Twin Girls Saved From Abortion!

Apologia Studios

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Evening, my name is Jason Walsh. I'm the Executive Director of Arizona Right to Life. For those of you who are watching the live stream, and we thank you so much, coast to coast, those of you here in the audience, we are here to present on the topic of ending abortion now.

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We have tremendous speakers, and the topic is something, obviously, as you're watching this and you're listening, this is something near and dear to your hearts, and we hope to be able to really lay out a biblical rationale for what we want to do in terms of ending abortion now.

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So to do this and to be able to get through as many speakers as possible, we're gonna start off with the first speaker tonight, which is

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Jeff Durbin. Jeff is Pastor of Apologia Church and host of Apologia Radio and TV.

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Jeff Durbin is Pastor Elder of Apologia Church in Tempe, and has worked for many years as a hospital chaplain.

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Jeff is a popular speaker for camps, conferences, churches, and schools across the nation. He has participated in outreach to various different religions across the nation, and has even engaged in public debate against atheism.

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His podcast is among the top in iTunes religious section, and his television show, Apologia TV, is seen on the

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NRB network. Pastor Durbin. Thank you very, very much.

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Thank you guys for joining us this evening, senator in attendance, and pro -life groups, and for those of you guys watching really literally around the world, wanna tell you guys how grateful we are for you guys joining with us in this event, and participating with your churches, live streaming this event, your groups, your abortion mill ministries.

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We're grateful and we're humbled that you guys would consider listening and participating with us in ending this great evil in our nation.

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And so we're grateful. Wanna encourage you guys to continue the conversation with us. You can do that by watching the content that we upload at endabortionnow .com,

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and you can also check out apologiaradio .com, listen to the podcast, the TV shows, where we keep you guys up to date on this process as we fight for the justice of the unborn.

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We plan on presenting this evening the foundations of the paradigm shift, the paradigm shift, the biblical, the legal, the scientific, and the historic content and context.

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So we'd like to encourage you guys to please stick around in the audience, stick around as we lay down the foundations and the basis for ending abortion immediately at the state level.

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And I wanna start, before we get into the explanation tonight and digging into the scriptures, as well as the legal issues and the scientific issues,

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I wanna start with a passage of scripture. Here now is the reading of God's holy word. Proverbs 24 .10.

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If you are slack in the day of distress, your strength is limited.

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Deliver those who are being taken away to death, and those who are staggering to slaughter, oh, hold them back.

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If you say, see, we did not know this. Does he not consider it who weighs the hearts?

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And does he not know it who keeps your soul? And will he not render to man according to his work?

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If you would, pray with me. Father, I wanna ask that you'd bless this entire pursuit,

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Lord, for your glory and for the good of these children. God, I wanna plead with you that you would give the men and women that you have put into position of authority, you'd give them courage.

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God, would you give them, Lord, eyes that see clear what is ahead of them.

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And I pray, God, that you would raise up giants, people who are courageous,

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Lord, for the sake of these children and for your glory. God, we ask that you'd move mightily in our nation.

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God, bring our nation to repentance. And at the same time, God, I pray that you'd be glorified in, Lord, stopping the destruction of the fatherless.

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And it's in your name we pray, amen. Thank you guys again for joining us. Again, I'm Pastor Jeff Durbin, a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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I'm a pastor at a church called Apologia Church in Tempe, Arizona. And as Jason, my buddy mentioned,

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I'm also the host of Apologia Radio. It's a pretty sweet podcast heard around the world. And I think it's great, but that's just my opinion.

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Also, we have a television program, Apologia TV on the NRB network. And it's seen really around the world.

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I got into the fight really only a couple of years ago. I was, as a

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Christian, pro -life in my heart and in my head for a long time. As long as I can remember, I was pro -life and would have fought in any argument to defend the rights of the unborn.

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And I didn't do anything about it. And so I was really, again, pro -life in my heart, in my head, and in my church, and in between the walls of the church.

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A couple of years ago, I saw coming across my feed on Facebook, a woman, and she kept posting these pictures of her with other women and babies.

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And I saw pictures of her standing outside of abortion clinics, bringing the gospel to an abortion clinic.

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And it started to stir my heart a little bit. And I started to see so many of her pictures come across my feed that it got to the point, it actually gained my interest.

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And I thought, well, who is this? Her name was Lisa Metzger. And she is a sidewalk counselor on the

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East Coast. And so I thought that I went to high school with Lisa. She had the same name as a girl that I went to high school with.

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And so I figured she's on my feed because I went to high school with her. And that's how we connected somehow. I didn't know her, reach out to her.

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I didn't know how she's on my feed. It just sort of appeared there. And I thought she was my high school buddy.

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And so I sent her a message and I said, hey, I'd love to have you on Apology Radio to talk about your sidewalk ministry and what you do at the abortion clinics and all these babies that are being saved.

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And she agreed. And so the day we did the episode, we get her on the line, we're in the studio.

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We're about to go on. And I said to her, I said, now, Lisa, I said, we went to high school together, right? And she said, no.

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And so I said, well, how are we connected? How do we know each other? And she says,

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I don't know, you tell me. So she didn't know me and I didn't know her. And now we're on the phone together about to do a radio interview.

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And I have no idea how this happened. And so through the course of the conversation of talking to Lisa Metzger on the phone, she told us in all the years of doing sidewalk ministry,

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I think about 20 years of sidewalk ministry, she's been in this fight. She brings the gospel. She offers help.

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She tries to communicate the grace of God and the seriousness of the situation behind those walls.

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And they offer help. And she said, when we've saved, I think she said somewhere around 364 babies. And my jaw dropped.

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Pastor Luke was with me in the studio and Joy, who were on the show with me, all of us were stunned right there that day.

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And this moment on the radio program in front of everybody, we didn't realize how big this was. My mindset of what happens outside of an abortion clinic is people screeching and yelling and a lot of heat and no light and nothing really accomplished.

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That's what I thought took place outside of abortion clinics. I knew people did it, but I had never done it myself. And all

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I had was perception. And so I said, 365 babies, that's insane.

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365 babies are alive now because you've gone and you've offered help and you've brought the gospel. And so she said, yes, last year.

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360 some odd babies saved outside of an abortion clinic in one year.

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And so this stirred the heart of our church. We realized that we needed to get into the fight.

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It wasn't enough to be pro -life in our heart and in our heads. We had to do something. And so we didn't know what we were doing except that we had the message of life.

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We had the gospel. We had the truth. We had the help. We had the heart and the desire to help these women.

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And so we went. And since that time, Apologia Church has gone to local abortion clinics with the good news, with the offer of help and assistance to women.

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And we've been able to see 50 babies saved from death outside of abortion clinics in Arizona.

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And by the grace of God, through that labor and that work, we've talked about it nationally.

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We've created a bit of godly and righteous controversy across the nation in this respect.

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And so there are over 20 ministries. We stopped counting at this point. 20 ministries that have started across the nation that now go to abortion clinics with the good news, with the truth and with the offer of help across the nation as a result of listening to us talk about the issue.

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And so God has done a tremendous amount in the life of Apologia Church. I wanna encourage you guys with a quick story so that we can remember what we're fighting for, particularly legislators and people who are in positions of power to uphold justice for the fatherless.

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I wanna remind us who we are fighting for. I was outside of an abortion clinic in Glendale.

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We were outside the clinic. It was a really rough day. It was a difficult day. We go there with love. We go there with boldness, but we offer help and we call out to these women and we ask them, please let us talk to you.

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Please don't kill your baby. Please let us help you. We'll do anything for you. We'll even adopt your child. We'll offer you any services.

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Please come talk to us. This was a particularly rough day where we were being attacked really on all sides.

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And after being worn out and worn down, there was a man inside that abortion clinic.

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And this man inside the abortion clinic was praying while his wife was in the back in pre -op getting ready to have her baby destroyed.

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He was praying, God, if you want me to do something, give me a sign. And so he looked outside the window in Planned Parenthood and he saw my friend walking near the front who was actually pretty broken up at that time because he was so worn out.

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And he was walking to the front with his sign because he just needed to be alone. And in front with the sign, he was thinking in his heart,

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God, this is worthless. We shouldn't be doing this. We don't need to do this. It's not accomplishing anything. And this guy inside is praying,

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God, if you want me to do something, give me a sign. And my friend walks up with his sign and it says, please don't hurt your baby, we'll help you.

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And so he walks outside to my friend and he says to him, I told God to give me a sign.

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And he says this, I asked God a question. He goes, is that your van over there?

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And all these vans that were out there, all these vans around, all these cars everywhere, he pointed to a random car.

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He had asked God, God, if you want me to stop this, let that van belong to that man. And he points to a random van and he says, is that your van?

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And my friend looks over and says, that van right there? He says, yeah, that's my van. And so the guy tells him, he says,

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I told God if you wanted me to stop it to have that van be your van. And my friend says, you gotta go in there, get your wife right now.

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And he ran inside and he went to the back and Planned Parenthood almost didn't let him go back. And he said,

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I'll kick the door down if you don't let me go back there. And they let him back there and his wife came out and today Carmelo is alive.

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Carmelo is one of the babies saved from death at Planned Parenthood because Christians had enough courage to stand up and just go and be a witness.

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But again, to remind everybody who's watching across the nation what exactly it is that we're fighting for,

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I brought some special guests today. Pastor Luke, could you get Rebecca and the girls?

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We have a team that works closely with us outside of Planned Parenthood in Tempe. And this team outside Planned Parenthood was calling into Planned Parenthood and they were offering help.

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And a woman was inside for an abortion in Planned Parenthood in Tempe.

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She could hear believers outside calling in saying, we'll help you, we'll do whatever it takes, we'll adopt your baby.

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And so Rebecca came out of Planned Parenthood, she was there for an abortion.

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She came out of Planned Parenthood, she went up to the other team that's out there and she said, you said you can help me.

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And so a conversation happened where Sherry told her the truth about what she was about to do.

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She was about to kill her baby. And she pleaded with her and she said, I'll adopt your baby, I'll do whatever it takes.

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And so as a result of that conversation, Rebecca now has twin girls.

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She was pregnant with twins that day, Olivia Grace and Kara. And what

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I wanted to do today, and we'll figure out how we can get them up here. They can come on up whenever they want.

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They're out in the back right now. That's the little voices. And as far as I'm concerned, they can cry all they want.

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I wanna encourage all of us who are listening right now across the nation and around the world, and those of us who are in this room right now, to remember the context.

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We're not fighting for something that in theory would be a baby. We're fighting for real, live, flesh and blood children.

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We're fighting for Olivia Grace and Kara. We're fighting for Carmelo. We're fighting for thousands of these babies a day.

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I'm gonna remind all of us that 60 million babies have died in our nation since Roe v.

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Wade. 60 million babies. Let me encourage us all to think about that number and remember something.

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That is not a number that any of us can really completely understand and fathom. 60 million babies makes

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Hitler's Germany just look like a minor bad day. And this is a

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Holocaust in our nation, with the children in our nation.

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3 ,000 babies a day die in our nation. That is a 9 -11 every single day in our nation.

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It happens on a daily basis. In Arizona, we've recently passed some pro -life laws.

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And I wanna remind all of us to be courageous enough to say something. With the pro -life laws passed recently, babies are still dying tomorrow in Arizona.

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As much as I am, as a minister of the gospel, grateful to God for every single baby that has been saved because of any incremental law,

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I need to point out something that should be obvious to all of us. 60 million babies is a failure.

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It's a failure. And we have a responsibility before God first and foremost to uphold justice for these fatherless children, to uphold justice for these children who were destroyed, who were decapitated, who are disemboweled, who have their arms and legs torn off their bodies, who are burned with fire, who are poisoned.

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We have a responsibility before God to uphold justice for them. And for the legislators who watch this and are present, you have a responsibility before the people of your state to uphold justice for these babies, to protect the lives and property of those under your care.

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We believe with all of our hearts that God has ordained civil government, that civil government is

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God's deacon. It is his servant to uphold justice. Your responsibilities are great.

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And we ask that you be courageous and listen. If we could, hey, can I have the girls now? Are we good? You gonna come on up?

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Olivia, Olivia, you wanna come up here? Kara, you wanna come up here? I wanna show you guys these precious girls.

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Let's tell Rebecca, thank you for coming today. Thank you, Rebecca, so much. I wanted to introduce you to these precious girls.

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One of my favorite pictures is a picture online, and it's Rebecca outside of Planned Parenthood with the ultrasound.

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Was it a week later? Yeah, yeah, it was about a week later. It was about a week later. That was my favorite picture. Yeah, I love that picture. And so she discovered after leaving that she had twin girls.

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So this is Olivia. Hi, Olivia. Hi, sweetie. And this is Kara. And they,

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I think, are precious. They're two years old now? They're two. Two years old. And so we want you to know how much we are grateful for you,

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Rebecca. And I've told you that before. But on our TV show, your courage to talk about what you've been through.

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And so we're very grateful. And real fast, this is really important for people to hear as well. When you were promised help, there was a baby shower.

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People threw for you, right? And what happened at the baby shower? Well, there was more people than we could fit in the room first.

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And there were so many gifts that it took so long that at some point I couldn't unwrap things anymore.

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We just had to go. And we couldn't fit them all in the car either. So we had like three entire, not even cars, truckloads of things going back.

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And for twins, I didn't have to purchase diapers for over a year for two of them. It was that much.

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I didn't really have to purchase much of anything other than clothes as they got older.

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So it was not what I expected. But definitely such a blessing.

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That was great. Thank you, Rebecca, so much. Girls, thank you for coming today. Bye, sweetie.

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I'll see ya. Say bye -bye. Bye, Kara, I'll see ya. Thank you so much, Rebecca. Bye, girls, thank you. So let's give a round of applause.

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Thank you guys so much. So I think it's important for us to put flesh on this subject.

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That's vitally important. Because listen, when I say 3 ,000 babies a day die, first of all, when

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I say it, I can't comprehend it. I don't understand it.

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I can't put it together. Because that's two, two babies. Two.

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3 ,000 die in our nation on a daily basis.

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This is what's in front of us. And I think that we have to look beyond just the ideas.

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We're pro -life, you're pro -choice. And we have to look beyond the kinds of policies where we say you have to widen your hallways and clean your floors.

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And no, you're not allowed to sell their parts. And we act like, in our states, that when we pass incremental laws like that, that we've had some sort of a victory.

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But I wanna ask the question, is it a victory when 3 ,000 Olivia Graces and Caras die in our states?

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Is it really a victory to say we can't sell their body parts, but we can still kill them in our states?

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This is not simply, in theory, these are babies. These are 3 ,000

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Olivia Graces and Caras every day. In our nation, one million babies die a year.

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Let me lay down the biblical case first, which is ultimately the only meaningful worldview in this discussion that can make sense out of this discussion.

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First and foremost, the biblical discussion. This is a gospel issue, the nature of the unborn, and the demand for justice in scripture.

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We'll lay out, of course, the scientific, in that it is an irrefutable fact that we are human beings at conception, the only biological difference between the baby in the womb and all of us in this room and those who are watching across the country is a difference of degree.

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That's the science. The legal issue is the states have the right and the responsibility to uphold justice for the fatherless immediately.

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First and foremost, the gospel. The problem is inherent. The problem is a problem of the hearts.

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When we approach this issue as Christians, when we go to the abortion clinics, the first thing we recognize is this, is that there is no difference fundamentally between the person who is going behind those doors and into those walls and into that clinic and the person standing outside of it.

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We are all sinners before the same God. We recognize that the problem of abortion clinics in our nation, the problem of abortion in our nation is ultimately a problem of the heart.

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It's this problem of sin. That's the problem. We recognize with the gospel that the problem is sin and the only solution in transforming people's hearts in our nation is through the good news, the grace of God offered in Jesus Christ and that's the message that we bring to the abortion clinics.

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I wanna say this very, very clearly. I believe respectfully and with humility that one of the great failures of the pro -life movement the last 40 years is that we have been afraid to stand on the foundation of the word of God as the basis of our fight against this great evil and when we do not stand on the foundation of the scriptures, we lose in this battle.

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We cannot change people's hearts and minds by abandoning our foundations and I wanna say that the first responsibility the church has in this issue in terms of rescuing babies today is to go to the abortion clinics where it is actually taking place and when we go to these abortion clinics, we bring a message that is threefold.

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Number one, it is a message of number one, the truth. What is actually about to take place behind those walls?

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Answer, murder. That is vitally important for us to state.

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When we are not honest about this issue and what takes place behind those walls, we cannot effectively communicate to anybody the necessity to legislate against it and if we are not honest about what takes place behind those walls, we cannot effectively communicate the love of God and the grace of God in Jesus Christ because we need to communicate what is true in this instance.

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Let me just say this. It should be obvious to all of us. When you tear the arms and legs off of a little girl and you crush their skull and you disembowel them and you pull their little body pieces out and put them together on a tray again, you have murdered that little girl and that happens over and over and over in our nation and the only hope we have is in the gospel.

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The Bible says the gospel is the power of God for salvation. It is what God uses to open people's hearts and their minds and to draw them into a relationship with himself.

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So for the church, first and foremost, when we go to abortion clinics, we tell the truth.

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This is murder. God commands you not to kill your baby and we tell them the second thing. That is that there is forgiveness and there is peace with God in Jesus Christ if they turn from their sin to God, to trust in Christ and in Christ alone.

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We offer the good news of salvation and the gift of eternal life. We stand with the women who are behind those doors equal before Christ as fallen people in need of God's grace.

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We're not better than them in any way. But the truth is they need to turn from sin and in this moment, the sin they need to turn from and the crime they need to turn from is what's taking place behind those walls and that is the murder of their own childs.

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So first and foremost, we tell the truth. Second, it is the gospel and the third thing we offer women all the time outside of an abortion clinic is we offer them help.

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We tell them, we will give you anything you need. Do you need money? Do you need a place to stay?

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Do you want us to adopt your child? We'll help you. We'll buy you cribs. We'll buy you diapers. We'll throw you big bashes and showers for your baby.

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We'll give you anything you need. Please do not destroy your child. We'll help you. First and foremost, this is a gospel issue.

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Second, the nature of the unborn. We know from scripture, Psalm 139, God says this, that he knits us together in our mother's womb.

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We are fearfully and wonderfully made. That is fundamental to what we say in the pro -life movement, amen?

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Is that right? I mean, when we say we're pro -life, we're pro -life for a reason, correct? Oftentimes in this debate, people have said, well, we should try a backdoor.

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We should slip in the backdoor and use more secular language, something that'll make it more palatable, easier for them to grab hold of.

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I wanna say this, that the reason we're pro -life is because we believe that God creates people uniquely in his image, and he creates them in his image in their mother's womb.

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That's where all of this begins. The Bible teaches us that God creates us in our mother's womb.

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It's an amazing thing when you think about the story of John the Baptist and Jesus. Now, go with me now for a second. John the Baptist and Jesus.

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John is in his mother's womb, Elizabeth, and Jesus is in Mary's womb, and they come together, and what happens in the text?

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It says John the Baptist gets some hops. He starts leaping in the womb. Why? Because he's excited that he's near the

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Messiah, but here's John the Baptist in the womb, leaping for joy about Jesus in Mary's womb.

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I think we need to be fundamentally honest here in this discussion. We're pro -life because we're Christians, amen?

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Amen. And we have to recognize, of course, you have people who are not Christians that recognize the value of the unborn in the womb, people like Christopher Hitchens, famous atheist who was pro -life.

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He recognized the value of a human being in the womb, but we have to recognize fundamentally we're in this fight saying what we're saying because we are

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Christians, and we can make sense of what is inside the womb. God knits us together in our mother's womb.

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We recognize that the Bible teaches that God created human beings different than animals. We are in the image of God.

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We are imago dei. We are reflections, in a sense, in the world of God himself, and so human beings are to be treated with value and dignity because it is an inherent thing from conception.

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So first and foremost, the nature of the unborn needs to be recognized. As Christians, we have to ask ourselves the question, are we being consistent with our convictions?

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Let me ask that. Are we being consistent with our convictions? Because we do say that that baby is in the image of God.

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We do say that we are image of God from conception. Biblically speaking, that's what we say.

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And so I ask the question to myself, am I being consistent with what

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I say is going on there? When we talk about this issue nationally, when we speak into the culture and we say, this is what's happening.

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These babies are being torn apart in the womb. Are we acting consistently with that claim, or is it a click?

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Is it a club? Is it something that we just say? Is it something that gets us elected?

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Is it something that helps us get dollars? Are we willing to take the risks necessary to rescue these unborn babies?

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Are we willing to do what it takes to rescue the next Olivia Grace and Cara? Because that is ultimately what is at stake.

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Babies are in the image of God. The next thing

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I wanna talk about is from the scriptures quickly is Exodus 21, 22 through 23, very important text to maybe go to later.

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It's a text in the law of God in respect to babies in the womb. It's actually a case law example.

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It's a fantastic example. Image of God in the womb, knit together fearfully and wonderfully made all my days ordained before there's even one of them.

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That's the biblical text about babies in the womb. And there's much, much more, right? A lot more. I've been squeezed into time here, guys.

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And everyone right now is like, Jeff, you are not doing so well. Okay. But we have to recognize that God's law actually has case law.

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Now, by the way, our American system of case law was based off of biblical law. There can be no refutation of the fact that our system of government, including the lesser magistrates and all the system we have was based off of a biblical system of government.

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But in Exodus 21, 22 through 23, there's a case law example of if two men are fighting, case law, and they actually hit a woman and it actually leads to the death of her child in her womb, then it shall be judicially life for life.

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Life for life. In other words, in God's law, if you took somebody's life, the judicial system said that it was life for life.

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If you killed somebody, life for life. And in this case, if you actually affect the death of a child in the womb,

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God's word says it is life for life. In other words, that baby in the image of God has as much value and is worthy of the justice due in this case.

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Exodus 21, 22 through 23. Babies are made again in the Imago Dei. Next point

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I'm gonna show everybody today, and there's so much more we could go to, but just I'm gonna show you a particular point in the text of God's word.

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And we get into the other discussion. For a moment here, Isaiah chapter one. Isaiah chapter one.

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And I'd like to encourage everybody who's in this fight who is pro -life, everybody who's an abolitionist, who wants to see an end to this, and encourage everybody who professes faith in Christ and loves

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God to listen closely to this text. Isaiah chapter one. The people of God before Babylon, before the captivity, hear from God.

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And this is what God says to them in Isaiah chapter 10. He says, hear the word of the

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Lord, you rulers of Sodom, give ear to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah. What are your multiplied sacrifices to me, says the

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Lord? I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle, and I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs, or goats.

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When you come to appear before me, who requires of you this trampling of my courts?

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Bring your worthless offerings no longer. Incense is an abomination to me, new moon and Sabbath, the calling of assemblies.

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I cannot endure iniquity in the solemn assembly. I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts.

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They have become a burden to me. I am weary of bearing them. So when you spread out your hands in prayer,

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I will hide my eyes from you. Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen, listen, listen.

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Your hands are covered with blood. Here's a moment in the life of the people of God, where God says to them, don't bother praying, don't bother with your assemblies, your church gatherings, don't bother with the worship services, don't bother with all of the programs, don't bother with the schedule.

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He says, don't bother, I don't want it. Why? Your hands are covered with blood.

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God does say to all of us who profess faith in him, that there is a particular point where there is so much injustice that he doesn't want to hear it.

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He doesn't want to hear the multiplied prayers. He doesn't want to hear about the assemblies. He doesn't want the offerings.

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What does he want? He wants justice. And he says in his word here, he says, verse 16, listen please closely with humility.

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I present this before you. Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean. Remove the evil of your deeds from my sight.

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Listen, listen. Cease to do evil. Learn to do good.

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Seek justice. Reprove the ruthless. Defend the orphan.

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Plead for the widow. God does call us to more than simply professions.

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God calls us to more than simply saying with our lips, I believe this or that.

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And I believe with all of my heart that God calls us in this issue of abortion in our nation, he calls us to uphold justice for the fatherless.

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He calls us to take great risks, to step outside of what we have been doing and to step into a new place where we stand on God's word and we plead for the cause of the fatherless, takes courage.

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And I want to call all of us to courage in our convictions, to go beyond the hypocrisy of saying one thing with our lips and having a shell saying,

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I believe this about the unborn, but not being willing to do really what it takes to end it.

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I want to call us away from hypocrisy. God demands justice for the unborn.

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And I want to say that finally, we need to pay attention quickly to the myth of neutrality.

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Let me say this, this is very important, particularly for legislators. The myth of neutrality, it's a myth.

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The person you talk to is not neutral and neither are you. The amazing thing here is that as the pro -life movement has moved forward to fight for the lives of babies, and they have, we've acted many times like we need to play neutral in the conversation.

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And the amazing thing that we haven't recognized for some reason is that we're the ones pretending neutrality

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The opposition is not. We pretend neutrality, but they don't.

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It's a myth. Jesus said, you are either with me or against me.

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Jesus gives a parable. You know it, you've sang it probably in church before, right, the picture that Jesus gives about a wise man and a foolish one.

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He says, there's a wise man who built his house upon a rock and there's a foolish one that builds it upon the sand.

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So you have two men, two foundations, and Jesus says two destinations. One makes it through the storm, when the wind and the rain and the storm come, it beats against the house, both houses, by the way.

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One makes it through and the other one, Jesus says, what? It ends in desolation. And Jesus says that the person who doesn't build their life upon the rock is the fool and they end in desolation.

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And so the question you have to ask yourself, philosophically speaking, legally speaking, religiously speaking, is whether or not you're standing on the rock.

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Because remember that as you face the opposition in the world of abortion and those who are pro -choice, they're not neutral and don't pretend to be.

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They are violently opposed to the biblical worldview and the idea that mothers and fathers should not be allowed to kill their babies in the womb.

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Remember the recent, everybody saw this, everyone in this room is a parent, of course you had to see this,

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Hillary Clinton being asked about the rights of the unborn in the womb. And what does she say? She says the unborn person does not have what?

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Constitutional rights. And what does she, how does she refer to it? Does she use Latin and say fetus in that sense?

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The unborn person does not have constitutional rights. Now friends, brothers and sisters, legislators that see this, pay close attention.

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They're not neutral. Stop pretending to be. We need to stand on the rock in this fight and say very, very clearly what our convictions are.

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I believe that baby's in the image of God. I believe that from conception, it is marvelously, uniquely, and majestically made in God's image, knit together by God, unique and valuable, and you cannot murder it.

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We need to say that with boldness and conviction, change the conversation. We are not simply pro -life.

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We are abolitionists. We want it done. We want it ended.

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We want justice for the fatherless. And we are also needing to be very, very clear in this day and age, in terms of how we feel about the baby, what we're saying is this, mothers and fathers cannot murder their children.

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That's the conversation. It's not simply we're pro -life. We are saying we are opposed to the murder of innocent children in the womb.

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I was amazed, I'm sure some of you guys feel the same way I did recently. Chris Christie in the debates, wasn't that amazing?

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Chris Christie, right? New Jersey. Chris Christie saying what? He calls it the murder of children.

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Planned Parenthood murders children, and you saw people say, wow. And the amazing thing is, is you have a man like Chris Christie, it surprises us to hear him talking that way.

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The amazing thing is, is that's the way we're supposed to be talking. That's the way we're supposed to be addressing this.

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He's changing the conversation. He's bringing it to where it ought to be. It's not simply pro -life.

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It's not that you're just killing an unborn fetus. You are murdering a child.

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Change the conversation. I want to point this out. The pro -choice movement, they are not neutral.

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They want, and they state it, abortion for any cause and, who can answer it? Anyone? Any cause and?

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On demand and? Without apology. Any cause, on demand, without apology.

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They have enough conviction to not pretend neutrality. On demand, without apology.

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Quickly, in terms of how they feel about what they're doing, this is an article in Live Action News, fantastic article about abortionists agreeing about what they're doing.

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Here's quotation, listen closely to this. In one article in the American Medical News, that was probably never meant for pro -life eyes, abortion providers from around the country discuss the emotional difficulties of performing abortions.

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One doctor said, I have angry feelings at myself for feeling good about grasping the head, for feeling good about doing a technically good procedure that destroys a fetus, kills a baby.

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Another abortion doctor used honest terms to describe his job. A late termination is actually not very nice and there is no way of getting away from it.

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I don't feel I am doing it for any other reason than for the best of both the mother and the baby.

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It is morally, quote, it is morally and ethically wrong to do abortions, listen, without acknowledging what it means to do them.

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I performed abortions, I have had an abortion and I am in favor of women having abortions when we choose to do so, but we should never disregard the fact that being pregnant means there is a baby growing inside of a woman, a baby whose life is ended.

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We ought not to pretend that this is not happening.

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Quote, reporter Leonard Stern spoke to Joanne Wright, the owner of a clinic in Ottawa. She explained how she and her fellow workers were fighting to force pro -lifers to take down a banner that announced abortion stops a beating heart and gave a phone number for women considering abortion to call for help.

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Stern confronted her with pro -lifers allegations that her clinic gave deceptive counseling to women.

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From the article, she said, good grief, they accuse us of pretending we're not doing what we're doing,

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I'm in the business of death. I think it's important for us to pay close attention to the scenario.

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Pro -lifers, not always, but we have. Pro -lifers, pretending neutrality.

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Pro -lifers, softening the language. Pro -lifers, making it easy for them to accept and to hear our case.

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And you have the pro -choicers and the abortionists saying, no, no, no, on demand, without apology, as much as we want.

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Abortionists now, not arguing what they were 40 years ago, saying it's just a clump of cells and it's just tissue, but actually they're being consistent now, not neutral, just saying, yes, it's alive, yes, it's a human being, and I should be able to kill it.

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When we go out to the abortion clinics, you need to know what we hear. We don't have women going in there as victims saying,

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I don't know what I'm doing, what are you talking about? People go into the clinic and they say back to us what? They say,

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I know I'm killing my baby. God will forgive me. I'm allowed to kill my baby.

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Just a couple of weeks ago, we had somebody outside the clinic pleading for the lives of these babies, and it was yelled back, you baby lover.

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We cried out to these women who were there, we said, listen, you're taking the heads off these little boys and girls.

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You're taking their arms and legs off. Today in that clinic is surgical abortion day. That's what's happening inside there.

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I said, please, they're being dismembered and disemboweled and decapitated today behind those walls, and somebody stood there and he said, that sounds delicious.

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That is what we're facing, and we have gone into these legal situations and we have pretended neutrality.

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They're not neutral. We should stop pretending to be.

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What is taking place? It's murder, and I wanna say the pro -abortion advocates love our arguments.

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It's about the women and not the babies. That's how we argue. We say women are victims.

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We try to soften what's happening inside there. We won't call it murder consistently, and so the pro -abortion advocates love our argumentation.

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Why? Because they recognize that watch, if it's not murder, then you can't really legislate against it, because guess what you can't do?

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You can't simply legislate somebody's preference, like a favorite flavor of ice cream, vanilla and chocolate.

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Let's make a law. You can't legislate a preference. You can legislate against it if it is murder in the first degree.

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We have to ask ourselves the question, what is the deliberate, intentional, with malice of forethought killing of an innocent human being?

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Let me ask the question again. What is the deliberate, intentional, with malice of forethought killing of an innocent human being?

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What is it? It's murder. It doesn't change because the baby is located in the womb.

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It is murder. It ought to be criminalized, and we have to ask this question.

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Are we committed to ending the murder of children in our state, or is it just a preference?

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Can I ask everyone to pause and think deeply for a moment with humility about that question? Are we committed to ending abortion, or is it a preference?

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Because there's a difference. There's a significant difference to being committed to end it for good, and it just being a preference.

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Because you see, if it's just a preference, if it's simply a preference, again, you can't legislate against it if it's just a preference.

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If it's just a preference, the pro -abortionists, the people who believe we can do this to our children, they recognize if it's not a criminal charge, if it's not murder, then we win.

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Because your preference cannot be codified into law. If it is a baby, if it is a human, if it is deliberate and intentional with malice of forethought, killing of a baby, if that's what it is, then we can have victory over it.

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We have to change the conversation. This is a love your neighbor issue. Jesus says two greatest commandments, love

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God, love your neighbor. This is a love your neighbor issue. Standing for the lives of these babies and justice for these babies means we are loving our neighbors.

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Jesus said on the last day, when he vindicates his people and their works before the world, he says, you gave me a drink, you gave me something to eat, you visited me when

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I was sick and in prison, and people of God will say, when did we do this? When did we give you something to drink and to eat? When did we visit you in prison?

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And Jesus says what? When you did it for the least of these, you did it unto me.

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And when we stand for justice for these children, every single bit of this activity is to the glory of Jesus and for him ultimately.

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Quickly, the scientific issue. What Roe v. Wade didn't address, and that is this, what we know now, not only from scripture, but from observational science, is that it is a human being from conception that is an irrefutable fact.

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It cannot be denied. What is the difference between that baby in the womb at the moment of conception and every person in this room?

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It's a famous argument. I want you to memorize it. I'm gonna say it so it spreads. It's not mine.

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It's borrowed, but it's great. SLED, S -L -E -D.

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This is the biology. What's the difference between a human being at the moment of conception and Rusty Thomas right now?

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What's the difference? Size. It's really small. We're gonna have a real hard time in our state and in our nation if we can start killing people because of their size.

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First person in trouble is probably my wife. She's a short one, okay? But we need to recognize that in any state, the legislature has the responsibility to uphold justice.

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We can't allow the killing of other human beings based upon their size. The next point, scientifically speaking, biologically speaking, the level of development.

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People say, well, it's not fully developed yet. Well, neither is my seven -year -old. Trust me, okay?

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We all go through different degrees of development and biologically speaking, it's a human at conception.

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The difference, level of development. It needs to grow. The baby needs to grow. He or she needs to grow and to get bigger and to develop.

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But you don't kill a human being because they're not fully developed. That kind of mentality gave to us

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Nazi Germany. That kind of mentality that says this,

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I know that it looks like a human. It's not a human, it's a Jew. It's not fully developed.

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Next is the environment. It's located in the woman. Why I have to say, it should be obvious to us, we cannot kill people because of where they're located.

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The next is the degree of dependence. Women say, it's dependent upon me for its life.

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Well, I wanna say, as an issue of law and science, when we talk about killing human beings because they are dependent upon another, we have to ask the question, where does that stop?

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Because we're all gonna be in a particular place when we're older, where we're gonna be very dependent upon somebody. We all go in and out of degrees of dependence upon other human beings all the time.

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We cannot kill other human beings because they are dependent upon others. Christopher Hitchens, famous atheist, my favorite atheist, by the way, he is dead now.

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He says in a debate with Frank Turk, he says, I do as a humanist, believe that the concept unborn child is a real one, and I think the concept is underlined by all the recent findings of embryology about the early viability of a well -conceived human baby, one that isn't going to be critically deformed, or even some that are.

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We'll be able to survive outside the womb earlier and earlier and earlier, and I see that date only being pushed back.

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I feel the responsibility to consider the occupant of the womb as a candidate member of society in the future, and thus to say that it cannot be only the responsibility of the woman to decide upon it, that it is a social question and an ethical and moral one, and I say that as someone who has no supernatural belief.

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Christopher Hitchens. Okay, quickly, what are we fighting for? And we're gonna have next up Matthew Truella talk to us about the role of the civil magistrate.

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What are we fighting for? Number one, immediately abolish and criminalize abortion at the state level.

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There was a recent bill in Oklahoma, SB 1118, said performing an abortion was a first -degree murder charge.

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In Arizona, it is currently against the law to kill your baby. Arizona Statute 13 -3603, a person who provides supplies or administers to a pregnant woman or procures such woman to take any medicine, drugs, or substance, or uses or employs any instrument or other means whatever with intent thereby to procure the miscarriage of such a woman unless it is necessary to save her life shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two years, no more than five years.

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Next point, courts cannot make laws. Every day babies are killed in Arizona.

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It is a violation of law. It is against the law in the state of Arizona to kill your baby.

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We'll talk in a moment. We'll hear from Dr. Herb Titus about the constitutional issues and Roe v.

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Wade, but it's important to recognize, number one, it's murder, number two, it's against the law in Arizona currently, and number three, courts do not make laws.

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Every day babies are killed here. It is a violation of law. How am

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I doing on time here, guys? I need to stop. Okay. There's so much more we could do.

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We're gonna continue the conversation. Here's what I'm asking. I'm asking for us to uphold justice. I'm asking us not to be lawless, but to uphold the law.

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That's important. When we talk about criminalizing abortion at the state level, we're talking about upholding the law.

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We're not talking about being lawless. We're talking about doing what is right before God and the people of Arizona, including these babies.

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That's what we're asking. Somebody might say this. They might say, this is radical. It's radical to demand an immediate end to abortion and to criminalize it and call it first degree murder.

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That's radical. No. What's radical is that we are in a place where we are destroying our own children and we accept it.

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What's radical is that people shout to us, I must be allowed to kill my baby.

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That's radical. It is not lawless to demand justice today for these babies.

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It is lawless to seek to destroy them. It is lawless to ask the world to accept the claim that a mom and a dad should be able to destroy their own boy or girl.

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That is lawless. And I wanna ask everybody who's watching to go before God and to ask him for the strength and the courage to do what is right before him and one another.

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Let's pray. Father, I thank you for today. I just pray you bless God what went out. And I pray that you'd help.

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Lord, I pray for those who are listening that they would stay and be patient. And I pray for those who are listening across the world right now that you would stir their hearts and their minds,

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God, that you'd open their eyes and you would remind them of Olivia, Grace, and Cara. Remind them that these are real babies, humans made in your image, majestic and beautiful who are being destroyed every day.

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And God, please raise up your people. God, bring us to repentance. Forgive us of our indifference and put your gospel on our lips.

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And I pray for any legislator who hears this, sees this, I pray that you would give them courage to do what is right, in Jesus' name, amen.