Megachurch Pastor Andy Stanley Comes Out...

Listen very carefully to what Andy Stanley, pastor of North Point Community Church, one of the largest megachurches in the United States, says in this shocking clip.

If we could figure out how to get straight people as excited about serving and engaging as the gay men and women I know, we would have a volunteer backlog. That's my experience in our churches. Well, a gay person, I'll just read it to you.

A gay person, when I say gay men and women, okay, a gay person who still wants to attend church after the way the church has treated the gay community, I'm telling you, they have more faith than I do.

They have more faith than a lot of you. A gay person who knows, you know what? I might not be accepted here, but I'm gonna try it anyway. Have you ever done that as a straight person? Where do you go that you're not sure you're gonna be accepted and you go over and over and over and over?

Only your in-laws house. That's the only place you go where you know you're not completely accepted, but you go over and over and over, and it's because you have to. But other than the in-laws, what environment do you continue to step foot in knowing at any moment you may feel ostracized?

No place. I'm telling you, the gay men and women who grew up in church and the gay men and women who've come to faith in Christ as adults who want to participate in our church, oh my goodness. I know 1 Corinthians 6, and I know Leviticus, and I know Romans 1.

It's so interesting to talk about all that stuff, but just, oh my goodness, a gay man or woman who wants to worship their heavenly Father who did not answer the cry of their heart when they were 12 and 13 and 14 and 15.

God said no, and they still love God. We have some things to learn from a group of men and women who love Jesus that much and who want to worship with us. And I know the verses, I know the clobber passages, right?

We got to figure this out, and you know what?

I think you are. There are so many problems with what Stanley said in this short clip. Let's talk about three of them. The first problem is that Stanley refers to gay men and women.

When I say gay men and women, okay, a gay person who still wants to attend church.

Which seems to suggest that there are people whose very identity is gay who are born immutably and unchangeably homosexual. There are at least two things wrong with this. Number one is that there is simply no evidence that anyone is born immutably and unchangeably homosexual in the same way that people are born black or white.

They say homosexuality is as immutable as ethnicity. Have they proved that? No, they haven't proved that. Nobody's ever proven that. The twin study, the brain study, the pheromone study, the X chromosome study.

Nobody's proved that. In fact, you can't prove that a person is a homosexual. All you can prove is that somebody engages in homosexual activity. You can't prove that they are a homosexual. Is there a test for it?

Of course there's not a test for it. Why? Because we haven't proved it. If we had proved it, then when people died, you could out them after their death. You could take a blood test and you could say, see, he was homosexual.

We knew it all the time. There it is right there in his blood. There it is right there in his DNA. There it is right there in his brain. There it is right there. But there's not a test for it because it hasn't been proven.

So they're begging the question. When the California Supreme Court says it's as immutable as race, it hasn't been proven. And yet they're making decisions based on question-begging logic. Guess what I know?

First Corinthians 6, 9 to 11. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexual immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you. You were washed. You were sanctified. You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ by the Spirit of God. 2 ,000-year-old evidence that people stopped being homosexuals.

Huh? If it's as immutable as ethnicity, how did people stop? Well, they may have stopped doing it, but they didn't stop being it. Prove it. Do the blood test. Well, we don't have one. Well, then how can you make such a statement?

You're begging the question.

You haven't proved it. Number two is calling people gay men and women, rather than men and women who struggle with same-sex attraction.

Can someone self-identify as gay and be a Christian?

Someone can identify as someone who is struggling with same-sex attraction.

You will struggle. And some people will call those, will identify that as gay Christians. You don't have a problem with that. I have a big problem with that. You do have a big problem with that.

And I'll tell you why. Well, I'm an English professor, of course. I guess we can't diagram a sentence back here. Gay is an adjective. Christian is a noun. And the job of an adjectival modifier is actually to change the noun.

It modifies. So you say you're a gay Christian. You know what you're doing? You're putting on the wrong team jersey. It's a paradox. It can't work. You're going out on the field. And you're playing. And you're confusing everybody.

You may be a Christian who struggles with same-sex attraction. You may be a Christian who struggles with any manner of sin. But as soon as you embrace an adjectival modifier and claim that as your identity, you are not identifying fully with Christ.

And here is what you are saying. You say you're a gay Christian. You're saying, Holy Spirit, don't touch me there. That's off limits.

That's my identity. In the same way that we wouldn't define people because of their alcoholism or adultery, we shouldn't define people because of their attraction to the same sex. The second problem is how Stanley treats scripture regarding this issue.

Listen to how dismissive Stanley is of the passages that directly deal with the subject of homosexuality.

I know 1 Corinthians 6, and I know Leviticus, and I know Romans 1. It's so interesting to talk about all that stuff. And I know the verses. I know the clobber passages, right?

Again, there are at least two problems here. Number one is his labeling of these passages as clobber passages, which is the term used by those who argue against the idea that homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible.

However, these passages are in fact very clear concerning homosexuality being a sin, no matter how hard people try to explain them away.

The clobber passages, by the way, the clobber passages are those passages, those six passages that people use. So in the homosexual community, those are referred to as the clobber passages. Those six verses that Matthew Vines deals with in his book.

Here's the second. The public and consistent nature of these attacks means they work. It means they work, and they do. I've actually seen it happen. I've watched Christians backed into corners on college campuses and other places with this same line of argumentation.

Really? Really? Do you eat shrimp? Do you eat pork? Really? Do you do this? Do you do that? Why do you pick and choose? Thirdly, these attacks bring the fight to our front door by making a scriptural argument.

This is hugely important, folks. Choosing. I, on the other hand, do know why I pick and choose. You see, there's this thing called hermeneutics, and we use hermeneutics to interpret the Bible. And we use hermeneutics to do things like picking and choosing in the Old Testament law.

I pick and choose because I understand that there are three different types of law. There's moral law, there's civil law, and there's ceremonial law. You see, I understand that the moral law, which is really based on the Decalogue, is that law that transcends time and culture.

And that those are things that are true for all people in all places at all times. However, there is a civil law that God gave to Israel in the ancient Near East for them to function as a culture then and there.

Those things cannot just be taken over from that culture to our own. Thirdly, there are ceremonial laws which taught Israel about its worship. Those things cannot just be brought over whole hog either.

For example, the laws in Leviticus that relate to the temple, we couldn't do those things if we wanted to. But here's where it gets very interesting. Because I'm a Christian, I understand that Christ fulfilled those things in the ceremonial law.

That he was our once for all sacrifice for sin. So that as a Christian, it would actually be an abomination for me to go and offer the sacrifice of a lamb or a bull or a goat when Christ died for sin once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that he might bring us back to God.

So as a Christian, I am obligated to pick and choose because Christ fulfilled the law. Please notice I've now gotten to the gospel in a Bible discussion that they initiated.

And number two is Stanley's implication that scripture only deals with the subject of homosexuality in these quote unquote clobber passages. However, the truth is that every single time scripture deals with the subject of marriage and sexuality, it is indirectly addressing the issue of homosexuality also.

Number one, Jesus did address homosexuality. He addressed it in Matthew chapter 5 and in Matthew chapter 19. Because in Matthew chapter 5 and Matthew chapter 19, he addressed the issue of marriage. He rooted his understanding of marriage in the teaching in Genesis chapter 2.

The teaching in Genesis chapter 2 that gave us marriage between a man and a woman for the purposes of procreation, illustration, and sanctification. He also made it very clear that what man is joined together, what God has joined together, man cannot separate.

In other words, God is the author of marriage, not man. Therefore, God is the one who defines marriage, not man. Therefore, man does not have the right to introduce the concept of same-sex marriage. Number one, because by definition, it's not marriage.

It's another thing. And number two, because by definition, it goes against what was created in Genesis chapter 2. So Jesus did address homosexuality.

And the third problem is just how convoluted and confusing Stanley is being here. In one way, Stanley suggests that homosexuality is indeed a sin to be avoided.

My goodness, a gay man or woman who wants to worship their heavenly father, who did not answer the cry of their heart when they were 12 and 13 and 14 and 15. God said no, and they still love God.

Stanley talks about people who struggle with same-sex attraction, not answering the cry of their hearts and God saying no, which is correct. However, in another way, Stanley seems to go out of his way to praise and exalt people who identify as gay.

A gay person who still wants to attend church after the way the church has treated the gay community. I'm telling you, they have more faith than I do.

They have more faith than a lot of you. Stanley's teaching here is simply an absolute mess. It's pretty easy to teach, one, that homosexuality is clearly a sin according to Scripture.

One of the supreme tragedies in our day is reclassification of homosexuality as a non-sin, as a normal behavior, as an acceptable behavior, even as a noble behavior because that's the way you're made, instead of defining it the way the Bible defines it as a perversion from which you need to be rescued.

Wrong diagnosis obviates the cure. And the evangelical church must stick with a biblical definition of sin and confront the sinner with every sin, whether conventionally popular or not.

And two, that the church should provide love and support for people who struggle with the sin of same-sex attraction in the same way that the church would provide love and support for people who struggle with alcoholism or anger.

Of course, Stanley's doublespeak is common among megachurch pastors who are more concerned with presenting a Christianity that is acceptable to the church than with communicating the gospel as it is clearly presented in Scripture.

We see this same kind of confusing teaching concerning homosexuality from teachers.

Such as Joel Osteen. So are gay people also included? Absolutely. Anybody. Will a gay person be accepted into heaven as you see it? Well, I believe they will.

In T .D. Jakes. And trust me, I've talked to enough LGBT, they are not all the same. Oh, for sure.

But how do we, first of all, is your thinking involved in this?

Evolved and evolving. Evolved and evolving.

And we don't hear any teaching at all concerning this topic from teachers such as Stephen Furtick. Instead of bowing down to the pressures of the culture and trying to say things that the world would find acceptable, as Christians, we need to recognize that true love doesn't hide or obscure the truth, but rather speaks the truth that people need to hear no matter how offensive it is to the culture.

Because even if the culture is offended, there will be some whose eyes will be opened by God to see the truth of their sin and of the gospel and be saved by the precious blood of Jesus Christ.

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