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Father in heaven, we thank you this morning For all that you are all that you've blessed us with All that you've supplied us with in Jesus Christ for forgiveness full and free for the fact that all of our sins Nailed to the cross that we bear them no more father.
You demonstrated that by raising your son from the grave on the third day Father we pray by the power of your spirit that we would be Encouraged strengthened and Focused even as we talked about the Trinity this morning discuss these Rich rich treasures that you have presented to us through your scriptures as Interpreted by the gifts that you have provided To the church and through the church through the many centuries pray that you would allow us to Grapple with these issues and understand them better in Jesus name.
Amen. Okay. Anybody doesn't have a quiz quiz chapter 5 5 quiz quiz 5. I don't think I've ever asked Patty face-to-face why we keep getting these wonderful quality pages, but. Yeah, I mean it's like the default the default is for excellent paper only one, okay, sorry, that's right.
Steve goes down with a concussion. Okay. Okay. And we're on question number five just to catch up for those Who sadly weren't here last week number one is false. Number two is false. Number three is true.
Number four is true. And if you're picking up a pattern false false true true forget it because that's not gonna work number five. True or false. Jesus himself spoke of his pre-incarnate glory. Jesus himself spoke of his pre-incarnate glory.
It is true. Where would we find that John high priestly prayer, which is? John late John like after after he died after John died 17 high priestly prayer. John 17. This is Barrett by the end of John's gospel.
See that's that's why you know, you know, it was late John Jesus prays to his father knowing he will soon be raised up on the cross. This is John 17 verses 4 and 5 I glorified you on earth having accomplished the work that you gave me to do and Now father glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Now I read that and I think to myself. What I mean are there questions that arise to your mind when you when you read that passage now in light of what we've been learning over the last Several months or you know year and a half or whatever it is.
Is anything you know when you read that now, do you think any differently about John 17? Let me frame it a different way since the coffee hasn't fully kicked in. When you read that do you think to yourself, okay?
When Jesus came to earth did he Stop being glorified. It says here. He was he says He had glory before he came to earth. Right and he wants that glory again. Does that mean he stopped being glorious? What happened?
Okay. Good. So let's just pause there for a second. Hold that thought. The flesh that he put on veiled his glory. We would see that on the Mount of Transfiguration right? We're okay. So go ahead. So I you know, did it go away and you know, or did he stop being glorified or you know?
I mean there are all kinds of things that we could say which would be wrong, you know, like he Laid aside his glory as if you know went into the closet. Right. Did the Trinity part of the Trinity stop being glorious for you know, the time that he was on earth?
The answer is no it was just hidden from sight. So he says, you know, I've done everything that I'm supposed to do here. Okay, I'm kind of done with this whole veiling thing can we just you know get on with it here and and you know, this is and it's kind of From a human perspective knowing that he was in Gethsemane praying.
You know as a man, I don't want this but I'm going to do it. Right if there's any other way father, please take it. But here in John 17, it's like okay. You know, we're almost there. Let's just get this done, right?
I I want to get back to the full Fullness of exercising all my you know, my deity all the time kind of thing. I mean that is it. Yeah, he's deserving of glory because he'd accomplished a mission, but it is kind of a amazing concept, right?
Did Jesus add to his glory by completing the mission the work that the father gave him? We tend to think it's like You know. That the father or the son is going to stand before the father and he's going to hear Well done my good and faithful servant, which is true, right and then that there's going to be some kind of promotion but.
Yeah, but but the reality is what did the father say at baptism right at the very beginning of his ministry? This is my beloved son in whom I am. Well, please he was well pleased with him that he's always well pleased with him.
Jonathan. Yes, right. But but that's kind of the the idea that we have, you know now that the mission is done Jesus is good and faithful and true and righteous. No, he was always good and faithful and true and righteous.
Yeah, Jonathan and and that's you know I think that is kind of the key or very much the key is more of the glorious nature of God. You know revealed to us through the personal work of Jesus Christ and the answer is yes, so good.
That's a bonus true or false question. Number six. True or false the father is to be honored more than the son. I mean that should be like shooting fish in a barrel. Which I don't know why we use that have you ever done that.
I I Confess I've never even really thought about gee, that'd be fun. Let's go shoot some fish in a barrel ever. I mean who put the fish in the grill in the first place. The father is to be honored more than the son, what do you say?
False. That's obviously false and but you could see even why this would be an issue because people think. Why do you suppose it would be an issue. Let's put it that way let's think through this a little bit.
Why would anybody say that the father should be honored more than the son? Okay, it's what we're used to even Jesus said. Yeah. We're back at EFS 9, but there's a there's another twist to it eternal function.
Functional subordination where the Sun eternally is second in command. But there's something else to this too. If we just think about it this way if we go back to the ancient world where some people some people claiming to be Christians.
And I've I've spoken about this in the past these Gnostics in fact there are people today who say the Gnostics were also Christians. No, they weren't and They weren't because they said in addition to you know this idea Gnostic means is from the Greek word Gnosis.
Which means higher knowledge secret knowledge. They said that they knew things that other people didn't. But the key to Gnosticism in terms of it being a heresy is they said the created world is Inherently evil not because of the fall, but it's just inherently evil.
Physical world is bad, right? So Jesus didn't actually have a body he only appeared to have a body and Therefore the father should be honored more than the son because the son had a Physical nature and therefore was less than the the father the son had a physical nature.
So that would be one reason let me read what Barrett says if the father Existing before the ages is always in glory and the pre-temporal son is His glory and if in like manner the Spirit of Christ is the son's glory the Spirit of Christ being the Holy Spirit Always to be contemplated along with the father and the son then there can be no Quote before in what is timeless.
Nor can one person be more honorable in What is all? Essentially honorable says Gregory of Nysa so the idea is can one be higher more honorable more Highly to be thought of than all the rest of the Trinity and the answer is no Thoughts questions concerns heresies.
I'm always on the lookout for more heresies. You know, so it's Maybe a good one will pop up. You never know Number seven true or false a good heresy. Hmm true or false number seven. Paul says both the father and the son created.
Both the father and the son created seeing some nods. Of course, some of them were kind of diagonal nods. I don't know what that means. It's a diagonal nod. The answer is true Barrett just after Paul says an idol has no real existence.
Right, that's a lot of times just mini insight here a lot of times that's why we will see scripture referred to God as the living God or You know the the God who is that kind of thing because all the other so-called gods are false gods they have no real existence and That there is no God but one.
He then says Paul does for although there are many so-called gods in heaven or on earth as Indeed there are many gods and many Lords yet for us there is one God the Father from whom all things and for whom we exist and one Lord Jesus Christ.
Through whom are all things and through whom we exist. We just said He just said that basically the same thing of the Father as he does of the Son. Barrett goes on to say there's no question. Paul has the Shema in view.
What is the Shema. Anybody know the address of the Shema Deuteronomy? What. Six getting closer. Six four, okay. So close. He says he quotes from Deuteronomy 4 35 39 8. But who in the Old Testament ever included another name another person in the Shema.
To do so would have been blasphemy. But Paul does in the same breath he quotes from the Shema he names Jesus Christ. There's only one God and He exists in the persons of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Yeah, this is fun number eight true or false one could reasonably conclude that Paul was a binatarian. I Had to work so hard on that word. So, you know, I hope somebody will fall for this. Yeah, it's false.
Oh. Somebody did fall for it. Thank you. So Barrett says but wait, where's the Spirit. In first Corinthians 8 the Spirit is not referenced. But Paul is no binatarian, so he's not. Just means two gods instead of three.
He's Trinitarian in His second letter to the Corinthians Paul we use the same lordship language except this time. He applies it not only to the Son, but the Spirit. Let's listen to 2nd Corinthians 3 verses 17 and 18.
Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face Beholding the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image the image of whom the image of Christ from one degree of glory to another.
For this comes from the Lord who is spirit. So who's transforming us into the image of Christ? That's right. It's your own works. Remember that You're being made in the image of Christ by your own works.
No, it's the Holy Spirit. It's Christine said The Spirit of the Lord and the Spirit has unveiled our faces. So that we are the recipients of the new covenants blessings. But notice the Spirit can do can only do so because he is the Lord himself as the Lord.
The Spirit of God Not only awakens us to new life opening up our blind eyes. But transforms us even sanctifies us so that we have the mind of Christ. And he suggests there that we consult 1st Corinthians 2 10 to 16.
What's the subject of 1st Corinthians? 2 10 to 16 you remember any of those verses there? Let's read them since we don't recall them. 1st Corinthians 2 verses 10 to 16. Once we start reading it, I know some Lights will go off because these are these are very familiar verses, especially if you've ever sat through a Fundamentals of the faith class a few people here have actually taken that from me.
Some of them have taken it 10 12 15 times. I don't even know how many times. Sorry inside joke, I'll be in trouble when I get home. All right, first Corinthians 2 Verses 10 to 16. These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit for the Spirit searches everything even the depths of God.
For who knows a person's thought except the spirit of that person which is in him. So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God that we might understand the things freely given to us or freely given us by God and We impart this in words not taught by human wisdom, but taught by the Spirit.
Interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. And then verse 14 the one that is just killer the natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and He is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
So who's the natural person an unsaved person, right. Does not accept the things of the Spirit of God spiritual things because he's not able to grasp them. Because he doesn't have the Holy Spirit. Verse 15 the spiritual person judges all things.
But is himself to be judged by no one. For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him. But we have the mind of Christ. We have the mind of Christ because we have the Spirit of Christ.
We have the Spirit of God. I mean, it's so easy to get frustrated when you're talking to an unbeliever. And what you have to do is remind yourself of one thing. You're speaking Spanish to a person, you know who speaks.
I Don't know Japanese. I mean it it just doesn't make any sense to them. They don't get it because the Spirit hasn't illumined them. So does that mean then we shouldn't try to talk to them about spiritual things or we shouldn't share the gospel with them?
Or we shouldn't give them Scripture. No, it just means that we shouldn't be shocked if they don't get it because unless the Holy Spirit's working in them, they won't. Thoughts or questions concerns. Okay, number nine true or false because we have been adopted by God.
He sends his spirit to us. Okay, true. Barrett Paul writes of the Galatians concerning their adoptions children of God. We were enslaved but When the fullness of time had come God sent forth his son so that we might receive adoption as sons and Because you are sons God has sent the spirit of his son into our hearts crying Abba Father.
I'm not even going there but This is this is what happens we're adopted. God adopts us into his family and then grants us his Holy Spirit. We have the presence of his spirit. Okay, number ten. True or false in Paul's writing.
We often have to guess which person the Trinity is in operation. It's a mystery. That's false. Come on. He's pretty he's pretty clear. But you know even in in and I guess maybe I I don't know the mind of the question writer here.
Well, actually I do because it was my spirit. The idea behind this is it it may not always be perfectly clear who's doing what but even even if it isn't. Does it really matter? Because emphasis is placed on different persons of the Trinity doing things in Scripture.
But we said this before if one person of the Trinity is doing something are the other two just kind of observers. No, they all everything they do they do together. Yeah. Yes. Same will I. I think you know, the question was, you know, is it so that we get a better idea of I?
Well, I'll just put it this way I think it's so that we get a better understanding of the nature of the Trinity. You know that in different places different persons of the Trinity are emphasized. You know, and we we've given this example before, you know, who raised Jesus from the dead and you all know this.
That's why I'm using it because it's an easy example who raised Jesus from the dead. Okay God. Mr. Mr. Zook is being so helpful. That is good. That is correct. He's a hundred percent correct the father raised Jesus from the dead.
Jesus raised Jesus from the dead and the Spirit Raised Jesus from the dead. So all three persons present and you know who saved somebody who draws somebody to Christ. Jesus says I will draw all men to myself.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And who is it who convicts of sin is the Spirit? So who who is it who ultimately saved somebody? Yes all three persons of the Trinity so.
Okay, Garrett writes whether Paul is referring to the gospel adoption or the unity of the church. He assumes in each of these. The triunity of the Father Son and Holy Spirit in Paul's mind. There is but one God one Lord and his one name is Father Son and Holy Spirit.
Paul is merely mimicking Christ before him who commissioned his disciples by commanding them to baptize them to baptize in the name singular of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28 19 as the church has confessed down through the ages each person is a subsistence of the one divine essence.
How much of the subsistence. How much of the essence? How much is each person of the Trinity a subsistence of the divine essence, you know? How much of the divine essence do they have all of it? It's just how does that work?
Trinity, you know, it's kind of Trinity and As the church has confessed down through the ages Each person is a subsistence of the one divine essence Father Son and Spirit holding the one essence in common Consubstantial of the same substance with one another.
Number 11 true or false because God has no body. He is simple. I don't know man. This is like okay, first the recap divining simplicity and What was that? His Attributes are his essence and his essence is or are his attributes, right?
I mean You you can't divide him up and make him one thing or another, you know, well God is love. Yes. And that's not all God is. But he is Simple. Okay. Because God has no body. He is simple. Let's read what Barrett says as Hillary and can you trust a man named Hillary?
Yes, because the man who Climbed Mount Everest was named Hillary as Hillary of Poitiers. I Don't know how you say that porters Says it is because God has no body bodies being divisible by parts as we know from experience.
That he is simple essence. No parts, but in all embrace embracing whole. Nothing quickened, but everything living now the point was brought up that Jesus has a body so does that kind of You know muddle things up here.
Well, it makes things it makes things, you know difficult. But again, I would refer to this fantastic handout that we had several many weeks ago the double Consubstantiality Handout which you know with its in-depth the diagram and if you haven't seen this diagram, I'll just do it in the air.
You know that the triangle representing the triune God and then the rectangle Representing the man Jesus Christ. So if we just think okay because God has no body. Well, does God have a body? No. Does God have a body I?
I Could foresee, you know Research paper, you know in your in your future. Let's just let's just think about this in his humanity is Christ Simple that kind of if he's truly human and is he truly human?
Yes, I mean I can hear RC now, you know with his nicotine stained voice 100 God. You know. Truly God truly man. That's the that's the historical confessional language. He's truly God and truly man. Well in his humanity, is he simple?
No in his divinity. Yes. So, okay thoughts questions concerns research papers to be assigned foot noted. Okay. No less than ten Sources, that's true. 11 is true never 12. True or false monotheism means that God is a simple person who rules the world.
Thank you. True or false monotheism means that God is a simple person who rules the world. That's false. Let me quote Barrett monotheism does not mean that God is a single person who rules the world. Thank you.
Okay. Well All right, that was simple number 13 sure or false. True or false Generation is something that happens to the Sun and that is so hard. I heard a false and False by the way is I want to say true, but I'll just say correct.
False is correct. Why? See that's that's the key right you want to kind of underline that word happens because that's where Things get sort of messed up. Why does that mess things up? You're on the right track there with the word spontaneous.
Yeah, that's it. I mean happens is that whole concept of time? Let's let's listen to Barrett here. He says How can simplicity apply to the persons of the Trinity or to the persons if the father acts to beget his son.
Doesn't eternal generation assume the Trinity acts and becomes something. He is otherwise not. Then he answers No. The reason why the persons are not agents with their own wills or the reason is. And they're not persons with their own wills.
Generation is not something that happens to the Sun rather to be the Sun just is to be begotten and Again this is where you know your mind just starts to bend and why does it start to bend? Because we don't understand what it is to be outside of time.
It is just beyond our Ken it's beyond our limitation it's beyond our Capacity to to fully grapple because we think okay. We have a son that son is formed in the womb, and then he's born. So we understand everything in a linear way, and you know here we have just eternal generation.
The Sun is eternally generated, and why is that important again just for by way of review? Why is it important that we say he's eternally generated and not just that he's generated? Okay, if he's generated.
There will be a point in time where something changed and that something would be that the Sun came into being and That is just again. That's where we just kind of go. You know I need to get off this ride I.
Because it's just it's just not something we can we can grasp because we think everything has a beginning point and an ending point and. Okay, let's look at it. This way. Let's think about it. This way, and then I'll get to your question here in a sec if we say that God has a beginning point or that Jesus has a beginning point then.
What else might we conclude that he's not eternal? You know it's like what goes up comes down that which has a beginning has an end. God is without beginning, and he's without end. Yeah, eternity is a long time.
I mean, that's what I used to say to my kids, right? They say dad you're never gonna. Let us do X and I'd go kids never is a very long time see you always had. Let me excuse you. Interrupt for just a moment.
Sorry. When you say what would I say that's not really a good model so go ahead and finish your question. How can you believe something you can't understand or don't understand? How can you believe something you can't understand so in other words and this gets back to the first Corinthians 214 question.
Essentially you know how how can somebody be expected to believe that which they don't have the capacity to understand. Is that what you're asking. Yes. Okay, I mean if I I'm not sure what you're asking me are you just asked me generally you know how are we supposed to believe in the Trinity when we can't fully understand the Trinity or.
Well I right, I think I think we can understand the concept. Right because the the actual I mean we can say to ourselves. Okay, there was never a time when the Sun wasn't there was never a time that the Spirit wasn't.
Now how exactly does that work? I don't know. Right because again. I'm a creature of time I think in linear terms and you know even at my best if I try to think In a nonlinear, you know if I try to apply.
I don't know some kind of wacky calculus or Imaginary numbers or yeah quantum theory or whatever. I'm trying to use by the way. I don't even know what quantum theory means. But Whatever I try to do I'm not going to be able to grapple with it because or I you know fully Understand I can grapple with it.
I can try to wrestle with it, but I'm not going to get it. I have to understand it or I have to just accept it because the Bible says it because it is true and because the the fact that I can't I Can't explain it beyond the words, and I can't really understand how there could be an eternity of three persons.
That's on my limitations that has nothing to do with the truth of it or not so. Okay. Let's see. Okay, okay as Anselm says You are so simple That there cannot be born of you any other than what you are.
Nor can there proceed from your supreme simplicity? What is other than that from which it proceeds? Thus whatever is singly that the whole Trinity is together father son and Holy Spirit. So what Anselm just said so well, it's something that I really don't get.
He's saying it. He's saying in a different way but you know again, I can I can explain the words, but it can I fully grasp it in my mind no because He's divine, and I'm a creature so number 14. True or false God is one in the same way.
He is three. God is one in the same way. He is three. I feel like this enters like some kind of Feng Shui or something. I don't really know it is false very good excellent. Simplicity and Trinity are only a contradiction if God is one in the same way that he is three so he can't be and He says but as we've just seen that's not the case when we say that God is one.
We are referring to his essence or being or nature. Those three words mean the same thing. When we refer to God as three, however, we are referring to three persons specifically the way the simple simple essence subsists or Exists in each person in a special manner so he is One and he is three, but he's not one in the same way that he's three.
Number 15. God the Father and God the Son are more God. Listen, let me read that again. God the Father and God the Son in other words. I mean together. Are more God than one of them separately kind of sounds true though, right.
One plus one equals. Don't don't say one that's that's new math. Oh, but it's that's false. Yeah, God the Father and God the Son are not more so there you go. Father and Son together are not more being than father alone or son alone, but those three subs substances or Persons together if that is what they must be called are equal to each other singly.
Which the sensual man does not perceive that's first Corinthians 240. The essential man. Carnal man worldly man unsaved man. 1st Corinthians 214. Number 16 true or false each member of the Trinity wholly possesses the divine essence.
You guys are getting pretty good at this. Each member of the Trinity wholly possesses the divine essence is true. God's one essence is indivisible. It has no parts. The divine essence does not break into three parts to form three persons and see that's I I think that's one of our Our stumbling blocks.
We want it to be like that. So it makes it easier for us to understand introducing such a separation results in a God compounded of Parts, so he's not simple. Rather the three persons are one in essence each a subsistence of the identical Self same essence.
Wholly possessing that one essence not merely a portion of it. And when you start thinking deeply about that you go, okay, each person has the whole of the divine essence. It's pretty easy to see how people could go from that to what heresy.
If I think the father has the whole of the divine essence. The son has the whole of the divine essence. The spirit has the whole of the divine essence then what am I like on the precipice of falling into?
Modalism. I Mean it's not hard to see. Yeah, and that's wrong Patrick. Happy st. Patrick's Day belittling. He says although we distinguish the persons from the essence. We dare not think of the the essence is some fourth thing that the persons divvy up to hold it in common.
I like that. It's good to think of it that way. They don't divvy it up. Number 17 and we'll close on this one. To her faults the Sun and the Spirit being derivative are nevertheless truly God. Derivative is a scary word unless you're dealing with what?
Calcos. I think so. What's what's that I? Don't think I could do any derivatives these days. Okay. That's false says Aquinas. The whole fullness of divine nature is present in each of the persons. Even when we say that the Sun for example is God from God in Nicaea.
We do not mean that he is God from God as a whole from the parts or as part from the whole. Or as part from parts. No, if there is God from God The whole God is from the whole God and again there. We go.
It's just like okay the whole God from the whole God well, how can you still have a whole God because? God. God has no parts simplicity. Okay, thoughts questions concerns. Any last-minute modalistic heresies you want to get out of you just out of your system?
Well pastor if I have a donut, and I break it into the stop just. Well that's partialism. Patrick, okay, all right. Well, let's go ahead and Close here after I and then I'll try to figure that out our great God.
As we read study wrestled with these issues. Father it it ought to remind us again and again of how. Well the the world tells us. That we are essentially the center of all creation that we're the center of the universe.
That we are the most important thing there is. The reality is we're so insignificant. You are so transcendent and so noble yes. But but we can't really fully grasp you this father drives us to worship and to recognize that the amazing truth is.
That while we are not the center of the universe. You and the person of Jesus Christ condescended. To take on our sins to take on human flesh to live the life that we'd never lived. Ought to have lived should live and don't.
And then he went to the cross innocent perfect as. The perfect sacrifice for our sins that we might be forgiven of our sins. Then you raised him up on the third day and Lord. We praise you for that. And we want to honor you and all that we do and say and think and help us to think rightly about you in Jesus name we pray amen.