Open Phones with Remote Connection to Dr. White in San Francisco

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And good afternoon to you, my name is James White and coming to you live today from San Francisco, California Well, not technically

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Mill Valley is north of San Francisco right on the bay took a walk this morning right along the bay here in the

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San Francisco area after the fog had cleared and Those of you back in Phoenix Where it could be a hundred and six degrees today.

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I just want you to know That the temperature range today here in Mill Valley will change a whopping six degrees

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From a low of 55 to a high of 61 61 degrees

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I want to repeat that for those of you Who are sweltering inside their houses? 61 degrees will be the high today

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So I am very pleased to get this opportunity to come out here Some of you who have listened to a lot of the dividing line programs know that each summer in fact,

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I think it was about I Guess it was two years ago. Now. Yeah, I was two years ago now that's in this very room as I recall

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I'm staying the same room. I stayed in two years ago Jeff Neal and I did a program on kpxq live from out here on Norman Geisler's comments about John Calvin's view of the

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Atonement as I recall and I Get the opportunity coming out here each summer for I think it was the fourth or fifth year now

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To teach Christian philosophy of religion which in essence we have turned into a

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Christian apologetics Program or a class here It runs for a total of eight days four hours a day and the rest of time

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For some reason I end up doing a lot of sleeping I don't know what it is about the Bay Area and the the air around here or something

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But I've been I can take naps in the afternoon then sleep eight nine hours at night. It's just absolutely incredible Maybe I needed to get the rest.

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I don't know but it's beautiful outside today and we're alive and the interesting thing

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Out here is one of my students made mention of a radio station

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That is here in the Bay Area 1640 a .m. And so I went ahead and tuned it in right after class and lo and behold, it's

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EWTN radio and Yes, I know if I had cable I could probably watch

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EWTN to my heart's content Which probably wouldn't take more than three or four minutes to content my heart

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But it is interesting to drive around and listen and the very first thing I heard as soon as I went to 1640 was

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Tim Staples. Yes, Tim Staples was interviewing some mother superior from Mexico about prison ministry or something along that that line as I recall and then

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And this is what we're gonna start off with today, but I'm gonna throw it out to the those in the audience We have 29 folks in the chat room right now.

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Well, not technically we have 27 folks 26 folks in the chat room and three bots but anyways

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Throw it out to you folks. If you have a general interest questions, you'd like to throw my direction

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Please feel free to give us a call toll free eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three eight six six eight five

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Four sixty seven sixty three first time. We've done the whole program with me on a remote location

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So please be patient with us as our brilliantly trained and professional sound technicians

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Work diligently on the very complicated sound boards and sound equipment there in the massive studios of Whatever we are to Balance out the sound and make it all work work together

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In fact, we have one person online already with a good topic to address and that is limited atonement or particular redemption, but one of the things that I heard on 1640 a .m.

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EWTN radio As I was heading to class yesterday morning

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I got into my car and I suppose I could walk up to class but if anyone's ever been to the campus here of Golden Gate Seminary, you know that it's a very very hilly campus and Very just most beautiful campus.

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I think of all the Southern Baptist seminaries and So I was driving up to the main building, which is up the top of the the highest hill here

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The classrooms look out over the bay. You can see San Francisco across the bay and so if you get bored of what

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I'm saying, you sort of look out over there and this is pretty and I turned on the radio and lo and behold they were replaying the scripture matters program with dr.

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Scott Hahn and I actually sat in my car down in the parking lot for a while just so I could listen and Hear what was being discussed and lo and behold

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I had just missed Dr. Hahn's insightful exegesis of Romans chapters 9 10 and 11 and So I was listening and my attention was immediately caught not only when

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I recognized the voice of dr Hahn, but the things that he was saying and so I listened as long as I could and Find out, you know,

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I Basically had to eventually just bail out and get to class because the program was going to go right up to 8 a .m

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and that's when my class starts and I need to set up my computer and the Video presentations

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I'm doing in the PowerPoint and all the rest that fun stuff. So I got to listen about 12 15 minutes or so excuse me and During that time

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I was able to pick up a number of things and I was going to use that to get started with We'll go ahead and take our call after serving to do these things and encourage others to get on board if you have questions today at 8 6 6 8 5 4 6 7 6 3

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But the things I picked up from the discussion first of all, he limited as Roman Catholics tend to do

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The in the first eight chapters of the book of Romans. He limited the law to the ceremonial law

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So that it was interesting whoever was on with him and I didn't catch the person's name is a Matthew something as I recall

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Made the comment that I found very interesting that Catholics find what

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Paul says in Romans 1 through 8 Uncomfortable and I wonder why

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But they they got around that by doing the old well when Paul says we're not justified by works of law

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What he means is we're not so justified by works of the ceremonial law

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Which is an old saw I dealt with it in the God who justifies which by the way for those of you who are waiting for it

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Will most definitely according to Bethany house to be available by August 23rd We hope to be shipping even before that if we are blessed, but Yet as it may

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Jonathan Edwards Has an excellent section on that if you have his book justification by faith alone

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He has an excellent section debunking this common assertion that what Paul is talking about here is only

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Works of the ceremonial law. I mean just think about it Romans chapter 2

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Talks about how the Gentiles have the law written on their conscience. What what law is that?

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wave offerings the Clothing of priests, I mean come on what what law is it the

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Gentiles have written upon their heart? Moral law, of course and in Romans 3 we're told about a lot of the knowledge of sin

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How is that from the ephod of the of the priest? I mean, come on, this is ridiculous But maybe that's why some of these folks who promote these things don't want to do debates because we would ask difficult questions like that but then

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Right before I took a break Han made a fascinating statement He was talking about how and when she get to the chapter 11 it's talking about how the engrafted branches the

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Gentiles should not boast against the natural branches the Jews and It was absolutely fascinating to hear

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Han say that well, you know what we need to learn from this is that while the

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Jews had their Sacramental ceremonies we too have our

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Sacramental ceremonies, but our sacramental ceremonies are much more powerful than the

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Jews Sacramental ceremonies, but even despite how our sacramental ceremonies are

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More powerful than theirs we still should not boast and be arrogant even though we have these more powerful

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Sacramental ceremonies and I'm just sitting there absolutely amazed. I've been preaching through In Hebrews 6 7 & 8 and we'll be doing

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Hebrews 9 in a few weeks at Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church those those sermons by the way are online

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Or at least they were online. They may not be now, but we can I think we should probably try to link to them anyways

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It just amazed me to hear someone referring to the sacraments in that way But it shouldn't have because when you think about it, that's what

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Rome has done. Rome has gone back to the old ways They don't understand they don't have a finished sacrifice

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They don't they don't have in fact. It was bouncing all the place here, but last evening.

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I was listening to the station and they had this Jesuit priest on and this

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Jesuit priest was preaching to a number of other priests and I found it

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Very almost refreshing because he was old time. He was he was

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Straightforward he was you know not doing the ecumenical Uchiguchi, I mean he was really really really wanting to to go after the idea that the priesthood is necessary and and and all the rest of stuff and at one point he's talking about the mass and He's going we must realize

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Christ Dies upon the altar he dies Dies dies upon the altar and he's emphasizing that he's just just going at it and it's not like the the the the weak need ecumenical

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Roman Catholicism, it's what we know they're truly to believe all along and If he gets to the end and I was sitting here listening

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I was telling folks in chat room I was listening to it got to the end and discovered it was John Hardin Who some of you would know he wrote as a catechism very very well -known

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Catholic theologian man He was just preaching like anything of course. We was preaching with heresy but he was it was very clearly identifiable as heresy, and he was talking about Christ dying dying dying upon the altar and With that in mind to hear what

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Han was saying they don't have a finished sacrifice They're left with they're left with the Old Covenant all they've got is a souped -up version of the

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Old Covenant It's it's just it was just absolutely fascinating to listen to him talking about And somehow getting that out of Romans 9 10 11 it was it was unreal later on I heard

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Han talking about Romans 9 I could tell very clearly from his comments even though I didn't hear his actual exegesis

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When he made reference to it right before I had to get out of the car to go to class It was very clear that he had given the old

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Corporate nations Esau is a nation Jacob's a nation.

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This isn't anything about particularity. This isn't anything about particular Predestination Basically the same stuff.

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Let's be honest that Norm Geisler presented and chosen, but free I honestly don't believe that Norm Geisler and Scott Hahn would disagree about the exegesis of Romans 9

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I think they would give the exact same Same perspective on that particular issue

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So it was fascinating to listen to it's going to be on live Monday night And I'll have to admit

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I'll have to admit if it's on live Monday night It's going to be really hard to sit here on my hands

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Depending on the topic is but I'm going to try because I realized hey, I know When someone calls in to this program, hey, you know, we're in control

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You know, we I have the advantage on any on the program when I'm in control of it Calling into someone else's program put them at the advantage of course

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If they wanted me to call it and wanted me to talk with them about them I'd love to I'd love to do so and in fact,

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I would like to extend to to Carl Keating and James Aiken Patrick Madrid Steve Ray Scott Hahn All the folks there at Steubenville if you guys would like to come on our program

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Give us a ring drop us a line. We'll be glad to have you on we'll be glad to talk with you about theology

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We'll be glad to talk to you about to the issues raised by Roman Catholicism But if you'd like to have me on your program, just let me know have cell phone extra minutes.

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We'll call I Really don't expect to be getting a whole lot of answers to about that.

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But anyway, that's that's what we we did So it was it was fascinating to listen to and I have been trying to listen as much as I can

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Though I think that if that was available in Phoenix, it would absolutely drive me to distraction eventually Because obviously you want to respond to this stuff you want to Do you want to get in there and say no?

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No, wait a minute. Listen, listen to what you just said Let's test it for consistent with the consistency. Let's test it against the scriptures.

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Let's do some exegesis here and you can't do that I would live my whole life sitting on a cell phone or something calling into these places

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So that that probably wouldn't be a really really good thing. So anyhow, that was

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That's a fascinating subject. We could get some more into it, but we already have We already have two folks online we have

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Dean and Brian and Everybody else you can get online to it.

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It's like well, actually we may have our lines filled right now I think because I'm using one of them 866 8 5 4 67 63.

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Okay, let's um, let's everybody take a Deep breath and Everybody stand back from the the sound equipment there in the studios and let's see if we can make this work

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Let's let's try to talk to Dean from Pittsburgh Give it a shot there folks.

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Dean. Are you there? and I don't hear anything so far and I'm trying to get hold of Dean Do you do to do to do to do to do

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I told you we needed to? You know Pray that this would work out.

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All right Oh Dean how about Brian? How about anybody? Is anybody there?

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I'm just letting everybody know. I cannot hear anything on my end. So if I can hear you on the phone

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Now I can't I'm assuming that Brian D is

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Dean. I'm not really sure about that But we're trying to get folks on the phone and I'm just gonna keep sitting here filling time

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Until someone informs me what I need to do. He should be there now. Oh I can barely hear you.

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Is that you Dean? No, this is Brian. Oh Brian. Hello Brian. How are you? I'm doing

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All right, please speak slowly clearly and distinctly because I can just barely hear you.

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Okay, I Wanted to ask I've been a Christian for about 18 or 19 years and in that time

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I've been working with people with disabilities Cognitive disabilities.

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Uh -huh. And something that I've always struggled with is I'm not going to word this right.

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They seem innocent But from the reform perspective if I'm correctly saying it, we're all guilty before God And I struggle with that.

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I I know God is just and God is compassionate But it's a more of an emotional kind of thing

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How one Trusts God on that, right? There's times a lot.

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I lose a lot of students and there's times that it's I Don't know and I know

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I trust God. Does that make sense? It does. I know exactly what you're referring to and it's

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I think it's one of the reasons that we're given a Unchanging scripture is that we we need that That curb to our emotions.

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I was thinking about it this week when I was showing a video of the debate between myself and Mitch Pacwa and I was

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Contemplating the fact that You know Mitch and I could be such good buds and we could get along real well

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But there is this unchanging standard that reminds me that that Mitch is

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Continuing to embrace a false gospel and continuing to teach a false gospel and as much as my emotions

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Want to override that And as common as it is in our society in our church

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For our emotions to override the word and to mess up our priorities I need to be faithful to that in the same way when you're talking about folks who have these

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Disabilities, this is the result of sin existing in our in our world

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And the fact that God has told us that there are consequences for our sin and sometimes those consequences are passed on For many generations, and I'm not sure what kind of disabilities are referring to I would personally think that a person who is is not able to To understand that the world around them gets us into the issue of the mentally retarded and the the

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Infant who dies an infancy issue and people argue all sorts of things about that, too

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And I think it's best to leave that in the hands of God. It's not something to put the scriptures positively addressed, but at the same time

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I do understand exactly what you're what you're saying there And I think that their condition first of all gives you the opportunity of ministry

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It reminds you of the blessings that God has given to you the responsibilities that you have And having a sound body and a sound mind to use them to God's glory

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But fundamentally when you get down to it, so there are certain things in this life that During the course of this life.

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We have to leave in God's hands recognizing that we have a very very very limited perspective

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We have very very very little Knowledge in comparison to what the totality of experience is upon which to judge and we need to be very careful about And questioning

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God's goodness recognizing that when we do Enter into his presence We will have a completely different perspective from which to see and and instead of looking through a glass darkly

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We'll see things as they truly are And we have God's promise that the judge of all the earth will do right and all that has done, right?

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And in the end everything will resound to his glory even if we can't see how it does now

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I don't believe there's a purposeless person or a purposeless event in this world and Even those individuals no matter what their condition have a purpose in God's plan even if we can't see what it is

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So yeah, the the effects of sin are are extremely difficult for us to to deal with but they're all around us

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And God has a purpose in that as well. Well that helped the one thing he said was

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The Basic standard of the Non -changing standard of the scriptures, but I think you're breaking up just a little bit on me

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Could you could you try it the basic did you say the basic standard the basic? Non -changing standard of the scriptures.

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That's something I haven't really thought about never thought about it in that perspective. So Well good.

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I hope that's helpful to you. We do need that because I think that one of the One of the issues that we have to face in the broad evangelical spectrum of Christianity today is the fact that Postmodern thought would tell us that we should exalt our understandings and our feelings the point of becoming the standard by which we read the scriptures and a

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Lot of conservative Christians struggle to understand liberalism and to understand what's going on in liberal denomination in reality

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It's not too difficult to understand once we exalt our Experience and our feelings and our emotions the point of being the lens to which we look at scripture

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It's easy to understand what's happened in the Anglican Church. What's happened in The liberal

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Lutheran churches and the liberal Presbyterian churches on the American Baptist any of the liberal groups out there

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That you want to you want to look at? that's how they can look at scripture and continue to say we want to utilize scripture and yet at the same time turn around and Utterly abandon the moral standards of the scriptures or the doctrinal teachings of the scriptures or anything else because this postmodern thought

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Makes their their feelings and their experiences the lens through which they look at scripture Rather than the scriptures being the lens through which we examine our own experiences recognizing the inherent unreliability of our minds and of our own

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Experiences to to give us a true guide. So that really I think explained a lot of what we see today

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Well, thank you. I appreciate your perspective. It just helps. Okay. Thanks a lot Brian. Thanks for calling today.

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Bye -bye. Bye -bye Bye -bye eight six six eight five four sixty seven

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Sixty -three, we've got Dean back from Pittsburgh. Let's see if we can track

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Dean down there You there Dean Dwight, yes, sir. How are you doing?

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I'm doing great. Thanks. Hey, I really appreciate your ministry It's been real enjoyable. I've been tuning into the broadcasts of the dividing line in your discussions with about dr.

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Hunt and Dave Hunt. Yes, Dave Hunt. Yes, sir, and it's been real interesting

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I'm not a Calvinist and a lot of the questions that I had in my own mind He really brought out and you're able to deal with those online and I really appreciate it.

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It's it's been real enlightening Good. I'd like to ask you a question if you don't mind that I haven't been able to Find an answer to in reading.

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I'm just starting Arthur Pinks the Salvatory of God. I read Darcy Sproul's book about Chosen I mean sure my god the question

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I have for you, dr. White is with regard to the Representative headship of Christ and an

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Adam Federal headship. Uh -huh. Yes, sir. The in the New Testament it talks about in the book of Corinthians that Jesus Christ was a second

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Adam and what I don't understand is that if Adam Could represent all of humanity in his fall and take everyone into a state of spiritual deadness

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Why why can't Jesus Christ? Be the representative of all men in the atonement because he there's a parallel between the first and second

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Adam in the Bible, right? Well the answer to that I think in Romans chapter 5 is it's fairly clear the response the question would be he could if that was

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God's intention in the same way that It is God's intention that determines the scope of Adam's representation

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That is God shows that Adam would represent all those who are United with him in physical descent

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So with God's choice that Christ would represent all who are united with him by faith

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And that faith of course comes as a result of the sovereign election of God So there are two humanities represented in Romans chapter 5

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The one is the totality of humanity that falls in Adam The other is the totality of the elect that are united by God's mercy to Christ The the answer your question is if God had chosen to be a universalist in other words

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If God had chosen to unite all of humanity To Christ so that his death is in their place.

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His mediation is in their place His intercession is in their place. Their penalty is paid in him and so that all

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Humanity will be saved. He certainly could have chosen to do so And that gets us more into the question of well, why would

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God choose not To save every single individual person and at that point the biblical answer is because of God's freedom that is if grace is

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Necessary if it must be given to everyone and then God no longer has a choice God is no longer free and in fact

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There are certain elements of God's glory that will not be able to be seen for example His just punishment of the wicked who continue in their rebellious ways against him and so the the answer is yes

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He could have done it that way But the Bible very clearly tells us that there will be those who are not united to Christ whose sins continue upon their own head whose wrath the

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God's wrath falls upon them and The penalty of our sin would pay to one of two places either upon the cross of Calvary or in an eternal hell itself and The only situation which

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God Has the freedom to illustrate both his justice and his mercy is when

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God has the freedom to Be merciful to whom he is merciful and as Romans 9 puts it to harden whom he hardened

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Those words are there and a lot of folks chase at them, but they're they're there in the pages of Scripture You still there?

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I think we lost you Well, I think we lost Dean it sounded like a click on my end we lost

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Dean, okay Well, I hope Dean caught that and I hope that was useful to him 866 -854 -6763

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Is the phone number two excellent questions right off the bat. I hope we did because I am on the on the cell phone today and Calling from Mill Valley, California and If anyone would like to call in today with more excellent questions like that I'm sure that rich and the folks will

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Manage to get you on and get us hooked up together. You got to realize I Realize what what rich is trying to do there?

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There's only one volume control and I'm louder than the callers are so Whenever I make a comment over them

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It blows it out and whenever it's just them talking got turn it up and then when I start talking turn it down and so Rich is gonna get a workout today

27:54

But that's the way it works. I'm sorry believes commonly called Calvinism He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent

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Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant in his book the potter's freedom James White replies to dr

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Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply It is a defense of the very principles upon which the

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Protestant Reformation was founded Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style of both scholars and laymen can appreciate

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James White masterfully counters the evidence against so -called extreme Calvinism Defines what the reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of The potter's freedom a defense of the

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Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen, but free by James White You'll find it in the reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen org

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The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church

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The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with us this coming

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Lord's Day Our morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And our worship service is at 10 45

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Evening services are at 6 30 p .m. On Sunday and Wednesday prayer meeting is at 7

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We are located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix You can call for further information at 26 grace or look us up on the web at www .prbc

29:33

.org More than any time in the past Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together

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They are standing shoulder -to -shoulder against social evils They are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements and many

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Evangelicals are finding the history tradition and grandeur of the Roman Catholic Church appealing

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This newfound rapport has caused many evangelical leaders and laypeople to question the age -old disagreements that have divided

30:02

Protestants and Catholics Aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language? James White's book the

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Roman Catholic controversy is an absorbing look at current views of tradition in Scripture the papacy the mass purgatorian indulgences and Marian doctrine

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James White points out the crucial differences that remain regarding the Christian life and the heart of the gospel itself.

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They cannot be ignored Order your copy of the Roman Catholic controversy by going to our website at a omen org incorporating the most recent research and solid biblical truth letters to a

30:38

Mormon elder is a series of personal letters written to a fictional Mormon missionary Examining the teachings and theology of the

30:44

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints The book brings a relational approach to material usually presented in textbook style

30:51

James White draws from his extensive apologetics ministry to thousands of Mormons in presenting the truth of Christianity with well -defined arguments

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James White provides readers with insight and understanding into the Book of Mormon the prophecies visions and teachings of Joseph Smith the theological

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Implications of the doctrines of Mormonism and other major historical issues relevant to the claims of the

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LDS Church This marvelous study is a valuable text for Christians who talk with Mormons and is an ideal book to be read by Mormons Letters to a

31:23

Mormon elder be sure to get your copy today in the Mormonism section of our bookstore at a omen org

31:53

Well, I can assure you that John Tess's music sounds considerably better in person than it does over a cell phone in an earphone

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In fact, I've heard it in person and in fact some some people have asked me as I mentioned

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John Tess once in a while I went to his concert in Phoenix a couple of years ago the

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Avalon tour and I was very very pleasantly pleased that not only did he give his testimony, but He talked about his faith a number of times so much so that I noticed in the weeks afterwards on his website a number of people left messages complaining that he had too much religion in his show and My kids in fact one of my children is in the chat room right now.

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Hi summer. Miss you be home Wednesday. Bye Actually summer was just in an

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LDS chat room talking to them as I find just utterly fun anyways Summer and Josh were sitting down the end of the row.

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We were right on the edge and In the last number one last number so the band comes out into the

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Into the audience and Charlie Bichirot who was at that time with John Tess as a violinist

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Knelt down right next to summer and Josh and played a part of this incredible solo of his

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This song it was just just unbelievable and after he got up they continued back into the audience

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I remember both kids looking at me like with their eyeballs as big as saucers Like can you believe what just happened and I I hope they never ever forget that I certainly won't it was really really really really cool that that happened.

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But anyways, that's neither here nor there 866 -854 -6763 866 -854 -6763 is the toll free phone number and I am informed by the powers that be that the next person who

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Who comes online? We're going to try something different with you. So please

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We need a guinea pig Actually, I think it's what we're saying. So if someone feel

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Feel free to give us a call at 866 -854 -6763 if you have questions and not just about Calvinism and Arminianism I know we've been talking a lot about that over the past few weeks just like we did two summers ago and responding to a

34:31

Norm Geisler, but if you have questions about the King James only ism Mormonism the

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Trinity the deity of Christ Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, etc 866 -854 -6763 is the phone number and if we do not get a lot of callers,

34:48

I will be forced to I will be forced to begin singing and that's that definitely is something that you all want to avoid like the plague and So you want to get on get online?

35:05

I'm noticing that most everybody in the channel is is about a minute behind where I am

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So I'm not sure if that means it could be well can we get some callers? 866 -854 -6763

35:19

The next big thing on the on the ministry list I have a number of places to go on to be heading

35:27

Back into the backwoods of the Carolinas, I guess in September I'm practicing on my banjo and hoping not to have a deliverance type experience when when we

35:43

Get back there And in fact if if someone in the chat room who knows about the trip in September would like to call in and Give that information on the dividing line.

35:55

That'll get to a lot more people that way So maybe someone in the chat room who knows about that Would like to would like to call in and give the announcements of my little trip back there in September in October I I'm going

36:11

I you know, I suppose I have my Handspring visor here, which by the way is sort of like a disease.

36:18

It seems to be spreading around To everyone involved in the ministry. Everyone is now getting handspring visors

36:26

Not quite as nice as my visor edge, but they are getting handspring visors. They're they're close, you know and Mm -hmm.

36:33

Anyways, I have my schedule on here and I should be looking at it here to tell you that in October We are looking at a number of things going on the first weekend.

36:44

The Sixth will be the trip to The trip to Salt Lake City, this will be number

36:53

Two boy, you can tell you're getting old when you cannot remember Hmm Is this 32 or 33?

37:05

I think it's 33 because I Whatever. It's been a lot number of times.

37:12

We've gone up to a Salt Lake City and we're gonna head up there for the the general conference of the

37:18

Mormon Church and Then two weeks later on the 18th through the 21st

37:27

We I will be in Lynchburg, Virginia for those of you who

37:35

Are in that particular area, I don't I've never been to Lynchburg before but I'll be in Lynchburg, Virginia For the founders conference there.

37:46

Dr. Bruce Ware is going to be speaking and Those of you who are familiar with him know that he is has really taken the lead in providing the response to a finite

38:00

To the to the I'm not process theology though part of that as well open theism and in writing his book

38:10

But to call the lesser glory of God, I believe God's lesser glory. That's what it's called and So he's going to be speaking

38:19

I'm going to be speaking on the subject of the Potter's freedom and That'll be the 18th through the 21st of October in Lynchburg, Virginia For those of you in that area

38:31

I'm not really honestly certain how you can get in touch with the folks that are doing that But you could drop us a note and I might be able to be able to figure that out and then

38:44

November oh boy. I don't have it in my visor. I should have in my visor. I believe it's the 10th and 11th and 12th

38:51

Or the 10th and 11th I'm going to be speaking at the Reformed Baptist Institute at Westminster Seminary in Escondido, which is near San Diego in,

39:02

California and on the 12th, I think I'm going to have the opportunity of teaching some classes there and but the actual

39:10

Get -together which will be on evangelism Reformed Baptist evangelism will be on the 10th and 11th of November In Escondido now a lot of folks have been asking have we heard anything back from Dave Hunt yet?

39:28

To my knowledge. We have not my assumption has been should a letter or something arrive phone call anything else

39:38

That I would hear immediately From from okay,

39:44

I'm being told yes, definitely not yet From Mr. Hunt, I Recognize he he travels a lot and he's out of town a lot.

39:53

And so I don't expect to hear anything for a little while. We obviously will let everyone know concerning Mr.

40:03

Hunt availability and willingness to engage in a debate. I have always hoped that we would be able to arrange something for Hopefully like the first weekend in December that's when we did the debate with Mitch Packer last year was the first weekend in December and I would very much like to attempt to maybe schedule something at that time if That is going to be a possibility and then

40:30

Coming up in January, please pray for me. I'm supposed to be I'm scheduled to be in Israel for all of January Living there and teaching there obviously, there has been a lot of violence in Israel over the past year and That Obviously is something that crosses my mind.

40:54

I I do have a family and children and do not want to Deprive my children of their father and so I've certainly been giving consideration to that particular

41:09

Situation, but hopefully we'll have the opportunity of going over there and ministering to the Saints there in Israel in January so that's what's coming up and Let's go ahead and we've got some more callers and I would like to invite others to call in when we have one right now

41:25

I would like to have others call in 866 8 5 4 67 63 8 6 6 8 5 4 6 7 6 3

41:36

Get online now and Including those of you who have who would have information

41:43

Concerning my trip back east in September Please feel free to call in and then we can have an information available to everyone who will be listening.

41:54

So Anyways, let's go ahead and talk with Johnny great state

42:03

The Bear Republic the great state of California as well and the lights are still on So Johnny, are you there?

42:12

Yeah, I'm right here. Hey, you sound better than the previous folks did. Oh, that's great Are you the value of the volume went down a little bit on you, but it's more clear.

42:20

So it's better Well, we we need to analyze these things and figure them out because this is our our first shot of doing it this way

42:28

And so far so good. Alrighty Okay, my question is dealing with Matthew chapter 24, of course, but it's not an eschatological question

42:37

That's good, because you know that if it were an eschatological question, I would hang up on you immediately Okay, my question is about the passage in it and it also has to do with how

42:47

Lindsay wouldn't again not eschatological Helen's he said in Matthew 24 24 where it says for false

42:53

Christ and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders So as to his lead if possible, even the electives of Matthew 24 24

43:02

Helen's he said in this is a long time ago on on TBN that the Greek word you watch

43:07

TVM, huh? every now and then I Get the stomach them sometimes and okay.

43:14

I tell my family to to not take everything They say it's face value, but let's see if I figure it out.

43:19

You watch the TVN and listen to st. Joseph's, right? Every now and then of course st.

43:26

Joseph's communications is no longer on the radio station over here. They couldn't pay the Service, you know,

43:31

I heard but I heard them they were actually on this morning here in California I heard some guy on this morning about nine o 'clock.

43:40

I'll take that back around noon They have a two -hour program up here, but I did so that's interesting.

43:45

They're not down in their own their own area Well, they weren't able to pay for the thing. See they have they have different shows

43:51

I know that Jesse Romero has one in Spanish since he's the bilingual guy for Actually in the

43:57

Catholic Resource Center Which Tim Staples is the director of right and st.

44:02

Joseph's is like the sister ministry that they're linked together Because I guess the owner is Terry Barber of both of them, right?

44:09

Yeah, he is and then there's what Staples used to be with st. Joseph's Catholic radio rather than communications, which is a different group, isn't it?

44:17

Yes. Okay. All right. Well, anyways, how is it? Yes, we're how is the end Matthew 24 and the phrase is

44:24

I do the time if possible If it were possible, even the elect would be deceived of course to my understanding the

44:31

Greek can have various meanings because they have different words and that can be translated the same way in English and He says that the

44:38

Greek wording here means that the elect Could be misled and they had an Armenian Pentecostal Pastor speak to me about this some years back young man to be a pastor

44:49

But nonetheless, he was the pastor of the church and he said that this proves that it is possible for people to lose his salvation

44:57

Exactly, but I am I could argue different ways that but I was gonna ask you you as a

45:02

Greek scholar Is this true or is how Lindsay wrong in this? Well, you know, it's interesting when people say well

45:09

The Greek indicates that the Greek indicates that most of the time not always but most of the time when people say

45:16

Minds when people say well, what does the Greek here say my my most basic response is well the same thing in English does

45:23

Really in in this particular situation. It's not a difficult passage at all the point of the passage is the the amazement and the great signs how the great signs and wonders and how very powerful they will be and the point of being made is

45:45

They are so powerful and they're so great that if it were possible These would be signs and wonders that could deceive even the elect.

45:54

There's nothing in Anything in the in the passage, I mean

45:59

There's nothing in the tenses that are used. There's nothing and there's not really a conditional sentence here generally

46:07

That would indicate anything That shows me anything of what how

46:12

Lindsay is referring to at all. The real question is why does it say

46:18

I? Do Natan if possible? Why is that phrase there? It would be it would make

46:24

That phrase he says that phrase indicates that it is possible No, I bet that there's nothing in the phrase itself

46:32

That carries that it is it is a there's a conditional phrase there If possible now, it would be much simpler to say great signs and wonders so as to Mislead the elect that would make their point that the the elect could be misled

46:49

Notice it's not talking here about salvation or something else But it's just simply saying the elect could be misled why put in the phrase if possible

46:57

It's in point of fact that doesn't have any significance the significance as far as I understand it, of course is that it's raising the very issue if Possible and the question is well, is that possible?

47:09

Well the the you know Then then you have to go someplace else to find out is it possible for the elect to be deceived?

47:17

And of course Jesus own response that would be found in passages such as John chapter 10 and things like that And no one can snatch them on my father's hand.

47:24

I am the father one, etc, etc So it is interesting again to see a situation where a the subject is not

47:31

The salvation of God's people It's talking about false prophets and the and the point of the passages the the power of the signs that they would show

47:40

And how they would they are just absolutely amazing They will they can mimic anything that for example

47:46

Janice and Jambres did in regards to when Moses appeared before Pharaoh They they have great signs and wonders they can show and they would deceive anyone if it were possible including the elect

47:57

But the passage is not addressing the issue of whether it is or is not possible And the very fact matter is the fact that that phrase is put in there would indicate to me

48:08

That that Christ himself recognizes that is not a possibility Exactly the way

48:13

I understood the passage I felt that the words if possible because I mean being I know that of course

48:19

You know that I used to be Armenian, right? But all my life had always been taught to believe in eternal security

48:25

So I was kind of caught in the middle there, right? And I was trying to defend two positions at which contradicted each other, right?

48:33

and there are many people that I know who do went that route who can who absolutely convinced of the

48:40

Perfection of Christ working internal security all of a sudden came to realize you know what I'm contradicting myself I'm just simply not being consistent here and and then went the other direction even though it is interesting

48:50

Clark Pinnock Who used to be reformed it became not just Armenian, but now he's basically a process theologian

48:58

Because and the first thing that fell for him was eternal security So he went the exact opposite direction though. I found that to be extremely rare.

49:04

But anyways you were saying, okay So what I was saying is that in reading this passage to me

49:10

It did not mean that they could lose their salvation because of the words if possible when I heard how Lindsay Say that the words actually do give the impression that it is possible

49:20

I had to wait wait a minute how Lindsay's saying he might be right. That's why I'm asking the Greek scholar Yeah, I do have a second question.

49:28

Okay, it is also Closely associated with eschatology, but it is not an eschatological question

49:35

You're a Greek scholar and I'm sure you're probably familiar with the book by Kenneth El Gentry before Jerusalem fell

49:43

Yeah, okay and My question has to do with the dating of the

49:49

Book of Revelation at your interpretation Kenneth El Gentry in his book lists scholars such as dr.

49:56

Greg Bonson JB Lightfoot and Many others many big names

50:01

FF Bruce for an example that date the Book of Revelation Prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70

50:10

AD. What is your take on the dating of the Book of Revelation? I don't Really not

50:17

Have gotten into the dating the Book of Revelation. It's interesting. That's the only

50:22

Even consideration I've given to it has been in reference to the fact that Jerry Maddix when he was at Westminster his

50:33

The doctoral dissertation he was working on but he never finished Was on that very subject was on the dating of the

50:40

Book of Revelation and as I recall What was I think he was actually pushing for Hmm what was he pushing for I Can't remember now what his unique take was.

50:54

I thought it might have been really early too. I'm not sure I really that that that is very very closely associated with eschatology and Not something that I claim any expertise on at all

51:07

Most of the the reading that I've done Placed it in about the 92 to 98

51:15

Timeframe because of where John was and I do not know the arguments that Gentry or others use to explain

51:24

Why it is that? John would be in exile on the

51:32

Isle of Patmos two decades or more prior to The time frame that historically it's been understood that he was there

51:41

And also his ministry in Ephesus, which is around that time, too

51:47

So I honestly wouldn't have much to say to that I mean, I'm the only dates that I'm comfortable with are those

51:55

I have not read those books it's not an area that really interests me too much until someone starts getting into maybe some of the

52:03

Attempts of using that somehow support some unique doctrine or something and then maybe I'll be forced to get into it

52:09

But to be honest with you, it's not something I've really spent much time on. Okay? I was just interested in it because you know

52:15

Well, I mean this has to do with eschatology before I began to wonder about it But when

52:21

I was reading Gentry, he opened my eyes to at least a few other Possibilities because he was like I said

52:26

J .B. Lightfoot f -pref Bruce and I believe Phillip Schaaf All these great

52:32

Protestant scholars and even some Roman Catholic scholars have dated it before 70 AD and my

52:38

Preterist uncle the one that believes that Jesus already came back He's using

52:44

Gentry against me to show that you know It was the Buchanan was closed prior to the alleged second coming in 70

52:51

AD and so forth But I appreciate the help with this and the 1924. Okay, man.

52:57

All right. Thank you very much All right. Thanks a lot. God bless. Bye -bye 866 -854 -6663

53:08

I've got to be very careful because there is someone in the chat room who Makes me laugh all the time and ever since I was back on Long Island Every time

53:18

I laugh I start I start coughing like a well my son and I both I think there's been little black helicopters

53:25

Flying over my house. Actually, there has been a white two -engine plane and Ailman or rich for real men.

53:33

Well, which will confirm this there has been a two -engine propped -in driven plane

53:39

Flying over my house for weeks and it just keeps flying over and flying over and flying it goes right over my house

53:45

It goes over his house, too And I don't know if it stopped doing that. I've been getting ready to build a model rocket and shoot it down, but There's someone chat room makes me laugh all the time and When I do so I would immediately start coughing horrendously but this person knows who he is and he just announced he's cleaning out his car and I have often said that Especially that this car has not changed a bit in the six years that I've known him that When we park anywhere and we manage

54:14

I've somehow managed to get out of it I managed to extricate myself from the various and sundry things that are that are there in the vehicle

54:21

I've often comment on the fact that I think that not only would no one ever steal it, but that most car keys would leave a 20 on the windshield

54:32

Just simply so that this homeless person could have someplace else to park. I really think that that would is all what happened.

54:39

But anyways Let's go ahead and take our next caller and At for some strange reason though.

54:47

I don't know why this person would call in There's someone who has some information concerning my trip back east in in September That's a hint hello.

55:00

Oh, yes. Hello mom. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you. How are you? The answer this nation for us a top.

55:07

I'm sorry. Yeah, just information for us a top Well, yes since since you were you know how to press my buttons

55:14

James. You're you're terrible. Yeah, you're awful And well the information

55:20

I have really is um That those of those people who maybe have been look watching our website

55:26

Www .gracereformbaptist .org not trying to give it a plug or anything. Oh, there's a little plug on.

55:32

Yeah, you know Anybody's been watching our website and also that wonderful up -to -date

55:38

Marvelous calendar page that you have You know the calendar, you know can be a thing about the future or about the past Yes But they'll know that we that we we were advertising a conference in September well since that since About a month ago.

55:58

We've kind of been talking about whether or not to have the conference we decided that we're not going to have our conference in September, but but a marvelous world -famous apologist has actually

56:11

Has actually Agreed to to come and still speak to us. Hey, you've got a normal guy for the gun.

56:17

Hey, sorry You've got a normal guy for the car. Hey, yes. Yes. He was very good at normal to agree.

56:22

No You know this this this this one but wonderful man, dr.

56:29

James White is Is coming is coming in September to? The backwards of North Carolina, I don't think so Then I'd have you know, the

56:38

Raleigh is is actually part of the research triangle Which is the Silicon Valley of the southeast?

56:45

Oh, did you say the Bermuda Triangle? No, no, no, no

56:53

I'm sorry. Do I sound like that fellow from England MD guy? We can't count that away says You Doing you're doing very well, actually

57:03

I think you're losing your accent. It's a shame. I think I am. I've been here for nine years, you know, it happens

57:12

But anyway in September At the moment the details are still a little sketchy as I'm sure you're very you're very pleased to know

57:21

We're still kind of getting some ideas together for you know, what we want you to speak about and But it's going to be really good

57:30

It's going to be essentially some there's some teaching time for for us as a church And of course anybody else that's interesting coming coming over to the

57:39

Raleigh, North Carolina to come visit us and to hear some great teaching More than welcome the dates that we have for it are

57:46

September 14th through the 16th At some place and now we're going to get to do theology between sets over at Gold's gym

57:56

There is a Gold's gym nearby and And actually I have a long line of volunteers people who would love to spend time working out with you who are far more able than I am

58:08

But they can come along with you and I get to do the bench press. Oh my goodness. Oh Dear Bench press is supposed to be a spectator sport

58:20

No, no, no. No, it's definitely a participation for and I will tell you I'll spot you.

58:27

Okay I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who would love to to watch me doing bench

58:34

People go for that than to hear me Anyways, no

58:43

Actually, I've done better English action than you have today, but but no seriously, we'll be there in the

58:49

Raleigh area And yes, I know that it is the it is the technological center of the backwoods of Carolina and that's good that means there's telephone there and and running water and all sorts of neat stuff like that and But September 14th to the 16th, and you'll probably be putting a little bit more as far as details times

59:09

Wanting to be addressing post -millennialism Women in ministry and hair cuttings and things like that on the website, right?

59:16

That's right. Yes, absolutely. Yes, right, which was Grace reformed

59:21

Baptist org. That's the one. Oh, there you go. I need to have one of those little

59:28

Thing with Bobby's you pop up that Michael Medved has shameless plug stuff the shameless plug things like that So anyways,

59:38

I do appreciate your calling in putting up with my my mockery of your heritage, which I know

59:43

I know You had nothing to do with Tabbington you're Welsh not not English, but you know, we

59:51

Want to put all this stuff forever in memorialize it on the on the real audio so that people can hear this and we can have all sorts of Fun with it from there.

01:00:01

So anyways, actually we need to take a break because ailments gonna kick me off here in a second But thank you very much for giving us that information and if people want to know more they can get hold of you through The website, right?

01:00:10

Yes, that's right. All righty. Thank you very much. Hey, you're welcome. Thanks for calling We'll be taking our break and then coming back with Is the

01:00:37

Mormon my brother Bethany House Publishers presents James White's book is the Mormon my brother in Television campaigns parachurch events and clergy fellowships all across the

01:00:47

United States Mormons are presenting themselves as mainstream Christians Is it unloving or backward to say they aren't real

01:00:54

Christians in contrast to Christian monotheism the belief in one God Mormonism teaches that God was once a man who lived on another planet and was exalted to the status of God and That Mormon men can also become gods upon death and resurrection

01:01:08

In his book is the Mormon my brother James White demonstrates how this fact alone means

01:01:14

Mormons and Christians are Irreconcilably at odds at faith's most basic level is the

01:01:19

Mormon My brother is now available from Alpha and Omega ministries book ministry. You can order is the

01:01:24

Mormon my brother from our website at www .a o m i n dot org

01:01:30

The conference on Rome over 13 hours examining major doctrines and issues that separate

01:01:35

Roman Catholicism from biblical Christianity Featuring the leading Protestant apologists on Rome in America today.

01:01:41

Listen to dr Erickson's presentation Rome has spoken the matter is debatable when the

01:01:47

Roman Catholic apologists insist that the principle of sola scriptura has Resulted in over 25 ,000 denominations we should in turn insist that the principle of scripture plus an infallible interpreter has resulted in an even greater number of religious cults

01:02:02

Pastor Rob's ends addresses the evangelical romance with Rome. There was not a Roman Catholic Church in the first five centuries

01:02:09

There was to be sure a Catholic Church But this is the universal designation of the body of Christ It is not

01:02:17

Romanism pastor David King the impact of Romans 117 on Martin Luther How is one himself to have that righteousness which

01:02:26

God requires yay? Demands and which is utterly indispensable to salvation

01:02:34

It is by faith and by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ And we lay hold of the

01:02:42

Lord Jesus by faith alone and dr James White examines the veneration of saints and images

01:02:49

Do you think of such a person were brought before Moses having just been caught bowing down?

01:02:55

Before a statue and lighting candles and rocking back and forth in prayer. Do you think

01:03:00

Moses would have accepted the excuse? I wasn't giving Latria Moses. I was only giving topics addressed in this tape series

01:03:07

Is there something about Mary scripture sufficiency the Roman versus Protestant view canonizing the

01:03:13

Apocrypha an assault on scripture Rome? Sacraments an assault on Christ's gospel and purgatory an assault on Christ's perfect atonement

01:03:21

Look for this tape series and many others at a omin org. That's a o m. I n dot o

01:03:27

RG the conference on Rome And welcome back to dividing line my name is

01:03:38

James White and we are live from beautiful Mill Valley, California where the

01:03:44

The wind is blowing and it's probably a whopping 61 degrees outside And it's not humid and it's probably better than almost anyplace else

01:03:56

But I don't get to stay here for forever I get to come home and see the family on Wednesday Lord willing of course getting out of the

01:04:04

San Francisco Airport Especially in nighttime flight. I have a six o 'clock some odd flight

01:04:09

Wednesday night San Francisco is one of the worst airports in the

01:04:15

United States For on time departures so I could be getting home

01:04:20

Really really really really really late and I hope that doesn't happen. What are you going to talk about next week?

01:04:27

I have not the foggiest idea what I'm going to talk about next week to be honest with you in fact when people ask me about About what

01:04:35

I'm going to talk about right before the program. I generally haven't the foggiest idea So I do not know what

01:04:42

I'll be talking about next week Probably about how hot and sticky and miserable it is in Phoenix.

01:04:48

I have not I don't know Maybe I'll be talking about how I've broken every bone in my body speed skating because someone has gotten my daughter into speed skating and is putting together speed skates for me and So I may not even be here next week

01:05:05

I may wrap myself around there's these big huge electric poles next to the

01:05:10

Arizona Canal where I'm going to be Skating and I may not make a turn and right there, and it's it's all over with Rich Pierce would be taking over Warren Smith would become the chief engineer, and it would be really really really interesting to hear the week after I take out a telephone pole or a telephone pole takes me out

01:05:31

Because you'd have the King James only people calling in and saying see see and they would find something

01:05:37

In the King James Bible about skating and telephone poles to demonstrate that that is a the prophecy and Then the

01:05:47

Catholics would be saying that it was it was Mary that got me And it would be the Mormons saying with Moroni who got me and the

01:05:54

Jehovah's Witnesses who would just be chuckling because they loosened the things on my skates and So you know if anything ever happens to me there could be 14 different religious groups claiming that their group did it

01:06:07

So I don't know what's going gonna happen next week I really do not have the foggiest idea how that's going to work

01:06:15

But let me scroll back through what we've got here and see who is I'm assuming that Is this a

01:06:24

Shroff or Ashraf? I don't know well hello.

01:06:32

Hello. Hello. How do you pronounce your name sir? It's Ashraf. Ashraf. How are you doing, sir?

01:06:38

Pretty good. How are you? I'm doing all right Maybe it's the the devils that are going around your head like that last guy.

01:06:44

Oh, yes. Yes, you heard about There might be those First of all, I'd like to thank you for all the work that you do

01:06:51

Especially the debates and everything you keep the Roman Catholic apologists on their toes and not letting them get as money as they probably want to get

01:07:00

But I have a question for you on Romans 9 11, okay and it has to deal with Paul's use of the word work.

01:07:10

I know you can derive what the meaning of works means from 3 Romans 3 but Just out of curiosity.

01:07:18

I was just wondering if there's a If there's a parallel between works and doing anything good or bad

01:07:25

That could be found in Romans 9 11 as As a proof of what

01:07:31

Paul means by the word work Well in that particular context of Romans 9 11, let me

01:07:39

Read it for the folks who may not have a Bible in front of them Of course, I was gonna say if the folks are driving down the road

01:07:44

Then I realized if you're driving down the road listening to a webcast you are technologically superior to me

01:07:51

Romans chapter 9 verse 10 and not only this but there was Rebecca also When she conceived twins by one man our father

01:07:58

Isaac For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad so that God's purpose according to his choice would stand

01:08:06

Not because of works because of him who calls it was said to her the older will serve the younger now in this particular context the phrase not because of works, but because of him who calls is

01:08:21

Modifying the phrase so that God's purpose according to his choice would stand and It's specifically describing

01:08:30

God's choice and it is in a Context context that Contrasts by works with the other phrase

01:08:47

Not because of works but because of him who calls and so the the

01:08:53

Contrasted phrase is ex -ergon by works and then the contrast with the

01:08:58

Greek term Allah is used there It's an adversative the contrast of the opposite to that is

01:09:04

X2 column toss by the one who calls and so in this particular context the meaning of works

01:09:12

Would in essence not be so much works of law or something that is a part of Romans 3 4 and 5 but here it would contrasting the the actions of Man over against the one who called the purpose of the one who calls

01:09:31

And that is God and so that's that's the contrast there and that would give it actually a wider

01:09:40

Perspective or a wider meaning Because it's not modified by to NAMU of law and it is really here in Romans 9 when you think about it

01:09:49

It is going to that that same contrast is brought out in in the phraseology of Versus 15 and following where he says for he says to Moses I will have mercy on whom

01:10:02

I have mercy and I'll have compassion who has compassion So that it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs

01:10:09

But on God who has mercy same contrast their human action, whatever it might be

01:10:16

Contrasted to the divine call and the divine act of mercy. So At least exegetically that would be the the definition of that word works there in 9 -11

01:10:28

Okay, thank you You might have you have a all these books coming out with William Webster and David King and and the guy who justifies

01:10:42

Just curious if there's any updates to those. I know you have on your website, right?

01:10:48

Well, yeah, let me mention that On our website. We've noticed that we're we're pretty well dialed in now on August 23rd as the release date for the

01:11:01

God who justifies and since we're going to be hoping for a drop shipment We we would actually hope to see it before then certainly not after then we hope

01:11:12

And they're very confident about that Of course, you know, we once had a situation where?

01:11:19

One of the publishers had a binder problem, you know two days before is supposed to be released and things like that So I'm really really hoping that will not be the case in that that particular situation but as far as The situation with I just lost connection as far as the situation with the

01:11:43

King and Webster book the last that I had heard was that we're looking probably at about three weeks maybe

01:11:52

That some of the binding is taking place even right now and But it is three volumes and so that's going to take a little bit of work to do that.

01:12:03

I would imagine So it may be coming out right around the same time and as soon as I get back into the chat room here

01:12:09

You can hear the modem of the old -style modem hooking up in the background here I'm gonna ask someone who's in there with Calvary Chapel what the release date is on the

01:12:20

Fenton book on Mary That I've mentioned in the past as well Maybe they'll be able to give me an update and as soon as they do that Then I'll be able to pass that information along to you.

01:12:30

Okay? Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. God bless eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three and I have lost my

01:12:46

The internet for the moment and should get it back here in a second But let's go ahead with with our next caller

01:12:54

I don't have a name in front of me right now, but I'll get it back up in a second So who who am

01:13:00

I talking with now? Hello The other caller and I don't

01:13:12

Don't hear anything so I'm going to assume that we lost the other caller for the moment and Actually, I've gotten back into into the channel now

01:13:27

Hello Hello, there is this this is Randy and Denver. Hi Randy.

01:13:32

How you doing? Doing great Hey, I it's kind of weird because it feels like I know you I have in the last year I've basically listened to every dividing line and every debate

01:13:39

I'm really sorry for you. I You're probably wondering if I have a life But I've got a great job where they actually allow me to wear the headphones at work

01:13:50

And so I get to download the messages compress them take them in and listen to them at work So it's really well maybe so you have a good internet connection and I'd oh, so you're taping it at home and bring him in Right.

01:14:00

I just got 56 K dial -up nothing fancy But I compress them with WMA and take him in on zip disk and listen to listen to him at work

01:14:09

Wow works out well like a little bit of James White a little bit of John Piper, you know

01:14:14

Ooh little Ravi Zacharias. So and some good company there. Yeah, I'm gonna go see

01:14:19

Hank Hanegraaff tonight He's oh, really? He's here in town on the prayer of Jesus. So I'm guessing it's going to be a little take off on prayer

01:14:27

J Bez That might be another topic for you for next week if you're looking oh, yeah yeah,

01:14:33

I need to I picked the book up while I was on Long Island and Actually someone in our in our channel is going to has promised anyways to write a

01:14:47

An article a pastor back east has promised to write an article on the subject

01:14:52

I haven't gotten anything yet, but we'll you know, we're patient folks And of course,

01:14:58

I haven't even gotten around to reading all of it I've read sections of I need to read all the way through to get a a good

01:15:04

Feel for exactly what's going on. I've been on the website and the website bothers me.

01:15:09

But anyway, that's not that's not what you called Is it? No, that's not the primary thing. I would did want to talk about your book some okay.

01:15:16

I actually Interesting story maybe some other time. I'll call and tell you how I ended up with an autographed copy of chosen but free

01:15:25

More importantly Potter's freedom really really made an impact and and at the ripe old age of 40

01:15:31

I guess I I kind of made the the full -blown switch over to the reform position. Thanks to Potter's freedom

01:15:37

Oh, so thanks for all sorts of problems for you. Oh, yeah Family gathering last week was real interesting.

01:15:44

I bet it was No, it's it's been good and it certainly opened up some topics for discussion and I've got a few other people that I'm Encouraging to listen to some of your stuff and read some of it

01:15:57

Just want to let you know that there's there's someone out here in Denver that's listening to all your stuff reading your books

01:16:02

Enjoying that I did have one last idea for you. I wish I had known that. I'm not sure if you're aware.

01:16:08

I was Teaching in Denver each Monday in February in March and I would fly in in the morning teach from Noon till 434

01:16:24

Golden Gate teaching the same class and I'm teaching here on the main campus this week I Could sometimes hear my own voice on the they have a this

01:16:35

Golden Gate have a site here in Denver. Yes Uh -huh. Yeah, I wasn't aware of that.

01:16:40

Yeah, they do and then I normally unfortunately that the plane didn't leave to like Almost 9 o 'clock at night and so I would

01:16:48

I had a number of hours I sat around the Denver Airport and also Had long quiet dinners at the the

01:16:56

Chevy's over on I forget what it was the 205 or the 250

01:17:01

I forget what it was anyways, but would have been nice to know we could have munched on some chips and salsa

01:17:08

Well, you're gonna be doing some more teaching for them in the future we can hook up there I actually do a little bit of apologetic speaking myself and Love to love to get together sometime, but I did want to mention one idea and that is on the guy who justifies

01:17:23

I'm one of those who's anxiously been awaiting and disappointed each time it gets pushed back

01:17:28

All right, but you know what you got to do is a little extra fundraiser. Just throw in Another $5 on the credit card or something and then do a personal signing of them that way

01:17:38

I could match up my chosen But free from Norm Geisler with Something from you. It'll only seem appropriate

01:17:45

Well, you know a lot of folks actually contact us especially the folks in the chat room who put up with me there and they ask that I try to find these things and and It's hard on rich to to get the orders to me to do that.

01:18:00

I would love to do that And I will obviously try when folks if we know who the folks are who who have ordered them

01:18:08

It's really tough sometimes when you only know people by their nicks or their email addresses to put names and and people together

01:18:15

But it would I would find it personally extremely difficult to actually

01:18:22

Charge folks for a signature. I I personally when people bring a book to me for me to sign it

01:18:29

Go along the lines of now you realize once I've signed this you won't be able to take it back to the bookstore and get

01:18:34

Your money back. That's sort of how I view my signature is having very little on the way of worth it goes

01:18:41

So but if if you can drop us a line and let rich know Especially of the folks who have been so patient in in waiting for the

01:18:51

God who justifies I suppose it would be worth my while to actually sit down with them and Sign the folks who do just simply to thank them for For having pre -ordered the book and been patient.

01:19:04

I think that's probably something we should probably try to Arrange to arrange to do anyways.

01:19:09

Well, what you should have is a signed copy of the Potter's freedom That's a little more appropriate. I'll tell you what, maybe

01:19:15

I could order one of those and then I could give my current one away Yeah, there you go That's how it works.

01:19:20

Well, next time I call in I'll tell you about the King James only school I escaped from it tried to give me

01:19:26

Gail's they actually gave me Gail's book and Said it was one of the greatest books written since the Did you hear the the

01:19:36

Dividing line that we did last summer where I played the segment of her explaining the thinking of the

01:19:41

Titanic Yeah, but see you weren't listening. I said I've listened to every one and I know I heard you say that but I Everyone Unbelievable.

01:19:49

Absolutely. Unbelievable. Well, yeah, I'm not sure that anyone has ever listened to all of them except for me and rich So you may be in in whole new territory.

01:19:58

There is actually haven't done that. All right Well, I'll drop you an email and if you're back teaching it Can hook up here in Denver sometime.

01:20:06

I'd be glad to do that. Alrighty, sir. Thanks for calling. Thank you That's A fun sound dr.

01:20:27

White seems to have left the building momentarily as we're sitting in here pounding on Keys on the phones right and left and I seem to have accidentally disconnected him.

01:20:38

Well, I Anticipate we will be hearing from dr. White any moment and bringing him right back on the line

01:20:48

Again, this is Rich Pearson there. He is now Dr. White is is that you?

01:20:54

Is that you dr. White? That's me Oh, well, we seem to have had a little bit of a disconnect And so I'm going to let you take the show over right now because we are live here you are

01:21:06

That's a good way to get you right on the air, isn't it? You know, I all of a sudden it got real quiet and I looked at my screen and the the amount of time

01:21:14

I had been connected had Stopped and that that generally means I'm not there anymore. So I only have a few minutes left

01:21:21

Anyways, I don't know if we have any callers online. I don't believe that we do What I was saying none.

01:21:27

Okay, what I was saying was that the fascinating little clip from Gail Ripplinger is somewhere on See you later sometime.

01:21:35

Bye. Bye was Somewhere on the computer that is currently not working

01:21:41

But it's I'm gonna have to replay it someday because in fact every little once a while I have to play it for myself Just simply so that I can be reminded of why

01:21:50

I have spent the time that I have warning people that Gail Ripplinger is Is is really way out there in left field someplace.

01:22:00

It is it is amazing the expansive Contact she has had with people just just boggles my mind.

01:22:08

I think that says a lot about The the church today and and people who would follow that particular perspective

01:22:16

Anyways, I am up here in San Francisco Teaching a class wherein so far.

01:22:22

We have watched the debate with Hamza Abdul Malik on On the deity of Christ.

01:22:28

We have listened to the debate between Greg Bonson and Gordon Stein on the existence of God we contrasted that with a section anyways of the debate between William Lane Craig and Frank Zindler on the existence of God Fascinating to listen to those two debates and compare and contrast them because in the one

01:22:48

Bonson's perspective is God exists certainly and you must accept his existence or live in consistently with yourself and be irrational whereas the

01:23:00

William Lane Craig's perspective was the majority the preponderance of evidence points to The greater probability of the existence of the

01:23:07

Christian God and those are not the same statements and We've listened to those we watched most of the debate between myself and Mitchell Pacwa on solo scriptura and then we watched the entirety of the debate between myself and Jerry Matta ticks on the

01:23:25

Marian dogmas and Then there's been lecture, of course from Romans chapter 1. I stopped the debate

01:23:33

With Jerry Matta ticks during the section on the perpetual virginity of Mary to point out what

01:23:38

I pointed out on this program and That is that? At one point.

01:23:44

Mr. Matta ticks says no Adel Faust does not have to mean uterine sibling and I stopped the tape at that point and reminded folks of what we have seen in Scott Hahn's new book

01:23:56

Hail Holy Queen of the Mother of God in the Word of God where he makes the assertion that in point of fact

01:24:05

Adel Faust means from the same womb he just Neglects to mention that that's what's used of Jesus and brothers

01:24:13

Adel Faust and Adolf a and then just continued on from there It would be really neat and it would just take forever and it's interesting most

01:24:22

Protestant apologists. I know have real life and They're involved in ministry and church and other subjects a lot of Catholic apologists.

01:24:31

I encounter especially internet apologists Don't seem to have anything else to do in life than write and write and write but it would be really interesting to sit down and Go and get the material from Steve Ray from Dave Armstrong Patrick Madrid Carl Keating James Aiken Scott Hahn Jerry Mattafix and put together

01:24:56

Something similar to what Abelard did back in church history Where he did?

01:25:02

The con the seeking all is the title of the book that he wrote yes And no, and it was a a book that provided contradictions from the early church fathers

01:25:13

And it would really be interesting. It wouldn't be difficult to do just take time to sit down with a modern

01:25:21

Roman Catholic apologist and Put them together where they're contradicting each other because we all know they do it on a regular basis

01:25:29

And it would be really interesting to put together No webpage or if you could get hold of you know someone sat around with With a videotape recorder and videotaped

01:25:40

EWTN or something like that all day You could you could obviously put together a video version of it an audio version of it so on so forth

01:25:48

Just to demonstrate the number of contradictions that are that are there from this wonderfully unified

01:25:54

Roman Catholic apologetics Perspective, but that is neither here nor there and certainly people could do the same thing with Protestants But at least we explain why that is

01:26:05

It's sort of hard to understand why if Rome's magisterium is so clear and so compelling and they're all saying the same thing

01:26:12

Why they contradict each other? I'm not sure exactly how that works well Anyways, it's been good to be with you from San Francisco this weekend.

01:26:20

I appreciate the hard work put in there at the Sir calling it studios.

01:26:26

This is a little bit of an exaggeration at the electronics desk by by Hirsch Pierce and Warren Smith and Actually, I I'm going to be signing off here and and going over to gold

01:26:42

Jim Warren I just want you to know that and it's it's gonna be a lot of fun and Yes.

01:26:49

Yes here the applause. Yes heading over to gold Jim to work out here and I will keep you in mind

01:26:56

Warren as I'm working on calves. But anyway we'll be back in Phoenix next week and hopefully with a live computer and Taking your phone calls and addressing fascinating issues of Christian apologetics

01:27:10

All of you in Phoenix who are dying of the heat you enjoy it Because it's only 61 degrees here

01:27:16

But we'll be back on Wednesday looking forward to that heat and looking forward to talking to all of you next week