From Drug Dealer to Missionary - Alex Wright

This is Apologetics Live. To answer your questions, your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

Welcome to another edition of The Rappaport. I'm your host Andrew Rappaport, the Executive Director of Striving for Eternity and the

Christian Podcast Community, of which this podcast is a proud member. We are here to give you biblical interpretations and applications for the

Christian life. Well, to have a Christian life, you first have to be a, well, a

Christian, and that's what we're going to talk about today with a good friend of mine, Alex Wright. Welcome to The Rappaport, sir.

Hey, thanks for having me on. Now, we're going to talk about your testimony, a little bit about your ministry, but I think we should talk about how when we first met, because that's kind of, that kind of, you know, helped you to realize that I don't just say things online

I don't live by, right? We met at a conference, and then I think you saw me, this is, folks, you got to put the context in, this is back during the

COVID fake pandemic where everyone was told they had to wear a mask, and I was someone that said

I only wear the mask because I fly, getting on a flight and getting off a flight because I just don't walk around with it on in airports, and you were able to recognize me in an airport.

Why was that? Because you didn't have a mask on. The only guy in the entire airport.

Do you remember what your reaction was? Because I certainly do. Did I say you can't do that or something?

No, no, you were like, I'm taking this thing off, and you just ripped your mask off, and you were just, but it did say we're emboldened when we see others stand up for truth, and you were just like,

I'm taking this off, like, you were, after that, you were like, I can't believe you really don't wear the mask. I'm like, no,

I really don't. They yell at me, and then I just walk away from them. Yeah, I remember

I was emboldened because even after that, or we had a phone call too, even after that, I think, and I stopped wearing them back in Florida.

I didn't wear them any stores, and I just dealt with the repercussions, guy running around following me with a box of masks, going on the

PA system, says you have to wear your mask, but then they don't do anything about it. So you actually did embolden me to stop and realize how silly that was.

You and Justin Peters, articles on all the COVID stuff. Yeah. Yeah, because we ended up having, it was you, me, and Justin Peters having lunch that time.

Yeah. And well, Justin didn't have it on because he was eating, but you know, but no, it's,

I mean, this is the thing, you know, Dan Bongino talks about the fact that it's not the first person that, he plays some video,

I've never seen it because I don't listen to his podcast, but he plays a video, I guess, of a guy that stands up on a beach just dancing, and Dan Bongino says it's not the first guy, but the second guy, because like the first guy just looks crazy.

The second guy walks up, and then everyone else goes, they all want to do whatever it is, like take their mask off, and all of a sudden it's like, okay,

I feel like if it's okay, now a couple people are doing it. So we might look crazy as Christians doing the right thing, and in the case of wearing a mask, was it a right versus wrong?

Maybe not, but it was definitely not a thing where there was any science behind wearing a mask, and in fact, in cases, well, like mine with asthma, it actually,

I didn't have my asthma for 20 years until they said, oh, you got to wear a mask, and I'm like, yeah, nope, this is causing me health problems.

I'm not doing it for that reason alone, but yeah. And I think you bring up a good point, because as Christians, we have the

Holy Spirit who is the truth -teller, and I think we are more susceptible to go away from the fringe of society, and because we have the

Holy Spirit, and because we fear God, he's our ultimate authority, he's the one we answer to. We don't care about what everyone else is doing as they follow along with what society might think is all right, but our standard is the

Word of God, our fear comes from God, and the Holy Spirit is the one who bears witness to us and distinguishes us, separates us from the world.

And that's a good point, because there's so many that claim the name of Christ that really seem to fear the world more.

Yeah. I do wonder, as you brought up, do they have the Holy Spirit? I mean, sometimes you can really see, okay, yeah, you don't.

When they start endorsing the homosexuality and all that, it's clear that they want the approval of the world, but they want their fire insurance, they want to be able to go to heaven and still fit in with the world, they want ease, and it's not something

God makes it really clear, it's one or the other. Yeah, and Galatians 1 .10

says, do I have the favor of men or the favor of God? Whose favor am I really wanting?

You know, is it to be seen by men, applauded by men, oh, he's okay, or is it God? And, you know, we've known throughout church history, some men have been very bold and died for that.

Yeah. Yeah, I had, a pastor had a Bible that he had, one of his prized possessions, maybe you say, but he had a

Bible that he was able to get, and he opens to a page, and this was when the

Anabaptists were being killed for believing that you should get baptized after salvation, and in the page was the guy's own blood who owned the

Bible, as they had killed him with his open Bible. Wow.

Yeah, and he kept that, and it was a constant reminder to him, not only he argued for the importance of baptism, but really what some have had to make when they made the choice to follow

Christ, what it was gonna cost, and it was a constant reminder for him that some of these things that we think, because he'd always be like, well, you know, we call persecutions not persecution, and he'd hold the

Bible up, and it was a constant reminder to him that this is what real persecution is, when they're killing you for what you believe, not when they call you names or say, you know, make you feel uncomfortable in the in crowd.

You know, there were people that paid an ultimate price for believing in Christ.

Yeah, and we're heading towards those times. It's, if someone's certain wins, it's almost inevitable that we will have our freedoms taken away more than they are now.

I was at the beach the other day preaching with some guys, and eight cops showed up, told us we couldn't preach.

We were causing a nuisance. Someone called it in, kind of exaggerated what was going on, and you know, this stuff's happening more and more, where it's like, they don't want to hear the gospel, and they're putting us in smaller and smaller venues.

You know, where do you even preach? Eventually it'll be illegal, just like it was in Bunyan's day, you know?

Yes, correct, and that right there is the issue, because we will be having to face the reality that, and you can name names, you don't have to worry about it, but if the

Democrats, you know, just looking at history,

I mean, you have a person who got no votes that is running for president.

The first time she'll get any votes will be in the presidential election. She's got no platform.

She's not telling you what she stands for. In fact, the irony is, she's actually arguing that she's standing for all of her opponents' policies.

She stands for the border wall that Trump did. She claims he stole that from her. No tips on taxes.

The, you know, was the recent one she did, where she, another, there was another one where she took something that Trump had done and said, oh, that's, you know, she's endorsing it.

It's like, folks, if you don't know what she believes, like, people don't hide and lie about what they're gonna do unless they know you won't like it.

It's really that simple. Exactly, and she comes from the state of California where you can kill an unborn child up to nine months in the womb.

So just today, I was kind of, I haven't dug into this, but I saw that Governor Newsom had vetoed a bill that actually got through the

California legislature, but a bill that would make it allow illegal aliens to be able to purchase her home with zero money down and zero percent interest.

Yeah, that's, and you go, so many of us are struggling just to buy a house. That really, struggling to buy food.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's a thing where, well, you know, you know, I'm selling off a lot of my library, you know, to, you know, to bring some, some funds in.

So it's like, you know, people are, are struggling and they're gonna go, oh, we're, I mean, I don't, I can't get a zero percent interest on my house.

That would be nice. Who's, but who's gonna pay that? Well, you know, it's gonna be the state that's gonna pay it, and when these people default on it, you know, who ends up taking the loss?

Well, it's all the taxpayers. Yeah, exactly. You know, or they're gonna force the banks to take the loss.

But anyway, so let's, let's talk about today's issue that we have, which is, wanted to have you come on, share a little bit about your testimony, your ministry, have some discussion on that.

So, you know, you and I have known each other for, for many years. I've known you and the ministry you're doing, but let folks know a little bit about who you are.

How did you get saved? Let's hear the long story. Oh, the long one, okay. Let me go back.

Well, not from when you were born, you know, not the four -hour version, but yeah, yeah, no, no,

I got you. I'll condense it. So I grew up in a pseudo

Christian household, you know, my parents said they believed in God, they love God, we would, we went to like, more of an assemblies of God care, like kind of leaning charismatic type church.

I remember speaking in tongues at five, and let going up there and speaking in tongues at five, and the lady saying

I was saved, I didn't even know what she was talking about. I remember praying a prayer again at 12, becoming baptized again at 14.

So three, three times I was saved, you know, according to the people who I was around in the church.

So three false professions. And, and then in my household, while you know,

I'm growing up, my dad drank some, you know, they like to party a little bit, there was a, it was just an inconsistent household, there wasn't, they said they believed in God, but they didn't really live the life that a

God fearing Christian would live. So for me, you know, it's very confusing. I kind of held on to those professions and those confessions of faith, thinking

I was saved. Well, so what happened was, when I was 18,

I had a couple different choices to go to college, I decided to go to University Arizona.

And I went from I grew up outside of Chicago, I went to University Arizona, started getting into weed, started smoking weed, started dealing drugs, dealing weed.

Then the following year, I went back, that was my sophomore year, I met a roommate who was into pills.

So I started getting into Oxycontin, Xanax, stuff like that. It got to a point where, at one point,

I was snorting 180 milligrams of Oxycontin a day. This was during the 2008.

So this was during the opiate epidemic, the pills were coming in from Florida to Arizona, they're coming in from Mexico, loose regulation, pill mills, doctors were, you know, over prescribing it and people were selling them.

So, you know, I think it was like $1 a milligram at that point. So I mean, it was a lot of money. But so I started snorting them,

I got physically addicted to Oxycontin. I actually quit cold turkey when I was in Arizona, I quit for three days with Drew, you know, throwing up, just lots of pain, depression, suicide.

Well, I quit. But then I went, I couldn't finish school. So during the drugs,

I was failing classes, I went back home to my parents house outside of Chicago. And I was planning on going back, but the drug addiction was just so strong.

And you know, that was my sin. Addiction was my sin. That was the thing that was the most prevalent in my life.

So I started selling drugs up there, I eventually got set up by an undercover guy who worked for the police and a narc, who set me up, you know, the cops came in,

I was in a parking lot selling drugs, you know, they came in and get on the ground for shotguns on my face wanted me to rat out people.

You know, my life just kept spiraling over and over and over. I was a slave to my sin, you know, and I was also kind of at that point,

I was 22 or so 2122. So holding on to this false profession going, well, I say to I said a prayer,

I'm okay. Yeah, my life's kind of messed up. But so I got put on probation,

I started to get into methadone, which was another drug I during this time,

I mean, I just kept doing opiates, it was either oxycodone, methadone, Vicodin, suboxone, all these different pharmaceuticals, and I just kept getting deeper and deeper.

I overdosed probably 15 to 20 times easily never went to a hospital because I was so scared of getting arrested or getting in trouble, especially while I was on probation.

So the Lord was still watching over me even in my unconverted state. So this went on for years.

So this was like from 18 to 26. So then I turned 26, a friend of mine who

I'd coincidentally, or, you know, providentially started praying for even in my lost state, I would put his name in prayer request box growing up, he was a

Hindu guy. And he became a Christian. And he started reaching out to me because we had partied together and did drugs together and stuff.

He started texting me and sending me Bible verses trying to take me to some movies. And he said something to me looking back.

He said, Yeah, Alex, you were so angry. You hated everyone hated everything hated yourself. And every time you get off the phone with me, you'd be like, but God has a plan for me.

I don't remember any of any of that conversation at all. But I would say it quite often.

So this so this happened. So he gets saved, he starts reaching out to me, I get to a point when

I was 20 July of 2014. I'm 26. Two guys that I was getting drugs from one tried to commit suicide.

He broke both his wrists, he tried to hang himself. And he was in the hospital. So I went to his house, his mom's crying, he's in the hospital,

I can't get my drugs. The other guy was getting drugs, went to rehab, he's passed away.

Now a lot of people I've seen, they're gone. So I couldn't get my drugs. So I go to the emergency room, and I fake an injury,

I say, I have pain in my stomach. Well, you can't say that because if you have pain in your stomach, opiates mess with your stomach lining, they won't prescribe them to you.

So he's like, just take some Tylenol, go home. So I go home, I said, You know what I meant?

That's it, I'm gonna quit. So I this is after, you know, years of drugs, you know, gambling was involved in that women, all that just terrible sin.

But I quit cold turkey in my parents house in my room, you know, withdrawing suicidal thoughts.

And after you know, every day got a little better. It was only by the power of God, even in my unconverted state that he helped sustain me through that.

But after a couple days, things got better. I had clarity for the first time in my life for a long time, in my mind for a long time.

And I knew Jesus died for my sins. And I called my friend up and I said,

Look, I want to pray I want to ask for forgiveness. I need to repent of everything I've done.

And so I prayed with him the prayer felt like two hours, but in actuality, it was five minutes as soon as I said amen.

The Holy Spirit came into me as equal 3626 says he'll take out the heart of stone give you a heart of flesh.

He gave me a new heart, my eyes opened and I looked around and it was like I woke up out of a coma.

I had this desire to go to church. I wanted to read the Bible like right away. I wanted to I didn't want to do the things

I used to do. I hated my sin. And that's when I was born again. And that in my parents house there 10 years ago.

Well, I mean, it's what you said there from the beginning, the fact that there's so many in that same situation where they're living in the world, claiming to be a

Christian, because hey, I said a prayer. So many people think all I got to do is say a prayer. Like that's, that's all it's a magical thing.

Even the fact that you're saying you're spoken tongues at five, but didn't know what was going and they, they associate that with salvation.

Yeah. Which is interesting, because so many, I mean, there are so many that do that.

And there's some they'll say, no, no, no one does it. There are plenty who do. But instead of explaining the gospel, you were hearing about speaking in tongues.

Yeah, exactly. It was, yeah, I remember that vividly. And then two other times, you know, 1211 or 12,

I was on an airplane. And these, these people were next to me. And they're like, you know, taking me through the sinner's prayer.

And I said the sinner's prayer. And I was there like, you're saved. I remember this couple, like it was yesterday.

You're saved. I said, Oh, okay, I guess I wasn't saved before. Now I am saved. You and I would agree that we don't know if someone's saved, but we're going to look at the fruit in their life over a long period of time.

Yeah, exactly. You know, there are a lot of people who profess to know

Christ. And it stops there. And looking at your lifestyle that you are living, clearly, you can look back and say, you weren't saved at that point.

Yeah, yeah. No, speaking of that, this is a good transition. When I was 14, 14, 15,

I got baptized in this youth group. I was very involved with it. I was really close with the youth pastor there. We would joke about coarse things.

He had Rob Bell videos. And it was like kind of a seeker sensitive type church. I mean, we would,

I think, you know, if I am a pastor one day, I would never do the things he would talk to me about, you know.

But so I saw him after I was converted. And I said, Hey, look, I'm saved.

You know, God saved me. He's like, Yeah, but you were baptized. You you prayed a prayer back then.

And I said, No, I would have been in hell. Yeah, for all eternity. He said, and he was big on one saved, always saved.

So he's arguing with me about my conversion. And saying, No, I you were saved back then.

I said, No, Dan, I would have been in hell for all eternity, if I would have died before I was actually born again.

It seems that there are for some, like in a case like this, where, well, you had to have been saved, because I put a notch on my belt, you know, for you, and therefore, you know, you have to be saved, because otherwise, you know,

I got to remove that notch. I'm saying it jokingly, but for some, it sure seems that way.

Yeah. And even when I was, you know, when I was in that youth group, I was buying alcohol for some of the kids in the youth group, we had parties, you know, like we

I was doing things that were so hypocritical. You know, it's still kind of this internal struggle, but I was ultimately a slave to my sin.

I did not want to do righteous. I did not want to do good. I wanted to do what I wanted to do. I wanted to chase what

I wanted to chase. And then going to church or youth group and going, yeah, I love Jesus too, yeah, yeah, he's good, you know, just so nonchalant.

You know, the passage that comes to mind, and I know this will be fresh in your mind, is Matthew 7, 21 to 23, because that's really so many, there are so many who are afraid to discuss and talk about the fact that we just, if we're going to be honest, there's many people who make a profession of faith without anything that shows that they are regenerate at all.

Yeah. And there's so many that don't want to face that. And that is something

I know you and I've talked about, the fact that this is a major issue that is one of the hardest things to evangelize, is a person who thinks they're saved when they're not.

Yes, very difficult. Up there with people in cults, for sure, 100%. And you deal with both, but you deal with those in the cults.

So, you know, the reality though is, as we think about it, let me just ask, why do you think it is that there's so many false converts?

And when I say a false convert, I mean someone that claims to be a Christian, but it's just a claim.

They haven't actually been converted. And this is what James would be talking about kind of throughout the book, but when he says, you know, you do works, your works are dead if you say that you have works without faith, because the natural response to salvation should be works.

That's what James says. Why do you think it is that we have this problem, such a problem with it?

Yeah, I think there's two things. One, going back to the late 1800s, early 1900s in America, the

Crusades, the altar calls, the revivals, getting up there, getting numbers, going from town to town, just saying, you know, someone comes up, oh,

I believe, and then the fizzle wears out, the hype goes down, and then they just are still living in the world.

So that started with, you probably know more than me, that was like Smith Wigglesworth and going into Billy Graham in the 50s and stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd want to say that Smith Wigglesworth isn't a Christian, but he certainly wasn't, you know,

I mean, he was the extreme side of the charismatic circles, but you know, you bring up Billy Graham and just look in his life, look at the fact that he started, and he even admitted in his book,

I forget the title of his book, that he wrote toward the, you know, toward the end of the ministry.

I don't want to say end of life, because I think he kind of shut down ministry, stopped doing ministry, but was still alive for another 20 years or something.

But when he wrote a book where he admitted that in hindsight he should not have been bringing

Roman Catholics into his Crusades to minister to Roman Catholics that came forward, but that's what he did.

If you came up and you said, well, I'm Roman Catholic, they would send you to someone who's a

Roman Catholic counselor. What are they gonna do, share the biblical gospel? No. It's to get them back into church, and that really became what the

Crusades were about, not about regeneration and conversion, but about going back to church, which brings in a moralism.

But we shouldn't be surprised by that, because if you look, I mean, who was it before Billy Graham?

It was Billy Sunday, and Billy Sunday was around the time when you had

Prohibition and things like that, and it was all this preaching on moralism, and before Billy Sunday, Billy Sunday followed the ministry of Finney, and Charles Finney denied the doctrine of original sin.

We would say from what he believed, he didn't believe in, you know, a substitutionary sacrifice of Christ, because he just didn't like the idea that Christ would be the propitiation of our sin.

So you have a guy that's preaching that's, you know, considered the the world -known evangelist of the time, goes to the second one,

Billy Sunday, goes to the third one, Billy Graham, but what they're actually teaching is nothing more than moralism.

Now, Billy Graham, in the early years, was teaching a biblical gospel message. Yeah, he had a gospel message, but like you said, moralism and then the pragmatic way of going about, of coming up, and then someone prays.

I've been in churches like this. They pray with you, and you go, and these people come up week after week after week, and it's like, oh,

I'm saved again, I'm saved again. It's this pragmatic way of doing things, when it's, Romans 1 16 says, the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes.

It's the Lord who does the converting. Yeah, and that's what...it's

somewhat frustrating, because there's so many who just...maybe people who are listening right now who are yelling at their device, because it's like, you're just not supposed to criticize any of these folks.

You're not supposed to criticize others. You're not supposed to...you know, that's somehow mean to tell people the truth, and this is an issue that,

I mean, the moment we die, it is absolutely too late then to say, oh, well,

I should have believed. That's why this is so important now. This is a most important message, because if we don't get right with God before we leave this planet, it is too late, and that should concern people.

Oh, yeah. I want to go back to the other point, I think, why people are false

Christians, false professions, but what you just touched on is important, is how many times does someone preach or share the gospel, and that person dies that night, or dies the next day?

God even shows mercy, and He's good, and He says, here, here's the gospel, and they still reject it, and then they're lost for all eternity.

Yeah, because eternity is a really long time to be wrong, right? It's true, yeah, but going back to your other thing,

I think the other thing with self -deceived people who profess

Christ but are not in Christ, you have a lot of people around them affirming their false conversion.

So you have no one who wants to really dive deep into someone's life. Oh, yeah, Johnny's a

Christian. I've grown up with him. Yeah, and hey, oh, yeah, you're struggling a little bit. You're good.

You walked the aisle. You prayed the prayer. I was there at your baptism. No one wants to really tell people the truth.

I mean, I'll even tell you a story. When I met my wife, she was lost, so she wasn't saved, and when we met,

I shared my testimony with her. I shared the gospel with her, and she asked me, do you think I'm a Christian?

She was claiming to be one. I said no, and she...

Just point straight out like that, huh? Yeah, that's what I expect of you. She was a little...

She likes to say she wasn't super upset, but I mean, I remember her being a tiny bit upset, but God did a work in her by me telling her the truth instead of going, oh, yeah, yeah, no, you're good.

Like, just like, let's all be pleasant and nice and stuff. Well, the Apostle Paul wasn't pleasant and nice. He called out everyone.

You know, he called people, the Judaizers. He called out the Pharisees. You know, he said, you're gonna die on your sins.

Well, what is more important for your wife to be saved and have eternal life, or, you know, make sure her feelings aren't hurt?

Right? Because that's what it comes down to. There's so many—I know you do a lot of evangelism—there are so many that are so worried about, oh,

I might hurt someone's feelings. Like, get over that, because they're going to hell when they die, right?

We've got to figure out what's more important here. Yeah, I remember my wife listens to Ben Shapiro sometimes, and I remember she told me he said something on some podcast, go,

I love the Christians because they tell me I'm gonna go to hell. You know, they care about my soul so much that they tell me.

Correct. You know, that's the loving thing to do. If you see someone going into a burning building, you don't just let them go into the burning building.

You say, hey, stop, the building's on fire. You know, that's the loving thing to do. Well, you're right.

I think of what John MacArthur had said regarding Larry King. He'd go on Larry King, and Larry King, before they would record,

I guess, had a question for each Christian that would come on, and he'd ask the

Christians, do you think I'm going to heaven? And the Christians would hem and haw because they don't want to say, they just don't want to say he's going to hell.

He knew what the right answer was, and the reason he kept inviting

MacArthur back is because MacArthur would tell him point -blank that he's going to hell, and he respected that, and he knew if MacArthur is willing to say that, then he's willing to say the truth at other times, and so that becomes the issue that many people, they need to see the reality of what what's more important, you know?

Yeah, exactly, and that, you know, kind of leads in the other thing I think is a problem with these people who will say,

Lord, Lord, and Jesus will say, I never knew you, is that the good works, you know, when you talk to people on the street, well,

I got baptized, I do this, I go to my church, they just plead to all their good works, and they think they're right with God when

I tell them, you know, Christ did the work on the cross for you 2 ,000 years ago.

He fulfilled the law perfectly. He lived a perfect life. You can't do enough to get right with God.

He did that, and He died for your sins, and He paid the sin debt for us, and that's what

I tell, and I mean, so many times it's always about, well, I'm not a murderer.

I didn't do this bad, and I have these good works, and it's like, they're always going towards those good works, and the works that we have as a

Christian should outflow from us, but they're not a part of our salvation. They don't contribute to our salvation.

That's only through Christ alone. Correct. So let's transition.

So you got saved, you were converted. Where's God got you now?

What are you doing ministry -wise? So when

I got saved, the Lord put missions on my heart, and I did a lot of things wrong in the beginning.

Many other guys in missions will tell you that. You get burned by people. You jump too far.

You don't wait on the Lord, but the Lord has been good. He's sustained the ministry. It's called

Vessels for Christ, so we work in Southeast Asia, Central America.

We were doing some work in India, not so much right now. We have a couple other things going on.

Just basically coming alongside local pastors, missionaries, orphanages, providing resources for them, supporting some of them for full -time ministry, whether it be paying for their rental churches, or we just helped a brother in Bangladesh.

It's a total civil war. It's almost to a civil war state, and we helped him secure funds to renew his visas in case they needed to flee the country because they're

Christian, and it's heavily Muslim. We do things like that, but we're just trying to support people that the

Lord connects us to, because a lot of times, I think in the evangelical

American church, we get very comfortable. We don't think about our brothers and sisters overseas, so God just put that on my heart and gave me a gift to adapt well with cultures and talk to them in just any way

I can, teaching, preaching, just any way the Lord can use this ministry.

So that's what I'm doing right now. You do a lot to help other guys around the world, nationals that are trying to share the gospel.

You do a lot of travel to really help out. This is a thing where,

I mean, one of the things I appreciate is the fact that you're not trying to build something big, you're not trying to get a platform, you're not trying to say, oh, let's do something where we get tons—you're going to help the people in need.

This is so different than the way most parachurch ministries work, and you know,

I appreciate because that's how I am with Striving Fraternity. At Striving Fraternity, we're trying to help small churches.

You're not gonna make money that way, you're not gonna be big that way, but that's where the need is. You do a similar thing overseas a lot, you know.

Yeah. So the question is, you know, I want you to speak to the need around the world for help and support and how people, even here in America, would be able to help out to further the work of God around the world.

Well, yeah. So, well, one, yeah, the need is huge. I mean, we have it so good here.

Even in the state of our economy, the dollar is still strong. We have unlimited opportunities.

We could, you know, if we're homeless or poor or whatever, we can go into any church, we can get aid from the government.

That's just not the case overseas, you know. There's so much—a level of corruption that is where the little people don't get anything.

Sometimes the pastors I work with, they will only eat meat like once a month, or they're running from the military from one village to another village in certain countries.

So the need is great, and they're spreading the gospel despite the cost. Like right now, I'm teaching a church in Pakistan on evangelism, and they're very scared, and they have fear because if they get caught preaching or sharing the gospel,

I mean, they'll most likely get killed or disappear, you know. So there's a great cost, but yeah, if anyone wants to help or support this, you can go to vesselsforchrist .org.

We have a donate link there. You can help support the work of the gospel getting out to the nations, to the unreached areas, and help pastors and orphanage and missionaries overseas.

It goes a long way. It really does. But yeah, it's just—we just want to serve and help our brothers and sisters in Christ.

And like you were saying with the parachurch ministry, some of the bigger ones, there's a lot of red tape to go through.

There can be a lot of—the standards can be high in some regard because it can be difficult to—you got to build a relationship with someone, and some people aren't always there to get the— they have the right intentions.

So, you know, we've built relationships with people. We help when needs come up, and we just pray, and we just want to help however we can to advance the kingdom and help our brothers and sisters in Christ as the universal

Church. Is there a way that others would be able to come alongside you, help you out in the ministry?

What do you mean? Well, I mean, first of all, I mean, the easiest way would be if there would be folks that would be able to help donate money to get you to be able to travel more.

Is there a way— how could people do that? Is there a way that you make the needs known so that people can be praying for you?

Can people join you on some of your trips? You know, what kind of things can people do? Yeah, I mean, people—yeah, we're actually—because we moved to South Florida, we're a part of a church now, and I'd like to get some guys to go overseas with me on some of these trips in the future.

I just had a baby too, so it's, you know. So you're not sleeping yet? You got like, you know, at least 18 more years before you start sleeping again?

I know, so—but no, definitely. If people want to reach out and we want to talk, we can talk to them.

And also, yeah, prayer. Prayer is the biggest thing. Just pray for the ministry.

Pray for the guys. Pray for them to remain strong and steadfast. And there's a lot of health issues that happen in those countries, complications with children and things like that that I can think of.

But—and also, you know, I have to actually—I think I have to call a guy this week. I forgot. But yeah, if you'd like me to come out to your church and speak about the ministry,

I've done that a few times and share what's going on. And it can be difficult to connect the people in a local church to somewhere where they've never been, but we try to bridge the gap as best as we can.

But if you come, you'll see it. You'll see it for yourself, for sure. What kind of things can people expect if they were to—if they were to come with you and take a trip?

It's gonna be very uncomfortable. You're gonna be—we're in a lot of hot climates, so you're gonna be sweating a lot, and it's gonna be roll with the punches, and things might change quickly, and you'll be safe.

You know, I've never had any—I've never really had any close calls or anything like that. We work with good pastors who know the region and stuff like that, but it's— you're gonna be out of your element, out of your comfort zone.

But that's a good thing. If more people were to go see the third world countries or see the brothers and sisters in Christ overseas and see what they go through, it would— it would really humble you a lot and really make you give gratitude for the

Lord of where He's placed us and where we live. Yeah, I think that we're very comfortable in our

Christianity here in America where things don't—we don't have to worry too much about so many things yet, and I think that's changing, but I think that it would be—it'd be healthy for people to see what

Christians around the world are really having to deal with. Yeah, and I just thought of this, too.

Yeah, we've also sponsored some pastors to come in to go to conferences. You know, any conference they might want to come visit, so we've helped pay the way and support them to come and get some good teaching and get some refresh—you know, just a change of pace and hear the

Word exposited well and have them maybe meet family they haven't seen or speak in some churches they know of here to raise some support as well.

We've done that as well in the past. We don't realize how much a little bit—I mean, what it costs many of us if we go out and grab a cup of coffee—go to your local coffee place, probably $2 .50

for a cup of coffee, and yet think about the fact that that's just what you may spend to start your day, to get you started, and in many of the countries that Alex is talking about, a daily's day wage is gonna be under $5.

Yeah. So for two cups of coffee, what it costs you for two cups of coffee, that's all that someone's gonna make in a day.

So the reality of how much, well, at least American dollar goes a lot further, but not as far as it used to, but it's something where if we really have a—if we really want to see the work of God go, it's not gonna be through big ministries that are promoting themselves, they come into churches and it's like, oh, here's what we could do for you.

It's gonna be a ministry like what Alex is doing, behind the scenes, very few people know, and yet they're having a big impact because it's more hands -on, it's more personal, and you could be part of it.

Maybe take a trip with Alex and see what it's like. I would welcome that, and to put some things in perspective, two things.

One, like, we're about to give $200 to a pastor in Myanmar for 4 ,000 tracts.

He's able to print out 4 ,000 tracts and pass them out for evangelism in different villages, and then we're about to give $600 for six months rent for a pastor for his church, and then the pastor

I mentioned before in Bangladesh who needed to renew the visas, that was $600. So we're not talking about crazy amounts of money here, but it does go a long way to help these guys, and as far as the ministry goes,

I don't take a salary. We don't have a lot of overhead. I'd say 99 % of the funds goes towards travel expenses or the people we support.

Maybe some funds might go towards some stuff I need here if it's not designated as such, but yeah, we're really trying to get what you guys would give and get it in their hands and help them directly, and I'm an open book, so anything you want to know,

I'll send pictures of, I'll send out ministry updates and send pictures of guys receiving Bibles and guys receiving food, you know, like that one guy, or the thing

I mentioned, they might not only eat meat in one village for like a month at a time. He sent me a picture. They got to eat meat.

It's like an exciting thing. It's crazy for us in this American mindset, not eat meat for a whole month, you know, once a month, but they were so excited, you know, just to have this meal as a church together.

Some Catholics think it's horrifying, but they do it to give up meat for once a week, and they think that's like, they want a pat on the back for that.

Yeah, that's true. That's funny. Of course, what do they do to start off that? I mean, that's, for folks that don't know, that's what

Mardi Gras is down in Louisiana. It's the big drinking binge before you go and start your

Lent. So, yeah, that makes sense. Let me go and send a whole lot because I'm gonna somehow do what?

Work it off afterwards? Where's the heart at, right? That's what it comes down to, those

Catholics and their false gospel. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you coming on.

I appreciate just for folks to be able to get a little bit to know you. You're down there in the free country of Florida, you know, and I know you have, you know, one of the things folks may not know about you is you don't, you're not the type of person to just take someone's word when you hear something bad about another

Christian. You know, you do research, you've actually gone out to places to meet with people in person when you hear, oh, this person's in sin or something.

You do original source type work. You don't just take things at face value, and that's a rare thing nowadays because, unfortunately, a lot of people just, what's ever said on social media, that must be true.

You know, like that meme that was passed around with Abraham Lincoln on it, saying you can't believe everything on the internet, said

Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I didn't see that one. And it's funny because there was one person

I know that was like, yeah, that's true. I'm like, you don't get it. There wasn't an internet with Abraham Lincoln.

He couldn't have said that. Like, you know, but that is the reality for people nowadays. They just, there is no, within Christianity, too, there's no grace, unfortunately, with a lot online.

It's like if we could tear and divide and devour our own, we think that's something we should be praised for, and I really appreciate in your life, you don't do that.

You know, you're pretty careful with it, and I know that because you'll call me and ask me about different matters, different theological issues.

You're dealing with some, you know, Torahites now, which is the term that R .L.

Salzberg, in his book, Torahism, would refer to it as, you know, because it's not just the Hebrew roots, it's expanded into a whole bunch of things, and you're a type that you try and study these things out to help people, and I really appreciate that about you.

Oh, well, thanks, Andrew. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, Proverbs 18 .17 says, the one who states his case first seems right until the other comes and examines him.

So, I want to hear both sides, even if they can be uncomfortable conversations.

I want to go to the primary sources, search out the religions that are false, know what they believe, even visiting.

I visited Kingdom Hall, I visited Doug Wilson's church, I visited Mark Driscoll's church,

Stephen Anderson's church, that could be maybe another. Did you just put Doug Wilson in the same category as Jehovah Witnesses?

I'm just saying, that's a bad place to end, but... Those Christian nationalist guys are gonna come after you after I just said that.

Everyone seems to want to come after me for one reason or another, you know. What can I say?

The point is, I want to look into that, and at the same time,

I'm not like a lot of tribalism are in my camp. I am friends with Christians across broad spectrums, whether it be

Charismatic, Armenian, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian. I noticed that some people, they're in their own little camp, and they rarely get out, but I know that if we have

Christ in us, and we share the Holy Spirit, and we're united as a body, a universal church, we're working against the world.

We're fighting against the world. We should be striving to come together and unify more, and not let our secondary and tertiary issues really hinder that bond as much as it does these days,

I think. Yeah, I think you're right. So I appreciate you coming on and just being able to have this discussion with you.

I hope that folks get a lot out of it. I hope that maybe there's someone here, maybe you're listening, you're saying, you know,

I always thought I was a Christian, but after listening to him describe, you know, after hearing

Alex describe what he went through, realizing maybe you're not a Christian. Well, that's something both

Alex and I would love for you to get right with God now. The reality is that saying a prayer or walking an aisle, raising a hand, does not save you.

What saves us is the work that Jesus did on the cross 2 ,000 years ago, because every one of us, both

Alex and I, and every one of you that is listening to us have this discussion. All of us rightly deserve eternity in a lake of fire, because all of us are guilty of breaking

God's law, and because of that, we would rightly deserve eternity in a lake of fire, but Jesus Christ, God Almighty, who came to earth as a human being, went to the cross as a propitiation for our sin, that we could be set free.

Propitiation means that he satisfied the wrath of God that was required, and so Jesus being an eternal being can pay a fine that would take us forever to pay, because his nature is eternal.

And so when he died on that cross as a substitute for you and I, being a human who never broke the law, and being a

God who is eternal and can pay the fine not only for me, but for each of you, the fact is that we have to stop trusting ourselves as a good person, stop trusting what we call good works, but trust in what

Jesus did on the cross, and that alone to have eternal life. So if this is the first time you really heard that, maybe even go in church all your life, do like Alex did.

Recognize that saying the prayer didn't save you. Doing good deeds, doing things in church doesn't save you, and get right with God.

It's the most important decision you can make. Alex, I'll give you some any closing comments that you would like to make.

No, I'll just, well, thank you for having me on the podcast, but I'll just reiterate what you said. Hebrews 9 27 says, it's a point a man to die once and be judged.

So think about it. Eternity is a long time. Repent while the day is light.

You know, repent. Turn to Christ if you haven't already. It's the only thing we have hope in.