July 31, 2020 Show with Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington on “The Atonement in Covenantal History & God’s Plan for Adam”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening to you live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 31st day of July 2020 and I'm thrilled to have back as my returning guest today

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Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, pastor of Faith Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania, author, conference speaker, vice president of the board of directors for the

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Reform Forum and articles editor for the Confessional Presbyterian Journal.

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Today we're going to be addressing the atonement in covenantal history and God's plan for Adam and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

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Jeffrey C. Waddington. Oh, thank you, I'm glad to be here brother, it's always a pleasure to talk with you.

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And before we go into our theme, once again, why don't you let us know about this new church that you are pastoring that actually the church isn't new, it's as new to you as a pastor, it's a very old church going back to the middle,

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I would say, or perhaps earlier than that, but I think it was around the middle of the fundamentalist modernist controversy in the early 20th century, but tell us about Faith Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania.

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Sure, the congregation goes back to 1936, you were right, so it's right in the middle of the fundamentalist modernist controversies, so it left the mainline

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Presbyterian Church in 36, but it did not align with the OPC until 1964, the year

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I was born, so there were several years where they were an independent

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Presbyterian church, kind of like an independent Presbyterian church down in Savannah, Georgia.

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Yeah, there's a couple that actually go by the name Independent Presbyterian Church, the one in Savannah, and there's at least one other one that I'm aware of,

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I can't remember the location, but I interviewed the pastor, who was a Banner of Truth conference speaker, but sounds like an oxymoron, but they do exist.

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Yeah, you're right, and so in 64 they came into the OPC, and they've been ever since.

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I began working here about a year ago, the second

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Sunday of September, as stated, supply, so I've been here for almost a year filling the pulpit, and then as you know, you were present for the installation service last month on the 12th, so I'm thrilled to be here, to be settled in this location, we're about a half hour south of York, if you're looking on a map, an hour north of Baltimore, two hours to the southwest of Philadelphia, right on the half mile from the

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Mason -Dixon line. Yes, a beautiful little country church in a very rural area of Pennsylvania, and a very beautiful scenic area, and if anybody lives in that area or would like to move to a quiet rural neighborhood in Pennsylvania, that would be ideal, especially since you've got such a theologically sound church there with a faithful shepherd right in that town.

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Well, if anybody wants more information about Faith Orthodox Presbyterian Church, go to faithopc .net,

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faithopc .net, I want to apologize to our listeners in advance, well it's not really in advance, this is occurring right now, but there was some dangerous situations occurring outside my window where the studio is, in the 19th century parsonage of George Norcross, a very historic figure here locally.

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This parsonage goes back to the late 19th century, but there were, there are trees in the backyard here that,

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I'm assuming that some of these trees are hundreds of years old by the looks of them, and they were becoming dangerous because there were occasions when very large limbs have broken off and have fallen to the ground.

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If anybody had been beneath them, I'm sure at least on a couple of those occasions they would have met a certain death.

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So the landlord is doing the wise thing in having those dangerous limbs, these very old trees cut off.

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So unfortunately, I don't know how long this is going to occur, it's been going on since the morning, but you may be hearing a chainsaw in the background, and that's not because I'm a serial killer, that's just because of what

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I just explained to you. So as I was just saying, if you have any interest in looking at more information on faith,

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Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Falling Grove, Pennsylvania, go to faithopc .net, faithopc .net.

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And, well, what we are discussing today, the

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Atonement and Covenantal History and God's Plan for Adam, we wanted to take perhaps a different approach than merely providing an academic or theological defense for what you and I embrace and love, all theologically reformed or at least thoroughly reformed

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Christians, also known as Five -Point Calvinists or believers in the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, what we all share as a pillar of our theological beliefs is the doctrine known as Limited Atonement, it's also known as Particular Redemption, and it's also known as Substitutionary Atonement, although Arminians even use that phrase, but they have to be very inconsistent and illogical when they do so according to their own theology.

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But Particular Redemption, Definite Atonement, and Limited Atonement are the three phrases that are normally used to describe this.

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Why don't you first, just right off the bat, explain that, but keep in mind, folks, that we are going to be speaking of this issue in a much broader theme of the

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Atonement and the Covenantal History and God's Plan for Adam. Explain Limited Atonement for our listeners.

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Yes, well, I think it's Arthur's goal to say that everybody believes in Limited Atonement.

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In other words, either its extent or its intent is one of the...for

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the Calvinists, or what I like to sometimes refer to as the Five -Stripe

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Baconist, we affirm...you may have seen that meme floating around on Facebook...for

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Reform folk, the extent of the

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Atonement is limited, but for Arminians, the intent of the

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Atonement is limited. By that we mean, for the Reformed, Christ actually saves those for whom

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He died, whereas in Arminianism, He simply makes it possible that they will be saved.

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And it's interesting that you have very few non -Reform people that will actually admit that.

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There are some scholars that realize that that is what must be said for their non -Reform theology to be consistent and logical.

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They have to say that Christ's death only made men savable, or provided a hypothetical

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Atonement or Redemption, whereas we, who believe in, as one of the phrases indicates, definite

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Atonement, we believe that when Christ died, He definitely redeemed or atoned for the sins of those for whom

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He died. And since we're not Universalists, we don't believe everybody who ever lived and ever will live will be in Heaven because of His death.

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We believe, not being Universalists, that that means He died specifically for His own people, a fixed number of people known as the elect, known only to Him, at least known only to Him before their regeneration, and those whom

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He chose before the foundation of the world. Right. And as you point out,

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He hasn't revealed that number in the...He's revealed the fact of that number, but He has not revealed a list of those who are included in that number in the pages of Scripture, and I would want to say that you can know that you're saved.

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I want to very, very strongly stress the possibility of the assurance of salvation.

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In fact, that should be the normal experience. I recognize that not everybody has that immediately, and it's possible to misunderstand it, it's possible to be a hypocrite, to think you're saved but not be saved, but it is true.

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One of the blessings of the Protestant Reformation was a recovery of the doctrine of the assurance of salvation, and so we want to stress that.

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And the Omnium really can only talk about...they

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talk about the blessedness of assurance, but we would have to say they mean by that for the moment.

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You know, you can only be assured of your salvation in this particular instance. Right, and of course...

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No, go ahead, I'm sorry. We don't know for the...I mean, for consistent

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Dominion, now thankfully there are many who are inconsistent, and happily so, who don't think that you lose your salvation every time you stub your toe.

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And I wasn't like that myself, I never...I thought that was a silly approach.

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Yes, in fact, our listeners may not know if they did not hear your interview that included your testimony on this, but my guest today,

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Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington, was for quite a while a member of the Salvation Army, which is a full -blown

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Wesleyan -Arminian denomination, even more extreme, perhaps, than your average

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Wesleyan church. And certainly, yeah, and one of the things

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I wanted to say was in 1986, when I got a hold of what was then a brand new book by John Stout on the cross of Christ, and he argued for a substitutionary atonement, among other things, and I became convinced of that, that obviously put a chink in the armor of my

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Wesleyan theology, because you can't have substitutionary atonement in its true sense without Reformed theology backing it up.

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Right, that's why I said Arminians use it today also, probably just as much as we do, but they are inconsistent and illogical when they do it.

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Yes, again, it's a happy inconsistency if they actually believe it in its full or biblical sense.

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I'm afraid it probably gets redefined in many instances, just like you can talk,

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Wesleyan can talk about the sovereignty of God, but what they mean by that and what the Bible means by it are two different things.

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And so, my interest today, Chris, was to talk about, to take the, looking at the work of Christ specifically on the cross within the context of covenant theology, and what

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God intended for Adam in the pre -fall garden, but then seeing how the work of Christ is illuminated or highlighted and made much more understandable, because if we understand what happened in the garden prior to the fall, then we have a much better grasp of what happens in the history of God's work of redemption in the rest of the pages of His work.

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Now, let me, just before we go on, because I have heard,

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I think especially Roman Catholics pose this question, perhaps even more specifically

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Roman Catholic apologists pose this question to evangelical apologists and scholars.

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When they talk about their belief in the fact that we can know that we're saved, that we can have assurance, the

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Bible does teach that those who are saved can have assurance of their salvation, although not every believer consistently has this assurance in their mind and heart.

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In fact, Spurgeon has said some of the most precious saints who have a hypersensitivity to sin in their own lives have sadly carried the burden of doubting their salvation, but that does not make them any less saved.

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But they will say that that means that we are claiming to have perfect knowledge about something, infallible knowledge about something, and sometimes the joke is hurled at us that we are our own popes because we have infallible knowledge about something like that.

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Now, would you say that assurance is sufficient knowledge but not infallible?

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We are still to make our calling in elections sure.

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We are to be involved in self -examination but not morbid introspection.

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If you couldn't come to some settled certainty about our spiritual state, why would

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Peter tell us to make our calling in elections sure? Yeah, exactly. Think of the word he used, right?

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Sure. And John, of course, as you know, Chris, is very strong on this point. The Gospels are written so that we might know that Jesus is the

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Christ, the Son of God. Luke specifically writes that that was the purpose for his writing his gospel was that Theophilus would have a certainty with regard to the things that are taught among us.

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And again, the Apostle John in his letters tells us that we can know that we are children of God.

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So, you know, it is a knowledge conveyed to us by God.

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And if God is, of course, an infallible

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God who gives us knowledge based upon the work of the

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Holy Spirit in conjunction, the Westminster Standards, in particular, talk about three strands that go into our knowledge of our assurance of our salvation.

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One, of course, is the ministry of the Holy Spirit who witnesses to our spirit that we are children of God.

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The second is the promises of God's word. And then the third, of course, is looking at the effects of the grace of God, the effects of the work of the

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Holy Spirit in our lives. So all three of those make for a three -strand rope, as it were.

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So all three are necessary. In other words, it's not simply some nebulous mystical experience without the guidance of the word of God, nor is it simply looking at—if we're only looking at the evidences of our faith, our assurance would be unstable.

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Our assurance could not be sure, could not be certain. Again, it is possible to be mistaken, so it's not infallible in that sense.

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Yes, and even about our brothers and sisters, we have sufficient knowledge.

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Unless their lives and their belief prove otherwise at some point, we do not have to play a guessing game throughout the entirety of our lives over those we count most dear in our lives, whether or not they are truly saved, especially after their death.

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Like, for instance, in 1 Thessalonians, there's that famous, glorious verse to give comfort to those who are grieving and mourning.

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But I do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.

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Obviously, if a Christian loved one, that you have no indication, has betrayed the faith, has apostatized, has fallen into unrepentant sin, if you have no knowledge of these things, you are to rest in the peace and joy that that person is in heaven.

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But, at the same time, since your knowledge of this is not infallible, could that person have been a false convert?

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Could that person have been in secret a serial killer, as I mentioned before? Yes. In fact, there have been serial killers that have been in prison for life or put to death who were members in good standing of churches, even in leadership.

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And you have, of course, charlatans, even in pulpits, who deceive people for sometimes decades and then reveal themselves to be frauds.

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So, there is a reasonable and sufficient assurance that we have, but not an infallible one.

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Right. In terms of our own knowledge of our own state, that is, the

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Bible tells us, can be certain. But knowledge of other people's spiritual state is, we can't be, we don't have that level of assurance.

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We have to depend upon their witness, their profession of faith, and their life, right?

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And so, yes, it's possible to think someone was a believer and discover that, in fact, they were not.

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But anyways, my desire today was to talk about how the work of Christ and His life, death, burial, and resurrection, and ascension are tied intimately to the plan of God throughout redemptive history and throughout universal history, right?

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And it's not something that just drops from heaven that's inexplicable, but we're told in advance, in types and shadows and ceremonies, what will happen, and then, of course, the actual historical events are revealed in the

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Gospels, it's proclaimed, I've heard it said this way, it's proclaimed in the Book of Acts, and it's explained in the letters.

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Well, what we're going to do is, we're going to take a break right now, our first break, and then we'll get into the meat of our specific theme, the atonement and covenantal history in God's plan for Adam.

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Our email address, if you have questions, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com

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Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say, for instance, you have come to embrace limited atonement, definite atonement, particular redemption, and you are terrified of what your pastor is going to say, or what the majority in your church are going to say.

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Perhaps even a pastor listening who has had that same experience, you're afraid that you're going to be run out of your church on a rail by the elders, the deacons, and the congregation because of this newfound belief, or at least something that you have become curious about.

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We understand that you would want to remain anonymous at this point, but if it's just a general question on theology and doctrine, please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Jeffrey C. Waddington right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Chris Arneson your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full program is

35:24

Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington Pastor of Faith Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Fallen Grove, Pennsylvania We are discussing the

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Atonement and Covenantal History in God's Plan for Adam and I'll allow you now to pick up where you want to start the main the main theme of our show today

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Sure My desire was to show how properly understanding

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God's work with Adam and Eve our first parents in the Garden prior to the Fall actually helps us to understand

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Christ's work especially His work on the cross but actually the whole of His life as we

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Pauline being actually right because he picks up on the the role of our

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Lord as a second Adam and so when

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God created the universe the world and He played

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He created the Garden of Eden and then He created

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Adam placed Him in the Garden and then created

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Eve out of the rib of Adam He gave a there was a relationship that God had with our first parents it's a relationship that we in Reformed circles typically refer to as a covenant relationship

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Adam didn't just happen to interact with God it didn't happen accidentally

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God caused Adam condescended and to enter into a relationship with our first parents

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Adam we know was a federal head that means he was a public person what he did or didn't do would have consequences not only for himself and his wife but also for all those who in the words of the

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Westminster confession of faith descended from him by ordinary generation that's also of course the language of the catechisms and of course the very language that would descend by ordinary generation is meant to exclude one person and one person only and that is the

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Lord Jesus Christ Adam God determined to relate to Adam by way of a bilateral

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God determined to do that it was not a bilateral covenant in its establishment it was determined by God that he would enter into a relationship with Adam in particular but of course both with Adam and Eve and that there would be a response on the part of our father

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Adam he was told to eat from any tree in the garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil by the way brother you're starting to get muffled in your voice that's my fault

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I just put a finger in front of the speaker oops okay yeah so the prohibition the command to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil found in Genesis chapter 2 is a covenant stipulation in other words it's a command and God of course says in the day you eat of it you will surely die in the

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Hebrew it's we could wouldn't we translate it you will dyingly die it's the

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Hebrew way of emphasis and of course the implication the strong implication is of course had he been obedient he would have been confirmed in righteousness and there's more that goes into that argument than just that passage but if you think about it a eternal consequence of a temporal act which is what dyingly dying is

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God said in the day you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you will surely die well the eating from the tree is a temporal act but it has an eternal consequence well the implication

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I would argue is that had Adam been obedient he would have not only just continued in his state of probation remember

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Adam and Eve were in this continual state of probation owing God absolute personal perfect and perpetual obedience and that that would have gone on on ad infinitum and so God in the that foreshadowed the coming of the person of Christ for instance he's a mediator he mediates for his disobedient people as you know as God is giving

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Moses the ten commandments the children of Israel are down in the valley creating mayhem and mischief and disobedience rising up to play which of course is not a reference to pulling out their

48:05

Lincoln logs and Legos and then okay so we see the promise of the coming of Christ ultimately and that becomes over time in the history of redemption and God's working with the children of Israel that becomes clearer and clearer as to what will happen as prophetic word is spoken and written down at God's behest we find further and further enlightening scriptures explaining what is going to happen now the son of God comes in the fullness of time born of a woman born under the law he's born under the law so that he may ultimately fulfill that law himself that's ultimately why he comes in the flesh that's why the incarnation is so important the incarnation is not saving in and of itself but the incarnation is absolutely necessary in order for us to be saved

49:11

Christ not only undoes what Adam did in bringing upon us sin the guilt and corruption that comes with that he also is going to restore to us the the promised blessing of eternal uninterrupted communion with God that is why

49:35

Christ came and that is why that helps us to understand what is going on when

49:43

Christ gives his life as an atoning sacrifice we see very early with our first parents remember their reaction to the hearing of God coming and I would argue that God's coming was a coming in judgment it was the first coming of the day of the

50:05

Lord that we have recorded in the pages of scripture who of the day is probably not the best translation of that passage but probably in the wind of the storm or the spirit of the day the spirit of the storm it is

50:24

I think an early first reference to what we come to know as the coming day of the Lord our first parents they hide themselves among the trees and they try to fashion for themselves garments because they now know that they are naked and God confronts them and that's when we have that promise of the coming

50:46

Messiah in the Genesis 315 but one of the things that God does is he replaces their garments with fake leaves with animal skins garments made of animal skins that means that he had to kill an animal to do that he had to offer he had to sacrifice so to speak an animal in order to be able to provide those animal skins and that is again a very early foreshadowing of the necessity of the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins the author of the book of Hebrews tells us such that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins and I would argue that Adam and Eve did of the church in its

51:39

Old Testament form and only because of the grace of God not because of anything they did and I would also argue that it is the backward effectiveness of the person and work of the

51:56

Lord Jesus Christ so the work of Christ on the cross works both backwards and forwards all the saints of the

52:06

Old Testament age are saints because they are saved by grace through faith in Jesus in fact we have to pick up right where you left off there we have to go to our midway break it's a longer than normal break folks remember that in the middle of the show we have to have an extended break because grace life radio 90 .1

52:26

FM in Lake City Florida requires of us a longer break because the FCC requires of them a longer break to localize this show which they air twice a day in a prerecorded format localize this show to Lake City Florida with their own public service announcements and other things that they air so while they do that we air our globally heard commercials please use this time wisely write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as possible so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because the more often our advertisers hear from you the more likely they are going to remain our advertisers which

53:07

God willing subsequently is going to mean the more likely we are going to remain on the air for a longer future because we absolutely depend upon our advertisers to exist due to the finances they provide so please respond to our advertisers as often as you can and further ensure that you will do that by writing down their information and also send in questions to Jeff Waddington on the atonement and covenantal history and God's plan for Adam our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com don't go away we'll be right back with Jeff Waddington after these messages

53:46

Chris Arnson host of Iron Sharpens Iron radio here I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years his name is

53:54

Dan Buttafuoco Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind

54:01

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled

54:06

Consider the Evidence for the Bible Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword

54:11

Dan also has a master's degree in theology Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many

54:21

Christians in serious injury matters all over the country Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the

54:29

National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in Illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in New York his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state

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I recommend that you call Dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win

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Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878

01:04:52

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

01:04:59

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially.

01:05:08

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

01:05:20

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

01:05:27

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

01:05:40

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

01:05:50

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org, that's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

01:05:58

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

01:06:03

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

01:06:38

God bless. I'm Pastor Bill Sousa.

01:06:57

We'll see you next week.

01:07:04

God bless. God bless.

01:08:12

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

01:08:20

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

01:08:28

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

01:08:34

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

01:08:47

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

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Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

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That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And don't forget, folks, please, please make your first stop, your very first stop for all your gift -giving needs, solid -ground -books .com,

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solid -ground -books .com, the website for Solid Ground Christian Books, solid -ground -books .com.

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They are a key, a primary, a vital sponsor of this program, and we likely would not continue airing this program, we would not be able to, barring a miracle from God, if we did not have the continued financial support of this very wonderful and valuable ministry.

01:09:52

Solid -ground -books .com, remember them for birthdays, for wedding anniversaries, for back -to -school gifts, for retirement gifts, those that you know who are just baptized, those whom you know who are grieving and mourning the loss of a loved one.

01:10:13

Even, please start stocking up on your Christmas gifts very early so that you can beat the mad rush this

01:10:20

December and have all your gifts taken care of, making sure that all of your loved ones, whether they are

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Christian or non -Christians, have the life -saving message of Jesus Christ contained within the pages of the finest in Christian literature that has been put into print from Solid Ground Christian Books, from the past and the present.

01:10:43

At solid -ground -books .com, and always remember to tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:10:50

Before we return to our guest today, Dr. Jeffrey C. Waddington and our discussion on the

01:10:57

Atonement and Covenantal History and God's Plan for Adam, we just have some important announcements to make.

01:11:04

Why don't you mark your calendar? I mean, every day we have a wonderful show lined up, but specifically, you may want to mark your calendars for a guest that is our most interviewed guest in the history of this show, but he hasn't been on for a while.

01:11:18

I'm speaking specifically of Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of Grace to You Ministries, the Media Ministry of John MacArthur.

01:11:24

He will be our guest, God willing, this Tuesday to discuss the new resolution, if you will, of Grace Community Church, the church where John MacArthur pastors, to stand firm in remaining opening and functioning normally as a church and as a gathering place for worship and teaching and edification, in spite of threats by the government, even threats to cut the power on the building, and we'll be finding out more about that from Phil Johnson.

01:12:02

The following day, someone else who is on the faculty, or should I say on the staff, of Grace to You Ministries, Darrell Bernard Harrison, who hosts a podcast with Virgil Walker.

01:12:16

Both Darrell and Virgil will be on the show. Right now,

01:12:22

I think that they are going to be responding to the Black Lives Matter movement, or a Christian response to the

01:12:27

Black Lives Matter, but I'm sure other things will come up. And you never know with the way things are going in the news, that might even be changed completely by the time next

01:12:36

Wednesday rolls around, but mark your calendars also for this coming

01:12:42

Wednesday for Dr. Darrell Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker. And every day, as I said, we've got great guests lined up for August, and I hope that you tune in every day.

01:12:56

I also hope that as many of you as possible join me on Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th, for the

01:13:09

ACBC conference in Scranton, Pennsylvania. ACBC stands for the

01:13:19

Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, and they are having their Basics of Biblical Counseling conference coming up, as I said,

01:13:29

Friday and Saturday, the 28th and 29th of August, at the High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Scranton.

01:13:38

I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there, and I hope to greet as many of you as possible.

01:13:44

The lectures are going to be conducted by the Executive Director of ACBC, who is

01:13:51

Dale Johnson, and he's going to be discussing the need for biblical counseling, the definition and goal of biblical counseling, progressive sanctification, qualifications of a biblical counselor, secular and integration theories, and what makes biblical counseling biblical.

01:14:09

We'll also have at least one Q &A session with the audience. It starts

01:14:15

Friday, August 28th at 6 p .m. Eastern, and concludes

01:14:22

Saturday at 5 p .m. Eastern. And if you want more details, if you want to register and join me there,

01:14:30

Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th, go to biblicalcounseling .com or you can also go to the website of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, which is highpointbaptist .church.

01:15:02

I hope to see as many of you as possible there,

01:15:08

Friday and Saturday, August 28th and 29th. And also, folks, if you love this show, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, you love being able to share the free downloadable

01:15:24

MP3s with your family, friends, and loved ones, you love winning free books and Bibles when you write in questions for our guests when they are authors, you love the fact that sometimes we feature guests and topics that are never heard anywhere else, well, please, if you love the show, you don't want us to go away, go to ironshepherdsironradio .com,

01:15:46

click support, then click, click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing so.

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And you can also, if you prefer mailing in a check via snail mail, you can send in a check to the address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:16:06

Make checks out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and just mail them on in. You can also advertise with us.

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We are in urgent need of your advertising dollars. So as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe, you don't have to be an exact perfect lockstep with everything

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I believe, but you need to be at least promoting something that is compatible with what I believe, feel free to send me an email and put advertising in the subject line and send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:16:36

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible.

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Please remember, folks, I never want anybody siphoning money away from their regular giving that they're accustomed to, to their own local church where they are a member.

01:16:54

Please don't do that. And don't put your family in financial jeopardy if you are having a very difficult time making ends meet.

01:17:01

Those two things, providing for your family and your church, are commands of the inerrant scriptures.

01:17:08

Providing for my show is obviously not a command of scripture. But if you love the show, you don't want it to disappear, and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:17:22

click support, then click click to donate now. And, you know, a lot of you have been saving money because you're not during this

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COVID -19 pandemic, quarantining that's going on in varying degrees in different parts of the country.

01:17:38

You're not going out fine dining. Some of you can't because all the nice restaurants are closed.

01:17:46

You're not going to Bible conferences. You're not going to concerts. You're not going to theatrical performances at playhouses and theaters.

01:17:57

You're not going to your favorite sporting events because many of these stadiums and arenas have been shut down or at least are having the activities without an audience in the stands.

01:18:13

Well, with all that money you're saving, please feel free to use as much if not all of that money to help us survive, if indeed you love the show.

01:18:23

I thank all of you who are already doing that. I keep mentioning a very generous woman in Austin, Texas, who beat all personal donation records.

01:18:34

I'm speaking of a donation from an individual, a private person, as opposed to a corporation or a ministry or church.

01:18:44

She beat all records of donations since the inception of this program in 2005.

01:18:50

I want to thank her from the bottom of my heart, this woman in Austin, Texas, that I hope to meet someday. But I am very grateful to all of you who either have given recently for the very first time or are regular, ongoing, faithful supporters.

01:19:05

You not only help us remain on the air, but you encourage me beyond words. Your love for this show continues to bless me in ways

01:19:15

I can't describe in the English language. Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world.

01:19:24

I may be able to help you find a church no matter where you live. I want to give a shout -out today to someone who reached out to me today for their daughter, who is moving or already has just recently moved to a town.

01:19:42

And I forget the city and state right now. But I just yesterday, or actually today,

01:19:49

I gave a name and location of a sovereign, grace -believing, biblically sound,

01:19:56

Reformed Baptist church that I hope that this brother's daughter will pay a visit to.

01:20:06

But I wanted to give a shout -out to Mike. And this is a church in Caney, Kansas.

01:20:14

There it is. Caney, Kansas. And I also want to give a shout -out to Pastor Josh Eaton at Crosspoint Baptist Church in Caney, Kansas.

01:20:24

The church to which I referred Mike to let his daughter know about this faithful congregation in Caney, Kansas.

01:20:40

But if you are in need of a church also, whether you need a church to join or you have a loved one who needs a church who does not have one, a biblically faithful one, or you want to visit a church on vacation, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:20:55

and put I need a church in the subject line chrisarnson at gmail .com I need a church in the subject line and I will help you find a church no matter where on the planet

01:21:04

Earth you live. And that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today,

01:21:10

Dr. Jeffrey C. Wannington. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:21:18

And if you could, pick up where you left off, brother. Sure. I will do that.

01:21:24

Thank you. So we see the front end of redemptive history with God's interaction with our first parents,

01:21:33

Adam and Eve, in the garden. And we know that while Adam, especially as our federal head, but just as a creature made in God's image, showed personal, perpetual, and perfect obedience to God's law, both the law written on the heart, that is sometimes referred to as natural laws, natural revelation, and then of course the verbalized command to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

01:22:02

They did. They did eat of that tree. You will remember in Genesis chapter 3, Eve looked at the tree and saw that it was an attractive tree and that it was desirable because she understood that it would make one wise.

01:22:20

And she took from the tree and ate of its fruit and gave some to her husband who was with her.

01:22:27

And he also ate. So that of course is the low point, the knee -deer of the fall.

01:22:37

So God could have simply said, okay, that's it. We're scrapping this whole project.

01:22:43

But he did not do that. And you have the whole history of redemption. And there are whole books that discuss

01:22:52

God's workings of redemption through the history of the children of Israel as the Old Testament church, and then the sending of Christ, the

01:23:01

Christ's perfect life. We want to note that Christ perfectly fulfilled the law, again, where Adam and Eve, but Adam is the federal head,

01:23:16

Christ is the federal head as well. You see this in Romans chapter 5 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15, where Paul compares and contrasts the person and work of Adam and the person and work of Christ.

01:23:31

With all other human beings left out of view. And so Christ comes and he obeys the law perfectly.

01:23:41

He actually obeys it in a much more conscientious, more articulated, detailed way than Adam could have done because of the fall.

01:23:55

Adam didn't have to deal with the misery that was brought about by sin prior to the fall.

01:24:02

When Adam fell, he fell in a state of luxury and pleasure and desirability and comfort.

01:24:14

Whereas our Lord fulfilled his ministry, and I would argue he fulfilled perfectly the covenant of works.

01:24:22

And he did that in the state of sin and misery.

01:24:27

He himself was not a sinner. He himself did not have a sinful nature, but he fulfilled the law in a much more troublesome context than Adam ever had to deal with.

01:24:43

So Christ fulfills the law, but when Adam and Eve fell, they fell so you have the necessity of the shedding of blood.

01:24:56

That is the necessity of an offer of a sacrifice. That follows.

01:25:06

Now with the fall, the disobedience of our first parents, with Adam in particular, there is the necessity of a sacrifice to satisfy the wrath of God, to satisfy the offended holiness and righteousness of God.

01:25:23

And there is still the necessity of fulfilling the law perfectly. That isn't done away with because Adam and Eve fall.

01:25:33

That necessity, what Jonathan Edwards referred to as the unchanging rule of righteousness, or God's unchanging rule of righteousness, continues on after the fall.

01:25:43

So when Christ comes as the second Adam, in order to undo what

01:25:51

Adam and Eve did, and as well as to gain what was offered to Adam and Eve, but they forfeited.

01:26:00

In other words, they had the promise of uninterrupted fellowship of God, enjoyment of God, in the presence of God.

01:26:10

They were offered confirmed righteousness, but they never attained to it.

01:26:17

So when Christ comes, he's dealing with both aspects, the necessity for atonement, but also he's dealing with the necessity of a perfect obedience to God's law.

01:26:33

That standard hasn't been abrogated by the fall, with all due respect to Ovidius and Grotius and others who say otherwise.

01:26:45

So when Christ comes, he's perfectly obedient to the law.

01:26:50

He satisfies it in all its aspects. And that does two things.

01:26:56

One, it fits him or prepares him to be a spotless lamb, a perfect sacrifice.

01:27:03

But it also enables him to share the benefits that he attains with his people.

01:27:14

So his perfect obedience, the righteousness that is imputed to our accounts, is the righteousness merited or earned by Christ as the divine man mediator.

01:27:32

But he also, because he's coming to undo the damage done by Adam, he offers his life in the place of his people.

01:27:45

He offers his life as a perfect sacrifice. We see this mentioned again in Genesis 3 .15,

01:27:54

but then much later in Genesis 22 when God calls

01:28:00

Abraham to offer up his son Isaac as a sacrifice on Mount Moriah.

01:28:08

And Abraham is obedient and ultimately the Lord spares Isaac from being sacrificed.

01:28:16

We see, and remember, when Isaac and Abraham are walking Mount Moriah and they're carrying the wood and the fire and the knife and Isaac asks, where is the sacrifice?

01:28:30

And he says, God himself will provide the lamb. That, of course, was true immediately in that context that Abraham was called the second by its horns and was offered as a sacrifice in the place of Isaac.

01:28:45

But ultimately God did provide for himself the lamb. He himself provided the sacrifice that he himself demanded.

01:28:55

In other words, Christ's death on the cross was not cosmic child abuse with all due respect to England's Steve Chalk.

01:29:04

It is not cosmic child abuse because it is God dealing with God.

01:29:12

God the Father, in eternity past, in sometimes what is called the covenant of redemption,

01:29:19

God the Father entered into an agreement with the Son and the Spirit that the Son would take to himself a reasonable body and a reasonable soul.

01:29:32

And he became a man in the hypostatic union of divine and human natures and united in one person.

01:29:43

And he offered himself up and that sacrifice was accepted by God.

01:29:50

How do we know it was accepted? Well, he was raised from the dead. Had Christ remained in the tomb after the crucifixion, that would have been a sign of the continuing curse.

01:30:03

Because remember, as Paul notes in Galatians chapter 3, calling on Deuteronomy 27,

01:30:11

I think it is, Cursed is any man who is hanged on a tree.

01:30:18

Had Christ remained in the grave, as many unbelievers believe he did, then the curse would still be upon him.

01:30:28

And as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, we'd still be in our sins. And so would all those called saints in the

01:30:38

Old and New Testament age. So Christ, by his holy life, by his work on the cross where he satisfies the

01:30:52

Father's righteousness, remember that the cross is not the way that the

01:31:00

Son gets the Father to love his children. The cross is a manifestation of God's love for his people.

01:31:11

As Paul says in Romans chapter 5, verses 1 -11, when we were enemies,

01:31:18

Christ died for us. When we were weak, when we were still in our sins,

01:31:24

Christ died for us. He didn't die for us because of anything good in us, but he died because in spite of there not being anything good in us.

01:31:37

So today Christ is raised from the dead. So whenever we think about the crucifixion, we don't want to divorce it from the resurrection, because the resurrection is the completion of our

01:31:49

Lord's work on the cross. He went to the cross willingly, voluntarily.

01:31:55

He was not untwisted. He was not forced. He was not a victim. You know, we could look at the historical circumstances alone and maybe come to the conclusion that he was a victim.

01:32:10

And of course, in that sense, he was a victim of miscarried justice.

01:32:17

But he willingly went into that set of circumstances. He knowingly went into that set of circumstances, knowing that he would be deprived of what we call today due process, knowing that he would be deprived of justice, that he would be accused of things that he did not do, knowing that...

01:32:44

Dr. Waddington, did you lose connection? I think

01:32:50

Dr. Waddington was cut off. Are you there? I'm here. I'm still here. I'm sorry.

01:32:55

My finger might have blocked the speaker. Anyways, as I was saying,

01:33:03

Christ, when he died on the cross, the Father turned his head away from him because he took upon himself our sin.

01:33:11

The sin of all those who were among the elect from the beginning of time to the end of time was laid upon the shoulders of the

01:33:19

Lord Jesus Christ so that we might be saved, so that he might bring many sons and daughters to glory.

01:33:30

And so, being raised from the dead means that the curse that he was under by dying on the cross has been reversed.

01:33:43

And because the curse against the Son has been reversed, the curse is also reversed for those who are in him, as Paul would say.

01:33:55

For all those who are in Christ, that is, those who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, who have received and rested upon him alone as he is offered in the gospel, he and she, he and she, he and her, whatever pronouns

01:34:13

I ought to be using there, they, because they are in Christ, they are united to him.

01:34:21

Just as we are united to Adam by nature, we are united to Christ by faith. Romans 5 and 1

01:34:29

Corinthians 15 again tell us this. So that Paul can say that when

01:34:35

Christ was crucified, we were crucified with him. When Christ was buried, we were buried with him.

01:34:44

When Christ was raised, we were raised with him. Not only that, but Christ, when he was ascended and raised to the heavens to sit at the

01:34:55

Father's right hand, Paul tells us that even now, we the saints are sitting in the heavenly places with Christ.

01:35:04

Now, not in the future, although that will be true too. But right now, all those who trust in Christ are seated in the heavenly places.

01:35:14

That's a mind -blowing thing. So the work of Christ on the cross and all the detailed work,

01:35:20

I can recommend a whole number of books. John Stott's book, several books by Leon Morris.

01:35:30

The book is For Our Transgressions, which came out a few years ago. In His Place Condemned I Stood, I think, a little book put out by Nine Marks Ministries, together for the

01:35:45

Gospel Brothers. There are many, many—Martin Lloyd -Jones has done stuff, material on the crucifixion.

01:35:53

Hugh Martin, the great Scottish Reformed theologian. There's a wealth of material on the work of our

01:36:01

Lord on the cross. And it would be a worthwhile endeavor for believers to spend the rest of their lives meditating upon the personal work of the

01:36:15

Lord Jesus Christ, especially as that was manifested in His voluntarily going to the cross.

01:36:24

For He endured the cross. He looked to that with joy, the writer to the

01:36:30

Hebrews says. In just one other note, we often think of Christ's prayer in the

01:36:38

Garden of Gethsemane before He was arrested and taken away and tried and convicted and put on the cross.

01:36:46

We often think that there's a wrestling going on there, and that Christ is thinking about the physical torture that will most assuredly be involved in His work of atonement.

01:37:00

But the fact of the matter is—and I think Sinclair Ferguson best deals with this— he says it's not that Christ is shrinking back because of the physical pain, but He's thinking about the loss of fellowship.

01:37:21

He's thinking about the horrific nature of sin that He's taking upon Himself that He's never dealt with in the past.

01:37:31

The Son has never taken upon Himself the sins of His people. That's a unique historical, one -time historical event.

01:37:40

It has theological significance and ramifications that ripple backwards and forward.

01:37:50

But He's not shrinking back because of the physical pain. He's shrinking back because of the sheer weightiness of the matter, the sheer horrificness of taking our sin upon Himself, the separation from the

01:38:11

Father in some sense as to His human nature. Of course, God can't be separated from God as to His divine nature, but still, that cry from the cross,

01:38:23

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Still, He did that for you and for me, brother.

01:38:30

That cry of dereliction. Praise God for that. Yeah, exactly. All of this is simply to help us to better worship our triune

01:38:42

God. When you think about all that has transpired for your redemption and for mine,

01:38:50

I find it mind -blowing, amazing. And I've just barely scratched the surface of the...

01:38:57

because I was trying to skate on the surface of the pond, so to speak.

01:39:03

There's a lot more that could be said. By the way, we have to go to our final break right now, and it's going to be a brief, a much briefer break than the others.

01:39:11

If anybody wants to join us before we run out of time with a question of your own, and we do have a couple of people waiting in the wings to have their questions asked and answered by you, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:39:28

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:39:36

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

01:39:42

We'll be right back with Jeff Waddington. Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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01:53:01

If you have an intention to send in a question, send it in immediately at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

01:53:08

Dr. Waddington, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, New York, who asks the question,

01:53:14

I hope I'm right in my description, but to my understanding, the difference between infra and superlapsarianism is a difference between an understanding of when

01:53:26

God decreed divine election before or after the fall of Adam.

01:53:33

And I was wondering if one or the other, in your opinion, is closer to biblical truth, or is this something that we must claim to be agnostic over because the

01:53:46

Bible isn't clear enough to give us an infallible answer on the subject.

01:53:52

That's an excellent question. I would tend to agree with the great Dutch Reformed theologian,

01:53:58

Herman Bovink, who said it is probably an issue that we have not received a sufficient amount of revelation in God's Word to address in any, what we would call, satisfactory manner.

01:54:16

And of course, as you know, in Deuteronomy 29 -29, the secret things belong to the Lord our

01:54:21

God, the things that are revealed belong to you and to us and to our children. So in this instance,

01:54:27

I think, as I have studied that issue, it does seem to me that there are points in which infra, which means after the fall, looks more biblical, and sometimes supra, above the fall or before the fall.

01:54:45

Remember, it's not actually regarding the timing of the decree because the decree is singular.

01:54:54

There are many facets to the decree. We do sometimes talk about decrees, but the fact is it's one decree with fallout in human history in many different ways.

01:55:06

But I think, again, I have to agree with Herman Bovink. This is as interesting historically as that debate has been in the history of the

01:55:15

Church. It is, I think, beyond our can to finally answer.

01:55:22

So do you disagree with those on both sides who have accusations toward the other?

01:55:28

I know that, for instance, infralapsarians are known to describe superlapsarians as hyper -Calvinists, and they would say that it removes

01:55:42

Adam from the actual responsibility of guilt for the fall.

01:55:49

And then you have superlapsarians who just say that infralapsarians are either inconsistent or not genuine

01:55:57

Calvinists at all. Well, first of all, Calvin himself,

01:56:03

I'm not sure that we are completely settled on what his view was, so the expression hyper -Calvinist in this discussion is probably simply for rhetorical cheap shots.

01:56:19

So no, I would say that if you draw an illicit inference from superlapsarianism, which

01:56:28

I suppose would be something like, well, we don't have to go out and evangelize, we don't have to share the gospel, we don't have to send anyone to India, you know, you probably have some idea who

01:56:39

I'm thinking of, John Kerry, William Kerry, sorry. His denomination was initially at least not concerned with sending him to India because they said if God wanted the

01:56:54

Indians to be saved, he would send the gospel to them. Is that the strict

01:57:00

Baptists that were... It may very well be, it's been a while since I did any reading on that, but yeah, see, that's an illicit inference drawn from the sovereignty of God.

01:57:14

Whether they were superlapsarian, I don't know, but even then, there are superlapsarians in the history of the

01:57:21

Reformed Church who are fine pastors and theologians, but on that, for instance,

01:57:28

Jonathan Edwards is often seen to be supra or infra, depending on the particular doctrine he's expounding.

01:57:36

So he may have come to the conclusion that we don't have enough information, we don't have enough revelation to settle the matter.

01:57:48

And again, Deuteronomy 29, 29, if God hasn't given us enough information to settle the matter, it's probably not a matter for us that needs to be settled.

01:57:58

So yeah, I come down, having looked at this discussion, there's some good material on the debate.

01:58:07

John Fesco, for instance, did his dissertation, I believe, on this debate, and I think

01:58:15

Bovink was right on this. There are times when I see the logic of superlapsarianism, but there are other times when

01:58:26

I see the necessity of an infra -lapsarian view. So we'll have to affirm both

01:58:35

God's sovereignty and human responsibility. Well, thank you, brother, for that insightful question, and we are actually way over time.

01:58:47

I did not even realize that we are now over time, and some editing needs to be done to remove a couple of repeated ads, because we have no more time.

01:58:59

But I want to thank you so much for being such an invaluable guest today, such a fascinating and well -informed guest.

01:59:06

I want to repeat to our listeners your contact information for the

01:59:14

Fawn Grove Orthodox Presbyterian Church, the

01:59:20

Faith Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania. That website is faithopc .net

01:59:29

faithopc .net I want to thank everybody who listened. I hope that you all have a safe and happy and healthy and heavenly blessed weekend and Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater