December 23, 2016 Show with Andreas Köstenberger on “The First Days of Jesus: The Story of the Incarnation”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

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This is Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Friday on

this 23rd day of December 2016 just two days before Christmas

and we are going to be discussing a Christmas theme today and Before we get to that topic

and guest I just want to announce once again That we are only a couple of weeks away

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I'm sorry chef.

Danian white.

He's not a pastor.

He's a chef.

Chef Danian white is doing the event for free as well.

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that it attends will probably receive about 30 to 40 books for free.

And These are really You know new published works and some classical

works too, but they're all brand -new books.

The.

The following day We are having the great debate Featuring

dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary who is a reformed Baptist scholar?

He is debating Robert St. Genes a Roman Catholic apologist and founder of Catholic apologetic

apologetics international.

They are debating on the theme at Mary sinless Queen of Heaven or sinner saved by grace

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Well, who is Andreas J a coast and burger?

He is the senior research professor of New Testament and biblical theology

at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina.

He is a prolific writer distinguished evangelical scholar an Editor of the Journal

of the Evangelical Theological Society.

He is the founder of biblical foundations a ministry devoted to restoring the biblical

foundations of the home and the church and Coast and burger and his wife have four children.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron Dr. Andreas

coast and burger.

It's great to be with you and Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas to you, too.

And by the way, is it coast and burger or cost and burger?

Cost and burger cost and burger.

I'm sorry for mispronouncing your name.

Hopefully hopefully that will not happen again.

And.

Today we are going to be discussing your book The first days of Jesus the story

of the incarnation a book that you wrote with co -author Alexander Stewart.

And dr. Stewart is academic dean and assistant professor of New Testament language and literature at Tyndale

Theological Seminary and in the Netherlands and He is co -author

of this book that we are discussing.

But today our guest will exclusively be dr Andreas cost and burger and before

I even go into the Topic at hand dr. Cost and burger. I would like to get to know Something

about you the religion of your youth of your of your upbringing if any and

What providential occurrences did our sovereign Lord bring about in your life that drew you to himself?

Well, I grew up in your

and

young

person

and was

converted

to Venice

and Just explored

and then giving my life to

Christ at the end of that and that was about 25 years ago and after that I

Seminary and then he

Carson there and then, you know taught various places and I've been at Southeastern now for about

20 years teaching on the doctoral level PhD seminars.

Yeah, well, god willing.

I'm gonna be seeing da Carson in a matter of weeks at the g3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

I'm looking looking forward to Seeing him once again.

I've had the privilege of hearing dr. Carson speak and preach probably five times at

least and Meeting him and personally I've also interviewed him on a couple of

occasions on iron sharpens iron and I just spoke with him today Providentially and he plans to

come back on the program when his Christmas schedule is a lot less

hectic.

That's great.

Yeah, he was a great mentor.

Yeah, he's quite a dynamic speaker.

He is not a stuffy Professorial speaker by any stretch of the imagination.

He's pretty exuberant and vibrant, right?

And.

So what led you to?

Become a professor to begin with.

What what did God place upon your heart to realize that you?

Indeed wanted as your life's vocation to teach on a higher level of education the things of God.

The Bible at all for the years of my life and When I

became a Christian for God's Word and I just

you know wanted to to know God through reading and Understanding the Bible as best

as I could

you know as much as possible even you know By learning the original

languages and by

pictures are

get to know

him through authority.

It doesn't rest there all

part of my lifelong passion and I've had the privilege of of training past

20 years Writing ministry because

our books and our you know, we can't go

and so Laura's enabled me to have really a global ministry

through great one thing that I forgot to mention.

Which is odd that I forgot to ask you this because I'm doing this debate coming up on

January 13th the Catholic versus Protestant debate.

How did your family react to your conversion and are they still Catholic?

Are you warmly welcome still in your in your family's homes and so on.

So I remember when I start the

Vienna International Chapel, which was evangelical church I

would come home for lunch on Sundays after that and sometimes there was this I see, you know, silence.

And I think she took it very hard just almost like sons or a family, you know because

of my conversion.

Mom, my father was rejected me for about 10 years not so much for religious reasons.

But because I went into the ministry and Wow worded me throughout my college education and then took it as

a personal.

You know a front that I kind of rejected, you know the career that.

He was back to my family in the short run.

But after those 10 years my father and I

think my mother once I became

a person that you know I thought ended up in some

Just I guess chose it, you

know, she follows.

Well, praise God and Yeah, different families react different ways some

Roman Catholic families if someone converts to Evangelical Christianity they write them off

for dead much like some within Orthodox Judaism.

Some of them Are very happy and rejoice for the mere fact that the person's life

was transformed.

I can say That my mother although when she went home to be with the Lord on her deathbed

For the last six weeks of her life.

She made it clear that she was trusting in the biblical gospel and she renounced prayer to

saints and so on.

She was praying exclusively to Jesus and trusting in his finished work on the cross alone for her salvation.

So I I know that she is in glory with him, but prior to that.

She was a very typical religious And superstitious Roman Catholic and prayed to

Not only Mary but her.

I think her favorite patron saint was st. Jude The saint of hopeless causes and I

think I was one of them.

And.

My mother was very happy.

There was a there was a part of her who that sent the mentally Was a bit sad

that I had left Catholicism.

Of course like as I said when she went home to be with the Lord she never even thought of that regret,

but She was happy and rejoicing because she knew of my rebellious

Wicked lifestyle that I was leading as a teenager and a man in my early 20s and

She was just thankful that the Lord had rescued me out of that.

So she was very happy That I was more in love with Jesus as an evangelical than I was as a

Catholic.

Yeah, that definitely resonates with me and that's been my experience as well and over time, you know if you have a

wholesome family and Strong marriage my wife and I've been married now for 27 years and

have four grown children.

Maybe abstract and you know hard for people.

It's hard to deny that as you mentioned that the gospel really

transforms lives for the better.

And I want to read just a couple of the endorsements that this book has received since they are fairly powerful

endorsements we have.

Paul Meyer professor of ancient history at Western, Michigan University.

He says this latest work on the incarnation and nativity is an excellent example of

serious scholarship.

Served up in a most readable manner.

No birth in history has had such prophetic preparation.

Which is a powerful central theme in these pages that celebrate the start of the greatest life

ever lived.

This is a welcome antidote to the cheap sensationalism in recent

books on Jesus that try to Demolish every reason for regarding Christmas as the

most wonderful time of the year.

What a great Endorsement from dr. Paul Meyer and also Daryl

Bach Executive director of cultural engagement and The Howard G

Hendricks Center and senior research professor of New Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary.

He says the first days of Jesus is a revealing book at the earliest days of Jesus in

Matthew Luke and John set against some of the skeptical takes on these passages

add to this a taste of Jewish messianic Expectation and you have a nice overview of the

start of Jesus's career and where it fits in God's plan.

Solid yet devotional.

It is a great introduction to the first days of our Lord.

And finally Robert W Yarborough professor of New Testament at Covenant Theological

Seminary Says the first days of Jesus combined scripture passages historical backgrounds

scholarly insight and practical Application to cast Christ's incarnation in fresh

light.

Few tasks are more urgent than for today's Christians worldwide to rediscover and deepen

their connections.

With their origins the book this book is a valuable resource for achieving that aim.

Like the star of Bethlehem itself.

This volume leads those who seek God to find him afresh in the events of Jesus's historical appearance.

The prophecies that preceded the Apostolic testimony that accompanied and the

social world that God split wide open when he sent his son.

Wow, that's a really powerful one as well.

Well, obviously this is a book that should be taken seriously and anybody listen

should make note of it and Perhaps order a bunch of copies of it for next

Christmas to give out to those you love.

With plenty of advance notice and perhaps even especially those that you know and love that do not

yet know Jesus.

But there are a lot of books About the Christmas story in print.

There are reams of them there that you could fill many many shelves of books

with books with the Theme on the Christmas story not necessarily all good, but

many of them.

Why did you find the need?

To write the first days of Jesus the story of the incarnation.

What void do you think this book fills?

We kind of backed into this by first writing a book on the

on the final week of Jesus in the Resurrection

and

Because we wanted to trip all the way to his birth and I

Think we also wanted to end that.

Christmas is more than just one day in the year.

Or you know one series of holidays,

but

centuries even millennia of messianic promises and

a little

more profound, you know, Mary and

Joseph and and the swathing cloths and the major and so forth and.

I was just wondering how much of your book is dedicated to the little drummer boy.

Just kidding.

Probably my least favorite Christmas carol.

Interesting.

You would mention that.

Well, you know something I actually I actually used that song

because I was asked to speak years ago at a conservative Baptist Association Christmas party

and They wanted me to do a stand -up comedy routine, which is something that I

happen to be known for.

But they also wanted me to conclude with something more serious and I actually took that song

and said well, we all know this song called the little drummer boy, which is just a Fairytale really it has

no place in history.

But I said I want to tell you about a real drummer boy that you can tell your friends about every Christmas in your loved

ones and your family members and I Went into the story of an actual

drummer boy in the Civil War Named Charlie Coulson.

I don't know if you know the Charlie Coulson story, but very briefly Chapel Library has a

Booklet about him that was written by a Jewish doctor Who converted to

Christianity in the 19th century who happened to be the surgeon taking care of this little drummer boy?

Charlie Coulson who was Dying of the wounds he received on the battlefield

He was the a drummer boy that actually Was playing the drums with along with the

soldiers to you know invoke More courage and things like that as they did back then.

And he received mortal wounds and while he was dying this little boy Evangelized his Jewish doctor

and that Jewish doctor eventually came to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ And wrote this little book about him

and it's all true.

So that's how I used Yeah that Little fairy tale

to bring people to a true.

Figure from history who was a drummer boy and you're right.

It's so hard sometimes to separate fact from fiction and you know and you

know

ultimately need to

make sure that what actually

happened exactly and.

There is a lot that is said during this time of year typically your major

television stations or at least major cable stations like the History Channel and

similar types of Stations they will air Documentaries

on Christmas they'll do the same typically for near the Easter season and you will typically typically have

liberal scholars on You.

You might occasionally have Roman Catholics also and and

liberal Protestants Mixed in with agnostics and atheists who happen

to be just historians like John Dominic Crossan is an agnostic he is with the

Jesus seminar and Bart Ehrman is an agnostic and He is also the

historian who believes that Jesus actually lived.

But a lot of these folks on these documentaries Will talk about that the

the Jews when it came to the virgin birth of Christ and the supernatural.

Connection they will they will just basically tie it in with the myths and legends of paganism

the the the mother and child Stories that have arisen from pagan cultures that

have to do with gods and goddesses and so on.

But if you could explain how this story is very different.

Absolutely, and you know, there's no way around this.

I think as Christians we sometimes forget that at the heart of truth of

the virgin birth.

And so we claim that that Jesus was conceived by No man, but

by the Holy Spirit

of both Matthew and Luke Bible believing Christian

and to deny the virgin birth.

That's just not possible because there's really no no doubt.

When you read the gospel of Matthew chapter 1 verses 18 through 25 or

Luke chapter 2 clearly

claim that Jesus birth was miraculous and that he had a human mother but he

had.

Intriguing.

When you look at Matthew's gospel and in the genealogy you have this long series of.

And so -and -so became the father of such -and -such and so forth.

And then at the very end in verse chapter 1 verse 16 if the

house Jesus was born and.

So you see how he?

Very elegantly really works a way of.

We already have a question from a listener in Youngstown, Ohio.

Pete.

Pete asks, how do you explain the discrepancies in the two infancy narratives in the

gospels of Matthew and Luke?

Well, I'd like to know which discrepancy because the way I look at it is there's different perspectives.

But I think what's really amazing to me is How much agreement there is in key details

you see in both that?

Jesus parents names are Mary and Joseph and that they're engaged but you know without having

engaged in.

Hello, dr.

Kastenberger for some reason.

Dr. Kastenberger is off the air and I don't know why.

We're going to have to get dr. Kastenberger to call us back and hopefully he will do that.

While we go on a station break, which is about the time that we normally go on a station break.

Anyway, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for dr Andreas Kastenberger

our email address is Chris Arnzen at comcast .net.

Chris Arnzen at comcast .net.

Dr. Kastenberger.

Hello, dr. Kastenberger thought that was dr. Kastenberger calling in.

The email address is Chris Arnzen at comcast .net.

And you could also call.

You could also email iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

Iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We are going to be right back with dr. Andreas Kastenberger.

God willing.

And more on the story of the first day of Jesus, so don't go away.

We're gonna be right back.

God willing after these I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio and here's one of my favorite guests

Todd Friel to tell you about a conference he and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched at TV and

occasional guest on Chris's show.

Think I think that's what it's called.

Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta my new

hometown.

It is going to be a bang -up conference called the g3 Conference

celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer

Steve Lawson d a Carson Vody Bokom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there.

Learn more at g3 conference .com g3 conference.

Thanks Todd, I think.

See you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega ministries.

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Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukins pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist confession of faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

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That's not the best recipe for popularity.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and I believe we have dr.

Andreas Kastenberger back on the phone, correct?

I'm sorry.

Yeah, I had you on mute there.

I'm sorry you back on the air with us.

Yeah, great.

And we are discussing for the full two hours today with 90 minutes to go the first

days of Jesus the story of the Incarnation and if anybody would like to join us on the air our

email address is Chris Arnzen at Comcast net.

One of our new email addresses Chris Arnzen at Comcast net and you can also Email

iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

Iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

And we already were in the midst of having Dr. Kastenberger answer a question

by Pete from Youngstown, Ohio.

And before we even go back into that I just have an announcement to make about The new radio

program a visit to the pastor's study.

Hosted by Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

It airs every.

Saturday.

From 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WL ie 540 a

.m. On the radio dial if you live in the New York Tri -State area.

If you live anywhere on the planet Earth and have a computer you can hear it via live streaming on

WL ie 540 a .m. Dot -com.

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That's a visit to the pastor's study hosted by Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and

He is receiving phone calls from you the listener every Saturday on

any question involving theology or Pastoral counseling and you may remain anonymous when

you call him as well if it's a personal and intimate and private matter.

But just make sure you tell Pastor Bill Shishko that you heard about his program from iron sharpens iron radio.

Now we return to Our discussion with dr Andreas Kastenberger about the

incarnation and as I said just a few moments ago Pete in Youngstown, Ohio Was asking you to explain the discrepancies

in the two infancy narratives in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

By pointing to numerous similarities and you know, this is just what you

would expect.

Of course anytime you have witnesses to give an event recount what happened.

You would you know have him tell it in in their own words and would tell the story, you know their own

way.

Selecting, you know certain key emphases and so forth.

But but what you would expect, you know.

Even when you have a court case and maybe you have different witnesses to a to a car accident.

You would expect that there would be agreement in some of the most salient details.

And this is exactly what you find in the case of Matthew's and Luke's accounts of the virgin birth.

They both affirm, you know, the names of Jesus parents.

They affirm, you know the birthplace some of the circumstances they both affirm the virgin birth

that Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit.

And so I think That ought to be the most striking thing that

ought to inspire great confidence in Scripture In us that that there's large

agreement on the details, right?

And I even know a Christian attorney.

Who has Said during public lectures on certain topics

involving his faith That in law if you have witnesses

eyewitnesses to a certain event or crime and they all tell you in the exact

same words what they saw They are immediately viewed as suspect for being

deceitful for being liars and some for some reason or in some shape or form

because people just don't do that.

And If the authors of the Gospels were in lockstep with their language and telling the

exact same story in the exact same way That they would be viewed as just

copying each other.

They're not saying anything that Contradicts one another even though people might

on the surface think that's what they're doing.

They're just telling the same story that has the same Facts involved in it, but from a different

view, am I correct.

Exactly?

Yeah, and so when you look at a little more close math and lose quite a

bit about them of course Matt Matthews background is he was a tax collector and he

You know was one of the Twelve Apostles part of Jesus's inner circle.

Jew Luke on the other hand was a medical doctor who's most likely Gentile.

He was not a member of the Twelve.

Probably not even an eyewitness.

This was quite a bit of what happened.

But as he explains in his preface to his gospel that he researched very carefully, you know

medical doctors need to be able to do The accounts of those who were eyewitnesses

and most likely that might even have involved talking to Mary Jesus's mother Elizabeth and a

number of other people who would have been in a unique position to Tell the story

to Luke and then he would be able to retell it to his to his to his readers.

Well, guess what Pete?

You have won a free copy of the book that we are discussing today by our guest.

Dr. Andreas Kastenberger and his Co -author, dr. Alexander Stewart.

The first days of Jesus the story of the Incarnation.

You've also won because this is a special Christmas program of iron sharpens iron.

You've also won an absolutely free new American Standard Bible.

This is their gorgeous compact edition.

It's got a beautiful cross embossed on the cover.

And I hope that you have many years of enjoyment from that Bible if you already have Plenty of

Bibles, please give that as a gift to someone, you know and love especially if they don't have a Bible.

So we are going to God willing have those shipped out to you after the Christmas

holiday next week perhaps sometime and These are being shipped out to you free of

charge by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com.

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service calm and we thank Todd and Patty Jennings at Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service for their faithful sponsorship of iron sharpens iron and For

shipping out all of our winners in the audience over the years and they're free

books Bibles CDs DVDs and everything else they win by submitting questions to us and thank you

very much Pete.

Keep listening to iron sharpens iron and Keep spreading the word about it in Youngstown, Ohio and and

beyond we have.

Let's see.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst Long Island, New York who wants to know

I have heard That the story of the three wise men.

Actually being at the side of the manger presenting their gifts to the baby Jesus is

not biblically accurate that when they came to him He was already a young boy and living

in the house of Joseph no longer in a stable.

Could you clarify if this is true and I have also heard that we don't even know the number of the

of the wise men.

Excellent.

Yes, that's a great question.

And it's very well informed and

yes read about those wise men in the

Gospel of Matthew chapter 2 that we have

for that story and First of all, we know they brought three gifts

Frankincense gold and myrrh, but mentions that in Matthew chapter 2 verse 11 he

doesn't necessarily say how many wise men there were.

I think people have inferred that.

Well.

There's three gifts.

So they're probably three wise men, but you know, there's no reason necessarily.

Why that had to be the case in many?

Cases.

People of that statue would have traveled with a fairly large entourage.

So almost certainly.

Regardless of how many wise men there were there were probably You know quite a few additional

individuals that were part of that.

But nobody wants to nobody wants to pay the money for the Hundred figurines that would have been an added to the major

scenes in their living rooms or their front lawn.

That's right.

So again, it's a good example of how you have limited information

In Scripture and then various legends grow and

really be Reliably verified.

Also the question of the the timing of the visit.

We we see in like the nativity story and other no depictions and of course the manger scenes, right.

The wise men right there at the birth, but again It's it's very likely that

They might have only visited, you know.

Several months if not, you know a year or two after the birth.

Because we see in Matthew chapter 2 verse 11 that they're going to a house now.

House is a different word in the original, you know like yeah, then, you know the

the end or the the stable that Where Jesus was born in.

And also it says there that they saw the child and again child is a different word by Dion

in the original from baby or infant.

And so Matthew chapter 2 verse 11 does seem to point to a

later time when that visit came rather than you know, right the day of

the birth and.

We have Joe in Slovenia.

Joe in Slovenia.

Says, please ask dr. Kastenberger to comment on his thoughts about why many question

the miracle of the incarnation as If it is unbelievable when they don't

question other miracles performed by Jesus during this During his incarnation.

Thank you for a great topic.

Skeptics or Agnostics, you know biblical scholars such as

John Dominic Croson of the Jesus Seminar or Bart Ehrman.

Who teaches at UNC?

They.

Approach script with what is often called historical

critical or I might even call it a skeptical approach.

In other words open mind especially open to the

possibility of the supernatural.

And to some extent that skepticism then affects pretty much everything they read.

So generally my sense is that those in the kinds of individuals

skeptical posture.

They would try to find natural as opposed to supernatural explanation for just about anything

whether it's one of the miracles Jesus performed or.

Also, I'm not sure if I found scholars be any more

skeptical Toward the virgin birth than any of Jesus other miracles.

I think it's a pervasive approach.

That pretty much affects the way they look at any instance of the supernatural in Scripture.

That's interesting.

You know, I think though.

If I'm not mistaken, I think I've very surprisingly and oddly heard John Dominic Croson

Who's an agnostic think?

Say something about.

He may actually believe in the possibility of the resurrection or something because of the

because of the phenomenal Response to the Christian community after that

occurred where people were willing to risk their lives.

To follow Christ in great numbers, but I don't know if I can't verify that.

But I thought that that was.

I remember something odd about the inconsistency.

Yeah, I think the other thing to be said there may be that Typically the way those

people try to verify information in the Bible is but if

they can find any You know legendary or mythical

or take that to the Bible and say well Maybe you know

and it would gain added credibility in their eyes Because it's mentioned in other

writings of the same time period.

Of course, I don't think that the truthfulness of Scripture rests on whether or not there's some extra

physical parallels.

In many cases Scripture Claims that something entirely unique happened

In the life of Jesus.

We haven't even talked about the Gospel of John that goes even further back and says that only was Jesus

Miraculously conceived in their zone.

He actually pre -existed with God from the beginning Before the world was created.

That's a very important.

Yeah, that is a very important Aspect of the the Jesus story.

Because there are cults that claim to be Christian who believe that Jesus did not exist

in eternity past.

But arrived on the scene when he became man in in the womb or in the manger.

After the incarnation.

They think that that's when he arrived on the scene, but that is not the case at all.

Exactly, and that's I think why the the Gospel of John is so important.

And I think our book is in three parts Matthew Luke and John and I

think especially the section on John is fairly unique because I think most books naturally would gravitate toward

the Infancy narratives in Matthew and Luke and overlook John.

And I think you know for us that's a That's an omission that is.

That we tried to remedy by but by pointing out that in some ways John Who I believe

wrote last after Matthew and Luke and who may well have known the Gospels of you know

according to Matthew and Luke Tried to show the background and then actually

deliberately Didn't just repeat their infancy narratives.

But went further back to to almost like correct an impression that could be given that Jesus

Began his existence in Mary's womb.

And by the way, Joe and and CJ earlier.

I think I forgot to tell CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York Both CJ and Joe you have won a

free copy you have each won a free copy of the first days of Jesus the story

of the Incarnation by our guest Andreas Kastenberger and dr Alexander

Stewart his co -author and You are also both getting a free new

American Standard Bible because it's Christmastime and we're giving you something extra That we

want you to either Cherish and use yourself or if you

have scores of Bibles already if you could give it to somebody that you love.

It's a it's not a cheap paperback Bible.

Although every Bible is a precious Gift and contains the life -giving

words and the gospel of Jesus Christ but this is a very beautiful Bible that you could actually

give as a gift and People won't think you swiped it from a hotel room or something.

It's it's got a cross embossed on it.

And that's thanks to our friends of The New American Standard Bible that thanks to our friends who publish the New

American Standard Bible Who have been sponsoring this show ever since we began broadcasting in

2006 and we thank them for their loyalty to us.

But we need your mailing addresses and we thank you Joe in Slovenia for providing an American

mailing address where your daughter lives.

To spare Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service of the enormous cost of shipping things overseas.

So, thank you very much Joe in Slovenia.

And thank you CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island as well and

The well tell us more about the gospel of John which

That is a wonderful gospel because it contains so much doctrinal truth in it

that you know you could if you Didn't have a whole Bible to give somebody if you

had just the the gospel of John in a tract form or something.

I mean it contains so much of everything that is needed to know for salvation

and to know about The one who we are to worship Jesus Christ.

Tell us more about the The gospel of John and why it is so important and

why it even goes deeper than the other narratives.

Yes, I think probably the most distinctive features that he boldly asserts the deity

of Christ throughout his gospel.

He begins and ends with a clear Affirmation of Jesus deity.

And not only does he in the beginning Say that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God

and the Word was God.

But also he ends with Thomas's confession of Jesus as my Lord and my

God.

Which is really striking.

And even when it comes to the trial before Pilate After

the Jews try to present Jesus as a common criminal You know to

sway Pilate's judgment Claiming that that Jesus was some sort of a of an

imposter Roman Emperor.

If that when that doesn't work They come right out and say in chapter 19 that well The

real reason why we want Jesus executed is because he being a mere man Claims

to be God.

And so I think John You know with a single focus

they worry on the claim that Jesus was not a mere human but that

he was God incarnate.

Amen.

And.

Let's see we have We have let's

see we have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and.

And.

BB says.

I have heard recently that Andy Stanley the son of the

world -renowned Charles Stanley Made comments that whether or not you believe

in the incarnation story that Jesus Christ fully God was

conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary Miraculously apart from any

normal physical relations between Mary and Joseph and that she that

Christ was born of a virgin that This part of the the story of

Jesus's life is not Essential and that the resurrection is really the

only essential Aspect of the life of Christ.

Is this totally out of line for a man like Andy Stanley who should know better

to say such things.

Are not the Incarnation and resurrection equally important and valuable in the whole story

and are they not both?

Inseparably connected to the gospel itself.

The short answer is yes, I You know was certainly troubled when I heard that statement

Earlier today and I in fact alluded to Andy Stanley, I didn't want to

mention by name but early in their broadcast where I talked about individuals who

Claim to be Bible -believing Christians, but then back away from the miraculous nature of the

virgin birth.

So, of course, we always need to be careful when we were not present or having to write a

statement in its, you know full context it You know to some extent I would

Before making a final determination look at that statement in context to understand

The intent but at least from everything I've seen I'm very

concerned and I've also seen that Albert Muller who's the president of Southern Seminary

has given a very Strongly worded and pointed response to any Stanley

statement as well Along the lines that it's unacceptable

to basically You know diminish the importance of the virgin birth.

There's this classic work by Jay Gresham Machen on the virgin birth and I think to this

day it stands as a as a testimony to the to the great

importance, of course if Jesus was not miraculously conceived in Mary's womb

then he was not God and then he could not you know

sufficiently atone for our sins and so that's how the virgin birth and the crucifixion

the resurrection are interrelated to each other and None of them is necessarily more

important than the other.

Right because.

The main thing is that the God -man Rose from the dead and you have other people who are just

men Rising from the dead.

You have Lazarus Rising from the dead.

You had a number of people rising from the dead at the crucifixion of Jesus.

And you have other you have Jesus raising people from the dead.

You know, so I mean obviously.

The incarnation is and is quite a valuable aspect of this.

And it just seems to be another example of modern evangelicals Who

think that they can cleverly? use wording and

presentations to convince dead lost sinners of the truths of the

gospel.

By changing or leaving out or softening things that are recorded in Scripture.

And it.

Really I think unfortunately can be traced back to Arminian ism really

because it's if you are an Arminian and believe that any human being can be

convinced of the truths of the scripture in the gospel.

Then you're going to more likely become very pragmatic in the way that you

evangelize and that's why you have all kinds of gimmickry and.

A really.

Modern novel inventions of men that where they try to win sinners to Christ and

all kinds of of Really ridiculous ways and of course, they wouldn't even call them sinners very

often.

They even downplay that aspect of it.

But but very true.

I think you know, like I mentioned earlier we we need not and should not be embarrassed by the miraculous.

That's at the core of the Christmas story and I think at best it betrays

the

identity of Jesus as the God -man as you mentioned and.

Well, thank you BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Give us your full mailing address BB.

Because you have won a free copy of the first days of Jesus the story of the Incarnation.

By our guest. Dr. Andreas Kastenberger and his co -author. Dr. Alexander Stewart.

And you're also Because it's Christmas getting a free copy of the New American Standard

Bible.

We usually only give those Bibles out to first -time questioners.

But since it's Christmas, we're giving that out to everybody who wins the book today

because it's Christmas and we also want you to.

If you don't already or should I say if you do already have a Number of

Bibles, in fact, perhaps you even have this same edition on your bookshelf or on your desk

already.

You can give this as a gift to somebody else.

So.

Obviously, we would hope you give it to somebody who is lost somebody who doesn't even own a Bible.

But whatever you choose to do with it.

That is up to you and we need your full mailing address and it will be shipped to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Cvbbs .com.

Cv for Cumberland Valley bbs for biblebookservice .com.

We're going to another break right now.

If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is chrisarnson at comcast .net.

Chrisarnson at comcast .net.

Our gmail account for chris arnson is still frozen by google because of overuse.

So use chris arnson at comcast Dot net or iron sharpens iron radio at gmail

.com.

That is one of the gmail accounts that's still Working right now.

Iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're going to be right back.

After these messages with the second hour of our discussion in the first days of jesus.

With dr. Andreas Kastenberger.

Don't go away and send in your questions as soon as you can.

Chris arnson here and I can't wait to head down to atlanta, georgia, and here's my friend.

Dr.

James white to tell you why.

Hi.

I'm james white of alphanomega ministries.

I hope you join me at the g3 conference hosted by pastor Josh vice and praise mill baptist church at

the georgia international convention center in atlanta January 19th through the 21st in

celebration of the 500th anniversary of the protestant reformation.

I'll be joined by paul washer steve. Lawson d .a. Carson voddie. Balkan conrad and bayway

phil Johnson rosaria butterfield todd friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the

pillars of what g3 stands for gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3 conference .com.

That's g3 conference .com.

Thanks james.

Make sure you greet me at the iron sharpens iron exhibit booth while you're there.

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Welcome back.

This is chris arnes.

And if you just tuned us in for the full two hours today with one hour to go.

Our guest is dr Andreas kostenberger and we are discussing his book the first days of

jesus the story of the incarnation.

If you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at comcast .net.

That's chris arnson at comcast .net or iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

Iron sharpens iron radio gmail .com before we return to our discussion.

I just want to remind you although christmas is already Uh two days

away and you don't have time to purchase christmas gifts.

For those you love in time for christmas unless you're going to be meeting up with people A week or two after

christmas that you're bringing presents to.

But please remember for all occasions such as this including

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Even if it's just because you want to tell somebody that you love them or you care about them.

Or you want to tell them that you're sorry about something.

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By having their their front porch repaired or giving them a new roof that they need or whatever the case is

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Iron sharpens iron radio .com.

But we need the support of advertisers like those that you hear.

And we need the support of those listening and I thank From the depths of my heart all of you who are

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Who have been ordering books?

And and patronizing the sponsors of iron sharpens iron.

Uh, and those who have sent in personal donations.

That means more to me than I could possibly describe.

And I and I really mean that from the depths of my heart and I thank you very much.

And you know if you listen to this program that I am not Begging for money every time we're on the air.

I hardly ever do if as you uh will recall.

It's actually probably just a couple of times a year that I do that a few times a year.

But anyway, I really appreciate all of you who help us remain on the air.

And uh, if you could, uh uh, dr Kostenberger if you

could go into the some of the other elements.

About the few days of jesus the first days of jesus that

some folks who are Not very familiar on an in -depth level with the scriptures

they have a cursory knowledge of what the christmas story is about that even most of Humanity has some

kind of kind of an idea of the story.

Uh, even if they are not christians, but if you could tell us some of the things about what you have recorded in your book.

That may be overlooked or unknown to the average person.

Absolutely, so, you know matthew is the first gospel the new

testament and uh, it's placed there because it gives

us as God's promise

to his people to To send his his deliver.

And uh, matthew, uh says that jesus is the son of abraham or the descent of abraham

the son of david uh, and so.

Uh, it follows on the heels of the entire old testament showing that that jesus.

Uh.

His his pedigree his human ancestry reaches all the way.

And maybe for us that's a small thing but for his jewish readers that was a that was a

huge and very important Argument to make that that

jesus is son of abraham who had actually come

at the end of of time and history to redeem his people.

Uh, and then you see at the end in matthew's, uh family tree of

jesus that there's several rather unusual because

typically women would not be mentioned because the The the family line was typically traced through the

father uh, but bathsheba ruth tamar and rahab are all

mentioned as well, of course as uh, mary.

And so the the question often is why those five women agree.

But I tend to think that a likely explanation is that in one way or another

Either the the appearance of scandal or real scandal attaches to each of those

five Women in case of bathsheba.

It was her Or david's adultery with her in the case of ruth.

It was Her being alone with boaz on the threshing floor that that

one night and Him whisking her off early in the morning, even though nothing's actually

scandalous had occurred and so forth.

Rahab, of course was a prostitute but One that that protected israel's spies and so

forth.

And so I think matthew's pointed this is not the first time in israel's history that at least the appearance

of scandal attached to an ancestor of the messiah and so this is some sort

of a an apologetic in favor of the virgin birth if that makes sense that

just because There was some question as to Who the real

father of jesus was god's people should be open to the possibility that matthew's actual account of the

virgin birth Is true that jesus was actually conceived by god the father through the holy spirit

in mary's womb.

We have chris in runnels, iowa.

Who says would you please ask?

Dr. Kostenberger how we can best exalt the glory of god becoming man

while preventing Superstition.

Not really quite sure what he means by that.

I know that there are Uh ridiculous accounts of jesus as a young

boy, uh in the in the gnostic gospels.

But uh, i'm not really sure what he means.

Maybe you would have a better understanding of what he means by that exalting the glory of god becoming man while preventing

superstition.

I think uh, because

that

was very much

restrained.

The just

deceived

by the holy,

you know interplay between

jesus

deity,

but also his is

not like

sanity.

Intended to be historical narrative of what the gospel writers Really

believed which included

god's intervention into human history by sending the messiah by doing so through supernatural

means.

Well, thank you very much chris in runnels, iowa and uh, we are going to send you a free

copy of this book that we are discussing the first days of jesus and a new american standard

bible.

That you can either keep or give to someone else as a gift.

For your question today, uh, and we wish you a merry christmas.

And we thank you for contributing to today's show and hope that you Continue spreading the word about iron sharpens iron

radio in Iowa and beyond.

And we thank once again, uh crossway the publishers of this book who have donated the copies to us.

And also the publishers of the new american standard bible for providing The bibles that we were

also giving away.

And by the way, you can go to nas bible .com for more information on the new american standard

bible nas bible .com and also Cumberland valley bible book service once again

is Cvbbs .com.

One thing I don't want to forget, uh, if you ever want to give a wonderful gift to your church if your church

happens to Perhaps not be financially blessed and the bibles that are in your

pews are falling apart.

Or perhaps you your pew bibles are from a translation uh that a

a church committee picked many years ago and your church is no longer happy with the translation

that is is used in the in the pew bible why not contact

nas bible .com if you have the financial means and purchase new

pew bibles for Your church from this publisher nas bible .com.

Nas bible .com and tell them certainly that you heard about the new american standard bible.

From iron sharpens iron radio.

We would appreciate that.

Um.

We have uh rj in white plains, new york.

Who wants to know the one thing I cannot wrap my head around?

Is that the baby in the manger was?

Eternal god in flesh.

And that mind in that baby, however was not quite

The mind of an infinite being who knew all things the mind had to grow in knowledge.

As that child grew I just don't understand this.

And of course the jehovah's witnesses and others will point to these things as reason to discredit

The doctrine of the deity of christ.

Does your guest have any?

Explanation I can give when confronted with this biblical fact.

Yes, so luke, uh at the end of the infancy narrative, you know after the 12

year old jesus visited the temple You know the verse luke 2 52 says.

And jesus increased in wisdom and insight god and man.

So Uh, certainly the bible does affirm that that jesus, uh, you

know developed as As an ordinary human being would and uh,

I would not want to reduce that mystery clearly

uh, we're dealing here with with theology with

with uh With the supernatural first one

to acknowledge that there's limits to it to understand.

Uh, you know the the interface, I mean, how can we really rationally?

Understand the trinity, you know, uh completely or even the way in which

Uh the humanity and the deity of christ, uh coexisted In one person the lord

jesus christ.

I would just point out that uh, while I don't fully understand how that can

Uh happen I don't have any problem with with

understanding that jesus could Uh take on human nature.

And part of that would be for him to develop as an ordinary human being.

Even though uh You know, it doesn't lessen the

degree or the extent to which he was god.

All the way through that process.

Well, thank you rj for the excellent question and.

Give us your full mailing address there in white plains, new york, and we'll get you a free copy of this book.

That we are talking about, uh, the first days of jesus and also a copy of the new american standard bible.

Thank you very much for contributing to the program with your excellent question.

And uh, we have david in ada, ohio who is Asking

about something that we already discussed but he is just asking a different aspect.

Uh of a question on a disparate different aspect of it David and ada ohio says is it

possible?

There was a lot.

Of.

The gold frankincense and myrrh so much.

So that they would be able to live off of it while in egypt and i'm assuming that would

be uh that Mary joseph and the the child jesus could live off of it.

I'm assuming that's what he means.

So did a brink's truck back up to the manger?

Drop off gold and a lot of other stuff there.

Uh.

Dr. Klostenberger.

Well, it's actually a good question and it's one that i've never really thought about.

So, um you know

well in each.

Because they're obviously.

Acknowledgement of the fact that this was no ordinary baby.

Uh, I don't think any of us really know or can know.

There's a lot that we really don't know and I think that's the kind of thing, you know, when you watch any of the movies, uh,

uh, you know surrounding the birth of christ, uh.

Filmmakers always have to creatively.

And the gaps in the.

And fortunately as a biblical scholar, I don't have.

Affirm that what the text does say has been given to us by god and it's sufficient for.

Not to necessarily, you know answer all our questions in every detail.

Uh, but but but simply to present jesus as the messiah and as the savior, uh,

you know, so that we can believe in him for

gospel narratives rather than You know satisfy curiosity.

Not that it's wrong to ask those questions.

It's just important to acknowledge that we don't know all the answers.

Well, thanks dave and you've also won a free copy of the book and a free copy of the new american standard

bible.

Thank you For contributing to the program with your question and please spread the word.

Continue spreading the word in ohio and beyond.

About iron sharpens iron radio and uh well this uh book as

you were Saying earlier you you have it broken up in three major

Sections the virgin born messiah the light of the nations and the

incarnate word.

Now, what did you mean in the first section?

Of the book by a conflict between two kings and the two kingdoms.

That's a great question something that I I kind of had missed for many years and

working on the book it it became clear to me that Both matthew and

luke Have this implicit and sometimes not so implicit contrast between jesus on the

one hand and then herod Even caesar

augustus on the other hand.

To show that jesus no ordinary king

and in many ways.

And christians believe that in contrast to the political

ruler of today.

Um.

There's some very striking parallels between uh caesar augustus for example who issued that famous

Decree that uh sent jesus' parents to bethlehem.

He was said to usher in a golden age an age of peace he was

even called the Divine son or the son of god on some coins that

we still have today.

And so, uh, you can see how for christians, uh, it's very important to realize that

in very in a very real way uh, jesus Uh turns

into this world.

He put him on a collision course, you know of

this world We know in england

is not of this world uh, but nevertheless

between the the political Authorities even the jewish

authorities and of course probably the most important

Teaching that jesus gave was that of god.

Which is of course a I think

that's already Intimated and founded as a very important aspect of jesus coming

In the birth narratives and one that we often overlook, especially as we tell the christmas story and.

One of the things that makes Jesus so much

universally Adored or the jesus story Is the fact that

he is a meek and mild and helpless little baby in a manger.

And.

People often forget.

Especially when we're talking about those in rebellion against god that he is no longer this baby in a manger.

He is a wrathful god that takes sin very seriously.

And he when he returns Is going to be a god returning With

vengeance upon the enemies of his people.

And wrath poured upon those who have rebelled against him who will no longer at that point

have any time to repent And flee to him for refuge and salvation.

The christmas story Should never just end in that manger should it.

The importance of uh.

What you might call biblical theology something that starts at the beginning right

there in the book of genesis.

Where?

God promises Uh the first adam and eve that

that he would uh, you know would crush the head of satan On the one

hand.

And then you see jesus coming really at the center of human history.

And then as you mentioned the return at the second

coming.

Coming no longer as the lamb, but as the line of judah the one who is the rider and the white horse who

Who comes not just in salvation, but also in judgment affected

him and listening.

Who.

Is to be considered that jesus will come again.

He will each one of us will have to give an account to him uh

for what what we've done with what he's done for us on the cross, which is Given his life so that we could

have eternal life.

Yeah, I'd like you to think about before we uh,.

Go to our break and you think about them actually during our break because i'm going to go to our final break right now

I'd like you to be thinking about The specific prophecies that jesus has fulfilled

uh from the old covenant.

Why People why are jewish friends and loved ones and neighbors and acquaintances?

Why they should be compelled to believe this jesus is In reality a fulfillment of the

promised messiah that their prophets uh foretold uh

in the uh, the hebrew scriptures.

And that is of course for those jews who take Their word the hebrew the hebrew scripture

seriously uh and why we should be Uh ready to

have these things on our On our fingertips and the tips and on our tongues when we are

talking to our jewish friends during this time of year many people because of the politically incorrect climate

Of not only our nation, but the globally politically correct Oppression that we have

where people are very nervous To talk about these things to people with different

differing religious views when the height of love Is to inform

people Of theological error that will damn them.

I can't think of anything that is more loving when done in a loving spirit and for a godly motivation

uh than to warn somebody and seek to rescue them out of A belief system or

life that is sending them to hell.

But if you could uh during the station break consider some of the prophecies that jesus

Specifically fulfilled and we're going to be Going to that final station break right now.

And if anybody would like to join us during the final half hour of the program.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We will be right back with dr. Andreas kostenberger in the first days of jesus.

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Welcome back.

This is chris Orens and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 25 minutes to go

Is dr. Andreas Kastenberger.

We have been discussing his book the first days of jesus.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

I'm, sorry.

I'm giving the gmail address chrisarnson at comcast .net.

Chrisarnson at Comcast .net or iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

That one's okay.

Iron sharpens iron radio at gmail .com.

And before we go to any listener questions, uh, dr. Kastenberger before the break I asked of you to.

Uh gather together some of the jewish prophecies from the old covenant uh that

uh foresaw and foretold the coming of the messiah if you could.

Unveil them

now

virgin.

Isaiah 7 makes that exact.

Little details like

the slaughter of the infants led to

egypt by jesus and his parents in hosea 11 1 The fact that

gentiles come and bring gifts the wise men.

Is that uh.

Seems to be uh harking back to the coming of the queen of sheba to solomon and I believe it's

first 10 jesus ministry in galilee.

Nine.

And uh natural manifestations.

Surrounding the birth of jesus.

The star bethlehem.

Multiple angels appearing to joseph in the dream. I think at least three times.

The baby itself.

Lying in a manger.

Certain circumstances.

That helped the shepherds find him.

The story of mary uh in luke chapter one.

Pariah hannah.

And uh surrounding the birth of god's plan

of salvation as well.

Who anointed the first two kings of israel.

For anyone who's jewish, I think it'd be really Uh important for

them to realize it before the birth of jesus.

In fact In the quran library the famous dead sea scrolls we have

Manuscripts that attest to the fact that Like isaiah 53, for example already

was written and existed before jesus.

To the fact uh write up

striking.

And I think you It really is important for people

to realize uh, and so is it not more likely

that that god has an integral part in In sending jesus in keeping with

with a whole web of prophecies that span Many centuries.

Isaiah, for instance wrote in 800 bc a full Uh 800 years before

the birth of jesus and he already predicted uh, the virgin birth the suffering

and the resurrection of jesus.

Praise god.

And um.

One of the things that has been brought up to me by an orthodox jewish friend of mine regarding the

virgin birth.

Uh, he approached me.

Sort of puffed up thinking that he was going to deflate one of the primary

teachings of christianity.

By saying did you know chris?

That in hebrew the word there in isaiah.

When it refers to a virgin conceiving that can mean in hebrew just a young

girl.

It doesn't have to be a virgin.

But I said to him Uh in response, how is that a sign?

If a young girl gives birth.

When.

Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of young jewish girls were giving birth.

Because normally during that era of humanity.

Uh girls were married sometimes by the time that they were, you know, 15 years old.

Uh, so he and he actually.

Uh.

Stopped dead in his tracks act like acted like he never heard that before and he said yeah, you're right.

Sadly, he's not a christian yet.

But.

But if you could comment on that.

Yeah, it's true.

And in the book we spend quite a bit of time.

Obviously, that's the whole passage in understanding the.

Uh, of course, uh with it as with any biblical prophecy.

You have the original prophecy when it was first given and then you have the fulfillment, you know.

Sometimes centuries later as also in this case and so in the original context in isaiah's day

about 800 bc.

Um.

It does talk about a young woman uh, and it's true that uh, it it could simply

refer to uh, you know, uh not necessarily a literal,

uh virgin, but a young woman but Um and and again in in context it

refers to secular war and and and god delivering

his people.

But I think what matthew claims is that that prophecy was uniquely fulfilled.

In jesus in the way, he was not fulfilled in anyone else.

And so it's what scholars often call typology, which means that in the old testament you see some sort of a pattern

Foreshadowing of something and then it comes true in history in an escalated

uh dramatic way.

Uh in a way that is is really unprecedented, you know, one of the

things that uh is coming up.

Uh as a as a very crucial aspect of the debate on january 13th

between roman catholic theologian robert singenis of catholic apologetics

international And dr. Tony costa of toronto baptist seminary Is one of the main

aspects of that debate which is on the theme.

Mary a sinless queen of heaven or or sinner saved by grace is the doctrine of

the immaculate conception taught by the roman catholic church and it is Amazing to me

how many people both catholic and protestant Think that is referring

to the virgin birth of jesus christ.

And his his being conceived in the womb of a virgin and conceived without sin

and remaining sinless.

Uh.

For his the the entirety of his life and being obedient to his father.

But that is not what the catholic church means by that doctrine or dogma.

The immaculate conception they actually mean that mary Was conceived in her womb Free

from sin, although they do not believe that mary's mother was a virgin who conceived.

But if you could Uh contrast that yeah false and heretical

teaching which robs jesus I think of his majesty and uniqueness and the and the

uh, true virgin conception and birth of christ.

Yeah, you're exactly right chris and I think uh, it's just a fact that uh, that for many roman

catholicism.

Uh, you know, they're not.

Thoroughly familiar foundational doctrines and it's a good example of.

Of.

The biblical then being taken.

Beyond what the text actually explicitly affirms and and then traditions grow over the

centuries in some cases some of those doctrines were only Enunciated by the

roman catholic church, maybe 100 or 200 years ago, especially with regard to uh, mary.

Yeah, they're really fairly recent.

Um the assumption I think wasn't it just in the 1950s that was made.

That's right.

The uh, the ascension of mary and so forth and so it is just part of this process of almost some sort of a

deification of mary almost as if she were the fourth person of the trinity based on

a veneration of mary that goes way beyond the Depiction of mary in

scripture as yes a young girl who had amazing faith and who was willing to let her life

be completely uh, you know derailed humanly speaking uh by

uh god's mission for her and so I think for for women mary can be a tremendous

role model in the In incredible faith and submission to god's will that she exemplified

without going to the unbiblical extreme Of claiming that she was not sinful that she

You know ascended to heaven and a variety of other doctors that she had no further children beyond jesus

her so -called perpetual virginity and so forth, uh,.

What uh, did you mean in your uh, section on light to the nations.

Two miraculous conceptions, uh coming off the.

The uh.

The comments that are just made.

Well in luke chapter one that he has this parallelism

going on between john the baptist the jesus forerunner Who was born I think about six months or

so

most likely mary's cousin and and the mother of john the baptist and then

Jesus is implying in the book is that John the baptist and

jesus birth were on the exact same level in terms of the miraculous nature of their births.

Clearly john the baptist was not Uh the product of a virgin birth or

section by the holy spirit in elizabeth's womb but what we are saying is that Uh,

and the

very fact that she could conceive a miracle in

that god overrode and suspended, you know normal.

Uh.

The age of childbearing in in elizabeth's

case and

The work of god and I think that's part of

also messiah that god was at work in the events surrounding the

birth.

Including the circumstances surrounding the birth of his forerunner, uh, john the baptist.

Yes.

Uh.

And just like uh abraham's wife, uh.

Exactly giving birth quite past the age that is biologically typical.

Right.

And of course you have Uh something quite miraculous

uh in the fact that there was something about the fetal john

the baptist that was aware of whom he was.

He was near when elizabeth and mary were Were near each other.

He leapt for joy in elizabeth's womb.

Right, uh, and we don't really know all of the All of the depth of what that means.

But he certainly obviously if he had joy There was some kind of a an acknowledgement

Supernaturally that this this uh fetal john this young child in the womb

was aware of the majesty and glory of the messiah that was.

Within uh an arm's length of him.

Exactly.

And so you see that the the infancy of Narratives in in matthew and

luke are just with uh, the miraculous and the supernatural.

And I think that's just uh.

So important for what happened historically.

Believe and the bible witnesses to the fact that that god was at work.

In salvation history centrally, uh in and through the birth of jesus christ.

In fact, I think that uh Verse is one of one of the most powerful verses attesting

to the importance of the pro -life movement.

Yeah, uh attesting to the fact that that is a human being in the womb and to

abort such a Being is nothing short of murder.

In fact, gruesome grotesque butchery and murder to to the

most helpless.

And fragile and innocent among us.

And of course i'm not saying you know People don't jump on me about the innocent aspect.

I'm not saying that Babies are free from original sin or anything like that, but they are

innocent of anything that would demand them being murdered.

Exactly.

Uh, but anyway, um.

This has uh been such a fascinating, uh discussion.

I I definitely want to have you back on the program again.

That's for certain.

Um.

But uh if you could uh.

Discuss a bit before we run out of time uh.

About god at work again at last.

Deliverance for israel and israel's restoration.

Right again, we need to realize this, you know, probably many of us are non -jews that that jesus was the

jewish messiah.

He he came first and foremost to israel.

And he was only after the jewish nation represented by its leaders rejected him as their messiah.

That he was crucified.

And then the book of acts tells us that this is what what triggered the pouring out of the holy spirit.

And all who believe and then the mission.

By the early church to the ends of the earth.

So there is a as well and then to the

gentiles link

between God choosing one people the people of israel.

But then wanting israel to be a blessing and a channel of blessing from god to all the

nations of the world.

And.

Israel, of course failed in that mission and this is where jesus then steps in as.

The.

Prototypical israelite and he Uh to be that

Uh through home the son of abraham through to then extend

salvation not only to the jewish people But also to those who are not jewish like

myself and probably most of us.

Well, uh.

There was a lot more that we could talk about from this book.

But I would like you to conclude with the king's rejection and return.

Of course, we've been discussing a king in a manger That other kings gave

honor to when he was a young boy uh, and that he

Uh is no longer as we had discussed earlier, uh, he is no longer a harmless

helpless king.

Uh, no longer a a cute cooing baby uh, he is a

wrathful king.

That is coming with vengeance.

And a thing that is very rarely discussed from pulpits today or in In the

one -on -one evangelism of christians.

Sadly, we have created a Jesus that is only suitable for greeting

cards and for warm and fuzzy sentiments.

But if you could tell us about the king's rejection and return.

Yes, that's sometimes something that uh, you Mentioned that we we we

try to suppress especially at christmas time.

We want this to be a time of harmony and a time of peace and yet Uh the the way the

gospel writers tell us to

be rejected luke tells us that there was no room for jesus in the end and uh

I think it's simeon in in luke's gospel who tells mary that his sword will pierce her

heart Prophetically predicting the fact that that she would be

grieved when when she sees her son crucified.

And um, I think it's fitting to to close with the gospel of john.

He probably wrote last among the four gospels and I think he had That unique hindsight and he

wrote that jesus Was in the world and the world was made through him yet.

The world did not know him.

He came to his own and his own people did not Receive him, but he doesn't stop

with in what is the climax of this prologue?

But to all who did receive him who believed in his name he gave the right to become children of god.

And that is the christmas story that that jesus demands a response from all of us.

He didn't just come for himself he came uh to die on the cross for us and this is how the

the birth of jesus and the the crucifixion of jesus are Inextricably

Linked and how it is impossible to divide the two events.

They belong together and and they demand a response not of rejection.

But of reception and the choice is really up to you and to me.

Uh this christmas and really any day of the year.

Well, I would like you to now for five minutes before we end the program just summarize what you most want

etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about this uh, very important

Event in history.

And its importance today over 2 000 years later.

Uh, the the things that you most want our audience to be left with before this program is over.

Thank you very much, I think um.

One thing that uh really strikes me is that in the end christmas is a call to witness

uh, you

know the

the lowly shepherd

their bearer of

jesus for

christians.

About saying

in my Study and my reflection in my meditation about uh, the significance

of the way

matthew and luke

that Christmas is not this we just ought to

enjoy in our own.

Well, I really thank you so much for being a guest on our show.

Uh, dr. Kastenberger.

And I hope that you come back soon and often to the program.

Thank you.

Uh, I want to remind our listeners if the if you didn't have a chance to win this book today by

submitting a question.

That you can uh Purchase this book from cumberland valley bible book

service.

It's published by crossway and you can purchase at cv bbs .com.

That's cv for cumberland valley bbs for biblebookservice .com.

So I hope that you uh, not only purchase one for yourself, but even those of you Who

have won this book?

I hope that you purchase it for others.

And perhaps even with plenty of advance.

Notice now you could purchase them for next christmas.

Or even those you are visiting during the christmas season after this sunday.

You perhaps could get it in time to give it out to those that you will be gathering

To celebrate this holiday after the actual day itself, which many people do.

So go to cvbbs .com.

And order this book and and whenever you whenever you go to that website if you don't see A

book listed that you want to order you just tell them anyway, and they will order it for you.

And you will get a very good price on it.

Uh, other than that, I know that your biblical foundations website is biblicalfoundations .org.

Biblicalfoundations .org.

Do you have any other contact information that you care to give?

No, but I think it's important to notice that we have a lot of Resources associated with

both the first days and the final days of jesus including video content interviews Blogs and so

forth on that website as well.

Great.

Well, uh, I hope that you all visit that website often biblicalfoundations

.org.

And just keep spreading the word about the upcoming Catholic versus protestant debate

at the carlisle theater.

And that is between as i've been saying roman catholic apologist robert syngenis of

catholic apologetics international.

And it's kind of interesting how his last name is a roman catholic.

It's interesting that syngenis I believe is the greek word for cousins.

Which is the word that should have been used if the catholics were right.

That the brothers and sisters of jesus were his cousins and not his real brothers which is a

claim they make.

Um but uh robert syngenis is the catholic debater opposing dr.

Tony costa of toronto baptist seminary on mary sinless queen of heaven.

Or sinner saved by grace at the carlisle theater on friday, january 13th.

And you can go to iron sharpens iron radio .com for more details.

Also, don't forget the day before that for any of you men in ministry leadership at the

carlisle vault the catering hall in carlisle, pennsylvania.

We're having our iron sharpens iron pastor's luncheon, which is absolutely free of charge.

And every man in ministry leadership that attends will get a free sumptuous gourmet meal.

Free books from nearly every christian major christian publisher in the united states in the united

kingdom and a What i'm sure will be a powerful message by dr.

Tony costa the keynote speaker at this luncheon.

I hope that you all have a safe and blessed and joyful christmas.

I look forward to hearing from you next week with your questions for our guests.

And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater

savior Than you are a sinner.

Merry christmas to all of you and happy new year, and I look forward to hearing from you next week.

God bless you and spread the word about iron sharpens iron and more importantly spread the

word about the incarnate king whose birth we celebrate and the gospel without

which we Cannot have eternal life.