Culturally Acceptable Violence Versus the Christian Church

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Void where prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. See website for details. Welcome to another edition of The Wrap Report.

I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport, the Executive Director of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community, of which this podcast is a proud member.

This week, I was joined, or actually, I was on and joined Chris Honholds from Voice of Reason Radio.

We recorded this back a few weeks ago, but wanted to play this here for our audience. We're discussing what happened in Tennessee with the shooting where a transgender person walked into a

Christian school and shot and killed six people. The reaction from the media has been very interesting, and for that reason,

I think this will be very helpful for you to check out and listen to. That's coming your way right now on The Wrap Report.

Welcome to The Wrap Report with your host, Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application.

This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Welcome once again to Voice of Reason Radio, your host Chris Honholds, and well, not

Richard's story. Rich is not with us tonight, and no, this is not an April Fool's joke, even though it is April 1st, 2023.

Poor Rich has literally been playing watchman on the wall for his family as storms continue to beat the living tar out of the area he's in.

He is in Mississippi. There have been numerous tornadoes, numerous storms, and just all kinds of havoc wreaked, and Rich is kind of the amateur weatherman for his house.

He's tracked everything from dew points to storm fronts and everything else that he tried to explain to me that went right over my head, and he was basically up all night keeping track on that so his family could rest, so if weather patterns came their way, they could get ready and go if they needed to.

So please pray for Rich and his family. Thankfully, God is gracious and has skipped over their area, but pray for the rest he desperately needs.

However, despite the fact that I told you all on social media I was going to be solo on this and you were going to have to put up with me by myself,

I'm not by myself. I actually have had a dear brother in Christ who has graciously joined, volunteered to join us.

Now, I think it's a blessing. I'll let you decide if it's worth having Andrew Rappaport on the show, but brother, how are you doing this week?

Thank you very much. I know that you do not like to do solo podcasts, so I figured, hey, if you want some company,

I can join you, and we should congratulate you. I know you won't announce it, so I should.

Congratulations on what, 5 ,000 downloads for the month? Was that your record there?

Yeah, it almost hit 5 ,200, which I still cannot quite understand.

As we have explained to some folks listening to the program, we try to keep the numbers out of it, but when

January came around, Podbean had the opportunity, presented an opportunity for people who hosted them to apply to be listed as featured.

Well, apparently doing that was a massive boost to our listener base, and we've picked up a lot of new listeners.

Thank you all for joining us, and what's been interesting is to watch from mid -January to now the continued increase, and we literally broke 5 ,000.

I'm looking at this going, wow, we could conceivably maybe hit close to 5 ,000, and then overnight, we shot up to almost 5 ,200 for the month of March, which for us,

I mean, look, we're not just thinking. We're not going to get 87 ,000 downloads in one episode.

Darrell, love you, man. Your stuff's fantastic. You accomplished with one episode. It took us seven years to do, but for us, that was absolutely astounding that the new listeners have come on board, and they not only seem to be listening to what we put out, but y 'all have been going backwards in time and listening to everything else, so it's been quite amazing, so yeah, thank you, brother.

We appreciate that. I know I do that myself. I mean, I find a podcast I first time hearing it,

I go, oh, I just did this recently. I was out at a conference, and I'm just getting over a cold, so I will try to mute the coughs, but I was at a conference with a

Dead Man Walking podcast and conversations with a Calvinist, and so I subscribed, and then

I went back to old episodes, started downloading a bunch, so that's what happens when you find one you like. Hey, amen, amen, and it's been really wild to watch.

I've said this before. In a lot of ways, we are very unscripted.

It's a conversational thing, and so half the time, at least, we're not walking in with notes, because most of the time

I'm going, what are we talking about again? And we shoot up from the hip a lot, mostly because we're trying to work through these things as Christians having a conversation, and what blows my mind is that seems to really resonate with people, and you guys seem to really benefit from it and enjoy it, which we are grateful that it's helping you.

So I want to remind you, by the way, we talk about this a lot. We are part of the Christian podcast community, and our quote -unquote boss of that is actually sitting on the other side of the microphone three time zones away, and that's our brother here,

Andrew. It was kind of his brainchild to put this together where a bunch of like -minded

Christians come together and help benefit each other by helping cross -promotion, doing things like what

Andrew and I are doing now, being on each other's shows, and giving you a resource where it's like if you're looking for solid content, you're going to find it through Christian podcast communities, so I want you to go check that out and listen to Andrew's shows.

I give him a lot of grief. We love to give each other grief. That's what we pretty much live for on social media is to terrorize each other, but you really appreciate his content.

He's got multiple shows, but his rap report and the Apologetics Live shows are the two that I most have been either been involved with or have listened to, and I really encourage you to go check out both of those.

I give him a lot of I am grateful for our brother here. You give me grief? Oh, just a little.

Okay, wait, hold on. We can actually, we have it recorded. Oh, no. Here we go. This is from a previous episode you did.

Andrew is a master manipulator, master planner, master, you know, whatever it is he's going to do because he knows well in advance how he's going to twist you up in circles and then try to make it look like it was your fault, so just ask

Matt Slick. Ask Matt Slick. That poor guy is getting no mercy from Andrew since Andrew's been out there this week out there in Idaho.

They were ministering to the Mormon community out there, and that poor

Matt can't even buy dinner without Andrew mocking him saying, I beat you to it and putting him on video.

I mean, for the record, I didn't do the video just for the record, but hey, we were in Israel.

I encouraged everyone to buy Matt his lunch so that he couldn't, and we had some people do that.

It was nice, but I did let Matt buy me an ice cream bar, so see, I'm a nice guy.

Very gracious of you. Yes, yes. Now, I've been told by Rich, since you graciously volunteered to fill in for him, he was fine with you filling in for him, provided you brought him back in Iraq from Israel like he asked you to, so if you didn't,

I'm going to have to kick you off the show because that was the deal. It's a good thing that I have one.

All right, all right. But he has to come here to pick it up. I'll make sure to relay that, which you'll figure out once the show drops, he'll listen in.

And I mean, look, I had to play a clip because he knows I keep this whole rack of clips that he always busts on me for keeping and enjoying to play them at good times, but we are going to talk a serious topic tonight, and one that I'm glad,

I'm actually really glad that you allowed me to come on because I haven't spoken about this publicly, so I'm really glad Bill do this with you.

Yeah, no, and we're grateful to have you, brother. I always love the content that you bring to any show that you're on, whether you're doing it your own or you're on with other folks, so I know you're going to have some great contribution to this as well.

And this is one of those topics that, unfortunately, it's probably been covered a million different ways, and we were praying about that at the beginning, or prior to the show starting.

What we're hoping to do tonight is, we hope we cover it from a different perspective than most people will, and what we're hoping to do is, may it be a reminder of the desperate need we have to proclaim the gospel, especially in times such as these.

So if, unless you're literally been living on an island in the middle of nowhere, you know what happened this last

Monday, March 27th. On that date, an individual by the name of Audrey Hale walked into Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee and opened fire.

She did this as a pre -planned attack. She did this as, I would call a hate crime against Christians, which we'll go into.

She killed six people, three of them were children, nine years old, Evelyn Dieckhaus, Haley Scruggs, and William Kinney, and sadly, one of those children was the daughter of the pastor of the church that runs that school.

The three adults were Catherine Kuntz, she was the head of the school, 60 years old, Cynthia Peek, 61, and Mike Hill, 61.

Here's what we do know, that prior to going into the school, she had actually messaged a middle school friend via Instagram, and interestingly,

I'd read an article where that friend came forward and noted that Hale had almost a, not maybe borderline stalkerish mentality toward this friend, just constantly showing up at places, constantly finding ways to contact her, just very bizarre behavior, she described it as.

We know that she messaged that friend and said, I'm going to die today, you're probably going to hear about me on the news, and I really care about you, you were an amazing person.

We know that at 10, 11 a .m. Nashville time, she entered the school, and that by 10, 25 a .m.,

law enforcement officers had engaged her and ended her threat. If you have not had the opportunity,

I will cautiously recommend to watch the Metro Police video that's been released of that high -risk shooting incident, because it shows you how you should actually respond to an active shooter incident, as opposed to some that have gone really horribly wrong when bad decisions were made, and this one was,

I would call it textbook, they did exactly what they were supposed to do, and they limited the loss of life, and they acted quickly, they acted with great courage and concern for those involved, and they made sure that that threat was stopped, and when they did, you'll see in the video, and we won't link it,

I'm not going to require anybody to go watch it, it's hard to watch, but she was actively engaging law enforcement from a second -story window when they took the shot, but that's quickly and quite honestly, heroically those officers acted.

We know that subsequent investigation revealed the following, Hale was once a student at the school, she was,

I believe, 28 years old now, this was kind of a grade school, age school, so this was some time ago, she identified herself as transgender, and we're going to say she, please understand, as a

Christian program, we stand upon truth, and we'll get into why we say that there is not, there is,

I'm going to say what Daryl Harrison's been saying on Twitter, no one is trans, okay, I'm going to make that point right up front, that's why we're going to continue to refer to her by her actual name, and by her actual gender.

She identified herself as transgender, she was female, she was identifying herself as male, according to the police, that she had written a manifesto, which has not yet been released.

I saw a headline that suggested that FBI is reviewing it first, and that this should be released after that, we'll see.

We know that she had a detailed map of the school, and she had identified other potential targets which were ruled out because apparently they were just not soft target enough.

And finally, we know there has been reports that she was undergoing some sort of mental health treatment or therapy, and there was one article that suggested that she may have been even receiving counseling from the pastor of the church slash school,

I don't know if that was confirmed or not. So that's what we do know. Since the shooting, here's what's happened.

Ms. Hale has been lauded by the LGBT community as a martyr. There are individuals that have actually, you know, identified her as a victim because of the ongoing narrative regarding the trans community, and how they are persecuted, and how they are hated.

And so that the reason she did what she did was because she was a victim and a martyr. She has been portrayed very positively in the media, you know, talking about how she was a smart and loving and quiet young woman, she was an artist, etc.

The media has even gone so far as to attempt to try to tamp down the issue of her referring to herself as transgender in one article put out by Reuters.

They refer to her as a former Christian school student, basically saying here was a person who was a

Christian who went back into a Christian school and killed other Christians. We know that during a recent protest in Tennessee, I think it had to do with their transgender laws, which are being debated and potentially passed about having to, let's just say we're not going to poison children and mutilate their bodies in the name of transgender protections.

So that protest is going on. And while it's going on, the protesters are identifying not six, but seven victims, indicating that they believe

Miss Hale is a victim, despite the fact that she brutally murdered three older people and three nine -year -old children.

They are being referred to as a victim by protesters. The media has apologized repeatedly for referring to her as a woman instead of a man in initial reports.

The media has reported that Hale was not accepted by her Christian family.

There was a headline, and I'll see if I can find it again while I'm going through this, that kind of referred to her as having been rejected by her family.

Let me find this real quick. I was just looking at it and I'm going to, I hate when

I have everything up and then I forget to do that one. But I can't find it. While you're looking for that,

I mean, one of the things that we did notice with it is the media did call her a female initially, and this is the thing that's so interesting with it is how they quickly had to change the narrative when they realized what was actually happening.

We don't see, if you look at the name of the school as Covenant Christian School, everyone refers to it as Covenant School.

It's interesting the word Christian's dropped out. True. Her transgenderism was dropped out in the beginning until she suddenly became a victim, and now she's transgender.

You saw originally the headlines, former Christian student, and that's the only time you'd see

Christian in there when she was identified as the Christian doing the shooting. So as far as it being a hate crime, it's interesting because in every other case, the manifesto that they write is made public.

In this one, it isn't, and they're all trying to make it about, well, this is what happened at her school when she was there in sixth grade?

Yeah. Sixth grade. Okay. So, well, we don't know, and the media doesn't know because the police haven't released the manifesto.

Exactly. So they're saying, oh, this is why, but yet again, we see the media rushing to judgment on a narrative, not the truth.

We don't know what the truth is because they won't release it. Exactly. And that's exactly one of the biggest problems.

And I did find the headline. It was from Daily Mail. Their picture for this particular article puts down the statement,

Trans Outcast. Big capital letters and then exclusive. Nashville mass school shooter was rejected by her

Christian parents. So that's one of the things. That's what we do know is that they are, they're basically painting that narrative that she is a victim of Christianity, Christian hate, so to speak.

We know that they, the media has, and trans activists have alleged that the trans community will be victimized or be persecuted by anti -trans hate.

After this shooting, it was NBC News that listed their article saying, fear pervades

Tennessee's trans community amid focus on Nashville shooter's gender identity.

Quote, we were already fearing for our lives. Now it's even worse. End quote. So that's, this is what we're seeing evolve post shooting.

How many articles are there about Christians shooting trans people?

I mean, I checked zero. Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, I remember they were quick to accuse Christians at a nightclub, a gay nightclub.

Oh, but that turned out to be a Muslim. Yeah. I, you know, I just think that if they're going to say that Christians are out trying to kill all the trans people, there should be some statistics to support it.

Am I crazy in thinking such things? I think you would be crazy in the eyes of the people we'll be talking about tonight.

But I think if you're a rational thinking person, no, which is the problem. We're not dealing with a lot of rationality and logical thinking.

And just a couple other last things that we've seen is that media has criticized

Christians and other media personalities for saying transgender ideology is anti -Christian.

That was something that came up when Tucker Carlson, I think rightly pointed out that transgender ideology is incompatible and antithetical to a

Christian doctrine. And that blew up like the response to that was almost worse than how people felt about the shooting.

And then some evangelical leaders, Tom Buck shared this earlier as an example. One was Nate Collins of Revoice was appealing to Christians to be kind in addressing

Hale as someone who suffered quote unquote, parental rejection. I believe his tweet came was along the lines of, we can simultaneously be sympathetic and compassionate about the victims of the shooter, but at the same time have compassion toward Hale because she was a victim of parental rejection.

So these are things that have developed since the shooting. And that hopefully brings you kind of up to speed and understanding what we're actually talking about tonight.

And that's the thing that I hope this is what we are. This is what our world is dealing with. Andrew is that we are as Christians.

We just saw a Christian school slash church violently attacked children.

We're not even just talking about a provoked incident where somebody got hurt, but who happened to be

Christian was killed because of maybe a conflict between parties in a protest or something like that.

No, we saw someone who actively planned actively targeted and went to the process of killing specifically children and adults who are professing

Christians in a Christian school. And yet what we are watching is a real train wreck of reaction.

And honestly, I think by the, before the next week is out, this story is going to be buried. I genuinely believe that one of the more recent nightclub shootings where the shooter went to court and identified, oh, by the way,

I'm non -binary within a week that that, that shooting story died. And I firmly believe that this one will as well.

Well, see, this is where I disagree with you. Okay. I do. I don't think it's going to die because they found a way to fit the narrative.

As you've already said, the real victim here is not the three nine -year -olds nor the three 60 -year -olds.

The real victim is the 28 -year -old who just recently became transgender.

Now she's 28. She went to this school because of what they did to her in sixth grade.

This is 20 years later, you know, maybe a little less, but roughly. So, you know, we don't know what that manifesto says.

We don't know what her reasons are, we do know one thing for sure. She went to that school to commit a form of suicide.

Indeed. She knew she was going to die. She anticipated she was going to die.

She wanted to die, but not at her own hands. And she wanted, this is personally why

I'm against any manifestos being made public in the sense where these people want to kill people so their voice could be heard.

It's why I like Daily Wire, it doesn't mention the names of the people that do these sort of killings. They shouldn't be mentioned.

And so the thing is, is that when you provide the manifesto and it gets out there, it encourages more people that just want to be heard to get national attention to be heard even in their death.

And so in that sense, I'm glad that it's not being shared. I wish they would not share any of them, but since they share all the others and not sharing this one, it leads me to believe that they read this and went, oh no,

Christians are going to be seen as a victim here. And we can't have that. I mean, Madonna is flying to the

United States, to Tennessee. Why? To go to Nashville. For the victims? No, just one victim, supposed victim.

She's coming in because to support the LGBT community. Well, this was a crime committed by the

LGBT community, the way that they always try to say it, right? It's always, if they can blame it on a

Christian, when a, you know, abortion clinic was shot up, that was a

Christian doing it. And they were quick to say that. And then they found out, I hope it wasn't. When the massage parlors were shot up, oh, it was a

Christian, he attended church. And then they found out, yeah, that wasn't the case either. When it was a gay bar shot up, it was a

Christian that did that. And then they found out it was a Muslim. You know, they rushed to judgment to blame

Christians. And as you mentioned, both earlier and in your article that you have on slavetotheking .com,

the fact that what they're doing is they're in a rush to judge

Christians, but they do not want Christians to be seen as the The Christians constantly have to be the guilty party all the time.

And so what we end up seeing is they are justifying, as you mentioned in your article,

Maxine Waters, who justifies going out and attacking conservatives if they're seen in public, because they should be hiding.

They shouldn't be out in public. And that's exactly what ends up happening. And she goes, well, I have no responsibility for that.

But they want to blame all Christians for anything that any Christian does. We've seen this with the church shooting in Texas.

I forget the other, the black church that where they were, oh, that was national news with the black church until everybody from that church offered forgiveness to the guy that shot them.

And then they wanted, it just dropped from the news. They don't want anything of that, because the only reason that interested them was it was a black church.

But every time that you see Christians being killed, the media wants to blame the Christians for someone killing them.

And they're justifying. And look, Chris, we have to be honest. We have entered a third world country.

America is now a third world country. We have just arrested a political opponent. That's what third world countries do.

So we shouldn't be surprised when we see things like this happening where the media, which is just propaganda for the regime, is just promoting whatever angle they have to, because if they don't promote the regime's message, well, soon they'll be imprisoned or killed like in other third world countries.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, brother. And I think we'll get to explain that here in just a little bit, because what we're watching is a culture that is continuing to steep itself further and further into sin, into the celebration and acceptance and affirmation of sin in rebellion against God and what we see in this shooting.

And I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out what motive is. And in fact, I would argue that we can even know what the motive is by listening to our own political opponents, so to speak, those within the transgender community, because they even recognize, well, it's because that's

Christian school and Christians are bad. They're responding that way. So I think most everybody can identify that.

So let's start with trans identity as a biblical issue.

Now, I would challenge how Tarko Carlson presented it to an extent.

I think he was very accurate in his Fox News monologue. But one of the things he said is that he referred to trans ideology as a mirror image of Christianity.

I think what he's trying to say is kind of a reverse image or an antithetical image to Christian doctrine.

And that's why I say, I think his language is a little bit muddled there, but it is absolutely antithetical.

And as he pointed out, where Christians recognize there's nothing of ourselves that has a goodness or or I'm trying to say the right words and I'm getting ahead of myself.

So bear with me. There's nothing about ourselves that we count as good or perfect or worthy.

We recognize that before God, we are unrighteous, unholy, wicked, vile sinners, and that it is through the humiliation of bowing ourselves humbly before the

Lord, admitting our sins, confessing and repenting of our sins and turning to Jesus Christ that we have been made worthy, that there is something now truly good and truly righteous about us.

But it's not us. It's Christ in us where the opposite is true within transgender ideology.

Transgender ideology says, I determine my worth. I determine that I am good. What I feel and what

I decide of myself, that is what is paramount and everyone must accept it.

And the only sin in transgender ideology is to deny that transgender ideology is true and correct.

Everything else is permissible. So they are on a collision course, despite what happened on Joy Reid's show on MSNBC, where a man pretending to be a woman, going by the name of Charlotte Clymer, tried to say that he speaks the voice of Christ through his understanding of the

Christian faith through actual love and acceptance and such, and denies Christ from people who say that transgender ideology is sinful.

Rather, it is despite his claims, which are a complete misrepresentation of the truth, these two are on a collision course, and we saw them collide together in Nashville.

So why do I say that? Why do I say that transgender ideology is antithetical to scripture?

It's quite simple. Scripture tells us, you look at Genesis chapter 1 verse 27, also echoed by Christ in Matthew chapter 19 verse 4, it is

God who made us male and female. God made us male and female.

There is not a male that God went, oops, you're actually female. There is not a female where God went, ugh, and you're actually male.

God made you what you were knit together in your mother's womb, Psalm 139 verses 13 and 14.

For you formed my inward parts, you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.

Wonderful are your works, my soul knows it very well. The psalmist recognizing, made by God in his mother's womb.

There is nothing about that that's a mistake. All right, now, you're going to have inevitably, well, what about the whatabouts that are genetic abnormalities?

Number one, are extremely small end of the spectrum, and account for virtually nothing of what we're discussing here in terms of transgenderism.

Secondly, genetic abnormalities are evidence of the fall, and it does not mean that you are something other than male or female.

It means that your biology, as a result of the fall, just like someone who has genetic abnormalities that cause illness or have heart problems or have limb distortions, that is a result of the fall.

So, before we go there, let's not even try that. But it is God who has knit us together and determined our gender.

It is God who defines our gender and our sexuality. Genesis chapter 2, verses 18 to 25 says, then the

Lord God said, it is not good that man should be alone. I will make him a helper fit for him.

Now, out of the ground, the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them.

And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field.

But for Adam, there was not found a helper fit for him. So the Lord caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man.

And while he slept, took one of his ribs and closed up its place in his flesh. And the rib that the

Lord had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, this is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.

She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and they shall become one flesh.

And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. God made them male and female. God ordained the relationship of marriage between man and a woman.

And for all those who say Jesus never spoke of gay marriage. Yes, he did go back to Matthew chapter 19, where he refers directly to this.

This is God's ordaining of the sex and gender and sexuality and marriage and how sexuality is to be expressed.

Everything in this passage. And we look at places like Deuteronomy 22, five, a man shall not wear a woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak where whoever does these things is an abomination to the

Lord your God. God defines even how we represent ourselves.

Yes, fashions change over time. Okay. But what is clearly that which is feminine belongs to women.

Clearly that is masculine belongs to men. That's why these abominations that are currently walking the catwalk as these new fashions come out are meant to be gender neutral.

They're to neuter men. They are meant to make women masculine to destroy that. That's why they know that God's law tells them they cannot do this, yet they will.

It is God who says to us in Leviticus 18, 22, you shall not lie with a male as a with a woman.

It is an abomination against sexuality defined by God. And we see it all culminating all of this.

Everything that God has said about who we are as men and women, we see in Romans chapter one, what happens to a people when they reject

God's definition of gender and sexuality. Romans chapter one, verses 26 and 27, for this reason,

God gave them up to dishonorable passions for their women exchanged their natural relations for those that are contrary to nature.

And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another.

Men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Andrew, we see this happening that God has designed us. He has made us.

He has defined who we are in our right down to our biology and how that is to be expressed and how that is how we are to come together to become one flesh.

And yet what we are watching with the transgender community is to say, no, it's all flipped.

We can decide whatever we want to be. I absolutely agree when I hear people like Tucker Carlson say these two cannot coexist, right?

No, they can't. And the thing is, is that what they want us to do and think about how fast this has changed.

This has only been within the last decade that all of a sudden the left tapped into something that they can do to say, look, we can blame conservatives, we can blame

Christians specifically, so that we can say, look, they're against love. And that's the whole agenda of this.

So when you have these people that want to try to say, well, we should be kind to the homosexuals and the transgenders, they're not being kind to us, okay?

And one of the arguments that they make is that this is,

I've heard an issue of healthcare, I've heard the issue that their lives are at risk, you mentioned it earlier, that they're going to gather together and say how,

I mean, their life is at risk while they are, as we speak, committing what was previously called insurrection when they took over just, what, last weekend, took over a

Capitol building. And there's no news about that being an insurrection.

In fact, even though there was violence, it was, again, reported as mostly a peaceful event.

What will it take for them to admit that there's some violence going on when the left is doing it?

Well, nothing, because they're going to refuse, they're going to ignore it. And that's what we see time and time again in this, is that this is all about the agenda, right?

So, you and I have talked about this in the past. Right now, truth doesn't matter. Theology doesn't matter.

Narrative matters. That's what we're seeing. The only thing that they care about is the narrative that they can spin.

And the narrative that they're spinning is, well, you know, Christians want to kill transgenders. No, I'll tell you what

Christians want to do. Christians are not like Muslims. We don't want to throw them off buildings.

We don't want to kill them. We want to share the gospel with them. That's what a Christian wants to do with a transgender.

But what are you hearing from the transgenders right now? I mean, they were going to have, in D .C.,

I know it was canceled, but elsewhere, their day of rage was today, which I think fitting for April 1st, because their rage is an

April Fool's joke. Because what rage? They're having rage against Christians that aren't actually doing what they're claiming is being done.

Their claim is that preventing them from indoctrinating children will cause children to kill themselves.

And yet, we don't make that argument in any other way. We don't sit there and say, well, there's a group of people that highly, you know, high percentage of people kill themselves, so we have to stop it.

Because, you know, one of the highest suicide rates are within certain professions when it comes to adults, like police officers, military.

Hmm. Should we say no more police and military? I don't hear anyone making that argument. We're finding that...

Maybe not arguing because police kill themselves, but maybe for other reasons. Yeah. Well, the thing is, is that we see, well, no, now we know that that's the

Republicans calling for defunding the police. I mean, that's how ridiculous it has become. Utterly ludicrous.

But what we see is that their argument, let's examine the argument. They're trying to say that in the future, someone may kill themselves if you don't let them be introduced to transgenderism from a very early age, an age before they're allowed to drink alcohol because they're not able to handle it, smoke cigarettes because they're not allowed to handle it, vote because they're not allowed to handle it.

Oh, by the way, they can't even get Advil or Tylenol at their age in school because they're not allowed to handle it, but they could know their gender and all the effects that's going to have.

And so, this is what we're told. If we don't allow this, they're going to kill themselves.

Well, that has not been proven. See, the fact that many transgenders kill themselves,

I would argue is because they have a sin problem that everyone wants to encourage, in fact, celebrate.

And because of that, you have people that are taking what the culture would say is a mental illness and instead of getting them help, encouraging them to further go into mental illness, which doesn't solve the problem.

So, what do they do? They get desperate and they take their life. Because one thing that's interesting when you look at some of the statistics, the suicide rate before transgender operations and after is actually higher after.

So, if you're going to make the argument they may kill themselves, then we shouldn't be encouraging people to look at transgenderism and get these operations.

We should be stopping it. But here's the thing, the argument I don't hear anyone make, because one of the things,

Chris, you know this, go back 10 years prior and when you were out evangelizing and you had that really staunch, hardcore atheist.

There's one thing I knew and I've done this probably a thousand times and only once did it not happen this way.

Anytime I had a hardcore atheist, I went to the Reason Rally year, you know, when they had them for the two years they had those.

It was a big atheist rally in D .C. Hundreds, thousands of atheists there and we would interview them and talk to them.

Every one of them I talked to. They'd be, the hardcore atheist asked one question, what church did you grow up in?

And only once did a guy not grow up in church because what they were doing was they were upset with the way they were raised.

They hated God in a family that loved God and they so hated it they felt the strongest thing they could do is be an atheist.

Well now the strongest thing they could do is be transgender. And when you find these really hard, strong transgender, when

I go to the the pride parades and do evangelizing outside of those, everyone's been to church.

Everyone grew up in church. And so if you're going to make the argument that transgenderism is going to cause people in the future to possibly take their life, then you should stop encouraging them to, you know, not go to church.

You should be encouraging them to stay in church. That would be the, if you take their argument logically and just apply it to the transgenders who come from church, well then we shouldn't confuse them.

We should encourage them to have a biblical worldview. Now that's not going to be something anyone's going to argue in the, from the world's perspective.

Why? Because truth doesn't matter. Narrative matters. That's exactly it. You know, the thing that's interesting, you know, talking about, you pointed out, oh the claim is they're in danger because if we prevent the proliferation of what they call gender -affirming care.

I used to think that Central Intelligence Agency was the contradiction in terms.

This gender -affirming care is by far worse. But they believe that the line is, would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?

You know, that's the gender -affirming care. And I just watched, there was a video today, and I'm seeing more and more of these videos come out of people who call themselves de -transitioners.

A young woman standing on the steps during a rally and she's explaining what happened and how she was never really, you know, and we're saying this from a secular perspective, not from a biblical perspective, but as a secular perspective, she was never, her mental health was never really looked into.

Her mental health needs were never really examined the way they should have been. But they went, oh, if you feel this way, that must mean you're transgender.

And the health care professionals, and I say that with air quotes, pushed her and her family down that gender -affirming care line.

And at 16 years old, she had a double mastectomy. She was put on hormones. When she speaks, she sounds almost like masculine.

It just, you can tell that femininity is gone in her voice. And her body has been wracked with problems ever since.

And she was talking about, you know, this was what they were faced with. It's either she's going to be a dead daughter or she'll be a live son, your choice.

And that's the problem, is that it's not logical. It's not about what's actually best.

It's about driving, as you say, the narrative. Why? Because the narrative is what is antithetical to Christian truth.

And that's one of the things I want to talk about here in just a moment. But going back to what you were saying about, you know, they called it the transgender, it was supposed to be

Transgender Day of Visibility. They relabeled it, called it the Day of Vengeance. For what?

Vengeance for what? What have we done to you? Well, the idea is what we just talked about. Because you don't want transgender ideology proliferated, you're going to cause us to kill ourselves.

So therefore, we are now going to violently respond to you. Wow, overkill much.

But the interesting thing about that, in the article that you mentioned that I had written on the

Slave to the King side, I'll put it in show notes, it's Audrey Hale and culturally acceptable violence.

That's kind of what we're seeing happen here. Any sane or rational person who would have heard

Day of Vengeance from any activist group would have gone, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, let's get all kinds of law enforcement out.

Let's start doing investigations. What's about to happen here? We need to stop this before anybody gets hurt.

You never heard any of that. Not a peep. You know, if there was any investigations, they weren't saying squat.

Why? Because I genuinely believe, brother, is what we see is a culturally acceptable form of violence.

Most people will say, do you think violence solves anything? You ask nine out of ten people, you might get that psychopath that's number ten, but nine out of ten people will say, no, no, violence doesn't solve anything until we have the

Covenant Christian school shooting, until we have Black Lives Matter or Antifa riots, until we have violent rhetoric, until we have school students bashing their way into a conservative speech going on for, say, the local

Republican group on campus, and screaming and shouting and cursing people down.

That's when violence seems to be acceptable. See, as our nation continues to be given over to this depravity that we see in Romans chapter one, our ability to think becomes even more and more debased.

It is just, 20, 30 years ago, brother, you and I, I was saved in September of 2000, so I've been a

Christian for coming up on nearly 23 years. In that time,

I have watched such a massive shift in the culture's ability to have any semblance of critical thought, and I know you've been engaged in so much more of these things than I have, just from your ministry and from doing apologetics and, as you say, going to things like various events such as the

Reason Rally or LGBT pride parades and engaging people. You and I would both agree, in the last 20 to 30 years, the nation's ability to think is gone into the gutter, it is shredded, it is almost gone.

I wouldn't even say 20 or 30, I'd say 10 years. Oh yeah, but just watching, I mean, before as a new

Christian to now, just in 20, almost 23 years, I've watched such a dramatic shift.

And I would say, I think it was James White that pointed out, it was really Obergefell was the decision and Supreme Court was the tipping point.

And every person who said, this is going to lead to XYZ problems who were screamed at for being an alarmist and slippery slope argument has been utterly proven right.

But the foundations for that, of course, were laid many, many years earlier. But just what we would have thought was unthinkable two to three decades ago is utterly permissible today.

Well, let me, if I could just say where this started. It started with teaching evolution in school.

Why? Because in teaching evolution, what they had to do is remove the teaching of critical thinking.

Yes. Because if you have critical thinking, these things, people are going to realize this makes no sense because even with the arguments being made, as you mentioned earlier, you either have a dead daughter or a live son.

That's a logical fallacy, the either or fallacy as if these are the only two options.

No, there's another option. You can have a daughter who recognizes she's a girl and learns to enjoy her femininity or a boy who enjoys his masculinity.

Right. There's another option. But the either or fallacy gives you just these two.

And this is the thing I find interesting is, you know, we were Anthony and I were evangelizing down in Florida and this home, these two women that were claiming to be married together, homosexuals.

It's interesting because when they were upset with what we were saying and they were upset with me, they said,

I hope your child turns out gay. And I thought about that. Afterwards, Anthony and I were talking. I said, I wonder what would happen if I said,

I hope if you have a child that turns out Christian, right? So you're recognizing when you say,

I hope your child turns out gay, that you're recognizing that it's a reaction to Christian thinking.

It's not something they're born with. It's not something that it's cultivated by culture with a hatred for God.

That's really what it comes down to. And one of the things you mentioned, these people that are detransitioning, and I really plan to do this at some point on Apologetics Live, because one of the things people don't realize medically, you have all these parents getting these operations for children, but whether the children wanted the operation or not, once they turn 18, they can sue the doctor for whatever the operation is.

And this is why so few doctors will do an operation unless it is absolutely medically necessary so that they can prove that in court.

Well, you just wait. All these people that, you know, they grew up being told they're transgender and they're still not happy, they're going to see a cash cow as it's already started happening.

And some of them are already starting to collect the money. And when that continues and these people realize I can get millions of dollars from some doctor just because he performed a surgery when

I was 16, even though I agreed with it when I was 16, guess what? That's going to be a thing that I think will stop this nonsense because the doctors are going to go, oh, well, they're going to go back to the way they do every other surgery and go, we're not promoting this unless, you know, there's got to be a change of the law.

So, and I'm sure that's what's going to end up happening. Congress will just go, oh, except for the case of transgenderism, you can't sue your doctor, right?

I mean, that's what they're going to claim. No, I absolutely agree with you on that. And in fact, I was just saying that about a week or so ago where I saw one of those news articles about a young woman who was going into the process of suing the people involved.

And the sad part about it is you nailed it right on the head. It won't be because we've recognized this is evil.

This is wrong. We're harming children. We won't have compassion. We won't have rational or logical thinking.

We won't be looking at actual science. We won't have the heart of God on this. No, it's going to be, wow, I really, my pocketbook got hit and that's what's going to change it.

And sadly, I think the truth of the matter is, like you said, once they begin to realize that that is going to change the ability to promote transgender ideology, then yes, you're going to have a call for laws to be changed so the doctors can't be sued.

So I absolutely agree with you on that. And the sad part about all of this is that as we are watching this ideology continue to be pushed forward and the world's thinking continues to be more and more depraved, what is it being replaced with?

You touched on it a minute ago when you said that critical thinking had to be jettisoned when we started talking about evolution in schools.

Well, what has it been replaced with over the years? Well, we got things like social justice, intersectionality, critical theory, everything that says you don't have to analyze what creates this situation and determine what's right, what's wrong, who's got the right answers.

No, here's the framework. Everything is racist. Everything is oppressive. Everything is bigoted.

Everything is misogynistic. And depending on where you fall on the gender or ethnic scale is whether or not you're the oppressor or you're the victim of the oppression.

And that's what's been happening is we've replaced the ability to think and analyze with a framework.

There's a meme that runs around. I think the TV show is called Family Guy. And he's pulled over by the police and there's a card held up of various skin tones.

And if he's within certain white shades, he's to be arrested. If he's within certain darker shades, he's to be let go.

And that's basically what we're watching being done is that depending on where you fit in the scale, you're either an oppressor who needs to be repentant, meaning giving everything over to the oppressed or you are the oppressed and you have everything in your favor, which is why we're seeing what's happened with Audrey Hale being treated the way she is.

She's even though she was a vile, evil murderer of children, she's still somehow a victim.

And that's what no, no, no. She's a hero. She's a martyr, a martyr, a hero and a victim, which created this scenario.

The only time I've seen a murderer considered a martyr was in Mormonism with Joseph Smith, where he was shooting the people that were coming after him and they called him a martyr.

Martyrs by definition are not people who kill other people. Yeah. And then die as a result of it.

Exactly. So what we're watching is that as these systems have been put into place and the depraved and the unregenerate are lauded as these virtuous heroes, any and all objections that we may raise to say, no, wait, there's an objective standard here.

There's an objective standard of truth. There's an objective standard of morality. And this system is wrong. Oh, no. If you've said that you're hateful and you're oppressive.

So the systems now put in place, lift up the unregenerate and depraved and shut down any ability for possible critical thinking and the ability to voice anything that's about truth.

And so as a result, the culture now starts to fight back against people like Andrew and myself, those of us that listen to this program.

If you are saying there is an objective truth and objective morality, culture begins to turn on you.

Why? Because you are standing in the way of their depraved, immoral lifestyle.

You are a constant representation of that which is true, that which is right, that which is moral.

And they will fight back through insults, through mocking. They will create reverse institutional oppression and now ultimately violence through rhetoric and action.

And so why is that? That's because God's law is written upon all of our hearts. Jeremiah 31, 33, which is also cited in Hebrews 10, 16, says his law is written upon our hearts and our conscience convicts us of sin.

It convicts us of the evil that is in our hearts and points us to the judgment that is to come under God.

It reveals to us the true condition of our hearts, which Jeremiah 17, 9 says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick who can understand it.

It points us to the only hope of salvation that we have, which Galatians 3, 24 tells us, so then the law was our guardian until Christ came in order that we might be justified by faith.

The law points us to what our inability to please God, because we are wicked, vile sinners, and it points us to Christ that we might be justified by faith in him.

So anything in our culture that would potentially demonstrate something is immoral or it's not fit for public acceptance or practice, they have to shut it down.

It has to be utterly, completely eschewed. They can't stand it because it is a reminder of that law of God written upon their hearts.

They would rather sear that heart to rock hard to where they just cannot feel any sense of conviction so they can continue to sin without any fear of feeling bad about it.

But as long as we stand up and say, no, thus says the Lord, or anything that bears resemblance to it.

Why do you think conservative political positions, as compromised as they are in recent years, why do they stand against that?

Because they cannot abide by anything that even bears a remote resemblance to the truth of God.

Anything that says you are accountable for your own actions, anything that says we must do what is right and good, anything that says government isn't the overlord that gets to tell you how to think, you yourself must respond to your conscience and do what is right and good.

They have to shut it down because even a slight glimmer is enough to convict the heart.

And so they are turning on anything in the culture, every law, every institution, every form of public expression that could potentially remind them of God and his truth has to be torn down and replaced.

Go back to critical theory. What are we doing? Tearing down, rebuilding. That's what they're doing. They are tearing down anything that would potentially remind them that God is a

God of justice who will one day hold them true, hold them accountable for his truth and hold them accountable for their sin.

And to allow any kind of divine foot in the door is to reintroduce to the human conscience the law of God and the conviction of sin.

And that's why when you see this culturally acceptable form of violence turning on the right kinds of people, it's acceptable.

You look back at the BLM and Antifa riots, why did they call them mostly peaceful but fiery protests?

Because it was about turning against the entrenched oppressive system.

It was okay to destroy cities. It was okay to destroy property. It was okay to hurt people.

It was okay to even kill a man who was a retired police chief, who was simply trying to act as security and he's killed.

Why? Why is that acceptable in the media, in the political realm, in the cultural consciousness?

Because it was turning against that system that says, oh no, there's a higher moral standard and you redefining it is wrong.

No, they have to allow for that. Politicians, you pointed it out because I had made reference to this in my article,

Maxine Waters back in 2018 said, yeah, if you see Trump's staff, if you see his supporters in the public square, harass them, yell at them, get them, chase them out of here, let them know they don't belong.

It's an attempt to silence any form of opposition.

And what's interesting is when you see these things begin to happen and you go, this is wrong.

Hey, look, you got mad at January 6th. Why are you not mad about that? Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're not allowed to ask that question.

Why? Because these individuals legitimately have anger over their lifetime of oppression.

These people are angry over this kind of behavior that's oppressive and destructive. And we're even seeing it now.

It happened again at a university, at the law, I think it was Yale law school, where an appellate court judge comes to speak at an invitation and they're shouting him down.

They're calling, you know, they're saying things down, interrupting his speech. And the administrator even allows for this dean of diversity allows for, and for 10 minutes lectures him this rhetoric of attack, this rhetoric of harassment.

It's allowed over and over again. And it's getting worse. March 28th,

Fox news ran an article about a Wayne state university. I cited this in the article, a

Wayne state university professor who said, protest isn't enough because protest makes us look bad.

And the media gets to use it against us. You know, what would be better if they were killed? He literally, I mean, he's been now to the

Wayne state university's credit. He's been suspended, um, with pay, but he's been suspended.

So that's called vacation. That's called vacation. That's, that's like when, when, uh, uh, from the view, uh, whoopie

Goldberg insults Jewish now they, they call for everyone else to be canceled. But when she did it, you know, insulting

Jewish people, she got a two week vacation. That's, that's not a punishment ship. You know, a paid vacation is not punishment in my mind.

No, not in the least. But the sad part about it is, um, this is all behavior.

That's another great example. Here's an individual that spoke against a religious group that even though not

Christian bears resemblance to Christian because of its adherence to the old Testament and it is from where Christianity was, was born close enough in their mind, they can say the negatives about that and turn people's, uh, anger and animosity against them.

And barely not even a slap on the wrist. Why it's a tacit approval by the media, by institutions, even religious entities, political entities, that this form of rhetoric and violent action is acceptable because it's being brought against the right kind of people.

And even if they don't go out and say like some people did, I still remember, uh, Cuomo, I forget his first name, but he was on MSNBC.

Oh, Andrew, uh, Andrew or Chris, I can't remember which one was on MSNBC. Was it Andrew? Chris Cuomo is the, the, uh, journal, if you want to say journalist, but yeah, yeah.

Journalist in a lucid sense of the term complaining, where does it say, say that, uh, protests have to be polite? Where does it say they, they, uh, you know, that they have to be respectful.

And as somebody pointed out, um, the constitution or peaceable. Yeah. Right there in the constitution, it wasn't a

Trump that said let's peaceably protest. They called that an insurrection. Exactly. But when you, when you're violent for the right cause, then, then it's acceptable.

Well, then it's the only way to get heard. You can't, you know, because then what their, what their argument is, well, if we don't do this and I've, I literally talked to a guy that's very supportive of black lives matter, um, you know, some time ago and he said, look, you know, black guy, he says, we have to be violent because if we're not violent, you know, no one's going to take us seriously.

Yeah. And that, and that's the sad part about it. And there are people like MSNBC and other so -called journalists who will openly say it's acceptable and use just that kind of language.

Or you will have tacit approval where we really don't, we don't say anything bad about it. We just kind of say, well, this happened and, and here's the reasons why behind it, et cetera.

So not a open embracing, but a tacit approval by not calling it out for the evil that it is.

And we see that going back to this shooting, as we talked about before, people who have said, well, she was rejected by her parents.

She was a trans outcast. She was, uh, she was, you know, the police chief I know had said one of the potential, uh, theories was that she may have had resentment for having to go to that school.

And that's the kind of stuff that you're seeing others say, we'll see. Christians are responsible for this.

Christians are teaching trans people that they're evil or they're sinful. So therefore this is why they're motivated.

And so you have that acceptance of this violence without, you know, and as you said, every time we've had a major shooting, boy, they're quick as far as fast as they can to ascribe some kind of Christian or conservative, uh, you know, uh, vile behavior.

Therefore it's wrong until they disguise it, you know, find out it's not that, and then they become quiet. But in this case, now they're going one step further and trying to paint this picture of this.

Well, she was really a great person and yet somehow driven to this. And that's that acceptable one -sided, hey, this violence might be understandable or acceptable.

And as opposed to, wow, what a vile evil act. And that's why we see happening here.

So. I know I hate to, um, use logic, but if I apply that, if I apply that logic that they have, would

I be able to go into a public school system and shoot it up because I was forced to go there? No, that would be consistent.

I mean, right. I mean, this is... That would be consistent thinking. Because the thing is their whole argument is, well, this is, this is, you know, she was forced to go to this

Christian school. I was forced to go to a public school. I didn't have say in that. And so does that justify the behavior?

And the answer is no. Now you get into the question of, okay, well, if it doesn't justify behavior, why are we, why are we accepting it in this case?

Because narrative matters. I'm sorry. I should have known better. Not allowed to allow, uh, bring in logic and, and, uh, and rationality brother.

It's simply not allowed, but you know, this, the sad part about this is, you know, that there, that disparity is absolutely true.

That's exactly what's going on right now. Um, now we'll bring up January 6th because we, we, we touched on it a little bit ago, but only for this comparison.

Look, there were people who did do some violent things and fought with the cops and, and, and did things that they should be held accountable for.

Absolutely. But, but wait, wait, wait, you're saying that, but I'm going to push back a little and say this, though, though, yes, that's true.

But can we say they were unprovoked because as we're now finding out, yes, they were provoked by the, the police.

So can we really say, I mean, when, when many of them said they, they, you'll hear they're trapped in this small area and then they're, they're tear gassed and they can't get out.

They were pushed into an area and, and, you know, now we see with the police encouraging them to get in there and then they're stuck, then they're, then there's a stampede event and people were trying to be civilized.

But yeah, I mean, there's a point where there was reaction, but out of what, there was like 800 ,000 people there and they have maybe 20 that actually committed violence, 200 that they've arrested.

That's a mostly peaceful protest. Right. And that's what I was going to get at is that, you know, there may be some instances where we might be able to say this person was wrong, that person was wrong.

But in reality, when it, when it push came to shove at the end, what were people doing? Wandering the halls, not finding what horn boy was, you know,

Buffalo boy was being escorted around by law enforcement. And he's now free because of it.

Yeah. Tucker Carlson refer to it as a, as a guided tour. I, I might, I, I, having been engaged in law enforcement for a long time,

I would say it's probably more like, look, it's locked. You can't go in there. Okay. Let's just go this way. You know, maybe trying to keep him from causing more problems.

That's me being generous. I get that. But the point being, it wasn't a violent attempt to take over, nor was it an attempt to hurt any of those inside the

Capitol building. And yet we will, we will call that a violent insurrection.

But the, the treatment of that still years later is vastly different than what we're seeing when

Audrey Hale gunned down three children and three adults in cold blood.

How is it that we can have that? And I goes back to that law of God written upon our hearts and the depravity of our culture.

It's that depravity is growing worse and worse, which is, I believe goes right back to Romans chapter one.

It, you know, that is God's judgment on a people as they continue to, to return their back on him.

He gives them over to that depraved mind, to that debased mind. And it is, as they continue in that, their hatred for God and his word and his people grows.

They can't, they can't kill Christ again, but they will turn against his followers and they will destroy anything in their path one way or another.

If they can't shout you down, if they can't disenfranchise you, if they can't demonize you, then there's one more opportunity and that's to go after you physically.

And I believe that's what we see with Audrey Hale. Now her manifesto has not been released at this point.

It may never be released. We don't know, but yet everybody on all sides seem to recognize that here was a transgender person who shot up a

Christian school. Most people can do the math and go, there's a connection. And it is likely her trans status, which came into conflict with Christianity, that connected those two together.

And whether her manifesto specifically outlines that or not, what we can say is that Hale, who was a deeply troubled woman, who was fully immersed in a sinful lifestyle, turned her anger against the people of God.

I don't think you need any greater evidence than that for what persecution looks like when people hate

God. They love their sin and they hate God that they go after his people. And I believe that's what we saw happen.

Scripture tells us that all who desire to live godly will be persecuted, not might be, will be persecuted.

You see that in 2 Timothy 3 .12. We recognize that the promises of God are sure and true.

Folks, this is where the rubber meets the road in this discussion. What are we talking about? We are talking about a collision course with genuine

Christian faith versus the depravity of the world. And we have been on a collision course and we are hitting each other now.

And that we are watching the culture begin to react. And we are watching the culture continually more and more approve of that which is violent rhetoric or violent action against anything that has even a marginal resemblance to the

Christian church. And we have to recognize that that is coming and we are going to face it in some form or fashion.

And in fact, even more so what we're seeing, and I shared this on Twitter the other day, and I mentioned it earlier, this

Charlotte Clymer, this man that says he's a woman, it was portrayed, him and of course everybody's favorite liberal leftist theologian

Jim Wallace were on with Joy Reid, and Joy was positioning them as like, these are reasonable

Christians. Here, here's what the right is saying about you, Charlotte Clymer, about how transgenderism is antithetical to Christianity.

How do you feel? What's Clymer's response? I don't see Christ in their words. How does a person who absolutely hates what the word of God says be able to know how to speak for Christ or understand the words of Christ?

The truth, the simple truth is he can't. But he is being positioned as the reasonable one.

He is being positioned as the true Christian. We are watching the world attempt to steal the

Christian faith and profits its own godless idolatrous version up as the true

Christian faith, so that what? Biblical Christians can be persecuted, marginalized, shoved out of the public square.

You have a discussion with a transgender person, a man pretending to be a woman, trying to speak for Christ when the very person of their own community was the one responsible for killing three

Christian children, nine years of age. How ludicrous is it, yet it is being done?

We have been on a collision course. We are running into each other at breakneck speed, and it is going to get even more ugly,

I believe, as time goes on. This is not something that can be solved by political solutions.

You have an ideology that has been embraced by the world that is literally irrational, literally insane, literally untrue in every possible metric, yet it has been lifted up as the thing to be honored and treated virtuously, yet it is

Christianity that is the cause of the anger and pain that they feel.

There's no political solution to this. We're going to be hated. We're going to be scorned.

We're going to be mocked. We're going to be called names. We're going to be excluded from public discourse, and we're even going to continue to be violently attacked as time goes on.

What do we do? We pray, first and foremost. We pray and thank God that we live in such a time that we see his word being revealed to us in its fullest, that the world hates him, it hates his truth, it hates the gospel, it loves its sin, and it is bound for hell, and we can see it playing out before us.

We pray and we thank God, and then we show the true love of Jesus Christ by preaching and proclaiming the gospel to a hateful,

God -hating, vile, depraved culture, because that's what they need.

Charlotte Hale, or excuse me, not Charlotte, Audrey Hale needed the gospel. Now, I pray that at some point,

Audrey Hale had heard the gospel growing up in that Christian school. I'm praying that her parents shared it with her, but that's what she needed.

Now, Audrey Hale and her sin may have rejected it and may have continued down this path as an eventual result of her sin, but that's what she needed.

And every person who celebrates her, every person who calls her a martyr, everybody who calls her a hero, everybody that thinks she's a victim of Christianity, desperately, there are a million

Audrey Hales out there, and they need the gospel of Jesus Christ. We are on a collision course. What are we going to do?

Are we going to do like, you know, people like Nate Collins of Revoice says, oh, let's kind of befriend these individuals because they're victims of Christianity?

Are we going to be like, you know, people like J .D. Greer and others who stand up and say, we got to be the most accepting of LGBT people, we got to use their pronouns, we got to compromise the

Christian faith so they feel loved because, you know, the Christian faith has been so terrible to them?

Or are we going to be genuinely loving Christians who proclaim the gospel with tears in our eyes, knowing, you know, with urgency in our voice, knowing where they're headed?

Because Audrey Hales stepped out of this life the second those police came around the corner, and she stood before God, and right now she is being held accountable for her sins.

Every single Audrey Hale out there needs to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Brother, we've got to understand that narrative matters to them because that narrative is what holds them up and makes them feel so warm and fuzzy about their sin, and yet we've got to be about people that are more concerned about not our reputations, not our jobs, not our financial wherewithal, not the stability of the economic culture.

We got to be concerned about people who are being elevated as some sort of moral spiritual warriors and heroes, and every one of them is going to step out of this life and into hell, and every one of them looks at us and sees

God and hates God and hates Christ. And one of the things that we see is the difference here. We've pointed it out, you know, they're calling for vengeance against Christians, violence against Christians, even the governor of Arizona, her press secretary called for death for Christians and people who are against transgenders.

Now, so not even hating transgender, just if you're not in agreement, calling for death, this is because narrative matters.

Why? What's the message that you've been hearing on this program that you hear from biblical

Christians? It's this. If you're listening to this and you're a transgender, you practice homosexuality, you practice transgenderism, you are thinking about it, you're concerned, you're not sure about your sexuality, this is the message that Christians have for you.

You, just like Chris and I, have broken God's law. Both of us, along with you, are sinners.

We're criminals in God's sight. God looks at us in our natural state as enemies of him.

We hate him. We would want to kill him if we could. That is the natural state of man.

And when we sit and try to live in a world that God has created without giving him the due glory that he deserves, we try to give that glory to ourselves and we're not deserving of it.

And we can never, it's never going to work to try to do that and fit in well in the world.

And so what happens? Well, we feel guilt. We feel guilt over sin. So what do we do? We throw ourselves into different things, drugs, alcohol, sex, work.

People will create something to say, well, if I just have this, everything will be better.

And for many of those that are in this whole movement, they're thinking if they just can have sex with whoever they want, if they could just be the gender that they think they want, they will be happy.

And they aren't happy. Oh, they'll say to the world, oh, I'm so happy. Look at me.

I'm getting the attention I want. But that's not true happiness. Well, it's not joy.

We'll put it that way because there's a difference between happiness and joy. Happiness is what happens. Joy is something that when things don't go your way, you're still going to have joy because it's rooted in something that doesn't change like God.

And so when you're listening to us and you're angry at us because we're not celebrating your perversion and that's unfortunately, that's what it is.

It's a perversion. It's a perversion of God's word. It doesn't mean you're a bad person in the sense of comparing yourself to me or anyone else.

We're all a bad person when we compare ourselves to God. None of us can keep that standard because God calls us to be absolutely perfect in word, thought, and deed.

None of us can do that. But comparatively to me, yeah, you may be more moral. You may be a nicer person.

I won't even dispute that. But that's not the issue. The issue is you have the same problem that I had, which is that apart from God doing work in our life, we would go to hell.

We'd go to the lake of fire for all of eternity, rightfully so, because we break

God's law. He is infinitely holy and infinitely just. And because of that, when we break his law, it has an infinite consequence.

And that's why God and only God can make the way of escape. God himself, being an eternal being, came to earth and became a man.

Think about that. Just meditate upon that. We all want to go to heaven. Jesus left heaven where all the angels are singing his praises.

There's no starvation, no sin, no sickness, none of that. He left heaven to come to earth for the explicit purpose of living a perfect human life, never breaking

God's law, and then dying on a cross as a substitute for us. What makes Jesus unique?

What makes him the only one that can offer forgiveness? Because he being truly

God can pay an eternal fine and pay it for more than one person because he is an eternal being.

Having become a man and living as a man a perfect life, never violating

God's law, he's the only one that can be a substitute for other human beings. That's what makes

Christianity unique because it's the only religion that can marry God's justice and mercy because mercy and justice are mutually exclusive.

But because he is infinite God, he can pay the infinite consequence.

That is justice. He paid the full weight and punishment of the sin that you and I committed.

And now he can offer mercy. It's the only religion in the world that can do that. It's the only religion in the world that explains, that has that solution because it's the only one that can solve it because of who

Jesus is. It's not based on works that we do. That's why every other man -made religion is a moral system.

What we're telling you is that you and I both are guilty of breaking God's law. If you're listening to me,

I don't know you personally, but I do know what God says about you and me. We both break

God's law. We are both criminals in his sight. We both need Jesus for forgiveness of sin.

That's the message that Christian has to the transgender, is that if you would turn from your sin, turn from the pride of thinking you're a good person or your good works will merit you anything.

Turn to Jesus Christ. Trust what he did in his death on your behalf.

Then you can have eternal life. That's the message. We're not wishing you dead. We actually want you to live as long as you possibly can so that you can hear the message that I just shared.

We don't want you dead. We recognize that you're living in sin. All of us have lived in sin, but we're calling you to repentance.

We're calling you to have the same transformation we had where God changes our self from being an enemy of God to being adopted into the family of God.

That's what we're calling you to. It's a very radically different message. Why? Because we're not trying to make a political message.

We have strong stances politically, but ours is not a political message.

We're not doing it because we have some agenda that we want the culture to buy into.

Whether everyone in America becomes a Christian or not, we're still going to proclaim the truth of God's word because it's true and because people need to hear it.

The most loving thing we could do is to tell people this is what God says about you and ask them to repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

Radically different message, Chris, than what we're hearing from the media, what we're hearing from those that want to have this day of rage against Christians.

We don't want them dead. They want us dead. They want us in jail. They want us silenced.

We want them to repent. Amen. Amen, brother. Amen. Folks, the reason, again, we did this show is for that message right there.

This is what we as Christians should be the most concerned about. When we see these things happening, we recognize it is the world responding as the world does against God.

It hates God. It hates his word. Why do we see things like transgender ideology being promoted?

Why are we seeing drag shows, family -friendly, worst phrase, another contradiction of terms, family -friendly drag shows?

Why are we seeing pornographic material being brought into school libraries and curriculums?

It is that the promotion of that which God hates will be brought into the youngest generations possible so that they will grow up with the belief that this is normal, there's nothing wrong with it, and anybody who says otherwise is hate -filled and angry and wants to destroy them.

That is what the world wants them to believe. So when Christians speak up and say, no, you cannot, you cannot do these things.

You cannot bring this to our children. You cannot say these things and make this normal in the eyes of our children.

What we are seeing is what God has said. Christ himself said that anyone, anyone who leads these little ones to sin, that it would be better if he were, a millstone were hung about his neck and he were drowned in the depths of the sea.

Better if that, meaning that the judgment for such corruption of children as is being done in our nation, it would be better that you were drowned in the depths of the sea than face

God on judgment day. That is what we are here proclaiming to people. You cannot do this.

You will not do this. We will not stand for this. Why? Because we do not want to invite the wrath of God upon a people which we are now beginning to see more and more unfold.

So we stand up and we proclaim the truth. This is sin. This is wrong. This is an offense to God.

It's a stench in his nostrils and you will stand before him on judgment day. God help you on that day because you will have no other hope.

You must repent. You must turn from these things. That is what we are asking you to consider when you see such a tragic, horrifying event as what happened in Nashville, Tennessee.

And you see all the discussions about Audrey Hale and how she was this wonderful person.

Understand this Audrey Hale needed Jesus Christ. She turned her back on Christ and the inevitable result of that sin led her to what she did.

And that is what every sinner would do to Christ if he or she could. Now proclaim the gospel because they desperately need to hear it.

Now when you see these things unfold, remember these are people that hate Christ. It's not a culture war issue.

It's a sin issue. Yes, the culture war is something we can and should be engaged in. We've talked about it plenty of times.

But why? Because it's a sin issue. Why do we say thus saith the Lord? Because it's a sin issue.

Why do we proclaim Christ? Because it's a sin issue. And these people are facing condemnation for eternity if they do not repent.

So hopefully, hopefully, hopefully this has been useful to you tonight. Hopefully we've approached this maybe a little bit differently than some outlets have done.

So we're not going to get into the politics. We want to get into the heart of the issue, which is the matter of the heart. So hopefully this has been a blessing to you.

Before we even begin to sign off, first and foremost, Andrew, thank you so much for jumping in and filling in tonight. I very much dislike doing it by myself because I really don't have to want to torture our listeners for an hour and a half, which is me.

So I appreciate you coming on. And I really appreciate everything that you added to this because I think it's so important for people to consider these things.

So before we let anybody go, any last thoughts? Well, I know I can't live up to the great

Richard's story, but I try. But I do appreciate coming in, and I know that you don't like to do it alone.

That's why when I saw your post, I said, hey, if you want someone to just be there, I can do that.

And like I said, I didn't get to really talk about these things publicly yet. So I'm glad that you gave me the opportunity to do that.

So thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Thank you, brother. Folks, you need to go check out Andrew's programs, both

Rap Report and Apologetics Live. And Rap Report is rap with two

Ps, by the way. Yeah. R -A -P -P Report, Rap Report. But also Apologetics Live, it is

Thursday nights. You guys are 8 p .m.? 8 to 10 Eastern Time.

Eastern Time. 8 to 10 Eastern Time. Unless you end up on Anthony Time, then we'll never know when it ends. But it's great because it's a live webcast, and you can view it through Facebook, YouTube, and other outlets, because he uses a setup called

StreamYard, so they can go to multiple locations. And I would encourage you, for no other reason, jump into the

Facebook or the YouTube chats, because the discussions that come out of what they're doing online are so fantastic, and sometimes absolutely entertaining.

You got to be careful with the chats. You might get lost and forget what they're talking about. But I would really encourage you, and if you are someone who has a apologetics question,

Andrew, you invite them to come on the show, and either in the chat or come online and ask you guys questions directly.

I think you say, you can ask them to answer any questions, I recall, right? Well, that's the purpose of the show, is to not just teach apologetics, but to answer questions.

So yes, I say that I can answer any question anyone has about God and the Bible, because I don't know is a perfectly good answer.

Amen. Amen. I love that. I love that. So I want to encourage you to go check those out. And please go check out the

Christian Podcast Community. You're going to find good stuff there. And I've said this before, but I'm going to say, because Andrew's here and he can confirm it, to get into Christian Podcast Community, it's not just, hey,

I'm Christian, so let me in. There's a process. I've known Andrew for years. Rich has known Andrew for years.

He invited us, and we still had to go through the process. And then his own podcast co -host had to still go through the process.

Hey, I've had personal friends who I encouraged to join, and they got rejected.

So yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, but I told you, you should consider it, but we do a lot of vetting.

We only accept about 30 to 40 percent of those that apply. So we're really strict with it, with who we accept on, because we want to disciple those people, and we're going to try to work with them to improve their podcast.

And so if people just want downloads, we're not the right place for you. I mean, yeah, you'd get a lot with us, but we're just not going to be the right place for you.

So I definitely encourage you guys to go check it out. By the way, it didn't say this at the beginning of the show, slavedotheking .com.

Andrew mentions it earlier. That's our website. It is where you can keep up to date on new episodes that are coming out.

It's where you can make contact with us directly through email, or you can just email us at voiceofreasonradio at gmail .com,

and you can also get articles as they come out. I'm trying to be better about putting articles on the website.

The problem is that all of y 'all don't go to the website. So I have to go to places like Twitter and write long form tweets, because it's the only place anybody wants to read stuff.

So go to the website, and I might start putting more of my writing there. But go there, get signed up, and become a follower.

If you want to support the show, you can do it through there. If you want to get merchandise for the show, the links to where you can get a t -shirt and stickers for the show to help promote the show are over there as well.

So thank you for joining us. Thank you for hanging in there for a little bit longer than usual. We've been trying to keep it tighter to the close hour, but there was a lot to cover here, a lot of ground we had to go over.

So a little extra time. We appreciate your patience with us. If you find the show useful and helpful, a couple of things

I would ask you to do. Number one, let us know. Even if you hate the show, as long as you are respectful in your response, please email us.

If you like the show or you have questions, you have ideas, please email us. The other thing is, whatever podcast app that you use, whether it's

Spotify or Apple Podcasts or whatever, because we're on a lot of them. If it's able to do so, consider leaving a review.

I've said this before. Reviews don't do anything for us. It doesn't exactly pump us up in the algorithm or anything.

It doesn't make us more visible, but it does let someone know what you think of the show. Just like if you go onto Amazon and you want to buy a book or a product and you look at the reviews and go, wow, that's a piece of junk.

I'm not touching that. Then you would know, okay, those are things that I don't want to buy.

Oh, here's something I will buy. It's good. Same thing for reviews for podcasts. It helps other people know what kind of content to expect and whether or not it's helpful.

Sometimes the most entertaining ones to read are the ones that hate podcasts, like Andrew's and mine, because then you realize, wow, we must be hitting the right buttons.

We don't encourage that, by the way. Please don't do that. It can be entertaining to read. Those are the two things

I would ask you to consider doing. Then lastly, if this show is helpful to you, and a lot of you seem to be doing that, consider sharing it with other people.

Not to boost up the numbers. We don't like to talk about the numbers because we're not on a numbers show. We're not trying to chase downloads, but sharing it helps other people know that there's content out there that can be beneficial to them.

While I've said this many times, don't you ever allow any podcast or any sermon podcast that's out there to replace your commitment to a local church.

If you ever do that, I'll come after you. Don't do that. I'll be very mad at you. I'll speak very tertially to you.

We hope to be a tertiary tool that can come alongside and help you. Share it if you think this will be beneficial to someone else.

All right, folks. Thank you so much for everything. Thank you for being with us through this time. God bless you guys, and whatever you do this week.

Rich is not here, so I'll say it for him. Make sure you share the biblical means of salvation with somebody this week.

Find someone. Find an Audrey Hale to speak to, and then whatever you do, do it for the glory of God. God bless you guys.

Good night. We'll see you next time. are located just outside New York City in Newark and New Brunswick.

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