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Who is the next challenger?!
All right, round two. Thank you so much for tuning in to The Apologetic Dog. We're having a little bit of technical difficulties, but that happens from time to time. Just wanna thank you so much for tuning in.
Have a very special episode with The Fishbone. Now, Trey, what do people need to know about The Apologetic Dog?
Well, what you need to know is I'm still not getting it on YouTube. You're not showing up on YouTube.
Oh, no.
I think you gotta fix that one.
Yeah, don't understand.
Dude, I'm not showing up on YouTuber.
Let's see.
No, no, not showing up on YouTube.
Oh, there it is.
We're here.
Well, bam.
Okay, so what was the question?
All right, Trey. So, tell people what they need to know about The Apologetic Dog.
What do you need to know about The Apologetic Dog? Here's what you need to know about The Dog. He is looking for a person in the Church of Christ who will debate him at, what is it, a Calvinist conference or something?
What's it called?
That was the conference last year, Why Calvinism. This year, it will be on sanctification in Tullahoma, Tennessee. So, let's back up a little bit. What's the heart and desire behind The Apologetic Dog ministry?
Look, Songbird's in here. What up, Songbird?
Yeah.
Tell him to answer my phone calls.
He answers them all the time. We talk like three times a day.
I know. I know. He's a busy man, though, making that bread.
He is.
You can help me with my intro for round two. So, the heart behind The Apologetic Dog, Trey, I know it's the heart of every Christian, but 1 Timothy 6, verse 20 says, Oh, Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you.
And so, this is the gospel of grace, where we're guarding it with all of our might. We're guarding it, resting in the sovereignty of God. And so, we are making war against false gospels, false Christs that are trying to creep in unawares and divide from within.
And that verse goes on to say, Trey, avoid irreverent babble. So, that would be pagan philosophy, anything that rivals the knowledge of God. And we avoid pagan philosophy by exposing contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge.
What do you think about that? Have you ever read that verse before?
I've read that. I like that. That's a good one. You know what the parish reform is about?
Tell me.
Christianity, the Bible.
All of the above?
All of the above.
So, that's what we do. So, tell me about it. So, we got an upcoming debate that you are trying to get someone, because they've requested that you find somebody in the Church of Christ who would debate you, live, moderated debate at this conference, right?
And that's what we're looking for?
That's what we're looking for, because the last person that I issued a challenge to, your best friend, Aaron Gallagher, said, I'm good with my podcasting.
Did I tell you? Did I tell you? I know this dude. I know this dude. Better than you.
Oh, you did tell me. Yeah, yeah.
Way better than he thinks I know. Because it was like, there's a lot of them out there. But yeah, I told you, he's not going to debate you. He's not going to do it. He'll probably even do another episode on his show about this podcast as to why he's not and all this other stuff.
But, you know, he's got to get ahead of it. I mean, he's got to protect that. He's got a rep to protect. Didn't they say that on Grease? Grease 2?
I got a rep.
That's what he's got to do. So, you know, and he's not going to show up at some conference with a bunch of smart dudes who know the scriptures and reform theology. I'm telling you, the bad thing is, like for, put it this way.
When they're talking to a typical Baptist, like a Southern Baptist, your typical American Southern Baptist, that's like low-hanging fruit for them, right? But when you run up on a Reformed Baptist, they're just like, what?
It doesn't even make sense. They can't wrap their mind around it. So, you know, from their perspective and what they understand scriptures to be saying. So, I just don't, I told you, he wasn't going to do it.
He's not going to do it. He'll never do it. He wants to sit at GBN or whatever it is with all of his other Church of Christ buddies and just do it there. And he says that, you know, he was not going to, that somehow I said he was a liar or something.
Well, he did lie. If you take context, but when you don't worry about context, then you can change it and make it anything else. And I've got all that stuff I could show you. But at the end of the day, he wanted to talk about all of these topics, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints.
And I asked him if he was going to do it and he said he would, but he didn't. But he did say he had some things coming up so he couldn't do it. So, I mean, I'm thinking like six months later, if you can't find an hour in six months and I don't hear from you, I'm thinking maybe you're not going to do it.
I could find an hour in six months, but whatever, it doesn't matter. But he's not going to sit down and do it with a dog who goes into a dungeon and watches every one of his videos and listens to everything he's ever said and actually takes the time to sit down to think of different arguments and different questions to ask him and all these things.
He's not going to do that. God love him. He's not going to do it. But so who do you want next?
He's out.
Gallagher's out. Not everybody's called to debate or feels like they're equipped to. Some people like their little echo chambers and their podcast rooms. And you know what? That's fine. But I will say I'm probably done listening to Gallagher.
People send me his stuff all the time. I just, you know what? I gave him a legitimate opportunity to debate me. I mean, it's a long time out. It would have been great. But hey, we move on to the next one.
And so as we are talking about Debate Straight, me and you have something on the horizon. Did you forget about this?
Yes.
I didn't forget about it, but I'm kind of looking forward to it. I think it's fun. I'm going to handle this one like I did with my conversations with Aaron. No prep. Sit down. What are we talking about?
I think the only thing we got to prep on is how long are you going to talk and how long am I going to talk? Like if it's like a two-minute answer, I go a minute, you go a minute. Something like that?
No.
I think you got first at bats and then I'll bat cleanup. So you just take as long as you need. And then when you're like, Jeremiah, I'm done, then I'll swoop in.
There you go.
I love it.
That's the prep. We're prepped out, right?
This debate will be hosted by Marlon Wilson at The Gospel Truth. Marlon!
I love Marlon. I love Marlon. But you know the thing about Marlon, Jeremiah, right? You know he just does it for the money.
Oh, Marlon. Marlon, didn't somebody else accuse you, Marlon?
Marlon just does it. The only reason Marlon does this channel is for those $2 Super Chats. That's what T .T. said, right?
I have to bring everybody up to speed. So I remember I was listening to Travis Thomas. Truth, broof! And what really stinks was Travis was slamming Marlon hard for having Super Chats and them having priority.
And I had to call up Marlon and be like, hey, you need to listen to Travis. Marlon's laughing in the chat. He remembers. And Marlon called in live. Hot! And rightly so. I mean, the dude was just being drugged through the mud.
And what was funny was watching Travis just be like, uh, um, um.
I kind of miss the days, Trey, when we interacted with old T .T.
I know. We can, you know, that's always free game. I mean, we can always jump into that.
That.
Gar hole again whenever you want. Listen, I love this. What is the debate challenge? Johnny Robertson, Caleb Robertson, Paul Mays, or old T .T.? I'm saying old T .T.'s out. Paul Mays. God love him. Paul Mays loves some Paul Mays.
I know.
I'm sure your ringtone is one of Paul Mays' songs.
Oh, don't tempt me. Don't tempt me to sing something.
I've never heard Paul Mays before. What does he sound like, Trey?
Stop it.
You are the meanest person I know. You know what you are? You're Zach from Saved by the Bell. You're the one who always pushes the buttons and gets everybody else in trouble. And you come off as the good guy when really you're the wizard behind the curtain making everything happen.
You're way older than me. I never watched Saved by the Bell. I did watch Boy Meets World, though.
I have no clue about that, man. So, Johnny Robertson, I've had a lot of conversations and stuff with old Johnny Ringo Robertson. I'll tell you what. If you called out Johnny Robertson, I would like to say, Johnny, it looks like somebody.
Just walked over your grave. Who was that?
Tombstone.
Doc Holliday said, Johnny Ringo, it looks like somebody.
Just walked over your grave.
I'll be your huckleberry.
You look like somebody just walked over your grave. Let's call out Johnny Robertson.
Is that who it is?
No, Johnny.
TT, don't do that.
Now, Johnny's the dad to Caleb.
If TT went to this conference to debate you live, he'd be throwing chairs at people in the audience. He'd be getting so mad at them. Plus, I don't think they'll let him bring his spaceship there.
Does he still do his little setup in a spaceship?
I don't know.
I guess.
I hadn't watched it in a long time.
I was blocked off.
Stacy Brown's in here. Love Stacy Brown.
What up, Stacy? Hey, let's get Stacy. Thanks for tuning in.
Stacy Brown's awesome, dude. Love that dude.
We've had many years together. We could tell you some stories of some visits we've had at people's houses before. No, I'm not. Stacy, I'm not going to do it. But do you remember that? Never mind. I'm not even doing that one.
We'll talk later, Stacy. But we went to a guy's house, and just so Stacy knows which one I'm talking about, he said that he never sinned anymore. And the wife started laughing at him.
She's like, I live with you.
It got weird really quick. That was a fun one. Me and Stacy visited a Mormon church one time. But we were invited. I was invited because the elders asked me to come because they couldn't answer some questions, but they said, come to church, and our leaders will ask.
You can ask them, and they'll answer your questions. So me and Stacy go, and we sit in the back row. We sit there literally. We go in the very back, the back door, walk in, sit down, and we see all these guys up front talking, whispering, and then three of them get down.
They go out that door, walk down the hallway, open the door where we're sitting right beside, because we're in the very back closest to the door. They go, hey, come here, come here, come here.
Yeah, what's up? I said, you got to go.
Got to go?
Why?
You have to leave now. What do we do?
You have to leave.
Okay.
So that was, we got more stories. But anyway, that's a different topic for another day.
I want to ask you, so going back to the debate that we have on Marlon's channel, I believe it's August 23rd. Now, all this graphic says is water baptism is necessary. Do you remember what water baptism meant?
Marlon, that was not the actual proposition.
It's not the whole proposition.
It's not the whole proposition. What they agreed to, and they said they wanted to debate, was water baptism is necessary to remove all of your sins past, present, and future. That is the actual proposition.
Yeah, and so we won't tell everyone the problems with that now, but just think about what they're trying to say. The moment when you contact the blood in the watery graves of baptism, every single sin you have committed or will commit is paid for in full.
Paid for.
Just want to let that sit for a little bit. That's what they have to defend, Trey. What are we going to do?
It's so, like, I don't, they can't. They can't defend that.
I got your back. I got your back.
But Paul Mays is winning this. Paul Mays is winning the poll right now. This is hilarious. We got Spencer Rice, just gave you five bucks. You're doing this for the money, aren't you, Jeremiah?
I am.
I'm just a jabroni over here.
You're making so much money. Just hand over fist on this podcast right here. You've just made $5.
Wow.
I got to read it, too. Spencer Rice says, I have it on very good authority that Jeremiah's, he's a jabroni. Who knows what that means.
I don't know what a jabroni is.
But I'll be a jabroni. I ain't scared.
We'll do you a huckleberry.
Hey, Leanne Ferguson, she's in the building, too. Thanks so much for joining. And Sparky. Sparky.
Hey, don't forget, this is coming up, everybody. We've not forgot. We're going to be doing a breakdown of this. This is written by a guy who's a Church of Christ preacher in my area, who I've reached out to to talk to just to ask him questions.
And no, he doesn't want to answer any questions. And so I offered to just sit down just with all of his elders, whatever, go to somebody's house and just simply ask questions, not debate, not even tell him what I think, but just ask questions about what he wrote.
And I will tell you this. If I ever wrote a book, dog, and somebody, especially locally, because I'm not like John Grisham.
Asked you about it.
You know what I'm saying? I'm not some great author. And so if I wrote a book and somebody in my local area said, hey, man, I got some questions about this, I'd be like, dude, come on, let's talk. So we'll break it down.
It'll be fun. But Paul Mays is still in the room here.
Yeah, I wish I knew what Paul Mays sounded like.
I'm not doing it, but I'm not doing it.
Holy Spirit, activate.
It's not a sing-off. It's a debate. And Eric Gallagher's out completely.
I'm kind of sad about that one, Trey. But you told me. You told me that he was not about it, and I said, what about it?
No, he ain't about it. Which is funny when, you know, I told him one of the deals. I forget, one of the episodes me and you did, I mentioned that somebody that he knew, well, not somebody, but maybe a person or maybe a couple or maybe something, right, is leaving the Church of Christ.
And from those talks that we had, and these people knew him very well, and that really bothered him. So he texted me, who is it? And I'm like, well, tell me who, you know, this text message I have, you know, so tell me who that was.
And so he had no problem spilling the beans because he wanted to know who it was. So I still didn't tell him. I just said, look, here it is. I'm not going to tell you the people. Well, they're scared of the repercussions.
That's what they're dealing with right now, you know. They don't want to. It's just hard when you lose all your friends and family and whatever the case is, close friends, by leaving. So anyway. Oh, Aaron, I wish he would.
I really wish he would. I just knew he wouldn't, you know.
Yeah, Leanne seems a little disappointed. She said, Aaron refused? Hey, I tried for two weeks, Leanne. I tried for two weeks. I offered to talk with Aaron on the road. Sent him messages, told him, hey, love to make this happen.
I'm even willing to tweak the proposition a little bit. And crickets.
How about his buddy, Don Preston, who came to my office, by the way?
Don Preston?
Yeah, he lied. He said that he wanted me to come to this. He was preaching somewhere locally, and he wanted me to come hear him teach. And I was like, well, what are you teaching on? He said, First John, we're talking on security of your salvation.
I said, man, you can't do that. You can't teach people that they're secure in their salvation. He said, sure I can. I said, no, it's going to be basically, you know, if you stay faithful, if you keep doing this, if you keep doing that, then you're secure in yourself, not secure in Christ.
No, no, no, no, no, right? And he said, but look, I want you to come, because afterwards, I want to ask you questions, and I want you to ask me questions. And I said, look, I'll tell you what. If you tell everybody you invited me, and I'm not there to pick a fight, because, listen, I'll get accused.
If I show up at a Church of Christ around here, whoo, right?
So I said, if you tell everybody.
You don't know what they believe?
Yeah, I have no clue.
I said, if you tell everybody that you invited me, and you want it, like, I'll do it. And so I brought our associate pastor with us, because he was in this whole conversation with us. By the way, Don told him that he was going to go to hell, but he never shared the gospel with him.
Interesting.
But so we go, and we went. Why? Because he wanted me to ask questions afterwards, and he wanted to ask me questions afterwards. And afterwards, we sat there for, like, ten minutes. I'm like, it's all over with.
You know what I'm saying? Everybody's gone, leaving. And so I go up to him afterwards. I say, hey, I thought you wanted to talk and ask questions. He goes, oh, no, I got dinner plans. I got to run. I got your number, though.
I'll call you sometime. I'm like, you little dog, right? But regardless, what if Aaron and Don, what if Aaron, would you allow Aaron to bring Don with him, and maybe Aaron and Don both could debate you?
I would do it. In a heartbeat train.
But guess what? Aaron still won't do it. Don would probably do it.
Don, well, who knows? Well, we're getting closer to revealing who's next, the next bullet in the chamber. So we have to maybe remember Don, who you're talking about. Yeah, if you're actually live on YouTube, I have a side poll.
Who is the debate challenge for? Is it Johnny Robertson, Caleb Robertson, Paul Mays, or everyone's favorite Church of Christ, Ol' T .T.? Hey, he's got some votes out there, too, by the way.
Nobody's voting for T .T.
I wish in a different life we could have been friends.
Yes, Don Blackwell, Orange. Okie, yes. That's what I mean, Don Blackwell.
Who did I say?
Did I say Don?
You said the full preterist, Don Preston. I was shocked when you said that. I was like, man.
Don Preston is the one who backed out of the debate with me and Dr. Frost because he said I was a loose cannon. And I said I am a cannon. I'm just not loose. Yeah, he backed out of that one, Ol' Don Preston, the full preterist.
I mean, good night, Orange Okie. Oh, but Orange Okie is a full preterist.
Oh, yeah. And a fan of the Apologetic Dog, just maybe a fan from afar, but I'm convinced at this point Orange Okie's subscribed.
Yeah, he's subscribed.
He's probably a super chatter.
That'd be great. I'd take it. I'd take a super chat from a full preterist. So, Trey, as we begin to transition, I just want everybody.
Orange Okie just said, ha-ha, Don would not back out of a debate. Did Don Preston back out of the debate with me and Dr. Frost?
Oh, yeah. I mean, message Don Preston. He'll talk about how he didn't like who the people were involved. And you are a partial preterist post-millennial with Sam Frost that is a millennial idealist, and that's what the criteria has been set for a long time.
Finally got it. We were going to host this in person, and Don said, no thanks.
And let me go ahead and tell everybody why. Don Preston and Michael Sullivan. Is that right?
Yep. Yep.
Backed out of the debate.
Your granddaddy.
But when we were talking, I said to them, I said that they would probably try to pin me and Frost against each other because we're amial and a partial preterist, post-millennial partial preterist, historical orthodox preterist, and they'll try to pin everybody in the audience against that and try to say, look, they can't even agree, right?
And I said, but let me tell you what. If you do that, either one of you, you do that, I promise you this is what's going to happen. I'm going to turn this debate upside down, and I'm going to show everybody that y 'all can't even agree on how to get on the dead gum bus because one of you are a Baptist and another one's a Church of Christer, and if you want to do that, let's go.
And that's when they said, oh, we don't want to do that.
He's a loose cannon.
I'm like, loose cannon?
Like, no.
I'm just saying, like, if you try to do that, then this is what I'm going to do. I'm just telling you right now. And then we'll change the whole debate upside down, Bob. And that's when they said, no, we're not.
We're out.
Hey, you got some support out there. You got hashtag Dat Postmill with Brandon. What's up, Brandon?
You know, Brandon, at a boy. Brandon, I don't know you, but we should know each other because you are right. And that's one thing the dog we'll tell you the dog. You know, when I met the dog, you know what he was?
Can I tell everybody? This dude was a pre-mill dispy.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I said, dog, you're way too smart. You're way too smart to be a pre-mill dispy. He said, I love my wifey. And so I was like, so at least, listen, Brandon, at least we got him closer, right? And so, you know, every time you leave pre-mill dispy, you're going to stop in the all-mill parking lot and just sit there and go, ah.
It's a little rainy in that parking lot.
And so he'll just sit there for a while. But, look, hey, Brandon, don't you worry. Fish Daddy got him. He's coming. He'll be full. He'll believe that Christ is actually a conquering king one day. He'll really believe that Christ is actually a conquering king.
You know?
The gospel is that powerful. But I love him anyway.
You need to get to know Brandon. Brandon is an awesome brother. So as we are transitioning, I just want to point out this awesome sign in my background, how I love my wifey. But just know that she put that there, letting me know, hey, don't forget about me.
So she's the babe of all babes. Thank you so much. And, Trey, I was pointing at the Johnny Mac commentary. This was why I was pre-mill dispy. So, yeah, it took me a number of years to kind of shake that off, understanding covenant theology.
And to me, that's where the bread and butter is at, is covenant theology. And that really shines everything in a new light. And so I just want to remind everybody that if you are new to The Apologetic Dog, please like, share, subscribe.
When you support the ministry in that way, this really kind of helps circulate the content throughout YouTube, throughout social media. If you've ever benefited from this content, that really helps me out if you would please like, subscribe, and share.
So I don't know if you recognize this shadowy figure, Trey, but since Aaron Gallagher, are y 'all related? I think y 'all are cousins. You called it. You called it, you and Aaron. Since he would not debate me, we have to issue another debate challenge.
That shadow right there is not Paul Reyes.
What does he sound like again?
Because this guy right here is wearing a coat it looks like, but Paul wears overalls.
All right. If you've not actually put in a vote to the poll, do it. We only have 14 votes. I think y 'all are going to be very surprised who we got lined up here. But before we show who this is, the conference is on sanctification.
So essentially this debate is going to center around sanctification, and we'll get into some potential debate propositions. But, Trey, listen to me. I'm willing to debate on baptism if that's what it takes.
Just so you know. Tim Tamp, one time I think he said that he felt like I was the CEO of baptism debates. I was like, I'll take that. Thank you so much. All right, Trey, you ready? Any final guesses? What did you vote in the side chat?
I can tell you right now by the part of the hair and the coat, this probably ain't going to happen either. But go ahead and tell the world who you want.
Johnny!
Johnny Ringo. It looks like somebody just walked into your grave. Johnny Ringo.
So, Trey, I don't know Johnny.
I've not watched any of their content. Johnny Ringo is like an older TT. Just fiery, son.
Fiery.
So, Johnny Ringo reached out to me a long time ago after the Cultish show, and Cultish offered to fly Johnny Ringo out to Arizona, put Johnny Ringo in a hotel, feed Johnny Ringo, and moderate a debate between me and Johnny Ringo.
But Johnny Ringo said no. He didn't want to do that. And he still goes off on, I'm sure, I don't know, I don't watch the stuff, but he went off on me for a long time. Durbin, he goes off on Jeff Durbin and Jeremiah and all the Cultish, all the Apologia stuff.
He really doesn't like them. And he sent one of his dudes, he had a dude over there who went in Arizona and then got recruited by Johnny Ringo over to his place in Virginia. But that guy, and I talked to him a lot, a lot of other guys talked to him, but he ended up leaving Johnny Ringo, thank God.
And he reached out to us. Pretty cool. And it was like, you wouldn't think, this is a dude who you thought would never change. I mean, he was like a little, just like Johnny Ringo, right? And T .T. But God has changed his heart in a lot of areas, and so he's gone from there.
But Johnny Ringo, will he do it? Well, here's what I would say. I think he probably regrets not doing it with me on Apologia and taking that nice flight and staying in a nice hotel and eating nice food and not doing it on their platform.
But I think maybe he might, just because he doesn't want to be shown up again, that he wouldn't do it, because Johnny Ringo thinks he's the guy. And I got a lot of stuff, and I can even show you a lot of emails from Johnny, like 50 of them, I think, or close to 50.
But Fergie makes a good point here.
She says,.
Johnny Robertson's youngest son, not Caleb, may debate. Like, you know, I don't know. I don't know if Johnny will or won't. I think he might feel like he's backed into a corner bite because he's already said no going on to Apologia's platform.
I mean, that's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people watching. He said no to that, so maybe he might do this one, because I do have an email from Johnny. And here is the thing with legalism. You know how you fight legalism, Jeremiah?
You fight legalism with legalism.
Mm.
That's how Jesus did it. And so here's an email from Johnny. November 23rd, 2021. Trey, I assume you know I declined Jeremiah's invitation to appear on Cultish with you. I have never accepted the form of doctrine you say you were.
You were in for 18 years in the Church of Christ, you know. I've already let Jeremiah know that I'm interested in some venue. I am interested in some venue that can help the confused people in this two-state area.
I told you I'm about local people that I see here.
Guess what?
Guess what Virginia is connected to? Tennessee.
What? Oh!
That's a two-state area.
So he's kind of close by.
Well, I mean, I think it's like seven and a half hours away, but he says he's interested in the confused people of a two-state area. Virginia is connected to Tennessee.
That's two states.
Virginia's a state. Tennessee's a state. He's concerned about those confused people there. So maybe if he's a man of his word, he'll do it. But I doubt it.
So has he done debates before, Johnny Robertson?
I don't know. I mean, I know you can go to his show, his podcast. I mean, he does like a local TV deal station, and he reached out to me years ago. But he's, again, he wouldn't define the word faith.
Really?
He just wouldn't define it.
Not in front of a crowd?
Let me read you something. He said, I asked him, I said, look, can you just give me the definition of faith? And I gave him, I said, just pick one. I gave him Greek lexicons. I gave him the Greek definitions.
I gave him dictionary .com, Webster's Dictionary. I said, just pick one. What definition are you good with? I said, basically, if you have any, just tell me, what's the definition of faith? And he says, I'm giving you Bible, and you want to show me the dictionary?
The Bible's written with words, Johnny, and those words have meaning. So I need to know what those meanings are. The Bible's not a dictionary, but there's words in that Bible. So I'm going to need to know what the meaning of those words are, right?
And so he's just like Aaron Gallagher. He's just like all the other ones in the Church of Christ. They will not define the word faith unless you define it their way, which means baptism as well. But no dictionary.
It's like telling your kid, hey, son, just have faith in me. And you ask the kid, and the mom comes up to the kid and says, little Johnny, no pun intended, Johnny. That little Johnny, did you hear your dad, what he wanted you to do?
He's like, oh, yeah, daddy wants me to get baptized in him. Because he said, put my faith in him. That means get baptized. It's just like, what? No, nobody ever thinks that because that's not the definition, and they know it.
But, yeah, so, but I mean you are in a two-state area. You're in Tennessee. It's connected to Virginia. Maybe if he's a man of his word, he'll do it, but I don't think he will still. But I got a proposition for you, apologetic dog.
Aaron, Don Blackwell, and Johnny Ringo. Three against one.
That's right. You already know. I ain't scared. I just want one of these guys to say yes to the debate challenge, and if they need somebody to hold their hand and do it, then that's fine with me. I don't care.
You know, it's just like, is it really this hard? Is it really this hard to get one of these guys?
Let me tell you what the whole debate is going to be. I'm going to try to get them to define their terms, and they're just probably not going to do it. I will give credit to Mike Hysaw for attempting to give some definition.
We only talked about one definition for baptized, and he didn't like me grounding it in the Old Testament. I'm like, hey, these words meant something to Jews, and he's just kind of like, but that goes against my tradition.
Right.
Yeah, so maybe Don.
How about that?
Add Michael to it. Or how about Mike's son, Jake the Snake? Jake the Snake.
That is so funny.
Don, Johnny Ringo, and Aaron. They get five on one.
I may have to ask Mike if he'll come out if I can't get some of these other guys. I want to give some of the hard right-wing guys a chance to debate me because there's a whole slew of them that are different, and they differ with each other on major doctrines.
And so I debated Mike, and I really enjoyed that. We for sure have to do more debates in the future. I'm really wanting to get one of those hard right-wing, Trey.
That's Johnny Ringo, bro. Johnny Ringo is right of wrong. Can you pull up Carl Henry's remark real quick?
Before I do. When you say that Johnny Robertson was like old T .T., is it like old T .T. times 10 or something?
Yeah, because he's just older, and he's just more angry. He's more angry than T .T.
Okay, let's see.
Old Carl.
Trey just misrepresented us again. Faith is nor defined as baptism. He meant not. Faith is not defined as baptism.
That's my point. That's my point, Carl.
So when you say that you're saved by faith, you don't really believe that, right? That's what you would have to say.
Well, the thing, Carl, even Mike Hysall said that faith includes baptism. I mean, Carl's trying to do the shell game because they think faith is faithfulness that's obedient to a list of commands like baptism.
And faith is a synecdoche for all. I mean, like we know the game. You know what I mean? So when he says that we're misrepresenting, I want Church of Christ to see what he's saying because we do know the lingo.
Now look what he said. Hey, Jeremiah, you wasn't planning out for you with Mike.
What?
Wasn't panning out for you with Mike, BDAG.
So who was saying that, Carl? You're still going to use BDAG, Jeremiah? Wasn't planning out for you with Mike.
Wasn't panning out for you.
BDAG gives the perfect definition for baptism is to be immersed in water and signifies the forgiveness of sins or signifies a relationship, a ceremonial rite. And what I was able to show to Mike, and a number of people have told me that they could not believe that he was trying to go deeper into sacrament and how Lutherans understood sacrament.
Because even the Lutherans would say, well, of course we have our bias with how we understand sacrament and what it means at a ceremony signifies forgiveness of sins. You don't get the Lutheran bias for the word sacrament because you have to build your case.
And so that's why I'm able to appeal to the Bayer definition. And then as we're seeing how the lexicographers are interpreting that verse, well, that's up for debate, right? Because we understand that is their commentary of how that definition is being used.
So to me, it was great because Mike is not Lutheran. And so it's going to be easy to expose his double standard. And what's funny, and I don't think Carl's thought about this either, but Lutherans believe in justification by faith alone.
So, I mean, they're on my side of the debate. And Lutherans are going to look at the word baptizo, and they're going to interpret that as sprinkling. So I'm just saying, you know, Mike spent all of his time in our debate resting on the Lutheran interpretation of what the definition is.
And I'm like, well, that just undercuts your position, too, because you would deny that Lutherans are saved and they have the right interpretation of Scripture. So, no, BDAG's excellent. BDAG's not infallible.
I want to bring up BDAG again. It says, in our literature only in ritual or ceremonial use. Number one definition, wash ceremonially for purpose of purification. Number two, to use water in a rite for a purpose for renewing or establishing a relationship.
The transliteration baptize signifies the ceremonial character. The New Testament narratives record such cleansing, dedicatory cleansing. It's all a Christian sacrament of initiation. It's a sacrament.
And so, of course, we're good with BDAG. Why would we not be with that? That's our whole point. Sorry, Carl.
That's OK. Hey, Chad, the trucker from TikTok world.
A sign that does something. No signs point to something. Hey, Carl, while you're driving down the interstate and you see a McDonald's sign, do you get out of your truck and go hug the sign? Or do you go inside the building that it signifies?
It says, hey, there's hamburgers inside there. You don't pull into McDonald's.
How do you know he goes to McDonald's?
Or Wendy's, Burger King. You don't go to the sign. The sign doesn't do anything but points to the real thing. Inside that building, you can get your tummy full. And so that's what the signs never do anything.
Signs point to the true reality.
Good point. Hey, Trey, I have a backup plan. If Johnny isn't about that life, OK? You want to know what my backup plan is? This debate challenge isn't just merely for Johnny, but for Caleb. What do you think about that?
Oh, wow. You just put Johnny in a bad corner. Because what if Johnny said no and Caleb said yes? Then I would have to ask, really, seriously, who's your daddy?
Right?
You're telling me. Johnny says no and the son says yes?
That's a pretty good move. You just pushed Johnny Ringo in a corner, Jeremiah. I couldn't imagine me saying no to a debate on God's Word that I felt very convicted on. And me saying no and knowing that my son will say yes.
Because, listen, my son right now, Camp, would say yes. But he doesn't care. Like, yep, he'll be there. And so I would have to be like, OK, I know Camp's going to say yes.
So I have to say yes.
I can't say no and let him do it.
I'm the daddy.
I can't let him be the daddy.
So that's what I would. Johnny, looks like somebody just walked over your grave. That's what Doc Holliday says.
Trey, I've not listened to any of these guys. I just want to give the people what they want. And so they've been saying the Robertsons. And so Johnny's always kind of been first. But Caleb might be closer my age.
I think it would be really good. Gavin James.
He makes a good point, Gavin. Words are defined by context. Well, actually, not. The words are defined by their definitions. But the context will tell you what part of that definition. Like how many, like a bat, right?
The bat flew over the plate. What does that mean? Well, it could mean a lot of things. What is the context? Is it a baseball game where the bat flew over home plate? Were you out picnicking at night and a bat flew over your plate of food?
There's different, you know, ranges of a word. But, I mean, I'm good with that. Words are defined by context. I mean, you would know what range of the word you're looking at by the context.
Go ahead.
Yeah, that's good. And we believe that there is a baptism not made with human hands and therefore is not a ceremony. And, you know, being Reformed Baptists, we talk about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, how he regenerates a dead sinner's heart and gives them a heart of flesh.
And so, yes, context is everything. But we also believe in the grammatical historical method of interpretation. And so God has preserved his word in time. And so we can't import our definition of a word today back into the Scriptures.
That's why we look at these lexicons to see how these words were used in the century and the time that they were meant to be understood. And so, yeah, when we ask for definitions, we're saying, what's the rules here?
How can we understand this word? And, yes, Scripture is always our ultimate authority in how that bears out. And so we love definitions. We love context. Context is king. So, Trey, this is kind of my thought.
This debate challenge goes to Johnny, Caleb. I wish they would think about it. And you're saying that where they're from is actually not too far from Tullahoma, Tennessee.
I looked it up. It's like seven hours and 40 minutes. But here's the deal. I got the email that Johnny Ringo is concerned about the confused people in these two states where he's at. Well, Tennessee is connected to Virginia.
That's two states, Tennessee, Virginia. So hopefully he'll do it. I mean, I think, man, honestly, I would have to do it now. If I was Johnny Ringo and you said, look, I want to debate you, and I'd be like, oh, my goodness, I don't want to debate you.
I don't want to debate you. But then you brought up my son. If you don't do it, I'm going to ask your son. Well, I know my son would do it. So I'll do it. I don't even want to give my son the opportunity.
No, I'll do it.
I'll do it. We'll see.
They might both say no. Okay, if they don't do it, if Johnny says no and Caleb says no, would you let Johnny and Caleb?
Oh, yeah, whatever they need. That's how I see it.
How about Aaron? Don Blackwell? Johnny Ringo? Caleb?
Did you just have balloons?
No, I don't know how that happened. But who's the other one? Don? Just get Paul Mays in there. He can sing while they're doing it. He can sing.
Well, Tim Tant. Yeah, for real. You need to define that term. Tim Tant with Conversations with Christian says, I'll just have to call their show and ask them about the challenge. Yes, I was going to say, if anybody has any kind of connections to the Robertsons, send them this link.
Like I said, this actually might be a good transition because there's a little bit of groundwork that we need to lay to inform the Robertson clan, whoever. I mean, we got to get this show on the road.
And so we don't have too long because this conference is needing to take way. And so, Trey, I want to go over a little bit of some of the information that I want them to know about so they can think on it, okay?
And so this is a debate that's going to be centered around sanctification.
Because the conference is geared around sanctification. I believe the theme is called war. It's the flesh versus the spirit. And so with that, the Church of Christ, there's a lot in Tennessee. That's why we're really wanting to use this platform to evangelize the Church of Christ and hopefully draw a crowd.
But we have a different understanding of God. We have a different anthropology. And so Church of Christ believe someone who's regenerate, someone who's justified and has their past sins washed away, they believe they can wholesale walk away from the faith and say, you know what, I know I was born again, but I'm going to be unborn again.
I made that decision. I can walk away. Yeah, God banged the gavel and said that I was justified. You know what? God wasn't serious. He can actually overturn that sentence. Okay, that's your theology. I can't see that in Scripture.
But I want us to talk about sanctification. And so some of the ideas that I have about a proposition is can a believer lose their sanctification? Obviously, if we went with this proposition, I would be taking the negative because who the sun sets free, they are free indeed.
And so a believer's life is one of sanctification, right? And it can't be lost because we're in the newer, better covenant in which the Holy Spirit permanently dwells and we have the imputed perfect righteousness of Christ.
Of course we can't lose it. This is the work of the triune God. So that's something. That's an idea. But let's say Johnny or Caleb say, no, no, no, why don't you defend something, Mr. Apologetic Dog? Why don't you get in the hot seat?
What about God will complete, cannot fail, sanctification in a believer? I'll defend that one. What do you think about that one, Trey?
I like it. But, you know, I see here, for one, Jason Henson has a question about Acts 10, 47 to 48. But Everlasting Life says, which I was about to say this, and I was looking at the chat. I don't think Johnny Robertson thinks that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer, just like Aaron Gallagher doesn't believe that either.
I don't think Aaron Gallagher believes that from a few conversations I've had with him. I don't believe he does. I know, you know, T .T. does not believe that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer.
You talking about Grandma's church?
Yeah, Grandma's church. I don't think Johnny Ringo believes that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer either. And here's the problem with a lot of these guys. Like Aaron, one of the main reasons Aaron won't do it, well, this ain't the main reason, but this is a big reason why Aaron won't do it, because he has a lot of followers from a lot of different sects of the Church of Christ, a lot of different, you know, strands of it.
And he doesn't want those who actually believe that you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you, he doesn't want them to know that he doesn't really believe that. I think that he really doesn't want them to know, because he's going to lose a lot of people, you know.
A lot at stake, huh?
Yeah, so I don't think he would admit. That's why I think one of the reasons he doesn't want to do it. Not the main one, but one of them.
Well, I think this would be a great debate proposition. Like I said, I don't mind doing it. We can debate about baptism if they want to do it, but maybe we could qualify it if water baptism is for a believer's justification or sanctification.
I don't know, something like that. Like I'm wanting to try to be reasonable, and so like if hopefully Caleb and Johnny watch this, I'm not saying these have to be the debate propositions. I just want someone to say, yes, I'm really interested.
What's all of our options? I want to say we're super flexible. I want to start a group chat with me, Jeffrey Rice, who's hosting the whole conference, and just kind of talk about what they would like to debate about.
Maybe it could pertain more to the gospel. We could talk about baptism. Really want to talk about sanctification in some way. So definitely wanting to get some of their input along the way as well.
So Carl Henry has a question. He says, are you willing to go to Virginia, or does he have to come to Arkansas, or video podcast? So this is, again, Jeremiah's debate is in Tullahoma, Tennessee. It's in Tennessee.
So he will go to Tennessee. Jeremiah will have to travel probably further than Johnny will to go to Tullahoma.
Well, this is the thing. I'm good for doing more debates. I'm just looking for someone for this one. So let's get through this one, then I'm willing to travel somewhere else. I almost went and debated Mike Hysaw in Texas at his church, so I would have done that.
Carl says Aaron Gallagher clearly states why he won't debate me or you, Jeremiah.
Whatever. I'm sure he thinks he demolished you, and so we teach the same thing. So his excuse is it'll just be the same. Well, to me, if it's that easy, then why not just kind of continue to expose it for all it is?
Demolish you too. Demolish Jeremiah. Demolish the historical Christian doctrines.
Get after it.
Hey, do you want to answer this question? Do you not have to be baptized in the name of the Lord to be saved? And would you all agree that's water baptism? Acts chapter 2.
I believe you're justified by faith. You don't have to be baptized in water in order to be saved. Saved people, Christians, get baptized. Heathens don't get baptized, come up out of the water, and now they're saved.
So this is something that Christians do. So in Acts chapter 10, Cornelius, I don't know really. I mean, they receive the Holy Spirit before they're baptized. Is that what you're—the part he's referring to?
Yeah, I was thinking about those verses that he's referencing. Let me double-check to make sure I understand.
Acts 10, 47 -48, can anyone withhold water? Look, I want you—Jason Henson, I want you to really pay attention to 47 -48. Seriously. Can anyone withhold water baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?
Did they have the Holy Spirit? The apostles?
And they received it. So look, they received it just as we have, okay? If I go to chapter—let's see here. Look here in the next chapter, in chapter 11, when he's explaining it to the church there, the Jewish people.
In verse 15, he says, As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them. So he's telling them what just happened over here with these Gentiles. The Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning.
And I remember the word of the Lord, how he said, John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us, remember he just said they received the Holy Spirit just as we have.
And now here when he's telling these other people here what happened with the Gentiles, he said, If then God gave the same gift to them, which was the Holy Spirit, as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Not when we were baptized in the Lord Jesus Christ. He said the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit just like we did. When we believed. Not when we got baptized. And there's a Greek word for baptism. There's a Greek word for the word believe.
Just as simple for him to put when we were baptized in the Lord Jesus Christ. But that's not what he says. He says they received the same spirit just as we did when we believed.
Yeah, just to piggyback on what you're saying. Do you not have to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved? Not justified. That's by faith. Clearly the book of Romans tells us, Galatians, later in the book of Acts, clearly those that believe in Christ, they are set free from the law.
They are justified. So, yeah, it's fundamentally wrong to talk about one being saved, past tense justified for the forgiveness of sins, by the means of your working participation in a ceremony. Now, I would say something does happen in baptism.
It sanctifies us. It renews our hearts. It gives us assurance in the promises of God. It's showing us the work that he's already begun in us, and it's displaying our faith to the watching world. But, unfortunately, those that are trusting in Christ and believe, say they are trusting in Christ, but then also are trusting in their efforts in baptism to wash away their sins, well, that is a gospel that cannot save.
If you believe that your participating works of obedience to a list of commands is necessary, well, then you have a divided trust. You're not solely looking to Christ alone. Don't expect us to fall into your words of saying, well, I'm just an unprofitable servant.
I'm just doing all what he commanded. Well, he justified us. Of course we're unprofitable servants. But if you believe that your working participation is necessary for justification, well, then you're trusting in yourself.
You're not trusting in Christ. Now, Trey, they're not going to say that, so we're not saying that that's what they teach. We're saying that's the logical entailment of what they teach. So Gavin can't accuse me of strawman by saying that.
But, no, baptism sanctifies. It renews our hearts. It's showing us the work that God is doing in our life. And to my Lutheran friends out there, we don't believe that baptism is an empty sign and symbol.
No, the Holy Spirit entwels the believer, and the baptizer should be proclaiming the gospel of grace. So it's a spirit-filled baptism. It preaches the gospel, and it's a celebration of all of what God has done in the life of the church.
I want to add to what Carl Henry is saying here.
Do it.
This is the problem when you just know proof text. You don't know the context. You don't know the Bible. You just know your proof text and your arguments, right? So I just explained that the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit.
According to Peter, it's when they believed is when they received the Holy Spirit. So Carl says this right here. Can you put Carl's?
It's just right above that,.
Right above what you just brought up. Bring up Carl's comment.
Got you, fishbone.
Trey got them saved before they learned the gospel. So how they believe if they didn't hear.
Carl, just read the book.
Let me read you a few lines. I'm not going to read you the whole thing, but it's in Acts 11, I mean Acts 10. I'm just going to read you a few lines before it. Like you read the whole thing. They share the whole gospel with them.
And then it says this, but verse 40, but God raised him on the third day. So after he told him about Jesus coming, he's with the Messiah, he was the prophet, one of the prophets talked about, and then he died, was buried.
And then he talks about his resurrection. He says, but God raised him on the third day, made him to appear not all the people, but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
And he commanded us, he commanded Jesus, commanded us, the apostles, to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him, Jesus, all the prophets bear witness.
That's Old Testament that you think doesn't apply to us. All the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. So according to Peter, according to Jesus, everyone who believes in him receives the forgiveness of sins through his name.
And while Peter was standing there, these things, the Holy Spirit fell on them, and the believers, and they received the Holy Spirit, right? And they said they just, they received it just like we did.
You look at the next chapter, he says they received it just like we did when we believed. That's because they believed. Therefore, that's when they received it too. So I don't understand, like, they just say things like, oh, he's got them saved before they ever heard the gospel.
Read just the paragraph before that. Just the paragraph. And so, it's just, it's sad to me, Jeremiah, because the church crisis brainwashes you so much. Can you take it off the screen where it's just me and you here?
And so, the church crisis brainwashes people just in such, like, these few, you know, five or six verses, and they tell you all this stuff, and, like, you don't even read it. You just trust them. Like, it's kind of like when Aaron Gallagher and Don Blackwell say, the word hipotue, to obey, right, doesn't mean anything but to do something.
That's what I mean. What Tray's saying is nowhere in any lexicon. But yet, we bring up 16 lexicons, and we show them. But see, they're just trained to believe these people, to believe what they tell you.
Even though Aaron Gallagher says that Jesus Christ was not fully God when he came to earth, no big deal. Hey, no big deal to them.
Hey, did you notice, he actually took back what he said about. Jews are born into a saving relationship. He had to walk that one back.
Oh, did he?
Aaron did?
Yeah, he did.
Oh, wow, what'd he say? I don't watch his stuff, so what'd he say?
He said, this was in his four-and-a-half-hour review of some of our videos.
And I listened to his junk. I was like, dude, no, I can't listen anymore before I start throwing out emails.
All over the place.
He said he misspoke, and we were right to call him out on it. That's fine. He was saying it with such confidence. I think it took us saying, did y 'all hear that? And obviously, Jesus, John the Baptist, rebuking the Pharisees, saying God could raise up these stones to be physical sons of Abraham.
I think he had to be like, oh yeah, that's probably not right. But you gotta think, when I'm talking about the Pharisee and the tax collector, they want that to be a wayward Jew, someone that was already in a saving relationship.
But you gotta read all that into the text. So, going back to the last thing I wanna bring out here on the information for the Robertsons.
I love Paul Henry.
I do, too. The TikToker Trucker.
I love the TikToker Trucker.
This'll be February 22nd, Trey. So, that's important. And we need an answer in about two weeks or less, please.
Johnny, we do. Let's do it.
Because we got a plan for this conference. So, people, please send this to the Robertsons. Message them, email them this. And I will try to message them on Facebook.
But Caleb and Johnny Ringo Robertson.
You think Phil would debate?
Dang.
That'd be awesome, though. I might try to email him. Can I drop your name?
He doesn't know what an email is. He wouldn't even know what that was.
I'll do it in my pigeon.
Are you cussing me out right now?
What's an email?
Yeah, exactly.
What's up, man?
Well, Trey, thanks for coming on, man. No, Carl don't want that sauce. He doesn't mind trying to constantly remind me. Oh, Jeremiah, you're not actually trying to invite debaters. You're doing these. And I'm like, hey, speak nice about your people over there.
They're equipped.
I saw.
I thought did a good job.
Don Blackwell.
What about Pat Donahue? He might be another one. But I've heard that Pat does not like cross-examination, so that makes me sad.
Who?
Pat?
Pat Donahue. Have you heard of him?
I don't know Pat Donahue. I don't know Pat Donahue. Spencer Rice. Thank you, Spencer Rice. You know Jeremiah. I don't know you, Spencer, but you know Jeremiah. That dude needs to go back to kindergarten and get a spanking for chewing with his mouth open.
He chews.
He's like a caveman when he eats his Taco Bell. Every time I call him, he's ordering Taco Bell, and he's like just smacking. He's like chewing firecrackers in his mouth.
Spencer's on the other side of the world right now.
I'm sad that Jake the Snake is not on here.
Yeah, it's not the same without him.
It's not the same without Jake the Snake.
Who is Jacob Thornton? I've actually seen that name before. This is from Sparky. Is he like a YouTuber with a growing channel? That's actually a good idea.
A girl named channel?
Is that what you said?
No, Jacob Thornton. I'm asking if he is the church of Christ with a growing YouTube channel.
He has a growing YouTube channel.
That's it.
We got a link. Let me check that. She sent a link in the side chat. Let me see if I recognize this guy. This might be the ticket tray if the Robertsons.
Jacob Thornton. I've got a crazy dude who might debate you. He actually would. I'll talk to this guy. Is this guy church of Christ?
Oh, yeah. Sparky is just saying that. If you click his bio, it takes you to his YouTube channel. I think I've seen him before. He's got 21K subs. All right, Sparky. You might be on to something.
Oh, I've seen this guy.
Yeah, he's like a little TT as well.
I think it's his cousin.
This is TT's cousin.
That's awesome.
Well, hey, that's a good suggestion. He had a Q &A TikTok live stream. Water baptism of the purpose.
Listen, if Johnny says no and if Caleb says no, I'm going to tell you the reason Caleb says no. It's because Johnny threatened him to say no. Because Caleb would say yes. But if Caleb says no, don't take out on Caleb.
It's Johnny Ringo. He said, son, you're grounded if you say yes. We're going to say no. We're a team. And so that's if I don't blame Caleb. So hopefully Johnny does. If not, if Johnny's a no, Caleb's a no, because Johnny's going to make him say no, so he doesn't make his dad look bad, then you can ask TT's cousin.
What's his name again?
You're talking about the Jacob Thornton guy?
Yeah, I'm actually interested in that one. So we got a question here from Philip. It says, question, do those who believe water baptism literally saves also believe the bread and grape juice, wine, are literally the body of Christ?
Trey, you don't know what the Church of Christ believe, but what do you think?
No, because they're inconsistent.
Yeah, and I think this is a good point of inconsistency because clearly Jesus prescribes wine, right, with the Lord's Supper. But Church of Christ, don't they pretty much pass out grape juice for their communion?
It was ever since Prohibition when they outlawed alcohol in America. People went to grape juice, and then a lot of people kept the grape juice after Prohibition. But yeah, they don't think that. Plus, many of the Church of Christ, I mean, many, but I mean, there's tons of Southern Baptists that really think that Jesus turned the water into wine, and they've been trying to return the favor ever since and turn the wine back into water and say it wasn't really wine, right?
I appreciate this question because it does seem like if you think the ordinance or sacrament, as BDAG says, we know it comes from the Lutheran bias. It doesn't mean that they're not great lexicographers.
It can give us good insight to church history, but I've tried to remind people that even BDAG, whatever lexical source, there's always going to be some bias that we're allowed to challenge with looking at the context of the Word of God.
But if you think that baptism literally washes away your past sins and literally regenerates your heart and causes you to be born again, then I think this is a good point of just saying, but if you don't think the bread is literally Jesus' flesh and the wine is literally Jesus' blood, it would be inconsistent.
And to your point, the grape juice is not being prescribed. Now, I know we can continue to have that conversation with many people, and I think there's actually liberty in some of those discussions unless your fundamental conviction is we speak where the Bible speaks and we're silent where the Bible's silent.
We don't interpret the Bible, no creed but Christ, and is legalistic to the core. Well, then to me, that's a fantastic point to make because if you're going to have legalism as a standard, then you're going to die by legalism also.
That's why you fight legalism with legalism.
Sorry, I'm getting distracted.
Why is Carl mad at me? What's going on now, Carl? All caps Trey. That's flat out stupid, oven, and sweat. Why is Carl mad at me now?
Hey, he's driving. Be gracious with Carl.
Listen, with the Church of Christ, it doesn't matter what an ex-Church of Christer says, it's going to be wrong and you're going to make them mad.
You don't know what they believe.
I had one of my really close friends, I called him up one time, I said, hey man, why can't we still hang out? Can we not just still hang out? We were like best friends. He said, yeah, when you come back to church, we can be friends again.
I'm like, that's what cults say. That's the problem. If I can come back, we'll be friends again. It's just like, man, so sad.
Carl, what did I say?
Really, what did I say that made you so mad? What is so flat out stupid of an answer? That it's inconsistent? Okay, then maybe you do, Carl. Maybe you do believe it's actually the blood and literally the flesh when you take communion.
Trey, Carl's driving, so maybe he didn't hear us correctly.
He's swerving everywhere. He's so mad at me right now.
And sweat.
Well, Trey, hey, thanks for coming on. I just want to put up this graphic again of, oh, Johnny, but if Johnny isn't down for it, maybe Caleb is.
He won't let Caleb do it, because it'll make him look bad.
Well, I have hope. You did prove me wrong last time with Aaron Gallagher, but I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful.
I know these people. I know their kind.
Hey, I got to believe in something, Trey. Got to have something to hold on to.
Believe in Christ.
Believe the Lord.
Well, I think it would be a good debate with the Robertsons, but if not, Sparky made an excellent point. I might have to look into Jacob Thornton. They do got over 20K subs. This might be right down his alley.
They ain't doing it.
All right, Trey. Do you have any kind of final words as we begin to wrap up?
You know what? After all of this talk, I've made a 180. Paul Mays. Just do Paul Mays, and he can sing his answers to you.
Out of his nose.
That's okay. Do Paul Mays.
I'm voting Paul. I'm getting on here. Where can I vote?
Didn't he rap one song, Speak Where the Bible Speaks?
I want to encourage people. I was on a Church of Christ podcast. I think it's been two nights now. I was able to talk with them about the gospel and about baptism, and they said that they didn't mind if I used that content to upload it.
I'm probably going to upload it to my channel tomorrow, but it lasted over two hours. But it was incredible just to be able to answer a lot of Church of Christ questions from people that seemingly are sincere and have been trained to think one way, and so to hear a completely different paradigm and to hear really good scriptures that challenge, you know, how they've been thinking one way.
Anyway, if you all haven't already seen that, I've posted that on the Exiles page and stuff like that. But, yeah, Trey, I think you would like it too.
I'd like to, if you say they were sincere, I mean there are sincere people in the Church of Christ who are sincerely looking for truth. They're sincerely believing what they believe right now to be true, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I understand that. But they sincerely are wanting truth. And so, man, when you find someone who can sincerely have a serious conversation and be consistent and accept definitions of words because they're wanting to know truth and understand God's word, those are the best people to study with, whatever denomination or whatever they come from.
And there are good people in the Church of Christ. I love them, and I love when I get to share and study with those or just even ask them questions to get them to think about what they're saying. Like, for instance, again, like I just pray.
I wish I could have had the opportunity to ask this guy questions to think about the things that he wrote. And this is why a lot of people in the Church of Christ do not write about salvation. They don't put it on paper because it's so contradictory if you just think about it.
But, I mean, if you're just putting down what you've always believed, and you just, yeah, it makes sense to those who also believe that. But when you pause for a second and think about what you said on one sentence and think about the next sentence and see the complete contradiction there and to see somebody's face go, oh my goodness, I never realized that.
I mean, that's just because now they're thinking for themselves. They're not just regurgitating what they've always heard. So, Jeremiah, you will not debate Mays, Carl Henry said. You will not do it. You won't.
Too scared?
You won't do it. According to Carl. That would be fun.
I would love that.
It'll happen, I'm sure. Trying to go across the full range. That's what I've noticed, Trey, is no matter what Church of Christ person I debate, no one's happy. Oh, you didn't debate this guy. I never said I wouldn't do it, so I'm just trying to.
You're getting destroyed no matter what. But then you tell them, well, there's eight Church of Christ preachers who left the Church of Christ from hearing that. They're like, well, they didn't know what they were talking about.
One's been doing it 44 years. Well, he doesn't know. It's just always like push to the side. No, no, no. And everybody's out to get us. Everybody's against us. But whatevs.
Well, Trey, where can people find some more of your content? This might be some people's first exposure to the Fishbone.
The Parish Reformed Podcast and The Parish of the Redeemer is our church, and the Church of Christers should like that because the parish is a congregation. It's a small congregation, and it's of the Redeemer.
That would be Christ. So you can even call it the Church of Christ. So it's The Parish of the Redeemer. It's on Facebook and YouTube, and The Parish Reformed is the podcast. A lot of Church of Christ stuff on that and other things.
But yeah, check it out.
Love you.
Love you, Carl Henry. Even though we've written hundreds of books, Trey, wrong again. See, it doesn't matter what I say.
I thought they only speak or the Bible speak. I didn't realize they go outside the Bible.
Here's my question. Why are you writing books? Because if you show them some book under the Bible, like if you have a study Bible, and you show them like under here, see, it says this. Well, that's just man's opinion.
I just want the Scriptures. Well, then why are you writing books, Carl? Those are just man's opinions, those books, hundreds of them. Isn't that crazy? That's another thing I never thought about. Well, that's just man's opinion.
I just want the Bible. You realize when your preacher stands up, and he starts preaching, and he's not just reading the Bible, that's his opinion? That's man's opinion?
Trey, don't give me your interpretation.
Yeah, anyway.
There's just so many. Like just the no creed but Christ. We have no creed but Christ. That's a creed because that's not in the Bible. So therefore, that by definition is a creed.
You know what we mean.
But there we go. We're getting to definitions again, right? That makes them mad. Like I don't want definitions. I just want the Bible.
Like well, Trinity.
I don't believe in the Trinity because the Trinity is not in the Bible.
Well, guess what?
The Bible is not in the Bible either.
Trey, are we going to define some terms on August 23rd?
What's August 23rd?
Bam.
Marlon, fix that proposition. Water baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins, all your sins, past, present, and future. That's what Zachary Feinberg and Andrew Curley agree to.
Trey, Marlon said that is the proposition. It's just too long to fit on one graphic.
Marlon, that makes me angry at you. You're just doing that because of the money. If somebody paid you money, you'd put it on there, wouldn't you, Marlon? I'll never forget that.
That was the craziest thing.
All right, Brosenstein. It was good seeing you again. Bye, Carl. I love you. Another way of teaching Trey.
Look, here we go.
He's mad at me again, Carl. I love you, Carl.
You know he's laughing in the truck right now.
Carl, I'm going to find you someday. I'm going to hug you. I'm going to start tickling you just to make you laugh. I made Carl smile.
Our fishbone.
All right, taught and learned, John 6. Carl, get me off here before Carl just goes nuts.
Oh, goodness.
I don't know where the mute button is. Well, thank you all for tuning in. Thank you, fishbone. Thank you all so much for tuning in to the Apologetic Dog. Something I want you all to see on the screen is please like, share, and subscribe.
I have a lot of big plans for the Apologetic Dog ministry in terms of building a website, in terms of putting out more content. My church family at 12 Five Church has been an incredible support. We are the only Reformed Baptist church in Jonesboro.
If that is something that you are interested in, we would love to invite you to come check out our fellowship. If you're anywhere in northeast Arkansas, please come check it out. Once again, that is 12 Five Church where I serve as pastor and elder in the midst of a plurality of pastors.
I also serve with Pastor Nathan Hargrave and Pastor Keith Hinnick. We'd love for anyone to come check out 12 Five. We've had a number of guests that have found us through the Apologetics ministry. Hey, we would accept even Carl.
You know that, Trey? To come visit. Now, he wouldn't be allowed to come to the table, but you didn't know we would bar somebody.
I love Carl.
All right, everybody. Well, I love you all, and we have to end this thing, Trey, with Grandma's Church. You know that?
I love you, Carl.
So again, one body, which is the body, his body, which is his church, the church of Christ. I mean, man, if you just had some little bit of common sense, you'd think he drove by these denominations where it says Grandma's Church, Baptist Church, Methodist Church, Life Church.
I mean, he drove an hour and 20 minutes here, and they act like they give God the glory and Jesus. I mean, Grandma's Church, Baptist Church, Presbyterian Church, Church of Christ.
Same thing.
Again, they deny redemption. Man, if you just had some little bit of common sense. Very sad. Very sad.