Attitudes Toward Leadership And Hebrews 13 (Part 2)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

I always say that. My name is Mike Abendroth. And then somehow I touch this round disc that's in front of my, in front of my microphone.

I'm trying to reconnect. How can you not have a Facebook live with this kind of internet at the church? Who knows what?

Anyway, if you'd like to go to Israel with us, it's still on, the Israel trip, February, I think 23rd, 24th of next year, 2021.

I've got about a dozen spots still available. Almost finished with the pricing, but because of COVID -19, it's been difficult to find out that price.

But if you want some information, info at NoCompromiseRadio .com. We'd love to have you go.

I think Pat maybe has 15 people, Pat Abendroth at Omaha Bible Church. I think we've got about 14.

There's no possible way we can have fewer people than Omaha Bible Church, because we have

Bethlehem Bible Church and No Compromise Radio, and they just have Omaha Bible Church.

I mean, come on. We will meet in Newark and fly to Tel Aviv nonstop on United Airlines.

And some are going to meet me there in Tel Aviv. Some I think from London will meet me there and the travel agent will help you with all that.

Now, today I'd like to talk a little bit about submission. That's a good way to sell a podcast.

Aren't you glad you're tuning in to learn about submission? Isn't that at the top of your list? Well, if you look at the world, they don't want to submit.

You look at the world, everything they're doing, at least what we see, is centered around rebellion, centered around people doing what's right in their own eyes.

Since God has ordained government, the home, and the church, guess what's being attacked?

The government, the church, and the home. It doesn't take you very long to see that in society.

Pretty much every dad on TV, some sitcom, some doofus guy, he can't run the family and he's advocated his leadership.

Every time you see a show about, I don't know, some Jason Bourne type of show or something, the ladies are in charge.

It's just been interesting to watch this whole government issue in Seattle. And so today

I want to talk about not government submission to government, not submitting to your bosses, not submitting to wives or husbands, but what about submitting to church leaders?

Here's the problem. Hebrews 13, 17 does say, in fact, obey your leaders and submit to them for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will have to give an account.

Let them do this with joy and not with groaning for that would be of no advantage to you. Here's what

I'm going to do today. I want to teach you what that verse says, but I also want you, viewer and listener, to recognize that if a heavy handed, authoritative leader wants to use that as a stick to get you to obey and tries to use their personality, their own wisdom, their own smarts, their own desires to control you,

I want you to be able to, because of the show, recognize that's not true. And when

I was younger, I used to like to watch different detective shows with my father and I think we watched

Kojak with Tully Subalas. Remember the Lollipop and Who Loves Your Baby? We watched Beretta with Robert Blake.

We watched McLeod with, I don't know who's in McLeod, and we also watched

Columbo. Peter Falk was Columbo and he'd always make these observations and then he would come to a line of questioning that was inescapable at the end, but the way he did it, he would almost walk out the door before he shut it, he'd say what?

Just one more thing. And then the whole thing would unravel. So I'm going to make some observations about Hebrews 13, 17 that I think will help.

That's right. Just one more question said, Steve, Steven Joseph, I hope you're doing well.

I think you're in Florida now, aren't you? Anyway, the first thing I want you to realize, first observation,

Columbo -like observation, this verse is given to the entire congregation.

It's not found in the pastoral epistles. What? What do you mean by that? When Hebrews, the preacher of Hebrews is preaching, he says this to the entire congregation.

And here's the way you could frame this. In Ephesians five, it says, wives submit to your husbands.

That's given to the wives. If you're a husband and you use

Ephesians five as a crudgel, as a mace, as a stick, as a sword, as a weapon to get your wife to submit to you, you are so, you are so wrong.

I hope she calls you on it. I've been married for 31 years. I don't think I've ever said to Kim, you submit to me, you obey me.

Of course she has to submit to me, but it's God through Paul telling her that. It's the writer, it's the preacher telling the people.

This is not found in the pastoral epistles where it says, hey, if you're going to be a good elder, make sure you get people to obey you all the time.

I just want you to feel the context, to sense the context, to see literally, of course, no feelings or subjective realities or experiences, but I just want you to kind of get that.

With Kim, if I have an idea, she has the opposite idea, I'll let her try to talk me out of my idea.

And lots of times she's right. Other times I'll talk her into my idea and she'll say, you know what, that is the right decision.

And then other times I have a decision to make and I have a certain view, she has another view and we can never come to a conclusion.

We never can come to an agreement. So I have to say, you know what, I'm going to go with what I think needs to be done.

Submission is the right kind of attitude and you go along with it. And then when the Lord disciplines me, you can duck.

But I'm just going to have to stand my ground and we need to stay together. We don't want to have your view, my view, and we can't have a mutual agreement.

So we have to break up and split up or divorce. Therefore, I need to make the decision.

Okay, that's fine. That kind of conversation I hope happens. But for me to say to Kim, you submit to me.

Same thing with leaders in a local church. If leaders like to say this to you, oh, maybe you're rebellious, maybe you're anti -authority, maybe you say, you know what,

I don't care what you think, I'll do what I want. I'm a Christian. I have the Holy Spirit like you do.

I'm justified like you are. I'm redeemed like you are. Propitiation has been made on my behalf like you are.

And we are equal in Christ, a priesthood of all believers, and don't tell me what to do. Well, I could probably frame it by helping that person, but I just want you to realize this is given to the congregation and it's not used as some tool to whack people with.

Observation Columbo -like number two is this. You are told to obey your local church leaders, plural.

Well, we'll see what the text says. Obey your leaders and submit to them. You're not to submit to an outside source.

You're not to submit to a celebrity pastor and what he says. People email me, they ask me questions on No Compromise Radio, and I'm not in charge.

I can say, this is what I think you should do, is go talk to your pastor and go do this, that, and the other, and your elders, but you're not under my authority.

I have no reach. I can give you advice, but that's about it. Notice the text says leaders.

It says obey your leaders. It doesn't say leader. It doesn't say one single solitary pope -like pastor figure.

Why does it say leaders? Well, for lots of reasons. One is there should be a plurality of leaders.

I'm not the end all. I have blind spots. Therefore, here at the church now, I think we've had up to seven elders maybe.

We have four elders now. The last two elders have moved. Pastor Dave and Pastor Harry are now ministering elsewhere.

And so, there are four of us, and the people here at Bethlehem Bible Church should submit and obey their leaders, but not somehow their leader, and not the

Gospel Coalition's leader, not your favorite celebrity pastor leader. I've had people here at the church write grace to you to complain about me, and it's true, but I have my spies at grace to you, so they tell me about the letters.

And see, listening to me at 1 .5 speed, I do have coffee, by the way, but this is awful.

This is some kind of Starbucks mocha thing. I don't do flavors.

Flavors, it's weird. I could talk a little bit faster, then maybe it'd be normal.

Same thing when I listen to podcasts. I listen to Reform Forum, or Abounding Grace, or Presbycast, or something.

I'm thinking, when I actually talk to them, they're talking way too slowly.

Additionally, when you say, obey your leaders, this doesn't prove my point, but it could add some fuel to my fire.

This is not congregationalism. Obey what the congregation says. No, no, there are leaders, and these leaders you are to submit to and obey.

This is difficult, again, like I said, in social media, where you have people, and they're on social media like I am, and you think, now

I'm in charge, or I handle the word properly, or something like that. You want to be very careful.

You're God -ordained leaders in a local church, and if you're not in a local church, well, you need to be in a local church.

Observation number three, even though the morning coffee. Number three, did you notice that God's word transcends culture and modern thoughts about authority and leadership?

Okay, now think about this for a second. What does the culture say? We will have no man reign over us.

What does the culture say? Now, this is insightful, I think, and I didn't come up with it, but I'm happy to talk about it.

We live in a post -modern world, post -Christian world. There's no real truth. Your truth is your truth.

My truth is my truth. I have my truth. You have your truth, and since there's not really any true truth, you think

I'm going to submit to your truth? You think I'm going to submit to your true truth? You think you're going to make me submit when

I have my truth and you have your truth? See how that works, truth? Truth. Hmm.

That is the worst. I think that is the worst that I've ever had. I never want that again.

Actually, if I go to Starbucks now, because there's no other shop around or something, why are all the

Starbucks, at least here in central Massachusetts, dirty? They're not clean. If the idea is to create, this is all pre -COVID stuff, of course, the idea is to create a place that's like home where you want to go hang out and relax and meet people, and it's kind of decorated in a cool way, and it's got kind of the

Starbucks music going on. I don't want to be in dirt. I don't want to be in dirty places.

This is awful. We live in a society that essentially says, don't tread on me.

You just look at the news. It is anti -authority to the core. We will not have anybody reign over us.

We are defiant and our individual rights must transcend and override everybody else's rights.

That's the culture, but that's not the Bible culture. Children are to submit to their parents, wives to their husbands, congregants to their leaders, everyone to the government, you to your bosses.

Switch to Mountain Dew. You know what I'm switching to? This is the new, right here,

Fair Life Nutrition Plan, 30 grams of protein. I think they said since I turned 60, if I drink this more regularly, it's in place of Think about Joseph and the brothers and that whole thing back in Genesis.

Remember, he had the dream, and it says the text that he was hated all the more because of this dream.

I don't know if I would have told this dream to my brothers or brother. Hear this dream that I've dreamed. Behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and behold, my sheaf arose and stood upright.

And behold, your sheaves gathered around it and bowed down to my sheaf. His brother said to him,

Are you trying to reign over us? Or are you indeed to rule over us?

So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words. That's the idea.

You don't tell me what to do. You cannot do that. That's like the unpardonable sin in society today.

Don't tell me what to do. Jesus with his own parable in Luke 19 with a 10 minus.

The citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him saying, We do not want this man to reign over us.

A culture that is rebellious, that does what's right in its own eyes, fueled by postmodernism, says we're not going to submit.

Yet the Bible teaches that you are to obey your leaders and to submit to them.

Number four, fourth observation. We having fun so far? We having fun, Fosar? While I cannot talk so fast,

I can sure conflate the words. What's that called when you do that? When you take the consonant of one word and put it on the other and you switch it because you're tired.

There has to be something, some kind of something. Observation number four.

I'm just using a little outline here, going through Hebrews 13, 17. I want to just make sure you get this.

A, you understand the Bible. B, you don't get whacked by people.

Every breath I take, I'll be watching you. Who said that? Didn't Sting write that?

Isn't that a police song? You know what that's about, really? Think, Oh, it's a love song. Every breath you take and I'm watching you.

I guess you can make it whatever you want it to be, right? That's good at postmodern culture. But you know, it's about government control and government watching in an

Orwellian 1984 kind of thing. That's what Sting said. If you want to look at authorial intent, ask the writer of the song.

It's crazy. So I don't want leaders to try to run your lives using this verse and overstepping their bounds of authority.

Overstepping the bounds. Jim said it's like a stalker. Of course, you're supposed to obey and submit.

But let's see in what context. And what are you supposed to obey?

Are you supposed to obey me? Are you supposed to obey me when I don't tell you what the

Bible says? We'll find out. Observation four. Do you notice that this verse isn't very hard to understand?

Yeah, it's kind of a throwaway one. But it's not that hard to understand. Obey your leaders and submit to them.

Obey is an imperative. And it means somebody's in charge. They tell you what to do.

You do it, right? That's what obey is. Submission, it means to yield or to give in.

And it's more of an attitude. One's kind of external obedience and the other's internal. It's kind of like your kid, you know, is cleaning the room, but they're not cleaning the room in their heart.

This is both. This is concerning attitude. And, of course, when you think about submission, it does not mean inferiority.

The Lord Jesus on earth submitted to sinful government. The Lord Jesus on earth submitted to a less than perfect stepfather.

A sinful man, righteous, of course, and wonderful. I'm sure we'll see him in heaven. But he wasn't perfect.

He, Jesus, submitted to Joseph. And also, Jesus submitted to his heavenly

Father. Right? Now, there's nothing wrong with submission. It has nothing to do with inferiority.

Whether that's the incarnation, the Father has prepared a body for Jesus, Psalm 40,

Hebrews chapter 10. All of his life of humility and suffering with pinnacles in things like the

Garden of Gethsemane and, of course, Calvary itself. We see the Lord Jesus submitting.

Submission is just part of life. That's the way God has created us. His created order deals with submission all the time.

And to not find submission in a local church, that'd be crazy. We're going to get to that.

Mr. Reddy, my friend, is saying things. You're ahead of me.

That's a later observation. Hey, this is my show. You guys are trying to hijack this. Submission is

I yield to somebody even though I disagree. I have something else that I believe.

But since they're in authority over me, I will submit. It's a present tense submission in both.

The word submit is present tense and obey is also present. So, this is just a lifestyle.

This is, you know what, we'll submit the whole year except for the business meeting. I have to tell you, when

I first got here to Bethlehem Bible Church, it's New England. Congregational rule, Robert's Rules of Order, all these other kind of things that swirl around this territory, these

New England states. Can you name the New England states? And what would happen to seemingly kind people, mild -mannered people, humble people, submissive people, demure people?

When they got to the annual meeting, I think they thought all stops are gone.

We now get to get up and say whatever we want. And we don't care if it's slander, gossip, speaking down on people, to use the language of some of the epistles.

It was just awful. I'm like, what is going on? And then the next day, everybody tries to act happy.

Crazy. We wanted to yield to the authority of the leaders,

God -given authority. It's super simple. Obey means obey in the Greek. Submit means submit in the

Greek. Next observation. Oh, side note before I forget. Obey and submit.

Let me just tell you one area where I think it might be super hard for you to obey and submit.

If you know someone and they're under church discipline, right, and it goes to the steps in steps 1, 2, 3, and 4, you say, well, you know what?

I know they're excommunicated. I know the church is doing this out of love for the

Lord and obedience to His word, Matthew 18, but also for the person's good, for the body's good. But you know what?

They say we're supposed to treat them like an unbeliever, but I'm not. That's interesting.

I don't think you, congregant, know all the details behind the scenes. And, of course,

I'm not saying the leaders are always perfect. Obviously, the leaders aren't perfect. Remember Hebrews 13, 7, when you're supposed to remember your leaders and considering the outcome of their life, imitate their faith, remember the

Lord Jesus. He, the Lord Jesus, is the same yesterday, today, and forever. There is a leader who doesn't sin.

There is a leader that doesn't die. That's the Lord Jesus. But still, this is a God -ordained position.

It's Jesus' church. He wants elders, overseers, bishops—they're all the same thing—to oversee the church, to rule the church, to manage the church.

See, I'm trying to talk really fast now so people can see that it's like 1 .5 speed. But sometimes you go, you know what,

I disagree with the whole church discipline thing. Maybe you don't have the stomach for church discipline. Maybe you're too tied to the person by blood or by relative or by friendship or something else.

That would be good for you to think through. If the church is doing church discipline, but you think it's wrong, what do you end up doing?

Of course, you'd go talk to the leadership and all that. All right, number five, fifth observation. Did you remember that this verse needs to be seen along with other

Bibles? Other Bibles? Other Bible verses that speak of submission.

All right, here's what I meant by that. I'm going to change this. See, this was going to be my sermon on Sunday, but I practice on you because you get what you pay for.

It just sounds so dumb. I regularly say it about me.

That's so stupid. Man, that is just a stupid thing to do. Come on, Mike, right? You preach to yourself.

And because of the whole COVID thing, I had Maddie and Gracie and even Luke for a couple weeks home and Haley's at home.

I think I heard Maddie or Luke or somebody say that about themselves. That's so stupid.

Speaking of stupid, seriously, I'm not going to be able to drink that.

I don't like to waste. Maybe it's the depression, hangover stuff with my parents, grandparents. I can't do it.

Okay, what's my point? I'll rephrase it. Is there a time when you don't obey and submit? Okay, that's right.

That's what Ajay was going to talk about. Remember with Peter and Acts chapter 4?

You know what? When they tell you to do something that's wrong, then of course you don't do that.

Right? You can't obey your leaders and honor the

Lord by disobeying scripture. That's not going to work. And I think what happens with the authority that people have is

I can tell you, here's what the Bible says. Right? If you come in for counseling, let's say, and even from the pulpit, this is what the

Bible says. You have to do it. Here's the lawgiver. He saved you. He's redeemed you. You don't have to keep this law in order to be saved or to stay saved.

But because you're saved, guilt grates gratitude. Here's who God is. Don't fall into Satan's trap and separate the law from the lawgiver.

This loving Heavenly Father wants your best, and here's what you should do. Here's what you must do. Well, I have that authority.

And then you'll hear me say things like, well, I don't have a Bible verse for this, but I'm 60. I've been a

Christian for quite a while, and I think you should do this. If I were you, I would do this.

If you were my son, I would tell you to do this. I'm trying as the leader to say, you know what?

It is clear you ought to flee fornication. It is clear that you need to run from pornography.

It is clear that adultery is sinful, and you have to stop right now. Okay? I have that authority because it's

God's word. I have a delegated authority. I have an authority that doesn't come from myself. Therefore, when

I don't have something that's a Bible verse and it's just wisdom, I tell you that it is. So I think that's a sign of a maturing leader.

I don't think I always did that, but I do it now for certain. Well, anyway, my name is Mike Ebendroth.

24 and a half minutes goes by fast. It goes by faster if it's 1 .5 speed. You can always write me, Mike at Info.

Mike at Info. I'll never get it. Info at NoCompromiseRadio .com.

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