April 7, 2021 Show with A. M. Brewster on “Children & Addiction”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 7th day of April, 2021.

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Anybody who listens to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio regularly knows that the subject of addiction really hits home with me.

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I know that I have mentioned this many times to the point that it is probably ad nauseam infinitum, but I not only became addicted to alcohol as a teenager starting around 14 years old, continuing into my mid -20s, but even after 18 years of sobriety as a

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Christian, I fell back into that sin and, thanks be to God, went to a wonderful recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, Hebron Colony, a ministry over which

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I cannot stop singing praises. The Lord used this wonderful ministry,

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Hebron Colony, to bring me to sanity and to restore me to a right relationship with God and the

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Church, and I can never stop praising

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Hebron Colony for the wonderful work they are doing. But we are discussing today something related to this, not to Hebron Colony specifically, but to the subject of addiction.

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We are discussing children and addiction, and we are doing so with a returning guest,

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A .M. Brewster, also known as Alan Brewster, who for over 10 years has served

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God and His people in various capacities, including husband, father, homeschooling parent, preacher, biblical counselor, president of a non -profit that serves

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Christian families, conference speaker, camp director, Christian school administrator, director of a boarding home for at -risk teams, podcaster, author, and host of Truth, Love, Parent.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, A .M. Brewster. I appreciate it,

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Chris. Thank you so much. I actually really like the fact that because of the part of the world that you're from, the part of the

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United States, you are one of the few people who says my name correctly. Not A .M.,

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but Aaron, right? Even I say it incorrectly because the way most people pronounce my name,

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Aaron, sounds identical to the girl version, E -R -I -N, Aaron, but the way you say the word is actually how the name is pronounced, at least in English.

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I don't know how it was pronounced in Hebrew, but I appreciate that. Thank you, Chris. Yes, I actually found out since I have a couple of female friends named

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Aaron that that actually means Ireland in Gaelic. Yes, it does.

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For those of our listeners who have not heard you on this program or have not heard your own podcast, tell our listeners about Truth, Love, Parent.

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I'd love to do that. Actually, just as a way of building commonality, I just want all the listeners to know that I, too, feel like doing air guitar when

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I listen to the opening of the show, so if you're out there and you're doing air guitar and a little finger noodling there on the invisible neck of your guitar, just know that I'm there with you.

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We have a band. It's great. I want to thank the folks in Canada who actually created that wonderful opening theme for me.

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Jason Highwell -Martin and his band there in Canada voluntarily contacted me several years ago and asked if they could record a new opening theme for me, and I was delighted that they did such a great job.

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That's so great. All right, so that's the icebreaker. Truth, Love, Parent is a ministry of Evermind Ministries, and the whole focus is really a three -fold focus to Truth, Love, Parent.

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We want to create free biblical parenting resources for moms and dads all over the world, and you can find those at truthloveparents .com,

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and we also want to train people who work with children and with families, so pastors, youth workers, teachers.

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We train them specifically how to disciple children and work with families, but we also deal a lot with at -risk children and broken families, equipping people to be able to work with those individuals.

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And then the last thing that we do, we have a ministry, a biblical counseling ministry, where we work with individuals and families who recognize the fact that they need to submit to God in their home.

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They're desperate for change that is going to be true change that's empowered by God, and we work with those families.

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I have two podcasts. One of the podcasts is called Truth, Love, Parents, and the other podcast was created as a resource of TLP, and it's called

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The Celebration of God. And The Celebration of God is a look at how we, as Christians, can, every day of the year, worship

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God and be involved in discipleship, both us being disciples, but also discipling other people.

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So that's Truth, Love, Parents, and The Celebration of God podcast, and I love it. It's so great.

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Truth, Love, Parents has existed since 2016, but in the beginning of 2020, I started doing it full -time, and the

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Lord has provided, and it's been awesome. Praise God. If anybody wants to find out more information about Truth, Love, Parents, go to truthloveparent .com.

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That's all one word, no dots or dashes or spaces. Truthloveparent .com.

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Well, in your life as a counselor, in your experience as a counselor, how much of your ministry, when you are having counseling sessions with parents and developing relationships and friendships with them, how often is the subject of child addiction a part of your life and ministry?

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Great question. I would say from the parents' perspective, the average parent who

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I meet and we're talking about their children, from their perspective, I'd say probably about 50 % of the kids

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I'm working with, there's some sort of addiction. Now, again, I've worked with at -risk teens at a boys' home and whatnot, so my particular ministry focus definitely attracts people who are desperately within the grips of that particular type of a sim.

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But this statistic may be even more surprising to you, because I would say that of all the families

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I interact with, 100 % of the counseling that I do deals with addiction.

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And I say that because I'm not just looking at addiction the way the average person on the street looks at addiction.

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I'm looking at addiction the way that God looks at it. And I believe having a correct view, biblical view of addiction, having a theology of addiction, if we want to call it that, enables us to be able to see that 100 % of the people

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I work with are struggling with addiction to one kind or another. Well, please provide for us in more detail a proper, biblically -based, biblically -faithful theology of addiction.

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It's my pleasure. I love talking about God's word. I do need to throw out here a disclaimer, though, just for everyone listening.

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I'd love to take questions and whatnot, but please understand that I am not a medical doctor. I do have professional experience guiding people through detoxes and withdrawals.

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However, I always have a medical professional in the process. I let them facilitate the physical healing while I focus on the spiritual healing.

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So, though we can talk about questions you may have as they relate to chemical addictions and whatnot,

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I just want to throw that out there, that little disclaimer. So, my goal for us today, for everyone listening, whether you have children or not, is this.

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Number one, everyone needs to understand what the Bible says is at the spiritual root of all addictions, whether they be addictions to substances or behaviors or feelings or experiences.

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Number two, we also all need to be able to recognize in ourselves and in our family members the earmarks of growing addiction.

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Too often in my ministry, I just encounter people who the addiction was like a tsunami, only they didn't see it coming until it leveled their home.

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It was already felt like it was too late, and I want to give people the ability to see it in the distance and do something about it.

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And then number three, though we may not have enough training ourselves to help people through the medical consequences of chemical addictions,

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I do believe that all Christians should be able to guide people to the cure for the spiritual cause of addictive behavior, regardless of whether that's their friends or their children.

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So, Lord willing, that's my three -fold goal for us today. And I just want you guys to know that if you go to TruthLoveParents .com

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forward slash iron, I have a number of resources there that are general, for families in general, but also specific resources to our discussion today, so that if I can't get to all of my points or whatever, you can go there, and a lot of resources specifically dealing with children and addictions.

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So, Chris, as you mentioned, let's go ahead and start right at the beginning. What is the biblical, spiritual, theological root of addiction?

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Well, I'm going to start just with a casual definition. I like to go to Merriam -Webster. They define addiction this way, a compulsive, chronic, physiological, or psychological need for a habit -forming substance, behavior, or activity having harmful physical, psychological, or social effects and typically causing well -defined symptoms upon withdrawal or abstinence.

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And that first definition is fine and good, kind of what we would expect, but they actually have a second definition, too, that's probably more helpful if we want to have a right view of addiction.

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Here's Merriam -Webster's second definition of addiction, a strong inclination to do, use, or indulge in something repeatedly.

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And that's it. That's the second definition. And if we lean on that definition alone, I hope that we're all startled by the simplicity of addiction.

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I mean, most people, I mean, if we're being honest, we imagine heroin addicts or alcoholics when we think about addiction, but we all have strong inclinations to repeatedly do, use, or indulge in various things.

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So with that said, I think we would all be wise to stop and reflect on our lives and the lives of our kids before just dismissing the possibility that anyone in our homes could possibly be addicted to anything.

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All right? But feel free to move away from the secular descriptions for a second and just grapple with some biblical understanding of addiction.

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And I really, I want to share some passages today to open up our minds so we understand this, because I think if you said to the average

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Christian, what does the Bible say about addiction? We struggle. So I want to present these so that it helps us to understand it, but then also equips you with tools that you can use when talking with other people.

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The Bible obviously doesn't use the words addiction or addicted, but the concept is definitely there.

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In fact, I would argue that it's illustrated in a far more dramatic way. Let me give you one simple example, I think, that we can all start off with and be on the same page.

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Isaiah 511 says, Woe to those who rise early in the morning, they may pursue strong drink, who stay up late in the evening, that wine may inflame them.

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Obviously, this verse is referring to substance abuse, but I want to focus in on the word pursue.

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They, excuse me, they wake up early in the morning and they stay up late in order to pursue strong drink.

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This is a result of someone who has a strong inclination to drink alcohol. All right?

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So that's one example of what the scripture says, and there are a lot of passages that talk about alcoholism, or what we would say being a drunkard.

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However, there's another less obvious way that the Bible refers to addictive behavior. A good example of that is 1

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Corinthians 511. Paul is writing to the Corinthians and he's talking about, he says, I wrote to you not to associate with any so -called brother who does the following things.

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If he's an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler, and Paul says, don't even eat with such a one.

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Okay? Now in that list, the word drunkard probably stuck out to us, but this verse has a lot more to teach us about addiction than just the word drunkard.

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The first observation for us is that the Greek words employed here to give the impression, sorry, gives us the impression of someone who engages in these behaviors repeatedly.

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That's what we understand from the Greek. So someone who occasionally drinks a small amount of alcohol is not considered a drunkard.

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And the same would apply to a reviler. We're not merely talking about someone who reviled once or twice in high school.

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Okay? The words describe repeated, consistent habits. And as we all know, habit is even another word used to describe an addiction.

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But there's another important consideration we can learn from this particular passage. A couple of the items on that list are clearly addictive.

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We know that people can be addicted to alcohol as well as sexual immorality. But notice that covetousness, idolatry, reviling, and swindling are also on that list, and they're treated the exact same way.

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And one of the things that this shows us is that those behaviors are just as addictive as alcoholism and sexual sin.

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Now, though on the surface, you know, it may seem like a bit of a stretch to suggest that a person can be addicted to covetousness,

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I want to allow Jesus here to clarify the issue for us. Because in John 8, 34 -36, it reads this,

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That terminology is so powerful. Everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.

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Words like slave and bondage are often used to describe the experience of an addict because that's exactly what's going on.

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And this wording is used all throughout Scripture. Listen to this, Romans 16, 17 -18.

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Paul is telling them to keep an eye on these sinful individuals, right? And he says in verse 18,

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In Titus 3, 3, it refers to people who are enslaved to various lusts and pleasures.

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And in 2 Peter 2, 17 -19, and specifically verse 19, it refers to these people that they themselves are slaves of corruption.

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So this is just powerful imagery that perfectly details or describes for us exactly what it is to be addicted to something.

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But again, there's another important facet to the biblical understanding of addiction, okay? And I think the Romans and the Titus passages I just referenced are very helpful in pointing out that our addictive behavior is intrinsically tied to this key concept of satisfaction.

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Romans calls it appetites, Titus calls it lusts and pleasures. Here's the thing, everyone who's addicted to anything is addicted to it because they believe it will make them happy, or feel good, or just please them, or provide satisfaction of some sort.

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Okay, so let's get to a biblical definition, if we can just boil all this down to a biblical definition based off of just these few passages.

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And there are so many more passages out there. But I would say this, a biblical theology or definition of addiction would be a strong inclination to repeatedly do, use, or indulge in something that provides satisfaction outside of God's will for our lives.

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Okay, so you see I stole a little bit from the Merriam -Webster definition there. The strong inclination to repeatedly do, use, or indulge in something that provides satisfaction outside of God's will for our lives.

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And the more we pursue sinful satisfaction, the more enslaved we become to the pursuit, the stronger our habit becomes.

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Now, if we can just continue this Bible study, okay, we would soon discover that, uh, so many more things, but in particular, there are two types of addictions listed out in scriptures.

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There are secondary addictions, but there's also only one primary addiction. Now, the secondary addictions are the ones that most of us think about when we're discussing addiction.

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Sex, alcohol, chocolate, stealing, you know, money, work, recreation, okay, all the things that we talk about that a person can be, quote -unquote, addicted to.

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But here's the thing, from a biblical perspective, the primary addiction, that's at the root of all addictions.

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No secondary addiction will ever evolve if the primary addiction isn't present. And I'll tell you, in counseling, whether it's secular or Christian, one of the things that I find is very disheartening is the fact that too much attention is put onto the secondary addiction.

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Now, I will, again, I'll say, in a chemical substance abuse situation, a lot of attention has to be put onto the secondary addiction, because the person can get very sick or even die if that's not handled the right way.

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And I don't want to say that the secondary addiction isn't important at all, even if it's not a chemical or substance addiction.

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It is important, and we need to focus on it, but it's not the most important. And if we only focus on the secondary addiction, and we miss or we ignore or we forget about the primary addiction, we're doing a huge disservice to our children and to anyone else that we're trying to help.

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So it's desperately important that we understand from a biblical perspective what the primary addiction is.

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So what is it? Well, let me personalize this for you just for a second, and hopefully this will help us to determine or figure out and understand what this primary addiction is.

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Okay, so we all yearn for satisfaction. We know that. But the source of that satisfaction is going to determine our struggle with addiction.

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So here's why. If you, the listener, believe that God is the only right and good source of satisfaction, then you're going to submit yourself to His will.

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As you study Scripture, you're going to quickly learn that true satisfaction isn't receiving everything on your Christmas list, okay?

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In fact, you'll learn that you can be truly satisfied even if you don't get anything for Christmas. And according to Matthew 5, you'll learn that you can even be satisfied in the midst of persecution and trials.

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So basically, the satisfaction that God offers us is a deep, vibrant, all -consuming state of soul rest.

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It's contentment. It's peace. It's this beautiful satisfaction. But if you believe that satisfaction only comes when you get what you want and when you feel what you want, what you're doing is you're taking your own failure philosophy of life and you're substituting it for God's authority in your life.

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And simply put, what does the Bible call that? Well, the Bible calls that idolatry. Consider Colossians 3 .5.

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It says, Now, here's the problem.

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The moment I bring up idolatry, I know that I have actually, there's a big misconception that we get.

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In fact, having grown up in Baptist churches my entire life, and I've moved around, this move here is my 22nd move, so I've been a part of a lot of different churches.

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I notice that there's this theme that we hear a lot when we're talking about idolatry within the church.

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And most pastors or whatnot will say, now, you know, none of you have shrines at home where you're burning incense or you're offering sacrifices to some little gods.

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And again, in America, that's not the case. Most of us don't. But then the preacher will throw some slides up on the screen or whatever that has shown an altar or something like that, and there's a car on the altar or money on the altar or popularity on the altar or something like that.

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Right? Now, first of all, please understand, I'm not putting down that kind of preaching. I believe it's true to a point, but the problem runs far deeper.

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And if we stop with just that observation, we're missing the most important life -changing truth that God's trying to teach us. Okay? The idol, whether fashioned from stone or in the shape of a famous musician or car, okay, is not actually the small -g

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God being worshipped in that moment. I remember a moment ago, I was having a conversation with a gentleman who had committed adultery.

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And he said these words to me. He said, Aaron, I'm addicted to the female body. I worship the female frame.

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And thankfully, by the grace of God, I was quick to correct him. I said, no, you're sacrificing the female frame on the altar you use to worship yourself.

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And here's the point for all of us, okay? None of us actually worship our favorite sports teams.

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I think that's why sermons about idolatry rarely convict us the way they should, because none of us truly worship money.

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In fact, sports and music and food and drugs and money and such are the things that we sacrifice to ourselves.

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If I am the God of my life, then those things are the sacrifices that I believe will bring me satisfaction.

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Therefore, all right, and here's the thing, the first and biggest addiction that every human, regardless of age, sex, or nationality, every human is going to struggle with is an addiction to self.

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And this is why early on I said that 100 % of the counseling cases I'm involved in, whether it's children or adults, they all involve addiction, because the reason that people are coming for counseling is the fact that their lives are broken.

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Their lives, they hurt. Things are falling apart. Things aren't working. They recognize that. Maybe they understand that sin's involved.

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Maybe they don't, but they're looking for help. And they're coming, and we know after working through the situation, we come to find out that these consequences are in their lives, and these destructive things are happening in their lives because of their sin, or because of somebody else's sin.

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But specifically, even if it's someone else's sin, oftentimes there's a problem with how they're responding to that sin.

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And so, and the reason that this person is sinning is the fact that they're choosing to find satisfaction in their own way of life instead of finding satisfaction in God's way of life, and they are giving in to the primary addiction that is then going to feed all the secondary addictions in their lives.

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So I know it took us a long time to get here, and I tried to summarize a lot of research and a lot of biblical truth down and to distill it, but I think that's the most important thing that we can grasp right now.

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I mean, we can talk about the cure for addiction, and I'd love to do that. I'd love to talk about five ways that you can, you know, spot addiction in your children's lives, okay?

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I want to talk about that, but until we recognize the fact that your infant, that cute little baby sitting in the car seat, or your elementary schooler, or your middle schooler, until you realize that they actually are addicted, especially if they're not born again.

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If they're not born again, Romans chapter 8 tells us it's impossible for them to please God, they're not worshiping

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God, they can only ever worship self. Because of that, they are fully addicted to the

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God of self, and it's that addiction that's being a straight -A student or alcohol.

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And if we don't recognize that first and foremost, we'll never be able to help our kids, and then when the secondary addictions come into their lives, and we find our child high, or we get a note from school saying that, you know, he was found with marijuana or something like that, that's a tsunami slamming into our house because we didn't see it in the distance, we didn't see it for what it is.

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Well, we have to go to our first break right now, and if anybody wants to join us for the question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail dot com.

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Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

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If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and obviously, with a theme like this,

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I could readily see that there may be many people listening who do not want to divulge their identity because the question they are asking does indeed involve a very intimately personal matter.

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Well, we will definitely allow you to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general question, a biblical question, a theological question, that doesn't involve you personally or your children, anyone in your family or your church, please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence.

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We'll be right back with more of A .M. Brewster right after these messages. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade, do you know what they all have in common?

26:50

They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

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Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

27:04

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

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That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

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God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

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Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com. to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

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He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

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God has designed, and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

34:04

God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

34:11

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God, in his infinite mercy, has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

34:21

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

34:27

God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

34:35

Thank you. Hello, my name is

34:44

Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

34:52

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.

35:16

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

35:25

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

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Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

36:00

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689

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London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

36:10

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is

36:20

Aaron Brewster, a .k .a. A .M. Brewster, who is a biblical counselor and the host of the

36:26

Truth, Love, Parent podcast. And if you have a question about children and addiction, our email address is

36:34

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

36:43

USA. And we do have a question from RJ in White Plains, New York.

36:49

He says, I am very aggravated when I constantly hear people referring to addictions as a disease.

37:00

Where a disease may result from an addiction, I think this is very often to present people who are involved in habitual sin as if they are victims of circumstances beyond their control.

37:12

I was wondering what your guest has to say about that. I think that's a very interesting question.

37:18

I don't know if I would totally rule out the way that people call addictions diseases, but I am always quick to clarify what

37:33

I believe my own circumstances were. Like, for instance, when I reluctantly will use the term alcoholic, and I say reluctantly because it sounds very clinical,

37:42

I will typically add in there that I was willfully involved in the damnable sin of habitual drunkenness.

37:51

But anyway, Aaron, what are your thoughts on this? Well, I think the observation he makes is very good, and I think that the question obviously is really valid.

38:01

This goes back, though, and by the way, I'm hearing in the background a little bit of some sirens and whatnot, so if you're listening to the show, don't worry,

38:10

I'm pretty sure they're not coming from me. I don't think I've been canceled yet, but if you hear it, you know.

38:18

This goes back to the definition again, and this is so key. If we can control words, we can control nations.

38:27

If you can control words, you can control absolutely everything. And so he's right.

38:32

We do like to define and redefine our terms in the way that presents us in the best possible light.

38:39

I'm not a perpetrator. I'm a victim. I'm not a racist. I'm the victim of racism and things like that.

38:46

It's what we do. We do it all the time. Children who have smacked their sibling will, of course, blame their sibling for it ad nauseum.

38:56

So let's start with just a quick understanding. And, again, I go to Merriam -Webster. It's just quick, and I was able to open it up really easily here for me.

39:05

I don't have a medical dictionary in front of me, but it says a disease is a condition of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms.

39:20

And that's the key thing. This is why, actually, I don't like the terms mental illness or mental disease or something like that.

39:28

I don't like it because a disease is a breakdown of physical tissues.

39:34

Okay? It's a condition of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that impairs normal functioning.

39:40

The mind is not a physical entity. It doesn't – the brain is, right?

39:47

But from a biblical standpoint, the mind is the spirit. It's not a physical entity. The spirit doesn't get sick.

39:53

The spirit can't be diseased. And so if we're talking specifically about the context of addictions, then

40:00

I think we need to be very careful to understand what are we calling an addiction and what do we mean by that? Because as I've laid it out here,

40:06

I would say that, no, to use the word disease for an addiction, the primary addiction or the secondary addiction, really would be inappropriate.

40:16

And it does definitely promote the victim mentality. I'm walking down the road, someone sneezes on me, their germs enter my body, there's nothing

40:23

I can do besides take supplements to keep myself well. I get sick. It's not my fault. My relationship with God is not hindered by the fact that I now have this disease in my body.

40:34

But the reality is, as Chris mentioned, that disease – it was mentioned by the person who offered the question, too.

40:44

A disease can come from my addictive choices, for sure. Alcoholism can cause a breakdown in tissue that has lots of issues in the body.

40:53

But generally speaking, no, to refer to an addiction as a disease is not good. Now, again, I do want to go back to what Chris said.

41:00

Not being a medical doctor, having researched this a lot, I do believe that there are some what we're going to call addictive behaviors that can sometimes be brought on by an actual legitimate physiological breakdown.

41:15

But those situations are few and far between. And I think most people struggling with addiction are not struggling with a legitimate disease situation.

41:27

99 .9 % of them, at least the ones I work with, are actually struggling with a sin problem.

41:33

We have – I don't know if I'm mispronouncing this city, not being from Georgia myself – but we have

41:39

Al from Alpharetta, Georgia. Is that the way you pronounce that? Alpharetta?

41:45

A -L -P -H -A -R... Well, excuse me? I said it sounds pretty good, but I'm not from Georgia either. Well, Al says,

41:52

Can we as parents set up our children for addictive behavior?

41:57

And if so, how do we avoid it? Oh, that's a fantastic question. And the answer is resoundingly yes.

42:04

I did a podcast episode called The Most Potentially Destructive Influence in the Life of a

42:09

Child. And over the course of that episode, I unveiled the fact that we parents are the most potentially destructive influence in the life of our children.

42:19

Why? Well, because we have the most influence in the life of our kids, generally speaking. And so, yes, my addictive behaviors, my sinful choices, my not -Christ -honoring ways of communication and eating and so on and so forth,

42:35

I can see that. In fact, my wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. We were talking about some of the things that she and I do on a semi -regular basis.

42:45

It's just this habit that if we're not careful, our children... I mean, the things that we're doing that we were talking about weren't even sinful things.

42:52

But if our children are interpreting them the wrong way, or interpreting our motives the wrong way, they could be left with a very wrong view of what it is to be a human and to glorify

43:03

God in this world if they were just to look at what we're doing and just copy us without understanding why we were doing it.

43:09

So definitely, our children can learn, pick up our addictive behaviors, because, again, it's not a disease.

43:16

It's not something I'm passing off to them. It's a learned behavior that grows from seeking satisfaction for myself.

43:24

Now, the question is how can we set them up for success? And the answer is definitely yes, as well.

43:30

We definitely want... Well, before I answer that, though, I do want to say this, too. One of the things I will say... Listen carefully, moms and dads.

43:37

I do believe that the Bible condemns drunkenness, okay? What people would call alcoholism.

43:43

I do not believe that it is a sin for a person on an occasional basis to drink alcohol.

43:49

I am not a social drinker. I don't do that myself, and I have reasons for doing so. I would assume that... I know that Chris would not do that either, okay?

43:57

But just to be clear, a person is not necessarily 100 % sitting against God if they have an occasional drink.

44:04

But here's the problem. Every... I'll take that back. I'll pull that number back a little bit.

44:10

Nearly all of the children I have counseled who have been addicted to alcohol or have gotten involved in alcohol abuse started with their parents' beer in the fridge or their parents' wine cellar or something like that.

44:27

Now, other drugs and things like that, oftentimes they get introduced to outside of the house, but I will say that nearly all of the children who have abused alcohol that I have personally worked with were actually introduced to it by their mom and dad.

44:41

I'm not saying that their mom and dad were alcoholics or drunkards or sitting against God, but I'll tell you what, that's a perfect example of us doing something in our lives and our children copying us or trying to copy us and failing miserably.

44:55

But anyway, to Al's question about can we set them up for success, the answer is definitely yes, and that's really just the core of what parenting is.

45:04

It starts with evangelism, introducing our children to God, that there is a source of satisfaction that is far greater than we could ever have.

45:14

There is a God who is a far greater God than we could ever be in our lives, introducing our children to God.

45:21

Once they are followers of Christ, born again, we are discipling them to know God better, to enjoy the blessings and satisfaction of being a follower of Christ, because if that primary addiction, that addiction to self, is not thriving in our lives,

45:38

I'm not going to pursue sinful sex. I'm not going to pursue chocolate.

45:44

I'm not going to be—my life is not going to be ruled by necessity to get all A's and be the best student in my class for my own glory, because if I'm passionately following after Christ, I'm going to want the right things to glorify

45:58

Him. So yes, the answer to your question, Al, is that we need to parent them according to Deuteronomy 6 and Ephesians.

46:07

I mean, that's what we have to do. By the way, I'd like to interject here that I am assuming from what you said,

46:15

I'm one of the rare people, very rare, who became a drunkard at 14 when my parents barely ever touched alcohol.

46:25

My mother would maybe have a few sips of wine or champagne on New Year's Eve, and my dad, if he bought a six -pack, it would be in the refrigerator for months.

46:39

I can remember one time I took vengeance upon my father.

46:45

I was probably about 10 or so when he ate the last pudding in the refrigerator, so I took his last beer and drank a few sips of it.

46:57

At that time, at such a young age, I thought it was absolutely vile. I don't know how

47:04

I developed such a taste for it. I guess practice. Let me ask you, was that your first drink?

47:14

I think it was. Interestingly enough, even though you didn't like it, it is interesting, though, that your first drink was provided for you by your father.

47:22

Right, not voluntarily. It was a matter of theft. Exactly, and that's sometimes how it happens.

47:29

The parents aren't introducing the child, saying, Here, drink this. It's just that the parents have it accessible, and the kids get access to it, and without the parents knowing, they start to develop a taste for it.

47:40

Now, I've been curious about something for years after hearing it the first time.

47:48

I was listening to a popular Reformed radio program in the early 1990s, and the host was defending the

47:59

Christian liberty to moderately drink alcohol and was being clear that drunkenness is always a sin, but moderate, responsible social drinking was completely acceptable for believers.

48:19

This particular host of the program said that there was a high rate of alcoholism amongst very legalistic, fundamentalist -type families that basically drove their children so far to the opposite extreme that the children wanted to escape the kind of stifling and smothering and legalistic atmosphere they were being raised in, that they wound up doing the 180 degrees opposite of what their parents were enforcing upon them.

48:59

Do you know of any truth to that? Yeah, I haven't done a lot of research in that. Having grown up during that time period,

49:06

I definitely can say from personal experience that I, myself, and my counterparts, my peers, as we were trying to satisfy ourselves and live for ourselves, it was very easy to run to the extreme opposite of everything we were told to do.

49:22

If we were told not to do it, that was the thing that we were going to do. That's just sin. That's how that works. I do think it's a little bit of a cop -out to say that my parents were legalistic, and so therefore that's why

49:34

I'm out spreading my wild oats. I think it's a cop -out, because we do what we do, because we believe what we believe.

49:41

We are sinners. We choose. We can't blame anybody for our sinful tendencies. However, when

49:48

I sin against my children, Ephesians 4 tells us not to provoke our children to wrath.

49:54

There is a very real connection between my sinful choices and the effect that it has on my kids.

50:01

So, because children are not discerning, because they are easily influenceable, definitely. I've seen kids in good senses and in bad senses see something that their parents are doing and just want to run the opposite direction from it because it grosses them out, or they see how destructive it is, or they just hate the fact that their parents are that way.

50:23

That's definitely a real thing. In regard to specifically the drinking, though, I think it probably may be just a little bit of a cop -out if somebody says,

50:33

Oh, I do this way because my parents were legalists. No, you do that because you're seeking satisfaction and you're seeking it at the bottom of the cup.

50:41

Just to be clear, the Reformed host that I was referring to, I'm sure, would never give credence to somebody using that as an excuse themselves.

50:54

Like, I do this because... I think he was just talking about the high percentage of addicted children being from very legalistic backgrounds.

51:08

That goes back to that influence idea, for sure. We do have a big influence on our children, definitely.

51:14

In fact, not necessarily in relation to addiction, but I have witnessed, theologically, people who have been raised, or at least were members of either cults or extremely legalistic churches for a considerable number of years, that they have either swung all the way into liberalism and apostate

51:39

Christianity, or just don't darken the door of a house of worship ever again in their lives.

51:46

So I can see how there might be validity as far as an addiction problem coming from somebody swinging away 180 degrees from the kind of restrictive...

51:59

Well, as I'm thinking about this, one thing that I think is very true in this conversation that's extremely important for us to remember is the...

52:08

Specifically, if we're talking about legalistic, and I'm talking like truly legalistic mentality, not just people who have high standards.

52:15

Generally, people who are legalistic, where if you don't do these things, your relationship with God is in jeopardy, that type of approach.

52:24

Because they don't explain it well, because basically the whole motivation for doing what you're supposed to be doing is built off of a lie, that's never going to satisfy.

52:33

And it's going to leave people feeling very empty. Legalism doesn't satisfy. It never has. In fact, could you pick up right where you left off that legalism doesn't satisfy?

52:44

Because we have to get to our midway break right now. Oh, my pleasure. And if anybody wants to join us, the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

52:51

Remember, folks, this is the longer break in the middle of our show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the FCC to air their own public service announcements and other things that localize

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida. And while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

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So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers, either by patronizing them, buying their products, using their services, visiting their churches, supporting their parachurch organizations, or at least by responding to them by saying thank you through the information, the contact information they provide, saying thank you for sponsoring

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53:54

So remember to send in those questions, too, to am at Brewster. And we'll be right back after these messages. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

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Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

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Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

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I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s. And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

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That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

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Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com. Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

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I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the

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G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.

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The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all. My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including

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More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

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For details, visit G3conference .com. That's G3conference .com.

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Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.

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This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. Here's what

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Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

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Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

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Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to 6 p .m.

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James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries at solid -ground -books .com before we return to our interview with A .M.

01:10:38

Brewster on children and addiction we just have some important announcements to make many of you have been emailing me wondering about the health of Vody Balcom whose name you hear every day announced in advertisements on Iron Chopper and Zion Radio for the

01:10:55

G3 conference he is on the speaking roster for the G3 conference coming up September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia and many of you have heard that Vody unfortunately had a health setback he has heart problems and other health issues and it got so severe that he had to come here to the

01:11:17

United States to Jacksonville, Florida to have quadruple bypass surgery which took place on Monday excuse me and I heard from my friend

01:11:30

Tom Askell a mutual friend of Vody Balcom founder of Founders Ministries that Vody came through the quadruple bypass surgery very well on Monday night and he had a good night and he has been awake and responsive on Tuesday and the next 24 to 36 hours are crucial so please pray for Vody Balcom especially over the next 24 to 38 hours he has a long road of recovery ahead so keep this dear brother, this very vital brother in your prayers also folks just want to let you know a couple of interviews that you should be marking your calendars for tomorrow we have

01:12:20

David Engelsma returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio Professor Emeritus at Protestant Reformed Theological Seminary in Michigan he is going to be discussing the importance of the

01:12:33

Belgic Confession he has just written a two volume commentary on the

01:12:39

Belgic Confession so we're looking forward to have him on the program again tomorrow and next week on Tuesday we've got

01:12:46

Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:12:52

R .C. Sproul of Ligonier Ministries and he is going to be discussing his new biography of R .C.

01:12:58

Sproul R .C. Sproul, A Life in tribute of this late brother in Christ who is truly a giant, a modern day giant of Christian theology and every day we have,

01:13:13

I believe phenomenal guests here on this program, so make sure you try to tune in as often as you can also folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves please go to ironshipandzionradio .com

01:13:26

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01:15:42

click support, then click to donate now also, last but not least, if you are not a member of a local bible believing church no matter where in the world you live

01:15:53

I have helped people in my audience from all parts of the globe find churches, biblically faithful churches, theologically sound churches sometimes even within minutes from their own houses that they didn't even know existed, or if they knew the churches existed and passed by them every day, they didn't know that they were theologically sound, so I have extensive lists spanning the globe

01:16:16

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01:16:21

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01:16:32

and put I need a church in the subject line that's also the email address send in a question for our guest today

01:16:37

AM Brewster that's chrisarmson at gmail .com give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and your country of residence we have a listener

01:16:50

Adam in Ipswich Queensland Australia and I hope

01:16:56

I'm pronouncing Ipswich correctly I am always amazed when

01:17:01

I find out that I am totally butchering the names of cities and towns in Australia and in the

01:17:12

UK and in Ireland and in Georgia excuse me?

01:17:18

and in Georgia oh, you know, I got an email a follow up email from Al and he said that I am pronouncing very correctly yay, well good for you sorry, take that back then but Adam in Ipswich Queensland Australia says as a church what are ways we can help those struggling with addiction and is there a moment where helping puts the flock in danger that's interesting definitely very good question

01:18:01

I think there are definitely ways we as a church should be and can be getting involved and first of all

01:18:06

I want everyone to know that I don't believe that the church is designed to be a place where we bring unbelievers so that they can be introduced to God, that is something that can happen at church, it's great when it happens at church and I think that all churches need to be aware of the fact that there are people, unbelievers in their congregation every week who need to be brought to God, however the purpose of the church is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry and the ministry happens inside the church but it also happens outside the church we go out into the world, we're city set on a hill we're salty salt and we're building those relationships so that we can introduce people to Christ and then they can be brought into the church and discipled and be sent out to do the exact same thing so I think that it's great when a church has a program an addiction type of a program

01:19:01

I do think that's fantastic but I think one of the better ways for that for that to happen outside of the auspices of the normal church services, like their addictions program shouldn't be a substitute for Sunday school or something like that that's just my personal opinion but let's just say that we have a program in our church where we are reaching out to people who struggle with various addictions, whether it be chemical or otherwise that I would say is fantastic because to be able to truly overcome that addiction is going to require to overcome that secondary addiction is going to require them to come face to face with the reality of their primary addiction and their primary addiction is self -worship, it is idolatry as the

01:19:49

Bible calls it recognizing that idolatry turning from that idolatry to Jesus Christ is the only way they can ever have a relationship with God, so I think addiction ministries are unique in that if you do it correctly as you're dealing with the secondary addiction, it is prepped and primed at a perfect opportunity to focus in on the primary addiction, their need to worship the great

01:20:13

God now, the second part of the question is, you know, does that put our church into any type of a dangerous situation?

01:20:20

I guess what I'm assuming the question is you know, we're bringing as an extreme example, bringing heroin addicts and alcoholics and whatnot potential people who are even dealers, you know, into the congregation are we exposing our people to potential influences that would not be good or are we putting them into a situation where somebody who comes in high, you know, ends up being a danger again,

01:20:45

I go back to what I said at the beginning, I think that a good addictions ministry is valuable I think that you need to be wise and I think you need to have the right people in place

01:20:54

I think you need to have good accountability, everyone needs to be trained, okay, that's definitely a very important thing, but you're also not having it on the same day right down the hall from the nursery you're having it on a

01:21:05

Thursday night, you're having it on a Friday evening where people are coming in, the trained personnel are there to work with these people who are looking for help and you're not necessarily exposing the youth group to these individuals on a

01:21:22

Sunday by Sunday basis Excellent answer and I want to thank Adam for also letting me know that I correctly pronounced

01:21:29

Ipswich What a nice group of listeners and to follow up on that I was wondering what your personal opinion is about the major 12 -step programs,

01:21:49

I am personally against them I attended quite a number of 12 -step meetings being held at various places both

01:22:01

AA meetings and NA meetings, even though I was not addicted to an illegal substance or didn't abuse a prescription drug,

01:22:11

I went there anyway just because of the addiction commonality of the alcohol that I was addicted to but I am against much of what is contained in the philosophy of the 12 -step movement

01:22:30

I think theologically the 12 -steps don't even make sense in the order with which they are placed, the 12 -steps like for instance you're supposed to, after admitting that you are insane you're supposed to pick a god or a higher power of your own choosing it doesn't make any sense and there is a dangerous aspect of this as well, especially for parents with daughters who are going to these meetings because you have to keep in mind there are very often especially in the larger groups there are criminals there and by virtue of the very nature of the anonymous aspect of these groups, they are not obliged to tell anybody that they may be out on parole or having to go to a 12 -step meeting as a way of preventing jail time or maintaining the parole requirements

01:23:30

I know personally a woman who was raped by an

01:23:36

AA counselor and I have to insert here

01:23:45

I know Christians who I highly respect who are heavily involved in AANNA but I still do not recommend it myself and I have a lot of misgivings especially since most of these groups, unless you happen to be in a

01:24:03

Christianized version of it, they are teaching heresy they are teaching that you can pick any higher power to be the god if you will, that gets you through this addiction and I can remember when

01:24:19

I while waiting for an open bed at Hebron Colony in Boone, North Carolina, the

01:24:25

Christian addiction recovery ministry I admitted myself into a hospital on Long Island, a secular hospital while I was waiting for the open bed and we had group therapy with a psychologist and she knew that I had my opposition to AA and NA and she asked me why and I said well one thing,

01:24:47

I'm a Christian and you believe that you can make anything you want a higher power like a chair for instance you could say that that's your higher power and this psychologist said oh no that's not true it has to be something living like a tree and I said oh really what about when you cut the tree down and make a chair out of it but anyway, what are your thoughts on that?

01:25:12

I love the way you ask these questions I'd like to get your thoughts where do you stand on this, just so you know

01:25:17

I'm completely against it you really invite that opposite opinion actually,

01:25:26

I'm sorry, Chris I completely agree with where you're coming from I mean the roots of AA were

01:25:34

Christian -esque and of course obviously it's degraded and it has moved further and further from that as time has gone by,

01:25:42

I agree with you the 12 steps are at best loosely loosely tied to some type of religious concepts and you're right heresy and leading people astray like I said before with the other question from the last listener was if we're ever going to help anybody we have to help introduce them first and foremost to God who he is and anything that's going to help put a band -aid on their deep cancer issue and I hate to use the disease metaphor for our first question but anyone who's going to put a band -aid on that isn't helping it's not helping at all they need to know the truth of God's word so no,

01:26:18

I think that Christians who utilize those types of programs now, okay,

01:26:25

I'll clarify there are some people who will get involved in the local community AA and they're doing that specifically so they can build relationships where they can get to know people and invite them into their church and that type of thing,

01:26:37

I think there's value to that type of an approach but I would say that a church or a

01:26:43

Christian organization who's going to be using that as their basic curriculum most of the time it's a problem of laziness building and developing a

01:26:54

Christ -honoring theology of addiction and a cure for that it takes some work and not a lot of people are doing it, unfortunately and it's just easy to grab onto AA and those principles and try to make it work and I don't think that that's as valuable as they think it is but this actually goes back to the thing that we were talking about before that last break, you know, we were talking about the question about these kids who are in legalistic homes who run to the opposite extreme when they get out and I was making the observation that legalism doesn't satisfy because its motivation isn't biblical and here's this age -old stereotype in parenting that basically

01:27:33

I don't have to explain myself to my child growing up the version of it was I say jump, you say how high in the way up I don't have to explain myself to you but the problem is when we don't explain why our kids should do what they do aka we don't motivate our children's behavior biblically or on the other side we motivate their behavior for unbiblical reasons.

01:27:54

What we're doing is we're creating a vacuum in our children that longs to be filled. So this child's been told don't do this or do this their whole life with no real solid biblical, truthful reason for doing it and that creates a vacuum in them.

01:28:08

They want purpose and what they're going to do is they're going to run out and they're going to try to find purpose and they're going to find it oftentimes in all the wrong places they're going to believe other lies to fill that vacuum so the best thing we can do is for parents and the best thing we can do for people in addictive situations if we have a recovery group or whatever else is to provide them the real answers don't create a vacuum in them by not motivating them biblically or motivating them unbiblically give them the truth that will actually set them free

01:28:40

Amen I was just going to say here Dr. Jim Berg has a program called allow and now

01:28:49

I'm forgetting it Jim Berg's program Freedom That Lasts and I would say that if you're interested in doing a type of addiction program at your church definitely look into his curriculum

01:28:59

Freedom That Lasts Great and I just want to insert in here pragmatism can be very dangerous because people may have stayed clear of their addiction to booze or drugs for decades and lived to ripe old ages because of AA and NA but that doesn't necessarily mean that this was ultimately to the greatest benefit of their lives

01:29:33

I know people that stopped going to church because they actually would say

01:29:38

AA is my church and even the way that they refer to the big book of AA in biblical terminology it's it becomes a replacement for the body of Christ and it actually becomes an addiction in and of itself

01:29:59

Yes it does, that's exactly what it becomes, it becomes me searching for satisfaction outside of God and I get addicted to that satisfaction that I feel going to an

01:30:08

AA meeting and having those people there and giving the hugs and that becomes the thing that satisfies me, that's exactly what it becomes

01:30:15

By the way, Adam in Ipswich, Queensland, Australia if you ever want to take a road trip for two days or if you're ever going on vacation or visiting somebody in Perth, Australia I realize that's a two day trip by car but obviously a much quicker flight

01:30:33

I highly recommend Emmanuel Reformed Baptist Church of Perth Australia, in fact a listener in the

01:30:42

Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio audience contacted me several years ago asking me for a church recommendation in Perth and it turns out that the church was less than five minutes from where he lived and he and his family have become members of that church, so I just wanted to throw that out there

01:31:00

We have a listener, a very faithful listener and generous supporter of Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio Grady, in Asheboro, North Carolina Greetings brothers

01:31:15

I have some friends that are foster parents Last year they got a baby that was born and that was born a heroin baby

01:31:25

Will this child as it gets older be more inclined towards addiction than a baby that has a normal childbirth?

01:31:34

I realize that sin is not the root of addiction I don't even understand that I realize, maybe

01:31:41

Oh I see, I guess in the case of a baby In the case of this particular baby I realize that sin is not the root of that addiction

01:31:49

But can physical conditioning add to the situation? Oh that is an amazing question,

01:31:58

I've dealt with a lot of children who fetal alcohol syndrome and other, like this child being addicted to drugs in the womb

01:32:08

Yeah that is a sad, sad reality and I would agree with you in that particular situation that child is experiencing a chemical addiction that had nothing to do with their own sin

01:32:19

But the real question that we're asking here is how is this going to affect the child as they grow up? Well there are there are chemical things, again

01:32:26

I'm not super qualified to talk about this but I can say that there are certain chemical issues that can come up where a child is going to have a predisposition to easily being addicted to something that they became addicted to in the womb.

01:32:40

That's a reality just like, you know, unfortunately Chris has a higher chance of falling back into an alcohol addiction than I do of falling into it for the first time because of his experiences and because of his body.

01:32:55

So that is something that needs to be taken into consideration. However when we're talking about a child and their propensity for sin there are lots of different things that play into this.

01:33:05

Things that we don't even always fully understand. There's the child's unique propensity for sin. The child was born addicted to self so they are going, barring an act of God, they are going to try to seek satisfaction in their own way and they will become addicted to whatever gives them that satisfaction.

01:33:21

My child at the age of six years old experienced clinical addiction to an entertainment system.

01:33:30

We had a Wii entertainment system and I was letting him play it and it started to just consume his talk it consumed his things he thought about.

01:33:40

He always wanted to play it and I'm sitting down talking he didn't even play it that often but it just became something he was fixated on because he liked it so much and I sat down with my six year old and had a conversation where I introduced the word addiction to him and taught him from a biblical perspective what his struggle was so the child's own propensity to sin can be a part of that but there's also this idea of generational sin.

01:34:04

Obviously his mother had a huge problem with heroin and we don't completely know from a biblical standpoint how exactly that works but we do know that parents do pass down their sin natures to their children and that it's possible that that child is going to grow up finding that the sins of their parents are having to limit to them that the foster parents or the adoptive parents never experience and by the way

01:34:31

I just say as a biblical counselor I deal with this a lot where you know we bring this child into our life and they're not our biological child and they grow up and they are struggling with things that we have no idea of what's going on because they weren't our struggles growing up.

01:34:49

I mean generally speaking our children struggle with the same types of things that we do or at least in similar ways but these children we don't know what we're getting into because we don't know who their parents are.

01:34:58

Now I'm not dissuading people from foster or adoption but I am saying that's just something you need to be aware of as you walk into it.

01:35:06

So there's their own propensity for sin there's the generational issues that we don't always even understand. There's the physiological effects that being addicted to something like that can have on a person as they get older.

01:35:17

So yes I would say that a wise parent is going to recognize that this particular child may have a draw or a temptation to these types of addictive behavior or specifically substance abuse and they need to keep an eye out for that.

01:35:32

They would be foolish. We don't like looking at a baby and think to myself, you know, they're going to grow up to be an addict.

01:35:37

They're going to grow up to be a rapist. They're going to grow up to be a murderer. We don't like thinking those things and I don't think that we should but we should be wise enough to realize that barring an act of God any person can give into any sin and we need to be wise and parent our children accordingly.

01:35:53

Amen. And by the way, I'm glad to hear that Adam in Ipswich says that he has just found a reason to get away on a trip to visit

01:36:03

Perth and visit Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church of Perth. I love that you're having these conversations.

01:36:09

That's so fantastic. I will say that TLP actually has a pretty big listenership in Australia. I wonder if Adam has ever listened to the show before.

01:36:18

That would be kind of cool. And the website for Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church of Perth is erbcperth .com

01:36:33

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erbcperth .com erbcperth .com erbcperth .com My name is Justin Peters and my friend

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Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the

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United States. We will both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme,

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For details visit G3conference .com, that's G, the number three, conference, dot com.

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Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3 2021.

01:39:08

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. Fellowshiping with the family.

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, this is

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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My book, Health for All of Life, does just that. You can find this exciting new book on Amazon. Pick up a copy for yourself and for your friends and family.

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

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Or visit lindbrookbaptist .org. That's lindbrookbaptist .org. AM Brewster, we have an anonymous listener who asks, in your experience and your biblical understanding, what do you think the youngest age a child should be should be removed from the home due to unrepentant sin, and under what circumstances would that be a wise move?

01:50:09

Wow, powerful concept there. So, if I'm understanding correctly, Chris, correct me if I'm wrong because I don't have it sitting here in front of me.

01:50:18

They're asking about the wisdom and timing of removing a child from the home if what's going on?

01:50:27

No, they're actually asking you, whoever this person is, the scenarios under which that would be acceptable.

01:50:34

Let me give you an example. I know, it's really ironic that I know three families who all adopted children from very horrific conditions from orphanages in Ukraine.

01:50:53

This was quite a number of years ago. And although some of the children they adopted turned out to be just wonderful additions to the family, all three adopted boys that were threatening serious violence against them and the other children.

01:51:13

And these would have been kids in their young teens and perhaps on the precipice of becoming teenagers.

01:51:23

In fact, the thing that was really bizarre is that all three families who adopted a potentially very violent child from Ukraine, every time, the boy's name was

01:51:34

Sasha for some reason, just a coincidence, obviously. But they would wake up and see the child standing there in their bedroom with a butcher knife.

01:51:43

Things like that. So, I mean, what do you do? I'm glad you clarified that because my mind was going in a very different direction.

01:51:51

If that was the context of the listener's question, I would apply the exact same concepts to that as I would to an abusive husband.

01:52:03

Okay? Sin is sin, and in the

01:52:09

Scripture, we were never commanded, like we personally are to run from sin, we're to run from the influence of sinners, you know,

01:52:18

Psalm 1, for example. But at the same time, you know, persecution comes, and we are to rejoice and be glad in it.

01:52:25

So there's this tension that Christians walk, of how much abuse do I put up with? But when we're talking about something that specifically is breaking the law of the land, right?

01:52:36

The most loving thing that we can ever do for our children or for anybody is to allow the consequences of their choices to come into their lives.

01:52:43

God created a world where for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. There are consequences for sin. And when we shield our children from those legitimate consequences of their sin, we're actually lying to them.

01:52:54

And we are giving them the impression that they can make whatever choices they want, and there will not be consequences for that.

01:53:01

And that's not true. So in the case of an abusive husband, he needs to have the police called on him.

01:53:07

He needs to go to jail. He is breaking the law, God's law, and the law of the land, and there need to be consequences for that.

01:53:13

And I will say, too, lest anyone hear me and say, okay, so, you know, we send somebody to jail for physical abuse, but we don't address people for other types of sins against their family,

01:53:23

I would say, no, obviously we do that. That's where Matthew 18 comes in, where we are approaching them, and we are speaking truth into their lives, and we're giving them opportunities for reconciliation.

01:53:34

But specifically to the question from the listener, I'd say that if the child is hurting themselves, if the child is hurting or threatening to hurt other people, if the child, whether that be, like, sexual abuse or physical harm through pain and torture, that type of a thing, then definitely you need to start considering how you are going to protect the rest of the family from this individual who is threatening or potentially perpetrating this violence.

01:54:08

This is a huge question that needs to be addressed correctly. We're not trying to throw the child out.

01:54:14

What we're trying to do is we're trying to put them into a situation where they are physically and spiritually safe, as well as the rest of the family that's at home, providing a situation where they are physically and spiritually safe.

01:54:28

And it's difficult, but the question was, you know, how young should the person be? Part of the difficulty with that is that a lot of these institutions, these boys homes and things like that, they don't often cater to the very young.

01:54:42

The ones that do oftentimes end up being secular, and if you had to use a secular place, you know, you do that in the worst -case scenario because the threat of physical violence is so great, and yet at the same time you'd know that while they're there, they're not getting any true help.

01:54:59

No one's pointing them to the scriptural truth that they need. So it really depends on what's available out there.

01:55:06

Definitely, though, invite help into your life, because here's the thing. I know people who train dogs very well, but they don't know how to train tigers.

01:55:15

And if they take what they know about training dogs and they try to apply it to training tigers, they're going to find themselves a meal for a tiger.

01:55:23

And oftentimes parents, specifically in fostering and adoptive situations, they say, you know, I parented my kids just fine, but it's like I'm failing these children.

01:55:32

Get somebody involved who knows how to train tigers. Help them to train you. Have that person be part of the process, because it would be foolish, it would be unloving to the child and to the rest of the family, to just think that you can soldier through it and everything's going to be fine.

01:55:47

I know we're coming late on time here, so Chris, I just wanted to remind the audience, if I may, there's a lot of things that we didn't get to today.

01:55:53

We didn't talk about the cure for addiction. We didn't talk about how to see addiction, the signs of addiction in our children's lives.

01:56:02

And I just want everyone to know, if they go to TruthLoveParent .com forward slash iron, that I have a number of resources there where we talk about this.

01:56:10

I just did an episode recently about children and addiction, and we talked about the cure for addiction.

01:56:16

I did an episode a long time ago where we talked about the different signs of addiction.

01:56:23

So if anyone was listening today hoping to get that information and we're running out of time, please go to TruthLoveParent .com

01:56:28

forward slash iron, and there are four episodes in particular I put there for you that you can get the answers that you're looking for.

01:56:37

Why don't you summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this topic? Well, the reality is that because I'm a sinner, my biggest problem is that I worship self over God.

01:56:51

And I can't worship God at all if I'm unstable. And so my first and deepest need is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and become a follower of His.

01:57:01

And it's true for our kids as well. And once that's the case, then my goal should be to become a better follower of Him and a worse follower of myself, and so that I'm trying to follow in His steps.

01:57:15

And your children are going to need help with that. They need to be discipled. Because as long as that addiction to self is not being addressed, then addictions to other things in life, those secondary addictions, are very, very easy because the child's just looking for satisfaction in their own way.

01:57:32

And whatever way is comfortable to them, whatever way is nice to them, they're going to seek that out. You need to become an expert in your child, and you need to become an expert in God's Word.

01:57:40

Becoming an expert in your child will help you see the tsunami before it crashes into the house. Becoming an expert in God's Word is going to help you to be able to point your child to the cure, the only thing that will help them to truly overcome their addictive temptations and behaviors.

01:57:56

So become an expert of your child. Become an expert of God's Word. And if you need help, please reach out. There are lots of counseling ministries out there.

01:58:04

We have one. If you go to TruthLoveParent .com, you can find our counseling ministry. We work with people online all of the time to try to help invite people into your situation who can help you help your children.

01:58:18

Thank you so much for being such a superb guest as always, Aaron. And I want to repeat your website,

01:58:24

TruthLoveParent .com, TruthLoveParent .com. I want to give you all an update as well.

01:58:30

As you may recall several days ago, one of our sponsors who I will now identify, that's solid -ground -books .com,

01:58:39

Mike Gaydosh alerted me and requested prayer for his four -year -old granddaughter who spilled boiling water on herself and had second -degree burns over 20 % of her body.

01:58:54

I don't know if this should be categorized as a miracle, but the amazing thing is while in the hospital and then while at the burn unit, the child said that she was in no pain.

01:59:05

And after leaving for a final doctor's examination today, she returned home with no bandages, no permanent scarring, and still no pain.

01:59:17

This is definitely reason for rejoicing, actually mind -blowing that this occurred, but obviously a very easy feat for the king of the universe and the great physician.

01:59:31

I want to thank everybody for listening today, especially those who took the time to write. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater