WWUTT 1220 Q&A Rebuking Jon Steingard, Unconditional Love, If God is For Us?

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Responding to a letter written by Hawk Nelson supporting Jon Steingard, where does the term "Unconditional Love" come from, does the Bible talk about it, and is God for everyone? Visit wwutt.com for all our videos!

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Lead singer of the Christian band Hawk Nelson, John Steingard, made a declaration online that he no longer believes in God.
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His bandmates at Hawk Nelson have responded to his letter, but it's not very biblical when we understand the text.
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Many of the Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we understand the text is an online ministry committed to teaching sound doctrine and exposing the faulty.
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Visit our website at www .utt .com. Now here's our host, Pastor Gabe Hughes.
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Thank you, Becky, who is not in studio with me today. I know I hear the disappointment in your sighs, but she has a migraine that has been brought on by what we believe to be allergies.
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When we go out of this area, she's fine. But when we come back, she's got a migraine again. So be in prayer for her and for our oldest daughter,
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Annie. She's also had a bad cough lately, and we think it's also the result of something that's in the air. So I'm sending both of them to the doctor today.
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Pray that some sort of remedy can be discovered. This is the
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Friday edition of the broadcast, and we respond to questions from the listeners on Friday. You can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.
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I'm going to be responding to some comments and some questions today. Last week, we did not respond to any letters from our listeners, even though we said we were going to.
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What we replied to was a statement from John Steingard, the lead singer, if not now the former lead singer of the
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Christian rock band Hawk Nelson. Via Instagram, he had written a letter announcing that he was no longer a
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Christian. Even more than that, he didn't even believe in God anymore and expressed some of those doubts that he had.
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Becky and I read about two thirds of that letter and responded to it, but then
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I responded to the whole thing word for word via my blog. Now since all of this broke, this has actually become pretty big news.
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You can read it in a lot of places, Fox News, CNN. I saw Good Morning America or something like that.
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They had an article on it as well. It's apparently big news now that a lead singer of one of these popular
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Christian rock bands has come out as no longer a Christian and more than that, even a straight up atheist.
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So I wrote a blog responding to John Steingard's letter word for word.
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I copied the whole letter and I responded to every part of it and I wrote it as an open letter to John Steingard and he did respond to it and I'll read you that response in just a moment.
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Because this went so viral, because there was so much news out there about this statement that Steingard had made, that actually made the blog that I wrote explode in popularity because a lot of folks were
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Google searching John Steingard letter and they were coming across my blog because I was one of the earliest persons to respond to it.
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So there's been a lot of traffic to my blog as a result of this and we've received a lot of emails, comments via social media and I'm going to respond to some of those things today.
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But first of all, now if you didn't, if you didn't read the blog, you can go to PastorGabe .com
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and it's there. It's not the first article that's on there because I've written some other things since, but you'll find it there at PastorGabe .com.
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You're looking for the open letter that I wrote to John Steingard. But like I said, he replied to it.
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He responded to my open letter. I tagged him in it to be sure that he was going to see it and it was just a little bit more than an hour after I published it online.
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Here's the response that I got from John Steingard via Twitter. He said, Hey man, you seem really angry.
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I'm sorry. I clearly offended you deeply. Christian or not,
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I suspect we would have always seen things differently. I wish you the best man. And then
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I replied to him and I said, John, I clearly qualified the letter as stern as an older brother warning a wayward younger brother and that I spoke out of affection and concern.
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But I didn't get any further reply from him after that. Now there were some people who witnessed our exchange on social media and they agreed that what
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I wrote was stern, but it wasn't angry. However, John says there,
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I'm sorry, I clearly offended you deeply. I would agree with that. He did indeed offend me on several different levels.
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First of all, he acknowledged that he didn't believe anymore, but he continued to put on the
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Christian facade to make money off of Christians so that he could provide for his wife and his child.
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He admits in his letter, in the portion of the letter that Becky and I covered last week, he admits in his letter that there are other pastors and teachers who feel the exact same way that he does, but they're afraid of coming out about it, acknowledging that they're not even really
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Christians anymore, nor would they have ever been in the first place. They've been using
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Christianity to make a living off of it, to make money off of it, but they don't actually believe it, which is a lie.
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And they are sons of hell producing more sons of hell. Exactly what Jesus said in Matthew chapter 23.
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So, yes, I'm offended by that. Why would I not be offended by that? Furthermore, the way that John misrepresented scripture, misrepresented
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Christ, the basic tenets of Christianity, probably misrepresented his father -in -law in the way that he talked about his exchange with his his wife's father, who was also a pastor, probably misrepresented him.
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I don't know that for sure, but it may not have been a fair representation of the conversation that they had.
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And furthermore, that John misrepresents my savior. Of course,
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I'm going to be offended at that misrepresenting the word of God and things that the
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Bible says. He didn't even clearly articulate statements that are made in scripture.
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This is a guy who is the lead singer of a Christian band, which doesn't say much, unfortunately, but he is the son of a pastor.
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He himself is a PK and his wife is a PK. He talks about growing up in this stuff.
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So he asks a bunch of questions that lead to his doubt, but never talks about actually seeking answers to those questions.
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At no point in his Christian walk does he believe these basic aspects of the
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Christian faith were ever answered for him. So he could never have been a
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Christian if he doesn't even understand the basics. And that's a lot of what
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I talked about in my letter that I had, my open letter that I posted online.
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So, yes, I'm going to be offended by those things. And any Christian should be when the word of God is so misrepresented like that and when
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Christians are being used and manipulated by people who are basically posing as Pharisees, which
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John Steingard did. And I'm going to talk about that a little bit more as I respond to some of these comments that I got.
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Of course, we should be offended by that. Jesus was offended by that. See, what's even worse than me being offended is that God is offended.
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And that's my deepest concern regarding John and his wife and his children is that more than my offense, my offense doesn't matter.
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God is offended. And if you don't repent of your sin, this apostasy, this waywardness, which isn't cute, it isn't something to pat a guy on the back for.
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Oh, man, I'm so sorry. I love you anyway, man. I hope you find yourself.
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What you know, that's not the way that we should treat this. This is a life or death issue. And some of the articles that I have seen published in response to John Steingard's apostasy.
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Well, I'm talking about like the mainstream articles, stuff like Fox News, CNN, Good Morning America, whatever it was.
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Any of these articles will feature comments from well -known
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Christian artists, guys like Jeremy Camp, Matt Hammett, who was the former lead singer of Sanctus Real.
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I know there are two of them. I can't remember who else. I think one of the guys was the former lead singer of Every Day Sunday.
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He left that band and came out of the closet, declared that he was a homosexual. So, of course, he's going to be on John Steingard's side.
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Anyway, a lot of these guys came out saying, hey, we love you, John. We're praying for you, brother.
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It was a lot of back patting. And that's not going to get this guy from the direction he's going to coming back to the path of righteousness.
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Really, it's a bunch of people telling him what you're going through right now is OK, and it's not.
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It is deadly serious and not just deadly in this life.
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We're talking about eternal ramifications to the things that he's entertaining, not only bringing these things upon his family, but upon many, many fans who had been following Hawk Nelson for years now.
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And Becky and I mentioned this last week, their music really was a mile wide and an inch deep.
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I mean, as far as theological depth was concerned, it just wasn't there. And that's the majority of contemporary
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Christian music. You don't turn on K -Love in order to hear good Christian music.
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You you turn on K -Love to hear Christian music, maybe. I've listened to some songs played on K -Love that didn't even have a lick of theology in it at all, didn't even mention
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God. So it's kind of a toss up when it comes to American evangelical contemporary
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Christian music is even less Christian than it was 20 years ago, back in the time when I was in Christian radio and playing a lot of these songs.
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So a lot of this is just patting John's back and saying, oh, it's OK, man. Hey, we all kind of go through our struggles.
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I hope you work this out. In fact, even the band Hawk Nelson responded to John Steingart.
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And this is a response that came about just a couple of days ago, also made via Instagram. And it's very kind of sad how none of John's brothers in this band really seem to be all that terribly concerned, at least according to this letter.
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Here's what we have from Daniel, Micah and David, the remaining members of Hawk Nelson.
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Here's what they said. And by the way, this was also via Instagram. One of our best friends, one with whom we have walked, worked and lived alongside for 20 plus years, revealed some of his innermost feelings on his faith journey this past week.
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Our mission is Hawk Nelson has always been to inspire and encourage all people with the truth that God is for them and not against them.
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In that message is most simple and purest form that they matter.
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So now we turn that truth toward one of our own, that God is still for John and he still matters.
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Why? Because that truth doesn't change just because we question it. How we treat one another when they are at a different stage in their journey based on their life experiences is part of a bigger conversation.
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We are called to love one another unconditionally as God loves us. We should also encourage and challenge one another in our faith seeking truth.
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Are we the authors of our own salvation and eternity? Has God provided a way to salvation for us through Jesus?
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These are the questions that we each must ask and explore. In the
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Bible, Romans 8 38, Paul writes, I am convinced that nothing can separate us from God's love.
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Neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow, not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love.
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No power in the sky above or in the earth below. Indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus, our
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Lord. The same Lord is Lord of all and gives richly to all who call on him for everyone who calls on the name of the
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Lord will be saved. Ever thankful and grateful for how God has used this band, the music and the relationships and how he continues to do so.
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Daniel, Micah and David unquote. Okay, let's go back through this statement that Hawk Nelson has made via Instagram.
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So they say our mission as Hawk Nelson has always been to inspire and encourage all people with the truth.
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That that what God has provided the way of salvation through Jesus Christ, our
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Lord, I mean, shouldn't that be as a Christian band, shouldn't that be first and foremost to proclaim
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Christ? Wouldn't you think that that would be the number one mission of a
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Christian band? But that's not their number one mission. That is not ultimately what they desire is to proclaim
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Christ and glorify him. That should be the number one mission of of a
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Christian band to proclaim Christ. That's not what they say. Our mission is
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Hawk Nelson has always been to inspire and encourage all people with the truth that God is for them and not against them.
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In that message is most simple and purest form that they matter.
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Well, I would certainly agree that every person matters and we should take the gospel to every single person.
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I have never preached anything but that. But to say that our first and foremost goal, our utmost mission statement should be to tell people that God is for them and not against them.
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That is not biblical. John 3, 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
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For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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Now, that sounds like God is really for us. It even sounds like he's for all of us for God's who love the world, right?
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But you can't stop reading their verse 18, whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in him is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only son of God.
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Now, tell me, does that sound like God is for everyone?
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Every single person on planet Earth is God for everyone. No, in fact, he is not.
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Our default state is that God is against us because as you go down further in John 3, 36, whoever believes in the sun has eternal life.
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Whoever does not obey the sun shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
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Not that it comes upon him. It remains on him because we are born in sin.
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Our natural state is in rebellion against God. This is everyone.
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This is me, folks. OK, this is not me sitting here on this side of the microphone talking about how much more righteous
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I am than the guys in Hawk Nelson. I am a sinner in need of a savior. I rebelled against God.
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I went my own way. I talked about it in the podcast yesterday, my tendency to go my way and do my thing and chase after the passions of my flesh.
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That's who I was. But God was gracious to me. He was merciful to me.
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I don't know why he saved me except for the praise of his glorious grace. But he called me out of darkness into his marvelous light.
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And by the regenerating power of his Holy Spirit in my heart, I turn from sin and I walk in righteousness by the power of God and to the praise of his name, not to the glory and praise of Gabe Hughes.
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God is awesome and merciful to me, and I'm amazed at this every single day. I'm not perfect any day of my life.
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Never have been. I need a savior every day. Not that I'm constantly recommitting my life to Christ as though, well,
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I'm not a Christian today. I'm going to go to hell if I don't commit my life to Christ. It's just understanding my weakness in my flesh.
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I would never be able to sustain myself if not for the glorious power of God. And so daily in obedience to the scriptures,
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I am taking my mind and submitting myself unto Christ.
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The instruction in Romans 12, 1 and 2, in view of God's mercies, therefore, my brethren, commit yourself unto the
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Lord, commit your bodies unto the Lord as a spiritual sacrifice, as a living sacrifice, for this is your spiritual act of worship.
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Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
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And then you will be able to test and approve God's good, pleasing and perfect will.
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This is a daily thing. Jesus saying, if anyone would be my disciple, if anyone would come after me, this is
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Luke 9, 23. He must deny himself, take up his cross daily.
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And follow after me. And something that I could tell from John Steingard's letter that he wrote via Instagram and even this response that comes from Hawk Nelson, something
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I recognize is that they have not counted the cost. They have not considered the cost of what it means to follow
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Jesus. And my friends, you must consider this also. Jesus talks about this in Luke chapter 14, beginning in verse 25.
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It says great crowds accompanied him. Great crowds are there before Jesus.
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And what does Jesus do? Does he look at these crowds and he says, oh, boy, these these people are just seeking something.
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So I need to to give them something that is attractive, that they will love, that will keep them here so that they might be able to find the truth.
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They might be able to find themselves in this wonderful, attractive thing that I'm going to provide for them.
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Jesus turned around and said to them about the most unattractive thing that could be said to them, at least according to the world's standards.
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He did not look at them and soft pedal the gospel in any way, shape or form. He didn't give them soft, cushy, comfortable teaching that they could lay their head on like a nice soft pillow and go to sleep.
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No, he gave them hard truth that caused many of them to turn away and stop following him. Now, great crowds accompanied him and he turned and said to them, and let me ask you this,
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I would I would ask the guys of Hawk Nelson this. Have y 'all ever said to your crowd or to your audience what
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Jesus says to the big crowd following him here in Luke 14? Here's verse 26.
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If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
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Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
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For which of you desiring to build a tower does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it.
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Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying this man began to build and was not able to finish.
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And my friends there, there are people who were upset at me for what I said in my email, CNN, NBC, Fox news.
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Good morning, America. All these other sites that are posting this stuff from this particular artist who's left his faith.
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They're all mocking him. Even the atheists who will say of John Steingard, Hey, good for you, man.
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I'm glad you're asking those questions. They're not actually congratulating him. They're mocking him because he was never actually in the faith was never actually a true
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Christian to begin with. The atheists recognize that, but there are many people that are, that are upset at me because I said that John was a liar for pretending to be a
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Christian when he was not. Anyway, I'm going to get to some of those responses in a moment. Let's continue with the word of Christ verse 31 or, or what
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King going out to encounter another King in war will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with 10 ,000 to meet him who comes against him with 20 ,000 and if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
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So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
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Jesus is, is putting in front of his audience there, consider the cost.
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Now I will tell you that if somebody presents to you the offer to follow
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Jesus, you absolutely should take it for it is the greatest offer that could be ever given to you.
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God offering his son for the forgiveness of sins. However, I will also say to you, it is not the easiest thing to accept for following Christ comes with much struggle and much hardship.
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As a matter of fact, your life is harder following Jesus than it was before you started following Jesus.
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Jesus says as much in the sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapter seven, where he describes following him as the difficult road.
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Wide is the way and broad is the path that leads to destruction. And many will find that because that's the easy way, but narrow is the road and long is the way that leads to life.
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And few will find that because that's the difficult path. So Jesus says, enter through the narrow way.
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John has chosen the broad path and many others are going to walk it with him.
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And he is leading many astray because that's the easy way. And he has always taken the easy way based on his letter.
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When he was talking about his Christian upbringing, he was taking the easy way back then was never actually counting the cost and considering what it means to truly follow
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Jesus. Hawk Nelson, the rest of the guys in Hawk Nelson appear to be doing the same for they are soft peddling their very mission as a
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Christian band instead of proclaiming Christ, telling people to repent of their sin, to put their faith in Jesus and they will be saved.
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Instead, they're just going to say that God is for everyone and not against anyone. And in that message is most simple and purest form that they matter.
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Yes, my friends, you do matter. But as Paul articulates in Romans chapter three, verses 10 through 12 together, they have become worthless.
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You were made in the image of God, but you desecrated that image with your sin and you have become worthless, you have made yourself worthless, fit for destruction to be tossed in the fire and destroyed.
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And that is what God is going to do with every person who continues and persists in that unrighteousness that God's wrath is upon.
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If they die in that state, they don't go to glory with God. They go to eternal punishment and eternal torment, which
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Jesus himself said he would do to those who did not do the will of his father in heaven.
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Matthew chapter 25. These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life and the righteousness we need, as I said before, comes not from ourselves.
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It is given to us by God, by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's continue on here with this response from Hawk Nelson.
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So they go on here. So now we turn that truth towards one of our own again, the truth that God is for them and not against them.
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We turn that truth towards one of our own, that God is still for John and he still matters.
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I agree that John still matters. It's why I wrote my letter, because I believe him in.
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I believe more deeply than John does. That his soul matters.
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For I see the eternal ramifications of what he's doing, and John just kind of flippantly thinks it's no big deal.
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So I have a greater concern for his own well -being and his wife and his children than he does.
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Not that I'm saying John doesn't love his wife and his kids, and not even that I'm saying that I'm providing for his wife and his children, and he's not.
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That's not at all what I'm articulating, but rather that John has not counted the cost.
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He did not count the cost of what it meant to follow Jesus, and he's not counting the cost of what it means to not follow
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Jesus. And even the kinds of ramifications that this will have on his own household and the people who looked up to him.
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So going on with this letter, so we turn that truth towards one of our own, that God is still for John and that he still matters.
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Yes, he still matters, but God's wrath is upon John because he does not obey the son,
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John 336. And then Hawk Nelson goes on. Why? Because that truth doesn't change just because we question it.
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Now, understand what Hawk Nelson is saying there. It would be really difficult not to draw from that statement a declaration of universalism that everybody gets saved and goes to heaven.
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Everybody just automatically goes to heaven. They say here, the truth doesn't change just because we question it just because John is asking questions and he is saying here now that he doesn't even believe in God anymore.
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The rest of Hawk Nelson is saying, well, God is still for John, and that hasn't changed because of what he said.
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Now, I kind of understand where they're going with this, but it would be really difficult not to draw a conclusion from that particular statement of universalism.
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Everybody's going to heaven anyway. God is never going to cast John into hell. That's what it sounds like.
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Hawk Nelson is saying they would have to articulate that a little bit better to clarify what it is that that they're saying.
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But I highly doubt this band would ever talk about something like that. Doesn't seem like it to me anyway, that they are interested in telling people the truth about their sin and the wages of sin and that the only salvation from sin and and eternal destruction is faith in Jesus Christ.
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It just doesn't seem to me like Hawk Nelson is interested in telling anybody that if they ever have.
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So we go on how we treat one another when they are at a different stage in their journey based on their life experiences is part of a bigger conversation.
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That is just a bunch of nonsense gobbledygook that doesn't say or mean anything, how we treat one another at different stages in their journey as part of a bigger conversation.
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That's just basically saying we're not really going to address the stuff that John talked about. Going on, we are called to love one another unconditionally as God loves us.
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Where is that in the Bible? We are called to love one another unconditionally as God loves us.
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Where is that in scripture? Where has God said that? Where does this concept of unconditional love come from?
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It's not in the Bible. You won't find that phrase anywhere in the Bible. Now, somebody might say, well, agape love, the
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Greek word agape means unconditional love. No, it doesn't. It does not mean unconditional love.
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It means benevolence or favor or showing goodwill. It does not mean unconditional love.
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You know where you got that from? Probably. I don't know this for sure, but you probably got it from C .S.
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Lewis, from his book for loves. I think that was the earliest place that I can think of anyway, where that where it was said that the word agape means unconditional love.
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That's where you got that from. But that's not what agape means. Sometimes the word agape can be used in a negative sense, depending on the context.
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Let me give you an example. In Second Timothy, chapter four, this is Paul's last letter before he's about to be martyred.
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He's telling Timothy, I have fought the good fight. I am ready to be poured out as a drink offering.
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He's asking Timothy to come to him before his last days. And he mentions to Timothy that Demas, who previously had been mentioned in Colossians and in Philemon, in a favorable sense that Demas was part of Paul's missionary group,
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Demas deserted Paul in his darkest hour in his prison cell.
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He deserted Paul and he went back to Thessalonica. Why? Why did Demas desert
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Paul? Do you remember? It's because he was too in love with this present world.
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Do you know what the word the Greek word there for love is? It's agape. Demas agape to this present world.
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And he deserted me and went back to Thessalonica. Jesus also rebuked the
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Pharisees because of their agape. This is in Luke 11, 43.
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Woe to you, Pharisees, for you agape the chief seats in the synagogues.
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You love you have favor toward the chief seats and the respectful greetings in the marketplaces.
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So in that sense, Jesus is rebuking the agape that the
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Pharisees had. And I think you would agree that that the Pharisees love for those chief seats and those high places in the synagogues was not an unconditional love.
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In fact, they loved those things because of the conditions that were included with that.
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They they get the chief seats because of the recognition that they get from people or that they feel more important.
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They get to lord themselves over other people. That's why they loved the chief seats in the synagogues.
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So that was not in any way an unconditional love. That was that's not what agape means.
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In fact, this term unconditional love comes not from the Bible. It comes from an atheist, a
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German psychologist who was his name was Eric Fromm. He published a book back in the 1930s called
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The Art of Loving. And it's there that he talked about or he coined this term unconditional love as being the highest form of love because it is a love without conditions.
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But even many of Fromm's own colleagues disagreed with him on that.
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There's there's there's room for biblical disagreement. Absolutely. But his own psychology colleagues disagreed with his take on unconditional love being the highest form of love.
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In fact, some even argued that's not love at all, because unconditional love could even lead to things like Stockholm syndrome, where a kidnapper kidnap somebody and then the person that they kidnap ends up falling in love with their kidnapper.
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That's that's what we would refer to as Stockholm syndrome. That would be one of the terrible consequences of unconditional love.
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But the impact that this has biblically, we can see as well. It would basically mean that the commandments of God are void.
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There would be no need to ever obey anything from God if he just loves us unconditionally because he loves us without condition.
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So we can live however we want and God is still going to love us.
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And see, that is part of John Steingard's problem. No matter what decision he makes, whether to believe in God or not believe in God or follow
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Jesus or not follow Jesus, if he believes in the same unconditional love that Hawk Nelson is peddling in this response and we have all reason to believe that he does, then it doesn't matter whether he walks away from the faith or not, because if God is loving unconditionally, then it doesn't matter whether I'm a
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Christian or not. He's just going to accept me into heaven and there's no need for me to obey the commandments of God or understand any of the basic tenets of Christianity because God's love is unconditional and that is not biblical love.
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R .C. Sproul has said the following, people are not afraid of the wrath of God anymore because preachers, quote unquote, are out there telling people that God loves them unconditionally.
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It is a a wretched doctrine from the pit of hell to tell people that God loves them unconditionally.
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God loves you on the condition that Jesus Christ has died for your sins and the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to you by faith in Jesus.
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My friends, those are conditions you must believe in Christ by faith in order to be saved.
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And furthermore, along the lines of those conditions, you evidence your faith by living righteously.
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If you can articulate who Jesus is, why he came and died for us, if you can give some sort of scholarly theological definition or explanation for the
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Trinity, if you can define Christ as prophet, priest and king, but knowing these things has not transformed your life at all, then you do not actually have faith.
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For faith without works is a dead faith, as it says in James chapter two, there are going to be works that do not save you.
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Our works are never the cause of our salvation, but they are going to be the evidence of it. And if you are a follower of Jesus and you have his righteousness imputed to you, then you are going to live in a righteous way.
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These are all conditions. But what God demands of us, he gives to us, he demands righteousness of us, he gives righteousness to us through his son,
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Jesus, the imputed righteousness of Christ, so that you may live in a righteous way that is pleasing unto
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God, our savior. We are told in Romans chapter eight, whoever does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
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That's a condition. You must have the spirit of God in order to be saved. God does not love you unconditionally.
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And if God's love was an unconditional love, then his commandments would be rendered null and void and inconsequential.
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And we've wasted a whole bunch of space in the text of scripture by ever articulating a single commandment of God.
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Yet Jesus said in John 14, 15, you will show me that you love me when you obey my commandments.
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Yes, my friends, God is love, but that is not all he is. He is also just.
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And in fact, Psalm 711 says he is a righteous judge who feels indignation every day.
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God hates sin. And you would never be able to stand in the presence of God if it was left up to you and your own standard of moral goodness.
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You are acceptable in the eyes of God because of what his son has done for you.
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And you receive his grace, his mercy, the righteousness of Christ, which you are clothed in when you believe in him by faith.
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If a person does not follow Jesus, the wrath of God remains on them.
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And if these three guys from Hawk Nelson, Daniel, Micah and David actually cared for their friend
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John, they would tell him that. And they're not. They're patting him on the back and congratulating him for his apostasy.
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So they go on in this particular letter, they say, are we the authors of our own salvation and eternity?
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Has God provided a way to salvation for us through Jesus? These are the questions that we must ask and explore.
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Well, there are answers to those questions, just like John Steingart in his letter asked a bunch of questions that he didn't ever actually answer.
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Nor does it even look like he explored the answers to. He wasn't even looking for those answers.
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He's a PK and should know the answers to those questions. Furthermore, he's a full grown adult.
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My friends, he's almost my age. He's had more than enough time, especially as a guy who's grown up in the
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Christian faith, to look up the answers to these basic tenets of Christianity. He's never considered the cost.
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He doesn't even know who this Jesus is that he said that he used to follow. He has never actually considered these things that he has said that he believed.
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He said these things in his letter, never sought answers for them. Now we have Hawk Nelson asking ambiguous questions that they don't answer either.
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Are we the authors of our own salvation and eternity? No. The answer to that question is no.
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I don't know if they're presupposing the answer to that, that you just automatically know the answer to that. But that's the answer.
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And I don't even know where Hawk Nelson stands on that question because of the way they worded in this letter. So then going on to the next question, has
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God provided a way to salvation for us through Jesus? Yes. Yes, he has.
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But they don't say that. Do these guys ever share the gospel? Do they even know what it is?
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They go on to say, these are the questions that we must ask and explore. Amen.
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I've been doing that my entire life. I have been exploring the answer to that question for as long as my parents have been teaching me about God, Christ and the
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Bible. Now, this is, again, all to the praise of God's glory and grace, not because I am anybody great or some great spiritual explorer.
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It is because God, in his mercy, saved me from my sin and gave me the righteousness of his son.
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So I know God has provided a way to salvation through Jesus, and I've been exploring how awesome and masterful that is for my entire being.
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Even when I was going astray into my sin, it revealed to me, looking into God's word, looking at who
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I was, looking at who he is in his holiness, it revealed to me how sinful I am and how in need of a savior
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I am. And I have contributed nothing to my salvation but the sin that required the death of Christ on my behalf.
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That's all that I've contributed to my salvation. It is the sin that made salvation necessary.
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So Hocknelson goes on here. In the Bible, Romans 8, 38, Paul writes, and this is from the
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New Living Translation, is why this sounds so odd. Anyway, I am convinced that nothing can separate us from God's love, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow.
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Not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love, no power in the sky above or in the earth below.
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Indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus, our
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Lord. Amen, my friends. But who is Romans 8, 38 written to? Christians.
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Is John Steingard one of them? No, by his own admission, he's not.
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He will not be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord, if he was actually in the love of God through Christ Jesus, our
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Lord, which, according to his statement and what we were clearly able to read in his letter that he posted on Instagram, he never was.
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And 1 John 2, 19 once again says that they went out from us so that it might become plain that they were never of us in the first place.
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Jesus articulated this in his very his very first parable, the parable of the sower in Matthew, chapter 13, that there are going to be those who look enthusiastic over the word of the kingdom for a time, but they're going to wither away and die because they had no root in themselves.
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They were never actually planted in the good soil. They fell among the rocks or they fell among the thorns like Demas did.
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And all the cares of the world ended up choking the word. And it proved to be unfruitful. Jesus had talked about those who were truly believers and those who were not in his very first parable.
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And we can see and read clearly from John's letter that he was never a follower of Christ, never knew
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God, never and never even knew the Christ of the Bible or why he had to die.
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He said that in his letter. Why did Jesus have to die? If you don't know the answer to that, how can you call yourself saved?
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And my brothers and sisters, I say this to you so that you will not take for granted your salvation, but you will likewise explore the things that John Steingard never explored and may never explore unless God is merciful to him and turns his heart and heart back to a savior who saves.
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And he will know Jesus for the first time because he certainly never knew him before. How do you understand the answers to some of these basic questions that are asked in Christianity?
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You need to be catechized. You need to go to a good catechism. And I would say the simplest and easiest catechism to go to is
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Keach's catechism. Now, many will say that's a rip off of the Westminster short of catechism, certainly.
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But it's shorter. It's even shorter than the Westminster shorter catechism. So read Keach's catechism and you understand the basics of what our purpose is as human beings in this world.
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What are we supposed to be doing in this world? Who is Jesus? Who is God? Who is the
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Holy Spirit? Why do we need a savior? These questions are answered when you go through catechism.
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Yes, you can read them in the Bible, but then you have those catechism questions that narrow down some of the the deeper, broader theologies and and and doctrinal understandings that we have.
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According to scripture, the catechism is in scripture, but it helps us to understand scripture.
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What's the significance of the virgin birth? You get that from catechism. How do you articulate the
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Trinity? What is the relationship from the son to the father? These these kinds of questions are answered through catechism and you got to be catechized or you end up apostatizing and becoming like John asking stupid questions that you should have known the answers to.
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If you're going to claim that you grew up your entire life in Christianity, he is a mockery of the atheistic world because this guy claimed to be a
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Christian for 30 plus years and didn't even know what the religion taught. There are atheists that know more about Christianity than John Steingard does based on what we read in his particular letter.
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So going back to Hawk Nelson's letter, here's how they concluded. Here's the final paragraph.
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The same Lord is Lord of all and gives richly to all who call on him for everyone who calls on the name of the
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Lord will be saved. Now, they quote that, but they don't give the reference. It's Acts 221 and Romans 10, 13.
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But once again, John Steingard is not calling on the name of the Lord. He never has called on the name of the
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Lord. He is outright saying he doesn't even believe in a Lord, doesn't believe in God.
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And yet, what does Psalm 14, 1 say of such a man? The fool has said in his heart that there is no
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God. He's a fool. He's not wise, but so many people are congratulating him for his wisdom because of these questions that he is asking.
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So then the final statement here from Hawk Nelson, ever thankful and grateful for how God has used this band, the music and the relationships and how he continues to do so.
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My friends, unless Daniel, Micah, David and also John repent of their sin and come to the
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Lord Christ and love the gospel and proclaim it through their music and the opportunities that they've had as a band, and they also seek the forgiveness of people whom they have led astray, whom they've manipulated to make money off of and yet had never preached the gospel to them, unless they repent of these things.
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Here's how God is going to use that band. He's going to use that band to bring into judgment those who loved unrighteousness rather than Christ.
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And that is a scary place to be. That is why I wrote the letter that I wrote, because these guys are standing in judgment.
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I know they're playing with fire and they don't. And yet there were so many people who were mad at me over the things that I said.
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Here are some of the comments that I received as a result of that open letter that I put on my blog.
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This one comes from Kelsey in Dallas. She says that John Steingard finds scripture to be fallible.
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So quoting verses at him won't work. I'm a believer, but I, too, take issue with scripture.
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The Bible may have divine inspiration, quote, which she puts in quotes, but it was ultimately written slash rewritten by imperfect man.
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His concerns are valid and enforced by many modern Christians. Now, again,
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Kelsey claims to be a Lutheran church council member, but she also identified herself in her profile as she slash her.
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So I have to use this she slash her pronouns when I'm addressing Kelsey. I think that gives you an idea of where her worldview is.
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But anyway, she says that scripture John Steingard believes scripture to be fallible.
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So quoting verses at him won't work. Well, then I've got nothing to stand on if that's going to be the case, because as Romans 10, 17 says, faith comes by hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.
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We've got the word of God and we don't have anything else. I've got no wisdom to share with anybody.
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My desire is only that a person would know the word of God for, as it is said in Romans 1, 16,
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I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
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First Corinthians 1, 18 says for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved, it is the power of God.
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It's foolishness to John Steingard because he's perishing. And I pray that God turns his heart to Christ instead of away from him.
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This next comment comes from Kaylin. She says, Gabriel, there is more than one way to God.
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And maybe John Steingard is found another way. God seeks you wherever you are, regardless of religious ideals and doctrine.
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Instead of judgment, you should be giving him support. Well, that's what the rest of the guys in Hawk Nelson certainly did.
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I went to Kaylin's profile and she has quotes from the Dalai Lama on her page that gives you an idea where she is spiritually.
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I would agree with Kaylin in this sense. Yes, all roads do lead to God, but only one leads to salvation.
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All the rest of them lead to judgment. Everyone will stand before God on the day of judgment, but only those who believe in Christ will be saved.
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John 14, 6, Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father, but by me.
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This next comment comes from Deborah. This was actually a positive comment. Your letter is perfect pastor for not coddling him, but telling him the truth.
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He is without excuse. I appreciate that, Deborah. I don't know that I would call my letter perfect, but I do thank you for reading and for giving me encouragement.
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This next comment comes from Matthew, who claims to be a minister in Long Island, New York. He says it was the wayward son who found his way home while the stern older brother never entered the celebration.
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Oh, the irony, Matthew. I say to you that you do not understand the parable of the prodigal son, which of course we read about in Luke chapter 15.
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If this was the kind of scenario where John Steingart had repented and became a
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Christian and I'm sitting over here in the corner with my arms cross going instead of celebrating the fact that he became a
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Christian, then your comment would make sense, but John is not.
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He is not the prodigal son who has returned to the father. We're still hoping that that's going to be the case, but no, he's, he's renounced that he even believes in God at all.
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Next comment comes from abandoned South Carolina, and I'm not going to mention who this is because I'm just not going to give them any recognition.
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Wow. Gabe, way to double down on the insulting condescension. If you're asking yourself why people are leaving churches, just take a look in the mirror and see for yourself.
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On the contrary, John Steingart is the reason why people are leaving churches because they were never actually
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Christians to begin with. First John one 19. Once again, they went out from us so that it might become plain that they were never of us in the first place.
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This next comment comes from another band. This one in Florida, this kind of response.
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Referring to me, this kind of response is why so many atheists and others who don't meet your ideals from all walks of life and orientation simply don't put it out there to begin with.
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They keep it to themselves and it is torture. You have a friend in me, John Steingart, very proud of you.
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I don't really understand what that comment means. So going on to Chad and Arlington, Virginia, the accusation of lying in this letter saddens me to accuse someone of lying.
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If they genuinely believe something at the time is a bold claim, it's assuming, you know, someone's mind, beliefs, intentions better than they did slash do.
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Well, first of all, I would say that a lie is a lie, whether a person knows it's a lie or not. So it doesn't matter if John was deliberately manipulating somebody or if he was lying and just not aware that he was lying.
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It's still a lie. So it, it, that doesn't matter. His intent doesn't matter, but he did admit.
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He admitted in his own letter that he did not believe, but continued doing what he was doing so that he could make a living out of it and provide for his wife and his child.
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He lied to people. He may not have used that word, but he admitted that he lied going on to Bob in Atlanta, Georgia.
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You were very upfront about your stern tone. I'm curious why you chose to use that tone rather than one of understanding your tone implies that you cannot fathom the idea that someone may have questions about God and our relationship to him, which
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I'm sure you disagree with. Well, the reason why I use that tone is because John Steingard knows better folks.
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You got to consider who my audience is here. I'm not talking to some high school kid who's really struggling with trying to make sense of the things that he's reading in the
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Bible and then sitting down with him and walking him through the pages of scripture and helping him understand the gospel. That's not who
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I was talking to. I was talking to a guy who spent his entire life as a Christian, who was the son of a
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PK, who is married to a PK, who stood in front of audiences and proclaimed a love for Christ that he never actually believed in.
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Even when he knew he didn't believe it, he continued saying it. That's who I'm talking to.
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This is a man who needs rebuke, not a guy that needs to be patted on the back and going, oh, you're asking questions.
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Well, good for you. That that is how you lead a person to hell. That is how you pat their back to hell.
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You're patting them on the back as they're walking through the gates of hell. My friends, that is not the way that we should be.
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Yes, as it says in Second Timothy two twenty five, as it says in first Peter three fifteen, we are to correct opponents with gentleness and respect.
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That is what I did just because I was stern in my tone, just because I warned a person that they're heading to hell doesn't mean
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I said anything unloving. In fact, if we are withholding from people the truth, that's unloving.
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For as it says in Ephesians four fifteen, we are to speak the truth in love. If what we are saying is not the truth, then it is not loving.
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And if what we are saying is loving, then it will most certainly be the truth. So let us commit our way unto the
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Lord according to his word, and we will live and we will guide others in life everlasting as well, according to God's word, not according to man's wisdom.
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According to Christ. Let us pray. Heavenly father, we ask for your forgiveness for our sins, for our pride, constantly going our own way, believing that we've got things figured out.
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Our knowledge is higher than God's knowledge. We just have to follow our heart. We just need to figure things out for ourselves.
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All of this is extremely prideful. So may we be broken down in our pride that we may not consider this way to our own destruction, but we understand
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James four, 10 humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.
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God opposes the proud, but he gives grace to the humble and in humility.
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May we come before you as puny people standing before the
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God who has created all things. We don't know what, what do we know that is greater than what
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God knows when you have created and ordained all. And so we stand in humble fear of God and ask for your grace and your mercy, praising you for the love that you've demonstrated to us in Christ Jesus, our
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Lord. May we love Jesus and desire to walk in his ways. And I pray for John Steingart.
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Again, I pray for the other guys at Hawk Nelson, that they would be cut to the heart over all of this nonsense, how weak and feeble they are in their own humanity and relying upon their own knowledge in their own minds.
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They were not even able to sustain themselves so that they may turn from their sin and love the gospel of Christ, which alone has the power, the power to save.
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And I pray that for everybody in our listening audience that we would not take for granted a faith that maybe we grew up in, but we understand there are deep truths here that we must know and your word has given it to us.
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And we seek out those teachers who can teach us these things. Lest we stand on the brink of apostasy and think that we know better than God.
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Thank you for being so merciful to us, for at any given point, we could have fallen away from the faith to our own destruction, but it is you who upholds us with a willing hand, lead us in paths of righteousness for your name's sake.
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We pray these things in Jesus name. Amen. This is when we understand the text with Pastor Gabe Hughes.
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There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web, and we thank you for selecting ours, but this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family.
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Find a good gospel teaching Christ centered church to worship with this weekend and join us again Monday for more