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Christian and Mike discuss Luther, the Reformation and training men for gospel ministry. Christian is a missionary and dean of the European Bible Training Centre (EBTC).
Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.
Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.
Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and on Mondays we like to have a sermon, one of my sermons that I�ve preached at Bethlehem Bible Church. Tuesdays I talk with Pastor Steve, Tuesday guy.
Thursdays, it�s, you know, something positive. We teach, �What is forgiveness Friday is Woodshed Friday. We take people to the woodshed for some of their wrong thoughts. But on Wednesdays, Wednesday�s interview, Wednesday, and so I have a guest who�s a repeat guest.
Last time he said some things, we have to kind of correct them this time, I think, maybe. Christian Andreessen, welcome back to No Compromise Radio. Great to be here. Okay, Christian, tell us about yourself.
How are we related to one another? How do we work together? How can we still be friends?
Well, actually, we studied together, at least we are at the same school, a master�s seminary. I instead, staying in the States, I moved to Germany in 1997, and there we started a training center in 2001, and today we have a couple of, or three training centers actually in Cologne, Zurich, and Berlin.
So that�s how we know each other, and you have been a guest speaker several times and a guide for some of our great tours in Greece.
Christian, I will never forget, as long as I live, I�m over with you and some of your men at the European Bible Training Center, and we went to Wittenberg, to Luther�s house, and something happened. I don�t know if you weren�t feeling well or you got an emergency phone call, but you were leading the tour of about 15 men, and then I was in the tour.
I�m learning. I think I�ve been to Wittenberg one other time, and then you looked at me and said, �Mike, I have this emergency. You need to lead the tour. And then you walked off.
Yes, but I assumed being so well-equipped in church history, you would be very good in doing it, and you did a great job.
I just acted like I knew what I was saying, and I spoke English really fast, so then none of the Germans would understand.
Yeah, it went well. I know they enjoyed your humor, so it was good.
Let�s talk a little bit about Wittenberg for a second, and you like to take folks there. What can our listeners receive from a historical study of Luther? So they get Roland Banton�s book, Here I Stand, The Life of Martin Luther.
Why is it important to study history as a Christian?
Well, at first we learn a lot from Luther himself, how he related to Scripture, to God, and how he related to Christ. It was in a unique time where he was willing to sacrifice or give his life for the truth of the gospel, and just his attitude towards that is amazing to study that and to understand it and staying at the footsteps of what he has done.
And being there reminds us how important that time of history was for even us today, and we can learn a lot just from his attitude as man. We should be also as zealous for the truth and as not afraid to proclaim it in a time where it might be difficult, but he was willing really to die every day for it.
Christian, when we go to Wittenberg, you take me to this place where a man has all these old Bibles, these Luther Bibles, 1522, and you get to hold these million-euro Bibles and manuscripts. But as far as I know, the procurator, the man who's in charge of it, he's not even a Christian man.
No, he's not.
He is a linguist, and he speaks many languages, but he loves just books and old books. And that's basically what it's there, and I ask him, you know, who is really interested in those books besides us when we are there?
He said, well, hardly anybody comes there to read the books, anybody. And the students would go somewhere else to the liberal theologians or the, you know, all the things which were written in the last hundred years, but they don't go back to the route of where we should go back.
Christian, you're leading the European Bible Training Center associated with TMAI and John MacArthur, and you know the theology there very well, and John's been over to preach for you. What do you want the American listeners today on No Compromise Radio to know about Germany, Berlin, the training centers, why it's so important?
What don't we know about that we need to know about so we can pray for and encourage?
Well, a lot of people coming to Germany think about the Reformation that is 500, 497 years back. The reality is where we are right now, it's the most atheistic place in the world. A study was done in the Chicago University which shows that over 50 of the people in East Germany, exactly where we are and where the Reformation started, are atheist and don't believe in any God.
And so it's so strong that people don't even know about God. We have to explain who Moses is. We have to explain what Noah's Ark is. People don't even know that. They have no knowledge of the Bible at all.
And you would think that in a country like Germany, that would be just common knowledge. It's not anymore. And so, yes, please pray that our testimony as the EBTC and the churches will have a clear, clear testimony of the gospel, and we live it, and we proclaim it, and we are fearless in spite of the opposition we face.
Christian, I say this with all sincerity, you know, the Lord really has raised you up for a time like this and put you there because you're such a good organizer and leader, and you understand biblical theology and Christ-centered worship.
Tell me your strategy for even bringing over men like Mark Dever and James White and MacArthur to teach some of these classes, and, you know, there's lots of people who think, well, you know, we don't want anything from America, but you realize the Lord has blessed several men in America, and you bring them over.
Tell us your strategy for incorporating these guys into your training.
Well, they stand for clear gospel. They stand for expository preaching and love for the truth, a love for what is important and, you know, morally and ethically and spiritually, everything that we would like to see again happening in Germany.
Now we invite them so that they can basically light the fire and encourage the believers there to go further, to get back to the Scripture, to exposit it, to study it on their own, to be self-engaged in the Word of God.
And then I hope out of this we train other men and also women who will teach their children rightly and men who will preach the Word correctly in Germany. So in the long run, we might not want to have a lot of Americans come over, but we hope that the Germans could even go also beyond their borders again, but that is not the case right now.
Christian, when I think of our testimonies, I was an unbeliever and, of course, so were you. I think about a guy who's not a Christian. He's down at the beach in Portugal selling crepes, run out by the Portuguese mafia.
How did the Lord save you out of all that? Tell us your testimony.
Well, that's true what you're saying there. It's a good reminder to me.
I think your hair was longer then, wasn't it?
I had a, yes, I had pretty long hair to my shoulders. Anyway, coming, yeah, I was saved actually in the United States. I wanted to escape my past to some degree. I couldn't handle my life myself. Went to visit some relatives, far relatives.
They were Christians. That testimony was so strong and so appealing to me. And then we went to the Word of God. They gave me a German Bible. I read it. I started to read it. I was witness to it, and I couldn't escape the truth of the Scripture.
And actually, it was a Gospel of John where I was confronted. And I said, if this is really true about Jesus Christ what's standing there, how can I reject it? And so that is when God really spoke to my heart, changed my life, and it was kind of a conversion where I realized from one moment to another, things were totally different.
My whole, I came to the States to have a huge career. In the end, I basically ended up in a Bible school in the church and learned at Grace Community Church.
But at least you got an American wife out of the deal. I did.
And I'm happily married, have four grown children, and actually grandchildren. I'm already a grandpa. I didn't look like it, but, you know, that's, I feel young, but, you know, physically you get there sometimes.
Christian, how old are you? I think you're my age, right? Fifty, I think 52. Okay.
So I thought it would be interesting for our listeners on No Compromise Radio. To, I love the story about Ronald Reagan. What can you tell us about that story?
It's so interesting. Well, it was really interesting. When I came to the United States, I went to the Bible school down at Grace Community Church and I needed a job. So I went to hunt for a job. I went to the Central Plaza Hotel, which was at that time doing Ronald Reagan's time where he was president, and he would stay in the Central Plaza Hotel.
So one, and I had, my responsibility was housekeeping, and housekeeping was overseeing the visit of Ronald Reagan. And one of the visits I was responsible for. So I went shopping for his wife to buy all the stuff for her while she was in town and staying in the suite at the Central Plaza Hotel.
And I had an opportunity actually to meet Ronald Reagan because I said, well, if you are, you know, setting up everything, you should meet him. And so the butler called me up and said, hey, would you want to come up and clean?
And I said, well, can we clean? Is anybody there? Yeah, Mr. Reagan, Mr. President, is there? So we went and he came up and talked to us, actually, it was really interesting.
And you told me he was very kind. He didn't act in a condescending way because you were the housekeeper. Not at all.
I have, I was really, really, he was very personable. That was different with the Secret Service. They were different, but they were very stern and harsh because they had to, I mean, they had to protect him.
But he was very personable and very friendly.
Christian Andresen is our guest today on No Compromise Radio. Christian, I'm looking at Ephesians chapter one where God the Father is to be blessed for every spiritual blessing. And then he starts off with, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.
Is election, is predestination a tough topic for the new German Christians as well as it is here for those in the United States? And if so, why?
Well, it would be a difficult topic if they would be, if they are not taught in that right from the beginning. Then if they come to Christ by any other means, I mean, of course they come to Christ by the gospel and by God's Spirit's working.
But if they were told it's because for some reason it's because they are good in some way or form, of course it's a difficult concept to understand and to relate to. But in our churches where we teach, I don't think so.
Those people accept that and know it, and they realize that they are totally depraved and they are just by the grace of God came to face and they are elected.
Christian, it's amazing to me that even though it's bad not to have a theological education and live in a secular country like Germany is, the good side of that is when people do get saved and then they come to the classes, I know you have master's level classes down to just classes for lay people, classes for men and women and for preachers, they come and they look at the text and they are convinced that the Bible is the word of God.
And then when they read the doctrine of election, they just submit to it.
It's no problem then if you take the word for what it is. And that's the thing, if you don't jump around it and make it something different. And for us, everybody who would come to our training center would know at the end of one year or two years, whatever, they said one thing we know about the EBTC, they love the word of God and we live it.
And so of course we are not perfect in no means, we know our weaknesses, but we love the word of God and I think every one of our teachers does and the students at the end should love the word of God as well.
Christian Tao and I were taking a tour of Boston yesterday with my wife and a couple children, Maddie and Gracie, and we went past Trinity Church and outside of Trinity Church, the rector of Trinity was Philip Brooks, a famous preacher.
His theology wasn't the best, but he's known for many things, including the definition of preaching, that is truth of personality. But when we looked at the statue, I found it interesting, Christian, that underneath describing the man is the description that we all want as pastors, we all want as Bible teachers, and it said, Philip Brooks, a preacher of the word of God.
Yeah, that is something which we need again in Europe and Germany, we need to have this kind of, yeah, basically a testimony of the man in the future that they will be known for the word of God. And that needs to be evident, it needs to be evident in the preaching, teaching, but also in their life, that it's not something passive.
And since the word of God is living and active, Luther would say things like, you know, how'd you start the Reformation, Martin? And he'd say, well, I preached the word of God and then I went to bed. Right?
The spirit of God just took the word. It's true. I have to ask you these questions. Did Luther say that men made beer and God made wine? Would he say such a thing?
I think he would. And he said, well, I mean, there's, well, I shouldn't say.
One of my favorite Luther quotes is, he said, regarding the word of God, that if the word of God told me to go across the street and eat dung, I would, and I would know that it would be good for me.
Well, I didn't read that, but if you say so, I will trust you.
He also said, there's only two days in my calendar, today and that day, speaking of judgment. That's good. That is very good. And that's very important to remember. Christian, tell us about the website.
The EBTC has an English speaking website as well. So some of our folks can go and look at it. What's the website?
It's www .ebtc-online .org. And you will find it in there's an English or American flag and you can just click on it and you get to the English site. Perfect.
Now, I know you're very emphatic about teaching men. Titus chapter 2 says that we have heard, Paul said, you've heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, 2 Timothy 2 .2, entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
Tell us your philosophy of training men and teaching men. And is that sexist? Is that against ladies? Why the strong mandate for teaching men?
Well, because the Bible says so. It's not because we choose to, because we like it better. I know that some of the ladies would be better teachers probably than us. But that's our command. That's meant for the men.
We God wanted this from the beginning. It was from creation on. It's nothing we came up with. So that's why we do it. But the thing is we do also teach women to be good mothers in the home and we believe totally in Titus 2 .2 and Titus 2.
And also how we teach men, well, we lead them through the whole Bible. We lead them from the first book of the Bible to the last book of the Bible, going through Bible survey, preaching institute, biblical counseling, and up to the master's class, even to master's of theology.
We try to spend as much time as we can with them, but we leave them in their churches as a bivocational school so that the people, the students, while they are in school can go to the churches and be involved in them.
And that has been very successful so far. And we have also a whole team of men who are working around with me, and they do like an internship, but that usually works into a pastoral ministry in the churches where they serve.
Christian, when I think about gospel ministry and EBTC, now you've gone from Berlin to Zurich, and then you've got a place in Cologne as well. What's happening in Europe with the Bible and Bible training?
It seems to be going in the right direction. Am I reading that correctly?
I think so. I think that you have the younger generation who are not satisfied anymore with tradition or know the Word of God because their parents knew it. They want to know it themselves. They want to study.
They want to get to the truth. And so they start to study. And when they find a school that's bivocational where they can continue to work or be part of that church and study, then that's where they go to.
And so that's why we have this increase in number and students, and we see it opening up in Czech Republic, and we hope in Poland something's going to happen, in Austria, even in Scandinavia. So things are happening, are developing.
We work with Italy. We work a little bit with Spain, with France.
So there is a lot of things happening. Speaking of Italy, November 8th through 14th, 2015, there's a special trip to Rome. Tell me about that.
I'd like to go on that trip. This is an incredible trip to Rome. We have an incredible pastor there. I think his name is Mike Ebenraus. He's teaching through Romans in five to six days. Now here's the thing.
16 chapters, 16 locations, and 16 meals in six days. So that is amazing. So if you want to be part of that, please come on our website, check it out. It will be in English, and you will have to do some homework and studies beforehand, but it will be an incredible tour, and we are looking forward to it.
Christian, I think I'm going to lose 16 pounds before I go. I think you better do.
But here's the thing. Have good walking shoes. We've walked a mile now, I would say, at least. It's going to be a lot of walking.
Christian, you live in secular Europe, secular Germany. America is becoming quickly secularized, and we are experiencing, I'm sure, in the future issues about churches and gay marriage and all kinds of things like that.
What would you tell American pastors and churches and congregations about, I don't know, trusting in the Lord through these times? I mean, because we're going to be where you are, so how do you minister where you are now?
What lessons could we learn from you?
I think one of the things we can learn from you, and maybe you can learn something from us, we just trust in the Word of God and continue to do what we know is right, in spite of all the obstacles. We don't engage in things which pull us away, and we don't fight over things that are not worth dying for.
And the truth, obviously, is worth dying for, and that's why we fight for the truth. And when it comes to issues like how to raise your family, which is, the family is totally under attack, I mean, with all kinds of issues.
You know, when you talk about family in Germany, you have to define what you're talking about. You assume that's a wife and a husband with children, but that's not necessarily what we talk in Germany about, not even the politicians say that.
So that's the challenge we face, but we hold on to that, and we confront those issues, and we practice them, and not in a way where we would become military or where we become aggressive, but with the truth, proclaiming it, living it, and hopefully practicing it wherever we can.
Christian, it seems like when I go to Germany, most everyone can speak English. It seems like the lingua franca of the day is English for whatever reason, business, I guess. But that's been used of the Lord for good materials in English, now the German students can read them.
You have a great library there with both English and German books. How's the German publishing going, or is that slowly ramping up? What's the...
Well, we do publish. We translate books from English into German, and we publish them. That is done. We also start publishing our own books. Some of our professors are writing books. Benedict Peters is starting to write a systematic theology, two parts have been already printed and published.
But there are other things which we are doing. But still, we will never get to the point where we have so much material that is necessary to have the higher degrees in theology if we would not translate the books from English.
Because most of the books written in German are affected by the liberal theology of the last 100 years, 120 years. And that is just evident, and therefore we have to be very, very careful.
What's the university down south? Is it Tübingen? Tübingen, yes. Is that still very influential?
Oh, yes. Yes, because the state churches, they have the right to train and the state has the right to train the theologians of our time, and they are only the accredited school. There's one more accredited school, but even they are not so clear anymore as we wish.
So that makes it, of course, when somebody asks for somebody who has a doctorate in theology or in New Testament, Old Testament, whatever, they would then go to those schools, and they are liberal, and they would get their opinion rather than a Bible-centered opinion of a Bible-believing pastor.
Christian, I know it's probably fleshly for me to think this, but I thought, you know, I could probably get a couple Tübingen shirts, and then I'd walk around at the Shepherds Conference in Los Angeles with those shirts on and just see if I get a good reaction.
Well, you have funny ideas. I decided not to do it.
No, I wouldn't. Well, I remember the story of Karl Barth. He came to America in 1933 and was interviewed, and Karl Henry asked him a question. Henry was an editor for Christianity Today, and he said, if there was a movie camera in the tomb of Jesus, what would be recorded?
That is, would there be a literal resurrection or just a spiritual resurrection in your heart like Barth would talk about? And Barth said, who are you with again? And Karl Henry said, Christianity Today.
And Barth said, Christianity Yesterday, you mean? Because this is the old religion, and so I'm very encouraged that there's a new group of people in Germany who teach the literal bodily resurrection. Contra Boltzmann and Pallenberg and all these other people in Barth, this is the real resurrected Jesus.
Absolutely, and we stand for that.
Okay, so we're talking to Christian Andresen today. Bethlehem Bible Church is thankful that we can support him and the ministry at EBTC, European Bible Training Center, www .ebtc-online .org, and you can pull up the English website.
Christian, thanks for coming to America. It's good to see you. I'm thankful that you're here.
And any other? We've got 15 seconds. Anything you want us to know or do? Well, we are just very thankful for the partnership we have here. Thank you so much.
Good. You can email me at info at nocompromiseradio .com if you'd like some more information about Christian and the ministry and what he's doing there. God bless you.
No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.
Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.
The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff, or management.