MSL: May 1, 2024

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody.

Show Introduction and Upcoming Topics

Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live, and you can probably tell my voice is a little out of sorts. So this head cold thing started today, and I'm fighting it. But I'm going to do the show, and unless it gets really bad, I'll continue.

So that's what it is. Just got a bad head cold, and I get it about once a year. I get it about once a year, and it does this about this time of year, so that's what it is. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and we can blab. We can do whatever you want. It'll be fun. And so we've had some good calls lately. They've been interesting, and the issues, you know, dealing with confusion, with baptism, with parables, with other stuff.

I did some research today and working on an article, and releasing another article. I've got a bunch I'm working on. And let's see. Yeah, let's see. I've got a lot of stuff going. Somebody called yesterday about the God of Confusion, and why does he speak in parables.

So I wrote an article on that, read the context of that statement, 1 Corinthians 14, 33, and wrote an article on it, and it'll be released on the 5th. And also, I wrote an article which was released. It'll be released in two days.

One of the main issues of the seven churches of Revelation, you know, I've been to each of the locations, and it's really cool to be able to stand in those places where the people of God were, and some good churches and some bad churches.

And I wrote this article. It'll be released on Friday. And I wrote this article very succinctly, just what are the positive, negatives from each church, what God says, what Jesus says, and then the application.

Very simple. A lot of times people write entire books on these things. Me, I like it being quick and slick, so I just get right there and do that. And today, how does election work with the Great Commission?

That article was released today. What I'm trying to do for the Karm site is to write one article that gets released every other day so that there's a constant flow of stuff coming out. And as we work on SEO, search engine optimization and other things.

And I spent about an hour on the phone with our web guy, and we're going to be working on some things and get some other stuff going. So we're in the process of that. And the schools, if you're having any trouble, anybody out there, if you're trying the schools and there's any problem, what we need is you to say, when I went to this URL, and I typed in my name, this is what happened.

This is the error I got. That way, we know exactly what's going on. When someone says, I had trouble logging in, it really doesn't help us. So we need to know. I was trying to log in. It asked for me a password.

I sent in my request for a link. It never came in, or it did come in. When I did, it didn't work. Just things like that. And that's what we need to know. But we have 5 ,000 people who have signed up for the schools.

And we had 30 requests for resets of passwords last month. And that's fine. That's good. So a lot of times, people just forget what their passwords are or get a new computer and lose the information. And that's fine.

And they just ask. And sometimes, they can't get something solved, and they'll let us know, and we'll take care of it on that end. But we are able now to get back in. And there was a change in security that was done in the powers-that-be out there on the internet, and it messed us up a little bit.

But, hey, that's all good now, too. So we're going to be working on all kinds of stuff on stores, and we're going to be changing some things so that people will be able to manage their accounts a lot more easy, a lot easier, a lot more easier, a lot more easily.

And we'll be working on that. So that's another thing. In the works, it'll be a few weeks before that's released and by the way, I will be, Lord willing, the date for me to do a debate is the last Friday of this month of May.

And I'm supposed to debate a Mormon. And does the Bible teach salvation by faith or works? And it'll be at Weber State in Ogden from 4 p .m. to 6 p .m. on that Friday. Now, 4 p .m., I wish it was a little bit later because 4 p .m. is a bad time.

I said it's not a good time for that because a lot of people are just getting off work. And if it was 7, a lot more people would show up. But that's just the availability. That's what it was. So that's what we're doing, and that's what it is.

I forgot the guy's name. I'll be debating. He's a Mormon, and by God's grace, be able to present the biblical truth of what it is and that the teachings of Mormonism will be exposed as not being biblical.

And that's what we'll see what happens. All right, let's get on the phone with Jeff from South Carolina. Jeff, welcome. You're on the air. Good evening.

Eternal Punishment in Hell

Just something quick, I guess. I've got probably family members that died, and I don't know if they were saved. Some of them profess to be nonbelievers. I didn't know, according to the Bible, when people die, if they don't go to heaven, are they like, basically, if you go to hell, are they like suffering forever and ever and ever, like forever tormented or destroyed, like they're just destroyed, and then they're burned up, and there's no more.

No, they continue on in their suffering forever. There's no end to it. Sorry, but that's what scriptures teach. I know there's a group called annihilationists, and they teach that after a while the person is annihilated, and that's just not biblical.

I've written, I think, 182 articles, literally 182, dealing with that topic and all kinds of word studies. I really get into it very heavily.

Yeah, it's just one of those things that I think about once in a while. Yeah, I've always kind of thought that too, but I've heard other people saying that they're destroyed. No, they're not.

You know, if they're destroyed, here's the faulty logic. Let's say from the annihilationist position, it's someone, they do really bad stuff, and then they die. There are several views here. We'll go through one at a time.

They die, they don't exist anymore. So the punishment then is nonexistence. But nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that punishment is nothing, because nonexistence is nothing. Punishment is always experienced.

And so to say that a person is annihilated is punishment, is problematic because it's just not consistent with what the scriptures teach. And furthermore, another problem is, let's say that I'll use conditions or states of existence.

That's not really going to work, but you'll see what I'm saying here. Let's say there's a condition where a person does not exist. Then he's born, or he comes into existence. And then according to annihilationism, he stops existing.

So that means to stop existing is punishment. But what it means to not exist is exactly identical after you're alive from before you're alive. They're identical, because there's nothing to them. And so how can condition three, nonexistence, be punishment when condition A is exactly identical to it is not?

You see, so it doesn't make any sense. That's one problem. Here's another problem. Sometimes people will say that a person might suffer for so many years according to his or her sin. And after that period of time, they are wiped out and they suffer no more.

Well, what that is saying is that a person's sin will get that individual a certain amount of punishment related to his sin. Okay, well, if that's the case, then let's say someone suffers for 500 years because of his sins.

And then he's done, and he gets annihilated. Well, wait a minute, why annihilated? Why not be redeemed? Because if the punishment of sin, which is breaking the law, is now met, that means the law has been satisfied.

If the law has been satisfied, then how come you can't be saved? And that's a question that the annihilationists don't really do well at answering. And so there's just a lot of problems. And plus, you know, Jesus says, you know, that, for example, in Matthew 25, 46, is what he says is, he says, These go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

So what they'll say is eternal punishment is nonexistence. That's what eternal punishment is. But again, like I said, that's not what punishment is. I've done some more studies on it. What was that, Scripture?

Yeah, that's Matthew 25, 46, yeah. And then you can go to Revelation 14.

Yes, that's right there, everlasting punishment, yeah. That's right.

Yep. Yeah, Revelation 14, 11. The smoke of the torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night for those who worship the beast and his image, whoever receives the mark of his name. So the smoke of the torment goes up forever and ever.

It's just what it is. I think there's another one, Revelation 20, 10. Yes, the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also, and they'll be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So it's eternal, unfortunately. Okay.

Historicism and the End Times

I don't really want to get into it, but I was kind of studying a little on the end times, but there's the historicist view. Have you ever studied any of that? That's more the view of the early reformers, I believe, as opposed to what the pre-trib, 70th century, like what everybody teaches now.

Yeah, I'm not very familiar with it, but it reminds me of preterism and partial preterism, that if things of the prophecies... Yeah, it goes with the book of Revelation, and the book of Revelation is very difficult to interpret sometimes, so it becomes difficult.

The reformers had a lot of good things to say about salvation, but I'm not so sure I'm convinced that their understandings of historicism is good. But that's all right.

Yeah, they don't believe in, like, there's a pre-trib rapture. They believe that the tribulation has been going on from the time of Christ, or the time of Christ's resurrection, and it's been historically going on all the way up to the return of Christ, whenever that is.

Right now, right?

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm an amillennialist, and my view of amillennialism is a little bit odd. I believe in a literal kingdom that we're in now of Christ ruling, but the reason it's not manifested is because His subjects, the Christians, aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing.

And that's why the Bible says Jesus will come and take out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and then we're raptured. The rapture does occur. Hey, man, there's a break.

If you want to hold, go ahead. If not, hang up and talk to Jeff. Okay, I'll let you go, Matt. All right, buddy. I don't think I have anything up my ass, but I appreciate you.

Okay, hey, God bless, Jeff. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. My voice is a little raspy today. That's just how it goes sometimes, but we'll get through it. All right, let's get to Carolyn from Ohio. Carolyn, welcome.

You are on the air.

Responding to Homosexuality in Church

Hi, Matt. I talked to you last night. I was one of your last callers, and you had mentioned me calling back. I had the woman that I met at church who was homosexual, and she says she's full of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, she's not.

If she's practicing homosexuality in an unrepentant state, then she is in a blasphemous condition. She is under judgment, and she needs to be prayed for, delivered from it.

My biggest problem is I've had this—I mean, I'm a Christian. I love the Lord with all my heart, and I want to win others to him or help to win others to him. But I can hardly stand to be around her. I don't like to be at church when she's there.

She comes in our Sunday school class, and like I said, she walks in, and she starts a hymn for everybody to sing. She dresses like a man, and I told her when we had had the lunch. I said—she said something about she was so surprised I realized she was homosexual.

I said, well, it seems to me like anybody that looks at you could tell. And she said, really? Well, anyway—. What church is this? I just don't know how to relate to her.

Okay, well, let's talk about that, but I'm curious. What church is it with denomination? Nazarene. Ah, that explains a lot. The Nazarene—sorry, but the Nazarene church is just going downhill. Its heart is in the gutter.

It's not in the place of Christ. I live literally five miles from Northwest Nazarene University, and we know around here that they're liberal and just not good. Not good at all. I could tell you stories.

In fact, they're promoting homosexuality in their church. So the Nazarene church is one of those churches, those denominations, that I recommend people leave. They flee from because they're apostate. And so I'm not saying we shouldn't love homosexuals.

I'm not saying don't have them in the church. Not at all. We want them in, and we want them to hear the gospel. But they need to be called to repentance. They cannot have their sin, the great sin of homosexuality, and also claim to serve and love Jesus.

These are not compatible at all.

Well, I've been wrestling with that, so that gives me an idea. Okay, well, thank you, Matt, so much for your program. And your last caller, that was quite a heavy sermon.

Yeah, there's the thing about truth. Yes, it is. And it'll be for the homosexuals and for the adulterers, the fornicators, the liars, the thieves, those people who have abided in those things. Yeah, for those who have abided in those things and those people who have not repented.

And they will meet their judgment, and it will be eternal. Yeah.

Well, thank you again so much, and I'll continue to listen to you. Keep it up. Well, thank you. Okay, thank you very much.

Well, God bless. Uh-huh. Bye-bye. Okay. All right, so here's the thing. I'm not against—let me put this right. Let's just say that our children have friends who are in the LGBT ABC alphabet mob, and we welcome them over at our house.

We say, come on over. That's okay. And we love on them, and we treat them respectfully and lovingly. And one of—let's just say we just found out yesterday, the day before, that one of them is now identifying with a certain set of pronouns.

My wife and I talked about it, and when or if and when that person comes over, we will not address that person by their preferred pronouns. I identify myself as a duogenderist. And a duogenderist—this is what I coined the term, I guess.

I looked it up. I didn't see any other term like that. So a duogenderist is someone who believes in two genders and the necessity of addressing them by their biological pronouns. So that's what a duogenderist—that's how I identify.

So if they want me to identify what they want to identify, then they're being hypocritical, and I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to participate in self-deception. I'm not going to participate in that which is contrary to the created order of God.

And I won't do that. And so I'm a duogenderist. I'm going to look that word up again, see if it ever shows up. Let's see. Because I've got to make sure I'm not using the term duogenderist. Let's see if someone else hasn't already grabbed it.

Oh, man. Oh, you know what? Someone already got it. So let me try this one. I think there's another way to do it. Man, they got that one, too. Oh. Okay, yeah. Duo and die. Okay, I'm going to come up with a word.

Hey, if you've got any ideas, what would be a good term to identify, to coin, and say? Because we identify, yes. So there you go. Oh, man. You know, our world is just so self-deceived, self-absorbed, humanistic, as it just rolls, runs, rushes down towards the abyss and wants others to join him.

Pentecostalism, Mormonism, and Spiritual Deception

If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. Let's get to you, Beneezer from California. Beneezer, welcome.

You are on the air. Hey, Matt, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Hello? Yes, I hear you. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I was wondering if you well, you said no about the Pentecostal charismatic movement, but he was talking about how it ties in with Mormonism, you know, if you look back into its history.

Like, you know, I know you would talk about how Mormons, you know, they go a lot by their Their feelings, yes. Yeah, so Okay. Yeah, so I was wondering, just by me giving you a background, I know you will probably have to see it, but what would because I came out of the Pentecostal church.

I didn't know that. Okay. All right.

Now, what's your views on that? What's your views on that? Well, the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic are non-Christian cults, but there are Pentecostal churches that are within orthodoxy, and they just, in my opinion, overemphasize the spiritual gifts.

It doesn't mean they're not saved. It just means that I believe that they're overemphasizing those things. So it just depends on which Pentecostal group you're associated with in it. Okay.

Okay, okay, okay. All right. Also, I have another question. You know that Doesn't the Bible talk about how homosexuality is a crime against nature?

It's a yeah, it doesn't use that phrase, but it is because it's opposing that which is natural, the natural function of the woman, the natural function of the man, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Romans 1.

Romans 1. Okay. And so isn't I do have adultery. Can you hold on? We've got a break.

Okay. We've got a break coming up. There's the music. So just hold on, and then we'll stay on the line, and we'll get back with you. Okay, buddy? Hold on, man. Hey, folks. We have Ebenezer waiting, and if you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

We have three open lines. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking a call. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all I have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

All right, let's get back on here with Ebenezer. There you are, buddy. Go ahead. Yeah. Can you hear me? Sure.

Yeah, I hear you fine, man. Yeah. So, also, doesn't the Word talk about how sins done against the body are even worse? Worse than, like, you have adultery and sexual sin, for the most part.

Some sins are worse than others. Homosexuality is one of those sins that judgment is received right away. You're given over to it. But it doesn't mean that such people who commit those sins are irredeemable.

God saves people. He saves people all the time. And what we have to do is just trust in what He's done. And you can be forgiven. Oh, okay.

But what about, like, wouldn't that go against Calvinism, in a sense? No. Because when you talk about God so loved the world, like, every believing one, right?

Yeah, it means all the one believing. That's what it means. John 3, 16. But you have to understand that we don't understand how it works. We don't understand how God chooses people, how He works with people, how He redeems people.

We just don't know. And my interpretations of Scripture are mine. And I say to people, you know, semi-regularly, you need to check and make sure that what I'm saying is correct with Scripture. I believe I'm right, but I also believe that I could be wrong.

I don't put all my eggs in a five-point basket. So I say there are certainly things about Scriptures I cannot fathom. I think that Reformed theology answers more questions than any other theological perspective.

That's my opinion. All right. So now what? Well, it means then that, you know, we know that God elects and God predestines, but we don't know the criteria of His election or His predestination. We don't know how it works that the more we pray, apparently the more people have been chosen by God for salvation.

I don't know how that works. I just know it does. As my friend Bill McIver said, you know, we're in sales, not production. So our job is simply to just rely on Christ and to trust in Him and let all the other stuff be what belongs to God.

Okay? Yeah.

One thing real quick. So in Psalms when David talks about God's enemies, right, so who would be under that category? Enemies?

Well, I don't know. I just have to find out by reading which it is. You know, in Psalm 7 -5, let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it and let them trample my life down, lay them in the dust. Psalm 8, to make the enemy and the revengeful cease.

The enemy has come.

But what about when Judas is carried?

Didn't Jesus call him a devil? Yeah. In John 6, he referred to him as someone who would betray him, who was an unbeliever from the beginning. Okay? So that's what we know about that. So let me ask you, how come you're asking these questions?

What's up?

No, I'm just trying to respond to you because I feel that, you know, like people can be possessed, right? People, but not Christians. Yeah, and those would be considered God's enemies, right? I'm sorry, say that again.

I mean, I'm saying like if a person who is possessed will be considered as an enemy of God, right?

Well, there's a generic sense in which people, all people who are unbelievers are enemies of God in that they do not serve God, they serve themselves and they are against the holiness and truth of God.

So in that sense, yes. But people who are demon possessed, you know, they're possessed and they need prayer and they need deliverance, they need repentance, they need trust in Christ. So do you think that,.

Were the Pharisees Christians or possessed individuals?

I can't say if they were possessed or not, but they could have just been hypocritical people. Not all Pharisees were because some, we believe, came to Christ, you know, Nicodemus did. And so, you know, we can't give a particular universal statement about all of them, okay?

So what's going on? How come you're asking these questions? Just curious, because you're... I mean, just my... That's all right. You seem to be contemplating something. So what's going on?

Just my past, you know. Because I had family members, you know, growing up in the Pentecostal, Pentecostal. Which Pentecostal was it? It was called like a new... It was called New Testament Church. I mean, it was a global church.

So like you had... It started in India. It started in India and it had a lot of the... Like a lot of... If you watch the video with Justin Peters... What does he say about it? I mean, like a lot of the, you know, divine healing...

Okay, well, hold on.

What does Justin Peters say about it? Does he condemn them or does he not?

Oh, he was saying that, you know, they're charlatans, they're, you know... Well, I know Justin.

Yeah, I know Justin. He's a good guy and so I'll trust his judgment on that. So here's what I'm thinking, is that you were exposed early, apparently, to a cult and there's probably some... Or there might be, I should say, there might be some demonic attachments and stuff in your families and things like that and that you've suffered from it and you just need to trust in Christ and work through that.

It's doable. Are you there? I mean... I mean... All right, all right. Thank you. Thank you. Well, okay. We can talk more if you want. There's nobody waiting. But, you know, I just want to make sure you're okay.

Oh, he went. That's all right. Yeah, something else is going on there and I'm not trying to psychoanalyze him and all that kind of stuff, but, you know, something else is going on. So that's okay. One thing at a time, a little bit at a time.

Hopefully I didn't upset him with that idea of attachments. Let me kind of clarify what I mean by that. We live in a spiritual world as well as a physical one. And the spiritual world is very real. We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities.

Ephesians 6, 12. All right, so when family members are involved in false religions like Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses or Christadelphianism or Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, that because they're not ultimately serving the true and living God, therefore they are ultimately subservient to non-godly forces.

Now there's varying degrees that this can happen in varying groups. And so sometimes people who are in them can give themselves over to these kinds of groups wholeheartedly. They will often be in a group like this and one of the ways of recognizing their utter deceit, self-deceit is when they bear witness of the church.

The church is true. It's all about the church and everything in the church. And this is obviously false because Jesus never said to do that. He says, you know, the Spirit bears witness of Him, not a church.

And so this is one of the preliminary signs. So anyway, I've got to be careful how I say this stuff because I don't want people to misconstrue it because it's so easy to misconstrue what I say as if, you know, your second cousin is a Mormon or in the way international, whatever, or a Christian scientist and therefore is praying for your salvation and they're summoning demons on you and therefore everything that you have happening around you is demonic.

No, no, no, not like that. People often will run with the ball way too far. No, no, no. I'm just saying that we have to be careful. We need to be in prayer and we need to pray for those people who are lost in those false religions and we need to lift them up.

And sometimes just by praying for them in the false religions, there are, well, you know, the spirits don't like that. You know, the spiritual side of things on the bad side, they don't want you to pray.

They can, you know, if God lets them, they can make your life a little bit uncomfortable. You know, you get a flat tire for no reason or, you know, sometimes you just get more irritable. You know, there's different things that happen, okay?

And so I'm being very generic here on purpose. So what you have to do, oh, I had a yawn there. What you have to do is wait for me after the break because there's the music. And if any of you have had experiences like this or have questions about this kind of stuff, give me a call and then we can talk some more about it.

But I'm trying to be as generic as possible while also helping people. So it's not easy to do. So may the Lord bless you all, all right? Hey, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Spiritual Warfare, the Occult, and Trusting Christ

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. So if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276. Now my voice is a little raspy. I've got a little bit of a chest cold, head cold kind of thing going on.

It started last night. No big deal, but here we are. So we have nobody waiting right now and feel free to give me a call. So the reason I'm talking about this kind of demonic stuff is it needs to be talked about.

And before I was a Christian, I was involved in the occult. And I've seen things materialize. I've been physically touched. I mean, I've seen stuff. No drugs, no alcohol, no sleep deprivation, no medicines.

I mean, in seances, in stuff, and seeing manifestations. And so these things are real, not because I've experienced them, but because the Bible says they are. And I remember when I was involved in the occult, trying to contact the dead.

Oh man, the foolishness. Trying to contact the dead, trying to contact the spiritual realm, astral projection, seeing auras, and things like that. I was directly involved with it. And now I'm delivered.

And I remember, this is odd, I remember when I was in that, that things of darkness were appealing to me. Back in the 70s, it was black lights and certain kinds of heavy metal and certain kinds of music and dress.

And these things were appealing. And then when I got saved, it was instantly changed. And those things didn't appeal anymore. They were done. There is a connection with all of this stuff. But what we want to do is serve God.

What we want to do is be Christians. Okay, so what do you do if you have family members, friends who say they're praying for you, and they're Mormons, and they're Jehovah's Witnesses, or Christian scientists, or whatever, and you know they're in a false religion, and they're praying.

What they're ultimately doing is praying to their false God and their false saviors, their false beliefs are guiding them. And they are, without knowing it, they are promoting and accessing demonic forces.

And so this is why they're self-deceived, because they're not submitting to the Word of God. And they submit the Word of God to their feelings. And then they say their feelings are from God. And they do all this stuff, but they don't really listen to the Word of God.

They say it's corrupted, or their prophet or prophetess, or their church, or their magisterium, whoever it is, has to properly interpret it. It's all the same thing. It's all the same thing. It's just a slight variation.

So what do you do to defend yourself? You just pray. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to lock your doors at night and put garlic around the doorknob so the bad spirits don't come in, all that kind of nonsense.

What you do is you just talk to the Lord Jesus. And you ask Jesus to be with you, and you give yourself to the Lord. And you ask Jesus to do your battles. And you trust in Him. It's as simple as that.

It's not hard. You don't have to worry. I know a lot of people are emotionally needy in different areas, emotionally vulnerable in different areas, and are unsure about a lot of things. A lot of people have been damaged through their history and are unsure.

And so when these kinds of topics come up, they sometimes occupy a less than healthy place in their worldview, their psyche, their emotional makeup. And let me just tell you what the Scripture says. Just rely on Christ.

Don't worry about those other things. Don't disregard them, but that's not your primary concern. Your primary concern is to follow Jesus, to love Jesus, to speak of Christ, and just trust Him. And ask Him to reveal to you anything that you might be doing that might not be right, and just repent of it, turn to Him, and just move forward.

And you go to church, and if you need to, you talk to the elders of the church about it, and they'll help you. That's all. It's not that difficult. I don't want you to worry, and I don't want you to be preoccupied with this stuff.

Let's get to Martin from Virginia. Martin, welcome. You are on the air.

Balaam, Spiritual Blindness, and God’s Protection

Hey, Matt. Thanks for taking my call, and God bless your ministry. Thanks. So, I mean, you had me kind of going. I was laughing a little bit with the garlic around the doorknob. Everybody knows that garlic needs to be hung a little bit higher on the door if it's going to work.

So, I got your point. You made a point about that there was a time before you were saved. You know, if you do a timeline in your life, and you said that you were involved in some stuff, I think there was a color where you kind of correlated this, but going back, and maybe Charlie can help out with this, but I don't know if it was Numbers or Exodus where an angel of God had a sword, and I think it was Balaam, where the angel was hidden, but the ass was not.

You know, the donkey or the ass was not. Yeah, yeah. So, that kind of correlates into this where in our physical realm, we're blinded by so much. We're physical human beings, and we're only, you know, if God allows us to see ourselves, or the angel, which angels are messengers of God's Word and God's will to see them and to work with them and to carry God's message through.

So, I thought that was kind of curious where the angel allowed the ass to see the angel, but not Balaam. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right or not. Yeah.

Yeah, and in fact, I wrote an article not too long ago about that very thing, but yeah, and God often allows animals to see things because he did right there when we can't, but you know what we're trying to do is trust Christ.