Cultish: Leaving Hinduism | Ex Brahmin Tells All, Pt. 2

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00:53

Welcome to part two. We are talking about Hinduism with our good friend Sandeep. Andrew thank you for joining us.

00:59

I'll be joining you soon up in Utah but let's just jump right into it. So you were talking about all the different aspects of Hinduism the different temples that Shiva the practices and we're going to kind of get in those and compartmentalize pieces.

01:14

But what was the turning point for you as far as like your testimony. You grew up in Hinduism but all of a sudden something changed.

01:23

You had something you've never done before. Kind of take us into that if you could. So it all started in in the year 2015

01:32

October I remember. So I just you know you're young you you know you messed up your life you know what young people go through you know.

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So I was a very very prominent guy in my friend circle and so and at the same time

01:50

I was very religious. Shiva was my you know my God you know.

01:57

Anyways so in 2015 I never just to let everyone I never been to a church before in my life.

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Never. Never stood near a church even 200 feet near. Never. So in 2015

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I felt like going to a church. Now I don't know why something came inside me.

02:16

I should visit a church. And then so in a metro station I saw a picture of a cathedral you know.

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It's a 170 years old cathedral. So I was like okay you know.

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So I walk inside this church for the first time in my life and then so I stood at the back.

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You know I didn't go in the front. I mean this is not my thing. I'm a Hindu. So I stood at the back and I was listening to this guy.

02:45

He was sharing some things which I never heard before. It was about like God loves you so much that he's ready to forgive you no matter what you have done in your past.

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Even yesterday what you have done. If you want to start again you know he loves you that much you know.

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He cares about you. In Hinduism there is no there is no verse which says that God is telling to a repentant sinner you know.

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Someone who wants to restart his life that you know your karmas are forgiven and I love you.

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There's nothing no verse. We never grow up hearing these things in Hinduism. We always believe reincarnation the samsara.

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We believe in that we will again take birth and we are Brahmins because we did something really good in our previous birth.

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But so that's why in Chandogya Upanishad I was saying in the Vedas it says you're born as Brahmin. So anyway

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I was listening to the guy and he was saying all of these things which I never heard before and I stood at the back and I really liked it.

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So this guy later on we became friends and he started inviting me to evening service.

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But I was still skeptical about the whole thing. But I was at the same time excited and later on I found out that he is also a former

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Hindu Brahmin from the Brahmin caste. So I keep on going you know to his place and wherever he calls me you know every

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Sunday different churches you know I was just excited. So he gives me a

04:25

Bible for the first time in my life. I had a Bible in my hand. I remember going back to my home and my you know everyone by the time of six seven months

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I believe everyone now inside the home is already seeing me going to church and fascinated about Jesus.

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But after seven months when I went back to home my father saw a

04:51

Bible in my bag and that was a time when all the problems started.

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He saw a Bible in my bag so he asked me what is this. I said this is a Bible it's just a book.

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He said no this is a Bible. What is it doing in your bag? It's too much you know you're going church like kind of every

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Sunday. What are you trying to do? What will the society say? What will the relatives say?

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We are Brahmins. We are not from a lower caste. We have a temper.

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What is going on? And he was really getting angry and I remember that that evening

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I still remember very clearly it was my mom my father my sister we were sitting in a room and we were having heated discussion me specifically with my dad and he hit me and he was angry he hit me

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I was like wow so that was the time you know he started telling me you know

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Hinduism is the oldest religion you know. Christianity is just a new religion.

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It's just 2 ,000 years old. I mean what's going on? I mean you like you know Hinduism is a pagan ideology.

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You believe in everything kind of you believe in sun you believe in moon it all comes from the Vedas you believe in rivers cows so Hindus have no problem in with Jesus or with Muhammad with any other gods but the problem started when

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I accepted Jesus as my only Lord and Savior and that didn't happen until I opened the

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Hindu scriptures. I started comparing it with the Bible because you know I was getting questions from my family members from my mother's side you know what's going on you know we are the oldest so that's the time when

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I started going through the scriptures and the Bible and I saw huge huge differences huge you know one says karma you know you you're you it's a bondage the samsara cycle you know you just take birth and again and again and whereas the

06:59

Bible says you know grace which you don't deserve you know the meaning of grace but still

07:05

God loves you yeah well what would you say because you mentioned earlier you said he had written when you were talking this person from this cathedral church they were talking to you about the gospel and Jesus and grace and he said he had reservations or skepticisms what specifically were you skeptical about in contrast to what was being presented to you versus your entire upbringing yeah

07:25

I was skeptical about I don't belong from I don't belong in this thing you know so this is just I like so I have to have some safe distance but I don't know

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I was just getting drawn to it and here's one more thing I had no encounter with any missionary or you know many

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Hindus would say someone gave a bag of rice you know this is a common thinking a lot of missionaries they accuse

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Christians back in India Christianity is like five percent we are minorities you know so 80 percent is

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Hindu so many Hindus they accuse Christians that you know they fool the the the poor people by giving a bag of rice you know mother

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Teresa you know she she converted many Hindus by giving taking care of the poor yeah here's a question what's wrong in that even what's wrong in that even no

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Hindus does that even yeah no Hindus take care of their lower caste the poor lower caste who are only meant to have a job like cleaning bathrooms you know cleaning sewage the drains and you know all the dirty jobs like after you know burning dead bodies you know a

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Brahmin doesn't do that a Brahmin you will never see burning dead bodies that's not the job of Brahmins we our job was to be a priest you know to have the highest position in every

08:43

Hindu temple if you go you will see Brahmins no one from the Shudra caste a priest in that in that congregate you know in that temple so yeah interesting if you're go ahead

08:55

Andrew is the basic view uh in India of Christians like people that are uh less than or from a younger religion like almost like the the the let's say the the highest class's nose is stuck up to the

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Christian is that kind of how it works and also when you met in the church was an actual building are there actual physical church buildings out there or people like kind of secretly meeting in homes how does that work yeah uh so uh that that's a very nice question

09:24

I would say I'm in uh so I belong from I I you know Calcutta is near my hometown so over there you'd see many old cathedrals like really a church building huge uh so uh that's the place where I first uh got to know about um

09:42

Christ you know uh so no missionaries involvement I never met a missionary we didn't lack a bag of rice you know we we my family was not that poor so uh uh but but uh uh secret churches are in many places in India in the most conservative

09:59

Hindu state in India is the Uttar Pradesh where one of I mean one of my closest friend who is also a former

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Hindu uh he is uh like he is serving in Uttar Pradesh uh where the chief minister is

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Yogi Adityanath and he's a very Hindu nationalist guy you know the prime minister is also spreading

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Hindu nationalism in India so I remember I was talking to him a week ago and he was telling me that you know a lot of Hindus local

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Hindus they came to him and they said we know where you guys stay and you guys are

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Christians right you're having church meetings right evening services so they they so he was telling me they are really uh they like they don't go outside in the evening like especially the women no one goes after eight nine o 'clock outside because you know they threaten

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Christians if you if you leave Hinduism that's the point that's the problem when you choose

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Jesus as only lord and savior that's the problem and India ranks a lot of people

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I think don't know that India ranks 10th or 11th I believe in the most persecuted countries in in the world for Christians you know so that side of Hinduism no one knows about you don't get to see that a lot in the cities but in when you go out from the cities outskirts you get to see

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Christians not getting like not seen as equal you know in the society yeah

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I mean that's fascinating just because from the west they view India as kind of this sort of sacred area of like mystique and also a lot of syncreticity of far and also just uh different syncretism as far as different religions and sort of a lot of peace and tranquility amongst like the spirituality within India where there's like the gurus at the spirituality place there but in reality there's a lot of specifically intolerance towards Christians specifically and you see that also too like there's a lot of persecutions of Muslims as well too in India yeah yeah

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I would say this there are anti -conversion laws if anyone research about this in India there are anti -conversion laws in many states in India like Uttar Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Bihar these there are some more other states where there are anti -conversion laws specifically for Christians actually you know because we spread the gospel and people like the gospel you know because it's something which they never hear

12:43

I never hear growing up you know something like grace you know we grow up hearing about samsara you know karmic cycle and all so that's why in Uttar Pradesh for example if someone a

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Hindu accuses a Christian that he you know forcefully tried to convert me you know by giving money just false accusation you know someone just going to a police station and saying this

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Christian you know this guy you know bribed me and if he like just a false accusation he will be taken to the and then later on there are many many

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Christians inside the prison for years you know but you don't get to see that in the west you know here you see

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Hare Krishnas you know dancing around on road and yeah so much of freedom you know right so going back into your story then you're looking at a lot of sort of conflict of interest at least for yourself where you're realizing that you're going to this church you've got a bible you're being sort of you're considering Christianity and this message of grace in contrast to the continuous cycle of reincarnation but also just a lot of accolades of being in the highest caste system and then obviously you know like being in a position where your father strikes you regardless of whatever religious backing you're from like that just the concept of that for anybody is like terrifying i know i've ministered to people who've been experienced that as well too but that that was that was that kind of like the catalyst then for you to start really kind of wrestling through okay is it is it truly is it truly

14:15

Christianity is it truly Hinduism is that kind of when you started like really kind of examining the claims of Christianity versus Hinduism that was the evening i i believe when i really started to focus on uh comparing

14:29

Hinduism and Christianity that was the time because it's been already a year now uh by that time like 15 to 16 i would say a year and already so many people are questioning me why leave

14:42

Hinduism we are the oldest you know we are so peaceful you know look what the Britishers they did to India you know they are

14:50

Christians right look what the Christians did to India you know yeah uh so again there that's a whole misunderstanding you know and obviously they were bad people but there were a lot of good missionaries who built hospitals the first hospital the first school in India the first old age home in India were all founded by Christian missionaries so that was the time i started really digging into the

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Hindu scriptures comparing it with with the Bible and then huge differences you know evidence for the

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Hindu gods was part of that study too in hopes that maybe the Lord might convert even your father like having answers uh to him because he'd probably ask you very tough questions i'd assume yes i i would say this my mom is uh already in the halfway to Christ uh she reads a native language

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Bible uh my dad is still struggling you know Hinduism is a pagan religion where you believe everything so he is he he don't like he's not angry on me anymore but he i'm sure he really hopes that which you know my son comes back to Hinduism you know because again he's surrounded with Hindus right you you are from the

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Brahmin caste not just a lower caste you left everything you gave up everything yeah what's up everybody it's the super sleuth here letting you know that you can go to shopcultish .com

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today and get your exclusive cultish merch talk to you later guys and when so you started comparisoning so what were some of the initial contrasts that you saw between what you grew up with and as you began to compare the

16:40

Hindu scriptures versus the Bible or what were some of the main differences that you saw the the main differences which which i found were like uh you know the the main two i would say was you know reading the life of Krishna at the same time comparing it with with Jesus you know you know uh so uh you know

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Krishna you know we we get to see in the scripture Bhagavata Purana where is uh like you know stealing uh women clothing when they're taking shower in the river like when they're taking uh bath in the river

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Krishna is uh stealing the clothes of these uh girls you know so that's like with Jesus never did you know all of these differences and then in um in the

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Bhagavad Gita which is the part of Mahabharata here you get to see you know there is a fight between cousins

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Kauravas and Pandavas over uh over a kingdom called Hastinapur and they they just want to fight uh like to who like who gonna win um over this kingdom and so Krishna is trying to convince

17:50

Arjuna that you should fight this war you know to to establish truth on earth you know and Arjuna is saying no i don't want to fight because i know these people they are my relatives i know their faces you know i'm ready to forgive you know i'm you know let them take the kingdom you know but Krishna is continuously trying to uh tell

18:11

Arjuna you should fight the the war you should fight the battle you know trying to convince and then i started to see

18:18

Jesus you know i mean so much uh different you know uh even to the point when

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Jesus was getting caught uh one of his disciple you know cut the ear of the the of the god who came to catch

18:33

Jesus right and what did Jesus do he healed the ear of of that person right and he said whoever lives with the sword dies with the sword yeah that's a huge difference i mean

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Jesus had followers thousands you know so he could have did the same thing like Krishna you know the

18:52

Hare Krishna's you know but here is the difference you and i started to see all of this Shiva you know i read

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Shiva Puran and then i see Shiva you know worshiping phallus you know and all of these stories you know which is horrible like ah it's so dirty you know and then i see

19:11

Jesus's life how when he met you know woman and when he met woman how he talked and how he behaved with them you know um you know i'm the living well you know whoever drinks from uh my cup no one uh becomes thirsty again you know and the way he

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Jesus treated a woman and uh Shiva treated woman is huge differences will be the difference there i think of like john for like as i think of like john for women at the will be a prime example um will be the contrast between that and like in the hindu scriptures specifically uh for for example like the shiv puran uh shiva is in the forest and then there are wives of the priest like the disciples of shiva i would say and she was naked ashes all over his body and the wives goes and starts to hug shiva because he was looking probably very handsome and the the disciples gets angry because their wives are running after shiva and so what shiva uh so the um the disciples they curse shiva you know to a god by the way and the curse even worked so that his phallus may fall on the ground so the phallus fell on the ground and and it caused destruction all over so the disciples they went to another god and they were like you know what should we do this is causing a disturbance all over the world and so the gods say that look for a feminine you know like a body organ you know and it's just so nasty you know all of this story is very explicit yeah yeah but when i open bible we don't get to see these things you know i mean jesus you know look at jesus that's that's the whole point look at jesus what jesus did and how he behaved with women huge difference the second most thing which which i saw when i was you know i was in middle of hinduism christianity you know one year already in jesus but still everywhere i'm going i'm saying i'm a hindu i just believe i just like jesus i didn't say i'm a christian even after one year so i was still struggling battling you know with all these thoughts the second most important thing which i saw was the evidence for the gods let's look at the evidence let's look the evidence for bible and for the vedas and here's the most important thing we have so many manuscripts for for the bible for the new testament p52 all these papyrus you know yeah uh and then so p52 is like comes within some decades you know after jesus's death you know and then we see for the vedas we don't get anything uh until the 15th century a .d

22:04

yeah that's vedas are the most important scripture for for hinduism you know and the earliest evidence the manuscript we have for vedas comes from just like five six hundred years ago so this these are the huge differences you know evidence for krishna's life there's none there's nothing like is there any inscription is there any uh because you know any hindu if you ask they will say krishna is like five thousand years old so is there any stone or a book or a paper which papyrus some something which shows that okay here is krishna's name mentioned there's nothing yeah there's nothing so i started to see this the evidence for christianity is like uh huge comparing to other world views you know and so these these two were the were the most important thing which strengthened my faith on christianity yeah don't they also say that uh sanskrit's the oldest language yeah they say sanskrit is the oldest language you know um so there are like hindi uh bengali um most of the indian languages came out from sanskrit but again is if sanskrit is the oldest language what what what evidence do we have for sanskrit and do we have any anything written do we have any manuscript for sanskrit uh do we have any any inscriptions but we have nothing going before the second or third century bc we have nothing for sanskrit but the greek language has older evidence goes back to like the 14th century you know we have like clear some tablets for the language of greece which is way older than sanskrit and like also is there something within specifically within hinduism in their worldview when it comes to language of sanskrit is there um do they believe there's some sort of like divine nature of origin when it comes to like sanskrit that's something divine behind that language like there's you look at like for example like the tetragrammaton you look at hebrew like names of god and like yahweh and stuff like that but when it comes to like the nature of the language of sanskrit they believe there's something sort of divine or sort of esoteric within like how it's written or how or the origins of it yes so hindus believe it's a common belief in india that sanskrit is the language of the gods so the gods they spoke in sanskrit you know and from sanskrit and other languages came the most of the vedas the sanskrit which we which the hindus they they talk that's the devanagari script it came out from the older version of sanskrit so sanskrit is seen as the language of the god yeah yeah what about in in terms of like a cosmology did you ever think anything about that like genesis one in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth and did any like comparison uh to the the indian belief yes uh yeah i like this question i mean when i was reading the puranas you know i was looking for the creation story of hinduism like in genesis we get to see you know god said let there be light you know and and how the creation begins you know uh but in matzah puran it's one of the major puran uh among all the puranas uh we get to see that uh the darkness uh over there when i saw when i was reading matzah puran i started to see that uh in the scripture it says that the darkness came from the the the darkness and the light came from uh the same god uh brahma is the creator and there were demons created by god and i i started thinking the satan they are called in in the sanskrit term asuras you know uh demons in english we call demons in sanskrit we call asuras and someone who doesn't follow god's way you know so these people they came out of the gods and they were not listening to gods you know uh to the hindu gods and they used to be more powerful than uh hindu gods during the night time so i started to see this difference i mean how can uh demons be more powerful than uh the gods you know i see a huge difference here like i was telling you mohini you know the female avatar of the male god vishnu you know whom she was trying to continuously hug uh over there we get to see that mohini changed uh like vishnu changed his male form to feminine because female form to wean over the asuras the demons you know so you know the god is trying so hard you know to wean over the demons you know so this is the like the creation story which i started to see in hinduism like i started to read the demons are more powerful than gods you know in certain period in the day so uh that doesn't sound good you know yeah um so what what so you're wrestling through all this and were there what were there any other particular topics when it came to just objections and kind of like wrestling through this like how long did this process take as a whole um uh the whole thing uh even to this uh day you know i i i study hinduism yeah and the more i study the more confident i become on christianity my my faith in jesus increases more you know yeah because even to this day my dad my mom they gave up hope on me there you know it's too late it's been eight years now uh but uh when like after their one year like you know when i started to really get dive into hinduism uh and when i came to america first i started to see a lot of westerners here you know so fascinated about hinduism and so that would i mean that was a time which really pushed me to study more hinduism you know and i started to get into debates with my own family members from my mother's family side you know they came to my home you know a few of my family members gave me huge books to read about hindu monks you know and how hinduism is is the only path so i used to get into debates uh often you know uh asking them what's the evidence do you have for uh krishna you know or for the bhagavad gita is all about war so any hindu who is uh you know who calls himself hindu believes that the war mahabharata kurukshetra it's a war uh which is all about mahabharata the that war really happened but do we have any evidence so i used to get into these debates often yeah yeah see it took a year like two three years i was very deep into this while studying overnight like till three o 'clock morning reading the hindu scriptures the puranas and caste system comes from from rigveda book 10 you know people started saying no people invented caste system you know what what does the what does the scripture say specifically about the caste system like chapter and verse yeah rigveda in the book 10 in the mandala 10 it says that uh the god vishnu you know from his mouth the brahmins came so that's why brahmins are the highest you know if you see a human body the mouth is like on the top and then from his lower a little lower body part from the the the shoulder chest area from here the the kshatriyas came and then from the thigh the the thigh part the vishas came and then from the feet of vishnu the shudras came the caste so you see it comes straight out of the rigveda book mandala 10 yeah it comes out and then we have chandogya upanishad which mentions another lower caste which are called chandalas chandogya upanishad book five it literally says based on your karma your samsara cycle depends on so you become brahmin or kshatriya or if you have done the more horrible things you become a worm or snake you know some kind of like animal like lower category animal or you're born as a lower most caste chandalas yeah um andrew i'm gonna let you ask this question i i see you're just your mind being blown over there when it comes you obviously we have the slogan on our uh show and t -shirt that's popular via botnet shop coldish .com

30:43

but uh bad theology hurts people so you're so while sandeep is talking about chapter and verse about how where the caste system originates from and just for you andrew when you look at just sort of you know the episodes we did with uh daniel stephen kearney and kind of the culture in india like where do you where do you see that caste system being taken place what questions would you have for sandeep specifically about how that plays out uh like in india how is it how is the how is the how is a practical played out what would come to mind with a question you'd want to ask sandeep yeah thinking about the gospel and how god saved your soul uh how does the gospel uh essentially destroy any fundamental thoughts on the caste system right because when christ sets you free you are free indeed it seems like the gospel is in opposition to any form of caste system like what was going on in your mind like you said uh for a while you still said you were hindu but you were going to a christian church like when did the gospel permeate your life so much to where you're like i'm a christian and then your your worldview shifted your paradigm shifted even within thinking about a caste system versus the gospel yeah uh man it was uh tough for me it was really hard uh i lost all of my like my friends for sure more than friends you know you can lose friends but then when you start losing your family members you know that that's the most hardest thing you know when your mom and dad starts hearing from other people from your own family actually that you know you you you both must have done some kind of wrong thing that's why your son you know you know converted to christianity and then you know after they you know went out from our home you know my relatives you know when me and my dad mom we are sitting you know they used to really feel sad i used to see that sad thing in their eyes you know it is it was really painful for me but but as i kept on reading the bible you know as i kept on reading the gospel you know and seeing jesus's life you know uh how he lived on this earth and uh you know what he did uh and the evidence for uh his life you know um that was something like i cannot deny you know i cannot be ignorant you know because i was trying hard to to just be a good hindu at the same time you know you just go church but uh because i was telling my friends and everyone that i'm still a hindu you know i i was still wearing that thread the white upanana thread you know which the brahmins every brahmins every priest wear that huge you explain like visually what that is like what they wear and what it represents we saw that they were wearing that the temple yesterday right yes yes uh absolutely the priest has to wear the upanana upanana is like where you be uh you shave your hairs uh you be bald and then you have orange like the the clothes which the priests they wear the orange clothing the saffron clothing it is called uh so uh you know in that picture uh which i still have you know i have that white thread around my body and then every time you go before sleep or if going to a to the bathroom you know uh you chant uh the uh mantra the

34:24

Gayatri mantra which is you know all this uh mantra you chant so uh so i was still wearing the thread but uh the truth in christianity uh really blew my mind you know i used to be awake overnight and just trying hard to uh maybe uh you know just hindu that hinduism should win you know in evidence i was trying hard but the evidence for christ was like like blowing my mind you know the manuscripts is like coming after decades which is still there in in the british uh library you know and for the vedas is nothing it's like coming of 2000 years the first manuscript who knows what happened in 2000 years in that time you know they all say the bible was changed what about this 2000 years right you know uh this huge evidence you know and then the differences in the gospel uh uh which literally doesn't talk about caste doesn't talk about uh there is brahmin or there is different caste uh it says that you know god so loved the world he gave his begotten son you know uh whosoever whosoever believes in him shall find eternal life you know and so do this you did this before the podcast so you just said john 3 16 what what's your so what's your native language uh it's bengali uh that's what i speak at home but also the most uh spoken language in india is also hindi okay uh so yeah how do you say so how do you say john 3 16 in hindi uh you say like uh johanna sola and you say uh is wow they go to eternal life and they have eternal life yeah yeah

36:33

And that's like, dude, it's like, there's something about, like, hearing the gospel, like, in another language.

36:40

Like, I got saved on the mission field, like, I've got maybe, yeah, we all, like, it's, like, hearing that is always, like, gives me, it's so cool to hear.

36:47

Yeah, my mother is in the Bengali language, which is also, came out from Sanskrit, by the way.

36:55

Sanskrit is a mother language, came out Hindi, Bengali, Marathi, Telugu, you know, all of these other

37:02

Indian languages. There's no official language in India. There are many languages. You go west, there's

37:08

Marathi. You go southern part of India, they speak Telugu. You go east, they speak

37:13

Bengali, a lot of people, millions of people. It's the fifth most spoken language on earth.

37:20

So, in Bengali, it is called Johon Tiner Sholo. So, yeah.

37:26

Oh, that's how you say John 316? In my mother tongue, Johon Tiner Sholo. So, when you said

37:32

Masi, like, that part of what you read, like, what word is that? Yeshu Masi.

37:37

Yeshu Masi is the Hindi term for Jesus Christ. I had a feeling that was the case.

37:42

Yeah, I think when I've heard Daniel, Stephen Kearney, brother Daniel, who's been on the podcast before, and I've seen videos of him doing evangelism,

37:52

I see him say that word a lot. Yeah. So, I figured I put two and two together that maybe that's what you're referring to.

37:57

That's awesome. For Muslims, they call Isa. Yeah. It's a little similar, Yeshu, Yesa, Isa.

38:04

Isa Masi. Yeah. So, what was it like for you once, you know,

38:09

God saved your soul? Coming from a caste society, like, was there a point at time when you looked at someone in a lower caste and you were like, man,

38:18

I'm just like them now? Like, you know, you said when you were younger, you would boast in a sense that you're the highest class, but when the gospel saves you, when

38:27

God saves you, were you looking at people in lower class now and you're being like, my heart breaks for them and I want them to know

38:34

Jesus and I'm just like them, a sinner condemned before God without Christ?

38:40

Yeah. After like, after 2015, like, after like two, three years,

38:46

I would say, I was not baptized until 2018. So, I was really struggling, you know, with a lot of things.

38:54

So, it didn't just happen overnight, you know, 15, 16, that's one year, 17 and 18.

39:00

So, after like three years, I was baptized. So, when

39:06

I was baptized, you know, like around 17, I would say, you know, before baptism also, like, things started changing my worldview, you know, the way

39:14

I used to think, you know. I opened my, you know, my

39:19

Upanayana, the white thread, which I used to wear, the Brahmins, you know. That's the symbol, you know, like, you know, that's a symbol.

39:26

You show that on road or on street, people know that you are, you're a Brahmin caste, you know. So, I opened that.

39:32

I kept somewhere in my house. And my father was really unhappy about that, you know, because he still wears that.

39:39

You know, to this very day, he wears that Brahmin, the priestly white thread. So, he was,

39:46

I'm sure he was not happy. So, I kept that. And everything started to change.

39:52

And even my neighbor, you know, who was my neighbor, you know, I touched their feet, you know. They once called me,

39:58

I still remember this. They called me to their house and trying to wean over me for Hinduism again.

40:04

They called my mom and they was like, you know, Sandeep, this is, what you are doing is not good, you know.

40:13

These Christians have fooled you, you know. But I was like, I didn't meet any missionary or anyone, you know.

40:19

So, I started asking them questions. Okay, then answer me, you know, like, what's the evidence for your faith, you know.

40:25

And they have nothing out of just emotions and feelings, you know. And so, yeah, my worldview started to shift entirely like, you know, 180 degree.

40:35

Just everything is changing in your belief system. You see everyone as, you know, made in the equal image of God, you know.

40:44

There's no differences. And I think that's God's worldview, you know.

40:50

Yeah. Yeah. No, man, that's awesome. And then you had a period where you were there. But eventually, when did you move here to the

40:57

United States? I came first in 2017. I was here for like six, seven months.

41:05

Then I went back to India. Then again, I came last year.

41:12

So, yeah. And you primarily lived on the East Coast? Yeah, East Coast mostly. What made you come over here?

41:18

I came over here because of like a job internship.

41:25

So, it's an internship. And then I'm going to a school here also, specializing on language.

41:34

So, yeah. Okay. So, a lot of etymology, ancient languages, stuff like that. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, what did you notice here?

41:41

And we'll go into this in other episodes as well, too. What was like the stark differences between like the

41:47

West, from East to West? When you look at just sort of – it was like the New York, like New Jersey area.

41:53

What year would this have been? This would have been like 2016 or 2015? What was the contrast between like India and the

42:01

West just from like your first impressions? What did you notice the difference of? When I came here first, 17, I was in New Mexico that time.

42:13

For just one month. So, I saw like the freedom.

42:19

The freedom here is really different, you know. Christians in India are not given equal rights, you know.

42:29

They're seen as kind of a lower caste. You don't have your rights over there. I remember, you know, at my workplace,

42:37

I wanted a holiday on Christmas. And I said, I'm the only Christian in this workplace, you know.

42:42

And everyone is a Hindu. So, I just need one day off. And I still remember my manager was like, we are not giving you off.

42:50

And probably he was like, you know, he knew my name, Sandeep. So, it's a

42:55

Hindu name. And then the last name is Agasthi. That's the, you know, the last name always shows which caste you are from, by the way.

43:04

So, yeah, my name is Sandeep. Sandeep can be a lower caste name also. But my last name, which is your father's, you know, your connection, your family connection.

43:14

Agasthi, that's the Kanyakumari Brahmins, you know, from the UP, Uttar Pradesh, from the

43:20

Kanpur area. So, that's a huge thing. So, he didn't give me a holiday. He was like, you can go to anyone, but we're not giving you a holiday.

43:27

And I was the only Christian in that organization, in that workplace. So, when

43:32

I came to the West, I see Hindus having so much of freedom. And that's a good thing, you know. Freedom is always good, you know.

43:38

You have freedom to worship whatever you want. In Hare Krishna's, we see, I go to, you know,

43:43

Hare Krishna Brooklyn and all of these places in Times Square. They dance around all over the street and chanting

43:50

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, you know, all of this chant. And no one goes to them and, you know, asks any question or throws anything.

44:00

But if, when a Christian is preaching the gospel in an Indian market, it's a whole different worldview.

44:05

You know, that's why India ranks 10th in the most persecuted country in the world for Christians, you know.

44:12

You will get stuff thrown at you. And if you really talk about a little bit of Hindu gods, then it's a disaster.

44:20

I mean, then, you know, when I was running my page, I remember when I first opened my page,

44:26

I kept it hidden from many Indian places like Uttar Pradesh.

44:31

I selected, you know, on Facebook, you can select on settings. You can hide your page from some places.

44:39

Because I was like, you know, I studied all of this for this like three, four years. And I'm doing this, you know, night and day.

44:47

I'm awake till three o 'clock sometime. Sleepless night, I'm just, you know, studying these

44:53

Hindu scriptures, Puranas, the Vedas, the Upanishads, and then the Bible. And so I'm really talking about the

45:00

Hindu gods, you know, this was the Shiva deed or Krishna, you know, stealing, you know, sleeping with the woman whom he healed.

45:07

Kubja was a woman whom Krishna healed and he slept with that woman, you know. That's the

45:12

God, you see. And so I see Jesus, you know, how he's treating woman. I mean, it's huge, not literally, huge difference.

45:19

So I'm writing this on my page and I'm studying, I'm starting to get many comments.

45:25

So I had to hide my page because you don't get some freedom, you know. So this is the difference which

45:31

I saw when I came to the U .S. first, the freedom of worship. Yeah.

45:37

Andrew, what questions do you have? What's on your mind? Man, you went through a lot, man.

45:45

You went through so much stuff. I'm just thankful that the Lord has saved your soul. He has you here now and trying to help people understand the differences between Hinduism and Christianity.

45:59

What do you think is the number one main difference between Hinduism and Christianity?

46:06

What would you want a Hindu person to first consider when thinking about the differences between Hinduism and Christianity?

46:14

The most important, the first thing I would say, which I had questions of.

46:20

The most two important question which every Hindu should think is you just compare the lives of Shiva or Krishna or say

46:30

Vishnu with Jesus. Forget everything what church did, what

46:36

Britishers did. You know, a lot of Hindus, they struggle with this thing. They think, OK, this is what

46:41

Christianity is, you know. But you forget all of this. You just study the life of Jesus from the

46:47

Bible and study the life of Shiva from Shiv Puran. And you see the huge difference, you know.

46:53

I mean, Jesus was never naked roaming around in a forest and, you know, woman trying to hug him.

46:58

You know, other wives actually. They were the wives of his disciples, Shiva's disciples, you know, who followed

47:05

Shiva. And then they are cursing Shiva and, you know, his phallus falls down on the ground.

47:10

You know, you see these stories are like horrible, you know. There's so much of differences. Krishna's life, if you see, you know.

47:18

I mean, he stealing the clothes of woman, you know, when they're taking bath in the river and telling them you have to come outside, come out from the river, raising your hands up, you know.

47:31

And the woman are saying, no, we are, you know, naked. So they were trying to cover their bodies, you know. And Krishna trying to make fun out of that, you know.

47:42

He was with his friends. And we get the story in Bhagavata Puran. Anyone who reads it, you get the story there.

47:49

Krishna is with his friends, you know, and they are laughing, you know, about the whole scenario. And then he's sleeping with Kubja, you know, the hunchback woman whom

47:59

Krishna healed. And he went to her house and she wanted to sleep with Krishna.

48:06

And Krishna slept with this woman, you know. All of this is different. Jesus, you don't see that.

48:11

And then the second thing is look at the evidence for Christianity and Hinduism. Look at what evidence does

48:18

Hinduism have. For example, the war, Kurukshetra. Is there any evidence for that war?

48:25

Is there any evidence that Krishna existed? Is there any writing from even say like 2000 years ago?

48:32

Is there any writing where it says that, you know, the oldest evidence that we have for Hinduism is 2nd or 3rd century

48:39

BC. That's it. That's Hinduism. It's over. You know, there's nothing before that.

48:47

And for David's life, you know, King David, we have like a stone which has his name.

48:53

I mean, a huge, huge evidence for the Old Testament and for Christianity.

48:59

Papyrus, we have for New Testament. Yeah. It's another question, too, as we kind of wrap up.

49:05

And what an amazing story. I feel like we've still barely scratched the surface as far as what we're going to get into. And now, you know, you're here.

49:12

You're over on the East Coast. Personally, I believe that the

49:17

West is kind of in complete freefall from any of its historical

49:23

Judeo -Christian values and foundations into neo -paganism. The resurgence of paganism is coming about the

49:31

New Age, the occult. And you see it with all sorts of different cultures, whether it's African occultism, the spirituality, the occultism that's practiced in India through the gurus, through yoga, through the different transcendental meditations.

49:44

You see that in Nordic spirituality, like all the ancient beliefs, like they're all resurfacing and regurgitating.

49:54

Have you noticed just with being in New Jersey and kind of in that area where it is kind of a blue state, like what areas have you seen kind of like the worldview implications?

50:03

We talk about worldviews have consequences. Are there times where you see something here, like in your area, where you're like, wait a minute,

50:09

I see that. That reminds me of India. And maybe that's the implication of like worldview. What comes to mind about that?

50:16

Yeah. I would like to share this thing. So I now live in New Jersey and New Jersey has the highest population for Indians.

50:26

Whoever doesn't know, I mean, New Jersey has like three percent, I think, Indians. That's a survey done like a few years ago.

50:33

So now maybe four percent. Okay. So mostly Indians you'll find in New Jersey. And like in India, you know, if you walk down the street in India, you will see dirt everywhere.

50:45

You will see, you know, like it's not clean and, you know, like a third world country.

50:53

And you get to see that in some parts of New Jersey where I come from. Indian street, you know, there is a street which is named like Indian street because everything over there is like Indian shops and chewing tobacco, you know.

51:07

That's like kind of something which Hindus, they do like, you know, besides smoking or drinking, you chew tobacco.

51:19

So I was shocked when I came to New Jersey first. I started to see these shops selling like all these

51:25

Indian products, you know, like Indian style things, you know. And I see that, you know, it's getting inside the

51:33

West also. You know, people have soft corner for Hinduism. And I remember I would share this, you know, one little thing.

51:41

I was coming with a Hindu, you know. This guy, I know he's a Hindu. He's from the southern part of India. And then we are about to enter the metro station.

51:50

And, you know, you have a metro card. You put your card inside and then you get inside. Right. And so this guy is like, hey, let's just jump over the metro thing.

52:02

Come on, man. Our train is coming. I was like, yeah, but you have to pay, right? You should pay.

52:07

You don't take it free, right? You pay. So the whole world view, you know, like there's like who gonna judge, you know, who is the ultimate judge?

52:18

Even the gods were under judgment. So anyway, you're gonna pay anyway. So there's no like, there's nothing like a fear, you know.

52:28

It's like you do whatever you feel like, you know. My world view changed when I accepted Christ, you know.

52:34

You do the right things. You don't take anything for just granted. You don't steal.

52:41

You don't take free stuff. You work with your hands, you know. In India, you'll see lower caste people.

52:48

They are struggling with their daily life. They work for 10, 12 hours on the field and they paid like $2, $3 for the entire day.

52:56

It's really sad. And that's Hinduism. That's what Hinduism gave to India, you know.

53:01

That's the gift from Hinduism. You know, it's also interesting as we kind of wrap up this part. You know, we're gonna be talking a lot more in further episodes and other content we're doing here.

53:10

Just about the new age practices from east to west. And there's a lot of different variables in play.

53:16

And Andy, you can let me know what you think here. Is that there's a huge distinction between, you know, sacred animals.

53:22

And in this case, in Hinduism, you mentioned that, you know, if you're driving somewhere in India, if you hit a person and you kill them, you might go to jail.

53:29

But, Lord forbid, you are driving somewhere and you hit a cow and kill a cow in a public area.

53:35

You're pretty much in... You're dead. You're done for. Yeah, like if you hit a cow.

53:41

Yeah, but you see a certain zeitgeist and spirit of the age, too, here in the west now. Where you have all these certain people that are advocating against factory farming and animal rights and those sorts of things.

53:52

Yeah, there's sentiments where you want to treat animals with dignity. I think there's an ethic behind that.

53:59

But specifically, while people speak out against animal cruelty, they will look the other way and be silent when it comes to abortion.

54:06

Unlike the murder of babies. You look at, like, PETA when they talk about that. So there's levels almost in which there's an adherence towards the sacredness of animals versus the

54:15

Imago Dei, like us being images of God. And you talk about the two. Like when you understand, when you embrace the gospel, embrace

54:21

Christ as your Lord and Savior, that you saw this distinction where there's no longer this caste system. But it specifically is people that are made in the image of God that are equal.

54:32

But now it's almost in the west where you're seeing almost these weird distinctions between dignity between animals and human beings.

54:39

Almost similar to India. What do you think about that? A lot of that, a lot of that things are creeping into the west.

54:47

You know, like I was telling you, you hit a cow, it's a urine problem. Big problem. If you get, like, if you're driving, you hit a cow, if someone catches you, because, you know, cows are huge in shape, right?

54:59

So your car will be like, I don't know what would be your car's condition after hitting a huge cow.

55:05

So for sure you have to stand. And if people catches you, you are like literally dead.

55:11

They will lynch you to death. But if you hit a person, maybe hardly what will happen is cops will come and they'll take you to prison.

55:19

Maybe the cows are seen as the, it's like next to God. Actually, there are literally scriptures which talks about cows are next to God.

55:27

And that's why when I first ate beef burger, you know, we didn't grow up eating these things.

55:35

In India, McDonald's or KFC, if you go, you don't see beef burgers, all chicken. Everything is chicken.

55:42

All right. So, like, how long, like four or five years ago, I called up my dad.

55:48

I was like, hey, I just have to tell you something. And he's already, you know, you know, my life has changed.

55:56

And the family is all, my family is already into so much of mess. And, you know, all these family members coming to a house, questioning my family.

56:03

So I called up my dad. It was afternoon. I told him, hey, so I'm tasting beef for the first time.

56:10

What do you think? You know, I was like, you know, I shouldn't have called him. Maybe he was like, he was,

56:15

I felt him like he was just numb. He couldn't speak anything. He's like, what are you doing?

56:22

You know, I was even, I was living at this place. And I told this one guy, I tasted beef for the first time.

56:27

And he, like, tried to kick me, you know, because he's a Hindu. He's like, this is, you can't do this thing.

56:35

This is like, in Uttar Pradesh, in a state like Uttar Pradesh, if you tell someone a

56:40

Hindu, I just tasted beef for the first time, you'll be in problem. Like your life, maybe you'll be beaten up badly.

56:48

You'll die. Something like that would happen. Brutally beaten. So he was not happy.

56:54

So a lot of that thing is going in the West. Like there's a trend where people think that, you know, going vegan is like a stylish thing.

57:02

It's a modern trend. It's something very cool, you know. I'm a vegan, you know.

57:09

But here's, even medically, if you see, you know, what you get from meat, you don't get that same thing.

57:16

The protein, you know, the diet, you know, the level of calories and all, you don't get those things from plant -based things.

57:26

You know, even Jesus ate fish, right? So this is, even cows are seen as sacred.

57:34

That doesn't come from the earliest Hindu texts. The earliest books in Hinduism are the

57:40

Vedas, like I was telling before. In the Vedas, cow's meat is like the most important thing to eat, you know.

57:48

Really? In Manusmriti, it's one of the Hindu scriptures where Manu, the writer,

57:56

Manu is saying that whoever doesn't eat meat, he would be born like some 20 times, you know, as a caste, but in a particular caste.

58:06

So you have to eat meat. He's getting angry, you know, Manu over there. We have Sattvapada Brahmana, it's a commentary on a

58:17

Veda, the Yajur Veda, you know. There's Rig Veda, there's Yajur, Sama, Atharva.

58:23

It's a commentary, it's a book written by Yajanavalkya. He was a sage, he was a

58:29

Hindu guru, ancient Hindu guru. Again, we have no evidence, anything for all of this, but the book says in Sattvapada Brahmana, over there it says that you have to eat the cow meat, you know, or the ox meat, you know.

58:46

The gods even chose the cow's meat compared to the other meats. So they really liked, you know, the best book

58:55

I would say anyone to buy, The Meat of the Holy Cow, written by D .N.

59:01

Jha. He's a Hindu, no Westerner guy, okay. This book has been banned in many places in India.

59:09

This book, there was a court case, you know, from a conservative

59:15

Hindu state, you know, they took, they filed a case against this author and he was threatened.

59:22

So he had, you know, bodyguards around him when he published this book, you know.

59:27

So in this book, like there are so many verses. The book is full of the verses specifically from the

59:35

Vedas, which literally talks about how cow meat was eaten, you know, like in ancient

59:42

India. In Indus Valley civilization, we find the bones of cow bones, ox bones.

59:49

So it's just Hinduism has developed over time and it's a cool trend, which is also happening in the

59:56

West, you know. You know, Hinduism is like in the temple, you remember the guy said that we don't eat meat.

01:00:02

But hey, have you read the Manu Smriti? You have to eat. Manu is saying if you don't eat, you'll be cursed.

01:00:11

Yeah. So in other words, there's a lot of double -mindedness where it's saying one thing, but do the other. And right now it's like, well, who cares?

01:00:18

We can't really have a conversation, even though we have sources that actually back up, that actually say something very different than what the whole general consensus is of Hinduism, specifically like not eating cows.

01:00:29

Here is one more thing I'd say. Like, here's my one thing. If you believe something, you have to research, you have to provide facts, you have to provide evidence.

01:00:40

When I was asking my dad, when I was struggling, you know, I was still a Hindu. I was still having my

01:00:46

Upanayana thread on me. I used to ask people, OK, what is the evidence for Krishna's life?

01:00:52

It's nothing, none. There's no nothing, no paper, nothing. So why would I believe that he existed?

01:00:59

Like when Hindus say we are the oldest. If you type on Google, it's like a common belief. Hinduism is the oldest.

01:01:05

What makes you say that? So here's one thing I want to say. People who think, OK, cow is holy. A lot of Hare Krishnas, by the way, they see cow as like next to God.

01:01:15

They bow. I used to bow in front of cow when I was a Hindu. My grandmother still to this very day, he feeds the cow like he's feeding a

01:01:23

God and she bows down. You know, so India in 2016, around 16 or 15, if I'm not mistaken,

01:01:32

India was the largest exporter of cow meat. A lot of people, if you just search, you will find that in 2015 or 16, around that year,

01:01:43

India was the largest. And today, if you type largest exporter of beef, I think

01:01:49

India ranks within sixth or fifth number of countries, like within the fifth rank or sixth.

01:01:56

If I'm not wrong. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. India was the global largest beef exporter in 2015.

01:02:02

15. There you go. 15. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And they're making a profit. So they're probably making a huge amount of money off of that.

01:02:09

Well, meanwhile, you've got people that will literally starve themselves to death by an ideology because they can't dare eat or replenish themselves, lest they go into a vicious karmic cycle.

01:02:22

But you have a whole government that's governed, you know, in many ways, part and parcel with the laws of Indians in a sense of theocracy, where it's like, oh, it's rules for the, but not for me.

01:02:31

It also kind of reminds me, if you think about, remember like COVID, all the times where you have like leaders who are talking about how you have to wear a mask here and have a mask there.

01:02:38

How many times people got busted? Like the governor of California, remember he got busted. I think it was, he had shut down all the restaurants and like thrown people, basically people lost their businesses.

01:02:47

And there's a video of him like at a, there's a video of him like with a new sun without a, without a mask and all like bunched together.

01:02:53

So it's kind of like, oh, let's do one thing less, but now we're doing the other. You know, the number one states, which produce more comments was

01:03:01

Uttar Pradesh. The most conservative Hindu state hypocrisy. You see, people just believe what they want to believe.

01:03:09

You know, there's no fact, no evidence. It's my emotion and feelings. Yeah. That's what Hinduism is. You just believe.

01:03:15

That's it. Yeah. And also like as a wrap up here, and we're, I can't wait for you all to listen to the other content that we have here is, you know, an

01:03:22

Andrew, you think about in Colossians and says, wherefore, if you die with Christ to the elementary spirits, principles of the world, do not submit yourself to certain decreases.

01:03:30

Do not handle. Do not taste. Do not touch as if there's certain foods, but everything is to receive, be received with Thanksgiving.

01:03:36

Right. So there's a plethora of Christians. You probably have a lot of different opinions about different diets, whether it's like vegan, you know, animal based carnivore, all that sort of stuff.

01:03:45

And in reality, this is God's world. And, you know, people make a huge emphasis on like one food over the other.

01:03:51

And in this case, you see just so much inconsistency. You have even like within the worldview, like the inconsistency is like the outpouring where it's like a one hand.

01:04:00

They're exporting beef, but then saying you can't. Cows are still sacred in the same way. It's like, as you're talking about earlier, when you're trying, when you're trying to go up the karmic cycle, even with you being in the top caste system, you're trying to get off your vicious karmic cycle by adhering to gods like Shiva, Kali, all these other ones in the system.

01:04:19

And when they're attached to karma too. And you do. Do you remember like when we're at the temple? Right. So if any of you are listening in Sandeep and I two days ago, we went and visited a

01:04:28

Hindu temple here in Arizona and I was talking to them. I said, well, what happens if I don't become a Hindu? Like, I'm going to probably regress and become an animal.

01:04:34

It's like, yeah, but eventually, you know, you'll have a chance to become a cow. And, well, not just a cow.

01:04:41

You have to become a cow that is in proximity to a Hindu temple where they're here.

01:04:46

You're hearing. You have to be in the presence of like the Hare Krishna mantra. So if that happens, then you have a chance to then upgrade into being like a human.

01:04:57

No guarantee of what caste system you'll end up, you know, how many lives it'll take to get there. And I'm just like, man, what?

01:05:03

How can you just leave in a system like that? You know? And so it's just praise the Lord, man. It's such a great opportunity.

01:05:10

This is a huge encouragement. Yeah. Do you have any last kind of thoughts? We're going to be kind of going into the

01:05:16

New Age practices, aspects of the West in regards. We're kind of like this is also a continuation of our serious gods of the

01:05:24

New Age. But do you have any kind of last thoughts as we end this segment as we wrap up here? Yeah. The last one thing which

01:05:30

I want to say on what we talk about is always look for the evidence, no matter where it is leading you.

01:05:37

When I was doing my study overnight, you know, like I have to wake up next morning, go to college, maybe at 8 o 'clock.

01:05:48

But I was like awake till 6 o 'clock reading the scriptures, Hindu scriptures, trying hard that no,

01:05:54

Hinduism should win. You know, it's not that weak. Come on. No, no. It can't be this weak.

01:06:00

It's weak as like, what will I say? It's so weak. There's no evidence. So look for the evidence, not what your mom or your dad or your grandmother, grandfather told you.

01:06:11

We are Brahmins. I mean, my mother's side were all priests.

01:06:17

Even to this day, they are priests. The whole city comes to their place, you know, their house for blessings and all.

01:06:25

But I'm the only Christian in my family. I mean, it was not easy for me, a journey of eight years.

01:06:32

So, yeah, look for the evidence. No matter you're alone. Excellent. Well, I appreciate you all for listening in to the second part of the segment.

01:06:40

And definitely, if you want a good support, Kuldish and the ministry, you can do that by the couple different ways.

01:06:46

You can join Kuldish All Access. We're going to have some additional content with Sandeep. You can also go to if you want to support financially, you can go to the

01:06:53

Kuldish show dot com. You can you can support financially or if you want to get all access content. You can support us there.

01:06:59

Go to go to Kuldish All Access dot com or two links in our description. You can definitely check that out.

01:07:05

All that being said, we will talk to you all in the next segment where you go into. We look further into the gods of the new age.

01:07:13

We look at the specific practices of Hinduism in the new age in light of the

01:07:19

Hindu scriptures. What is can be very eye opening. I will talk to you on the next segment. Hey, everyone. We hope you've enjoyed this episode from our latest extended series on Hinduism.

01:07:28

If you want to listen to the entire series right now, commercial free. Go to Kuldish All Access dot com and enjoy all of the future episodes commercial free.