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Welcome back to Conversations with a Calvinist. My name is Keith Foskey and I am a Calvinist. Well it's June and you know what that means. Every logo that we see is now sporting rainbow colors and we know why because June is Pride Month and it's interesting.
I had a friend post something the other day and it said, you know, Pride is the only one of the seven deadly sins that gets its own month. Maybe next month we should do Lust Month and then maybe we could do Gluttony Month and maybe we could go on and on through the seven deadly sins.
Well, as we know, this is a month where many Christians are force-fed through the media and even sometimes through their own work and jobs and careers having to deal with the issue of homosexuality and what we call here on the program the Letter People, the LGBTQIA plus group, and it just seems like they keep adding letters to that particular, that listing, you know, and it's something that we all have to deal with as believers.
It's something that we have to consider how we are going to deal with it. The church has been having to consider how it deals with it and what is sad is that given the rise of liberalism in the church, given the rise of leftism within the church, given the rise of the falling away from the scriptures, falling away from what the Bible says, we see more and more and more and more that the agenda of the LGBTQ movement is in fact continuing to make its way into churches and to find its home in the pews and we have to deal with it.
We have to figure out how we're going to deal with it as individual churches and as individual believers. So today what I wanted to do on the program is simply talk about how we should respond to this month as individual Christians, how the church should be responding, and ultimately what is it that we should be doing?
Should we not be doing anything? Should we be doing a lot? Should we dedicate some sermon series to this particular subject? You know, this is what is going to be on the program today. Unfortunately, I don't have a guest to talk to, so today's conversation is going to be one-sided.
It's just going to be me talking through the program, but that happens sometimes. I did not have an opportunity to get a guest for this week, but perhaps next week or in the weeks ahead we'll be able to revisit this topic, maybe talk about it a little bit more.
I do want to say this, though. A few weeks ago I did a program on gray areas. We talked about navigating gray areas of the faith, and one of the things that I said in that program was that there are a lot of people who believe that homosexuality is a gray area.
And I want to be very clear right now and say unequivocally, because I do think there was a little bit of confusion. I do not believe that homosexuality is a gray area. I believe the Bible is clear about this particular sin, and we're going to look at some of the scriptures today to demonstrate that.
But a person asked me if I believed that homosexuality was a gray area, and I said absolutely not. The only reason why it came up on the subject of gray areas when we had that program a few weeks ago is, quite frankly, because there are people who say it's a gray area, and I would absolutely disagree.
I would say that this is not something that the Bible is unclear about, either in the Old Testament scriptures or the New Testament scriptures. And that is something that is debated, but I don't believe that the debate is sound.
I believe the Bible is so clear that this issue is not one that is really up for debate. In fact, it hasn't been. If we look at the history of the church, the question of homosexuality has only recently been a question of whether or not that that is a sin.
Up until this past generation, my generation and perhaps the generation before, has it even been a question as to whether or not this is a sin, the act of homosexual relationships, the participation in homosexual activity, whether or not that was a sin.
It was clearly identified in the Bible, clearly understood in history, and yet we're being told today by some of the elites in the culture that the Bible is unclear on this issue. The Bible doesn't speak to this issue.
And I hope to show you today that's not true. The Bible is very clear about homosexuality, and we can stand on the Word of God and say the Word of God is unambiguous when it comes to the question of homosexuality.
Now, on top of that, there is another side to the argument, ones who would say, well, homosexuality, yes, the Bible says it's a sin, but it's no different than any other sin, and you're a sinner, so who are you to say that my sin is any worse than your sin?
So that's another way that we have to be able to address this issue. And, of course, that leads into the conversation of the difference between a sin that is something that someone battles with or a sin that someone gives into and perpetually practices, habitually practices, and so we're going to talk about that as well.
So let's go back and let's start over and let's kind of ease our way into this conversation by first talking about how do we know that homosexuality is, in fact, a sin? Well, a lot of people like to start with the Old Testament scriptures and point to the fact that it is very clear in the Old Testament that the Bible declares homosexuality a sin, and many of us know the passage, but I am going to be pulling up the scripture today and talking about it.
If you go in your Bibles to Leviticus chapter 18, and look with me there, and we're going to see what it says regarding this issue. So it's Leviticus chapter 18, and it's referring to homosexuality, and it says in verse 22, You shall not lie with a male as with a woman.
It is an abomination. And you shall not lie with any animal, and so make yourself unclean with it. Neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it. It is a perversion. So that is Leviticus 18, 22, and 23, and that's often the passage that people will go to immediately, and they'll say, say, here the Bible is clear.
If a man lies with a man as with a woman, which of course is referring to sexuality, then that is of course sinful. And it calls it an abomination. Now an abomination means something that is grotesque, something that has an odor, something that smells bad.
In the Bible, oftentimes we talk about a pleasing aroma to the Lord when sacrifices are burned, when incense are burned. We talk about a pleasing aroma that makes its way up to the Lord. Well, the opposite of that would be an abomination, something that is smelly.
I like to tell the story of the abominable snowman. The reason why that term is used, abominable snowman, is because whenever the people who were finding the Yeti or finding the snowman would find these tracks, it was often accompanied by a very terrible odor.
And so that odor was abominable. It smelled bad. And so he became known as the abominable snowman, or the smelly, as it were, smelly snowman. And so the term abominable simply means, or abomination simply means something that is grotesque, something that is not a pleasant smell, something that is, in a sense, gross.
Simply stated, it's gross. And verse 23, it goes on to talk about not lying with an animal. And here's the interesting thing, is not too many people that I know of are arguing for bestiality. Not too many people do I hear argue for the righteousness of a man having relation with an animal or a woman having a relationship with an animal.
That is, of course, something that is the Bible in this text in the ESV calls it a perversion. Well, of course, it's a perversion. That's not natural. Well, it's in the same context as homosexuality. It's something that is not natural.
It's something that is not, should not be done. But I want to throw a word of caution at this moment. If you are engaging with homosexual, I don't immediately encourage you to go to this passage. And the reason is, is because the common response of this passage is what I like to refer to as the West Wing response.
And this was from the television show, The West Wing. This verse was brought up during that television show. And, of course, the president, played by Martin Sheen, being the great liberal mind that he was, was able to say, well, the Bible and the Old Testament scriptures gives all kinds of things that are wrong and should not be done.
And begins to list off selling your daughter into slavery. And he lists several other things. And I've actually done, I've talked about the West Wing question on the program before. I've even given a video.
If you want to look that up on a previous podcast, just look on Coffee with a Calvinist, which was the previous name of this particular program. I was going daily, doing a daily program. And I had the video.
And we talked about the video of the West Wing question. So I would encourage you to go back because I deal with their, the understanding of the distinction of this particular question, because the question is looking at the Old Covenant and saying, OK, the Old Covenant law is, is there are parts of it that are not enforced today.
And you say, well, wait a minute. That's dangerous because now you're getting a picky choosy. You know, you're going to start telling me that you're, you know, this, this, this text applies and this text doesn't apply.
And that is an important thing that we have to understand. There is there is a reality within the Bible that under the Old Covenant, the Old Covenant laws have been have been fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ.
And therefore, we are no longer under the Old Covenant as New Covenant Christians. We are not part of the Old Covenant. We are brought into the New Covenant by faith in Jesus Christ. And because we're brought into the New Covenant by faith, we are not under the same legal code as those under the Old Covenant.
But there are laws that I would argue transcend the covenants. A good example would be thou shalt not commit murder. That law is the same in the Old Covenant as it is in the New Covenant. We shall not commit murder.
That is a law that we are commanded to keep. It is not something that was abrogated in the New Covenant. It's not something that was fulfilled in Christ in such a way that it needed not to be re-established in the New Covenant.
So we have in the law, in the New Covenant law, a command not to murder. Therefore, we have a transcendent law. It transcends the covenants. When Cain and Abel were alive, that preceded the Old Mosaic Covenant, and yet it was wrong when Cain killed Abel.
That was murder, and it was still wrong. So murder transcends the covenant. So the question becomes, does homosexuality transcend the covenant? Well, there's two things to consider in this regard. We can see homosexuality prior to the Mosaic Covenant, and we can see homosexuality after the Mosaic Covenant.
If we go back into the book of Genesis, which I'm preaching through right now, we come to a text which talks about a city called Sodom. And this city called Sodom is a place where there was homosexuality happening, and the Lord destroyed the city of Sodom.
In fact, many of you are probably familiar with that story because there was a man there whose name was Lot, and Lot was saved before the city was destroyed. And even very recently, as in within the last hundred years, there have been conversations where people have used the term sodomy.
What does the word sodomy mean? It means homosexual relations between men. And where does the term sodomy come from? It comes from the city of Sodom. So there's an example of homosexuality prior to the Mosaic Covenant, being used prior to the Mosaic Covenant, where God brought judgment against a city, and we know one of the sins of that city was the sin of homosexuality.
It's interesting because this is something Vodibachum has brought up in his sermon on the subject of homosexuality. He said there are people who say, well, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.
Not true. Because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have always been of one mind in the sense of they agree on the subject of sin, and they agreed on the subject of the destruction of Sodom.
That was a Trinitarian act. When the city of Sodom was destroyed, that was a Trinitarian destruction. And therefore Christ has demonstrated judgment on homosexuality in the city of Sodom. But then we move to the New Testament.
We say, well, does the Bible still condemn homosexuality in the New Testament? Well, I believe that it does, and I believe it's easy to prove that it does. A few passages that I would bring up. One would be 1 Corinthians chapter 6.
1 Corinthians chapter 6. If you have your Bible, I would encourage you to go there and look with me. It talks about the unrighteous, beginning in verse 9. And it says, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. So we see right here, it tells us in verse 9 that practicing homosexuality is listed among other sins.
And I've never seen anyone defend thievery. I've never seen anyone defend greediness, or drunkenness, or reviling, or swindling. All of those things, they would say absolutely those are sins. No Christian should engage in those things.
But right there in the list is the phrase men who practice homosexuality. And you say, well, wait a minute. Why does it say it that way? Why is it so specific? Well, if you move to the King James Bible, it actually says it a little differently.
If you read the King James Bible, it says, know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers.
And you say, well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. That's way different. That doesn't say homosexuality. It doesn't even use the word homosexuality. And that's true. Because the King James, again, is written in 1611.
Certainly, it's gone through a few additions as far as updating language. But the language is still an older form. But it's saying something very important. Because the two words that are used here are the words malakoi and arsenikoites.
Malakoi means soft or effeminate. And arsenikoites means a person who has sexual intercourse with a man. And so when we look at these two together, when we see arsenikoites and malakoi, together, what we are seeing is we are seeing the active and passive participant in the homosexual interaction.
The active and passive participant in a homosexual interaction. So keeping that in mind, the arsenikoites is the masculine. The malakoi is the feminine, the one who these two are engaging in a homosexual interaction.
And so this is saying, it's listing this as sins. Sorry for hitting the microphone. This is listing these as sins along with all of these other sins. And someone says, well, is that the only place in the New Testament that references homosexuality?
No. But this is a very clear place that references homosexuality. And there are other places. And I'll go only to one more because I do want to move on with the conversation. If you go to Romans chapter 1, there is a passage.
And this passage is important because it references not only homosexuality with men, but it also references it with women. It says, beginning in verse 24, this is Romans 1 verse 24,. Therefore God gave them up in the lust of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever.
Amen. For this reason, for what reason? Well, they have exchanged the truth about God for a lie. They have become idolaters. And what has happened? Well, for this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions.
Notice that. He gave them up to dishonorable passions. What did the dishonorable passions look like? For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature. And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Someone says, that doesn't say homosexuality. No, it doesn't. It doesn't use the language of homosexuality. But what it does say, is it says that women exchange natural relations for those that are contrary to nature.
And I have to ask this question. Do we need to really ask the question, what is natural affection for a woman? Well, up until this last generation, natural affection for a woman was a woman for a man.
And the natural affection for a man was a man for a woman. And what do we call it when a man has a sexual affection for another man? We call it unnatural. You see, if a man has an attraction to a woman, as I do for my wife, that is a natural affection.
That is the way God has designed. That a man would have an affection for a woman, and a woman would have an affection for a man. And the very fact that I have to explain this is ridiculous. I'm just going to stop for a moment and say this is ridiculous.
The fact that I have, because some of you are out there saying you can't prove that, and that isn't true. Let me tell you something. If you're having trouble believing anything that I just said about natural affections, you have already been caught by the culture.
You have already bought the lie. It's, I remember having this conversation. I had this conversation on social media with a man who was obviously very educated. In fact, in our interaction, he claimed to be a professor.
And the way that he spoke and the articulation of his words made me believe that most likely he probably did have a college education, perhaps some form of master or doctorate degree. And as he was speaking to me, it was very clear to me that he was intelligent, but at the same time, his intelligence was not equal to wisdom.
Because as I was noting to him, homosexuality is unnatural because Paul tells us in this passage, he uses the phrase to go against nature. He says to give up natural relations. And he said, there's no such thing as natural relations.
He says, there's no such thing as natural. And I said, what do you mean there's no such thing as natural? He says, that is simply something that we have created. The idea of natural affections doesn't have any meaning.
It simply is the mores of a society which are influenced by all kinds of things. There's no such thing as natural affection. And I couldn't believe that a man of letters, a man of scholarship, a man who was supposed to be one who teaches others, could not admit that there is something that is natural and something that is unnatural.
And homosexuality is simply unnatural. Now you say, well, what about a person who is born with the feelings of homosexuality? Well, I would say this, those feelings are still unnatural, even if it is something that they have had as long as they can remember.
Because if a person came to me and said, I have a feeling in my heart, a desire in my heart to blow up in rage and beat people. I have feelings in my heart that I want to be angry and I want to blow up in rage and I want to beat people to a pulp.
That's an unnatural desire. That's a sinful desire. And you need to flee from that desire. You need to recognize the sin and you need to turn from it. Because that desire itself is a desire for something that is sinful.
And so to say that a person's desires are natural simply because they have them is to buy into the culture, the culture which says that we are no longer responsible for giving in to our most base desires.
And that's where we are. Our culture says, well, because the person had those desires, they can't choose what desires they have. Therefore, they're not responsible for giving in to those desires. And that's a very dangerous place to be because we end up where we are today, where nobody's responsible for anything.
Isn't that where we are? Where nobody is responsible? Where any time anyone does anything wrong, we blame someone else or something else for their sin rather than saying that they are responsible for themselves and for the sin that they engage in.
People blame all kinds of stuff. They blame their upbringing. They blame society. They blame their socioeconomic status. They blame all kinds of things. Why? Because they do not want to carry on the responsibility of having to be the one who bears the burden of the guilt of their own sin.
And that's where we end up in this situation. Well, we can't say that the sin is sinful because then we would be saying the person's responsible. Now, I want to take a step back because I do know that there are some questions on the subject of, well, what if a person has homosexual desires, but they do not act on them?
That's an important question. And it is a question that's come up in a lot of churches. It's a question that has come up in a lot of context. And a lot of pastors I've heard have said, well, if they have the desires, but they're not acting on the desires, then we would simply say that's good because it's acting on the desires that's sinful.
And to that point, let me say this. If a person came to our church and they said, you know what, I struggle with this. It's a desire. I know it's an unnatural desire. I know it's a sinful desire. I'm not engaging in that.
And I know it's wrong. And I'm repenting. And I want to repent of that. Then we would come along that side that person and love that person and encourage that person. But here's the thing. We would never say it's a natural desire.
That's the point that we have to get past. We have to quit giving into the culture. The culture says this desire is natural. The Bible says this is an unnatural desire. This is not something that is wholesome or righteous or good.
And it's not something we should just say, this is natural because it's not. The desire of a man to have sexual relations with another man is unnatural. It is ungodly. And the desire itself is demonstration of a heart that is consumed with something that's unnatural.
And again, can that person be saved? Can a person who has an unnatural desire be saved? Well, I would say that a person who has an unnatural desire certainly can be saved because all of us have sinful thoughts and sinful desires that are wrong.
And it is the engaging of the sin where it becomes, where it's fulfilled in the action of the sin. And if a person came to me and said, well, I'm living in homosexual sin and I'm saved, I would say, I don't believe that that is true only because the Bible says we cannot be committing habitual, consistent, unrepentant sin and be saved.
That just is what the Bible teaches. And so if we're living in sin, there's no reason to claim that we are saved. But if a person says, okay, this is my struggle, this is my battle, and I know it's wrong and I know it's unnatural, and I am fighting this as any man would fight, any man or woman would fight any sin.
And I have had that happen. I've had people come to my office and say, this is the thing I struggle with. And I come alongside them, I pray with them, and I say, I love you, and I wanna pray with you, and I wanna pray that God would take away this unnatural desire.
But what we can't do is say that it's natural, say that it's normal, because it's not. It's unnatural, it's ungodly. And as Leviticus did tell us, the action itself is an abomination. And if we say anything other than that, we're being dishonest.
Now, I do wanna move on to one other thing, because this is important. This is the question of whether or not this sin is greater than other sins. Because I've heard it said by many people, well, I don't understand why you're always harping on homosexuality.
It's no different than any other sin. Well, I wanna deal with that in two ways. Number one, the Bible does address sexual sin in a different way than it does other sins. The Bible talks about sexual sin being a sin against the body and being in such a way that it is inherently more dangerous than some other sins.
And so to say that all sin is equal is actually a misunderstanding of James' point when he talks about all sin is sin. In James chapter two, he says that if a person breaks the law at one point, they've broken the whole law.
That doesn't mean that all sin is the same. What it's saying is all sin is sin. And to say that all sin is equal is not actually what the Bible teaches. The Bible talks about people who've sinned greater than other people.
And so the idea that all sin is absolutely equal and we can't see any sins as being distinguishable from others is actually not true. But that's a topic for another day. What I wanna talk about today though is actually the heart of the issue.
The heart of the issue is not whether or not homosexuality is worse than any other sin because I would say this, homosexuality as a sin is a sexual sin but it's not the one that I see the most. The one that I see the most in the church is actually fornication.
People who will have sex together without being married. And I will point that out quickly. I will say, you know what? Yes, homosexuality is a sin but so is fornication. And when I see two people who are having sex, who are living together outside of the bonds of marriage and they're having sex outside the bond of marriage, I would say that person is committing a sexual sin which is dangerous and is ungodly and is an abomination unto God.
That is not what sex is for. Sex is for the marriage bed. The book of Hebrews tells us the marriage bed is sacred, not the two people who want to come together and have a good time, have a one night stand.
That is an abomination unto God. So to say that homosexuality is worse in that sense, I would say it's worse in the sense that it's unnatural. It's an unnatural desire but still, it's still in that sense, it's a sexual sin.
It's dangerous and so is fornication. But here's the thing that makes homosexuality different today. Today, there are people who say homosexuality is not a sin. That's what makes it dangerous. When people say, you know, I know this person, he's such a nice guy.
He does so much good work for the community. He's such a good employee. He does this, he does that. But you know what, he's homosexual. He has a husband who is his mate and they're so good to one another.
And I say, slow down. One, he doesn't have a husband because the Bible defines marriage. God defines marriage. And marriage is between a man and a woman, one man and one woman. It is not between a man and a man.
It is not between a man or a woman and a woman. It's not between a man and a dog or a man and a sandwich. You can't have it your own way. God gets to define what sin or excuse me, what marriage is. And God defines what sin is.
So it's not marriage and it's not godly. And here's the thing. This is, again, it's only in this last generation that this even has to be said. But this isn't a hard thing to conceive of. It is sin and it is something that the Bible clearly tells us is sin.
So when somebody says, well, why do you harp on homosexuality? I don't harp on homosexuality. I don't harp on homosexuality at all in any way, any more than I would theft or murder or anything else. It is a sin.
But the reason why homosexuality comes up more than those other sins is no one is trying to normalize murder. No one is, except for abortion, but again, topic for another day. No one's out there saying, well, murder should be, we should have a whole month where we celebrate murder.
We should have a whole month where we celebrate thievery. We should have a whole month where we celebrate lies. Nobody's doing that. But they are saying we should have a whole month where we celebrate homosexuality.
Where we celebrate the pride, which itself is a sin. Pride goeth before the fall and a haughty spirit before destruction. We celebrate pride. And that pride is what? Pride for being homosexual. Pride for being transgender, transsexual.
All of these things. It's pride, LGBTQIA. It's all lumped together now. And it's pride in sin. Nobody's doing that for murder. If they were, we'd be saying the same thing about murder. If they were doing that for lying, we'd be saying the same thing about lying.
The problem is they're doing it for homosexuality. And it's dangerous. And it's wrong. And it's sinful. And the sad thing is, I don't know how much longer programs like this will be able to air with me saying this.
Because in other countries, pastors who have said similar things to what I'm saying today have already had their voices silenced. Some even have had to go through lawsuits. And yes, some have even been imprisoned because of saying the very things that I am saying today.
I know this is difficult to hear. I know this is not something the culture wants to hear. And I know it's easy to vilify a man like me for saying it. But I want to close by saying something very important.
I absolutely love people. And I love all people because all people are made in the image of God. And for somebody to say, I hate homosexuals, that's a wrong statement. That is untrue. I do not hate homosexuals.
It's a homosexual people. I don't want to see them go to hell. And if they are living in perpetual, habitual, unrepentant sin, if they are prideful over their sin, then they are in danger of hell. And so my heart for them is that they would turn from their sin and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Because he can save them. He can change their heart. The Holy Spirit can come and take out the heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh. And if you don't believe that that's true, I can point you to people, many people who God has done that very thing.
There are many people out there who God has changed their hearts. God has changed their lives. He has taken them from sinful and depraved to following the Lord Jesus Christ as sanctified saints. And again, are they sinless now?
No, I'm not sinless now. It's not about being sinless. It's about turning from sin, turning to Christ, trusting in his righteousness, and knowing that outside of his righteousness, there is no salvation.
So today has been a difficult podcast because this is a difficult subject. But for many of us, this is a difficult month. Because every time we turn around, we're seeing the Noahic covenant, the sign of the Noahic covenant, the rainbow, being misused to celebrate sin.
But believer, let me encourage you. There are still churches that preach the truth. There are still pastors who are willing to call sin, sin. And if you're in a church that isn't willing to call sin, sin, if you're in a church that isn't willing to say the truth about these things, then might I encourage you, it might be time to have a talk with your pastor.
It might be time to look for another church. Now, I don't encourage people to leave churches lightly, but I will say this. If you're a pastor, if you're in a church that will not call sin by its name, then that is a dangerous first step to false teaching.
So let me encourage you today to come alongside pastors and teachers who preach the truth about sin and are willing to stand up in our culture and call sin by its name. Thank you for listening today to Conversations with a Calvinist.
My name is Keith Foskey and I've been your Calvinist. May God bless you.
Thank you for listening to Conversations with a Calvinist. If you enjoyed the program, please take a moment to subscribe. And if you have a question you would like us to discuss on our future program, please email us at calvinistpodcast at gmail .com.
As you go about your day, remember this, Jesus Christ came to save sinners. All who come to Him in repentance and faith will find Him to be a perfect Savior. He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him.
May God be with you.