Has an Atheist Ever Blown My Mind?

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Well, hello there. Welcome to a live stream. Yeah, I'm live.

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This is a Q &A that we set up because we have hit 2 ,000 subscribes.

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Yeah, that's right. 2 ,000. 2 ,000 subscribes.

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Cool. And what I wanted to do was I just wanted to commemorate this moment and thank you all for, you know, subscribing and staying in line with what we're up to here.

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I wanted to invite a very special guest to mark this tremendous occasion. You may know him from movies like Face Off, from Ghost Rider.

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It's the one and only Nicholas Cage. Nicholas, here's Nicholas. Yeah. It's my friend here.

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What's that? What's that, Nicholas? Ha, ha, ha, ha, Nick. Well, anyway, he's very excited as well that we're here, that we did it.

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Hello, CounterCulture, Callum. Yes, sir. Well, anyway, let's go ahead and jump right into these questions, you guys.

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So I posted in the community tab, I posted a bunch of... I posted a request for a bunch of your questions that I could answer and you didn't let me down.

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You asked a lot of questions, so let me just go ahead and jump in with these questions one at a time here. Here's the first question.

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Oh, I'm sorry. Before anything else, before I say anything else, I'm supposed to tell you that you should definitely check out our

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Wise Disciple store. So we have merch where you can get cool things. Take that graphic off.

02:27

There you go. We got cool things like this right here. And we got more cool things, shirts, hoodies, you know, as it gets into fall, it's going to get a little chilly, ladies and gentlemen.

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So if you want to represent Wise Disciple, which is the ideal that we all should be living up to, then go to the wisedisciple .store

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and definitely represent. Well, anyway, let me go ahead and jump into the questions here.

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And the first question is just a light one, you know, just simple. I love it.

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The first question is, are you reformed? Well, the short answer is no.

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And I don't think that I've investigated the reformed tradition enough to say that I'm reformed.

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That doesn't mean I disagree with, you know, everything in the reformed tradition. There are some things that I agree with.

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And I think that's all I'm going to say on the subject. So I understand that this is a little vague, but I'm really not looking to jump into the, you know, disagreement between James White and Calvinists and, you know,

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Leighton Flowers and his camp. There are a lot of smart guys on either sides of this issue who make great arguments in this area.

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I'm not trying to be a voice in that space. Let me also say this.

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The older than I get, because I am pretty old, I...

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So the last four and a half, five years or so, I've focused on understanding the

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Jesus of history. It's really trying to get into what Israel was like in the first century.

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You know, what it meant to be an itinerant rabbi as Jesus traveled around. What it meant to be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

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You know, how the Jewish community would have understood that and how the early church really was like, you know.

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And that led me to do a lot of research to develop materials and discipleship and all of that. But the more that I look into this, the more that I realize that the attitude around the time was that, and you can even describe it this way, was that Jews were considered to be men of two hands.

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Okay? On the one hand and on the other hand. And they really wouldn't try to resolve the two apparent issues that cause tension between the two hands.

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And so, what I mean by that is in the Bible, there are a couple of things where it just seems like there is this, there's these two issues.

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You know? And for me, at this point, I really don't have a burning desire to try to resolve tension because I think what it does is it puts me in a position to trust the

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Lord even more. To say, you know what Lord, I understand that everything you say and do is right and good.

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And I'm going to trust you on this to figure this out because I know it makes sense, but I'm not going to try to figure it out.

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And so, specifically in this issue, right, if you read the Bible, and again, I don't think I'm saying anything controversial at this point, but if you read the

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Bible, you're going to notice two categories. On the one hand, God is sovereign. And I would argue that we all should affirm that.

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You know? And take it at face value when the Bible says that because that's what I do. But then on the other hand, humans are free.

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Alright? So then you have areas where it provides this kind of tension. And again,

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I don't seek to resolve that tension. You know? Which is not to say that Christianity doesn't make sense or that we can't provide good apologetics defenses.

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There's tons of areas where we can stand and defend the faith and show that Christianity is the best explanation for the way things are.

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But, in a couple of areas, I'm really not going to try to resolve these areas.

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anyway, thank you for the question. That was probably as clear as mud. So be it. Jim Amberg.

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Oh, by the way, that first question was from someone named Ryan. Thank you for the question, Ryan. Second question is from Jim Amberg. And Jim asked me a couple of questions.

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The first one is, what are the top three arguments for God that you find most compelling? Are these also effective with others?

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So, you can't... The first one, it's just, the first argument is unassailable.

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Alright? And it's the Kalam cosmological argument. It's got to be. Right? And the reason

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I like the Kalam is because it is it is so short and digestible that it's actually memorizable.

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You can actually memorize the Kalam very easily and you can use it. And the thing is, you know, there really isn't a way for skeptics, atheists, whatever to really deal with the

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Kalam in a meaningful sense. You know, and they try. Right? So the second premise, so the

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Kalam is, you know, everything that begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to exist, therefore the universe has a cause.

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Right? And so that second premise is usually the one that gets attacked the most. But I would argue that the science is on the side of the

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Christian on this one in terms of what we see, the evidence for the beginning of the universe.

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And so it really is a strong argument, the Kalam. So I like the Kalam and what's interesting is

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I talked to William Lane Craig and my team and I had a conversation with him and we asked him that same question.

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What is your favorite apologetics argument? Of course, he said the Kalam. Right? So anyway, that's the first one is the

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Kalam. The second one is the moral argument. You know, the moral argument,

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I think, is also very strong and it kind of trades on I guess what I mean, if people are really intellectually honest, if they're if they're genuine seekers of truth, they're going to acknowledge something.

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That is that everybody has a sense of morality in them. It just seems to be that morality is a feature that every single mind on this planet has.

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And even when you have skeptics and atheists, they try to sort of they want to explain this in some subjective sense.

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I would argue that implicitly what they're acknowledging is that we all have this thing. And so it just requires if you're a good thinker, it requires some kind of an explanation.

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And so the moral argument, you know, seeks to ground morality in something that is transcendent that stands over and above every single human being so that therefore we all fall under its responsibility, its requirement.

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And I think that's really strong. So I would say the

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Kalam, the moral argument, finally, I don't know if this is an argument exactly, but the problem of induction, bringing up the problem of induction,

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I think is a really great way to go especially with somebody, again, who's a genuine seeker of truth.

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They're not really, you know, interested in this back -and -forth disputation stuff just to be disputational, but they really are genuinely seeking truth.

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The problem of induction is something to wrestle with. And so the problem of induction was brought up in one of the debate teacher reaction videos.

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I think it was like a debate between Jeff Durbin and James White and a couple of atheists there. It got a little crazy.

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I was eating popcorn if you remember. But they brought it up and it's a good question to ask because the best of the best atheists have also acknowledged that this is just something that must be wrestled with.

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And, you know, so anyway, the problem of induction is that, well, there is this uniformity to nature. We do see that the laws of physics, the laws of logic, they were there yesterday and they're still there today and so therefore they'll likely be there tomorrow.

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Our observations about reality when we make hypotheses and we look around and we do, you know, we do the scientific method, we're relying on induction.

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That is that the things that we observe will still be there tomorrow. The laws of physics, the laws of logic, well, there needs to be an explanation for this and as I said before, you know, no atheist or skeptic has been able to provide a satisfactory explanation because the only one in my opinion is that there is a

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God who orders the universe in a particular way. So, those,

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I would say those three are probably going to be really effective and the ones I like. The next question is what is the single most practical step someone can take today to have better conversations with others about God?

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Let me pause. There's a conversation going on here. Thank you all for the interaction there and I'm still learning how to do live stream and look at conversations and then also talk.

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So, you'll have to bear with me if I do this again. Yeah. So, anyway, let me jump into the other question here.

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You know, to me, I think this question is the $6 million question.

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Alright? And even what I'm really doing here on YouTube is I'm trying to shine a spotlight on this particular issue.

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Okay? Which is how do I take what I know about God and Christianity and communicate it effectively to a world that desperately needs to hear it?

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You know? And for a lot of you, I would imagine that what you're doing is you're consuming a lot of lectures, a lot of talks, a lot of debates, right?

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You heard that really great thing that William Lane Craig said or, you know, Frank Turek said or some other favorite apologist of yours said, but there's still this missing step.

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And I think you all are seeing it, which is, well, if I just, like, cut that out and then drop it on somebody who

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I'm talking to, that's not really effective. It seems to just bounce off their foreheads and they walk away feeling very satisfied with themselves, you know?

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So, it's like, how do I take what I heard, the best stuff from the best guys and translate it into effective conversations?

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Well, we have a whole series on this. I have a signature method of communicating the Christian faith and I hope you guys are checking out those other videos as well as the

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Debate Teacher Reacts videos and we call it First State Evangelism. So, there's a lot to say, but I'll just say that the single most practical step someone can take today is to fulfill the

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Shema. You know what I mean? So, remember when Jesus was, you know, on earth, fulfilling his ministry, he was approached by someone one day who said, you know what, what's the greatest commandment?

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Jesus quotes the Shema. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

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Okay? If we want to be effective, right? Like, if you want to actually speak in a manner that persuades, then you first have to love the people that you're talking to.

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And this is the thing that I think is entirely missing in a lot of conversations. I've said this in the past, like on the community tab and in other places on this channel.

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But if you think that you can, you can be just like the guys in the debate videos and then just bring that into normal conversation with people and that's going to be effective, you are sorely mistaken.

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Okay? And I think you all know that. If you go out and you survey how conversations typically work in today's culture, it's a dumpster fire.

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It really does not work. And so, I think as Christians we have a responsibility.

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Look, I'm going to acknowledge something that we all should be on the same page. The Holy Spirit is the one who does the lion's share of the work.

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We don't save anybody. Alright? The Holy Spirit is the one who does that. However, God in his infinite wisdom has, has enjoined us to come alongside what he's doing here on earth.

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And so, in this little area where we have a responsibility, the Bible says that we need to be a certain kind of person that communicates the gospel, that seeks to make disciples and that's to love the people that we're talking to.

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Alright? That's why it's the greatest commandment. And so, I think out of, if you do that and if you do that well, if you love somebody, all of these qualities are going to flow out of you that will then make your conversations more productive.

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Because if you love the person you're talking to, you'll listen better. You'll, you'll be more patient.

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You'll seek to affirm the person you're talking to. You won't, you won't try to be like sharpshooting them like a lawyer in the courtroom and just attack them at every turn, you know?

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You'll, you'll ask questions to seek to better understand them because you'll care about them. And that's the thing.

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I mean, you know, the Bible has said this, the Bible has written this thousands of years ago.

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And what's funny to me is now the science, you know, in sort of the area of behavioral science is just starting to figure this out just in the last few decades.

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We really are led by our emotions. Everyone is, you know? And so, we really need to be aware of that and respect the fact that there is this just, this component to communication that requires that we, that we deal in the area of emotion because God made us to be emotional beings.

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We are the intersection of intellect and emotion. And so, if we acknowledge that and if we respect that component of emotion, if we love the person that we're talking to, and I don't mean like, you know, well, you know, infatuation or something, right?

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I just mean that if you show them that you care about them, you will find your conversations to be a lot more productive.

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I, I guarantee it. I've seen this in my own life. This is my own experience. As I said, we have a signature method of communicating the

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Christian faith. It's based on the teaching methodology of Jesus. And so, that's, that's my answer.

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Let me jump into the next question because we got a lot of questions. What, in your opinion, is going to be the biggest problem for the

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American church in the coming year? How can regular dudes in the pews fight to head this off?

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Well, number one, somebody needs to start a podcast called Dudes in the Pews. Okay? And, because I think

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I would listen, I would subscribe immediately. But, anyway, that's a really good question.

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There are, there are a lot of problems for the American church. There's, there's a lot of bleeding going on in different areas.

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You know? So we see, for example, like woke theology, progressive Christianity, you know, word of faith heresy.

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Lack of understanding when it comes to biblical discipleship. But, my thought is to perhaps go to the source of a lot of the bleeding.

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You know? Because I think that's probably a better strategy. There is, there is one thing that if developed will counter a lot of the things that I just mentioned.

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Okay? And even more than that. Alright? And that's biblical illiteracy. Underneath a lot of these issues that we're seeing today is the issue of biblical illiteracy.

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That's the biggest problem. One of the biggest that we're facing today. It's the same problem that we've been facing for a while.

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And it explains a lot of what we're seeing now. You know? Churches and Christians who are biblically illiterate.

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And I think that the best way that we can sort of, you know, deal with this is actually, also, it kind of spills over into our evangelistic conversations.

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Which is, we need to get rid of the mindset which is very American. It's very 21st century that if it doesn't happen within the time it takes for me to microwave popcorn then

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I'm not gonna bother. You know? We have a very fast fast food oriented mentality.

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If I can't get it done in 90 seconds then I won't do it. The thing is we need to be a lot more patient. We need to play the long game.

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Okay? And what I would advocate for is that we focus on our families first.

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Focus on the family. That's something, right? So in other words, we as Christian fathers we need to be catechizing our children.

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And catechizing is not strictly a Catholic thing. Okay? It's what we should be doing to train up our children in the way that they should go.

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That's biblical. Our children need to understand the Bible. And they need to understand the basics.

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You know? The basic doctrine. The basic theology which is rooted in the scriptures. Because guess what?

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They will grow up. If we do this right and if we do this well they will grow up one day and they'll become the next leaders.

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They'll become the next pastors of the next churches kind of moving forward and if their knowledge of the

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Bible is robust all of these issues are going to disappear. I guarantee it.

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They really will. Let me go ahead and take a look at some of the comments.

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So GadgetStop321 thanks for watching says I don't think it's possible for anything to threaten Christianity there are however problems for the church.

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Amen. Right? I'm seeing a lot whoops there's noises going on outside my room.

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James Cool Kid Hi Nate. Hi James. Good to see you. Well anyway let's jump back into the questions.

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Let me see we got If you could set up a debate between a Christian and a non -Christian on any topic who would it be?

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And what would the topic be? Dead or alive? If I go dead you know what

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I'd really like to see Irenaeus versus a Gnostic you know or like one of his

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Martian interlocutors I think that would be interesting. I'd love to see the

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Apostle Paul you know I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the Apostle Paul and the Jews would sort of go back and forth you know in Acts chapter 19 he went to the synagogues he actively reasoned and persuaded with the

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Jews there. I'd love to see that. Alive today if I could set up a debate let me also say something else okay and it kind of seems weird for somebody like me but I'm not really like keeping up I'm not fresh with a lot of the recent apologetics debates that have come out in the last

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I'd say ten years and the reason is is because I was focusing on other things you know I was a teacher in the classroom when

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I was teaching debate I mean like debate is for those of you that took debate in high school and college it's really all consuming

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I mean like you know particularly like the tournaments and stuff are every weekend and so when you kind of live and breathe that kind of thing it

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I can't then turn and also spend my you know few minutes I have also looking at debates online so I missed a lot of stuff you know for example when you guys were suggesting that I do

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Matt Dillahunty I'd never seen a Matt Dillahunty debate before I did the first video so I'm coming in a little fresh right so alive today

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I think I'd like to see a rematch between Shelley Kagan and William Lane Craig right because and on the same topic it's gotten necessary for morality like a straight up rematch because I know a number of you pointed out that William Lane Craig later said that well the the people that put together the venue they really didn't want a debate and so they told him to kind of tie one hand behind his back so let's see him without his hands tied behind his back so to speak because Shelley Kagan you know um

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I mean his position I don't agree with is still a smart guy and so I like to see that that's what

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I prefer is somebody who is you know on both sides of the debate

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I'm seeing a match of intelligence you know and even sort of thing and the back and forth

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I really do enjoy so I do the rematch there well let's go to the next question Elijah McGrath thank you

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Elijah for the question says what is an argument for God or Christianity that may not be the most powerful but you find interesting he goes on for example

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I would say the fact that we find so many things beautiful and wondrous is evidence the world is not just randomly caused

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I would agree with you Elijah I would um and I was thinking more and more about what is otherwise known as the argument for beauty when

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I was in Hawaii because I mean come on right like you go out there you're amongst the beauty of the nature that God has created and it's really hard to find anyone that's going to say you know what that's ugly right um and so I would say that there are two sort of arguments that I find very interesting and I'm trying to like familiarize myself with them more because I think for a genuine seeker of truth they will resonate with these things the number one is the argument from desire okay so the argument from desire is that N .C

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.S. Lewis sort of famously um posited this in one of his writings but basically like there is you know every natural innate desire um corresponds to something real in the world every natural innate desire that we have corresponds to something real in the world but there exists in us a desire which does not correspond to something physical in the world and um and therefore cannot satisfy and therefore there must exist more than time matter creatures which can satisfy this desire

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I think that's basically how it goes and uh that would be the argument from desire now

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I don't think that um if you if you're in a conversation with somebody and there is this kind of disputational energy that people are really going to be swayed but I think the argument from desire is one of those things where you go around the corner and you're by yourself and you're really just wrestling with it that's where it becomes a lot more powerful for the genuine seeker of truth the second argument is the argument from beauty as we were talking about right and this argument trades along the same lines as the moral argument

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I think which is you know you show that beauty is objective and then you ground that in something that transcends humanity which is

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God right and it's kind of the same thing with morality right you're not trying to say that morality is something that is created by human minds because then it's locked inside a brain and it becomes subjective across people but instead you try to argue that morality is something discovered outside yourself same thing with beauty now one argument in particular for objective beauty is

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I guess just by simply it kind of trades along the lines of appealing to experience you know which again is what we do with morality right morality seems to be this feature in everyone's mind well so is beauty looking around and so it really does come down to not the fact that somebody would say beauty doesn't exist but that it's a question of what is beautiful and what is what is more beautiful and what is less right what is beautiful and what is ugly and I think

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I think that betrays the fact that beauty is objective and there's a lot more to say about that I think

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I was actually on Cameron Bertuzzi's channel a couple days ago and he actually has somebody who just came and spoke about that so I encourage you guys to go and take a look at Cameron's video there and you know and read up on the subject because this is one of those undeveloped areas of apologetics that again

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I think it would be actually something that is powerful for someone to wrestle with if they're genuinely seeking truth

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I think it's a fascinating subject well let's go on to the next question which is what do you so Mark asks the question what do you think of Molinism bro okay bro what do you think of Molinism well as a as a system

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I think it's pretty tight I think it's a fairly solid explanation of God's providential interaction with humanity and sort of the way that he puts forth his plans since before before the world was formed for those of you that aren't familiar

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Molinism is the view that the way God accomplishes his purposes it trades more on his omniscience if I can say it that way it trades more on his omniscience than his omnipotence so in other words before God created the universe he knew everyone's thoughts and actions because in his middle knowledge

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God knows not only what people will do but also what they would or would not do in any possible circumstance right so that's this is otherwise known as the counterfactuals to human freedom and God decided to create the particular world that he did in keeping with his providential purposes because it also upholds man's freedoms so you know there's a lot more to say there and I'm speaking very quickly but that's

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Molinism in a nutshell like I said I think the system itself is logical the question that I have and everyone should have this question is does it make the best sense of all of scripture because there's no doubt that there again there are two categories that we find in the bible right number one

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God is sovereign and number two man is free and I don't think anyone disputes any of those two biblical categories okay so that's where we can at least find common ground the problem is one of these categories has to take precedence over the other and if you believe that God's sovereignty takes precedence over human freedom then guess what you're in the

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Calvinist camp right and if you believe that God allows for human freedom to be libertarian you know and take precedence over God's sovereignty in key ways well then

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Molinism is a great explanation for how all of that is accomplished by the way a great book to read about Molinism is

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Kenneth Kiefly's book I think it's called Salvation and Sovereignty or something like that you know it's a great depiction of Molinism if you want to better understand it but that's as far as I'm going to go in this kind of conversation because you know again there are a lot of smart great guys who can delineate these differences a lot better than I can and again

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I'm not trying to be a voice in that space let's go to the next question Giovanni giving me a softball okay

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Giovanni if I'm pronouncing that correct says what are your favorite books well I love to read a lot so thanks for the question the glasses are not for show they are real and I am a nerd so I'm constantly reading

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I'm constantly going through some kind of a book and I would encourage all of us as Christians to be good critical thinkers and continue to read right because the screens which is ironic because I'm on a screen right now for all of you guys the screens are like doing something to our brains right and if we spend too much time looking at screens and we're not reading a book or doing something else to sort of you know give our brain the fuel it needs to be sharp and quick then we're going to have a problem so you know

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I read a lot it's kind of hard to say if I have one favorite or two or three actually it just depends on my mood and where I'm at right now but I will say this like I said before in the last about four or five years

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I've really focused on understanding the Jesus of history because I'm convinced that a better understanding of the context in which

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Jesus walked will give us a more vibrant picture of who he is and what he did

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I've said it before but the Bible really to me is like a coloring book okay and so when we get the coloring book the lines are very clear the images that we have are very clearly drawn the problem is the colors are not filled in and the colors are the context and so if you can just know a little bit more about context historical context it really does help to bring the picture out a lot more vibrantly and so there are a couple of books in this area that I think are my favorites and I'll go ahead and give them to you the first one is

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The Forgotten Jesus by Robbie Gallaty really great book and Robbie does a lot of really great research in just showing you what it was like to travel with Jesus you know what it would have felt like you know to be one of his disciples and you know to better understand what

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Jesus was doing some of the difficult sayings that he said that you know Christians kind of scratched their head like what does that mean you know another book along these lines is

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Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus by I think it's Tverberg and Spengler Sitting at the

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Feet of Rabbi Jesus there's a whole series there you know Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus Reading the

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Bible with Rabbi Jesus Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus and basically again it just goes to give you that first century picture of what it was like to walk with Jesus to understand the things that he said better to get that fuller picture out and the last one is

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New Light on the Difficult Words of Jesus by Biven and all of these books are just going to help you so much okay are they necessary to understand the

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Bible? No but will they help you better understand it? Yes and if we are

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Christians which I'm assuming you are that's your goal is to just go deeper in your level of knowledge when it comes to the

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Lord and deeper in your relationship with God as you serve Him you'll serve

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Him better if you know Him more and love Him more so those are my book suggestions let me go to the next question here

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Daniel Payne says I've started down the path of Apologetics and I'll be doing a three day course with CrossExamine .org

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in August Congratulations Daniel that's really great as I look at getting two presentations around I'd like to discuss topics where I can also use my nerdy interests in blacksmithing comic books and fantasy to depict arguments for things like absolute morality and truth as well as answering the problem of evil which

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I think is Christianity's hardest to answer question any thoughts Daniel I think you're on the right track the one thing that I've always tried to communicate to others in the area of teaching so something

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I do behind the scenes is I also teach people how to teach so you know

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God has blessed me with having some insights in this area you know one of the last things that happened before I retired from teaching was

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I was nominated for Heart of Education award for the state of Nevada which is a you know it's a wonderful honor so I try to you know this is the

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Jesus attitude right try to replicate so that we all look more like Jesus you know we take the things where Jesus influences us and then we pass it on right in as much as the content of your message

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Daniel the thing that you want to communicate that should not be altered right so you're not going to change the gospel you're not going to change the apologetics arguments themselves ultimately it does come down to the style of translating that content which is pretty much all up to you because now for me in the classroom

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I would create an air of mystery ok so this is what I'm getting at in the classroom

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I created an air of mystery and there were all these mysteries in my lessons that needed to be solved for my students and I'd invite my students to do the same you know let's go here's our driving question let's go see if we can try to answer that question right

35:33

I'm a huge fan of Sherlock Holmes and so this is one of those things where I'm doing what you're suggesting which

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I was incorporating my own personality into whatever it is that I wanted to communicate to my students and it it had great effect now this isn't like foolproof right because there's you're never going to be able to get 100 % engagement because that you know and seeking that goal is treating people more like robots than real human beings with their own feelings and their own ideas but more often than not

36:05

I found success by doing this particular kind of thing years ago in grad school I read a great book on sort of giving meaningful presentations it's called

36:15

Made to Stick I actually still have it and let me see if I got it right here

36:22

I'm a professional so I can get off camera for a split second this is this is the book

36:29

Made to Stick it's a really great book it's by Chip Heath and Dan Heath alright and these guys know about the compelling nature of creating mystery and you know capturing people's attention they talk about in the book a science teacher who basically figured out that if he introduced mystery at the beginning of his class if he sort of reintroduced it during his lecture and then he circled back around and gave the answer at the end a lot of a sudden his students were engaged

36:58

I mean all of a sudden right and so mysteries are powerful because they create a need for closure right if a door is opened people need the door to be shut again right so you have this powerful experience that you give to the students where they go aha and then even before that you have that like sort of you're trying to get this eureka moment right but before the aha moment you need this kind of huh moment right that's what you need to introduce that's what

37:29

I did in my classroom to great effect and again it traded on my personality so if you can incorporate those elements of what makes you passionate and sort of introducing mystery into your presentations mysteries that must be solved

37:41

I think you're going to nail it I really do Dan so can I call you Dan are we friends so anyway

37:47

Daniel sorry cross examination is a great organization and CIA is the

37:53

CIA course is a wonderful opportunity to hone your skills so great question existential empathy asks this question how about why does nobody talk about exodus when the issue of does the bible support slavery come up why does nobody talk about exodus when the issue of does the bible support slavery come up okay pretty sure

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God did some heavy plaguing on Egypt because they enslaved the Israelites okay that's a fair point

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I wonder though if that is going to be very persuasive because of the other passages in the old testament that appear to support slavery you know from a non -believer's perspective you know they might push back by saying well maybe maybe the exodus was more about the fact that God chose a certain kind of people then the actual notion that slavery itself is wrong they might say that and then and then you're kind of left with well now we got to go back to the general overall issue of what the bible has to say about slavery and it's attitude on it because there are things to say in response here but anyway in terms of a tactic of conversation it's an interesting choice to talk about the exodus because you're right

39:13

I mean God was not happy that the Israelites were slaves but we might want to be prepared because I think there might be some pushback from non -believers that will take us down a different road let's go to Elijah again

39:24

McGrath Elijah I was witnessing to a Mormon and he told me part of his assurance that he was right is that it felt right ok here we go right even being away from his family to do evangelism work he was so happy because he thought

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God was helping him through it I guess the peace and happiness he gets from it he interprets as God's stamp of approval now that's key ok and that's where I would go and so the question is how would you respond to something like that now as I mentioned at the outset

39:57

I have a whole series on our YouTube channel I highly encourage you to check it out it's called our First Aid Evangelism series of videos because I actually in one of them

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I talk about what to do in this particular circumstance with a Mormon but let me start here and I'll say it again the typical paradigm of communication is a dumpster fire it's ineffectual ok because guess what most

40:21

Christians will will do this in this particular circumstance they'll say something like well you know the

40:27

Bible says you shouldn't trust your own feelings right Jeremiah 17 9 says the heart is the most deceitful above all else right but what happens when we do that have you been there has a

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Mormon come to your house you know whether a friend, neighbor, whatever or it's like a missionary and you did that you threw the

40:44

Bible verses at them what happens they fold their arms and they're ready for you right and the

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Bible verses bounce off and so that's what I'm trying to suggest to you guys and I'm going to keep saying it until I'm blue in the face but it's more than simply just giving people pieces of information there's more going on here that you need to do that is on your shoulders as a requirement as a good

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Christian communicator so instead if you kind of pose a question to this person that they cannot answer well then you're going to have a greater chance of getting them to think so and maybe even change their mind right have you ever had that moment where you're in the car and you're driving home it's like a half hour trip and it bugs you because somebody asked you something and you wished you would have said something like or you didn't have in the moment the right thing to say and you just it just aided you the whole entire way home and you're driving you're talking to yourself like a crazy person right that's what you're trying to elicit in your

41:50

Mormon friend or in the person that you're talking to you're going to ask them a question that they cannot answer and with the hopes that the

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Holy Spirit is going to use that to tug on their heart alright so here's what

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I would do I would ask clarification questions about his feelings right so did you let me know if I got this right did you say that part of your assurance that you're right about Mormonism is that it feels right is that what you said okay well then how do you get from it feels right to therefore it is right can you explain this to me okay and then make you make the person that you're talking to make them show you their math essentially right you're just asking them okay you got this particular math answer now show me how you got there because there are all kinds of examples of people doing something that feels right in the moment but is actually wrong and your

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Mormon friend if he's intellectually honest with himself will recognize that point there needs to be some criteria where he can differentiate between his feelings about something and God you know telling him something or the

42:57

Holy Spirit you know what I mean so make him show you his math how did he get there you know is it right because it feels right and if it feels right does that mean therefore it is right that needs an explanation another way of asking the same question is how do you know your feelings are of God and not your own okay which is kind of the

43:23

Jeremiah 17 like that's where that's where the question is going but you're asking in a way for the

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Mormon person that you're talking to to really wrestle with the question how do you know your feelings are of God and not your own what is the criteria to tell the difference and you need to give him space to answer the question okay this is one of those things too where these kinds of questions should be face to face

43:48

I really wouldn't try to do this stuff online because it's very easy for somebody to get this kind of a question and then walk away from the computer or the device and go do a bunch of research and then come back and respond right but to be caught in that moment and have that feeling of I don't know how to answer this question it's powerful it has the power to change lives it really does alright that's what

44:12

I would do next question we're almost done here we're almost done here can you believe it Proverbs 1 7 asks this question do you have any future plans to engage in any public or online debates so I never proclaim with certainty anything about the future

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I'll just go ahead and start with that I've learned my lesson too many times in that particular area and that's

44:37

James right you know do not say tomorrow I will do this or that thing but instead if the

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Lord wills right I don't know what the future holds in this area but right now

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I don't have any plans to do something like that just to be transparent with you all because I really do appreciate you and I really

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I'm really excited to see that there is a community here a wise disciple community if I can call it that that is engaged and they're just they want you guys want to be better you want to be better thinkers you want to know your

45:12

God better and you want to better communicate the Christian world view right well just to be transparent with you part of my hangup is

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I just I don't want folks to get the wrong impression from me debating is not the way to speak to neighbors to family members to co -workers or to anyone about Jesus in in normal circumstances and that's where we all are that's the vast majority of our interaction is in these normal circumstances where God places somebody in your life you shouldn't debate them because if you debate them the walls of defenses are going to come up around the person you're talking to and they're going to shut down on you which is what we are all seeing right now in today's culture and so I you know it's funny because I do have this background in debate our

46:04

First State Evangelism series trades on some of the principles of good debate but I the more

46:13

I do these videos I wonder if what you guys are getting from me is debates are the way to go in normal communication and I hope that that is not the case okay

46:23

I hope that you're consuming the other videos that we're making that's the first thing so if somebody sees me go debate now what are they thinking right it gives me pause the second thing is

46:34

I'm right now currently super busy like just to do this live stream right now it took a lot to rearrange because for me my locally here in Las Vegas my senior pastor my the old senior pastor he went off to go on a new mission assignment and it was very sad and he has left a gap wherein myself and some of the other staff members are stepping in to fill in until there is a new lead pastor that is named and so I'm doing a lot this week again just to be completely transparent with you overwhelmed me

47:14

I had a thought for a split second maybe I can't do this live stream so I can't on top of that right now anyway who knows in the future

47:24

I can't add research to do a good debate you know and the time to sit down that's why

47:30

I'm turning down interviews with some other people that are reaching out because part of it is I'm just way too busy but this is the season that God has me in and again

47:39

I don't know in the future maybe things will change alright and I thank you guys for being patient with me

47:44

I really do appreciate it let's go to the next one Kevin Small hello

47:50

Kevin Kevin Small asked this question what was specifically more egregious about the Tower of Babel than any of the self -centered self -edifying things man has done since that warranted a reaction there but not afterwards that is a that is a interestingly worded question what is specifically more egregious why did

48:13

God act at the Tower of Babel but not in other situations and what makes his action on the

48:20

Tower of Babel what makes that act more egregious than anything else that mankind has done Kevin this to me sounds like a why did

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God do this and not do that kind of question and with these kinds of questions I just have to be honest

48:36

I don't know I don't know because what we're talking about is agency these are questions of agency which a lot of atheists and skeptics have these kinds of questions why didn't

48:47

God make the universe this way why didn't God do this why did God do that I mean those are the only way we're really going to know why

48:55

God chose to intervene in the Tower of Babel and not in other areas of man's wickedness because I see a couple of examples of actions by mankind that appeared from my vantage point to be more egregious than the

49:08

Tower of Babel you know I think this is just one of those things where we're just going to have to ask

49:14

God when we see him one day I'm sorry Kevin that's the best that I got I don't know let's go to the next one what is your opinion of presuppositionalism versus evidentialism well okay bye bye everybody it was nice knowing you this is where everybody gets upset with me

49:34

I will say this I'm of the opinion that we we should be

49:39

Christians with all kinds of methods of communicating in our tool belt we should be like Batman right

49:45

Batman has his tool belt and on his tool belt he's got lots of different tools I think we should be like that and we should be ready to pull out the right tool for the right person at the right time and we should have the discernment to be able to figure that out okay

50:00

I think that there are some great presuppositional style apologetics questions and challenges that we can pose to the non -believers so I mentioned this before but like Jeff Durbin and James White I think they did a really good job in this area are they presuppositionalists

50:18

I think they are you know they debated Ellison Barker on this issue and they showed that off kind of nicely but there are some great evidential arguments that we can use as well to engage others for Christ and defend the faith the problem for me is in trying to say there's only one way to communicate and all the other ways are illegitimate that's where I just can't go there

50:41

I can't say that I don't think anyone can make a biblical case for saying something like that and I'm familiar with the arguments particularly from folks who advocate presuppositionalism you know to me those arguments are tenuous at best so you know and if you want

51:00

I tell you what because I really again I don't want to again now stir up Christians and they get upset but Disciple of Christ if you want

51:08

I can be very much more specific about my critique against presuppositionalism I actually talked about this in our podcast if you have no idea we also do an audio podcast and I talked about my specific critiques of presuppositionalism on a previous episode so anyway reach out to me

51:24

Disciple of Christ and I can get more specific but let's close I got one last question Eric Collins asks this question has an atheist ever given such a great debate that you walked away not just thinking he won but you're wrestling with his points no have a great evening everybody love you see you next time

51:49

I think I think for an atheist to do something like that for me now at my level of knowledge and experience with these kinds of things and I'm not trying to sound like I'm smart

52:02

I'm just saying I'm an old man I'm getting up there in age this this person would really have to introduce something entirely novel that I've not heard before and it will also have to be a powerful punch like right at the heart of the

52:22

Christian's argumentation because atheist arguments are not new they're not new at all they're extremely old and I just haven't seen anything quite like that like I said

52:33

I think Shelly Kagan did a really great job against William Lane Craig but you know again a lot of you pointed out that William Lane Craig kind of tied his hands behind his back so maybe they should do a rematch

52:45

I do remember years ago I was watching who was it

52:51

William Lane Craig and Sean Carroll go at it they debated about the universe and I think maybe it was like the multiverse this was a long time ago and I remember thinking to myself directly after the debate was over that that was a very nice series of volleys back and forth you know so maybe

53:15

I should go back I mean that's again that's one of the apologetics debates that I ever saw in the last probably 10 or 15 years

53:23

I should probably go back and watch that debate actually you let me know do you think that was a good debate I know it's on the list and I'm going to get to that eventually but you let me know what you think and you know who knows maybe one day there will be an atheist and a skeptic who actually does bring something that is really difficult to wrestle with I would like to do that because I think hopefully all of us would agree atheist, skeptic,

53:50

Christian whatever we should be trying to get at what is true even if it it's difficult even if it presents these insurmountable initially obstacles we should all be trying to get at what is true and that should be our primary role in this life is just making sure that we've got reality correct alright well anyway thank you so much everyone for watching this was very long what is this almost an hour and so oh here we go disciple of Christ one last question do you think that there are any fatal flaws in either presuppositionalism or evidentialism

54:35

I've heard some of the precept guys really go hard against evidentialism well let me hmm fatal flaws let me say this when presuppositionalists argue against using evidentialism because they say that evidentialism sort of it almost like does a little bit too much work for the atheist it almost tries to meet the atheist in a middle ground that is a few steps too far

55:04

I think I would agree with that you know so for example this Mike Lacona debate and Matt Dillahunty debate

55:13

Mike Lacona part of the issue with Mike Lacona was that he did not take a more presuppositional approach to Matt Dillahunty because had he done that he would have attacked

55:21

Matt Dillahunty's epistemology instead of like coming into that debate sort of presupposing that there was common agreement in some areas of historiography clearly there was not because Matt Dillahunty is

55:34

Matt Dillahunty and so that's where you see Mike Lacona start to falter and I say that with all respect you know and I don't have

55:43

Lacona's PhD but that's where you get into an issue with evidentialism wherein evidentialism becomes this thing where you have to assume that you have this common ground and that's what

55:55

I'm just not willing to do with an atheist or a skeptic that I'm having a conversation with is just assume that we have that because I guess if both of you start with this kind of common ground then

56:07

I guess you could kind of get into this more inductive style level of argumentation which is it's more about probability and stuff like that but I just don't think that that is wise in a lot of cases my argument against presuppositionalism really is it's not so much the style it's the philosophy that that's the only way that this should be done there is a biblical case that is made by presuppositionalists don't get mad at me guys there is a biblical case that presuppositionalists make that I just don't think is a good one you know

56:44

Romans 121 you know it talks about the nonbelievers mind being futile in their reasoning you know and their hearts have become darkened presuppositionalists who try to further presuppositionalism as a philosophy well they'll assert that this means that nonbelievers can't really know anything because they're trying to use their materialistic atheistic worldview to gain knowledge when the

57:07

Christian worldview is the only one that accounts for knowledge and reasoning and so ultimately what the

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Bible is doing in these particular areas like Romans 121 but also like 2nd Corinthians 4 .4

57:19

right the God of this world is blinded the minds of the unbeliever right even

57:26

Psalm no what is it I think it's Proverbs chapter 1 you know the fear of the

57:32

Lord is the beginning of wisdom what the presuppositionalist camp will try to do is they're going to say well this is more it's about how human epistemology works and I just I don't see that I don't see those texts being a case on how human epistemology works and so because I don't see that then

57:58

I don't see a limitation on just utilizing presuppositional apologetics and not anything else like I said

58:05

I think that we see different styles of communication whether you're looking at Peter in Acts chapter 2 whether you're looking at Philip later with the

58:12

Ethiopian eunuch whether you're looking at Paul in Acts chapter 17 whether you're looking at Jesus in certain cases in the gospels they tend to vary in style and so I think if they vary then

58:25

I think we're allowed to vary we're allowed to be as my friend J. Warner Wallace says mixed martial artists or mixed martial apologists or something like that I ruined that joke but anyway well thank you so much we hit an hour and as science tells me nobody watches anything longer than an hour on YouTube because of attention span so look if you want to do another

58:49

Q &A definitely let me know I can do those kinds of things just let me know in the comments below if you had more questions and I didn't get to them

58:55

I don't want to leave you guys hanging so go back to the community tab and throw your question down under there and maybe we can do this again real soon but listen guys

59:04

I'm so grateful for 2 ,000 subs I'm so grateful because all of those numbers represent a real person that is interacting we are interacting it's you see you see where we are so anyway