Leaving Behind The Doctrine of Hell? Andy Stanley's New Sermon Series "The Fundamental List"

This is probably the guy that I refer to the most, Andy Stanley. I think of all the well-known pastors that I've brought up many times. I usually bring him up because he's the best example of this. You know, someone like Joel Osteen.

I don't, even people that like Joel Osteen, I think, I don't know that they take him that seriously. I think they realize he's kind of superficial, but he smiles and he makes them feel good. So I don't know that Joel Osteen is the biggest threat.

Andy Stanley, on the other hand, from what I see, from what I can tell, he has deconstructed and he is now attacking the faith. That's my perception of it. Andy Stanley is the son of Charles Stanley. He was brought up in a home where Charles Stanley's doctrine was taught.

Andy Stanley deconstructed. He doesn't believe the doctrine of his father.

Andy

The Lord was merciful to his father and took him home.

Yeah, and

He doesn't have to listen to his son anymore.

And Andy Stanley went to Dallas Theological Seminary.

Oh, man.

What he's teaching today is not the beliefs of Dallas Theological. So I would argue, the point is, I would argue Andy Stanley himself has deconstructed and now he's trying to get other people to follow him in deconstruction.

So listen to what he says. He actually praises people who are deconstructing.

Hey, they just leave church, right? They deconstruct. They deconstruct their faith. And this may be you as well. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You stepped away from organized religion to rethink your faith because you still believe.

You still believe in God and you still hold Jesus in high esteem.

In fact, you haven't really changed.

What you believe about God and Jesus. It's just the whole organized religion and the church tradition, it just didn't seem to line up. And now you're kind of in no man's land a little bit. You had to step away from organized religion and kind of catch your breath to figure out what is fundamental and what's not, what is essential and what's not.

You had to figure out what you needed to leave behind and you're pretty confident what you want to leave behind because if that's the way you have to treat people in order to be a Christian, I'm not sure I can be a Christian or I can't be that kind of a Christian because I don't think Jesus would treat people that way.

I don't think Jesus is gonna send my brother to hell. He's one of the finest people I know. I just have to step away and think about this. You know what needs to be left behind. And if you know what needs to be left behind, look up here, good for you, mature of you, honest of you.

Okay, so any reactions? And I promise if you have a question or if you see things a little differently, I'm not gonna come down hard on you, okay? But what's your response? You, yes.

When it comes to liars, he's better at it than Satan himself in the garden. And boy, I can just see these heretics around scribbling down just these little phrases. Oh, that sounds so good. Oh, I'm gonna say that and I'm gonna sound so wise, especially to somebody who is kind of stupid.

Hmm, yeah. They deceive Paul in Romans 16.

Yeah, they're young or a new Christian.

Paul in Romans 16, the false teachers, they deceive the hearts of the simple or the naive. And it might not even be that somebody's stupid. We talked about it last week. Romans 16, 17 and 18, I believe it is.

But it might not be that somebody isn't, it's not that they're not intelligent, it's just they don't know yet. They haven't been taught. Maybe they're a new believer and they just haven't got their feet under them.

But any, so, okay, we got one who you see some problems with what was said. I think it's safe to say that. Janet.

I saw an interview that Andy did with his father just shortly before he passed away. And if you were not a believer, it is so convincing that the things that he says would be easy to get misled.

Right, yeah. And as much as I have appreciated Charles Stanley's ministry, that is just something I can't get over, how at the end of his life, he affirmed the ministry of his own son. And that, here's the problem.

That tells the world that, hey, well, Charles Stanley agrees with it. Charles Stanley's okay with it. So it must be all right. That was very unfortunate, to say the least. Yes, Erin.

I wanna dial back a little bit.

On the strength of what was said. The reason he's so dangerous is because, number one, he believes it. He's not, in his mind, he's not lying.

Yeah.

He really, truly believes that, and some of what he said is absolutely true. You do sometimes need to take a step back and say, what am I doing here? Am I really fully on board with this? And if not, why not?

Yep.

The only example I can give is our church just had a major, well, that's why we're here, over the issue of women becoming pastors. And it, I was born in that church. It rocked my entire world.

Yeah.

Because I thought I knew exactly how I felt about that issue. And then I had to look at it again. And reexamining is a good thing.

Yeah.

And he points that out.

Yep.

But that's the whole point of deception, though, is if it's not rooted in some parallel truth, it's completely unbelievable.

Right.

And everybody's gonna pick up on it.

Right.

And so, I mean, this man is truly deceived.

Yeah.

Deceiving and being deceived. So Andy Stanley himself is deceived. I'm sure he really believes everything he's saying. Well, he might not, I don't know. But he probably does, I wouldn't doubt that. So he's deceived, and he's deceiving others.

And if someone's had a bad church experience, or they are in one of these churches that were maybe abusive, I mean, I can see where people would be sympathetic to this, buy into some of this, and some of what he says, you know, there's a point to be made.

But let's just go through it. Because false teachers, one thing they do is they speak out of both sides of their mouth. And I think we see an example here in the beginning where he says, some people, they haven't left the faith, they've just left church.

And then he talks about them deconstructing their faith. Well, it's like, which is it? So you can sort of hear what you wanna hear, if you wanted to give him the benefit of every doubt. Which I know enough about Andy Stanley, and I've heard enough of his preaching that I am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But the person who has never heard anything from him, yeah, you don't really know where he's coming from. So I can sort of see both sides, but I agree with you, he's dangerous, and you agree that he's dangerous.

And there's any other comments before we go through it a little more closely?

Yes.

I just think it's sad because people who go to church but believe in God, and then they watch that and they believe it.

Yeah, one thing I can say with certainty, he doesn't preach the Bible. Pick any sermon. He's not reading the Bible and explaining the Bible, he just doesn't do that. So I would just say, do not go to a church, don't listen to a pastor who doesn't preach the Bible.

I mean, how basic is that? So, Emil, you had something?

It's not that the people are stupid, it's they're not wise in the word.

Right.

So they can't compare and say, as you often say, what does the word say in this subject, and that's where we'll stand.

Right.

They have no idea, they're just not familiar enough.

With the word.

Right, yep, thank you. Anyone else before we go through it again?

Well, new people or any old ones, too. I just would say, I saw this many, many years ago on the issue of homosexuality, when it was first becoming disapproved of, or approved of, I should say. And in the police department, one of my fellow police officers, the most bigoted, unkind, unloving guy would insult racism, sexism, he'd insult everybody until his son became homosexual.

Yeah.

And then he changed. He changed very, 180 degrees, because it was his son. And this is why it makes it real hard, when it's a relative or a close friend.

Okay, well, since you brought that up, and since that is one reason why people do shift their beliefs, because a loved one comes out of the closet. Here's the thing, you don't have to decide between your child and Jesus.

You can still keep the faith, and believe all of the Bible, and still love your child. But what people do is, yeah, they wanna just fully affirm what they're doing. I don't affirm everything my kids do.

I don't affirm everything I do. Like, you know? But you don't have to make that choice, but a lot of people do. I saw another hand.

Emil.

In sin, they crave acceptance.

Yeah.

And that's what they want out of you, acceptance. Accept me, accept my sin, and don't even call it a sin, because you're judgmental.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

But the truth, we accept the truth.

Right.

And our discernment relies on the Word.

Amen.

All right, let's go through this again, and I'll stop and make comment.

A lot of people don't leave the faith. They just leave church, right? They deconstruct. They deconstruct their faith.

Hold on a second. You hear what he said? They don't leave the faith, they just leave church. And then he says, then they deconstruct their faith. Like, isn't he saying, like, one thing, but now he's saying the opposite?

If you're

One leads to another.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, are there circumstances where people leave the church, but they don't leave the faith? I mean, you know, nothing comes to mind, but like, I accept that there could be, there could be a bad church, and you would want to leave that church.

But, you know, being part of the church and being part of the Christian faith, I mean, it kind of goes hand in hand, doesn't it? But yeah, so he's sort of talking out of both sides of his mouth right away.

Deconstructing faith or leaving the church, well, so people can hear what they want.

You as well. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You stepped away from organized religion to rethink your faith because you still believe. You still believe in God, and you still hold Jesus in high esteem.

In fact

Whoa, hold on. Hold Jesus in high esteem? What? The Muslims hold Jesus in high esteem. Now, it's a different Jesus. Their Jesus isn't the son of God and all the rest. There's a lot of people in this world who hold Jesus in high esteem, but to say he is Lord of all, I mean, come on.

Oh, but they still believe in God. That's meaningless. Oh, you believe in God. Well, okay, what God? Tell me something about God. That doesn't matter. Hold Jesus. So that part kind of, yeah. But yeah, they still believe.

Believe in what?

Okay, in evaluating Jesus, then you're gonna have to evaluate him by the things that he said and the things that he did.

Yeah.

He claimed to be God.

How do you know that?

Well, because it's written in his word.

Okay, so this is the whole thing.

The word is its own best thing. It says, thy word is truth.

Here's what they want. They want Christianity without this. They want faith without this. Because this, you can have something concrete, something certain. The Bible says this. Andy Stanley wants to unhitch.

He says Christians should unhitch from the Old Testament. So I quote 2 3rds of the Bible. Now it doesn't matter, because it's just the Old Testament. Then in a recent sermon, he said, really, not all parts of the Bible are equally important, which I guess you could argue there's some truth to that.

But what he's doing, it seems like, is only the gospels matter. Only Jesus matters. But then it's gonna be certain parts of what Jesus said. But this is what they're attacking. They're attacking the word of God.

Okay, let's continue. You haven't really changed.

What you believe about God and what you believe about Jesus. It's just the whole organized religion and the church tradition, it just didn't seem to line up. And now you're kind of in no man's land.

A little bit.

You had to step away from organized religion and kind of catch your breath to figure out what is fundamental and what's not. What is essential and what's not.

How do you know what's fundamental? See, he's doing a sermon called the fundamental list. Like a list of fundamentals. Of course, it's a play on words. The fundamentalist, of course, he thinks fundamentalists are ridiculous.

Well, how do you know what's fundamental? Yeah, the scripture would let us know what Jesus said was fundamental. Jesus said in John 14, verse six, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes unto the Father except by me.

Jesus, his view of marriage in Matthew 19. Between one man and one woman. Yet Andy Stanley allows people, two men who are married to one another to join his church and to serve in his church and he defends them.

Defends them. He has no problem with that. They're attacking the word of God. They don't want to go by the Bible. So, and there's one more thing I need to cover on this.

You had to figure out what you needed to leave behind and you're pretty confident what you want to leave behind because if that's the way you have to treat people in order to be a Christian, I'm not sure I can be a Christian.

I can't be that kind of Christian because I don't think Jesus would treat people that way. I don't think Jesus is gonna send my brother to hell. He's one of the finest people I know. I just have to step away.

Okay, so you need to figure out what you need to leave behind. What are those parts of Christianity that we need to deconstruct and just get rid of? The idea that Jesus would send someone to hell. I mean, they're such a good person.

That's what he said. I don't think, now he's speaking like for someone else who's deconstructing that Jesus wouldn't send my brother to hell just because he doesn't believe. That's what he's saying. Jesus, God isn't gonna send people to hell because they don't believe in Jesus.

They're such a good person. This is classic liberalism. You know, if there is a heaven, which, you know, I don't know, does he believe in a literal heaven? Let's just say he does. Well, then, of course, people are going there.

Why?

Is it about faith in Christ and being born again? No, he's such a good person. See, this is the world. This is the world, not the scripture. Jesus clearly said you must be born again, John 3. You must believe.

Those who do not believe, John 3 .16, will perish. You're not gonna hear that from him, Larry.

I heard him say a couple of times, I think, or I feel. Doesn't say scripture says.

Right, yeah, well, he's not gonna.

It's about feelings, about what I think is truth, the truth that's within me.

Right.

So this is what a lot of the big megachurches are doing, the famous Christian authors that are, you know, at Barnes Noble and everything else. This is what they're doing, and it's trickling down into the local churches.

And people see him, he's doing it, he's getting away with it, and he's successful. I'm gonna try it. He is giving people on a local level license to teach this false gospel, when he's clearly implying that as long as you're a good person, you'll go to heaven, you know, if there is a place called heaven.

But he's really not getting away with it.

Yeah, well, he will not get away with it, that's true. But our prayer for him, as well as all these other deconstructionists, is that they would repent before it's too late.