September 18, 2008

Upcoming Debates and Apologetics Schedule

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white. And good afternoon evening, welcome to the dividing line on Thursday afternoon prior to the debates in Southern, California once again for those in that area. The information is on the blog Of tomorrow evening Friday evening seven o 'clock one six seven oh five Bellflower Boulevard in Bellflower, California.

We will be having some sort of a get-together. I'm really not even certain to be honest with you exactly what this is going to look like. All I know is I have 20 to 25 minutes to present the doctrine of original sin and the need for atonement and In some format, I'm not really certain exactly how.

My understanding is Farhan Qureshi and Sammy's Atari Will be asking Islamic questions. Whatever Islamic questions are I would assume that would mean objections from the Islamic perspective to that presentation and I think David Woods could be presenting something and Some other Christians are gonna be presenting something and then The Muslims are going to be asking questions and then we have time to answer type of a situation.

That'll be tomorrow evening seven o 'clock then on Saturday September 20th same location one six seven five Bellflower Boulevard. I'll be kicking things off at 10 a .m With a debate. I'm working on the presentation right now looks really awesome.

Looks really really good. I'm not done with it quite yet about two-thirds the way through I would say was just crucified or substituted obviously dealing with the Assertion that Jesus was not crucified that he substitute was put in his place.

I am right now Creating the slides for dealing with the apocalypse of Peter Which my opponent thinks was actually given to Peter even though it is a third century document. I'm not sure how old he thinks Peter actually lived to be but anyway that's the material that I'm putting together right now and Then David would'll be dating dating.

Yeah, right debating Farhan Qureshi at two o 'clock on can we trust the Quran and Then I will be debating Osama Abdullah again at 6 p .m. Can we trust the New Testament? That'll be on the 20th and then on the 21st I will be debating Farhan Qureshi at 2 30 p .m.

This is a 2449 South Center City Parkway, Escondido, California. The door is open. I believe at 1 30 p .m. I will be debating at 2 30 to 5 p .m. Did Jesus claim to be God and then Jetting out immediately my flight is shortly thereafter.

I'm going to have to go directly From the Debate to the airport. So if you're standing around and wanting to you know, ask obscure and long questions I'm afraid you're gonna have to ask somebody else because I've got to Shoot out right after that.

So But looking forward to all of this, of course I have a report for you next Tuesday on all of this and really looking forward to it. I'm extremely excited about the presentations. These are all brand new presentations, obviously the information isn't brand new but I do try to Adapt it to the position of the person I'm debating.

I mean obviously when a debate should be early on the crucifixion he believes Jesus was crucified But that he didn't die. Well that totally changes what your emphasis is gonna be what data you're gonna be presenting you know, you need to try to respond to the person you're debating and So I'm doing the same thing here but then adding to that the fact that I now have this new tool in the form of keynote and These really are the best-looking presentations I've ever made there's just there there's so far beyond anything I've made before it's not even funny.

So they really look good. I showed I showed Micah a couple of screenshots from the one I'm working on right now and he was all capital Wow. So in the king of graphics says Wow means I hit a home run on that one, so He made a special black and white and sort of black and white silver Alpha Omega ministries logo.

For me to put into that one and it's just really really looks cool. So good stuff and in fact that and one of them I have sir a 4157 in the cut on and I actually it It looks like a professional picture.

I took it this morning out of my large size cut on with my little digital camera and Once you put it into a really professional looking theme, it looks like you actually know what you're doing. It's great.

So I'm looking forward to it. It'll it'll be great. So with that in mind, I hope you'll be praying for us this coming weekend. I Have a lot of stuff coming up this fall. And as I mentioned yesterday on on the blog just a reminder to everyone that's You know, I imagine there are I know of one person Who sort of has a quote-unquote ministry?

He's on the wrong side of things, but He is independently wealthy. I don't know if he was one of those calm guys and managed to get out before the bubble burst or just what but he's Just independently wealthy.

He just got oodles of money. And so he can just sit around do his do his thing. That ain't us and All these things that we're doing requires that people stand with us. And so I I know that the stock market went down 900 some odd points in two days and everybody's going what's going on, but these these opportunities are still there the persecuted church is still there Islam is still there and so pray for us and stand with us, please as we Seek to take advantage of the opportunities.

The Lord gives to us and there are some great ones coming up including especially the Bart Ehrman debate coming up in January. That's going to be a real challenge as well. So with that Of course phone numbers eight seven seven seven five three three, three, four one we haven't taken much in the way of phone calls for a while and I think it's because You know, I I don't worry.

I guess I need to thank Jimmy Akin for You know and Catholic answers for constantly promoting the Bible answer man discussion We had as if it was a debate and as if it was some clear-cut win for the Catholic side.

Because we went through that point by point respond to each one then we've got the painfully obviously debate that Patrick Madrid was crowing about and All of a sudden everybody's going. I love when you do that I love when you did go through those debates and go point by point Respond to things and you sort of slow it down that way and give some of the background and man It's just really really helps me to understand the issues.

So I guess I've only got 70 of them. At the rate we're going I'm not sure I get through all of them before I'm gonna croak but We certainly should look at some of them and I know in light of the fact that one particular individual Recently a Baptist posted some claims about the debate with Wilkin on the subject subjects relevant to Lordship salvation in particular the Relationship of regeneration faith and so on so forth.

We still haven't put that on video have we and with the with the video machine right now giving us all sorts of fits. We may never but we never put that on video. I came real close to it. The issue Was acquiring all of the PowerPoint.

Well, you did PowerPoints he found. He did he did all sorts of silly pictures, yeah, he did some pictures and with backgrounds the ramshackle shacks. They've been rather hard to find so we've been trying to duplicate that.

Well, we need to get that. I want to do that because at least even if we don't do the DVD of it. We need to make it available online because well the QuickTime stuff that we're working with mp4 and everything if we can get this computer to start cooperating again, and it just suddenly went and It hasn't been nice to me all day.

Yeah, so but if we can get rolling with that again We'll start posting videos online in the 320 by 240 Format iPod and iTunes and QuickTime, right? Just like we've got the Marian Doctrine ones up there.

I got the Marian doctrines one up and of course that was one camera shoot that we didn't have any control over right and now. The Shabir Ali debate from Seattle is what's processing in there right now if we can get it to stay alive.

You know if we can get it to start Cooperating again. I'm that close to being done with it and uploading it. Yeah, so anyway We want to put the Wilkin debate together. And we should go ahead and review it because there is a number of claims He made especially regards the original languages that I did not have an opportunity to respond to and would like to be able to do so.

But as I said I listened to the Wilkin debate a couple months ago I remember I was riding South Mountain and so it's been a number of months ago now. And I I remember hearing myself and not saying I have in in no debates that I've done before have I ever Less recognized the representation of my own position when I then what I just heard I mean it was just that bad and I was I was shocked at Wilkins behavior.

You know the the pictures the ramshackle shack. You know stuff that just you're just like this is this is this guy's a graduate of Dallas what what's going on here? So it was it was quite the amazing thing and and again Every time folks going.

Oh, yeah, there's a there's an anonymous supporter of James white that was really disappointed with that. Okay, that's that's good anonymous anonymous supporter really disappointed, so we'll have to go through that one as well and Take a look at it and go point by point through it and others have said they'd love to hear the Stafford debate.

And I would like to do that in fact I contacted dr. Hartley to see if he would join me because dr. Hartley is you know sort of one of the leading experts on mass and count nouns and so since Greg Stafford wanted to try to Drag the debate off into stuff that no one in the audience could ever begin to understand.

Maybe we could find a time to have him on Go ahead and do an uber technical dividing line going into the issues of mass and count nouns and their relevance or lack of relevance to John 1 1 and things like that and Then go back through that one point by point as well so there's all sorts of things and debates that we could do we can go through point by point and address these things and Since people find it useful then that's what we want to do.

We want to do what is most useful to our listening audience help you to Basically address the same issues. You know obviously I would think that if all I ever do is do debates. But I don't equip anybody else To do similar things to have understanding on these subjects maybe not necessarily you know debate in the same context, but if you can listen to these debates and Not grow in confidence in your faith, then I'm not doing a very good job.

And if you can listen to this program and Not feel better equipped not feel more bold in your Witness and your your willingness to engage these subjects and to talk about these things then again. I I think we're wasting bandwidth.

We're not here to entertain anybody. I mean seriously I the older I get the more I think about the fact that everything I do each day. What is going to be its eternal impact. What what is the value of what I'm doing today in eternity.

You know if I'm not training people and and it's so neat the as you get older you start to see the the domino effect of where you've been you've you've impacted this person and then They've impacted this person, and they've impacted this person you see the the ripple effect in essence you know you've dropped the the pebble in the in the pond, and you see the the ripple going out and and That's an exciting thing to see.

Especially when I travel even travel a long distance and encounter someone that has been deeply impacted by what we do here so that's what we want to do and we want to make it educational and I don't think that I'm boasting or saying anything else.

But to point out that I don't think anybody else does what we do I mean the topics we address the range of topics we address. And the way that we do it absolutely unique. You know there's no pretension here.

We're not trying to be all fancy-schmancy. But who else would have an entire program discussing a single textual variant in Luke 23. You know. Not too many folks and there'd be a lot of folks say yeah, that's why you're small you idiot.

You're not marketing right and and this type of thing would never make it on you know the television the radio network. And stuff like that, and yeah, well, that's probably why we're not on a radio network.

Because you're right you know I mean I've obviously have friends who are in the the radio biz and It's a it's a bad place to be let's just face it. I mean, it's money money money advertising advertising advertising watered-down.

Don't talk about doctrine. Don't talk about apologetics. Don't do any that kind of stuff that's that's what Christian radio is about today, and there are very few exceptions to that and so I I'm glad that we don't have to worry about that the only thing we have to worry about is When Big Brother's gonna step in and say you're offending people.

You know like the motion that's going to be brought before the United Nations Very soon by the Muslims who want to outlaw blasphemy of the Prophet. And anything that could be considered religiously defamatory.

You know a lot of us sit back now. That's the UN a bunch of blue-hatted nutcases out there folks. Just you know depending on who gets elected in just about 40 some odd days. Stuff like that could start impacting us.

You know you got to have people in Washington that think that the Constitution is Still the most important law on the land you get a bunch of people in Washington that think that all those pencil-headed Europeans have good ideas and want us to be more like France than than like the original founded United States and there's a lot of people who want to do that and you're gonna start seeing people clamping down on freedom of speech all over the place and.

And Anyway, I keep talking about that, and I know people go. That's never gonna happen here. Well. It's it's already happening here. That's the problem anyway eight seven seven seven five three three four one.

I've given you what's going on this weekend. Let's dive back into the Solskjaer debate from 1993 we only got seven minutes in Into it last time because I started preaching so I will attempt to refrain from preaching, but let's let's get back at it here and Why isn't it playing?

Well my do-do-do-do, and he watches his computer sit here, and not work. It's a great day for computers today, isn't it? It truly is. My computer just decided that it's not going to Play this file, and it's gonna hang up and die all right great wonderful Adobe edition has how many times does this work for me?

Over and over and over again, but now it has just has just it's just go. It is it is dead, so is there any possibility whatsoever brother Pierce that you would have a Have a commercial or something that you could queue up early so I could Rhea Reese reset this thing and get it working right I guess so Steve Campbell sing for us.

That's good. I'm right back and see if I can get the sink.

Trinity and the Need for Apologetics

The Trinity is a basic teaching of the Christian faith. It defines God's essence and describes how he relates to us. James White's book the Forgotten Trinity is a concise understandable explanation of what the Trinity is and why it matters.

It refutes cultic distortions of God as well as showing how a grasp of the significant teaching leads to renewed worship and deeper understanding of what it means to be a Christian and. Amid today's emphasis on the renewing work of the Holy Spirit the Forgotten Trinity is a balanced look at all three persons of the Trinity.

Dr.. John MacArthur senior pastor of Grace Community Church says James White's lucid presentation will help lay person and pastor alike. Highly recommended. You can order the Forgotten Trinity by going to our website at a omen org.

Hello everyone, this is Rich Pierce. In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man-centered self-help program. The need for a no-nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater.

I am convinced that a great many go to church every Sunday yet. They have never been confronted with their sin. Alpha and Omega ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses.

Man is sinful and God is holy. That sinful man is in need of a perfect Savior and Jesus Christ is that perfect Savior? We are to come before the Holy God with an empty hand of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well. Support Alpha and Omega ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

Thank you. Under the guise of tolerance modern culture grants alternative lifestyle status to homosexuality. Even more disturbing some within the church attempt to revise and distort Christian teaching on this behavior in Their book.

The same-sex controversy. James White and Jeff Neal write for all who want to better understand the Bible's teaching on the subject. Explaining and defending the foundational Bible passages that deal with homosexuality including Genesis Leviticus and Romans.

Expanding on these scriptures they refute the revisionist arguments including the claim that Christians today need not adhere to the law In a straightforward and loving manner. They appeal to those caught up in a homosexual lifestyle to repent and to return to God's plan for his people.

The same-sex controversy defending and clarifying the Bible's message about homosexuality. Get your copy in the bookstore at a omen or.

Responses to Catholic Arguments About Scripture and Authority

Catholic scholar might see something different in mr. White might respond by saying well Greek is Greek. Mr. Madrid You can't argue on the basis of ideology or politics. I'm going to save that for some future points simply because we don't have the time to go into what the Catholic scholars say on That issue so I'm not going to go into that now.

That's because he couldn't go into it now. That's the whole point. If he had a Catholic scholar if he had some kind of other material he would have presented it, but he couldn't pretend present it because he didn't have it and.

So this this is how you make an allegation. You make an allegation that well, that's just Protestant stuff. That's that's biased. You're planting the thought in someone's mind that there's something wrong with this when in reality You don't have any information whatsoever that it is wrong.

That is really really cheap argumentation. And he needs to be called on. It should have been called on it. A Serious Catholic listening to this should call him on it. But evidently after all these years.

He hasn't been called on it. Mr. White says that no other passage can be used to deflect second Timothy 317. Mr. White I use James 1 for to deflect second Timothy 317 in fact not really to deflect it.

But simply to hold up a mirror to it and show that you're misusing it now if you have forgotten.

Remember I pointed out that there is no contextual let alone linguistic parallel between those texts. I pointed out that the context is different the purpose is different and the very original language words were different.

But again, Patrick can't deal with those things. He couldn't in 1993. Maybe if he could today he wouldn't make this argument. I don't know. But this is just another completely fallacious argument and so far in this rebuttal period.

Nothing that has been said has actually been relevant to the actual topic of the debate.

You're saying that because the man of God is equipped and sure it does use a different Greek word there. Is that Location here, mr. White. Because he can be equipped for every good work. Therefore it implies that he doesn't need anything else.

Now, mr. White failed utterly to interact with my use of James 1 for he just simply dismissed it out of hand. He said nothing can be used to deflect it.

I'm not sure what debate Patrick was attending. But anyone who actually listened to what I said knows that what was just said is either self-deception or dishonesty. One of the two. Let's just say that it's the fluster of Its debate fluster.

How about how about we be generous and refer to it as that because that's just a false statement. I didn't ignore James 1 for I pointed out that Mr. Madrid had blown it. Utilizing a first-year Bible students error in attempting to create a parallel that didn't exist.

And did you catch the of course is a different Greek word? He didn't know that. Don't don't tell me he knew that before he walked into that debate. He didn't know that he's He's what he's just he's whistling whistling in the dark while walking through the graveyard right now.

He's just trying to avoid stepping on landmines. That's all he's doing. And he's quite good at it and evidently the the Catholics who think this is the wonderful job don't See seem to notice when he's doing something like that.

I want mr. White to tell us why James 1 for cannot be interpreted under his principle. To me that Perseverance in good works and perseverance under persecution, which is what Paul James is talking about.

Why that doesn't mean sufficiency.

Real simple word doesn't mean it. Different word different context. 2nd Timothy chapter 3 is about the man of God preaching doctrine. James 1 4 isn't how simple can that be. And Mr. Madrid you don't have an infallible interpretation from the Magisterium.

So it's just your opinion. And since you're not a theologian and you're not trained the languages Why are you addressing this in the first place? I? Want him to tell us about that. I?

Didn't say that which mr. White would commit all the errors, although he is prone to do so. But he has committed a few of them tonight. So I don't want him to read too much of of what I said about the errors into his own personal situation.

He mentioned that the same old argument about there cannot be two ultimate authorities one subject getting one to the other if you don't like The example of the Gospels and I can move on to a different one.

It wasn't a matter of not liking it. It was a demonstration that it's a bad example. That is that each of the Gospels are They are new stocks and that therefore the only way to understand Patrick's argument is if he is making the church and its tradition They are new stocks.

Okay, it wasn't a matter of not liking it. That's a misrepresentation. Again, you know, it would be very easy for someone to go, you know, it sort of sounds like you're you're you're Really engaging in some cheap debating tricks here trying to Mislead the audience rather than actually dealing with the issues that are right there in front of you.

It's a little tempting to think about that. Jesus and Scripture when Jesus was walking the earth. Jesus was it is God the ultimate authority. And yet mr White would have no compunction in saying that the Word of God is the ultimate authority.

Again, uh.

Utter Confusion. Basic confusion of categories. Utter basic confusion of categories. No one is going to confuse Jesus and Scripture because we believe that Jesus is the very source triune guys very source of Scripture.

We're talking about what is the sole infallible rule of faith for the church? What is the ultimate authority the church has to refer to and to try to try to parallel the Bible and Jesus is to demonstrate cat a category error that just makes you sit here and go is This the first time you've ever thought about these things.

I mean have did you really sit back and and think about this? Yeah, are you really seriously suggesting the Protestants are making the Bible God or do you really not recognize that what Protestants are saying is the Bible is God speaking and That the question is what is the ultimate authority to which the church has to appeal.

Now I would argue once you make the church infallible all the rest of stuff becomes somewhat irrelevant. Because as has been well said once you proclaim the infallibility of the church The church is left in a monologue with herself.

There can be no external source that corrects her because she's always infallible and if she Infallibly defines what scripture is and what it means and what tradition is and what it means she's left talking to herself.

Because there's nothing left externally to her that can correct her or that can bring about Reformation and that's is that not what we see in the history of Rome. Is that not why we see Rome veering off and going off into these odd beliefs about the Marian dogmas and you know, I was I was in New Mexico last weekend and Every time I do my Marian presentation.

Where I go through the dogmas and the development of the dogmas and I go through how John Paul the second Recommended the writings of de Montfort and these these others and you start hearing them talking about how Mary is the the virgin daughter of the Father the mother of the Son and the spouse of the Spirit and You actually read these people talking about how even using the language of Mary being the incarnation of the Spirit I mean just absurdities like this that are part of this Marian piety and Yet these people are considered, you know apostles of a Marian age and visionaries.

And all the rest is silliness and as soon as you point out what we haven't dogmatically defined that. But you've got Popes teaching it and talking about recommending it and stuff like that. When I watch people as I'm reading this stuff, they're they're left their their mouths are literally hanging open.

When you read this kind of stuff. That is the result of having abandoned solo scriptura and having proclaimed the church to be infallible. There's no longer a dialogue going on. There's no longer something controlling and bringing about Reformation because the church is infallible.

And so as soon as you run into something in the scriptures that would seem to try to correct you well, you just infallibly tell people that's not how it needs to be understood and And and and there you go, and that's exactly what we see in what's going on here.

Did the Bible cease being the ultimate authority when Jesus was on the scene in one sense? Mr. White is gonna have to argue if he wants to make his case now, by the way.

This is another area where we're really shallow thinking Catholic apologists and there are a number of them. Especially on YouTube really shallow thinking Catholic apologists. Just don't think through what it is.

We're saying. When we talk about solo scriptura, we're talking about the church today. We're talking about the church post revelation, we're talking about the church after the last of the Apostles have died and.

The question for us today since both sides agree there are no longer any Apostles. Revelation is not an ongoing thing. Then what is? The sole infallible rule of faith that we can turn to. What do we possess that is they are new stops?

That can speak to the church and continue to speak to the church generation after generation. Century after century what do we have? What they always want to do is go back to a point in time that no longer exists.

Jesus is walking on the earth. So is the Bible no longer the ultimate authority? Well, even Jesus referred to and referred to the ultimate authority of the Old Testament scriptures. He said the scriptures cannot be broken.

His final proof was to say thus saith the Lord the scriptures say etc. Etc. There's no question that he Recognized the authority of that because he is the source of all of that. The triune God is the source of that revelation, but the whole idea is.

It's not a matter of trying to make the Bible an authority over Jesus. Because there's a category error between the two the one came from the other. That's not the point. The point isn't well what was going on during the time of the Apostles or during the time of Jesus?

That's one of the areas like I said that I've seen over and over again these these. Especially young men who really I'm sorry. This sounds mean, but it's a straightforward statement. They just don't know what they're talking about.

They've they've never listened to the side to any depth at all there the amount of reading they've done is abysmal. And they show no evidence of actually having thought this stuff through they go oh you're admitting souls come true isn't true because you say this has to do with the with the church and and that during periods of inscription.

That's that it's irrelevant to even ask the question about sola scriptura. Yeah, well periods in scripture ation. I mean when revelations going on doesn't sola scriptura itself assume the existence of the scriptura.

Yeah, it sort of does and so are we in a period where scripture is being written well. No, we're not so now the questions relevant. But it wouldn't be relevant during times of inscripture ation, right?

Well, it isn't true all the time that it's never true. Let's see how often they actually apply that To to their own their own theories their own their own presentations, but not very often. But that's the argumentation if they like to put forward.

Even barely that Jesus constantly referred to scripture as the court of last appeal. Well that undercuts his position. Because if Jesus is referring to an authority outside of himself then what does that say about Jesus.

Was Jesus the ultimate authority. I say Yes, was the Word of God in that sense that mr. White wants to assign to it the ultimate authority. Mr. White would say yes. Well, he's got a quandary there then folks because I've just demonstrated two ultimate authorities.

So what is the only way to understand this argument again the only way for this to make any sense is That Patrick is paralleling in Jesus his tradition. That tradition is they are new stops. That's the only way that any of this could make any sense and yet whenever I press these men Show us what this tradition is.

They can't do it. Oh. We believe in material sufficiency. So I don't have to actually show anything to you. This debate isn't about me proven Roman Catholic tradition and yet he's sitting here Making an argument that requires you to believe that his tradition is parallel to Jesus.

Now at least some of the more conservative guys Like Jerry Matta ticks not only see this but they'll actually try to back it up. No, they can't they fail but they actually back it up because remember remember Jerry's claim in the Marian debate the first debate we did when he made the amazing claim that we have the exact same warrant For believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ that we have for believing in the bodily assumption of Mary remember that and That is the word of the church.

The word of the church, that's it there is sola ecclesia with a Vengeance and there is the death of the Christian faith. There is the end of all meaning apologetics. Meaningful apologetics, that's it.

It's all over with as soon as you go. There. It's just ipsa dixit. It's because we say it is don't question us. Just accept what we have to say. That's it. Just just forget about anything else and That is shocking and amazing to me.

But at least they're open in saying that now remember then when I press Jerry will show us these things show us where this stuff Existed. He couldn't do it. And collapse on that point, but that's the nature of dealing with this kind of Roman Catholic apologetic argument.

I also mentioned the prophets Isaiah and the prophet Jeremiah. Mr White failed to interact with that. Jeremiah and Isaiah were both in their own sense Ultimate authorities. He did not address that. He says that my analogy breaks down regarding the bike shop because The man of God is obviously implying that the man of God in this analogous sense can we can ride a bicycle.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Because the the point is of second Timothy 3 is it is the man of God is seeking to do good works in the church. He's seeking to teach he's seeking to rebuke you see is seeking to exhort reproving in in godliness, etc, etc so it is his analogy that is going beyond the text and Missing the point of the sufficiency of scripture to equip the man of God to do those very things.

Well, if that does not suit mr. White, I'd be happy to use analogy of his own choosing again.

It is Matt not a matter of suiting. It is a matter of having refuted the error the category error inherent in Patrick's arguments.

That he uses again on page 42 of his book answers to Catholic claims. He says. If the rest of the passage again, here's the screaming verse literally scream sufficiency if they are not sufficient How then can they make the man of God complete fully equipped in bold print for every good work?

If I have the ability to fully equip someone for a military mission, mr. White says then am I not sufficient as an equipper now notice sufficient as a what as.

An equipper to provide the things that the person needs remember. There's a context the second Timothy chapter 3 and it's not how to become a man of God. Paul is addressing the man of God in the church and Patrick simply can't deal with that.

He has to continuously ignore the actual context of the original text itself.

To try to make his argumentation, of course, then the objection carries no weight the Catholic objection. Well, I'm afraid mr White has dug himself a little deeper in by using that analogy. So I'll switch to that one if he doesn't like the bicycle one.

If somebody goes into the military and many of you in this room have been in the military. When you get there, you're issued a uniform a helmet a rifle. Ammunition. Not all at once, of course, but you're issued ammunition maybe hand grenades.