Call to the Ministry (Part 1)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

Pastor Steve Cooley is with me here today. Welcome, Steve. Greetings and salutations. Today, Steve, we're gonna talk a little bit about women in combat.

Well, that'll be a dramatic twist. I wasn't really expecting that. Sometime we should talk about rolls, shouldn't we?

Not jelly rolls. Cinnamon rolls. Cinnamon rolls, no. What are those famous cinnamon rolls?

Cinnabons. Yeah. Yeah, the Cinnabon diet. One in the morning, one at lunch, and then a sensible dinner, and just shed those pounds.

But men and women are different, and for that, I'm glad. Yes, I am too. But today, we're gonna talk about -

I don't know what that has to do with Cinnabon, but I digress. Well, I'm trying to think of a smart

Alec response, but I can't think of one. If you'd like to write us at info at nocompromiseradio .com,

you can. We'd love that. And if you'd like to listen to some old podcasts, those are available online too.

Today, Steve, why don't we talk about ministry and the call to ministry? What do I mean by the call to ministry?

See, I was gonna say something smart, Alec. Yeah, go ahead. You know what? We got one email, or I should've forwarded you the email, and she said,

I like it when you laugh. And when you guys laugh, it makes me feel good. So as you know, we should be able to turn on the radio sometimes.

And we just were following Jay Sekulow, and so there's probably all kinds of Ben Laden stuff now, and probably tense moments and everything like that.

And then R .C. Sproul's on after us, and so now we might as well be the comedy relief team. Okay, fine. Well, the call to ministry would be if somebody calls your home, and you answer the phone, and they say,

Pastor, that's when you know you're called to ministry. It's the wrong number. That's right. Do you know what? I spent $30 ,000.

That's a solid no. I spent $30 ,000 on seminary just because somebody called me Pastor. And it wasn't really the real call?

Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sometimes you just, you never know. No, well, there's a subjective call to ministry, which would be an inward,

I guess, drawing a subjective idea, you know, your own sense that you are called into ministry.

And by the way, if you are a woman today listening, and you have that subjective call, you believe that you're called to the ministry, you're wrong.

Yeah, so let's stop there for a second. Let's just rule out, first of all, if you think you wanna be in full -time ministry, that is pastoral ministry, preaching ministry, being an elder of a local church, why are women ruled out?

That seems, Steve, you're so pugnacious, you're so domineering, you're so patriarchal.

Thank you. Well, I'd prefer to use terms like no compromising.

And, you know, biblical, I mean, the bottom line is in 1 Timothy 2, when

Paul writes about women in ministry, he says this in verse 11, let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

Verse 12, I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, rather she is to remain quiet.

For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Yes, but Steve, you don't understand, Biolagos and Tim Keller, they say that Genesis 1 is poetry, and, you know, maybe we don't really have a real

Adam, therefore we don't really have a real Eve. And so this is a trajectory that would allow us to have free reign in the local church.

Well, if Genesis 1 is poetry, I'd like to know when the poem stops and when the history starts.

Who was that lady that just died that she wrote that song, Poetry Man? Oh. Is it Poetry Man?

You're gonna make me feel all right. Is it Joni Mitchell? No, I think it's Phoebe Snow. Phoebe Snow, you're right.

Phoebe Snow, yeah, that's right. Wasn't Phoebe an apostle? All I remember about Phoebe Snow, she did a song with Paul Simon, and it was like way back in the early days.

I'm gonna start calling the Genesis 1 poetry view, it's the Phoebe Snow view.

I like that. Okay, that's good. You're the poetry man. You made me feel all right. So obviously, if you've listened to our show long enough, we like ladies, we love ladies.

I have a wife, Steve has a wife. I have a wife too. I have three daughters, you have? I have two daughters. And you have granddaughters too.

Yeah. I think you have two granddaughters, one in the womb? Yeah, one who will be here in about a month.

Probably by the time this show airs. Steve, congratulations. Thank you so much. She's beautiful, but I won't release her name.

That's right. I was watching the Addams Family with the kids the other day, and what is the daughter's name in Addams Family?

You've got Morticia, of course, and you've got Uncle Fester, and you've got Grandma Ma, what?

And you've got Pugsley, the son. What was the daughter's name? And I think you're gonna be surprised. It's something, no,

I don't remember it. Wednesday. Wednesday, really? Yeah, Wednesday, isn't that interesting? Yeah, it's nice. So today

I know. It's pretty close to something I would almost expect, yeah. So we're talking about the call to ministry, and we don't wanna get into the gender roles here today and the differences, but it's clear in Titus chapter one and in First Timothy chapter three, and as Steve just read in chapter two, that men are called into ministry by God to oversee the church, which is purchased by the blood of Christ.

And so it's God's prerogative to pick those men that he would choose. And so today, Steve, when we're talking about call to ministry, before we get into some of the details, people walking to our offices and studies,

I think I'm called to ministry. Help me, am I? Before we answer that question, give us an overview though about how everyone should be called to minister and why a call to ministry today would even be an important topic for lay people to listen to, or ladies to listen to.

I guess you mean the overall idea of ministering the local church. Please. Okay.

I don't know really what I mean, but it's radio, so we have to keep talking. All right, well, First Corinthians 12, when it talks about spiritual gifts and the

Holy Spirit distributes them as he will, and the purpose of them, kind of describes in chapter 12 there the idea of there being a multiplicity of gifts, different sorts of gifts.

He describes it in terms of the body parts, hands and feet and a head and the eye and the ear and all these different things, because as people come into a local church, as they join the local church, as they are added to the local church, they're going to serve in different ways.

And the idea is that the body functions best when all of its parts are functioning as they should, as they are called to minister by the

Holy Spirit. And so if you're listening today and you're a Christian, you do have a spiritual gift, as Pastor Steve said in First Corinthians 12, the spirit sovereignly gives you one at salvation, and you should be serving in the local church.

And so men and women are each gifted and they are supposed to serve in local church. Right, that's absolutely right.

And some of the things that people, how they view spiritual gifts wrongly is maybe they want to decide themselves what their spiritual gift is.

I have the gift of teaching, even though I don't like to speak in front of people. Or they somehow think that they're going to discover their spiritual gift by fasting and meditation.

How do you discover your spiritual gift, Pastor Mike? Hum. He's got the spiritual gift of humming.

Well, I do have a spiritual gifts inventory. sheet with 9 ,000 questions, and you enter it electronically, and it's sent to our warehouse that we have, our

No Compromise Warehouse in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and then they'll do the tallying and send it back to you free of charge.

Really? I thought it was in Battle Creek, Michigan, but I digress. People want to know their spiritual gifts and know we're in the

New Testament. Interestingly, are we given a template for how to determine our spiritual gifts?

You see the commands, use your spiritual gifts. I think of 1 Peter chapter 4, if you want to be a good steward of the manifold grace of God that he's given you in Christ Jesus, forgiveness, salvation, justification, just—I've just said justification— sanctification, if you want to respond properly, you will serve.

And so when people say, what's my spiritual gift? I just tell people, Steve, look for something to do around the church, and we'll quantify your spiritual gift in your mind later after I see your strengths and weaknesses as you serve.

So in the meantime, just get busy and serve. You don't need to know. So we don't have a spiritual gift wheel where we spin it around and we determine it that way.

We don't lay on hands and declare what people's spiritual gift is. Well, when rich people come to the church,

I lay hands on them and say, you have the gift of giving. And do you believe in a tithe?

The Israel tithe of 26 and a half percent. Nice. And then I give them my address, NoCompromisedRadio .com.

Okay. Now we're trying to make people feel good today. You need to laugh today. Laughter is good medicine.

Yes, it is. It is. So today on No Compromised Radio, we're talking a little bit about ministry, and I think it's gonna be a two -part show.

We're going to lead up into how pastors, or potential pastors, should think through their calling.

After all, Steve, isn't it a big deal if you're going to be a pastor now at 30 years old or 40 years old, someone's listening, they're going to have to sell their house and move across the country, go to seminary.

It's a big decision. It shouldn't be entered into lightly. It's a weighty decision. I mean, there are a lot of factors to consider, not the least of which is your family.

And, you know, I mean, do you really have the call? Are you deluding yourself? You know, how do you know?

How can you make sure that you have that calling? When we look at the call, again, here we don't see any scriptures that will help us determine a subjective call, but we do start with qualifications for elder in 1st

Timothy 3 and in Titus chapter 1. Steve, is it fair to say that if you're not qualified as an elder in the

New Testament Church, are on your way to be qualified, you shouldn't be toying with the idea of,

I'd like to be in ministry? Absolutely. I mean, if we went over these, and I guess we most likely will, but if we went over these qualifications and you could say, well, gee, that doesn't sound like me, then

I don't care how great of a communicator you are, you ought not to be in the ministry. So if someone is divorced as a

Christian, we have to work through the issues here. What about, he is a one woman man?

Those kind of things have to be addressed before you should go further. What if you're not, what if you think you should go to seminary, but you don't do any teaching now?

Somebody said, I'd really like to go to seminary, I'm attracted to Bible preaching, biblical exposition, I think

I should go to seminary, but I don't really teach anybody now. What advice would you give them? Teach. I mean, it's not a no -brainer.

I'm going to invest thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, and I'm going to invest hundreds of hours, you know, learning biblical languages, learning historical theology, learning, learning, learning, learning, but I'm not going to see if anybody will listen to me teach.

I think there there might be a little problem there, a disconnect as it were. One of the best ways you can affirm and have your spiritual desires of call to ministry affirmed is teach in the local church, and then people above you and under you, that is elders and deacons above you, and people that you're teaching, that would be those under you, can say, yes, you have the gift of teaching.

Oh, he's really good at that. The elders say, good job, we think you're gifted, you do an excellent job studying and then condensing and teaching, that is a spiritual gift, you're apt to teach, you're a successful teacher, and people who sit and listen to you like it.

It really is an amazing thing, because I'm not just, you know, I'm not just saying this because I'm on your show here today, but where's that pause button?

I think it's a cough button. But you know, going to the Bible study back in the day in Los Angeles, and you know, going to Grace Community Church, sitting under John MacArthur, Bill Shannon, and other men like that, and having the opportunity to just sit and listen, and to just think after a while, you know, this is great, and I want to learn more, and in fact,

I love this so much, I want to teach, and then to have the opportunity to actually have men affirm that, and I mean,

I remember one Sunday morning just kind of giving my testimony in the fellowship group, and the man who was leading the singing that morning saying, just turning to everybody and going, don't you think he should be in seminary?

And I just thought, huh, that's funny, that's kind of what I was thinking, but how did you know, you know? That is a mystical subjective sign,

Steve. It is a mystical subjective sign, and I'm not recommending that, but it was just kind of, it was interesting how

I was starting to form the idea, and you know, then other people started saying, hey, what do you think about going to seminary?

And I thought, hey, that's what I've been thinking about. And Steve likes folk songs, and so I almost want to quote to him, do you know where you're going to?

Do you like that? Well, folk songs, I don't think Diana Ross would think of herself as a folk singer.

Is that who sang that? Yes. Seriously? Yeah. I was thinking of the Joni Mitchell type of thing, or some kind of Harry Chapin.

Yeah, you don't want to get into a 70s music trivia contest with me, because I'll bury you. Unless it's punk rock, and then

I would win. Well, probably. Probably. But, you know, that's because I'm more refined in my sensibilities.

And he's more humble, too. Great is my humbleness. Oh, by the way, this has nothing to do with anything on No Compromise Radio, but when

Benny Hinn walks out on stage to the tune of Great Is Thy Faithfulness, I about fell over.

I, you know, my mom told me to say, you know, if I had nothing good to say, not say anything at all.

And I don't usually keep that. But you're speechless. Yeah, I mean,

Great Is Thy Faithfulness. I mean, Benny Hinn is called to the ministry.

He's a model of what is not to be called to the ministry. I mean, prideful, arrogant, obviously a pursuer of money.

And if you want to send me an email, I'd be happy to answer it. Info at BBC, or I'm sorry, what is it?

Info at NoCompromiseRadio .com. And just say, this is for Pastor Steve. How dare you blast dear

Pastor Benny? Because I would love to just tell you what the Bible says about Pastor Benny.

Well, since this is kind of comedy hour, do you know he has a, he's going on the road as a singer. He's got a backup band.

It's Benny and the Jets. Well, all I know is there's a movie I can't really recommend, but Steve Martin modeled his phony preacher after Benny Hinn.

Oh yeah, I remember that. And it's pretty frightening how spot -on that performance is. When I go to YouTube and type in Benny Hinn Sith Lord and show it to my kids, they love it.

I haven't seen that. What they do is, it's a compilation of Benny Hinn when he takes his jacket off and knocks people down with the

Holy Spirit. Yeah. And so they take out electronically, digitally, they take the coat out and put a lightsaber on there, replete with the noise, and then it just shows him as Benny Hinn Sith Lord whacking all these people.

Well, now consider this. I had a seminary prof and he went over to France for a conference, and while they were over there, because they found out he was a teacher in America, they said, do you know the greatest living

American theologian? And he said, who's that? And they said, Benny Hinn. And he had this suppressed laughter.

But when you think about theology, when you think about what the Bible says, and then you think about Benny Hinn treating the third person, underlined person, of the

Trinity as some kind of magical, mystical force or wind that he can direct and throw around at will, the

Holy Spirit is not a force. He is a person. Well, that's clear from Acts, where you see that they lied to him, they lied to a

Holy Spirit, they lied to God. You're exactly right. The other one I like for Benny Hinn on YouTube, Steve, is if you type in Benny Hinn, let the bodies hit the floor.

Oh, yeah, I've seen that one. You know, whatever that kind of nasty song is. Let the bodies, yeah, kind of hip -hop rap thing.

I think it's more Metallica scream type of music. Okay, well, whatever it is. But those are very interesting.

So I don't know how we got off on this topic, but it's fun. I think you brought up Pastor Benny. I've got the warm feeling that's making me happy.

But we're talking about the call to ministry and whether or not Benny Hinn could possibly be called to ministry.

Of course, he's getting a divorce, which would be another indication. Obviously not called into ministry.

Well, what happens if you are really teaching in the local body, and God has gifted you with teaching, and you're wondering if you should take it to the next level, you begin to teach people.

It's a passion, and those above you, the elders and leaders, pastors, they recognize it. Those that you're teaching, they recognize it as well.

And then the pastor, if he is smart, pastoral staff. I kind of don't like the lead pastor talk.

You know, I'm lead pastor. Well, I'm following pastor. Your title is what?

Senior teaching pastor in charge of all instruction. Pastor is just fine.

Pastor teacher. And then you begin to work with that young man, or it could be an older man, and making sure he has sound doctrine.

Isn't there some teaching and training and theological education that the seminary student -to -be should receive at the local church before he even goes?

A time of testing and trial and education? Absolutely. I mean, if the local church will not affirm you, then my suggestion is don't go to seminary.

And I just remember my own experience. I don't really think—I mean, did I learn in seminary? Absolutely.

You know, and I tell people all the time that two main things I learned were how much time I waste, because it's amazing what you can do when you really have to in seminary, and the second thing was just how much

I don't know. How much there is theologically to learn. The depths of the riches and the wisdom of God are immeasurable, and we can only scratch the surface even in three or four years of seminary.

And so I learned that. But, you know, fundamentally nothing about my theology changed while I was in seminary, but that was a testament to what was poured into me before I even went.

Yes, if you are a man, you'd like to have gospel ministry, and you'd like to go to seminary.

So far, no compromise ready. We've talked about the objective part of the call, and that objective part is those above you and those below you, figuratively speaking, in terms of teaching, they recognize your giftedness, and they know you could get better, and that you could...

Well, I'm just thinking, boy, I hope so, because I'm still trying to get better. That's right. That's in kernel form, at least.

You have the gift. You can always become more skilled with your gift. You can't get a new gift, but you can, you know, sharpen your skills.

And then there's the subjective side of the call, and to me, Steve, the subjective side is you have an overwhelming desire, and it's almost like an irresistible force.

You feel compelled to go into the ministry. This is harder to quantify, but there is a subjective side to the call,

I think. Well, and there has to be. Let's put it that way, because if there isn't just an overwhelming sense within you that you need to be in the ministry,

I'm gonna tell you what, I think it's one of the reasons why. What's the average lifespan in the ministry? Isn't it like five years or something like that?

It's not very long. It is so all -consuming and so, at times, brutal.

Yes, it's rewarding. I mean, I don't want to make it sound like it's drudgery all the time, but there's, I mean, you know, police work, we used to say it was vast hours of boredom interspersed with minutes of sheer terror.

I think it's the other way around for ministry. Yeah, it's hours of sheer terror, you know, interspersed with times of boredom, but not enough of those, you know.

Somehow, I don't usually get bored. No. My life is not worrying about all the things

I have to do, but don't have enough time to get them done. Steve, how about this by Spurgeon?

In his great book, Lectures to My Students, and by the way, if you want to know if you're called or not, get that book, Lectures to My Students, Charles Spurgeon.

It has a chapter entitled, The Call to Ministry, and here's what

Spurgeon says about this subjective side of the ministry. Very short, very pithy, very concise.

Page 23. Do not enter the ministry if you can help it. Well, I mean, listen, for the reasons

I say, look, if you expect to, you know, just have, I mean, how's it portrayed in the movies?

You know, a life of ease. If you enter the ministry, I mean, the really fine movie called Sense and Sensibility, but one of the reasons why the main character is drawn in the ministry, because basically it pays reasonably well, and it's a life of ease, and I'm like, well,

A, it doesn't, you know, always pay that well, although we're not complaining here at Bethlehem Bible Church, but it's also not really a life of ease.

It really is a 24 -7 kind of, even waking up in the middle of the night and just having the weight of the lives of the sheep just weigh on you.

If you'd like to be a mainstream pastor, mainstream pastorette, mainline denomination, it might be an easy job, right?

You don't, one of the main things that, the main thing that takes my time is trying to prepare a sermon, a message from the

Word of God that reveals God's passion, authorial intent, Christ -centered, and then you have to preach to the same people every single week, and they expect a great sermon, goes out on the web, videos, and everything else.

It takes a long time, but if you're mainstream, mainline guy, you can do pastoral breakfasts all day long, morning, noon, and night, kind of like Danny's breakfast is always open, siempre abierto.

And stay up Saturday night, you know, for half an hour, scratch down a few notes, and get up and wing it for 15 minutes, you know, and you're good.

I've heard people say, you know, what an easy job it is. I mean, you only have to work an hour a week, you know, on Sunday morning, and I'm like, hmm.

I missed that memo somewhere. I mean, when you, if you actually, I would invite anyone who thinks it's easy to even put together one sermon, and have it be coherent and biblical, and then try to stand up and preach it for 45, it's not easy.

That sounds like a good slogan for a show. Always coherent, always biblical, always not in that order.

Well, you know what, some guys can be biblical, and absolutely not very coherent, you know, because they're just all over the map.

So, so far today on No Compromise Radio, we've just dipped our toe into the shallow water of the idea, what about the call to ministry?

Should you, if you're listening today, sell everything and go to seminary? Now we're, probably next time,

Steve, have to talk about seminary degrees online, distance learning, stuff like that, but that'll be for next time.

I just remember, you know, when you talk about selling everything and going to seminary, I just remember some of the stories, you know, guys in Master's Seminary literally selling everything, and kind of, you know, their brakes failing on the old, you know,

Buick as they're cruising over the last crest and, you know, having to drive into a ditch to stop the car, and that's how they got to seminary, you know.

And that's a true story, too. It wasn't of me, but I remember hearing that exact same thing. So if you're called to ministry, the best thing we can tell you is, lectures to my students,

Charles Spurgeon, read that, and then make sure you're teaching in a local church, and those over you, elders, and those that you're teaching would confirm that, and then you need to have a subjective, overwhelming desire for gospel ministry.

It's not an easy call. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Ebendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible -teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff, or management.