May 6, 2020 Show with Dr. David C. Innes on “Christ & the Kingdoms of Men: Foundations of Political Life”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown, Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Iron Sharpens Iron and the Call to Mutual Edification

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com this is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this sixth day of May 2020 and I am thrilled to have back after a very long absence a guest who is a fascinating Individual indeed, dr. David C Ennis professor of politics and chair of the program in politics philosophy and economics at the King's College in New York City and He is going to be discussing one of his books today Christ and the kingdoms of men Foundations of political life and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back the iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr. David C Ennis. Thank You Chris, it's good to be back. Let me right away give our listeners our email address. Should you have any question at all on politics? Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com ch r is a R n Z n at gmail .com and please as always give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. First of all, David Tell us about the program in politics philosophy and economics at the King's College in New York City and all that entails.

I know that the King's College has a.

History of being a conservative College but being in New York City You still might have a wider spectrum of viewpoints and ideologies and worldviews than you might normally in other parts of the United States.

Are your students from a spectrum of? political Ideology and worldviews or are they pretty much in the same?

Sphere of Understanding of these things or belief things college for a variety of reasons sometimes for our The the college is. This is a very interesting title.

For your book Christ and the kingdoms of men if you could please explain the exact wording of this.

Well, it is the kingdoms of men politics. There's to be just and they chain claim to be good for us and sometime most times their lives that God has has anointed his son and to be. And what was the.

Primary motivation for you writing this book there are other books by Christians even conservative and reformed Christians like you and Obviously you felt a need for a new volume to be added to those.

So what was the the strongest motivation for you to write this? Yeah, why one more book? Where do I get off?

I find I'll find that in script. Well, you've got some very impressive.

Commendations for this book by very impressive people. Marvin Olasky editor-in-chief for World magazine who happens to be a sponsor of this program. He says dr. Ennis is far wiser than those such as former representative Barney Frank quoted within as saying Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.

Christ and the kingdoms of men shows that we have many ways to do things together. All who read it will learn which activities should involve government and which should not. And Then also a Joseph M. Kippenberg professor of politics at Ogle Fork University Says at once learned and lucid.

Sophisticated and accessible the book certainly serves its principal audience students and the reading public. Exceedingly well, but teachers teachers and Christian intellectuals should not be misled by the word foundations in the subtitle.

The book is a formidable synthesis of deep scriptural and theological learning on the one hand and a broad and rich understanding of the history of political philosophy on the other. We will long be in professor Ennis's debt.

And then finally Kevin L Clawson director the Center for Faith Freedom and the Constitution at Bryan College Says this book is long overdue and much-needed the Lord of Heaven desires that we serve him in the government Political legal realm here on earth and this book helps us know how to do that in Addition and enables us to ask the important questions that night might take us deeper into the this most crucial subject.

Dr. Ennis has given all of us of whatever theological stripe a critical work at a critical time very impressive words by impressive men and One thing that is interesting to me and The same is true with theological understanding.

We have a Bible that we believe as Conservative Christians we believe that is inerrant. We believe not only that but it is the sole infallible authority over the church other than God himself, of course and We believe that is we believe in the perpiscuity of Scripture.

We believe that it is plain and in understandable although obviously Peter said that some of the things Paul has written are hard to understand and We we are required to have teachers. So is not all extremely simple, but the gospel itself and the things that we need to know are simple.

Why is it do you think that there is such a broad spectrum not only of theological understanding but even of political thought amongst Brethren in Christ that might even you might have brethren in the same denomination and perhaps even in the same pew.

Who vote differently?

Yeah, I think called the noetic effects of the fall right? The effects a whole lot easier. What you know, I don't. I didn't dive into this as like a 22 years I went out To seminary and you know, Gordon Conwell a couple years at our report perform Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh then seven years in the pastoral ministry and then back into academia so the Lord has been shaping me informing me giving me time to think in various contexts under and And with and me as well, so I'm ready to run around.

Sure in the orthodox fluffy denomination. And that is also all this training is his I I think an informed and worthy one to the public conversation.

The Noetic Effects of the Fall and Christian Political Disagreement

Now. What are a Christian's civic responsibilities?

Pardon me. What are a Christian's civic responsibilities? Oh To the powers that be they are God's sure to know what will dimension their moral dimension I say reasonably and. And then you'll hold our heart and then in other regards Helping one another out.

You are being a good to your children Wisely and the Lord is all being a good to the more power. Yes, you know, that's something you don't often hear.

But I'm just throwing that in there. Well, I guess even though these are not the words of Scripture they ring true the famous very famous often quoted words by Lord Acton that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts.

Absolutely. This is one of the key areas of Why I believe Christians Or no one for that matter should put absolute trust in Those that are governing over us and yet we are to be submissive to them. And of course, I know as a Christian You believe that is true to a point.

We are never to disobey God to disobey mere men who are in places of governing authority that they may be men that actually Hate with a passion Jesus Christ and everything his word stands for. So sometimes the areas are not clear-cut though, for instance.

Do you think that it is within the Liberty and perhaps even the duty of a Christian? who is a citizen of a nation such as the United States. There are some things that are very obvious that are violations of God's law like abortion like same-sex marriage things like that, but sometimes a government may be Illegally according to our own Constitution, they may be violating that very Constitution Which is not a God-breathed document.

But it is still supposed to be the rule book as it were. It's really meant to was meant to restrain the power of the government and How does a Christian respond? When the the governing authorities are violating The Constitution and yet what they are insisting upon might not According to scriptural definition be sent.

I mean do we still have to follow these things that mere men's sinful men and Dishonest men are commanding us to do.

What did Paul. And he said with all due respect levels of government as well. There's the federal government and there's something called the doctrine of these levels of governmental to a lower level of things and then of course Circumstances.

Well, that's very often.

Divides the the world view of of people in this world as to their Understanding of the level of submission that we are to give to earthly authorities and we are seeing that now during the kovat Kovat hysteria going on.

I mean when I say hysteria, obviously The the the kovat 19 virus is a real thing and people are dying but at the same time there is hysteria, I believe attached to it and you have people in the media speaking with authority who the very next day sometimes are contradicting themselves 180 degrees and we don't know how to behave and you have People being very angry over the level to which their fellow citizens and neighbors are obeying some of the The the it's it varies between requests and Commands by the governing authorities.

Yeah how we are to And if and when we are to assemble in public and what we are to be wearing and all those things and right now it tends to be those on the left who are Infuriated with many of our conservative brethren and fellow citizens who are more leery typically of Governor governing authorities and and they're the ones being more involved in protests and so forth.

How do you view that as far as We have gatherings of those who are demanding that their places of business being opened and they are Not they're even gathering in public in defiance of some of the Rules that have been laid out on how far you are to be from the person Nearest you and wearing face masks and so on there.

They're defying those Regulations and so on how do you respond when you see that as a Christian who is also very Understand who has a deep understanding of politics.

And what do you do about it. And and. One idea was to well in quarantine all the most vulnerable and everyone else go by get sick, you know, we'll deal with it. We chose quarantine the whole country submitted to that because it seemed reasonable.

Significant number of people. The measures start looking part saying well, you know, we'll we'll Pandemic them right and and what these people are. So be the end. I didn't think goings was necessary. I thought it was.

Okay, actually when large crowds gather like that, especially when they're angry I think.

Masks make them more intimidating.

But yeah, we deal with a general bar looking into and. This is how free and and and where we lean. Regarding which trade-off on life and security. I mean if life was the most important thing and and and not Liberty at all.

Then we could just all like shut down forever. It helped. Nobody would nobody would die ever I think wealth and enjoy the the dignity of some reasonable level of prosperity. For no other reason the love of our name.

So this is what we're working through as a free people and when we come back from our first break when which we are going.

To now I want you to explain The difference between a democracy and a constitutional Republic. Under the rule of law, it seems that The vast majority of people in this country believe we are a democracy.

When that is not the case perhaps you could distinguish between the two. And then after that I'd like you to move on to Tell us what activities should involve government and which should not. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris a RN Z and gmail .com and as always, please give us your first name. At least your city and state in your country of residence. If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

So don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back with David Ennis right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 or less than 90 minutes to go is Dr. David C Ennis professor of politics and Chair of the program in politics philosophy and economics at the King's College in New York City.

We are addressing the theme Christ and the kingdoms of men foundations of political life. Which is also the title of one of his recent books. And if you have a question, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. We already have a number of listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered by dr Ennis, but before that I wanted you to go into the difference between a democracy and a constitutional Republic under the rule of law and Express which best reflects what we are as a nation.

Democracy, Constitutional Republic, and the Rule of Law

Okay, I'm glad you asked that question. I don't want to bore you with my Boring people and I'm gonna use the name Aristotle and you're not to think oh that's going to be boring. Because just wait can you know 400 because that they will make laws suit them at other people's expense whether it's at the Numerical minority like the the typically the rich or or a regional minority or an ethnic or racial minority.

That's what we need and the and the framers of this country the founders of this country the framers of our Constitution understood that and they said that they did not want toocratic government to be sure of.

The people by the people selected every six years and then only one-third at a time. And then you put you've written constitution time they cannot happen to be in the minority can be a good large middle-class able.

Inseparably linked to that is it not is the Electoral College. Ah Yes. Yeah, I had that in mind.

Yeah, the Electoral College have a part of. Now is that it a direct popular to be forgotten fly overcome. Conversely that country making sure the whole country is taken. It's okay. Now we can move on to the differences of.

What Government should be involved in and what it should not be involved in.

Another reason I wrote the book is that we're living in a time fundamental to step fundamental. Disagree. It's what I call the great marriage. Things have never been heard of since the beginning of time and now and.

And drag queen television programs being advertised on Fox News. That I don't know Fox is anything to do with that though to be honest. It could be the local cable company that has a sales team that have the liberty to.

Yeah, that's just stuff that goes on in, Pennsylvania. And so I begin the book with an Orthodox war of everything. God made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them and if he made them He made them for a purpose what a human being degree and what a human being is then.

Choose a tool. In fact, we're gonna have you get more in detail involved in that when we return from our midway break.

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Which subsequently means that we more than likely will remain on the air because we depend upon our advertisers to exist. Without our advertisers. We would not be on the on the air barring a miracle of God so we ask of you to please support our advertisers whenever possible and sometimes that may mean just Writing a letter to a church that's on the other side of the country that you have no ability to physically attend.

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James White of Alpha and Omega ministries and the dividing line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the Brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio on the air. Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio.

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Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio Financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as Revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes. Or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby.

We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

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The Coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life bringing so many Uncertainties, when will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety fear and the like? Well join us each Friday on the program iron sharpens iron with your host Chris Arnzen and Pastor Joe Jacobs as they explore God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues.