Radical Womanhood, Part 1

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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slash walk. Welcome to The Rap Report with your host,

01:04

Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the

01:11

Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

01:20

Welcome to The Rap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, the President and Executive Director of Striving for Eternity and the

01:28

Christian Podcast Community, of which this podcast is a member. Check out all the great podcasts at christianpodcastcommunity .org,

01:37

and we're going to be playing an episode of another podcast for you, one for you to check out, consider, especially for you ladies.

01:45

This is a podcast called Thoroughly Equipped with Melissa Lex, and this is one where she will be interviewing and talking with another

01:55

Christian podcaster from the Christian Podcast Community, from Grace and Peace Radio, Amy Russo, but they're going to talk about radical womanhood.

02:05

Now, really, this is very interesting, and I'm going to end up having them on Apologetics Live to discuss this in more detail about how first, second, and third wave feminism has changed, and how the third wave of feminism is actually undermining the first wave of feminism.

02:22

Very interesting discussion, but it does have implications for what we see in culture today.

02:28

So I hope you check this out, listen to this, and maybe check out Thoroughly Equipped.

02:34

You can find it at christianpodcastcommunity .org. And now, for Thoroughly Equipped Podcast.

02:43

Welcome to Thoroughly Equipped Podcast for Women, where we compare the popular women's ministry teachings, books, conferences,

02:52

Bible studies, etc. to Scripture. Our focus is 2 Timothy 3, 16 -17, that all

02:58

Scripture is God -breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so the man or woman of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

03:09

I am your host, Melba Toast. May this episode bless you and bring glory to God. Hey ladies, and welcome to another episode of Thoroughly Equipped.

03:21

So happy you could join me today if you are new, welcome. So I've been sort of neglecting

03:27

TE's Titus 2 time episodes. Usually before a book study review, I have an episode dedicated to Titus 2.

03:36

It's specifically centered on being a godly woman. The last Titus 2 time was answering the question, what is a woman, biblically.

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The reason this has been neglected is because instead of a women's ministry book or study review, we have been tackling a ministry, which has several facets to it and is much larger than a simple book or even a message.

04:02

So before we dive into part 4 of our series looking at Jenny Allen's very popular women's ministry if,

04:09

I want to do a Titus 2 time episode to make up for it. Now this one is a special one.

04:15

Instead of just me continuing the topic of womanhood, I thought I'd bring in a co -host.

04:21

So I want to welcome back Amy Russo from Grace and Peace Radio, another wonderful podcast you can find on Striving for Eternity's Christian Podcast Community.

04:32

I had a wonderful interview with her on TE's first episode of season 2.

04:38

I interviewed her because of her testimony of coming out of a feminist worldview to a biblical worldview.

04:44

For this episode, we are diving more into the topic of feminism and biblical womanhood, but discussing this topic alongside a book both of us read and thought was very interesting.

04:57

This Titus 2 time will be in two parts as we have a fun and thoughtful discussion on the book titled

05:03

Radical Womanhood. Let's dive in. All right. So we have a special, special episode and I have a co -host, which is

05:14

Amy Russo from Grace and Peace Radio. I've had you on before interviewing you about kind of this topic that we're going to be discussing, but we're going to actually get into a book that both of us read on Amy just kind of Facebook me and going, did you read this book?

05:35

And I was like, yes, I did. So I'm pretty passionate about the book and it was nice that you're passionate about the book.

05:41

Yeah. So he was like, let's do an episode, a co -host episode. And it falls right into my

05:47

Titus 2 shows or parts series because one

05:54

I did was the last one that I did was biblical womanhood. What is womanhood period, just defining womanhood.

06:01

And now we can actually talk about biblical womanhood and contrast that with feminism, which again, that's why

06:09

I have you on the show, because you have a little knowledge and background in feminism.

06:15

So we're looking at the book is called Radical Womanhood, Feminine Faith in a Feminist World written by Carolyn McCulley.

06:25

And it's just, we both highly recommend it, but we're going to talk about it because it's such a cool topic to talk about.

06:32

It really is. And this is my second go around with this book. I read it, I don't know, a few years ago.

06:38

I lose track of time and it just struck me. It struck me as how she wrote it and obviously the topics and stuff that we will be talking about.

06:47

But I love the fact it was written in 2008. Ant and I were married in 2007.

06:54

She was saved later in life, as was I. And it just struck me.

07:00

Yeah. Can we talk about a little bit of that history? Not the author.

07:05

We don't have a whole lot of information about her, but at least, yeah, she describes her kind of fall away from feminism a little bit.

07:17

Maybe we could talk about that a little bit. Hers? Yeah. And then yours, because you relate to it.

07:22

Right. Well, I really do, because she was saved. It looks, it sounds like from the book that she was saved at 30.

07:29

I was saved at 42. She was single and continues to be single from what

07:36

I've seen on the web. Career woman doing her thing.

07:42

And as was I, I mean, I was single, you know, not any marriage prospects or anything like that, even thought of it at the time that I was saved and had my career.

07:53

And it was, as she said, it was a huge adjustment thinking about facing and adjusting to biblical womanhood after being saved.

08:02

And it was the same for me, you know, after years and years of having a certain way of thinking about marriage and women and careers and children and all of that.

08:14

Wow. And actually, for me, it took a few years to really kind of get to not accepting biblical womanhood, but understanding it on a biblical basis.

08:24

Yeah. Wow. That's I feel like even though here's the other thing that you and I are kind of different.

08:32

Well, I mean, everybody's different, but you know what I mean? I know what you mean. Yeah. You got married later on in life.

08:40

You do not have kids. I got married very early in life and then

08:46

I had kids, you know. And yet I still feel exactly the same as you.

08:54

Well, maybe I wasn't like I had kind of an idea what biblical womanhood looked like growing up in the church.

09:01

I still had a feminist school upbringing. Right. So even certain things like submission, which we're going to talk about later,

09:11

I struggled with. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why

09:17

I think this is really well, you had mentioned that it was just really cool that both of us can have different coming from different backgrounds and yet tackling the feminine or the feminist issue for both of us.

09:33

There's differences, but similarities that are. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it's well, we're inundated with it.

09:40

And I think what really struck me with this book, and she says it right in her either introduction or first chapter of she was giving talks and she was running into young women that when she was asking questions about what they knew as far as feminist history and this, that and the other.

09:56

And they had absolutely no idea. Part of it just because of their age. Part of it's because they grew up in the church from a very young age and just that just wasn't in their sphere.

10:07

Right. And yet, because it had such an impact on her growing up and it was part of her life.

10:14

And I could see that that was part of my life. There was part of me that was just like, yes, every young woman needs to know that actually every woman needs to know that because we forget.

10:23

Yeah. So that's a good segue into the first part of her book and looking at the kind of the history.

10:34

So you actually studied some of the history in college, but you didn't get as detailed history, right?

10:43

Or like some of the unknown background that she provides. Oh, yeah. I mean, the background and what we'll end up talking about is just even the hypocrisy of some of the main names within these different feminist waves.

10:58

I was exposed to the feminism when I was taking literature classes in college initially as a minor because I like to read.

11:08

So I thought, hey, let's do this. And right from the get go, the feminist ideology was put out there.

11:18

We're going to talk about one of the authors named Charlotte Perkins Gilman.

11:23

I mean, it was one of the first authors that I read taking a literature class. And then when

11:28

I moved into a master's in English, you're getting literary criticism, and then there's a whole genre of feminist literary criticism.

11:36

So that's when I got a little more steeped in it and hook, line and sinker, obviously not saved at that point in my life.

11:46

Right. So let's talk about that then. Why don't you tell me, because I would ask you and I defer to you who knows a little bit more about the history, more than I do, about first wave feminism.

12:02

First wave feminism. Well, it's how she does it is, excuse me, how she does it is pretty much dealing with the start of the country, start of America as a country.

12:17

She mentions Abigail Adams, who was not a feminist. She's quick to say that.

12:24

And I've actually read the biography of John Adams by McCullough. She was not a feminist by any stretch.

12:31

But she fully believed in the fact that she felt that females should be made citizens.

12:37

And so she admonished and encouraged her husband, John Adams, to keep that in mind when they were writing the

12:44

Declaration of Independence and all of that. So you could say that it started there.

12:50

I would say it more started with the idea of women didn't have certain rights.

12:56

And like many things, women's equality, as far as being treated as equal human beings to men was legit.

13:05

I mean, it started for good reasons. It evolved into feminism and really some good has come out of it.

13:13

But the long term consequences have been awful. Yeah. And what I liken it to when

13:18

I do talk to people is I liken it to labor unions, which I'm sure there's some people who would get bent out of shape with me on this.

13:25

But labor unions started out for good reasons. There were very, very necessary, critical changes that needed to be made during the

13:34

Industrial Revolution onward. But like everything else, it got out of hand. People got greedy.

13:39

It lost its reason, really, for being around. So like that, feminism has gone awry.

13:48

So you got really 1848 is what she talks about is really when the first wave started.

13:55

One of the big names is Elizabeth Cady Stanton. That's a name you'll see somewhere in the literature.

14:02

I know I've read Susan B. Anthony was in on that, too. And that might be familiar to some people on the dollar coins that you see every once in a while with Susan B.

14:11

Anthony. But it was Seneca Falls. And the main two things that were brought up was the right to vote, felt that women should have a right to vote.

14:20

Legit, OK, didn't happen till 1920. And the other part that I thought was really interesting is what's called coverture, which means that the legal identity and existence of a woman, her legal identity disappeared once she got married.

14:36

Yeah, right. And that's what they wanted to change. They didn't they didn't want that to happen. So with this legal identity,

14:43

I was just wondering, it's not just a matter of legal identity, but her land and property all passed to the husband.

14:54

Automatically. He had to make all the decisions on that. If she owned property prior to marriage, that was gone.

15:03

She had no say in what happened to that to that property unless she became a widow.

15:10

And that's so, like I said, legit, legit stuff that should have happened.

15:16

It did lead to some reforms. Yet you have to look at the underside. And McCulley even says that it was a challenge to Christianity.

15:26

Right. Stanton was an atheist. And what was your take when you were reading this?

15:31

What was what was your thought process for me when I was reading this? It's like, oh, yeah, I remember that now. Just stuff

15:37

I'd read. How about for you? Oh, I'm reading off the bat, not not understanding the history behind it.

15:47

Just right off the bat, I thought, well, it's just the same sin. I don't think it's a sin that hasn't been the her challenge to Christianity.

16:01

Always dealt underlying was marriage. Right. So it just seems to me like there is always the ship issue was a motivating factor behind it.

16:15

Absolutely. Whether that was really I don't know, you know, Mr. Stanton's heart, but the comments that she made are pretty blatant that they were she wasn't happy with marriage.

16:30

She felt well, you say here in your notes that she felt trapped.

16:36

And so, of course, you know, you're going to if you're feeling trapped under headship and authority, you're going to attack the ultimate authority in that scripture.

16:47

Right. Because and it really does go back to what you said. All of this, all of this that we're going to discuss.

16:54

Yes. The baseline of it is sin. Yeah, it's men overstepping their biblical bounds because dominance was not part of the plan.

17:05

That's not part of God's plan. So in taking headship too far and dominating and not actually leading, there is a difference.

17:14

Right. And then it's the women's sin, the woman's sin of wanting to usurp the husband. Right. And therefore wanting to usurp

17:21

God. Correct. Yeah, I like to, you know, I had to spend some time thinking about, well, where does that mentality come from?

17:32

And I know it's rooted in the fall, you know, and it's part of the curse.

17:37

But then I was thinking the very bare necessity of it, I think it's just coveting for a woman, coveting what her husband that you're your spouse, your most intimate person, that's you're coveting what they have.

17:53

And it's even more become more about coveting power and authority.

18:00

And so much so that it's gone past insisting on being like men.

18:06

It's now moved on that men and women have to be exactly the same, that even now women being a woman has no meaning whatsoever.

18:14

But I mean, we're going to eventually get into that. Yeah, I know it's easy to kind of slide into all the other stuff that just tumbles into this.

18:24

Yeah. So that was pretty much the first wave in a nutshell. And she goes into a little bit more detail.

18:31

But one of the things I like about this book, and the reason I start recommending it to people is it gives you the overview of the waves and overview of feminism without feeling like you're buried in it.

18:40

Yes, I agree with that. I like that she specifically goes after, I think, main women, main women and the underlying attack on scripture and God's authority from the beginning.

18:54

Exactly, exactly. So the second wave kind of happened and I lost the year,

19:01

I think. Oh, yeah, I think there was one. Yeah, it was in the 20s. After World War One, you know, there was just a lot of despair in that.

19:11

You can read that literature, Ernest Hemingway, the lost generation, they call themselves a very existential, almost nihilistic of there is no meaning to life.

19:22

And then when this just sort of rolled into various things and feminism was one of it, one of the pieces, the key person in that one, and I'm going to butcher her name because I don't do

19:34

French. It's Simone de Beauvoir, I think is how you say it. I think you're right.

19:41

I'm going to just refer to her as Simone. So I only have to try to deal with the last name once. But she was a big deal in the feminist movement with her book published in 1949 called

19:55

The Second Sex. Yeah, she's a fascinating, she fascinated me. I had to go look up and watch a couple of things on her.

20:03

Yeah, she really was. And she was, when I was doing the feminist literary criticism, obviously, she was a one of the main, main characters.

20:11

I ended up, no, I don't, there's a lot I've forgotten, but I studied more about her than even

20:17

Betty Friedan that we'll talk about. I know of the Feministique. I didn't read any of that where I had read bits and pieces of The Second Sex.

20:28

What was very interesting about Simone is that she was in an open relationship with another philosopher, very well known at the time, named

20:36

Jean -Paul Sartre. They were in what they called an open relationship for 51 years.

20:42

Yeah, back then, that was taboo. That was horrifying to the public.

20:50

And honestly, it should be horrifying to us today, given what we know. And, you know, some feminists now even are just disgusted with her once they read a lot of her letters and different things after she had died.

21:04

But this open relationship, non -monogamous, you know, just free for both.

21:11

But again, what we find with a lot of these things is the hypocrisy behind it.

21:18

As I wrote on my notes, this is that McCulley said is, ironically, for the end of her life, she,

21:25

Simone, said that nothing she achieved in her professional life was as great as her relationship with Sartre.

21:32

Mm hmm. And you can read more details in the book of just that background and just how

21:38

I say sordid because it's just so lost and so pitiful. McCulley is very good at trying to not get too detailed on some of these things because she doesn't want to focus on that.

21:50

But it really just was pitiful. And for all this openness and all this devotion that she had to him when he died,

21:57

I think 1980, somewhere in there, he cut her out of his will completely, left his whole estate to whatever the latest whoever the latest mistress was.

22:07

Yeah, my goodness. And yeah, just just pitiful. But what pushed forward with with her writing and this book called

22:16

The Second Sex is the whole idea of woman as other. Right. And you will see that carry on through everything else in feminism coming down the line.

22:27

And you'll even see hear it in in race theory, the idea of other.

22:33

Yeah, that's it's they've borrowed it from that. You know, her idea that we we as women are defined in reference to man and not in reference to ourselves.

22:43

Right. I mean, I don't quite grasp that they despise that so much.

22:50

I want to pull away from it. But they're the ones making that claim to begin with, it seems to me.

22:56

Say in what way? Well, like to say that they're they're trying to say like, again, it's down to this coveting something that they are lower.

23:11

They are acknowledging that they are lower than a man. And yet that's something that they despise.

23:21

If I was looking at this, I would never think, well, that I'm lower or other than a man.

23:29

And maybe I'm just misunderstanding what the other technically means. It's like, yeah, it's just a lower class being right that because of the oppression, the oppression and I do using air quotes here because of the the oppression from man, the patriarchy here that constantly that is why we are other.

23:52

And so that's how we we look at ourselves. And I even though I bought into this, even as a nonbeliever,

23:59

I wasn't raised that way. So in some ways, it was a foreign concept. Honestly, what

24:04

I did find with feminism sometimes, and even when I look back on it, it was like sort of like looking for trouble.

24:10

OK, so, yeah, that's kind of what I what I like meant. I'm thinking of, you know, how a critical race theory makes you go and look at the patriarchy and now everything is centered on race.

24:26

Exactly. Looking through racialized. So it's almost the same like,

24:31

OK, so you're talking about the patriarchy and that you are this other. And now everything that happens to you is because you are the other and not the head.

24:43

Well, and it goes back to victimhood that we're that we're somehow a victim. And as you and I both know, as daughters of, you know,

24:52

God the father, we're just we are human beings. You know, we're not we're not other.

24:59

We're not lesser. That isn't how God made us. That's not his intention. And it says right in Scripture that, you know, it says right in Scripture that he created us equal, equal.

25:10

We have different roles and we'll get more into that later on. Yeah. OK, good.

25:16

Did you want to go into Betty Friedan a little bit or do you want to go ahead? No, no.

25:22

Yeah, I think you're doing a great job. I feel like I'm talking too much. No, no, it's fine.

25:28

I like I said, the history behind it, I feel like, you know, it more understand it more because you had you read these ladies.

25:35

Yeah. And I and I just want people to realize what, you know, and we'll get more into some of the things that have fallen apart and actually how the church had a hand in some of that by not standing up for certain things.

25:47

But having this other history, I think, is helpful. Betty Friedan, she's kind of considered still part of the second wave.

25:55

She wrote The Feminine Mystique in 1963. I think the second sex came to the

26:01

U .S. and English in the 50s. I didn't write that down, but McCulley's got it in the book.

26:07

And Friedan is famous for saying that women were trying to live up to an ideal which left them feeling, quote, trapped, bored and depressed.

26:16

Yeah. And she founded several feminist organizations. She co -founded

26:21

NOW. I think Steinem, I went back to try to look for that. And I couldn't for the life of me find the page in it.

26:28

But Gloria Steinem, another well -known feminist. Right. I think she helped co -founded, co -found

26:34

NOW as well. Friedan helped co -found NARAL, N -A -R -A -L, which is dealing with abortion rights.

26:42

Right. And she also helped co -found the National Women's Political Caucus. So in her mind, activism was the way to go.

26:49

Her hypocrisy was she vilified marriage. She ended up divorced, badmouthed her ex -husband to the point that, you know, she intimated that he hit her and then later backed off on that.

27:02

I couldn't even imagine what this... Before the Me Too movement, I felt bad what he had to deal with.

27:09

Yeah. But while she vilified marriage, later in her life, she'd had children.

27:15

I think she had four children. Might be wrong on that. Quite a few grandchildren. Later, she said she believes in marriage, intimacy and family.

27:22

She said that they have value. And she hoped that her grandchildren would marry and have children.

27:28

What a turn. I know. I know. It's like, what happens there?

27:33

But again, it's... And she didn't even do it. She died not that long ago, relatively speaking.

27:41

But just that hopelessness of all of it. Right. I mean, to me, it's not looking at the hypocrisy at waving my finger and saying, see, you guys are hypocrites.

27:51

What I look at it with the hypocrisy is just how pitiful it is. Yeah. That it's saddening that they actually realized some truth.

28:01

There came to some understanding about the role and importance of a woman, especially in the home and just all around.

28:10

Her work in general and society is just so important. And then they fight against it instead of honoring it and glorifying it in a way.

28:21

To only turn around. Yeah. And I definitely see it, especially with Friedan and her saying that she believes in marriage, intimacy and family.

28:29

You think of Romans 1. Right. The Lord has put the world out there that he created.

28:36

And we have this inside us. We just choose to deny it and shake our fist at it.

28:43

But it's there. And so that's kind of how I see that. What I saw as an overall irony in this progression, and this is this is a generalization and maybe an oversimplification, but even

28:58

McCulley mentioned it or McCulley did mention it. So I picked up on it was first you have

29:04

Abigail Adams, who was not a feminist, but she wanted rights, full rights for female citizens.

29:11

New country. Let them be able to vote. They're part of the economy. Right. Working alongside their husband.

29:18

So she felt full rights for female citizens. Elizabeth Cady Stanton, suffrage and reform and marriage laws, quite legitimate.

29:28

Now, again, she took it too far. But in that piece, by the time we get to Friedan, I think I'm saying her name correctly.

29:34

It all has to do with boredom. Nothing awful's happening around. But women were bored with home, husband and children.

29:42

Yeah. And in fact, I find that interesting. Her timing, you know, writing

29:48

The Feminine Mystique in 1963, we're looking at sometime after what we're going to talk about the golden to miss the golden age of domesticity.

30:01

Yeah. I never say domesticity right twice. So so and it's it's funny because McCulley goes not funny.

30:11

It's very interesting that McCulley points out what's going on during the history and this golden age.

30:18

And then you have your it's it's is it during or after the

30:24

Industrial Revolution? It kind of blended. I was trying to figure out if there was a line of delineation and there's really not kind of like a lot of things in history.

30:34

Right. And then at that point, it's after the golden age, you start to see the home is changed.

30:44

It's no longer about work out of the home. It's work in the industrial complex.

30:51

And so the home becomes very self -centered and just you're not they of course, if you're not a

30:57

Christian, you're not going to look at the home as a place to minister to your family. It's a place to, you know, satisfy your needs and your comforts and stuff like that.

31:09

And so you're not doing anything special to society. No, and that's devalued by society because everything is about what does it what value does it add to the marketplace?

31:19

Correct. What value does it actual monetary value? Does it give to the economy as a whole?

31:25

And what was seen by society and feminists is that the women in the home added no value.

31:33

Right, right. That's that's where we see starting to have a lot more problems.

31:39

I mean, there was a lot and I think that's where we start to see problems come into the church.

31:45

Yes, I think is an issue. Okay. So, so let's talk. Tell me about the third wave then to third wave will probably hit more of that because there's not a solid line on the third wave as I was trying to she ends up then blending it into a later chapter.

32:03

It's not as well documented, but you can see it in pop culture. And it's also called raunch culture.

32:11

As McCulley noted, and actually as what some feminists had noted, not believers is women making horribly wrong choices, quote unquote, in the name of sexual liberation.

32:23

So it was really in in this time and you saw it in the 20s. So like, again, like a lot of things history tends to blend during the roaring 20s.

32:33

This idea of sexual liberation was there, but it wasn't in your face.

32:40

Right. By now, we're talking about early 1990s. You've got TV, you've got videos, you know, the whole social media thing is starting to come about.

32:51

The sexual revolution is already taking place in the 60s, 70s. Right. Exactly. That's exactly it.

32:58

So women now decide that the way to empower themselves is to literally reveal themselves.

33:07

And, you know, the example she uses is a video that was wildly popular.

33:14

I remember when it was on. I never watched them. Yeah. Everybody's probably heard of them.

33:20

The girls gone wild. Girls gone wild. And yeah. And as I say, it was essentially free porn.

33:28

Yeah. McCulloch. That's my word. McCulloch, I'm pretty sure. Right. But I just remember that.

33:34

And women were considered empowered if they were in any type of the sex trade.

33:39

Yeah. And they still are now. Now, because, you know, they're still trying to make it legal.

33:45

Right. Well, for a long time, it was, you know, well, women were going into the sex trade, whether it was pornography and magazines or movies or then the

33:57

Internet, prostitution, that they were doing this of their own volition, that they had all the power behind in doing this.

34:06

In some cases, that's true. But as I think we've seen, there's been a backlash on that, because remember, this was written in 2008 or published in 2008.

34:17

There has been a backlash in that in where society now sees that a lot of times women aren't going into these areas willingly.

34:27

And that's a whole topic unto itself. But yeah, exactly. Human trafficking, domestic abuse, just women feeling trapped and forced into these.

34:37

And, you know, I can attest to that. I helped out with a ministry when we were in Kentucky. And, you know,

34:43

I saw some of that stuff firsthand. So it's no joke. I mean, it's it's a really bad scene and there's there's no empowerment to it.

34:52

Right. There really isn't. But it's all out there. I mean, and marketing just lands right in.

34:59

I mean, good grief, the commercials you see now. Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah. We can't even get into detail because it's so disgusting.

35:07

Yeah. But it's marketing to young girls. Yeah. You know, you see it with, I mean, little girls, six year olds where, you know, they're marketing bras or marketing high heels, you know, bikinis.

35:21

It's it's just ridiculous. But we're empowered. Right. Somehow we're empowered with all of that.

35:27

And we're supposedly empowering our daughters with that from the get go. And they don't even see that it's a lie.

35:34

It's well, here's one of those things, too, that I think about that we're getting into modesty and talking about just my see doesn't even exist anymore.

35:49

There's it. It's almost seen as if you are a modest girl, a young teenage and you're modest, not only in character, but you're modest in dress.

36:02

You are seen as like you're right. Like you're not empowered.

36:08

You don't have I don't want to say you don't have value, but.

36:14

Well, you're stuffy. And what do you what's legalistic or not in the

36:20

Christian community? That's that's the way it is. And so this is a very hot topic about the way women present themselves so freely.

36:31

Now, it's even worse on social media, right? Because. Oh, yeah. Wasn't there? I don't know if you know.

36:37

There was not too long ago, several months ago, early on in the year. There was an explosion because a

36:43

Christian brother said, you know, hey, ladies, you don't need to show off yourself in a bikini, practically naked, even if you're pregnant or you're trying to show off your weight loss.

36:56

These are things that you don't need to do. It'd be one thing to know. It's not even one thing like back in my day.

37:03

Maybe you'd show a picture to a friend or two and say, hey, look, this is my before and after after.

37:09

And now it's like I'll tell the in to the open. I'm saying that sharing my picture.

37:15

I never did that, but I'm just saying, you know, I agree. It's it's just it's considered the norm and people don't even think twice about it.

37:23

I remember when Anthony and I were part of Weight Watchers and it was, you know, you had the app and part of the app was this attaboy kind of, you know, encouraging one another in weight loss.

37:38

I didn't even think anything about it. That's the whole female mindset. Until Anth brought it to my mind that he said, yeah,

37:46

I can't even look at that. He says, because like you said, women are showing before and after pictures and they're in their underwear.

37:53

He says, I don't need to see that. Right. Well, that's true. Right. Well, I believed all this stuff.

38:00

Right. Well, and I don't know if that's a like a failure and women kind of understanding that, you know, men are wired differently that we start to believe that we're the same.

38:15

We women just don't. I mean, we have our lusts with we're sinful creatures to looking at a body and being attracted to it as in its lust.

38:27

But we're not like a man is it's not it's not the same. And so part of respecting it and being modest is understanding that there's like she even talks about brains are pretty much the same.

38:45

But what does she say that they're just they're just why or take in information differently?

38:52

Yes, take in information differently. We're still we're we're both of equal intelligence. Right. It's just how we process things and how we do things are different.

39:01

Right. And, you know, before I was saved, I, I fully I couldn't understand why I couldn't communicate with men.

39:08

Well, because I thought that we would communicate the same that if I just tried hard enough, this guy was going to think the same way

39:16

I thought and I was going to understand how he thought and did things. And it took forever for me to realize that ain't how it works, because that's not how

39:24

God wired us. Right. And coming in, if if if young adults realize this grow up understanding that men and women are wired differently, they, you know, they're more sensitive to images, images.

39:42

Yeah. And then we are and communication is different. If we understand this, instead of trying to make everybody all the same men and females, all the same, that can eliminate quite a bit of problems in marriage.

39:58

Absolutely. Oh, yeah, it would it would help so much with communication. And one thing I want to say, too, for for those who are listening and it doesn't matter age of thinking even some of the young women, but all of us and and I struggled with this to this whole idea of modesty.

40:14

It doesn't mean that you don't try to look nice. You know, single girls, single ladies, whatever terminology you want me to use.

40:24

You can still look nice. That's not the point. It's the point is what are you focused on in looking nice?

40:32

You don't have to be frumpy. You don't have to be dowdy. You can look nice for your husband. You can just look nice in general because, you know, it's part of what makes us feel good.

40:40

You know, got a good hair day going, those kinds of things. There's nothing wrong with that.

40:46

But as John MacArthur said in a little pamphlet he's got on modesty, it's like, what is what is your heart?

40:53

What is your mindset? Are you trying to make the attention all on you? And if you're trying to make that attention on you, what part of you are you trying to?

41:02

Right. What do you want them to look at them? Obviously, meaning men or even women, you know, as far as I don't know, inspiring jealousy and the whatever, it's really like anything else in life and anything else in your

41:18

Christian life is what what's your heart motive? Right. Exactly. Behind it. Yeah. So when we say modest ladies, we're not talking, you know, dressing.

41:27

Yeah. Neck to ankles kind of thing. Right. Right. That is definitely not what we're talking about.

41:35

But there is definitely a different mindset from when I was a nonbeliever and bought into the lie that exposing myself was somehow powerful and didn't make me any more powerful.

41:50

If anything, it made me more vulnerable. And I just didn't want to admit that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's something people don't think about.

41:57

You might feel like you have power because you can control a man for a certain amount of time.

42:04

But the respect, you're basically giving up respect for a short time.

42:11

Absolutely. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. So, you know, as far as we're, you know, and even in what we talk about with this branch culture, you know, people want to blame, well, it's the men, you know, it's the men that's creating this content.

42:25

And the one person that Macaulay was quoting, who is a nonbeliever feminist, she found out that, no, it wasn't the men that were all creating this content.

42:34

There are women behind creating this content. Right. This blew me away. This part when she talked about, you know,

42:41

Hugh Hefner and Playboy. And his daughter. Yeah. That the women were behind most of it for so long.

42:50

Yeah. Absolutely. I know. I know. I think I had heard that Hefner's daughter was in charge, but I didn't realize how many other women were in higher roles within that corporation, which is really what it is.

43:03

It was definitely a corporation. Right. And what we see with third wave that we'll get into more in our next time is that it really had the goals spoken or otherwise of eliminating marriage and eliminating biology.

43:17

Yeah. You really see that come out. I mean, it's and the result is what we live with the result.

43:24

It's. Absolutely. They've done exactly what they wanted to do and are still not satisfied with it, though.

43:30

No. No, not at all. I like what you have in your notes here towards the end.

43:36

You say bottom line, it's a spiritual battle. It's a spiritual battle within ourselves.

43:44

But it's definitely a spiritual battle in the world. Correct. Right. I had in my notes, of course,

43:52

I've got to find them now that feminism itself, the verse that I was thinking of, or she actually quotes, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

44:13

That's Ephesians 6, 12, as she quoted. And my note was here is, yeah, feminism is most definitely a cosmic power that rules this dark age.

44:23

It is a spiritual force of evil that invades the heavenly places. It invades the church.

44:29

It has invaded the church. And I think I'll be, I mean, there's other things at play here, but I definitely think that feminism has a huge role, even in critical theory and which leads to critical race theory.

44:48

So it's just, if you start to do your research, look who's behind and who the writings and who's connected with who, you start to really see the tendrils and they're all just in this.

45:03

I hate to, I don't hate to say it. It's true. It's just a cesspool of evil cosmic power that we have to wrestle with and deal with.

45:17

And I want to emphasize too, that as you and I are discussing this, the reason that this resonated for both of us is that it's all about discernment.

45:27

It's why you started your podcast Thoroughly Equipped. We have a responsibility as believers and as women believers to be discerning.

45:37

So it's not us bashing the culture or saying this person or that person is bad.

45:42

It is bad. But what we want to put out there is that you need to open your eyes and be aware.

45:49

I mean, I spent 40 years, you know, I was 42 buying into all of this.

45:56

And it's the loneliest thing you could possibly be into if you really stop and admit to it.

46:03

And I just don't want to see others get wrapped up in that. And I really hate to see it in the church because it's all moving away from scripture.

46:13

And I had to fight tooth and nail for myself in my own spiritual battle, in my own selfishness, and wicked heart to embrace scripture and to understand that it was

46:23

God breathed. It is God's word. Right, right. And it drives me crazy when people move away from that.

46:30

Yeah, yeah. And I just going back to it, it really ties together with what you said or what even

46:38

Macaulay stated right in the very beginning that it's sin, right?

46:43

That it was started, fear of men sinning, or yes, men were sinning against women.

46:53

And yet women respond by sinning back instead of holding on to God's word.

47:05

Um, so what is she quotes here, or it was always from the very beginning work, working to undermine the authority of God.

47:16

She quotes on page 60. Every one of us is prone to agree with Satan's character assassination of God.

47:24

We often chafe at the good boundaries God has given us. We are easily tempted to think the worst of God.

47:33

So down in the very, very root, you know, we might hold a thought, say, this is the authority.

47:40

God's word is the authority and we submit to the authority. But the very, very bottom is a lack of faith period.

47:47

And sure, good. Absolutely. And, and if all of us as believers think about it, when we, we hit a trial and I'm, I battle this all the time.

47:55

Um, when things go south, it's a battle to not say, Lord, why? I mean, we can ask the

48:01

Lord, why? Let me back up on that. We're allowed to ask the Lord why we're allowed to lament.

48:09

Bad things that are going on at us or around us. Um, but we're not allowed to shake our fist at God and say, how dare you?

48:17

Right. As if we knew better. Right, right. Exactly. Because we don't see the cosmic picture.

48:24

Right. And so that's a good segue into the next portion that we have on our notes is about submission and really, um, what submission is in, in the way, um, she talks about Ephesians five.

48:42

She brings up that, um, and we'll get into that, um, in a bit, but I was thinking right off the bat in connection with what you just said and how it's, um, we not shaking our fist at God and we don't know the cosmic picture.

48:56

And it is really essentially about faith. Uh, I immediately go to the

49:01

Proverbs 31 women where she, she laughs, um, of the days ahead.

49:07

She's without fear because she knows who her God is and she trusts in him.

49:12

And so it makes it so, um, then she can submit to a husband, um, because she's submitting to whatever

49:22

God has placed in her life. Exactly. That was where that was a big eye opening for me because I really struggled with submission.

49:32

Um, it was always, it was always this where, okay, I understood

49:38

Ephesians five and I understood that the man's role to be ahead and be a leader is a heavy weight and it's, you know, yes.

49:46

So, uh, submit to Christ by leading and laying down his life for his family.

49:53

But I was always like, well, he's not doing that. So I'm not going to submit if he's not doing that.

50:01

Right. And, um, it was, uh, what is it? Second Peter, first Peter.

50:06

I had it written down. Um, and my own notes that talks about submitting first Peter three, two talks about submitting even to an unbelieving husband or a husband that is disobedient.

50:19

Um, that's where I was just like, okay, my submission is not about whether or not he's obedient.

50:26

My submission is about my trust in Christ, my trust in God, the father taking care and sanctifying me through whatever trials, you know, anyway.

50:37

So I just thought, I'm glad she brought that up. Um, no, I think that's, that's a good point.

50:42

And I, I think like you, I, I struggled with that. Um, I struggled with that even in premarital counseling at 45 years old, um, because of the background that I had, you know, the whole idea of trust honor or honor, trust, honor and obey.

51:01

Um, or however the thing is, it was the obey that was, you know, and I had to have this discussion with the pastor at the time on that one.

51:09

And yeah, that's when he pointed out the other part of Ephesians five, that's the much weightier issue.

51:15

Now, knowing that in my head and living that out as a wife, whole, whole big different thing.

51:22

How's that for great English, especially when, you know, there, there are going to be times that even if you have a husband who's a godly man and is in the word, um, and, and wants to lead well, there's going to be times he's not.

51:39

Yeah. Just as there's times I'm not submitting right or well, there's times he's not going to lead well.

51:44

But it's exactly like you said, it's my job is to be obedient to Christ and, and to God, um, and then pray the rest of it comes along and he honors that and he gives grace.

51:57

Yeah. And she, she has a good, uh, quote in regards to just that she says on page 64, let's be honest, submitting to and respecting a husband who leads and loves like Christ is the easier the two, two roles.

52:10

But in reality, no human husband ever perfectly fulfills those commands that leaves a wife with the challenge of respecting and submitting to a flawed husband.

52:20

In fact, that surely didn't escape the Holy Spirit's notice when he inspired these verses and exactly.

52:30

Yeah. Yeah. And in regards to that, there's another quote that I loved and I might as well bring that up now because it's in connection to it.

52:39

I'm trying to find it. Um, and it's kind of long. Do you mind if I read it?

52:45

Yeah, please do. Okay. So it's, um, it's on page, where did

52:51

I drew it? Page 89. She says, though, every wife has a married man with a unique background and gifts and personality.

53:01

Every wife has one thing in common. Her husband is an imperfect man. No woman has a spouse who never gives her reason for legitimate complaint.

53:10

This presents you with a spiritual challenge. You'll have to fight the natural human tendency to obsess over your husband's weaknesses.

53:17

That was me, by the way. And I highlighted that exact same thing. Did you? Yep. Yeah, I think it's probably every wife.

53:26

So when you urge, when I urge you to affirm your husband's strengths, I'm not minimizing his many weaknesses.

53:34

I'm just encouraging you to make the daily spiritual choice of focusing on qualities for which you feel thankful.

53:42

The time will come when you can address the weaknesses after you've established a firm foundation of love and encouragement.

53:48

For now, you must make a conscious choice to give thanks for his strengths. I have found

53:55

Philippians 4, 8 as a relevant as relevant for marriage as it is for life.

54:01

Whatever is true. Whatever is noble. Whatever is right. Whatever is pure. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is admirable.

54:08

If anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about these things. Observing your husband's weaknesses won't make them go away.

54:17

You may have done that for years. And if so, what has it gotten you besides more of the same?

54:23

Leslie Vernick Lawrence, regularly thinking negatively about your husband increases your dissatisfaction with him and your marriage.

54:34

That is incredibly true. I mean, it's such a simple statement, but it's so true. Oh, absolutely. Affirming your husband's strengths, however, will likely reinforce and build up those areas you cherish and motivate him to pursue excellence of character and other.

54:50

Now, talk about power. What amount of power do we have to influence one of the most important people in our lives?

54:59

Absolutely. Just by honoring them, honoring our husband and respecting him and verbalizing that honor and respect.

55:09

Right. We don't understand. It's not just we don't need to wield power just by the way we look, but use our words and our encouragement as well.

55:19

Continuing on, she says, guys, rise to praise. When someone compliments us, we want to keep that person's positive opinion.

55:27

Oh, this isn't McCulley quoting. That's Gary Thomas. Yes, thank you.

55:33

But she's using his quote. We love how it feels when our wives respect us. We get a rush like nothing else when we hear her praise or see that look of awe in her eyes, and we will all but travel the ends of the earth to keep it coming.

55:49

At the beginning of this chapter, I use. Oh, sorry. That's the end of his quote. So now it's McCulley speaking.

55:55

At the beginning of this chapter, I use the analogy of a fellow paddler in a white water raft for a wife's role.

56:01

It takes a lot of strength to paddle in turbulent water and stay in the boat. In marriage, it takes a lot of strength of character to be a helpmate as the

56:11

Bible describes it and not bail on the marriage. But you're not doing it alone or in your own strength.

56:17

Never forget that the encouragement, correction, submission, honor, respect and appreciation that you give your husband each day are lavishly supplied by the one who is also your help helper.

56:32

That's the end of the quote. That was just that was beautiful because I was

56:37

I think I was probably reading this and dealing with girlfriends who just tend to put down their husbands, always complaining about the way the husbands treat them.

56:51

And I can sympathize. I understand. I don't have the perfect spouse either.

56:59

So I understand that complaining sometimes help us feel better knowing that we have girlfriends who can relate and all this thing.

57:06

But then I was thinking, well, but if that's constantly what you're doing, you're never going about going, well, wait a second.

57:15

My husband, like he did the dishes today or he went to work and provided.

57:23

Provided for the family. Yeah. Did what he does without complaint, you know, or complaint in regards to working and stuff like that.

57:34

And so it was just like a good reminder for me to be like, you know, this is where I can help my girlfriends out and start saying, look, let's let's start talking good.

57:47

Let's start thinking about the good things that our husbands do. And then this goes into the other note that you said on your notes about being a helper.

57:59

Being a helper. And but one thing I want to also say, too, is that for our single friends. Oh, good point.

58:05

Our single lady friends don't tune out right now when we're talking about submission, because whether you realize it or not, feminism has influenced what and how you think about relationships.

58:17

And, you know, if you watch TV, you watch movies, you interact with or on social media at all, it's all there.

58:25

And so you need to have this information if the Lord chooses to provide a husband for you at some point down the road.

58:32

Right. But also, even if the Lord chooses to not provide a husband for you, that, you know, that isn't what's going to happen.

58:40

You still need to learn to think biblically because you're going to run into the girlfriends who are going to want to complain about their husband or being married or whatever aspect of that is.

58:50

And you need to be discerning and you need to be well -versed in scripture and what

58:56

God says about these relationships so that you can biblically counsel. Yeah, because we're all supposed to be able to do that.

59:03

I was going to say, I think the single, especially the older single women being outside of marriage because we women can think we're not going to excuse you and say, oh, you don't know because you're not married.

59:17

No, it's actually you have a view that you can see from outside because we sometimes we have our wife lenses on where we don't get to, we don't see the other side.

59:33

So a single woman or a friend who's single can kind of level that out and be like, well, have you thought about his side?

59:45

She doesn't technically, oh, sorry. She doesn't technically take sides. Right. You know, that's kind of why we feed off each other.

59:54

That's exactly it. Absolutely. So it really is important whether you're single or married.

01:00:02

And, you know, and the other thing that you have to remember, everybody, every woman's got to remember as far as submission is concerned, we submit to our husbands.

01:00:10

We obviously submit to authority, you know, within the church and whatnot. Submission doesn't mean that because I'm female,

01:00:18

I have to submit to every male that's out there. That's not right, not biblical.

01:00:24

So and you started to say something before, before I jumped into that, I don't remember what it was. It was getting onto the helper and it kind of falls into well, not not kind of falls a little bit into line still under the submission.

01:00:40

You made you noted here that you are a helpmate to your husband, how important that is to be called a helper.

01:00:48

And he mentions it, the gentleman who we just quoted about being a helper.

01:00:55

Yeah, because when the Lord provides a husband to us, I'm a helpmate to my husband.

01:01:01

And, you know, in Genesis, I will make a helper fit for him. Right. That means coming alongside equal, but different in ways in which we complement each other.

01:01:12

And unfortunately, what feminism has done is they have equated roles as worth.

01:01:19

So I'm equal to my husband, men and women are equal to one another. That's how God made us.

01:01:25

But my role is different than my husband's role. And it goes back to the whole idea of the study that was done that there's no difference in IQ or intelligence.

01:01:36

But our brains as men and women function and process differently. So we are designed to function differently.

01:01:44

And if you think about it in an orderly world in which God created because he is the God of order, not of chaos, he is now meshed and made as a compliment to one another how a man's brain and a woman's brain works.

01:01:57

And that's why we can be helpmates. I'm gesturing here like, yeah, your people are going to see that.

01:02:03

But anyhow, I can't help but not. They can use their imagination. They can.

01:02:09

Just think of my arms flailing around. That's kind of what I do. Not really. They were more meshed.

01:02:15

Well, that's true. I was doing like the whole, you know, here's the church, never mind. It's kind of like that.

01:02:23

Yeah, kind of like that. Well, I mean, because it's like Christ and the church is marriage, you know. Well, hey.

01:02:29

Oh, good. Very good. You save that one. I like that. Yeah.

01:02:38

But what our point was is that roles do not equate worth. We are of equal worth.

01:02:43

Right. And that's what feminism will try to tear apart. Right. And I think they start a part of me and I'm just guessing, but it's like coveting.

01:02:54

They're just coveting the roles because they don't understand the value of a woman.

01:03:01

It just, I guess it blows my mind now knowing just how beautiful womanhood is in the

01:03:11

Bible. It is such an honor to be a woman and to be a godly woman, especially she's the

01:03:21

Proverbs 31 woman is absolutely powerful woman. Yeah.

01:03:27

So, but yeah. Well, and look at, you know, wisdom in Proverbs is personified as a woman.

01:03:35

Yeah. You know, Jesus was, you know, he treated women.

01:03:40

He allowed women to follow him and they were part of his disciples. He valued women and God of the

01:03:49

Old Testament did as well. I mean, if you really read the Bible and that's the key, reading the

01:03:54

Bible. That's important. It is and not just cherry picking. You will see that.

01:04:01

And believe me, I'm one of the people that didn't want to see that. You know, so, but it really is.

01:04:09

It's two sinners living under one roof. Yeah. You know, as you and I have even have discussed. Things are going to clash and you're going to have to work it out.

01:04:18

And that's why scripture is there for us. And, you know, what I've learned over the years of marriage and I'm sure you have too is that when

01:04:25

I show respect to my husband and for the decisions he makes, even if they end up being the wrong decisions, that's still strengthening the marriage.

01:04:34

And it's still respecting and honoring my husband and who he is as God made him.

01:04:41

Do I pray for improvements for him, you know, in godliness and in leadership? Of course

01:04:46

I do. And I'm sure he prays for me, for ways for me to improve and submit, which

01:04:51

I've definitely had to do over the years. Well, we know your husband's a righteous man because his prayers have been answered.

01:05:04

That's awesome. He'll get a kick out of that one. Only because of Christ.

01:05:10

Just saying. Yes, exactly. Absolutely. Oh, that's too funny. I love it.

01:05:15

But just one more thing on this one is on page 84, she had a quote that leadership is not about filling a position for one's own glory, but for serving

01:05:25

God's gospel purposes. I loved that quote. I did because it puts the leadership where it belongs, which is with Christ.

01:05:35

Because again, there's women that are going to think, well, I'm, you know, I have leadership qualities. We can have leadership qualities, but that doesn't make you the leader.

01:05:43

Right. Right. If that makes sense. Right. And not only that, I think what's fascinating is the goal of submission has the same purpose, the gospel.

01:05:57

You know, so it's like leadership. They lead about serving

01:06:04

God and expanding the gospel, giving the gospel.

01:06:14

But so submission is all you submit because of the gospel for the gospel.

01:06:21

Exactly. It's just beautiful the way that is.

01:06:27

And I didn't see that it was submitting to just because I was told to.

01:06:35

Right. That's really what it was. Sure. That's early, married early and then reading the

01:06:43

Bible and then being like, well, OK, God called me to submit. I better obey. And now I find that like, again,

01:06:50

I can't keep going back to first Peter, that the meek and quiet spirit can win a husband over.

01:06:57

And that means, OK, it's about my submission to him as an example to him, a gospel example to him.

01:07:04

And that helps sanctify him. I don't know how God does it because it doesn't make sense to me.

01:07:10

No, of course. Of course. It's beautiful. Oh, it really is. And it really does mirror that we're submitting to Christ.

01:07:19

And our husbands have to submit to Christ. So they've got their own submission. And actually, we can't get into it, but even at the beginning of that chapter in Ephesians, maybe earlier on in Ephesians, but Paul really talks about submitting to one another in Christ.

01:07:36

Right. So these are just sort of some of the subheadings. It's the way it's played out for these roles.

01:07:44

The government, the husband, the wife, the children and the servant.

01:07:49

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, yeah, exactly. Master and servant for our roles in the workplace.

01:07:57

So it really is a beautiful thing. And it works. Again, it's God's order.

01:08:03

Yeah. His orderliness and it works. Yeah. You can't do anything but praise

01:08:09

God when you see it work in your marriage. Really, it builds your faith. It really does.

01:08:16

Yeah. It has with me. Oh, yeah. I mean, but you have to be open to it. You have to be willing to.

01:08:23

I mean, I remember one particular time I was like, Lord, change his heart. Lord, change his heart on this one particular issue. Please change his heart.

01:08:29

I finally had to turn around after a few weeks and say, OK, Lord, change my heart. Yeah. If I'm wrong, if this is if this is not the direction you want, please change my heart.

01:08:40

And in this particular case, that's what had to happen. Right. So but he's also done the same for Anth where he's changed his heart on things.

01:08:51

So it's all about it's all about God and his glory and his honor. Yeah. And in the end, we'll all see how it all worked out anyway.

01:09:00

That's exactly right. Yeah. So, yeah, I think we

01:09:05

I think that was good for part one. Yeah. The next part will be just as interesting. We'll get into even more history, but more looking at,

01:09:13

I think, the the environment like we looked at feminism, but now she gets into how the home is affected.

01:09:21

And that's an interesting one to me. That's fascinating. There were there are parts of that that I had no idea about.

01:09:27

So me, me too. Yeah. And the impact we're feeling it now. Yeah. So that should be an interesting conversation.

01:09:35

So very much. People want to turn it. Tune in. Please do. This is fun.

01:09:41

It always is. It's always fun with you, Amy. I enjoy our conversations.

01:09:47

I know we can talk forever. That's OK. We're going to have another forever talk. Yes, exactly.

01:09:53

Exactly. Now this is good. All right. Well, until next time, then. Take care all.

01:10:00

Yeah. Bye. Well, ladies, I hope that was as interesting to listen to as it was to talk about.

01:10:09

And until next time, I pray you are growing in your faith through the knowledge and understanding of Christ, our

01:10:16

Lord and Savior. I pray that you are in his word. Ladies, if you are interested in the transcript for this episode, you can go to TTEW .org.

01:10:37

You can find other great resources, articles, blogs and videos that may bless you in your

01:10:42

Christian walk, as well as links to follow me on social media. If you wish to contact me, you can email me at ThoroughlyEquipped316 at gmail .com.

01:10:54

Again, the website address is TTEW .org. Thoroughly Equipped is part of Striving for Eternity's Christian podcast community.

01:11:05

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