Kirk Cameron On Fighting For The Faith

When the scribes and Pharisees asked our Lord about the greatest commandment, He replied, You shall love the

Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

So, why do we hear some of today's most prominent pastors saying things like this? It had everything to do with how we talk about the

Bible. And specifically, or along with that, what we point to as the foundation of faith, which for most

Christians, unfortunately, is the Bible. We need to do better.

We need to love God with all our hearts, and stand unashamedly on the rock of His Word. We need to love the

Lord with all of our souls, and respond to the worldview issues of our day with the wisdom and discernment that comes only from Him.

We need to love the Lord with our minds, and understand the calling of God's people in every area of life in God's world.

We need to love the Lord our God with all our strength, and face the work of building a life -giving,

God -honouring culture. Join us for 10 days at the Runner Academy for Cultural Leadership, as we consider how the

Gospel influences all of life and culture, and the role that we have to play in applying foundational

Christian thinking to every area of life. This is

The Academy. I am Eli Ayala of Revealed Apologetics, and I will be bringing a six -part series on Presuppositional Apologetics.

What is this called? The Apology Academy? It's just called The Academy. Okay. What's up, everybody?

My name is Pastor Jeff Durbin, and you're watching Collision Today. I'm gonna be interacting with an atheist on TikTok.

So here we go. Unsupervised and unhinged. Welcome back to Cultus the

Aftermath. Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to another episode of Ask Me Anything. You are watching Apologia Radio's after show exclusively for all access.

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

We're being delusional. Delusional? Yeah. Delusional's okay in your worldview. I'm an animal.

You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

It doesn't really hurt. Is he hung up on me? What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Right. Don't go into the world and make homies.

Right. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle, Nick. That's a joke, pasta.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

It's gonna get weird today, guys. It's gonna get weird. Treat for you today. Well, I'm an 80s kid.

As long as we got each other. I remember being a little boy, my pajamas.

You know the pajamas with the zip all the way up and you got little footies? Like wearing that, my little blue footies thing, just sitting there watching

Kirk Cameron. I'm so lost. You don't even belong on this show today. You were born in 81.

I'm an 80s kid. You were born in what? 89. You're not an 80s kid.

No. Technically, you existed in the 80s. Technically. But you have no 80s culture in you.

You're out of your element right now. That's right. You're out of your element right now. It's gonna get weird today.

Everybody, just so you know, it's gonna get weird. Because I grew up as a kid watching Kirk Cameron, Growing Pains. Love that show.

Watching all his movies. I even reminded him of a movie that he did. Where he played a doctor.

Because I know all these things. He tried to forget it. And I want to show everybody right now too, as we open the show up. I want to show you something that I wouldn't have announced publicly.

Ever. Is that the poster you had? But since he's on the show today, we're gonna have Kirk Cameron on the show today.

What? That's right. Since he's on the show, I'll go ahead and admit this. My sister knows this.

My mother and father knew this. But in the 80s, I was such a Kirk Cameron fan. That when my sister would have the

Teen Bop magazines. Is that what it was called? Teen Bop. You're not really an 80s kid.

I'm the oldest. I didn't have a sister. Teen Bop. That's true. You were a man. But I had a sister. I had a sister who had

Teen Bop magazines. And so, you know, like all the new kids on the block. And all that stuff.

Like, you know, Kirk Cameron. All those guys. You just put him in the same category as new kids on the block. I did, but it's just because it's like an 80s thing.

You know what I'm saying? It's all the rage now with Stranger Things. 80s culture. He's an 80s icon.

So anyway, I'll go ahead and pull it up on the screen there, Gabe. This is the poster that I actually had on my wall.

As a child. You just have no shame today, huh? I don't know why it was this poster.

It could have been a better one of Kirk Cameron. You know, as a young boy. But it was just, you know, it's almost like the

Kirk Cameron starring in Grease. Kirk Cameron, Grease. 1988 version. That's exactly what it looks like right there.

Oh my goodness. That's the one you had in your room? That was on my wall.

Love always. Today's gonna get weird. Now, that wasn't written from Kirk to me. I found that on Etsy.

Anyway, so we usually start the show off not fanboying and getting weird like this. But anyway, we usually start with a

Bible verse. Very important Bible verse. Isaiah 59, 14.

Justice is turned back and righteousness stands far away for truth has stumbled in the public squares and uprightness cannot enter.

Man, is there a better verse to describe where we're at today? Sounds up the culture nicely. That's beautiful.

It's almost like God's word, you know, is the truth. Something you can always stand on. So hey, this is

Apologia Radio, Gospel heard around the world. You can get more at ApologiaStudios .com A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A

Go to ApologiaStudios .com Sign up for all access. When you do, you get right now some new courses with the academy.

You get Collision, where we engage with popular, cultural, talking heads, worldview stuff, bringing the

Christian worldview and the gospel into Collision in the public square against all the ideas that try to take down the knowledge of Christ.

So we also have the Apologia After Show right after this show. We're going over to Apologia Studios to continue talking for the

After Show, just for our all -access partners in ministry. I want to say thank you to all of you guys who are part of this ministry with us because you make everything we do possible, whether it's the evangelism videos or outreach, the teaching.

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And that's Luke the Bear. What up? I'm Jeff the Calm of the Ninja. That's Zach Conover right there. Hey, everyone. Director of Communications for End Abortion Now.

And let's get right to it. So, again, he needs no introduction.

I mean, you know, it's Kirk Cameron. It's Kirk Cameron. 1980s. He was, you know, like, he was the biggest, biggest, biggest.

He was Kirk Cameron. And then, of course, you know, everyone knows the stuff that he did with our good friends over with Living Waters.

Ray Comfort, a very good friend of mine. And all that stuff. Early, was that like, sort of like early 2000s he was doing that with Ray?

So everyone knows about the evangelism videos. All that he was doing with Living Waters. Really grateful for that. And of course everybody knows

Kirk Cameron in the Christian world because of the Left Behind series. That's what I was gonna say is like, that's the first time

I saw. See, that makes sense to me. You're 89, you're born in 89. You were probably listening to Carmen and watching

Left Behind. Right? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I mean, for the most part. Yeah. I'd say that probably identifies

Isaac a lot. He was like, Carmen and Left Behind. Yep. So that's Isaac's probably in the background now, freaking out.

He's like, what? The Left Behind guy? He's like, my favorite actor, my favorite eschatology. Right there. All right.

So let's bring him on. No further ado. Kirk Cameron, welcome to Apologia Radio, brother. It's really good to be with you guys.

And just listening to you banter back and forth about the 1980s. Come on, isn't this more fun than fighting the communists?

Yes. Absolutely. Oh, totally. I love that this is Kirk Cameron saying these things. Actually, you know, if we spent more time fighting the communists back in the 1980s, maybe we wouldn't be in this cultural position we find ourselves in now.

Preach. Preach. Exactly right. See, doesn't everyone love the fact that you are talking to Kirk Cameron right now, talking about fighting communism?

A man who's preaching the gospel, and he's now engaging in fights in the public square. So, Kirk, what's going on with you?

I know you wrote a book. It's a children's book, and it talks about the fruit of the spirit, and you're talking about Scripture, and you've been in some significant fights over the last couple months.

So what's up with you, brother? Well, you know, I have been touring the country since about Christmastime, when

I wrote this children's book, which was about biblical wisdom and the fruit of the spirit. I wanted to teach this to kids because so many story hours in public libraries have been hijacked and occupied by drag queens who are sexualizing, grooming little kids with these horrific ideas.

And parents came out of the woodwork to come to these libraries and have their kids learn about biblical wisdom and the fruit of the spirit.

When I got some pushback, I actually wrote letters to libraries who were telling me that they didn't want my message, that their values didn't align, that these are queer -friendly communities, and they're looking for authors of color.

I sent them a letter and reminded them it's the United States of America, and that that's viewpoint discrimination. If they continue that kind of thing,

I would be prepared to assert my constitutional rights in court. Well, they reversed course. They caved.

We went to the library in Indianapolis as the first one, and we had 2 ,500 parents and children show up, overwhelmed that library on six floors, down the escalator and out the front door and down the street.

Not because they're interested in Mike Seaver or reading a book, but because they are looking for a platform and a voice to express their deep desire and passion to exit the woke matrix.

There are millions of people who have already been red -pilled since, oh, I don't know, the pandemic.

That's one of the best things that came out of it, is people start to realize that there's some deeper magic going on here that is very sinister, and this is all about the disorganization and the deconstruction of our present societal structure for the purpose of replacing it with something entirely different.

Now I've written a book called Pride Comes Before the Fall. It's releasing today, June 1st, and it's all about humility.

And I was in Seattle Public Library this last weekend and was met by hundreds of parents and kids there as well as a few protesters.

One of them, there's a great picture if you haven't seen this on the internet, but there's a protester who made a big beautiful sign that said,

Kirk, you're growing into a real pain. Kudos.

Nicely played, sir. Yes. A for effort on the arts and crafts, but in truth,

I think they've got the messaging wrong. I want to send them a free copy of the book because it's not an anti -LGBTQ book.

It is a pro -humility book, and at the end of the day, I'm not trying to turn everybody straight.

I'm trying to turn hearts and minds of children toward the

God who made them and loves them and offers them a path toward blessing, and it starts with humility.

That's the beginning of the gospel, repentance. Recognizing your broken condition, your need for Christ. Exactly. So, Kirk, it's interesting because you're holding these events at public libraries talking about Scripture, talking about Christ, talking about God's Word, and it sounds like your events are attended by more people than attend the drag queen story hours, and so it looks like you are able to do something that I think is so important to do, and that's a revelation to our culture that actually what's underneath it, outside of the media and all the promotion of all of this insanity, what's underneath it is actually a culture, a community of people, many of them who trust in Christ and stand in the

Bible, who don't want this stuff to overwhelm our nation any longer and want to resist it, but they're waiting for people who will be courageous and champions to stand up in the public square with the truth.

The text I read at the beginning of the show today, "...justice is turned back and righteousness stands far away for truth has stumbled in the public squares and uprightness cannot enter."

And I think what we've seen over the last generation is the dominant force and testimony in the public square is that of those who reject

Christ, reject God's Word, reject Biblical revelation, reject Biblical morality. They're the ones talking and owning the, or having the most speech in the public square, and so you have done something over the last couple of months,

I think has done what many things have done over even the last couple of months, and that is reveal what's really underneath all of this, outside of what the media promotes, and that is that there is a large, large group of people who resist these things, they don't want these things.

Even from the Dylan Mulvaney -Bud Light situation, with heavy, heavy losses that Bud Light has sustained by putting

Dylan Mulvaney on his own can. Target now experiencing the losses because people are saying, look,

I'll show you what you're losing by losing me. If you want to promote this stuff, then

I'm not going to shop. I'll boycott for a month or whatever. You'll see how it's going to hit you. I just love how you describe that.

You've got people pouring out of this place, and Kirk, they're not even listening to you. They can't even hear you downstairs. They're just taking a stand in the public square.

Yes, and they're doing even more than that. I was deeply inspired by their courage when 2 ,000 people who never got into the children's reading room, rather than getting upset, they actually broke out the books and started their own story hours in the aisles between bookshelves, and they started their own praise and worship sessions in the lobby and down the escalator in the public library, where, by the way, no one goes anymore, according to the police, because of all the riots and the destabilization of their city due to all of these woke and broke policies.

Suddenly, it's filled with families, and they're singing praises to God. That tells me that as is obvious in Hollywood, where I live, perception is not reality.

I live in the land of make -believe. We fool people with our movies for a living.

The perception is that everybody's gone woke. The majority of the people are not interested in God, and they're not interested in preserving the principles of America because America's bad and family's unnecessary.

We have government programs to take care of kids. That's not true. Everywhere that I go,

I'm finding that there is a growing rumbling of revival in the hearts and minds of moms and dads who recognize what we're losing.

Grandparents are the best because they recognize the change more than anyone.

They've been around longer, so they've seen the cultural decline, and their conscience tells them it happened on their watch.

I feel that as a father of six children, I'm going, look, if you came to my house 20 years ago, and it was in great shape, and you came here today, and my sewer's backed up, and termites are infesting the place, and there's rat droppings on my kitchen counter, you would be like, dude, don't blame your neighbors or any outside forces like termites and rats.

You neglected your duty. You have a sacred duty to raise your family. This happened on your watch.

Get your act together, and I think that's what Christians are starting to do. You bring up an excellent point.

One thing I have said is I want to love our elder believers who dominated the last generation.

We're behind them now. I want to love them and show them respect, but at the same time, you have to acknowledge a lot of this happened on your watch.

You let a lot of this stuff go. You let a lot of this stuff go, and now we are eating the fruit of it.

What you see today, I think this rising tide of believers who are saying, no, we need to bring the

Word of God into conflict with these things. We need to bring the proclamation of the Gospel into these things, is you're seeing people recognize that, look, our defeatist attitude of the last generation has only led to chaos and more darkness.

And so when the church isn't salt, and when the church isn't light, we fail in our duty. And so I am just,

I am grateful for many people like you, Kirk, that are actually people that hold a level of respect in our society, and standing up and saying, no, this is wrong.

And I love, Kirk, what you're doing is that you're not approaching this, and this is why I am grateful for you, you're not approaching this when you approach these issues with a

Christ -less conservatism. You're approaching it as a follower of Christ, and you're approaching it in these children's books with what?

With the Word of God. Here's what God's Word says to you, children. Here are the blessings of God in your life.

You're doing this, pointing them to God, to Christ, to God's Word, and that's what I'm so grateful for, because one of the things that I fear,

Kirk, I fear that people will say, look, we all know Communism is bad. And the question is, well, how do you know

Communism is bad? Who says Communism is bad? What worldview provides a foundation to say Communism is bad?

And the conservatism that basically says, well, let's fight all of these evils devoid of an explicit commitment to God's Word and to Christ, I feel like that's a completely failed approach.

There's no hope for transformation and new eyes and a new heart. And so I'm grateful, Kirk, that you are doing it standing as a follower of Christ.

How do I follow that up? Other than to say, amen and amen, and I want to just hit rewind, and I want people who are listening to this to hit rewind and listen again to what you just said.

I think that's exactly right. May I add this? Christless conservatism cannot solve the problem.

I love listening to Jordan Peterson. I like listening to Ben Shapiro. I like listening to Dennis Prager.

I think many people have got really good ideas, but conservatism alone leaves us as men with good advice stuck in Adam's prison, unable to do anything with the advice.

It reminds me of Paul and Silas trapped in jail. They had the Gospel, the potential to transform the world, but they need an earthquake sent by God.

And I think here in America, we need a spiritual earthquake that throws open the prison doors of sin, and we need to rush out as Christians armed with the only weapon powerful enough to subdue the earth and its institutions, the word of God, and we need to advance the good, not tuck our head between our knees, cry in our

Chick -fil -A soup, and wait for a rapture. Wait, you just heard Kirk Cameron.

Go ahead. I'm on a roll here. You're on a roll. Let him go. Listen, and we need to advance the good.

We need to take the truth that we know and redeem a dying culture through a revival.

Yeah. Which can only come with a proclamation of the Gospel. No Gospel, no revival.

And I agree with you too, Kirk. I love Jordan Peterson. I'm actually just astonished at some of the things that he said, like when he was on his show, or Joe Rogan's podcast, and he talked about the

Bible as more true than true, and that's the very foundation to make truth possible.

I thought, is he reading Van Til and Greg Bonson? I mean, goodness gracious.

So I appreciate so much of what they say, but exactly, and I like how you put that in terms of, we're imprisoned.

That's fantastic, and the answer is going to be an explicit proclamation of God's truth, which is why

I appreciate what you're doing, because you didn't go into the public square, and I think this is where people will fail, is they'll go into the public square arguing at public school meetings or to the school board or whatever, and just saying, like, we disagree with these things.

We don't think this is moral. We disagree. That's not what's going to ultimately open people's eyes.

It's going to be, this is a sin, this is unrighteous, and there is hope in Jesus Christ, but we need to turn to God and submit ourselves to Christ, and we need to be healed.

Our land needs to be healed, and it's only going to come through Jesus Christ, not a Christless conservatism. Were you going to say something?

No, I mean, if he wants to answer that or figure out something. Go ahead. Hey, I don't want to hog the mic.

Go ahead, bro. You've got good things to say. No, I mean, I was thinking about what I wanted to ask you, because it's really encouraging to hear that the voice of the minority is larger than we think.

Larger than what we've been led to believe, and I'm sure there's been, you know, prices that you've had to pay and taken a stand for this, and so, you know, just knowing how we can be praying for your family, what that's been like, but also, you know, everywhere we look right now, it seems that all of our conservative figureheads or leaders or role models, if you will, or politicians or athletes or people in the cultural, you know, sphere, or you know, even for us, we do a lot of work in the pro -life sector.

There just seems to be a lot of compromise on all fronts. You know, people backing down, people apologizing, taking a hard stance and then saying, you know what, never mind,

I offended you, so therefore I have to come out and apologize. And I just want to know, I mean, the answer's probably in the question, but as a conservative,

Bible -believing Christian, a patriot, someone that loves God's word, someone that loves this nation, how have you not been able to compromise?

Hmm. That's a good question. Wow, there's so many things here I want to jump in on.

How have I not, how have I been able to not compromise? Well, I know who

I'm talking to, and those who are listening have been fed such a steady diet of red meat.

You guys are on the theological carnivore diet. And so I know that obviously it is the grace and kindness and preserving grace of God that keeps me from diving off the cliff into the ocean of sin.

But I also know that I've got the best deal in the world.

I've got the forgiveness of my sins. I have eternal life. I have a

Father who loves me and has sealed me into His covenant. He's loved me from before the foundation of the world, and He's got a purpose to advance

His Kingdom in some way through me. I don't want to do anything to offend my

Father. And I've got six children who look to me. I don't want to disappoint them.

I don't want to hurt my wife. And there are millions of people out there who have been heartbroken and discouraged and disillusioned by important Christian leaders face planting in the worst possible way.

I think of Ravi Zacharias who was a friend of mine and I still can't believe when

I look at his texts on my phone, how kind, how tender -hearted, how theologically astute, how helpful he was to me.

And then to see this, it shocked me. I should say this, it surprised me.

No, it shocked me, but based on what I read in the Bible, it shouldn't surprise me because sin runs so deep and I don't know

Ravi's heart, but if all of this is true and it appears to be, man,

I want to have my stuff together with God. And that's why the fear of the

Lord is always my priority. Because I don't want to slip and fall into hypocrisy, idolatry, and gross sin and disqualify myself.

It's so amazing that you went to that. That right there, the fear of the Lord, that's the main thing, the foundation of the fear of the

Lord. Totally. That's the thing that gets people apologizing on national television for offending particular communities.

That's the thing that stops legislators from doing what they know to be right. I can't tell you how many people

I've sat in front of in the last couple of years, legislators in countries who tell me with tears in their eyes, I know this is the right thing to do.

I believe it. I know that it has to be done. But they'll say something like, but not now. Not now.

It's not time. Not yet. And the answer is, no, don't delay justice. God commands against that. And you have to be courageous, and I think that's the core issue,

Kirk, is just that point, is there's no fear of God. If you fear God, you will fight against compromise.

If you fear God, you'll die burning on a stake, because you fear God more than you fear men.

And so I was going to say that when I was a child in my blue sleeper with my footies, I thought that I really liked you, and I had a poster, but Kirk, I need a new poster.

This time maybe you like this, and we'll put that one up. But I had one last question, then

I'll kick over to Luke. My question was, Kirk, you mentioned something that probably a lot of people were scratching their heads, like, wait, what?

So you're fighting, and you're fighting in the public square. You're fighting with the Word of God. You're fighting with the truth. You're trying to stay with fidelity to Christ and faithful to Him, not compromising.

And you mentioned this idea of just waiting for a rapture to get out of here. Where are you standing now, in terms of like, okay, you're fighting.

You're a follower of Christ, but you're fighting, which we should be doing. So what are you standing on as a

Christian in terms of the Word of God? What shaped your heart and your mind to make you think like that?

Why are you doing what you're doing? Well, I let's see, so I come from some theological backgrounds and travel to many, many churches where I speak and whether it's on an airplane or I'm hanging out, you know, having lunch with somebody, people talk about the culture in very hopeless terms.

I was even talking to a very prominent Christian leader that everyone in the world knows who said, there's no hope for America.

We're past the point where things could get better. I have some of my own theological mentors who

I've heard them say, we lose. We, as Christians, lose down here.

And that we are beyond recovery as a culture. And I get that it's exciting for people to think that they could see the heavens open and Christ return in their lifetime.

But history and I believe the Bible just obliterate that whole pessimistic, fatalistic mindset.

If you go back in history and you look during the times of the ancient Roman Empire, or you look at the

Babylonians and the Egyptians and what they did to the people of God, people were being fed to lions.

They were being impaled on a stake, roasted, and used as human torches to illuminate gladiatorial games.

It's not that bad in America yet. But it can get there. And here's what I find interesting. God never said fear them.

He said fear me and I will bury your enemies. But if you forget me,

I will bring your enemies to discipline you. And I can't help but wonder if we are in a place here in America where we have so forgotten and neglected the source of our blessings and our protection and gone after other gods like comfort, money, pleasure, instant gratification.

We've set ourselves up as gods, creating gender in our own image, among other things, that God has said, okay,

I'm taking my hands off and why don't you have what you want until you choke on it? And we're choking.

We're on life support now. And what gives me hope and where I stand is that there have been great awakenings during times of moral decline, spiritual apathy, and economic collapse in the past.

In fact, that's always when it happens historically. We've had a couple of them here in America, and if we had them then, why not now?

That's right. But it always came with a problem. Kirk, we'll see you at ReformCon 2024.

It reminds me of what God says in Isaiah. We'll get it there. You've got time. It reminds me of what

God says in Isaiah where he's like, who are you that you should be afraid of a man who will die? Who's this uncircumcised philistine?

He's rebuking them for their pride of being afraid of men instead of him. That's just what I hear.

Can I share with you a story that Dinesh D'Souza shared with me? Yeah. I was at this event that a friend of mine put together called

Hope Rising. No, no, no. It was called Non -Essential. This was when here in the communist state of California, our governor,

Gavin Mussolini, put us all under house arrest and we couldn't go to church or businesses or stores.

You could go to a weed shop. You could go to an abortion clinic or a strip club, but you couldn't go to church.

We had an event called Non -Essential referring to the church being deemed non -essential by our governor.

Dinesh, while he doesn't talk about his faith that often, I asked him to pray for thousands of people there at this event.

That man just took us all to school on how to pray. I was blown away. He shared a story about a circus where they had a big giant lion with huge teeth and rippling muscles that was sitting politely on this little stool.

Then out came this skinny, wimpy little lion tamer man with a whip in his hand.

That lion did exactly what that lion tamer told him to do. Then he asked the question, who is more powerful, the lion or the lion tamer?

Obviously, the lion is infinitely more powerful than the lion tamer, but he said the lion has been convinced that he must obey the lion tamer because since he was a little cub, he was trained with that whip and he's become fearful of him.

Now he doesn't realize his own strength and he could eat him in one bite. He said this is what happens when we as the family of faith here in America, we are so massive.

We are legion here who love God, who prioritize family, who recognize the biblical principles of the

Constitution and bring blessing. We are way more powerful than the insecure elite who cracked the whip and caused us to submit through fear.

If only the lion knew how strong he was, it's a game changer. If only the family of faith could recognize the power we possess, we would roar and it would shatter this elite facade that is causing so much fear.

I think that we can do it. Yes, we can. I like that. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Let's go. Do you have time for one more? I think you're running out of time here. I wanted to respect that.

I saw in another interview with the storybook, Our Reading the Human Doing, and I think you were saying that you intentionally were trying to go read your book in libraries where they already had allowed drag queens and I believe the majority of them told you no.

Is that correct? If so, I wanted to hear you talk about that because I think it's pretty fascinating. I wanted to do a public reading and I requested at all these libraries and I was denied by over 50 woke libraries that previously held drag queen story hours.

If you want to be a man pretending to be a woman dressing in fishnet stockings and heels and sexualize children in public libraries sponsored by taxpayer dollars, you can do that, but if you want to go in and talk to kids about love, joy, kindness, gentleness, and self -control, it's a hard no.

That's where we started and when we finally pushed back, they recognized they were in violation of the

First Amendment and while this wasn't about getting into a political legal battle, we have to go there today because that's where the battles are being fought.

These woke people and institutions don't have the kind of integrity and self -governing ability to do the right thing at the outset.

They will push you all the way back to the corner where you are in a courtroom and if we're not willing or have the grit to go there, they will use that to bully us into submission.

Unfortunately, again, our fault. We've apathetically had our head in the sand, enjoying our

Bible studies and our theological nuances and some of us with cigars and whiskey, others who are just teetotalers, but the problem is we had no game for decades and decades and the left has a ground game.

They have not only a world view and a comprehensive one at that that is going to manifest in education, government, church, culture, military, medical community, everything.

They've got a way of advancing it and they're looking to play the long game. Christians, unfortunately, have been playing the short game.

We thought Jesus was coming back in the 1980s. We thought he was coming back in the 90s. We thought we knew who the

Antichrist was. Well, they've been saying that for an awful long time. Meanwhile, rather than looking to be rescued, the left has had a ground game to create the world they want, which is precisely the

Great Commission. That's the cultural mandate that we were tasked with. Go create a world where unrighteousness dwells, but we haven't and now we're where we see we are.

Can we just end it right there? What a way to end that conversation. Oh my goodness.

I love you a lot, Kirk. Hey, I know you've got to go. Your books, you've got the first book started trouble there at the library and you've got a new book to drop today.

Where do you want everyone to go to get it? Ta -da! It's called

Pride Comes Before the Fall. It's dropping, or should I say coming out in bookstores today,

June 1st. You could really do an awesome thing and go to BraveBooks .com.

They're a great company. If you subscribe to the Book of the Month Club, you get my book, not only my book for free, but you get a new book that comes to your front door every single month with a pro -God, pro -America value and it warns about the dangers of stuff like communism, critical race theory, and teaches the virtues of the fruit of the spirit and biblical wisdom.

The back has activities and games for the family to pull everybody together and reinforce the concepts in the book.

Just go to BraveBooks .com and sign up for the Book of the Month Club. Oh, Kirk Cameron, everybody.

I love him and I'm grateful for you, brother. Thank you for all you're doing. I hope that we can do more with you in the future. I'm grateful you made the time today for it to spend with us, brother.

Thank you. My pleasure. It's an honor to speak with you and I thank

God for all of you and the work that you're doing. Please keep it up. Don't quit. I appreciate it, brother. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Kirk.

Thanks, brother. Man, I got some growing pains after that.

See, here's the thing. I don't think that, obviously that was incredible, but I don't know if you enjoyed it as much as I mean, it's much more meaningful to us.

Oh, come on. When you're a little boy watching Kirk Cameron on TV, you have a poster in your room.

See, I know. But the truth is the truth. The truth is the truth. The truth is the truth. Yeah, I know. I know. It's just that maybe it's more nostalgia for you.

When we was kids, when we was kids, it was just a different season because you couldn't just be like, hey,

I want to watch some Growing Pains to go pull up Netflix or something and just watch it. You had to like, you know, you're just waiting all week for like, you know, the show time is at this time.

I had that too and we had to use VCRs the same way that you guys did. I don't know.

I don't know if you were quite where we were. Back in my day when we was kids, it was like, what were there, like three channels and then you just expand it to another one.

You're like, oh, we got like five channels now. We got seven channels. I remember when MTV came out, it was like there was a whole station dedicated to music and we weren't allowed to watch it.

You'd get a spanking if you watched it. I didn't even have cable. It had Run DMC on it and all kinds of other baddies.

And that's tame compared to what it is now. Compared to the Cardi B's of today. Yeah, back then it was like LL Cool J.

Yeah, that was a blast. Those were the days. Hey, y 'all heard

Kirk Cameron say some stuff on that just now. He did. Was there a victorious optimism?

I feel like the poster boy of disappointing and pessimistic eschatologies,

I feel like he's on a different path. Yeah, he's had a change of heart. That's for sure.

Yeah, he's definitely had a change of heart. Very optimistic. He said, we thought we knew who the Antichrist was. It's like, bro, you did a movie about it.

What was the Antichrist's name? Nikolai Karpathia. You knew it! I knew it!

You read the book, didn't you? Some of them. Yeah, I read the first book. Yeah, because that's when

Russia, not that Russia's good now, but Russia was the enemy. Gog, Magog. Of course, all the bad guys were

Russian. Nikolai came out of that corner of the world. I wonder if this could work for us here.

Let me see here real fast. I'm trying to see if this will work.

Hold on a second. Where's the sound? I don't have any sound here. You know what's funny? I've been watching...

Why is it so low? Turn my sound up there, Gabe. I'm going to try a little test. You can't look at the screen.

Don't look at the screen. Is this for him or me? You're going to see it. I'm going to know all the answers. Ruk -a -eye.

First of all, where's that from? Ruk -a -eye. I don't know. Oh, dude. Ruk -a -eye.

Karate Kid. Oh, thank you, Vern. I'm proud of you. Ruk -a -eye. Here we go.

What show? What show? I don't know.

Oh, no. Every person who's watching this right now is so disappointed right now.

My kids know what that is. You have culture that I didn't. No, because my wife has raised them appropriately.

So they know. They've watched the whole series of that show. Another one. Ready? You got to kick that sound up,

Gabe. Yeah, I have no idea. Oh, no.

You missed out on the best of life of the last generation. That's Family Ties. Michael J.

Fox. Family Ties. Next one. See, I wasn't allowed to watch this show.

Oh, I know this one. It was called Love and Marriage. Nope. This was a very inappropriate show.

The husband was kind of a buffoon. He was unreliable. Part of our cultural demise of turning the dad into a momo.

Marriage and Children. Al Bundy. Yeah. Christina Applegate.

Fresh Prince. Roseanne. Family Matters. All the 90s.

He's a 90s kid. You're not really an 80s kid. What month were you born? August.

Yeah, you barely made it into one of the greatest decades.

One of the greatest decades. You barely made it into it. I'm going to see how much we got.

The audience right now, let's see if you guys can answer quicker than Conover. Let's see.

Ready? The Cosby Show. I was going to say you had to know that one.

You had to know that one. I'm proud of you. You knew The Cosby Show. Good. The Huxtables.

That's right. The Huxtables. You were allowed to watch that. It was wholesome. The father was involved.

If only we knew he was a perv. Loving family. Didn't know he was drugging people. Here we go.

Bewitched. No, it's not Bewitched. Mork and Mindy. Mork and Mindy.

Mork and Mindy. I have to confess though. Mork and Mindy was

I feel like that was maybe 80. Because I was real with Mork and Mindy.

Here we go. Ready? Bro. This is one of my favorite shows of all.

This show. Happy Days. He said Happy Days. Happy Days.

I'll give you a hint. Tony Danza. Tony Danza. Danny DeVito.

Tony Danza. What's his face? Annie Kaufman. Taxi. I love

Taxi. Our audience is probably loving this right now. I don't feel like that's 80s either.

Really? Hold on now. Taxi was definitely 80s. When was

Cheers? 80s. My family, when I was a kid this is a little too much info, but they would put that theme song on just to watch me cry.

Because it made me cry. Really? I just saw some tears forming in your eyes.

It's like a four or five year old. They would just put it on and it was like everybody knows your name.

Something about that song just resonated with me. Such emotions in these songs.

These sitcom beginnings. Taxi was 78 to 83. Okay. I feel like you're right though.

It's like really back there. Let's try again. Audience, let's see if you can beat

Conover to the name of the show. Ready? May not be right for some.

A man is born. He's a man of means. They got nothing but the genes.

But they got different strokes it takes. Different strokes for different folks? He's the name of the show.

No, the name of the show is just different strokes. That's kind of not fair because it's in the...

For the record, Mork & Mindy is 78 to 82. Yeah, I distinctly remember watching

Robin Williams as a little boy in front of the TV of Mork & Mindy. I wasn't even a glimmer in my daddy's eye. I loved him.

Okay, here we go. You be living up to your dreams

And suddenly you're finding out The facts of life are all about you Mary said the name if you didn't get it.

Come on, Tootie. No idea.

It's the facts of life, baby. It's the facts of life. But to be honest, not as popular as many 80s shows.

And if you guys are just getting on the show today and you're wondering what's going on, look, we're having a good time here. We talked about theology.

You got an epic, epic message from Kirk Cameron. And look, how often do you get one of the cultural icons of the 80s to be on your show talking about Jesus and taking dominion over the world because of the gospel?

So yeah, we're doing an 80s little celebration right now. And I want to see if you guys can beat Conover to the punch.

It hasn't been too difficult. I don't know. What do you guys think, audience? Facts of life, real popular?

It was pretty popular. Really? I don't know. I did see it. I don't know. Maybe it just wasn't my family's jam.

I don't know. Let's see if this is your jam. Doogie Howser.

Doogie Howser. Doogie Howser is definitely 90s. Perfect Strangers.

Perfect Strangers. Oh. It's so funny.

That means nothing to me. Oh, it was a good show. It was funny. My wife would play this. Any theme song from the 80s, she knows it.

Are you all noticing, though, the interesting thing about the 80s? It was such a weird time because the music all had the same...

That's why Stranger Things can just create a beat with a synthesizer and you go, 80s.

That feels like 80s. 80s had... It's almost like everybody was like, that's going to be our music and here's how we're going to do theme show openings.

It is what it is. One of the unique things I think that's interesting about today is you have TV shows and movies where everyone tries to be innovative and creative.

I like that better, personally, because there's always some new feeling, some new genre. It just feels different.

But I feel like the 80s, everyone had a meeting and they were like... Everyone's pulling from the past. They're all going to sound like this.

Our shows are going to sound like this. We're going to do all of our sitcom openings with the same feeling and probably the same singers.

It all felt the same. And every 80s movie you see, it's got the same feel, the same vibe.

I just decided we're all going to make this exactly the same thing. Actually, one of the things I appreciate about our last decade is there's a lot of innovation.

Everyone tries to do something new and different and I appreciate that. It's a good attribute of God.

He's innovative. He creates out of nothing. He's good. He's creative.

He's innovative. Here we go. Ready? Next one. Let's see who answers it faster.

Here we go. Oh, gosh. This is... Good old boys.

It's the name of the song, though. Did you have the toy car? Oh, hang on.

Dukes of Hazzard. I was literally singing that to Zach yesterday when we were moving chairs around.

It was just the two of us. Did you have it? I had a Dukes of Hazzard play set.

You could launch it. Little confederate flag on it. I got that one.

Dukes of Hazzard, that was certainly a popular one. You're doing pretty good, actually.

You're doing pretty good for someone that's not really an 80s child. Here we go. He's got a couple. This is a harder one.

Sounds like a bad Neil Diamond ripoff. It's going to say it in a moment. Picture a ship.

A ship. There was a show called The Love Boat. Here we go.

This is a very big learning experience. It is. It's fun. To be honest with you, you should raise your children on these shows.

Because I was, and I'm fine. If not, you'll get to come on Apology Radio and get your gaps exposed.

For example, I don't know how you guys are in the audience, but one of the shows to this day, if I hear the music,

I just go back immediately. It was a show when I went to bed all through middle school and high school that was always on when

I was finally going to bed. I would fall asleep to it on my little TV. It wasn't like a flat screen

TV. It was a little box TV like this. It was MASH. Dude, I grew up on MASH.

I've seen every episode. I was raised on MASH. I was raised on the MASH. That was my dad's show.

When that song... I had the Atari game too.

What? There was an Atari game. There was a MASH Atari game? How did I miss this? What did you do in it?

You were like a helicopter and you had to come and rescue people. Dude, how did I miss that? I had an Atari set.

I didn't see that game. That's pretty awesome. Back when games were simpler. Zach's like, I don't know what an

Atari is. No, I know Atari. I know that. You didn't have one though. I've seen pictures in the museums.

He's like, I'm not that old. They give you up, down, side to side. That's all you can do.

The range of motion was limited. Actually, you were born in 89. Isn't 89 the year that Nintendo came out?

Nintendo was the first video game I ever saw. It was all about Super Nintendo. That was what we had.

I feel like it was 88 or 89 that Nintendo came out. I remember that. This is the spinoff from the

Cosby Show. I have to confess.

I know this song, but I don't... This is a spinoff. A different world. Was it

Denise? No, the second one went to college. Then it was a spinoff. That's right.

Very good. I know the song. It was a funny show. Here we go.

Ready? Babes in Toyland?

Wait, I know this show. It's got a regal sound. Is this Dallas? Dynasty!

There you go. That was a very Texas show. That's a very

Texas show right there. Dynasty. Dynasty. Speaking of dynasties, let's talk about Christ's Kingdom.

Okay, I like that. One that doesn't fade. Great transition.

One that never fades. Christ's Empire, everyone. I'm looking at the feed right now.

You guys are all... You guys were on it with these things. See, Darren...

Bobby Hill. Darren Stitt. He played the entire rematch game too. Did he? I didn't even know they had one.

He probably looked like he did this week when he played that game. He looks the same. Don't have to shave your beard around Luke.

Yeah, you'll get it from all of us. I was busting Darren's chops the whole car ride.

Have we met? Everywhere we were. This was like disappointment in my eyes.

Like literally his chops must have been sore. Darren Stitt. Babyface Stitt.

Babyface Stitt. On that note, guys...

Christ's Kingdom. Kirk Cameron. Isn't it awesome to hear someone like Kirk Cameron giving these truths?

I wanted to ask the question before we got off with Kirk. I wanted to ask that specific question about what is it you're standing on that is causing you to actually fight the way that you're fighting?

The reason why I ask the question is because all of our beliefs have consequences. They ought to or we don't really believe them.

Everything you believe should have consequences in your life. And like I said, if it has no consequences it's because you probably don't really believe it.

And so when you see someone like Kirk doing what he's doing and fighting these fights as an actor, as an old 80s cultural icon he was...

I mean... If you didn't grow up in the 80s you probably don't understand but Kirk Cameron's kind of a big deal.

And to have him speaking out in this way is encouraging because generally speaking you would say people who were at this stage of acting or movie making or sports or whatever, they're afraid to open their mouths because it's going to impact them financially.

And that's kind of the end thing there. It's like, this will impact me financially it'll ruin my career, it's going to ruin my reputation.

And so they're not willing to speak up. And so it is refreshing to see someone like Kirk speaking up.

And I just wanted to say, help everyone to see where you're standing. And it's clear where he's standing.

He's standing, I think, the main things that I got is that it's fear of God that'll keep you from compromise and it'll actually make you fight these fights.

But it's also his perspective that he mentioned there at the end is something that everybody has to know and understand as Christians.

This is very important. And this will probably be the final thing I say on the show today. And that is that he's exactly right.

Kirk is right that the left, the communists, the Marxists, they have had the long game vision and they literally you can read their books writing about it in the 60s that literally we're doing this a long game.

How do we turn America, who fights against communism across the world, makes excuses for wars over communism.

Like we're fighting this because communism. And you've got young boys barely graduating high school or not graduating high school going off to wars to fight what?

Communism. Proudly lay down their lives, give up their life for their country for fighting communism.

And so those communists came to America and they said, how will we get America to start believing this?

Well clearly we can't beat them in warfare. So let's wage a different kind of war. And the war that they said they wanted to wage was a long war where they would take over academia, they would take over the media, they would take over the family, they would do these things and they would do it the long game.

The long walk through the institutions. Exactly, through the institutions. And they did! They did! They won!

They successfully did. I mean you've got people today who believe all these crazy things that are so moral, so sinful, so wrong.

We've fought wars over. You've got them as the leaders of institutions today, teaching classes in old

Christian institutions. You've got like Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Harvard, all these schools now.

All the Ivy's. We gave the world these schools, the Christian worldview gave the world these schools on the basis of the

Christian worldview and the word of God and the authority of Christ. And now you've got people running them who absolutely despise everything those institutions were started on the basis of.

Within one generation. Within a generation! 40 years. 30, 40 years. It's crazy! I mean

I don't even know if the communists thought that they were going to be that successful. Like, we're going to play the long game but really?

It's only going to take a generation? Yeah. I mean actually, I was thinking, speaking of the 80's, there was a movie, and I don't remember why

I saw it recently but I thought, that's so funny. And Candy was in the room with me when that part came on.

Teen Wolf. Classic. Teen Wolf. See, I know that one. Michael J. Fox. He knows it but you didn't know where you got it from.

Big time famous movie. Teen Wolf 2 was stupid. Atrocious. It was horrible.

It was atrocious. But Teen Wolf was like, huge! And there was a part in Teen Wolf where he finally reveals to his friend, and I forget what his friend's name is.

Stiles. Stiles. When he reveals to Stiles in Stiles' garage Stiles is looking for his stash. He's looking for his marijuana.

I didn't know if he meant his mustache. He reveals to him that he's actually he can change into a wolf. But in that conversation,

Stiles is like, mocking homosexuality. Because in the 80s, listen, in the 80s that was still a thematic throughout films, media, and all the rest.

Locker room talk. That's gay, bro. Yeah, exactly. You were in the 80s media, that was being dissed, although you started seeing little introductions.

It was like a piece at a time. It was desensitized. It was not all at once. Turn the water up slowly.

Here's what I'm saying. Brokeback Mountain couldn't have come out in 1982. Or 92.

Brokeback Mountain could have come out in 1982 in a seedy back alley

New York City adult men's shop. That's where it could have come out.

But it couldn't have come out and been a hit in the theaters because it still wasn't worked in enough yet. They needed to say, you need to have characters in the movie that are the lovable LGBT people.

You need to have them as the heroes. They're the good friends. They're the ones with all the wisdom and the good advice.

We portray them this way and so you see this cultural transformation where in the 50s you've got

PSAs public service announcements about the homosexual in your community and then in the 80s little introductions of the homosexual character and everything else and then you have the 90s was a big push a big push and turnover of now it's commonplace, you better accept it and if you don't accept it, you're a bigot and you're the bad guy and you're the mean one and then you get to this place now where it's just forced on everyone's throats.

What you just described is what Vodi gave that whole talk about how the agenda was foisted upon the public.

I'll have to link it. I just saw a link of it on Twitter last night. He talks about how they explicitly say in their plans that this was what they were going to use.

They were going to use propaganda they were going to use lies they were going to use deception and they were going to do three things.

They were going to desensitize jam and convert. So they were going to slowly but surely introduce the kind gay characters and reduce the sensitivity to those things and then anyone who would want to speak up in opposition to that and say no this is immoral this is ungodly,

God doesn't accept this behavior these lifestyles would immediately be labeled a KKK or someone that hated people and that was judgmental.

The negative connotations like you just hate people you want to see them dead and you are trampling on their civil rights all of these things so any

Christian voice so to speak that rose up against this was immediately labeled bigot, hateful homophobe all of that so they were blocked.

The opposition was blocked but then the third phase was all about conversion how do we create allies which is what the

A in the LGBTQIA stands for how do we create allies people that aren't even necessarily gay or homosexual but are straight but are advocating for the rights the civil rights of the gay,

I wouldn't even use the phrase community because there can't be meaningful really community out of that in the strictest most basic sense but that was how this whole plot was foisted upon the public.

The desensitization jamming and then ultimately the conversion where now it's gone from being publicly accepted, this is an allowance we're going to carve out a small sector where this group can exist and still have their thing but they're not going to bother you and in one generation we've gone from that whole thing being introduced to now where we are where it is demanded that you celebrate it is demanded that you not only give your stamp of approval but you dance in the streets with us over the perversion you want to feel really old?

probably not, you don't want to but it just dawned on me that we are in the tail end of being within a generation of the 80's yeah yeah that's really encouraging what

Kirk said about that actually we are out of that we are out of that generation, it has been a generation we're 3 years out of that well a generation is 40 years so we have another 7 years to be in of the late 80's yeah yeah thanks for that appreciate it but what he said about that was really encouraging like if this happened in a generation then with faithful Christian activity what's going to happen in the next generation hey the

Holy Spirit was poured out of Pentecost that was one day the gospel exploded across the empire after proclamation of the gospel in one day so I'll take another one of those

I'd like to order one of those please I'll have one of those and a side of fries I'll take that please yeah we're grateful for Kirk Cameron guys we're going to head over in a moment here to Apologia's after show, we're going to talk some more actually

I wanted to talk a bit about same conversation we're in now but talk about some biblical foundations for why we should believe that actually there's going to be victory in history

I'm going to do it in a unique way because I'm actually preaching on it this Sunday at church and talk about it in terms of God's wisdom about how unrighteousness doesn't have success it will lead to death and destruction and it is actually the righteous that will prosper and it is the righteous that will never be removed but I wanted to encourage you guys all if you would, first of all thank you to all of you guys that have given to EAN and give consistently and faithfully to EAN you have helped us to either get in bills across the country this year or to support other churches pastors and organizations who have gotten bills themselves across the country over 15 bills of abolition and equal protection have happened this first session and I just have so much

I learned this last week I just got home last night, sorry my brain's not really working well right now you got

Kirk Cameron on the brain? Yeah, I have jet lag my brain's shut down today but I just came back from Alabama for our bill that's there, you guys helped to get that in and to help us to pay for it to be drafted and all the work that we've done there so I just want to say thank you to all of you who have given towards EAN and continue to give we need your help and support desperately because these fights cost money, it costs money to get these bills and it costs money to go and fight these battles on the ground and to raise these churches up, it costs money and so we need your help and so if you would, please go to endabortionnow .com

to give there, to continue to support the work thousands of babies have been saved look, and Apologia Church is still involved locally with so many of the local churches that are out saving lives we're right now at Apologia helping four mothers, four mothers locally from saves we had, we're helping them taking care of their needs and all the rest, helping one with an adoption, so praise the lord for that, and so babies are still being saved where their lives are being taken but of course you all know that we're all taking it to the next stage of actually establishing justice at the legislature, so please give endabortionnow .com

is where you go, hey and if I could, Gabe could you throw up that, there you go

Andy P thank you for the super chat Andy thank you so much, would you all ever do an event where all AXS members can tag along and learn street preaching from you, with you guys, hey honestly, better than just forming an event for that you could come out to Arizona spend a week, we've got evangelism happening across our town multiple different places, if you wanted to come we would of course probably want to make sure your pastor's okay with that but just come and spend time and just hang out with Apologia Church as we go out and do evangelism we'd be happy to do something like that, is that the only super chat?

No there's several, actually it's Amre and Andy here, sounds like he lives in Arizona he also said

I saw Conover's tweet about faux conservatives, conservatives abandoning conservatism and accepting homosexual allies, it's very problematic, maybe we can talk about that in the after show, yeah let's do that, okay guys so we're going to head over to the after show, if you have

Apologia All Access and you are a partner in this ministry with us, you make it all possible we want to continue to bless you and be an encouragement to you and serve you and do more content for you guys over there, so we're heading over to ApologiaStudios .com

All Access, we'll catch you guys over there thank you again for being a part of all that we're doing, God bless you guys, that's