April 7, 2021 Show with A. M. Brewster on “Children & Addiction”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this

7th day of April 2021.

Anybody who listens to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio regularly knows that the subject

of addiction really hits home with me.

I know that I've mentioned this many times to the point that it is probably ad nauseam

infinitum, but I not only became addicted

to alcohol as a teenager starting around 14

years old, continuing into my mid -20s, but

even after 18 years of sobriety as a Christian, I fell back into

that sin and, thanks be to God, went

to a wonderful recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, Hebron

Colony, a ministry over which I cannot stop

singing praises.

The Lord used this wonderful ministry, Hebron Colony, to bring me to

sanity and to restore me to a right relationship with God and the Church, and

I can never stop praising Hebron Colony for the wonderful work

they are doing.

But we are discussing today something related to this, not to Hebron Colony

specifically, but to the subject of addiction.

We are discussing children and addiction, and we are doing so with a returning

guest, A .M. Brewster, also known as Alan Brewster, who for

over 10 years has served God and his people in various capacities, including husband,

father, homeschooling parent, preacher, biblical counselor, president of a nonprofit that

serves Christian families, conference speaker, camp director, Christian school administrator, director

of a boarding home for at -risk teams, podcaster, author, and

host of Truth, Love, Parent.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, A .M. Brewster.

I appreciate it, Chris.

Thank you so much.

I actually really like the fact that we're in the United States.

You are one of the few people who says my name correctly.

You know, not A .M., right?

But it

sounds identical to the girl version, E -R

-I -N, pronounced, at least in English.

Yes, I actually found out, since I have a couple of female friends

named Erin, that that actually means Ireland in Gaelic.

Yes, it does.

Yes, it does.

But tell our listeners, for those of our listeners who have not heard you on this program or have not heard

your own podcast, tell our listeners about Truth, Love, Parent.

I'd love to do that.

Actually, just as a way of building commonality, I just want all the listeners to know that I, too,

feel like doing air guitar when I listen to the opening of the show.

And you're doing a visible neck of your guitar.

Just know that I'm there with you.

I want to thank the folks in Canada

who actually created that wonderful opening

theme for me.

Jason Highwell Martin and his band there in Canada

voluntarily contacted me several years ago and asked if they could record a new

opening theme for me, and I was delighted that they did such a great job.

That's so great.

All right, so that's the Evermind

Ministries.

There's really three or four moms and

dads all over the world, and you can find those at truthloveparents .com.

We train people who work with us.

We train them specifically how to decide

families, equipping people to be

able to work with those.

And then the last thing that we do, we have a ministry, a biblical counseling ministry,

families to God in their home.

They're desperate for change.

That is going to be Truth Love Parents.

And the other podcast

that was created as a ministry, it's called The

Celebration of God.

It is a look at how we as Christians can, every day of the

year, worship God and be involved in us being disciples,

but also discipling other people.

So that's Truth Love Parents.

I love it.

It's so great.

I'm from 2016, beginning of 2020.

I started doing it full -time, and the Lord has provided.

It's been awesome.

Praise God.

If anybody wants to find out more information about Truth Love Parents, go to truthloveparents .com.

That's all one word, no dots or dashes or spaces.

Truthloveparents .com.

Well, in your life as a counselor, in your experience as a

counselor, how much of your ministry,

when you are having counseling sessions with parents and

developing relationships and friendships with them, how often is the

subject of child addiction a part of your life and ministry?

Great question.

I would say the average parent

talking about their children, from their perspective, I'd say probably a boys'

home and whatnot,

so a

particular type of the study, because

100 of the counseling that I do deals with addiction.

And I say that because I'm not just looking at addiction the way the average person on the street looks at

addiction.

I'm looking at addiction the way that God looks at it.

And I believe having a correct view, biblical view of addiction, having a theology of addiction, if we want to call it that,

enables the 100 of the people I work with.

Please provide for us in more detail a proper, biblically -based, biblically

-faithful theology of addiction.

It's my pleasure.

I love talking about God's Word.

I do need to throw out here a disclaimer, though, just for everyone listening.

I'd love to take questions and whatnot, but please understand that I am not a medical doctor.

I do have professional experience guiding people through detoxes and withdrawals.

However, I always have a medical professional in the process.

I let them facilitate the physical healing while I focus.

So, though we can talk about questions you may have as they relate to chemical addictions

and whatnot, I just want to throw that out there.

My goal for us today, for everyone listening, whether you have children or not, okay, is this.

Number one, everyone needs to understand what the Bible says is at the spiritual root of all addictions,

okay, whether they be addictions to substances or behaviors.

Number two, we also all need to be able to recognize in ourselves and in our family members the earmarks of growing

addiction.

Too often in my ministry, I just encounter people who, the addiction was like a tsunami, only they didn't

see it coming until it leveled their home.

It was already felt like it was too late, and I want to give people the ability to see it.

...ourselves to help people through the medical consequences of chemical addictions.

I do believe that all Christians should be able to guide people to the cure, for this is

the Lord willing, today

.com.

I have a number of resources in

general, but also in today, so that if I can't

get to all of my points or whatever, you can go there and a lot of resources, but

at the beginning, I

like to go to Merriam

-Webster Addiction This Way.

A compulsive, chronic, physiological, or psychological need for a habit -forming

substance, behavior, or activity, having harmful physical, psychological,

or social effects, and typically causing well -defined symptoms upon withdrawal or abstinence.

And that first definition is fine and good, kind of what we would expect, but they actually have a second definition, too, that's probably more

helpful if we want to have a right view of addiction.

Here's Merriam -Webster's second definition of addiction, a strong inclination to do,

use, or indulge in something repeatedly.

That's the second definition, and if we lean on that definition alone, I hope that we're all

startled by the simplicity of addiction.

I mean, most people, I mean, if we're being honest, we imagine heroin addicts or alcoholics when we think about addiction, but we

all have strong inclinations to repeatedly do, use, or indulge in various things.

So with that said, I think we would all be wise to stop and reflect on our lives, and the lives of our kids, before just dismissing

the possibility that anyone in our homes could possibly be addicted to anything.

I'm going to move away from the secular descriptions for a second and just grapple with some Biblical understanding of addiction.

I really want to share some passages today to open up our minds so we understand this, because I think if you said to the

average Christian, what does the Bible say about addiction?

We struggle.

It helps us to understand it, but then also equips you with tools that you

can use when talking with other people.

The Bible obviously doesn't use the words addiction or addicted, but the concept is definitely there.

In fact, I would argue that it's illustrated in a far more dramatic way.

Let me give you one simple example, I think, that we can all start off with and be on the same page.

It says, Woe to those who rise early in the morning, they may persist in the

evening that wine may inflame them.

Obviously, this verse is, I want to focus in on the word, excuse

me, they wake up early in the morning, and they stay up late in order to pursue strong drink.

This is a result of someone who has a strong inclination to drink alcohol.

All right, so that's one example of what the scripture says, and there are a lot of passages that talk about alcoholism, or

what we would say being a drunkard.

However, there's another less obvious way that the Bible refers to addictive behavior.

A good example of that is 1 Corinthians 5 .11.

Paul is writing to the Corinthians, and he's talking about, he says, I wrote to you not to associate with any so -called brother,

or person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler,

or a drunkard, or a swindler, and Paul says don't even eat with

such a one.

It's about addiction than just the word drunkard.

The first observation for us, I give us

the impression of someone who behaviors,

so someone who occasionally drinks a small amount of alcohol is not considered a drunkard, and the same would apply

to a reviler.

We're not merely talking about someone who reviled once or twice in high school, okay?

The words describe repeated consistent habits, and as we all know, habit is even

another word used to describe an addiction.

But there's another important consideration we can learn from this particular passage.

A couple of the items on that list are clearly addictive.

We know that people can be addicted to alcohol as well as sexual immorality, but notice that

reviling and swindling are also on that list, and they're treated the exact same way.

And one of the things that this shows us is that those behaviors are just as addictive.

To the surface, you know, it may seem like a bit of a stretch to

suggest that a person can be addicted to covetousness.

I want to allow Jesus here to clarify the issue for us, because in John 8 -33, I

say to you, everyone who commits sin is

a slave of sin, because he is so powerful.

Everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.

Words like slave and bondage are often used to describe the experience of an addict, because that's exactly what's

going on.

And this wording is used all throughout Scripture.

Paul is telling them to keep an eye

on these sinful individuals, right?

And he says in verse 18, for such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own appetite.

He said, declare, you know, the heart, deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

And these people are enslaved to their appetites.

It's a various lust.

Peter 2, 17 -19, and specifically verse 19, it

refers to these people that they themselves

read that perfectly

detailed or describes for us exactly what it is to be addicted to something.

But again, there's another important facet to the biblical understanding of addiction, okay?

And I think the Romans and the Titus form pointing out that our addictive behavior is intrinsically

tied to this key concept of satisfaction.

Titus calls it lusts and pleasures.

Here's the thing.

Everyone who's addicted to anything is addicted to it because they believe it will make them happy,

feel good, or just please them or provide satisfaction of some sort.

Okay, so let's get to a biblical definition.

Just these few passages, and there's so many more passages out there.

A biblical theology or definition of addiction would be a strong inclination to

repeatedly do, use, or indulge in something that provides satisfaction.

The

Merriam -Webster definition there.

The strong inclination to repeatedly do, use, or indulge in something that provides satisfaction outside of God's

will for our lives.

And the more we pursue sinful satisfaction, the more enslaved we become to the pursuit, the stronger our

habit becomes.

Now, if we can just continue this Bible study, okay, we would soon discover that, uh, so many more things, but in particular,

there are two types of secondary addiction, but there's also

only one primary addiction.

Now, the secondary addictions are the ones that most of us think about when we're discussing addiction.

Sex, alcohol, chocolate, stealing, you know, money, work, recreation, okay?

All the things that we talk about that a person can be, quote -unquote, addicted to.

But here's the thing.

From a biblical perspective, the primary addiction that's at the root of

secondary addiction will ever evolve if the primary addiction isn't present.

And I'll tell you, in counseling, whether it's secular or Christian, one of the things I find is very disheartening is

the fact that too much attention is put onto the secondary addiction.

Now, I will, again, I'll say in a chemical substance abuse situation, a lot of secondary

addiction because the person can get very sick or even die if that is not handled the right way.

And I don't want to say that the secondary addiction isn't important at all, even if it's not a chemical or substance addiction.

It is important.

We need to focus on it, but it's not the most important.

And if we only focus on the secondary addiction and we miss or we ignore or we forget about the

primary addiction, we're doing a huge disservice.

We're trying to help.

So it's desperately important that we understand from a biblical perspective what the primary addiction is.

So what is it?

Well, let me personalize this for you just for a second, and hopefully this will help us to determine or figure out

and understand what this primary addiction is.

We know that.

Determine our struggles.

If you, the listener, believe that God is the only right and good

source, then you're going to submit yourself to His will.

As you study Scripture, you're going to quickly learn that true satisfaction isn't receiving everything on your Christmas list, okay?

In fact, you'll learn that you can be truly satisfied even if you don't get anything for Christmas.

And according to Matthew 5, you'll learn that you can even be satisfied in the midst of persecution and trials.

So basically, the satisfaction that God offers us is a deep, vibrant, all -consuming state of soul

rest.

It's contentment.

It's peace.

It's just beautiful.

If you believe that satisfaction only comes when you get what you want and when you feel what you want,

what you're doing is you're taking your own failure philosophy of life and you're substituting it for God's authority in your life.

We'll call that idolatry.

It says, therefore, consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality,

impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

And the moment I bring up idolatry, I know that I have actually a, there's a big misconception

that we get.

In fact, having grown up in Baptist churches my entire life, and I've moved around, this

move here is my 22nd move, so I've been a part of a lot of different churches.

I notice that there's this theme that we hear a lot when we're talking about idolatry within the church.

And most pastors or whatnot will say, now, you know, none of you have shrines at home where you're

burning incense or you're offering sacrifices to some little gods.

And again, in America, that's not the case.

Most of us don't.

But then the preacher will throw some slides up on the screen or whatever that has shown an altar or something like that, and there's a car on the

altar or money on the altar or popularity on the altar or something like that, right?

Now, first of all, please understand, I'm not putting down that kind of preaching.

I believe it's true to a point, but the problem runs far deeper, and if we stop with just that

observation, we're missing the most important life -changing truth that God's trying to teach us.

Or in the shape of a famous musician or car,

okay, is not...

I remember long ago, I was having a conversation with a gentleman

who had committed I'm

addicted.

By the grace of God, I was quick to correct him.

I said, no,

none of us actually worship our faith.

Sermons about idolatry rarely convict us the way they should, because none of us

truly worship money.

We sacrifice the God of my life, and

those things are the

sacrifice

that every human, regardless of age, sex, or nationality, every human is going to struggle with is an addiction.

Early on, I said that 100 of the counseling cases I'm involved in, whether it's children or

adults, the reason that people are coming for counseling is the

fact that their lives are broken.

Their lives, they hurt.

They have... things are falling apart.

Things aren't working.

They recognize that.

Maybe they understand the sins involved.

Maybe they don't, but they're looking for help, and they're coming, and we know after working

through the situation, we come to find out that these negative... these consequences are in their lives, and these destructive things

are somebody else's sin.

But specifically, even if it's someone else's sin, oftentimes there's a problem with how they're responding to that sin.

And so, and the reason that this person is sinning is the fact that they're choosing to find satisfaction in their own

way of life instead of finding satisfaction in God's way of life, and they are giving in to the primary

addiction that is then going to feed all the secondary addictions in their lives.

I'm trying to get here, and I tried to summarize a lot of research and a lot of Biblical

truth down and to distill it, but I think that's the most important thing that we can grasp right now.

I mean, we can talk about the cure for addiction, and I'd love to do that.

I'd love to talk about five ways that you can, you know, spot addiction in your children's lives, okay?

I want to talk about that, but until we recognize the fact that your infant, that cute little

baby, or your elementary schooler or your middle schooler, until you realize

that they, especially if they're not born again, if they're not born again, Romans chapter

8 tells us it's impossible for them to please God.

They're not worshiping God.

They can only ever worship.

Because of that, they are fully addicted to the God of self, and it's that

addiction that's going to lead them to want to find satisfaction in

being a straight -A student.

If we don't recognize that, first and foremost, we'll never be able to help our kids, and then when the secondary addictions come into their lives, and we find our

child high, or we get a note from school saying that, you know, he was found with marijuana or something like that, that's a

tsunami slamming into our house, because we.

Didn't see it.

Well, we have to go to our first break right now, and if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, our email address is

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at

gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and

private matter, and obviously, with a theme like this, I could readily see

that there may be many people listening who do not want to divulge their identity because the

question they are asking does indeed involve a very intimately personal matter.

Well, we will definitely allow you to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general question, a biblical question,

a theological question, that doesn't involve you personally or your children, anyone in your family or your

church, please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with more of A .M. Brewster right.

After these messages.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade,

do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications, but do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have

never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

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Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is Aaron Brewster, a .k

.a. A .M. Brewster, who is a biblical counselor and the host of the Truth, Love,

Parent podcast.

And if you have a question about children and addiction, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail

.com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And we do have a question from RJ in White Plains, New York.

He says, I am very aggravated when I constantly hear people

referring to addictions as a disease.

Where a disease may result from an addiction, I think this is very often to present

people who are involved in habitual sin as if they are victims of circumstances beyond their

control.

I was wondering what your guest has to say about that.

I think that's a very interesting question.

I don't know if I would totally rule out the way that people call

addictions diseases, but I am always quick to

clarify what I believe my own circumstances were.

For instance, when I reluctantly use the term alcoholic, and I say reluctantly because it sounds very

clinical, I will typically add in there that I was willfully

involved in the damnable sin of habitual drunkenness.

But anyway, Aaron, what are your thoughts on this?

Well, I think the observation he makes is very good.

I'm hearing in

the background some sirens and whatnot, so if you're listening to the show, don't worry.

I'm pretty sure they're not coming from me.

I don't think I've been canceled yet, but if you hear it, you know.

This goes back to the definition again, and this is so key.

If we can control words, nations, you can control

words, and so he's right.

We do like to define and redefine our terms in the way that presents us in the best

possible light.

I'm not a perpetrator.

I'm a victim.

I'm not a racist, and things like that.

This is what we do.

We do it all the time.

Their sibling will, of course, blame their sibling for

it, and again, I go to Merriam -Webster.

It's just quick, and I was able to open it up really easily here for me.

I don't have a medical dictionary in front of me, but it says, a disease is a condition of the living

animal or plant body or one of its parts that impairs normal functioning,

signs and symptoms, and that's the key thing.

This is why, actually, I don't like the terms mental illness or mental disease or

something like that.

I don't like it because a disease is

a living animal or plant body or one of its parts that impairs normal functioning.

The mind is not a...

The brain

is.

The mind is the spirit.

It's not a physical entity.

The spirit doesn't...

If we're talking specifically, I think we need

to be very careful to understand what are we calling it an addiction, and what do we mean by that, because as I've laid it out here,

no, it's usually the primary addiction or the

secondary addiction, which really would be inappropriate, and it does definitely promote the victim

mentality.

I'm walking down the road.

Someone sneezes on me.

Their germs enter my body.

There's nothing I can do to keep myself well.

I get sick.

It's not my fault.

My relationship with God is disease in my body.

My addictive

choice, alcoholism, can cause a breakdown in tissue that has lots of issues in the body,

but generally speaking, no, to refer to an addiction as a disease is not good.

Now, again, I do want to go back to what Chris said.

Again, not being a medical doctor, having researched this a lot, what we're

going to call addictive behaviors that can sometimes be brought on by

an actual legitimate physiological breakdown, but those situations are far

and few...

It's few and far between, and I think most people struggling with addiction are not struggling.

A disease situation, 99 .9 % of them, at least the ones I work with, are actually.

Struggling with a sin problem.

We have, I don't know if I'm mispronouncing this city, not being from Georgia myself, but we have

Al from Alpharetta, Georgia.

Is that the way you pronounce that?

Alpharetta, A -L -P -H -A...

Excuse me?

I said it sounds pretty good, but I'm not from Georgia either.

Well, Al says, can we as parents set up our children for addictive

behavior, and if so, how do we avoid it?

Oh, that's a fantastic question.

The answer is resoundingly yes.

I did a podcast episode called The Most Potentially Destructive Influence in the Life of a Child.

Of that episode, I unveiled the fact that we parents are the most potent

in the life of our children.

Why?

Well, because we have the most influence.

And so, yes, my addictive behaviors, my

sinful choices, my not -Christ -honoring ways of communication and eating and so

on and so forth, my kids see that.

In fact, my wife and I were just talking about this yesterday.

We were talking about some of the things that she and I do on a semi -regular basis.

It's just this habit that if we're not careful, our children...

I mean, the things that we're doing that we were talking about weren't even sinful things.

We're interpreting them the wrong way, or interpreting our motives the wrong way.

They could be left with a very wrong view of what it is to be a human and to glorify God in this

world if they were just not understanding why we were doing it.

So definitely, our children are addictive behaviors because,

again, it's not a disease.

It's not something I'm passing off to them.

It's a learned behavior that grows from seeking satisfaction.

Before I answer that, though, I do want to say this, too.

Carefully, moms and dads, the Bible condemns drunkenness, okay?

What people would call alcoholism.

I do not believe that it is a sin for alcohol.

I am not a social drinker.

I know that Chris would not do that

either, okay?

But justin is not necessarily 100 sitting against God if

they have an occasional drink, but here's the problem.

I'll take that back.

I'll pull that number back a little bit.

Nearly all

involved in alcohol abuse started or

their parents' wine cellar or things like that.

Oftentimes, they get to say that

nearly all of the children who have abused alcohol that I personally worked with were actually introduced to

saying that their mom and dad were alcoholics or drunkards or sitting against

God, but I'll tell you what, that's just a perfect example of our

trying to copy us and failing

miserably.

Definitely, yes, and that's really just the core of what parenting is.

It starts with evangelism.

We are a greater God than we could ever be

in our lives, introducing our children to God.

Once they are followers of Christ, born again, we are discipling them to know God better, to

enjoy being a follower of Christ, because if that primary addiction, that

addiction to self, is not thriving in our lives, I'm not going to pursue

sinful sex.

I'm not going to pursue chocolate.

My life is not going to be ruled by necessity to get all A's and be the best student in my own

glory, because if I'm passionately following after Christ, I'm going to want the right things.

So, yes, we need to

parent them according to Deuteronomy.

By the way, I'd like to interject here that I am assuming from what you said, I'm one of the rare

people, very rare, who became a drunkard at 14 when

my parents barely ever touched alcohol.

My mother would maybe have a few sips of wine or champagne on New Year's

Eve, and my dad, if he bought a six -pack, it would be in the refrigerator for months.

I can remember one time I took vengeance upon my

father.

I was probably about 10 or so when he ate the last

pudding in the refrigerator, so I took his last beer and drank a few

sips of it.

At that time, at such a young age, I thought it was absolutely vile.

I don't know how I developed such a taste for it.

I guess practice.

Let me ask you, was that your first drink?

I think it was.

Interestingly enough, even though you didn't like it, it is interesting.

Though that your first drink...

Right, not voluntarily.

It was a matter of theft.

That's sometimes how it happens.

The parents aren't introducing the child, saying, here, drink this.

It's just the parents have it accessible, and the kids get access to it, without the parents knowing, they start to develop a

taste for it.

Now, I have been curious about something for years after hearing it

the first time.

I was listening to a popular Reformed radio program in the

early 1990s, and the host was defending the Christian liberty

to moderately drink alcohol, and was being clear that

drunkenness is always a sin, but moderate,

responsible social drinking was completely acceptable for believers.

This particular host of the program said that there

was a high rate of alcoholism amongst very

legalistic, fundamentalist type families that

basically drove their children so far to the

extreme that the children wanted to escape the kind of stifling, smothering,

and legalistic atmosphere they were being raised in that they wound up doing the 180 degrees

opposite of what their parents were enforcing upon them.

Do you know of any truth to that?

Yeah, I haven't done a lot of research in that.

Having grown up during that time period, I definitely can say from personal experience that I,

myself, and my...

As we were trying to satisfy ourselves and live for ourselves, it was very

easy to run to the extreme opposite of everything we were told to do.

If we were told not to do it, that was the thing that we were going to do.

That's just sin.

That's how that works.

I do think it's a little bit of a cop -out to say that my parents were legalistic,

and so therefore, that's why I'm out spreading my wild oats.

I think it's a cop -out, because we do what we do, because we believe what we believe.

We are sinners.

We choose.

We can't blame anybody for our sinful tendencies.

However, when I sin against my children, Ephesians

4 tells us not to provoke our children to wrath.

There is a very real connection between my sinful choices and the effect that it has on my kids.

So, because children are not discerning, because they are easily influenceable, definitely.

I've seen kids in good senses and in bad senses

and just want to run the opposite direction from it, because it grosses them out, or they see how destructive it is,

or they just hate the fact that their parents are that way.

Yeah, definitely.

In regard to, specifically, the drinking, though, I think it probably may be just a little bit of a cop

-out if somebody says, you know, I do this way because my parents were legalists.

No, you do that because you're seeking satisfaction, and you're seeking it at.

The bottom of the cup.

Just to be clear, the Reformed host that I was referring to, I'm sure,

would never give credence to somebody using that as an excuse

themselves.

Like, I do this because, I think he was just talking about the high percentage of

addicted children being from very legalistic

backgrounds.

That goes back to that influence idea, for sure.

We do have a big influence on this.

In fact, I have, not necessarily in relation to addiction, but I have witnessed, theologically,

people who have been raised, or at least were members of either cults or

extremely legalistic churches for a considerable number of

years, that they have either swung all the way into liberalism and

apostate Christianity, or just don't darken the door of a house

of worship ever again in their lives.

So, I can see how there might be validity as far as an addiction problem coming

from somebody swinging away 180 degrees from the kind of restrictive...

As I'm thinking about this, the one thing that I

have to remember is, specifically if we're talking about legalistic, and I'm

talking like truly legalistic mentality, not just people who have high standards.

Generally, people who are legalistic, where if you don't do these things,

because they don't explain it well, because basically, the whole motivation for doing what you're supposed to be doing is

built off of a lie, that's never going to satisfy, and it's going to leave people feeling very empty.

Legalism doesn't satisfy, it never has.

In fact, could you pick up right where you left off, that legalism doesn't satisfy, because we have to get to our midway break right now.

Oh, my pleasure.

And if anybody wants to join us, the email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Remember, folks, this is the longer break in the middle of our show, because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in

Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they are required by the FCC to air

their own public service announcements and other things that localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio geographically

to Lake City, Florida.

And while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you

can, so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers, either by patronizing

them, buying their products, using their services, visiting their churches, supporting their parachurch

organizations, or at least by responding to them by saying thank you through the

contact information they provide, saying thank you for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

At the very least, that will go a long way, I'm sure, to appease our advertisers,

so that they may be more likely to continue sponsoring us, which we absolutely depend upon to exist.

So remember to send in those questions, too, to A .M. Brewster, and we'll be right back after these messages.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

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Hi,

I'm Phil Johnson, host.

And executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the G3

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The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all.

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Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3

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Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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Wow, that's some compliment.

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You don't have to owe me anything.

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Before we return to our interview with A .M. Brewster on children and addiction,

we just have some important announcements to make.

Many of you have been emailing me wondering about the health of

Vodie Baltham, whose name you hear every day announced in advertisements on Iron Trouper and

Zion Radio for the G3 Conference.

He is on the speaking roster for the G3 Conference coming up September 30th through

October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia, and many of you have heard that Vodie,

unfortunately, had a health setback.

He has heart problems and other health issues, and it got so severe that he had to come here to the

United States to Jacksonville, Florida, to have quadruple bypass surgery,

which took place on Monday.

And I heard from my friend Tom Askell, a mutual friend of Vodie Baltham,

founder of Founders Ministries, that Vodie came through the quadruple

bypass surgery very well on Monday night, and he had a good night,

and he has been awake and responsive on Tuesday.

And the next 24 to 36 hours are crucial, so please pray for Vodie Baltham,

especially over the next 24 to 38 hours.

He has a long road of recovery ahead, so keep this dear brother, this very vital

brother, in your prayers.

Also, folks, just want to let you know, a couple of interviews that you should be marking

your calendars for.

Tomorrow, we have David Engelsma returning to Iron Trip and

Zion Radio, a professor emeritus at Protestant Reformed Theological Seminary in Michigan.

He is going to be discussing the importance of the Belgic Confession.

He has just written a two -volume commentary on the Belgic Confession, so we're looking forward to have him on

the program again tomorrow.

And next week, on Tuesday, we've got Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, president of Reformation Bible College,

the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul of Ligonier Ministries, and he is going to be discussing his

new biography of R .C. Sproul, R .C. Sproul, A Life, in tribute

of this late brother in Christ, who is truly a giant, a modern -day giant

of Christian theology.

And every day, we have, I believe, phenomenal guests here on this program, so make sure you

try to tune in as often as you can.

Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to irontripandzionradio .com,

click support, then click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

If you prefer snail mail, sending in checks the old -fashioned way, the United States Postal

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We would love to help you launch an ad campaign, because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars as well.

We are really in a scary financial situation, folks, one of those

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Also, last but not least, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, no matter where in the world you live,

I have helped people in my audience from all parts of the globe find churches, biblically

faithful churches, theologically sound churches, sometimes even within minutes from their own houses,

that they didn't even know existed.

Or, if they knew the churches existed and passed by them every day, they didn't know that they were theologically sound.

So, I have extensive lists spanning the globe.

I may be able to help you, too, no matter where you live.

Send me an email to chrisarmsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line, whether it's for you, a friend, or a

family member, or whether you're going on vacation and need a church where you are visiting.

That's chrisarmsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address to send in a question for our guest today, A .M. Brewster.

That's chrisarmsen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

We have a listener, Adam, in Ipswich, Queensland,

Australia, and I hope I'm pronouncing Ipswich correctly.

I am always amazed when I find out that I am totally butchering the names of

cities and towns in Australia and in the U .K.

and in Ireland because they probably don't exist in the U .K.

And in Georgia.

Oh, you know, I got a follow -up email from Al, and he said

that I am pronouncing Afareta very correctly.

Yay!

Well, good for you.

Sorry, take that back then.

Adam in Ipswich, Queensland, Australia, says, as a church,

what are ways we can help those struggling with addiction, and is there a moment

where helping puts the flock in danger?

That's interesting.

Very good question.

I think there are definitely ways, and first of all, I want everyone to know

that I don't believe that

bringing unbelievers is great when it

happens at church, and that people

are unbelievers in their congregation every week who need to be brought to God.

However, the purpose of the

church is that we're

building those relationships, and then they can be brought into the

church, and it's the same thing.

It's great when a church, I do

think that's one of the better ways for

that to happen, of the auspices of the normal church services.

Like, their addictions program shouldn't be a substitute for Sunday school.

Let's just say that we

have, because we

fully overcome that addiction, is going

to require that,

recognizing that idolatry,

turning from that idolatry to Jesus Christ is the only way they can ever have a relationship with God.

So, I think addictions ministries are unique in that, if you do it correctly,

it is prepped and primed and a perfect opportunity to focus in

on the primary addiction, their need to worship the great God.

You know, does that put them in a dangerous

situation?

I guess what I'm assuming the question, for

example, bringing heroin addicts and alcoholics and whatnot to

the congregation, are we not being

good, or are we putting them into a situation where somebody who comes in high, you know, ends up being a danger?

Again, I go back to what I said at the beginning.

I think that a good addictions ministry is valuable.

I think that you need to be wise, and I think you need to have the right people in place.

I think you need to have good accountability.

Everyone needs to be trained.

Okay, that's definitely a very important thing, but you're

also not having it in the evening, where

people are coming in, the trained personnel are there to work with these people who are looking for help,

and you're not necessarily these individuals.

Excellent answer, and I want to thank Adam for also letting me know that I correctly pronounced Ipswich.

What a nice group of listeners.

And to follow up on that, I was wondering

what your personal opinion is about the major 12 -step

programs.

I am personally against them.

I attended quite a number of 12 -step meetings being

held at various places, both AA meetings and NA meetings, even though I was not

addicted to an illegal substance or didn't abuse a prescription drug.

I went there anyway just because of the addiction commonality of the

alcohol that I was addicted to.

But I am against much of what is contained in the

philosophy of the 12 -step movement.

I think theologically the 12 steps don't even make sense in the order with which

they are placed, the 12 steps.

For instance, after admitting that you are insane, you're supposed to

pick a god or a higher power of your own choosing.

It doesn't make any sense.

There's a dangerous aspect of this as well, especially for parents with

daughters who are going to these meetings.

Because you have to keep in mind, there are very often, especially in the larger groups, there are criminals there,

and by virtue of the very nature of the anonymous aspect of these groups, they are not

obliged to tell anybody that they may be out on parole or having to go

to a 12 -step meeting as a way of preventing jail time or

maintaining the parole requirements.

I know personally a woman who was raped by an AA counselor.

I have to insert here, I know Christians who I highly

respect who are heavily involved in AANNA.

But I still do not recommend it myself, and I have a lot of misgivings, especially

since most of these groups, unless you happen to be in a Christianized version of it, they are teaching heresy.

They are teaching that you can pick any higher power to be the

god, if you will, that gets you through this addiction.

I can remember when I, while waiting for an open bed at Hebron Colony

in Boone, North Carolina, the Christian addiction recovery ministry, I admitted myself into a

hospital on Long Island, a secular hospital, while I was waiting for the open bed.

We had group therapy with a psychologist, and she knew that

I had my opposition to AA and NA, and she asked me why.

I said, ìOne thing, Iím a Christian, and you believe that you can make anything you want a higher

power, like a chair, for instance.

You could say that thatís your higher power .î This woman, this psychologist said, ìNo, thatís not true.

It has to be something living, like a tree .î I said, ìReally?

What about when you cut the tree down and make a chair out of it ?î Anyway, what are your thoughts on

that?

I love the way you ask these questions.

Iíd like to get your thoughts.

Where do you stand on this?

Now, just so you know, Iím completely against it.

You know, man, you really invite that.

I mean, the roots of AA,

and it has moved further and

further from that as time has gone by.

I agree with you.

The Twelve Steps are, at best, loose, tied to some type of religious

concepts.

Like I said, weíre not going to

help anybody.

We have to tell God who He is.

And anything thatís going to help put a Band -Aid on their deep cancer issue,

they

need to know the truth of Godís Word.

And so, no, I think that Christians who utilize programs,

some people who will get involved in the local community AA, and theyíre doing that, specific shifts where

they can get to know people and invite them into their church and that type of thing, I think thereís value to that

type of an approach.

But I would say that an organization whoís going to be using that as

their basic curriculum, itís a problem of laziness.

Developing a Christ -honoring approach,

and itís just easy to grab onto AA and those principles and try to make it work.

And I donít think that thatís as valuable as they think it is.

Legalistic harming, when they get out, and I was making the observation that legalism doesnít satisfy,

its motivation isnít biblical.

Parenting, that basically I donít have to explain myself to my child.

Growing up, the version of it was, you know, I say jump, you say how high, and the way up.

But the problem is when we donít explain why our kids should do what they do, aka, we donít motivate our childrenís

behavior biblically, for unbiblical reasons.

Weíre creating a vacuum in our children that longs to be filled.

Solid, biblical, for doing it.

And that creates a vacuum in them.

They want, what theyíre going to do is theyíre going to run out, and theyíre going to try to find purpose.

And theyíre going to find it, oftentimes, in all the wrong places.

So the best thing that we can do is for parents, and the best thing we can do for people in addictive situations, if we have a recovery,

create a vacuum in them by not giving them, not motivating them biblically, or motivating them unbiblically.

Give them the truth.

I was going to say here, Dr.

Jim Berg

has aÖ.

Great, and I just want to insert in here, pragmatism

can be very dangerous, because people may have

stayed clear of their addiction to booze or drugs for decades,

and lived to ripe old ages, because of AA and NA, but that doesnít necessarily

mean that this was ultimately to the greatest benefit of

their lives.

I know people that stopped going to church, because they actually would say, ìAA

is my church .î.

And even the way that they refer to the big book of AA in biblical

terminology, it becomes a replacement

for the body of Christ, and it actually becomes an addiction in and of itself.

Yes, it does.

Thatís exactly what it becomes.

It becomes me searching for satisfaction outside of God, and I get addicted to that satisfaction that I feel going

to an AA meeting and having those people there and giving the hugs, and that becomes the thing that satisfies me.

Thatís exactly what it becomes.

By the way, Adam in Ipswich, Qld, Australia, if you ever want to take a road trip for

two days, or if youíre ever going on vacation or visiting somebody in

Perth, Australia, I realize thatís a two -day trip by car, but obviously a much quicker

flight, I highly recommend Emmanuel Reformed Baptist Church of Perth,

Australia.

In fact, a listener in the Iron Trip and Zion Radio audience contacted me several years

ago asking me for a church recommendation in Perth, and it turns out that the church was less than five minutes from

where he lived, and he and his family have become members of that church, so I just wanted to throw that out there.

We have a listener, a very faithful listener

and generous supporter of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

Greetings, brothers.

I have some friends that are foster parents.

Last year, they got a baby that was

born a heroin baby.

Will this child, as it gets older, be more inclined towards addiction than a baby that

has a normal childbirth?

I realize that sin is not the root of addiction.

I donít even understand that.

I realize maybe...

Oh, I see.

I guess in the case of a baby.

Yeah, in the case of this particular baby.

I realize that sin is not the root of that addiction.

But can physical conditioning add to the situation?

Oh, that is an amazing question.

Iíve dealt with a lot of children.

Yeah, and that is a sad, sad reality, and I would agree with you.

In that particular situation, that child is experiencing a chemical addiction that had nothing to do with their own

sin.

But the real question is, how does that grow up?

Well, there are things...

Again, Iím not super qualified to talk about this, but I can say that there are certain chemical issues that can come up where a

child is going to have a predisposition to easily being addicted, to become

addicted to in the womb.

Thatís a reality just like, you know, unfortunately, Chris has a higher chance

of falling back into an alcohol addiction than I do of falling into it for the first time

because of his experiences and because of his body consideration.

However, when weíre talking about a child and their propensity for sin, different

things that play into this.

Things that we donít even always...

The childís unique propensity, they are going, barring an

act of God, they are going to try to seek satisfaction in their own way, and they will become addicted to whatever

gives them that satisfaction.

My childís

addiction to an

entertainment system.

We had a Wii entertainment system, and I was letting him play it, and it started to just...

The things heís thought about, he always wanted to play it, and Iím sitting down and talking, and he didnít even play it that often, but it just became something he

was fixated on because he liked it so much.

And I sat down with my six -year -old and had a conversation where I introduced the word addiction to him and taught him from a biblical

perspective.

You know, obviously, we know from

a view, we

know that child is going to grow up

finding that the sins of their parents are having a warmth to them.

And by the way, I just say as a biblical counselor, I deal with this a lot.

Weíre not into our life.

Theyíre not our biological child, and they grow up, and they are struggling with things that we have no idea

whatís going on because they werenít our struggles growing up.

I mean, generally speaking, our children struggle with the same types of things that we do.

We donít know what weíre getting into because we donít know who their parents are.

Now, Iím not dissuading people from getting involved in foster or adoption, but I am saying that itís just something you need to be

aware of as you walk into it.

So thereís their own propensity for sin.

Thereís the generational issues that we donít always even understand.

Thereís the physiological that something like that can have on a person as they get older.

So yes, I would say that a wise parent is going to recognize that this particular child may have

behavior or specific...

They need to keep an eye out for that.

They would be foolish.

We donít like looking at a baby and think to myself, you know, ìTheyíre going to grow up to be an addict.

Theyíre going to grow up to be a rapist.

Theyíre going to grow up to be a murderer.

We donít like thinking those things, and I donít think that we should, but we should be wise enough to realize that barring an act of

God, any person can give in to any sin, and we need to be wise and parent our children accordingly

Î.

And by the way, Iím glad to hear.

That Adam in Ipswich says that he has just found a reason to get away on a trip

to visit Perth and visit Immanuel Reformed Baptist Church of Perth.

I love that youíre having these conversations.

Thatís so fantastic.

I will say that TLP actually has a pretty big listenership in Australia.

I wonder if Adamís ever listened to the show before, but thatíd be kind of cool.

And the website for Immanuel Reformed Baptist Church of Perth

is erbcperth .com erbc for Immanuel Reformed Baptist Church

perth .com.

And obviously they spell Immanuel with an E and not an I.

Well, I hope that you visit there.

We are going to our final break.

Itís going to be a lot faster than the other breaks.

If you have a question for my guest A .M. Brewster on children and addiction,

please send in your question as quickly as you can before we run out of time.

Thatís chrisarmson at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state and your country of residence.

Weíll be right back with A .M. Brewster right after these messages.

Getting a driverís license.

Running a cash register.

Flipping burgers.

Passing 6th grade.

Do you know.

What they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments and certifications.

But do you know.

What requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

Iím the president of Truth Love Parent and host of its award winning podcast.

Iíve been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s.

And what Iíve discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been.

Biblically equipped.

To do the work of the ministry in their homes.

Thatís why Truth Love Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com.

Dear

ones,.

My name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and

I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

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AM Brewster, we have an anonymous listener who asks, in your

experience and your biblical understanding,.

What is the.

What do you think the youngest age a child should be should be removed from the

home due to unrepentant sin and under what circumstances would that be a

wise move?

Wow, there.

So if Iím understanding correctly, correct me if Iím wrong because I donít have it sitting here in front of me.

Theyíre asking about timing of removing a child from the home

if whatís going on?

No, theyíre actually asking about the.

Whoever this person is, the scenarios under which that would be acceptable.

Let me give you an.

Example.

I know, itís really ironic that I know three families

who all adopted children from very horrific

conditions from orphanages in.

Ukraine.

This was quite a number of years ago.

And although some of.

The children were.

Children they adopted turned out to be just wonderful additions to.

The family.

All three adopted boys that were threatening

serious violence against them and the other.

Children.

And these would have been kids in their young teens and perhaps on the

precipice of becoming teenagers.

In fact, the thing that was really bizarre is that all three families who adopted a boy a

potentially very violent child from.

Ukraine.

Every time, the boyís name was Sasha for some reason.

Just a coincidence obviously.

But, you know, they would wake up and see the child standing there in their bedroom with a butcher knife.

Things like that.

So, I mean, what do you.

Do?

Yeah, Iím glad you clarified that because my mind was going in a very different direction.

So, I would

apply the exact same concepts to that as I would to an abusive

husband.

Sin is sin.

We personally are to run from sin.

Weíre to run from the influence of sinners.

Psalm 1, for example.

But at the same time, you know, persecution comes and we are to rejoice and be glad in it.

So, thereís this tension that Christians walk of how much abuse.

But when weíre talking about something that specifically is breaking the law of the land, right?

The most loving thing that we can ever do for our children or for anybody is to break allow the consequences of

an equal and opposite reaction.

And when we shield our children from those legitimate consequences of their sin, weíre actually lying to them

because they want and there will not be consequences for that.

And thatís not true.

An abusive husband, he needs to have the police called on him.

He needs to go to jail.

Heís breaking the law, Godís law, and the law of the land, and there need to be consequences for that.

And I will say, too, lest anyone hear me and say, ìOkay, so, you know, we send somebody to jail for physical abuse, but we

donít address people for other types of sins against their family ?î I would say, ìNo, obviously, we do that .î Thatís where

Matthew Chapter 18 comes in, where weíre approaching them and we are speaking truth into their lives and

weíre giving them opportunities for reconciliation.

But specifically to the question, say that if

themselves, if the child is hurting or threatening to hurt other people, if the child, whether that be,

like, sexual abuse or torture,

that type of a thing, then they are going

to protect the rest of the family from the consequences of individual who is threatening or potentially perpetrating

this violence.

Weíre not trying to throw the child out.

What weíre trying to do is weíre trying to

home, providing a situation where they are, you

know, how young to cause harms

and things like that.

They donít often cater to the very young.

The ones that do oftentimes end up being secular.

And if you had to use a secular case scenario

because of the threat of physical violence is so great, and yet at the same time, youíd know that while theyíre there, theyíre not

getting hurt.

Theyíre not getting any true help.

No oneís pointing them to the scriptural truth that they need.

So it really depends on whatís available out there.

Definitely, though, invite help into your life, because hereís the thing.

I know people who train dogs very well, but they donít know how to train tigers.

And if they take what they know about training dogs and they try to apply it to training tigers, theyíre going to find themselves a

meal for a tiger.

And oftentimes, parents, specifically in fostering and adoptive situations, they say, ìYou know, I parented my kids

just fine, but itís like Iím failing these children .î Get somebody involved who knows how to train tigers.

Help them to train you.

Have that person be part of the process because it would be foolish and it would be unloving to the child and to

the rest of the family to just think that you can soldier and be fine.

I know weíre coming late on time here, so Chris, I just wanted to remind the audience, if I may, thereís a lot of things that we didnít get to today.

We didnít talk about the cure for addiction.

We didnít talk about how to see addiction, the signs of addiction in our childrenís

lives.

And I just want everyone to know, they can go to TruthLoveParent .com forward slash iron, that I have

a number of resources there.

We had an episode recently about children and addiction and we talked about the cure for addiction.

I did an episode a long time ago where we talked about the different signs of addiction.

So if anyone was listening today hoping to get that information and weíre running out of time, please go to TruthLoveParent .com forward

slash iron.

And there are four episodes in particular I put there for you that you can get the answers that youíre looking for.

Why donít you.

Summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this topic?

My biggest problem is that I worship self over God.

And I canít worship God at all if Iím unstable.

And so my first and my goal

should be to become a better follower of Him and a worse follower of myself.

And so that Iím and your children are

going to need help with that.

They need to be discipled.

Because as long as that addiction to self is not being addressed, then

addictions to other things in life, those secondary addictions, are very, very easy because the childís just looking for

satisfaction in their own way.

And whatever way is comfortable to them, whatever way is nice to them, theyíre going to seek that out.

You need to become an expert in your child and you need to become an expert in Godís Word.

Becoming an expert in your child will help you see the tsunami before it crashes into the house.

Becoming an expert in Godís Word is going to help you to be able to help your, point your child

to truly overcome their addictive temptations and behaviors.

So become an expert of your child.

If you need help, please reach out.

There are lots of counseling ministries out there.

We have one if you go to truthloveparent .com.

You can find our counseling ministry.

We work with people online all of the time to try to help you.

We invite people into your situation who can help you help your children.

Thank you so much for being such a superb guest.

As always, Aaron, and I want to repeat your website truthloveparent .com.

I want to give you all an update as well.

As you may recall several days ago, one of our sponsors who I will now identify, thatís solid

-ground -books .com, Mike Gaydosh, alerted.

Me that he was.

In

pain

and wanted.

After the emergency, I came.

To him and said,.

With no bandages, no permanent scarring, and still no pain.

This is definitely reason for rejoicing.

Actually mind -blowing that this occurred, but obviously a very easy

feat for the king of the universe and the great physician.

I want to thank everybody for listening today, especially those who took the time to write.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.