh, obviously

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I think Paige Patterson is behind having them there, uh, but as I said, what we're seeing here is the continuation of the great evangelical cover -up, uh, putting, uh, the

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Kanter brothers here, and it was interesting, I was going to, I didn't have time to, but I was going to contrast the bio of Emir Kanter with the bio of Ergun Kanter and show the contradictions, uh, because Emir Kanter's bio specifically says, born on August 25th, 1970,

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Emir Fetih Kanter grew up in the Columbus, Ohio area in a Sunni Muslim family, the son of an

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Islamic leader. Now, uh, again, the idea that their father was an Islamic leader,

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I've not found any of his books, um, I've not found any evidence that this is the case, he was involved in, uh, founding a

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Turkish -American, uh, society or something like that, but that doesn't make you a Muslim leader.

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Uh, but, uh, there was a contrast, at least initially, between the two bios, a contradiction between the two, that has now been removed, and, you know what's, uh, hey, hey,

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Rich, have, uh, have we gotten any thanks, uh, from the First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, or from Ergun Kanter, or anything, any emails thanking us, uh, for catching this, and, uh, uh, thanking us for the correction?

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Not that I'm aware of, but that historical circumstance could change at any moment. Okay, thank you very much, uh, yeah, and if I misspoke,

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I want to correct it, just in case. But that wasn't an error, okay?

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Okay, no, it was never an error, no, there's no such thing as errors in the claims we make about our past, never, never.

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It is troubling, we laugh a little bit, and maybe we shouldn't, but, um, especially when these types of changes are made, and everybody, okay, everybody in this audience knows why that change was made, everybody here knows, but there's nothing mentioned about it, and the people attending that conference aren't going to know, and maybe the people who signed up to come, who read the preceding bio, aren't going to know that there's been a change, or anything like this, because the great evangelical cover -up spearheaded by Norman Geisler and others is working really well.

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And here you have the evidence of it. Well, it's working really well in that sense, but, uh, it's sad that I continue to receive contacts from people who have actually left

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Liberty Seminary as students, they will not continue there because they cannot, they have integrity, and they just simply can't press on.

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They see that here's a man, he's now back teaching full -time, teaching on Islam, and he has not faced the reality of his own actions, and they just go, can't do it, can't do it.

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And I certainly understand why, and I hope that they find some good places they can go and receive instruction in a proper way.

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But there you have it, the continuing evangelical cover -up, it steamrolls on, and I wonder how long in the future it'll be that we will continue to see these false claims being posted.

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And until someone points it out, doesn't seem anybody cares. It's a sad thing.

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Well, what I was going to talk about until we saw that was the situation,

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I don't know if you have been following it, but the situation in Pakistan, where a man by the name of Malik Mumtaz Hussein Qadri, a 26 -year -old man, shot the governor of the

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Punjab province, Salman Taseer, 26 times.

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He was his bodyguard, evidently not a good choice on that level, and he shot him because he was opposed to 295C, which is the absurd, unjust, ridiculous, blasphemy law in Pakistan.

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Everybody in Pakistan knows that that law exists so that the

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Muslims can persecute and silence any minority that isn't

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Muslim. Everybody knows it. Even the government in the

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Azia Bibi situation has looked into it and realizes this was a local dispute, and the

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Muslims brought this up and made the accusation of blasphemy against Mohammed simply because that's how you can win any argument.

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It is meant to destroy all freedom of speech and it is meant to give the majority of individuals the ability to persecute others.

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That's all it is. And yet, the murder of this man has been applauded by so many, and the man who did the murdering is considered to be a hero by so many.

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Now, I know, and I've been looking around, and I have been traveling, so maybe

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I've missed it, but I have not seen anything, for example, on Muslimmatters .org,

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where people have been saying that this individual is evil.

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I don't know exactly how a moderate Muslim would respond to the fact that Hussein Qadri could very clearly make an argument from the examples of the

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Prophet Mohammed, who had people killed who had criticized him, they could make the argument, well, why can't we do this?

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In other words, I haven't seen the moderate Muslim response, the argument from the moderate

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Muslims, the non -radicalized Muslims, that what this man did was wrong.

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Based on Sunnah, based on the

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Hadith, based on the actions of Mohammed himself, did he not have people killed who had criticized him?

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And if you might say, well, yes, but that was political in that situation, it's not political now. Of course it's political now!

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I'd like to know what the argument is that Malik Mumtaz Hussein Qadri, what he did was wrong, and that he should not be punished for this murder.

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I would like to know. But it certainly tells us what life is like in Pakistan, and oh, fellow believers, we need to pray for our

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Pakistani fellow Christians. What must it be like?

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The constant pressure. And what must it be like,

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I wonder, for the Muslims who listen to this program? Has it ever struck you, my Muslim friend, that by law you have to silence the proclamation of the

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Gospel? If Islam is so strong, why do you have to do that? Why can't

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Islam prevail in the public square, allowing both sides to speak? Why won't

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Zakir Naik ever come out and actually debate someone who can take him on? What's the situation here?

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It's difficult really to understand sometimes. Well, it's not difficult to understand, it's difficult to understand how people can look at it and not see what the truth is.

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That, I guess, is a better way to put it. So I'm keeping my eye on this, and what happens with this man.

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The picture that I'm looking at in the New York Times here is frightening.

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The facial expression on Qadri seems like a very evil man to me, not just by facial expression, but by what he did when you shoot someone 26 times for daring to ...

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well, the governor had visited with Aziz al -Babi, and he knew that his time on earth was short.

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What an amazing thing. And if that's what Islam brings to a culture, well,

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I don't really have any interest in Islam bringing that to my culture in any way, shape, or form. 877 -753 -3341, we have one caller on line, and looking for your calls as well.

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877 -753 -3341 is the phone number dividing dot line via Skype.

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And so we have a call, I have no idea how to pronounce this, I guess it's Guglio in California on Galatians 216.

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Hi, Guglio. Hello, Guglio.

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Okay, anybody out there? Am I still connected? Dr. Wright? Yes, there you are.

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Oh, hello, Dr. Wright. I called you a few weeks ago. I'm fine, I'm the one that has the funny name.

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Anyway, I'm calling because I purchased your book, Potter's Freedom, and I'm still waiting for it.

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I bought it from your online. And so I don't know if you go into this, into your book, but I went on a website, and there was a fellow that was defending

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Calvinism, and he said that Calvinism believes in Ephesians 2 .8,

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that both the grace and the faith are gifts from God, and this is my question, Galatians 2 .16,

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via the Greek, and in parentheses he wrote, and KJV, show that we are justified of the faith of Christ, not in.

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So I got my scriptures out, and it does say, in Jesus. So is there a discrepancy, or what is the...if

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you can help me out there. Well, I'm not sure what the question is, to be honest with you.

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This is some website that you read? Yeah, well, the way

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I understand it is that it said, justified of the faith of Christ. But when I go to my...I

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have the new KJV, and it says, in the faith of Christ. Is it the same, or is it different?

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Or am I making a mountain out of a mohill? Well, if you're looking at Galatians 2 .16, the

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New American Standard says, Nevertheless, knowing the man is not justified by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, since by the works of the law, no flesh may be justified.

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So is the question...there are people who look at the phrase,

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Dea Pistaos Jesu Christu, by the faith of Jesus Christ, and they say, this is...the

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genitive should be here as understood as His faithfulness,

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His faithfulness. And we are justified by His faithfulness. The issue is between the subjective and objective genitive.

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It's an interpretational issue. And they would say that it is the faithfulness of Jesus Christ that is being referred to here.

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In fact, I think there might be a translation that actually renders it that way.

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Let me bring one up here and see if the one I'm thinking of actually does have it.

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But there are many other people that reject that, and would argue that while there may be a couple of places where that is a possible translation, that in the vast majority of situations, yeah, in fact, the

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New English translation says, Yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law, but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ.

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And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law, no one will be justified.

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So I'm assuming that's probably where that came from. Here's the note that is provided by the

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NET translators at this point to explain this. It's a fairly lengthy one, but it says,

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Or faith in Jesus Christ. A decision is difficult here, though traditionally translated faith in Jesus Christ, an increasing number of New Testament scholars are arguing that pistis

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Christi, and similar phrases in Paul, and there are a number of others listed, involve a subjective genitive, and mean

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Christ's faith or Christ's faithfulness. They mention G.

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Howard, R .B. Hayes, Morna D. Hooker, etc. Noteworthy among the arguments for the subjective genitive view is that when pistis takes a personal genitive, it is almost never an objective genitive.

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On the other hand, the objective genitive view has its adherents, Holtgren, D .G.

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Dunn, and others. Most commentaries on Romans and Galatians usually side with the objective view, which would be faith in Christ.

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The subjective view is the faithfulness of Christ. So, there is an extensive discussion of this in C .E

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.B. Cranfield's commentary on Romans, and it is a major area of discussion.

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I am not convinced of the subjective view myself, and most translations are not either.

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Wow, thank you very much. Do you go into this a little bit in your book? I go into it in The God Who Justifies, not

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The Potter's Freedom. The Potter's Freedom is specifically on the doctrines of grace, but when you talk about justification, then yeah,

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I address it in that book, especially because I use the N .E

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.T. as my base text, so I had to discuss the subjective -objective issue.

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Well, I guess I'll have to pick that one up, too. I know you're busy.

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Thank you very much. Okay, thank you very much. Bye -bye. 877 -753 -3341, dividing dot line via Skype is the phone number, and yeah,

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I can understand why that could be a confusing issue. I don't know that it really, since there are so many places where we are to believe in Jesus.

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Oh, we're not going to be able to use Skype? Okay. I am Skype, so I'm not going to be able to use

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Skype, so if you're dividing that line, sorry, you'll have to call 877 -753 -3341, even though I mentioned that earlier and nobody had said anything about it, but that's okay.

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Anyway, there are so many places in Scripture where we have the objective concept of exercising faith in Christ, that Christ is the object of our faith, that it's certainly not denying in any way that there is an objective placing of faith in Christ.

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It is just simply bringing out the possibility that Christ's faithfulness in His sacrifice, in His intercessory work, etc.,

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etc., is important as well. I don't know that that's really a big, it just doesn't seem to change the meaning all that much, but it is an interesting thing to examine and to discuss and to look at it, and that's why

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I wanted to read the entirety of the note that was provided in the NET at that particular point in time.

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So, 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number. For those of you who were praying, as I had requested a prayer for a situation,

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I am looking at a second book and looking at a co -author for that second book, and unfortunately the primary person

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I wanted to have as the co -author of that book has declined doing so. So, you may continue to pray that we find the right person to do the right thing with this book.

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I think it will be very, very important if we can do so, but this is other than the book that I have already mentioned to you that I'm starting to work on, and that is what every

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Christian needs to know about the Koran. And other articles that I'm working on,

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I'm working on two articles similar to that for the Reformed Baptist Theological Review as well, so I have a lot of writing to be doing.

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I pray that I can make headway in that area, and it was just mentioned to me by the faceless, voiceless person behind the microphone back in the studios in Phoenix.

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I did mention in a blog article, and I guess we can go back and link to it now, not that it would really matter, that the debate we did on the dividing line sometime �

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I forget what the date was � it was 98, 99, somewhere around in that, 1999.

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The debate that we did on the dividing line, myself and Thomas Holland on the King James version of the

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Bible, and specifically which version of the Bible, the King James or modern translations, better presents the deity of Christ.

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So, it was a little bit more focused, and I listened to it a couple times while writing a few weeks ago, before we got posted in the bookstore.

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And I have to admit, you know what, there are simply some times that I wonder why it is that people try to slam me all the time for just being so mean and nasty, because I listen to these debates, and there's potentiality for meanness and nastiness in these debates and it just doesn't happen.

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It seemed like a very clear, understandable, fair, respectful encounter that we had, and I remember doing it.

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It was back when we were still doing the program on KPXQ Radio in Phoenix, and I remember what the studio looked like.

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And it's interesting how you have these images from those debates in your mind. But it was a very, very good debate, and it's now available in the bookstore, and I'll have to try to ...

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we just need to give someone the ability to blog, who can just make sure that anything new that we've offered in the bookstore is mentioned on the blog.

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That's what we need to do, because I just can't always get to it. I just can't do it.

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So that's something I think that would be wise to do.

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Also, for those of you who have visited in our chat channel, if you have all your settings set up to come visit us in the channel, you won't find us there anymore.

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We have actually started our own IRC network, and I would like to thank

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Randy and Shamgar for all of their work in getting that set up. Randy has especially been doing

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Yeoman's work in setting that up. We hopefully will have a second server up and running before too long.

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And we've all made the move over to GenevaIRC .net, which is our own network.

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I suppose since I'm mentioning this, we might as well tell one of our lamers, one of the guys that listens to the program, who has been banned from the old network, but he still always tries to get in, and then every once in a while he does manage to sneak in.

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And then PM, private message, everybody in the channel, about how I'm going to hell. Good old

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Troy Brooks. Troy, don't even bother. Let me just tell you something,

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Troy. Even though it would be more fun to just go ahead and let you try, even if you manage to sneak on, we have actually designed this network so that if you send anybody your little private messages, the network will not allow it to happen.

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It will disappear into cyberspace. So go onto our website, get the information about where we are.

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Too late. And join us in the chat channel. We're watching everybody in the chat channel right now.

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We're going to go ahead and take our break at the half hour. Get your calls at 877 -753 -3341.

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877 -753 -3341. We'll be right back right after this. What is

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Dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book Chosen But Free? A New Cult? Secularism?

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False Prophecy Scenarios? No, Dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called

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Calvinism. He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent, philosophically insufficient, and morally repugnant.

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In his book, The Potters' Freedom, James White replies to Dr. Geisler, But The Potters' Freedom is much more than just a reply.

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It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed, it is a defense of the very gospel itself.

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In a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate, James White masterfully counters the evidence against so -called extreme

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Calvinism, defines what the Reformed faith actually is, and concludes that the gospel preached by the

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Reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture. The Potters' Freedom, a defense of the

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Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's Chosen But Free. You'll find it in the Reformed Theology section of our bookstore at aomen .org.

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More than any time in the past, Roman Catholics and Evangelicals are working together. They are standing shoulder to shoulder against social evils.

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They are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements. And many Evangelicals are finding the history, tradition, and grandeur of the

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Roman Catholic Church appealing. This newfound rapport has caused many Evangelical leaders and laypeople to question the age -old disagreements that have divided

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Protestants and Catholics. Aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language? James White's book,

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The Roman Catholic Controversy, is an absorbing look at current views of tradition in Scripture. The papacy, the mass, purgatorian indulgences, and Marian doctrine.

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James White points out the crucial differences that remain regarding the Christian life and the heart of the gospel itself that cannot be ignored.

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Order your copy of The Roman Catholic Controversy by going to our website at aomen .org.

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Hello everyone, this is Rich Pierce. In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man -centered self -help program, the need for a no -nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater.

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I am convinced that a great many go to church every Sunday, yet they have never been confronted with their sin.

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Alpha Omega Ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner, making no excuses.

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Man is sinful and God is holy. That sinful man is in need of a perfect Savior, and Jesus Christ is that perfect Savior.

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We are to come before the Holy God with an empty hand of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well.

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Support Alpha and Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

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Thank you. And welcome back to The Dividing Line on a

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Thursday afternoon, unusual time. I realize that. Did I even, I think

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I did blog it. It's hard to remember when you're traveling what you did or what you did not do.

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And that probably accounts, yes, I did blog it. So it probably accounts for why we're missing some of our regular listeners and hence some of our regular callers at 877 -753 -3341.

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877 -753 -3341 is the phone number. I guess we've got lots of folks listening, but not a lot of folks calling.

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So you can do that at 877 -753 -3341.

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I spent some time, I've been, I hope it's a sign of maturity that you can admit openly that you've looked at certain scriptures.

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You've memorized certain scriptures. But because of who you are and what your controversies are and what your interests are, sometimes you continue to miss things.

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Even when you know the text very well. It's right there in front of you. You can see it.

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When you look at the subject of apologetics, what is the key text?

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The key text in the New Testament. For example, we were just talking about how our chat channel has moved.

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We've created our own IRC network. The main chat channel has been, and will always be,

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Prosopologion. Now we make it one word, and it's lots of fun to watch people trying to spell it.

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But Prosopologion is two Greek words from 1 Peter 3 .15. Hetoemoi ei prosopologion.

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Always be ready to give a defense. It is the classicist locus, the classical text on apologetics.

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And yet, starting about a year or so ago, yeah, it was almost exactly a year ago,

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I remember because the anniversary of my mother's death is coming up in just a few days, and I actually taught an apologetics class at Golden Gate after her death, but before her funeral.

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And I flew up there, and they worked with me to work around the schedule and things like that. I'm very appreciative of that.

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And I remember starting off that class with a discussion of 1 Peter 3 .15.

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And that's the first time that I remember really delving into this text on a deeper level.

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Now I actually may have done that, now that I'm thinking about it, just a few weeks earlier, speaking someplace else.

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I'm just not certain when it was. But be that as it may, I have been really convicted that when you look at a text like this, that you need to look at it and you need to not import your traditions into it.

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I've spoken about this text many times, I've talked about the importance of always being ready, and it's not that what

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I've said about the text has been wrong in the past, it's just that it wasn't complete.

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Because we skip past the beginning of this verse. Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts.

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Well that sounds real nice, it sounds very religious. We sort of give lip service to it, and then we get to the always ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that's within you, yet with gentleness and reverence, and we dive into that.

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But I have really come to understand that that first portion of 1

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Peter 3 .15 is, let me put it this way, if you don't start with that, you're not going to have a balanced application of what comes afterwards.

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In other words, I think finally I've understood what Peter is saying in its fullness, rather than just in a limited application.

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Yes, I was aware of the fact that this is an allusion to Isaiah chapter 8.

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And yes, it is very important to go back to this, and to look at the context, it's important in regards to identification of the

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Lord as Jehovah, that's all important. But once I saw that, then

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I really had to start struggling with the assertion that's being made here.

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And answer the question, alright, if this is a command to sanctify the

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Messiah as Kurios in your hearts, how do I do it? How do

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I do it? It would seem that any Christian would immediately want to make sure, if this is a command from my

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Lord, I want to know how to carry this command out. And just using religious language isn't enough.

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Just using religious language to say, well, you know, it's to think of Christ as being holy, or something like that.

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There's much more to it than that. And it seems to come together with what you have at the end of the verse, which

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I remember thinking about a few times, and not really following through on.

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And that is, have you ever noticed that the ones to whom you are to give the defense, you're always to be ready, not just once in a while, but you're always to be ready to give a reasoned defense, but to whom?

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To everyone I tell you, asking you a question.

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Asking you specifically for a reason concerning the in you hope.

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Now, why would someone come up to most Christians and ask them about the hope that's within them?

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Or, I guess the better way to put it would be, do most Christians live in such a way that anyone would come up and ask them about the hope within them?

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Is the hope that is within us even visible to most people?

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And this is the conclusion I've come to. If we take serious the command at the beginning of the verse, and if I'm right to understand this as being an enthronement of the lordship of Christ in our minds and our hearts in such a way that the entirety of our lives, including our actions, our words, our responses to trials and tribulation will be ordered in light of his lordship.

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If I'm right in understanding it that way, that person's life and activity will be so different than people in the world, that it will result in people asking us about the hope that's within us because that hope that's within us will shine forth in how we live.

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You see how it all ties together? How the fulfillment of the command at the beginning of the verse explains why there would be these people asking us a reason for the hope that's within us?

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You know, it's just so much, there's just so much more to it than we normally think.

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There's so much more to it than just the phrase always ready to give a defense.

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And it's, I don't know, it's, that also then explains with the gentleness and reverence part as well.

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There's much more I could go into, but the classical text on apologetics should be a classical text for every single believer to seek to order their inward life in accordance with the

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Lordship of Christ. And when we talk about the Lordship of Christ, this should be part and parcel of the presentation of the

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Gospel that Jesus Christ is Lord, at least N .T. Wright's got that part right, even if he's got a lot of other parts not right.

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That is a proclamation of power, that is a royal proclamation, and when we proclaim it, the result should be a hope that shines in our lives, and yet a proper attitude of gentleness and reverence in how we give an answer to those who ask us.

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So, there's just some thoughts from a text that is familiar to all of us, important to all of us.

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It's okay to take it as a motto, as a slogan, as long as we really do understand it in its full context.

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877 -753 -3341 is the phone number that you can call to become involved in the program today, and that is the number that was called by Dimitri.

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Dimitri, what can we do for you? Hi, I have a question concerning Ezekiel 36, and whether the context of the hearts of stone being taken out and the heart of flesh being put in, whether that applies to us?

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I mean, because it seems like it would, but indirectly, because I have a relative who

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I've talked to about this spot, and he seems to say that that just applies to Israel and doesn't really apply to us, though we can think of it as applying to us as well.

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Well, the reference that was given to me is a little bit before the important point.

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When you look at Ezekiel 36, a vast majority of scholars see that this is the background to Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus in regards to being born again.

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Ezekiel 36 -24, For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land.

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Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

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Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

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I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances.

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This is the New Covenant language, it's parallel with Jeremiah 31, and it's the very language that is utilized by the

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Lord Jesus to talk about the role of the spirit, regeneration, being born again.

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All of this is seen in the New Testament as a fulfillment of this, so there really can be no question that this is completely applicable because the

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New Testament cites these passages, makes reference to these passages, borrows the language of these passages to explain the newness of what

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God has done in Jesus Christ. So, yeah, I mean, if you try to limit this just to a restoration of an ethnic nation of Israel, you're completely missing the application that is made by the

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New Testament itself. So would it be right to say that this is more of a spiritual

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Israel that's being talked about, and not so much just the nation itself?

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I mean, that's kind of the... Well, what is Paul's not -so -cryptic comment that's so straightforward when he says to Philippians, we are the true circumcision that worship

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God, that worship Jesus Christ by the Spirit. So who is the

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Israel of God today? It is, of course, the people of God. And so I realize that some of my dispensationalist friends disagree with me on that, but that's the application that Paul himself makes, that these promises are fulfilled in the establishment of the

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New Covenant, and it's not just made with ethnic Israel. Yeah, and also concerning the same spot, is it right, or is there any basis to argue regeneration before faith and repentance?

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Since, like, starting in verse 31, you have, then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds.

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So when I was talking to my father -in -law about this, that it is what precedes or what follows the taking out the heart of flesh is the remembering and understanding our evil ways and hating ourselves.

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I mean, is it okay to argue, I guess, would you say that regeneration before faith is visible in this context?

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I wouldn't do that. I would not take what is the substance of a

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New Testament revelation in that case and try to read it back. I think you can certainly make the argumentation that this is supportive of that or it's reflective of that, but I wouldn't make the argument from that, because you have such clear texts in Romans and in the

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New Testament that you go with the clear, strong texts.

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I think what you could do is make an application and say, notice that in Ezekiel 36 -31, then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good and you will loathe yourselves, your iniquities and your abominations.

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In other words, what's really being said there is that once God acts and God gives a new heart and God changes the heart, then there will be true repentance for sin and there will be a true recognition of sin.

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The terrible aspect of the

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Mixed Covenant, of the Old Covenant, was that you had people who engaged in religious activities that automatically made them hypocritical.

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For example, the people flooding into the temple, saying, the temple, the temple, the temple, God would never judge us because we're in the temple.

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The prophets have to keep saying, no, who cares about the temple? God's concern is about a broken heart and all these things that are associated with the spiritual work of regeneration.

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Regeneration has never been on the basis of a mere external, genetic, genealogical relationship.

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It's always been the work of the Spirit of God in bringing about regeneration. As I understand it, the difference between the

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Old Covenant and the New Covenant is that in the New Covenant, all those in the New Covenant experience regeneration.

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That's its superiority. And I don't know if you saw the links that I posted on my website, but I preached through Hebrews chapter 8 just a few weeks ago and those sermons are up on sermonaudio .com.

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Okay, well, yeah, thank you for that. And I don't know if there's time for a quick last question. Sure, go ahead.

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This is more to do with early church fathers. I was talking with a coworker, and this had to do with Reformed theology, and he had said that his view more aligns with the early church fathers, and I think he was talking about people before Augustine, and that their view of free will was,

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I guess, Armenian in a sense, or that they had a free will understanding, not the same as Augustine, I guess, did.

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Yeah, well, I suppose if he's a good Roman Catholic and early church writer, or his authority, that's a good thing.

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But it has always made me chuckle when non -Roman Catholics, or at least non -Eastern

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Orthodox too, throw their entire view of authority, which is supposed to be based on to say, oh, well,

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I just agree with the early church fathers on this. First of all, it was not the primary subject that they were interested in addressing.

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Secondly, many of them were not overly biblical on the issues that they addressed in this subject at all.

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And thirdly, while it was rather obvious that there was an emphasis upon some type of free will in a large number of people who addressed that, they were doing that primarily not against a concept of Reformed theology or Calvinism, but against the fates and the fatalism of the pagan religions.

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And they were denying that mankind is somehow fated by impersonal forces, as you have in paganism.

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But I never argue Reformed theology based upon, you know,

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I mean, I could sit here and quote Augustine until the cows come home on predestination, election, and all the rest of that stuff.

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Big deal! He's not my authority, and neither is a Tertullian or anybody else.

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As soon as I see folks going that direction, I know that on a biblical basis, they're not even ready to make an argument for their position.

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So, yeah, I would say it's very easy to identify early writers that would have had significantly less than biblical views of such subjects as the will of man, the deadness of man in sin, etc.,

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etc. But I can also find places where they had sub -biblical views of almost everything else, too.

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I take the good and leave the bad. And the fact that they didn't have the scriptures in a total could also definitely account for that.

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Yeah, some of them, like a Justin Martyr, never quotes from Paul. So if you have a limited canon, yeah, that's going to...

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I mean, there were people like Justin Martyr who were significantly more influenced by Plato than they were by Paul, or by the rest of the canon, and that has to be taken into consideration as well, sure.

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And then if you are influenced by him, even when you have the full canon, then you might not be reading the text in the appropriate fashion because of those external forces.

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So it's always a matter of going back to the Word of God. For me, the sheep of Christ hear the voice of Christ, that they're going to want to see that which is

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Theanostas, and be obedient to that which is God -inspired. And if folks want to look someplace else for a reason not to believe in the sovereignty of God, well,

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I can't stop them. All I can do is speak the truth and leave the rest in God's hands.

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Yes, yes. Well, thank you very much. I've been very blessed by your ministry, and I appreciate all the work you do.

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I look forward to listening to your show all the time. Okay. All right. Thanks a lot, Dimitri. Stay warm up there.

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God bless. Bye. 877 -753 -3341.

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Even though we only have a few minutes left on the program, that's frequently when people call in. And our faithful fast -fingered friends back at the studios in Phoenix, where I'm sure it's considerably warmer than it is here, will let me know that you're on the line.

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If you wish to be praying for our ministry as we launch into 2011, I will be here through the weekend.

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I'll be preaching at Heritage Baptist Church on the weekend. I'm only home for a couple of days.

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I pretty much lose all of Monday in travel, unfortunately. But on Thursday of next week,

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I will be engaging in a debate in the Birmingham area. And let me actually find this for you.

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I apologize. I should have had this up. But there it is right there, the

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Deep South Regional Founders Conference. I just brought it up.

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Go ahead and bring up deepsouthfounders .wordpress .com.

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And I love the graphic. They have a pre -conference debate, free. And it's this great

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Calvinist -Arminian debate, where the Calvinist says Isaiah 46, 9 -10.

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The Arminian says Matthew 23, 37. The Calvinist says John 6, 37 -44. The Arminian says 1

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Timothy 2, 4. Calvinist says Romans 9, 10 -23. The Arminian says, survey this! Then the next panel says, sorry,

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I panicked. That is good.

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I love that. But anyways, it gives you the information, location. I will be debating

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Dr. Steve Blakemore, who is a Wesleyan, on the subject of the bondage to the will and the freedom of the will.

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And I'm looking for the location here. And I'm not necessarily seeing it, but here it is.

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Well, no, that's not it either. Well, it's somewhere on this page.

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And the Deep South Regional Founders Conference at Reformed Theological Seminary and Grace Baptist Church.

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So the information is found there. And so Tom Askell will be joining me at this conference as well.

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And we will be addressing the subject of the Trinity. And so I would invite you to be a part of this.

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I think you might still have time to get involved. And there's information at deepsouthfounders .wordpress

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.com including, I suppose, the directions link would probably be a good thing to look at.

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That would probably give you the idea, anyways, where to find this thing. And it's still not really telling me.

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Grace Chapel on the Reformed Theological Seminary main campus is where you will find this.

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And there are directions that will be found there. So that's where I'll be next Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and Sunday morning.

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I will be speaking elsewhere. I do not have that information in front of me. Mike Gadosh's church, wherever that is, is where I will be.

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So I'm going to get in the car with him and go. How's that? Sometimes I don't even know where I'm going. But I will be preaching there and flying home.

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And then very shortly after that, a possibility has opened up. And we're out of time.

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But a possibility has opened up for even more ministry in Scotland. So lots of stuff going on when

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I get over to the UK. We'll have more information. Hopefully put up a webpage with the information on that as we get closer.

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But thanks for listening to Dividing Line. Lord willing, be back with you at the regular time next Tuesday. See you then.

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God bless. We need a new reformation day.

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It's a sign of the times. The truth is being trampled in a new age paradigm.

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Won't you lift up your voice? Are you tired of plain religion? It's time to make some noise.

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Outlaw in the door. Outlaw in the door.

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Stand up for the truth. Won't you live for the Lord? Outlaw in the door.