Trevor Loudon: Enemies within the Church

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Naturally, most of our weekly topics are creation themed but from time to time we are blessed with some off topic presentations to tonight it may seem we're off.

We are off topic, because we have a special guest speaker author and filmmaker Trevor loud and here to talk to us about the documentary enemies within the church.

However, you will hear a lot of mentioned tonight and in that film about communism and socialism in the creation and Earth History Museum and Santee where we got our start there is a hallway devoted to the reality that ideas have consequences, and that evolutionary thinking leads to ideology such as communism and socialism, although he's here to talk to us about enemies within the church before that Trevor loud and wrote the book, the enemies within in 2013 and narrated and hosted the documentary of the same name in 2016 exposing ties of high level elected

US politicians with their radical anti American allies, Trevor who is from New Zealand has actually been researching the topic for over 30 years, so he had much to contribute to the enemies within the church documentary

Trevor loud and as a contributor to the Epoch Times and maintains his own website, new zeal lighting the torch for liberty, you can find that and more information about Trevor at Trevor loud and calm.

And if you have questions during his presentation if you're in zoom you can put them here in the chat if you're watching along on Facebook, you can put them into the comments and at the end of his presentation.

I'll ask those questions for you. But to start out with Trevor what happened to the church in America.

Well thanks for the great very thorough introduction was, it was very good. You've done your research.

Okay, so to start with this. What is what is revolution, you know we are given three main institutions by God to govern us.

We're given the church, we're given the family, and we're given civil government. Now, all three of those institutions are under attack right now.

And it leads with the church of the church is is strong and leading and it's, and everybody looks to it for moral guidance, the families are sound and civil government stays within those boundaries.

But if the church goes astray or abandons that leadership role, the families fall apart, and the civil government gets out of control, and I think that's where we are now.

So this revolution is overturning those natural institutions, given to us by God, this is ultimately satanic.

So, so the devil wants to overthrow God's work on earth as part of overthrowing

God in heaven. You know it's it's a futile exercise but he can do a lot of damage in the process, if we let him.

So if you're a Marxist at the beginning of the 20th century, you wanted a world revolution, and the number one impediment was the

United States of America. And the backbone of the United States is of course the church, the

Christian church that the Constitution came out of the Bible. You know representative government came out of Mosaic law,

America was the first country in world history founded on the concept that rights come from God, not the government.

You don't have constitutional rights, you have God given rights, protected by the

Constitution. So the very first communist front in America was the

Methodist Committee for Social Action, back in 1907 even before the

Bolshevik Revolution. In the early 1920s the Communist Party in this country told its members, if you're brought up Baptist, go back to the

Baptist, if you're brought up Catholic, go back to the Catholic Church. If you're brought up Jewish, go back to the synagogue.

They sent their people into the religious institutions, not to learn from them, to bring them into socialism.

The Catholics thought they were safe because they would, you know, to infiltrate the leadership of the

Catholic Church you have to take a lifelong vow of celibacy and become a

Catholic priest, then a bishop, then a cardinal, then maybe a pope. Pope Francis is a

Marxist for instance. But they thought they were safe because no young communist would do that.

But Balla Dodd, who was a Catholic who became a communist, then went back to her faith, testified before the

US Congress in the 1930s that she'd put over 500 young men into the

Catholic priesthood, 500 young communists. And I think many of them were homosexual and they didn't have to worry about a lifelong vow of celibacy.

And that's where the church got hit with the double whammy of a leftward drift and the pedophile priest problem.

By the 1960s when they had Vatican II, the big liberal shift, a lot of these young communists were now bishops or even cardinals.

But there was a big thing that happened in the 1960s that had its roots in the 1920s.

Now, some of you may have heard of the term situation ethics. The situation ethics means to abandon the

Old Testament laws, to abandon the Ten Commandments and adopt a new moral system.

Now, it was popularized in 1966 when a man called Joseph Fletcher wrote a book of that name.

And his argument was simple. We're living in a complex world. Our moral bearings are not up to what is expected of us.

We need a new morality. We need situation ethics. We look at each moral problem in context.

We get all the context. We look at the circumstances. We look at the situation. Then we make the most loving decision.

Now, you could argue this. Say a young woman who might be 26 years old and she's in a

PhD program at a very prestigious Ivy League college.

She's invested $200 ,000 in her education. She's got a brilliant future ahead of her.

She's going to do lots of good. But then she falls pregnant. And she's thinking, well, this is very inconvenient.

This is going to ruin my career. It's going to waste all my money. I won't be able to do the great good that I was going to do.

And I won't be able to give this child within me the kind of loving environment that it needs, a two -parent family.

Maybe the most loving thing to do, given the circumstances, will be to have an abortion.

That is situation ethics. The pastor who says, well,

I've got a new church here. I've got a big mortgage. I want to preach the gospel as it's written.

But I notice when I do preach some of the tough parts of the Old Testament and some of the hellfire and brimstone parts and the sin and repentance and some of the harsher parts, a lot of my people get very, very antsy.

And some of them don't come back. Maybe the more loving thing to do would be to just focus on the soft, loving parts of the

Bible. You know, dumb down the message a little bit. That'll keep more people in my church.

Maybe that's a more loving thing to do. That's situation ethics. Most moral decisions in America are made on that framework today.

Look at what's around you and make the loving decision. It's basically a way to justify almost anything you really want to do anyway and give it a moral veneer.

Well, that concept came out in 1966.

It took the country by storm. It took the church by storm. It was the hippie era.

Dr. Spock, the leftist, has been telling every American parent, don't discipline your kids.

Be their friend. You would have spoiled rotten generation and situation ethics was just perfect.

And we've never recovered from it. Well, Joseph Fletcher, after he wrote his book, he left the church and declared himself an atheist and started up a group proposing euthanasia for handicapped children up to the age of 10 years old.

Back in the 1930s and late 20s, Joseph Fletcher had been involved in communist party fronts in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Then he was involved in the communist sharecroppers union of Alabama. Then he moved to Harvard, Boston, and started moving up the church hierarchy.

He was a very respected professor at the Episcopalian Divinity School at Harvard.

You know, wrote books, lectured all over the world. Very, very respected Christian. He also helped

Margaret Sanger set up Planned Parenthood. He was the head, a leader of the

American Soviet Friendship Society, a communist party front, and the World Peace Council, a

Soviet front group set up by Stalin to demilitarize the United States.

He was identified as attending communist party meetings in Boston on a regular basis.

The man was a Marxist Leninist. He was a communist pretending to be a

Christian, and he transformed the morality of a nation. He couldn't have done that outside the church.

He couldn't have done that as a labor organizer. He couldn't have done that as a Black Lives Matter radical.

He had to do it inside the church because the church has the moral authority needed to get this kind of message to many people and give it credibility.

Well, by the time the 60s had rolled around, the 70s had rolled around, most

American churches were completely controlled by socialists and Marxists.

They were affiliated to the National Council of Churches, which was affiliated to the

World Council of Churches, which was called the Communist Party of Prayer.

It was affiliated with the KGB. Meanwhile, the evangelical churches had exploded.

A lot of people had left the socialist Christianity and gone on to evangelicalism.

The Baptist church was very, very strong. The Southern Baptist, very socially conservative, very biblically, you know, a lot of biblical integrity.

Because they all believed, these people that, and they all tended to be very politically conservative because they reasoned that if you believe in free will, that we have a choice between good and evil, we must be designed to live in a free nation, a free country.

A constitutionally protected country. There's no point in having free will in a socialist or communist country.

So therefore, that's not God's design for us. But there was a group of Marxists in the 1970s who tried to, and these evangelicals, you know, they're the ones who elected

Ronald Reagan, they're involved in the moral majority, the Christian coalition. They were pro -free enterprise, they were pro -constitution, they were pro -Israel, pro -America, very, very patriotic.

But there was a counter group, a small group of evangelicals who were basically

Marxists. People like Richard Mahle, who'd been in Students for a Democratic Society, Jim Wallace, who had also been in Students for a

Democratic Society, Ron Sider, and others. And they established in 1973 a thing called the

Chicago Declaration, and it was an attempt to build a left -wing movement inside the evangelical churches.

It was, you know, it was all about social justice, diminishing America's role in the world, diminishing

America's military, equal redistribution of wealth, all this kind of thing, bringing socialism into the evangelical movement.

But by and large, the evangelicals wanted nothing to do with it. You know, they were getting ready to fall in love with Ronald Reagan and save America from the

Marxists. They didn't want a socialist church. So this movement fizzled out, but many of the members went into the seminaries and the

Bible colleges, and they started to build up their influence in those institutions. At the same time, this is the

Vietnam War era, you had a lot of American young communist radicals, street -level radicals,

SDS members, Weather Underground members, etc., who didn't want to be drafted to go and fight their communist brothers in Vietnam.

Instead, they took deferments and went and fought for socialism in the

Bible colleges and the seminaries. So this movement, this penetration of the evangelical churches, really started in the 1970s.

By the 80s and the 90s, these people were moving up the hierarchy. By the early 2000s, many of these people were running

Bible colleges. They were writing books. They had set up the Gospel Coalition. They had set up the

Sojourners. They had set up Red Letter Christians, all these organizations, and they were all about social justice

Christianity, what we now call woke Christianity. And they were starting to gain influence.

But these crazy evangelicals and the Southern Baptists were still going out there, and they were voting for Ronald Reagan, who set the communist agenda back for years.

And then a few years after that, they voted for George Bush, who didn't quite set the communist agenda back so far, but at least he went through the motions.

George Bush, too, that was. And then a few years after that, they all voted for Donald Trump. And Trump really, really screwed the communists up in a big way, especially the

Chinese. And we've got to understand the world communist movement is still going.

The invasion of Ukraine is part of this. The threatening of Taiwan, that's communism. The LGBTQ movement is

Marxist. The Black Lives Matter is a Chinese communist operation. We have communism all around us.

We just don't call it that because we don't know what it is or its roots. You know, the critical race theory in the schools is communist.

The environmental movement, the open borders movement, the anti -gun rights movement, the feminist movement, all of these are

Marxist movements. And they're all very active in America today. But most people don't connect the dots.

We're in a revolution right now. So in 2005, and I'm going to name a few names here.

Some people might read their books and they might gasp and be a bit horrified. But we've done our research.

You know, Tim Keller, who had a very deeply socialist background but poses as a conservative, set up the

Gospel Coalition. And this had many spinoffs.

And they started to put out some arguments. The old Marxists in the churches would preach 90 %

Marxism and 10 % Christianity. And it wasn't enough. So now the new breed, the

Tim Kellers of the world and the Mark Divas and people like that, they preach 90 % gospel and 10 %

Marxism. It's much more palatable. And so they started to spread these social justice messages and these

LGBTQ friendly messages and these welcoming refugees across the border messages and these environmental messages.

They started to infiltrate them into the conservative churches, into the

Southern Baptists through people like Russell Moore and J .D. Greer and even Al Mohler.

Unbelievably enough, but he was part of this. And they even got into groups like InterVarsity and Campus Crusade for Christ, now known as CRU.

These organizations are woke now. They are Marxist. Don't send them your money.

Don't let your kids be indoctrinated by them. They're not the same as they were when you were in college.

I can tell you that for sure. You go to a Campus Crusade for Christ webinar. They say

God at the beginning, Jesus at the end, and there's two hours of Marxism in the middle. It's all critical race theory.

It's all white privilege. It's all Marxism. I'll give you an example. InterVarsity is another organization like this.

There was a big, we have this in our movie. We've got, we've done a two hour documentary, enemies within the church.

We had over 100 whistleblowers from seminaries, from CRU, et cetera.

Only 10 of them would come on camera. They gave some devastating testimony. And, you know, one of them, this

InterVarsity, when we show an example in 2015, there was about 4 ,000 kids.

4 ,000 kids at an InterVarsity conference in St. Louis, Missouri. And because it's the

Midwest, they're mostly white. And the keynote speaker was a young black pastor from St.

Louis, Missouri called Michelle. I've just forgotten her name.

I'm sorry. Michelle something. It's in the movie. You can see it. And Michelle Higgins.

And she got up and berated these kids. The admission from God was to end their white privilege.

This was the number one sin, the sin of racism. These kids, they could be on food stamps, but they had white privilege over the black football player with $40 million a year.

They're part of the oppressive class. The concept of white privilege was invented by two

Communist Party members, Noel Ignatiev and Ted Allen back in the 60s. It's a concept, the old

Communist revolutionary strategy of the workers rising up against the capitalists doesn't work very well in America.

So they adopted Marxist principles to race. Now it's the white, the oppressed peoples of color will rise up and take away the wealth and the power of the white capitalist

Christian patriarchy. This is the message of Black Lives Matter. So, and it's in churches all over now.

So they were told to end their white privilege. This is a Marxist concept.

They were not told that Michelle Higgins was a member of the Organization for Black Struggle.

That is the Communist group that burnt Ferguson, Missouri to the ground in 2014. It's a front for another

Communist group called Liberation Road. That's the group that set up Black Lives Matter.

That works directly for the Communist Chinese. Black Lives Matter is a Communist Chinese front, but their message has been accepted in churches all over America now.

So what we're getting to is this. We're getting to a stage where the churches, the

Bible colleges in particular, are where the universities were 10 years ago.

Heavily Marxist infiltrated. Not all of them are. The majority are, to some degree or another.

They're well on the way to being completely taken over, and they're turning out thousands of new indoctrinated pastors who are going to change the whole direction of the

American church, the world church, because this is happening everywhere. So if we're going to save the church, we need to understand what real

Christianity is, and we need to understand what fake Christianity is. We need to be able to differentiate.

So enemies within the church, names and names, shows the programs, shows the history, interviews whistleblowers, and lays out very clearly where modern

Christianity is being attacked by bona fide Marxists in the Baptist church, in the mainstream churches, in the evangelical churches, and it's transforming

American Christianity into something unrecognizable, completely unrecognizable.

You can go to a lot of churches in America today. You'll hear very little about hell or the

Old Testament or being held to account. You will hear about your white privilege. You will hear about social justice.

You will be worrying a lot more about global warming than sub -global warming.

You'll be, you know, basically becoming a left -wing

Christian, which is not a Christian at all. It's just somebody who believes they're a Christian, but it's basically being taught

Marxism. And this will be the fate of millions of young American kids who go to the church for the first time and don't know any different.

Churches are being destroyed over this right now. Churches are being twisted and corrupted and perverted and taken out of the political sphere and just being turned into instruments of the state.

That's the current state of the American church. And some of you may think

I'm exaggerating. I don't know what part of the country you're in. There's always good churches wherever you go.

They tend to be smaller. They often tend to be non -denominational. The bigger the denomination and the bigger the church, the more likely they are to run into trouble.

So we did the movie so people can identify the problem.

They can identify the crime that's been committed against the church. They can have ammunition to take to their pastor, to take to their board of elders, to take to their fellow churchgoers to say this is what they're teaching now.

This is what the youth pastor is teaching. This is Marxism. Are we going to allow this in our church?

And you can speak with credibility. You can actually give an argument to why this is

Marxism, why this is not Christianity, how it's been infiltrated. And this movie is going all over.

We're translating into nine languages, including Portuguese and Spanish and Korean and Japanese, Chinese, French, German, Italian.

We're going to get it all around the world. It's going like hotcakes in America. People are buying 100 copies at a time, taking it to their church, taking it to their pastor.

It's creating quite a storm out there. It really is. And I think every

Christian should see it. It doesn't mean they're going to agree with everything in it. But I'm sure you'll find if you do and you check out the evidence, it will all stack up.

Every non -Christian should see it as well, because if we lose the church in America, we lose the culture and we lose the politics.

We lose freedom in America. It's all over. So we're in a critical situation.

The devil is inside God's church, right inside, and he's preaching from the pulpit and thousands of them every

Sunday. This is not a healthy situation. And we need to be aware of it.

There's no point listening to a webinar like this on a Thursday night and going to a socialist church on a

Sunday. It ain't going to do you a lot of good. So I'll call it quits there for the presentation.

I'm happy to take any questions, any pushback, any comments, any criticisms of what

I've said so far. I'm sure what I've said may have shocked or upset one or two in the audience, but I'm happy to take questions.

I think we have, like I've seen the film and a few of us have, but I think we have some people who haven't that might be digesting what you've just said.

So we do have some questions. Robin, did you want to ask something first? I was just going to say I never knew who

Tim Keller or Al Mohler was until this movie, because I don't know,

I like the Bible, and I, you know, believe in Jesus and creation.

So I've never really followed any preacher. I didn't realize how popular it is to follow people and to quote them.

Yeah, and I think you're on the right track. You know, really, if people read their own

Bible and really live it, they're going to learn more than going to this massive mega church and listening to some pumped up preacher.

But there are millions of people in these big denominations, like Al Mohler is a deeply followed

Christian in this country. Tim Keller, people love his books. They quote from him. You know, he's very popular and he's leading people astray.

So you may not be aware of these people, but I'll tell you what, people around you are certainly aware of these people and are being influenced by these people.

And, you know, if you're a radical, if you wanted to destroy America, would you not want to get inside God's church?

Wouldn't that be the place you could do the most damage? Because that's what they're trying to do. They have certainly succeeded.

Thank you. They have. Yeah. And it's interesting. You know, Tim Keller specifically,

I've been posting a lot of stuff getting ready for this. And so I've been posting it even for my own friends and fellow churchgoers.

And it's been kind of interesting to see some feathers get ruffled. I can imagine.

Oh, well, everything I've read of Tim Keller's is really good. And I'm thinking that's not a reason to promote somebody.

Like, if the only thing I ever read from Adolf Hitler was the quote that, you know, repeat a lie often enough and people believe it.

Well, that's true. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. Well, let's see. Tim Keller, we went through 10 years of Tim Keller's sermons.

And he quotes Marx or postmodernist philosophers something like 180 times in 10 years.

His concept of reweaving society is just that. It comes from John Perkins, who was an open communist.

And it's redistribution of wealth. That's what it is. And Tim Keller is a registered

Democrat who hated Donald Trump. You know, it comes out, and that alerted a few people.

But, you know, on biblical issues, he's quite conservative, quite conservative.

Social issues, he's quite conservative. Abortion, etc. But some of his friends are just getting more and more radical every day.

They have this great little scam they have going. See, they want people to vote for the left.

They want people to vote for Democrats. So what they say is, don't get hung up because the Democrats are so pro -abortion.

If the Democrats get their social policies in which alleviate poverty, which are the main cause of abortion, they will argue, voting

Democrat will actually reduce abortion. How about that? That's an argument coming out of the

Gospel Coalition, the whole of life argument. If you're pro -life, you've got to protect life all the way through.

And you've got to protect life by giving everybody government money from the cradle to the grave.

That's one of their devious little arguments. And to what

Robin was saying, too, about reading the Bible and other people. You know, in the film,

I remember something that stood out to me, that they talk about how cashiers learn how to recognize counterfeits by studying the correct ones.

Yes. Well, that's right. If you've got a very, very strong biblical worldview and you really know your

Bible, you're not going to be sucked in very easily by this stuff. You're going to know that Black Lives Matter is not a biblical organization.

You're going to know that the Bible isn't about race. You're going to know that the

Bible believes in borders and countries. It doesn't believe in illegal immigrants breaking laws.

You know, he who will not protect his family is worse than an infidel. So you'll be aware.

But a lot of people are not. They have a very shallow learning. They go to these big megachurches.

They basically get fed a watered -down version of the Bible. They listen to some rock music.

They have some coffee at the shop. Talk to their buddies, and that's their spiritual connection over for the week.

And then they do it all again the week after. Those people are easy meat for this kind of stuff.

Easy meat. And the young people that are coming in, the young people think, well,

I haven't been to church since I was a kid. I'm really drifting in life. I really don't know where I'm going. I need to go back to church.

But when they go back to church, it's not the church they went to when they were five years old.

It is social justice and critical race theory, and it's all about global warming and LGBTQ friendly, all this kind of stuff.

And they either leave or they adopt this new kind of socialist Christianity.

So, yeah, it's great. Well, obviously, people on a call like this, you've got a very strong biblical worldview, or you wouldn't be here.

But a lot of Christians don't have that and are the people who are falling by the wayside right now.

We have replays, so we're hoping my goal is to get the word out to as many people, because this will be posted to a social media platform.

We're kind of on thin ground with YouTube, so your words will go out. So that's it.

Thank you. I don't know how long it will last on YouTube, but all the rest sounds good. Yeah, it's possible.

Yeah, it's possible. I won't put it on YouTube, but it'll be on Bitshoot and Rumble. Yeah, well, that's right.

But they'll put it on YouTube just for the joke, but see how long they take to take it down. Well, we're at two strikes, so we have to be careful.

I'll be surprised you've even got a channel left, to be honest, but good for you, you know. So, okay, we have a question from Erica.

She says, we just left a church that started cozying up to a group called North Alabama Pastors United for Change, which has a mission of addressing and attempting to fix racism and promote racial and social justice.

What is the right way for Christians and the church to speak out against racism, because remaining silent isn't good either, without going full woke?

And then, how do you approach a pastor who is beginning to steer his church down the woke path?

Yeah, good questions. Well, I would say it's very easy, you know. The Bible gives you, you know, do unto others as you would have done unto yourself.

That's all you need to know about racism. Now, you know, that might not be a satisfying answer, but I think it's the most valid one.

We get obsessed by this stuff. You know, as long as you can say in your heart you treat everybody like you want to be treated, you shouldn't even have to address the issue of racism.

What happened before you were born is not your responsibility. You know, this is the whole idea they give you.

We've got some kind of collective guilt because of what happened with the Klan in the 60s and this

Jim Crow, and that has nothing to do with us. Dealing with those problems is completely unbiblical, you know, on that basis, on that basis that we have this collective guilt for what our ancestors did.

It's what we do as individuals that count. And so do unto others and basically say if anybody gets into this stuff, you say, look, this is

Marxism. This is divisive Marxism. You've got the movie. They say this comes out of Ted Allen and Noel Ignatiev at the

Communist Party USA. We shouldn't be involved in this stuff. So if you've got a pastor who's going down this road.

You know, this is this is a very tricky one, because the reason this movie was made is because my friend

Judd Saul, the director, was in a little independent Baptist church in southeast

Iowa, northeast Iowa. And when Black Lives Matter came through town, their new woke pastor got them all to take pizzas out to the protesters.

That's when he decided there was a problem. So you have to sit your pastor down and get him to explain to you why he is following this philosophy rather than the more biblical philosophy.

Why is he assessed by race, which is not mentioned in the Bible, which is not addressed racism is not addressed in the

Bible because it wasn't needed to be because it was assumed that all Christians would treat other people fairly and ethically and honestly.

And so you sit him down and ask him and get into it. Do you understand the Marxist roots of this?

Do you understand the non -biblical roots of this? And the movie will help you clarify that.

Maybe even show him the movie if he's willing to. If he's willing to talk to you, work with him.

If he's not willing to talk with you, if he's so arrogant and he thinks he knows it all, well, it's time to find another church or to find another pastor in the same church if you have the power to do that.

Wokeism is Marxism. It's completely unbiblical. They might be very self -righteous about all of this and they might be, you know, they think they're so right, but they are so, so wrong.

And you've got to be strong about this. Don't tolerate any of it. Either get the pastor out of your church, change the pastor's outlook, or find another church.

Those are the only options. Yeah, and I have to say, like, before I watched the film, just seeing, like, the trailers and hearing, we heard about it on Jan Markell's show.

And I thought, I thought I knew, like, I mean, I'm pretty aware of what's going on.

So I kind of had an idea going into the film of what I thought, like, you know, like, I'm pretty aware that these things are happening.

But that film puts it into such a good context of the big picture. And so everybody who's watching, if you haven't seen it yet, a lot of your questions will be answered when you watch it.

Because it was much more than what I expected it to be. It was very eye -opening. It's very profound, too.

It actually makes you look at Christianity slightly differently. You know, like, the emphasis on love that has come into the church over law.

You know, love is more important than law now, which is really never the emphasis in the past. Are you saying love is more important than law?

Is that what you're saying? No, law comes before love. Right. Well, and that's something, you know, for our group, that's something that we talk about a lot.

Because we, you know, we study creation. We study the Old Testament and Genesis. So we understand that the gospel is not, and this is something that the movie emphasizes, is

God loves you is not the complete gospel. In fact, I think it's too small.

It's too selfish. It's incomplete, is what they say. Well, that's right. It's all about you, isn't it?

You know, the Old Testament is very much about law. You know, of course, the

Ten Commandments. But it's about how you defend your home. It's about how you defend your community, how you grow.

It's political. It's philosophical. It's got a whole bunch of law in it. Jesus didn't come to abolish that.

He came to build on it. He never came to abolish the law. He said specifically that.

But a lot of Christians have the idea as long as God loves you, you're okay. You don't have to obey God's laws just as long as you love

God or you love Jesus. Well, you know, any mother or father knows you love your kids.

But if they don't obey your laws, there's going to be a rupture. There's going to be a problem. And that's the same with us.

So if you want love, keep your agreements. You know, obey the law.

Obey the commandments. And that will build a far stronger relationship than just saying, gee,

I really love you. You know, love based on law is very strong and profound.

Love without law is superficial and meaningless. Before our next question, just to clarify something somebody wrote.

There's a Philip Keller who's an author who's written about Psalm 23. I don't know the relationship.

I saw that question. I don't know if Philip Keller is related to Tim Keller. I just don't know. Sorry. I know

I read his book, but I'm not familiar enough with him. Like I was just saying about Tim Keller and some people.

You know, I wouldn't be able to say that he's never said anything wrong, but I definitely know that. If you read a lot of Tim Keller's books, most

Christians wouldn't find anything wrong with it. You'd have to have a bit of a level of sophistication to find some of the twisted messages there.

But they are there. And his gospel coalition and Mark Devers and that has done a lot of damage.

A lot of damage. They're really bringing forth the LGBTQ movement. They've really got into this critical race theory and all of this kind of stuff.

But they still say they're conservative Christians, you know, but they're not. Philip Devers, Mark Devers promotes actual

Maoist books, books written by known communists and calls it Christianity.

Yeah. Well, so similarly, Eric is asking new age ideas and treatments have been spreading in the church, a blending of Eastern religions and Christianity.

How do we call this out and reach those who believe Taoism and Christianity are compatible?

Well, you know, that's a matter of biblical worldview, isn't it? You know, look, the church has got the church.

And I want to say the church. I mean, American Christianity in general. And that's a very mixed bag, as you know, from people like yourselves all the way through to these liberal gay loving

Christians of San Francisco. You know, they all call themselves Christian. Well, new age ideas are coming in a new age.

Ideas and socialism were always intertwined. You know, the the old the theist office of the 19th century, many of them were socialists, the new ages of the time.

So it's really. A biblical worldview and holding to those standards and expecting your pastor to hold to those standards, expecting your church members to hold to those standards.

Kerry Gordon makes a great point at the end of the movie. He said, you know, we've got this idea that just everybody should go to church, everybody.

Well, he said, if the pastors really preached the gospel like it's written, not this dumbed down, softened down, lovey dovey version, half the people would get up and leave.

They couldn't handle it. It'll be just, he says, they're living in their lukewarm sin.

They couldn't handle it. He said that would be the best thing that could happen. Get rid of the pansies, get rid of the weak, get rid of the liars, get rid of the grifters.

Because two weeks later, God would come back to church. So, yes, you may drive people out of your church.

Yes, your church maybe will become smaller, but it's going to be a lot better church to go to. You know, it's going to be a church of strong Christians, not lukewarm

Christians, not deranged Christians, not new age Christians, not socialist

Christians. You know, it's a matter of holding to certain standards and you've got to be very firm in your own standards and holding people to account and expecting and associating with people that hold those views and not tolerating, you know, not putting up with those who persistently hold other views.

You know, you've got to have dialogue with people. But if somebody wants to come to your church and they want to go to the

Buddhist temple two days a week as well, and then they go to the mosque once a month, well, they're not really committed to what, you know, what you're about.

And maybe they should find somewhere else. Okay. Okay, so, generally asks our churches that don't accept the inerrancy of scripture most vulnerable to this

Marxist infiltration. I can't. Yes, sorry, sorry. She says

I can't speak with my own cousins anymore because they read the Bible trying to explain away sin and judgment and making

God look just loving and accepting and have anything and everything. So that's exactly what

I'm saying, isn't it? You know, they've abandoned sin, they've abandoned law, they've abandoned the Old Testament, they're full of situation ethics.

And so God is love now. That's all God is, love. Well, that's not what it says in the

Bible. God can be pretty darn tough sometimes. God can hold, which

I call loving, actually, it's more loving to hold people to account than to let them drift along and sin. But it's that very strong kind of love.

So look, yeah, look, if you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, and you, that's your rock solid position.

That's your position. And that's the biblical position. If others can't come up to that, you shouldn't be having them in your church or you shouldn't be, you should treat them in a different way.

You know, this is about fortifying the remnant right now. This is about, we're living in a time of crisis, which is probably going to get much, much worse yet.

And so this is about fortifying, you know, ridding the church of the lukewarm, separating the weak from the chaff.

So, you know, if people want to drift off and think those kind of things, and you can't reason with them, well, just find people you can reason with.

Well, so then along the same line, Tony asks, we moved to a new state and are struggling to find a church where they are aware of this movement to Marxism.

What would be a good approach to finding a healthy church? Yeah, well, we're actually going to have a website where we're healthy church, we're going to have a map of every state and every zip code we're going to put.

This is a good church, that's a good church, whatever. Look, you might have to do some shopping, but you have to look online, find networks like yourself.

You know, what churches do people in your network feel comfortable with or by reputation?

Or, you know, because if you're part of this network, you don't want anything that's really a softer message, do you?

And so you're going to, you might be finding a little home church somewhere. You're going to, I would say, look small, you know, find a home church that meets in somebody's house or in the back of a machine shop or whatever.

Like I was out in California not long ago, and they had a little church every Sunday, outdoors in an olive garden, about 25 people.

I think that's where you're more likely to find what you're looking for than going to the local mega church or whatever.

I think we may have gone to that church when the COVID happened. We all were meeting in La Mesa in a park.

Yeah, well, it probably was right too because it was around that area. Yeah. Yeah, so it may well be, but that's the thing.

Church shopping is a bit difficult these days, but smaller is usually better. That was something

I was going to ask you personally was because I know that on the enemieswithinthechurch .com

website, there is a page for Wokepedia where they're like, there's a lot of articles that are not like calling out.

There's a whole article about Tim Keller and Andy Stanley and Rick Warren and some of the other churches and seminaries and things.

So I've been wondering, I know that there's a separate page about ways to rebuild

America, but I've been wondering if they would make a page like that where like, here's some good churches that we've found that you can choose from.

Well, that's the intention. That was what they were talking about a while back. I don't know how far they've gone with that, but the plan was every state, it's a map of every state, every zip code and identifying each zip code where the sound churches are to make it easy for people, you know, instead of doing a lot of trial and error.

But, you know, you might find that your best experience comes from a little gathering of 10 people who meet with a really, really good pastor.

It really comes down to the pastor most of the time, doesn't it? It's not even not the denomination.

The pastor is really the main thing to look at. Have a talk to your pastor.

Do you believe in biblical inerrancy? What do you believe in? You're going to have certain non -negotiables.

You go to them and say, well, these are my non -negotiables. How do you stand on each of those issues? It'll take you about 10 minutes and you'll either decide to stay or more likely you'll move on to somewhere else.

And I know, you know, like I said, we've heard you before on Jan Markell and we heard it.

We heard Kerry Gordon on there. And of course, Jack Hibbs has been on there. We heard him say one time that even if you can't like in a case like this, if you move somewhere and you're having a hard time finding a church to attend in person that is strong like that, you can get fed online, but then still go to your local church and be a missionary to that church and start trying to work your way.

Well, that's a good point. Maintain your culture, maintain your connection, but try and move the new church.

Well, that's another option, of course. And that depends totally on you and what you're willing to do.

But as I say, don't go to a church you don't believe in just because it's the only church in the area.

Because that's, as I say, don't listen to this on a

Thursday night and go to a hippie church or a socialist church on a Sunday. It defeats the whole purpose, really, doesn't it?

Well, so our next question comes from Bob and he's asking, can the Marxist agenda continue or will it be stopped in its track?

I guess I would want to phrase it the other way. Do we have a hope to stop it in its tracks in the event of a currency collapse and a forced return to a hard monetary system?

Yeah, well, look, the world is clearly coming into crisis.

Communism's on the march. We've got economic meltdowns. Everything is all coming together at once.

Now, this is a time when you fortify the remnant. So it's really not about trying to save every person and whatever.

It's saving those around you, building networks around you, people you can rely on, building your church networks, people who can supply you with food, all of this kind of thing.

You know, Marxism is well entrenched now. We're going to stop it from the local level up.

And when I travel around the country, I'm seeing all these little churches, I'm seeing all these grassroots conservative groups rise up and fight back.

And that's where it's going to come from, these local groups who strengthen their own communities, take over their school boards, fortify their church and establish real communities in local areas.

We do enough of that, communism will be stopped. It's kind of interesting, like,

I don't want to give, I mean, we came here to talk about the film and we want to talk about it, but without like giving too much away, because we really want people to watch it themselves.

But, you know, because we are a creation group and most of us are familiar with Ken Ham and how he talks about answers.

He's pretty good for an Australian. He's pretty good for an Australian, isn't he? And, well, we like Ray Comfort too.

Yes, well, look, I used to, when I was a high school kid, I'd go into the square in Christchurch and Ray Comfort would be preaching about 10 feet away from me.

And I saw him many times. And then he disappeared. And it was only years later,

I thought, oh, he's in America now. He's, you know, he's well known here. But I remember him when he was a newly converted hippie surfer, you know, so it's interesting.

Well, so going back to that, you know, Ken talks a lot about how a lot of the compromise in our churches today is because pastors and Christian leaders have abandoned

Genesis, have abandoned the Old Testament, have abandoned creation. And so we know that that's true, but in this film and in your film that came before it, you guys really lay out how this attack that America is in, is under, is from outside sources that have learned how to infiltrate.

And I think that that's really interesting. And I have kind of a question that's outside the scope of the church talk, but I'm wondering, and you know, we've had

Alex Newman on before, and I know that you know him. About recently, a former

KGB agent who had defected, I believe, and he talked about how the

Russians are playing this long game. And I wanted to ask you, do you think that when the wall came down, that that was really the end of the

Cold War? Or was that part of their plan to get us to kind of, you know, be like,

Oh, a little bit? Well, what does C .S. Lewis say? He said the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is to convince people he doesn't exist.

Well, that's the greatest trick the communists ever pulled. You know, the collapse of the

Berlin Wall, the collapse of communism was a strategic retreat. You know,

Reagan, they knew if they didn't do something, Reagan would collapse them. So they deliberately pulled back, they kept people in power, positions of power in all these countries, and they consolidated, and they got lots of Western capital, lots of Western money.

You see that particularly in China, but in Russia too. And they built themselves up to the point that they can now openly fly the flag again, like China's doing, and go back on the march.

For 15 years, Vladimir Putin and the KGB have been spreading this message to American Christians and conservatives, that he's one of us, that he's going to save us from the

New World Order and the sorrows and the LGBT agenda. You know,

Putin, he noted a conference in 2017 in Sochi, Russia, I've got it on video, of 30 ,000 young communists from all over the world to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the

Bolshevik Revolution, and told them the future is ours, the future is yours, go for it.

What we're seeing now is Russia and China working together to change the world balance of power.

And Ukraine's the first step. They're trying to take down the US dollar. Biden, their agent, just gave them

Afghanistan. Taiwan's under threat. The Middle East is under threat. This is what happens when you go from a strong leader to a weak leader.

The communists take advantage of that. So they're showing their flag much more than they have in the past.

But yes, I believe the collapse of communism was a strategic retreat, rather than a real defeat.

But we treated it as a real defeat and stopped doing anything about it.

Now, communism is all through our society, it's in our colleges, it's in our churches, it's in our educational things, it's in Hollywood.

The analogy I have is like cancer. Say if you have a tumor in your body, and you cut 90 % of it out, but you leave 10 % in, then you stop all treatment for 30 years, what's your body going to look like?

And that's where we are today. And so that goes along, Rob is asking a question, and I think it's kind of been answered, but in the same venue, like it's not just like in your first film, you talked about how it's in our politicians are aligning themselves with enemies of America.

But then we see from that time until this new film, the enemies within the church, how they hit public schools, public universities,

Catholicism, and now they're coming after the moral majority and the

Christian denominations. You're all Christian nationalists now.

That's a bad thing. It's like almost being a Nazi. So any real

Bible believing Christian is now is an enemy of the state. That's what they're positioning it.

I'm raising my hand and admitting it. So Rob is asking, what about the

Boy Scouts? Because they used to be a solid organization a century ago. But in the last two decades, scouting has gone downhill.

Has there been any analysis of who has brought them? Well, the name is a bit sexist, you know, it's a bit exclusionary, isn't it?

Boy Scouts? Well, you know, look, I've read articles from the 1930s where the Communist Party was attacking the

Boy Scouts back then, because the Boy Scouts was a patriotic organization that taught young men masculine virtues and self -reliance and teamwork.

It was a good setup for the military or police for a lot of young men. It was a really, really positive organization.

So the left had to destroy it. And they destroyed it through the LGBTQ agenda.

And the first gay rights activist in America was the Communist Party member

Harry Hay, who was recruited into the Communist Party by Will Gere, his homosexual lover and fellow communist, who you all know as Grandpa Walton on the

Waltons. So, yeah, the

Boy Scouts was absolutely deliberately targeted. It's Christian, it's masculine, it's semi -military, all the things communists hate.

So they had to destroy it. And they haven't completely destroyed it, but pretty much have. The country is the weaker for it.

And one of the things on that topic that's interesting in the film that was pointed out in the film is how our enemies have gotten our

Democrats and our liberals, you know, progressives to applaud feminism, you know, to applaud weak masculinity, to applaud, you know,

God loves you and don't forget and don't worry about the laws, you know, to applaud all of these things that they themselves, you know, these countries are not embracing.

Like, they understand that that's what's going to bring us down so that in their own countries, you know, the things that are getting promoted here and endorsed and just the sick perversion of it all is outlawed in our enemies' countries.

Well, that's right. They promote it here, but they ban it there because here they're trying to bring us to our knees.

There they're trying to get ready for war, build their country up. You know, in China now they criticize girly men, but they promote them here because they want a strong army.

They don't want homosexuals in their army. They don't want girly men in their army. They want soldiers who can carry stuff around for 50 miles and charge tanks and whatever.

They want tough, brave men. You know, they don't allow the homosexual agenda over there.

They don't allow the soft stuff. You don't get welfare in China. You don't get welfare in Russia.

You work for your darn living. So even though they are communists, they're a lot tougher on their people than we are.

Their school systems are way, way more rigorous than ours because they want scientists and technicians and military officers and military engineers who can add things up and make things work and build plane engines and guns and bombs and rockets.

Here they're promoting basket weaving and gender studies and all this because they'll be our future soldiers and, you know, our future military people.

You know, we're putting our Marines in high heels and they're getting ready for World War III.

You know, they're getting ready for World War III and our troops are getting ready for Mascara. Wouldn't you say that that's not an accident?

Part of the agenda, though, just like putting Alzheimer's 1 into the

Oval Office and then, you know, creating the, you know, decimating the military.

It's all a part of their plan. Absolutely, it is. This is deeply planned.

The deep state is Russian, essentially, and Chinese. And their plan is, you know,

Trump was a problem because if Trump had got another four more years, he was working with Japan, he was working with Australia and India to take down the

Communist Party of China. And that would have been a massive boon to the world. You know, all that energy and entrepreneurship serving good rather than evil.

So they released the COVID to bring them down. They unleashed Black Lives Matter to bring them down.

They stole the election. They got their agent Joe Biden into power.

And while he's in power, they're going on the march. We wouldn't have had Ukraine under Trump.

We wouldn't have had Taiwan under Trump. We wouldn't have had Afghanistan under Trump. They deliberately brought him down.

They put their man, their weak man, in the White House and are taking full advantage of that.

Absolutely, it's an agenda. Well, and then one last part, and we'll start wrapping it up here is, you know, we've talked about China and Russia, because they are our active enemies that we know are working against us.

But then there's North Korea, whether they're working against us or just crazy, but they're definitely emboldened by all of this too.

Yeah, and Iran. And Nicaragua, you know, the

Russians have planes in Nicaragua, they can carry nuclear weapons to this country in a couple of hours.

You know, the open borders movement is a big part of this. You know, Mexico now has a communist president.

So he's not going to close those borders, because his goal is to bring this country down and illegal immigration is a huge part of that.

Yeah. So wherever you look, we're under attack. And it all comes back, all comes down to, you know, this is a battle between good and evil.

And it's not an evil so strong, as we haven't got enough really good people.

Yeah. Well, and that was my point in bringing up North Korea was one of the things that Kerry Gordon talks about in the film is how

Christians have been slaughtered. And, you know, if you own a Bible, you know, and people are giving their lives for that.

But here in America, we're so willing to just give up all of our convictions and not, you know, not be bothered to be uncomfortable.

Well, that's right. You know, they think the tribulation or persecution is going to be when you have to go down from three cars to two.

You only take one holiday in the Caribbean a year instead of two. You know, look,

Christianity was obliterated, obliterated in Iraq, because we had a pro communist president at the time,

Barack Obama. And ISIS took advantage of that and wiped out Christianity in the whole country.

Now, I would say this, the blood of those Iraqi Christians is on the head of American Christians who allowed

Barack Obama to come to power. They were either so undiscerning, or so apathetic, or in some cases, they stupidly voted for him, that he brought a situation where hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered.

But I'll bet you most of these Christians make no association at all with that. Yeah. But it's like the

German Christians before World War Two. There was only one group in Germany that could have stopped

Hitler's rise to power. And that was the German Christians. But they didn't. They put swastikas in their churches.

They became good Nazi Christians. And that led to World War Two. And real young American Christians had to leave their farms in Iowa and Pennsylvania and put on uniforms and pick up guns and charge

German machine guns on the beaches of Normandy to fix the mess left to us by the

German Christians who couldn't be bothered. So we're in a similar situation today. We're on the verge of major breakdown.

It all comes down to the state of the American church. That's what it comes down to.

Yeah. Yeah, that's our last defense. So, well, we are so grateful that you came.

And it's nice to leave this on a note where we can remind people that the people that are here in Zoom with us are people who are watching along on Facebook and then the people who will be watching this on our channels in the times to come.

But, you know, we want to be mindful that our faith and our

Christianity and the liberties that we still have are important and that we need to stand up for them. So if you haven't seen the film yet, make sure that you go to enemieswithinthechurch .com.

You can buy the film. You can buy it on DVD and get it in the mail. You can also buy merchandise like a woke shirt, t -shirt and other merchandise.

You can also buy the film in a digital copy and watch it online. So we want to make sure that as many people as can, you know, buy it.

Christmas isn't too far off. Buy it as gifts for your pastors. And, you know, we really want to encourage people to get on board with this.

Well, thank you. We made it because it's got an important message. You can even buy it in Spanish and Portuguese now,

I believe, and other languages soon. But I really thank you for that message because we made it because we think it's necessary and we are hoping it's going to have a big impact.

And that'll be because of voices like yourself who amplify the message around in your circles.

So thank you for that. And then Trevor, we thank you for your time. And do you want to tell people again how they can find you and follow you?

Sure. Sure. I have a website, TrevorLoudon .com, just L -O -U -D -O -N is my name,

TrevorLoudon .com. But don't Google it. Put it in the search bar at the top of the page because apparently

Google has forgotten my IP address. Can you imagine that? Well, I found it today through Google, but.

Okay. Okay. Well, maybe it's just my computer that can't. I don't know. But anyway, I'm glad you could.

Well, and then people can find us again. We're Creation Fellowship Santee and you can email us at creationfellowshipsantee at gmail .com.

Santee is S -A -N -T -E -E. You can also find links for most of our past presentations by going to tinyurl .com

forward slash C -F Santee. And then we also want to make mention too of our partner ministry throughoutallagesministries .com

and you can check them out also. And so we're going to go ahead and turn off the live stream and the recording for now.

And then Trevor, if you'd like to stay back in case anybody wants to ask you a couple of questions directly in Zoom, that would be great.