August 9, 2016 Show with Josh Buice on “Andy Stanley’s Problem with the Bible”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed when we

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

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Now, here's our host Chris Arnton.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all happy Tuesday on this

ninth day of August 2016.

I'm so delighted to have as my guest today for the very first time ever on iron sharpens

iron Pastor Josh Bice and he is the senior pastor of Praise

Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

Not spelled the way that you might think it would be spelled.

It's spelled P R a y Apostrophe s and we'll find out more about that.

And he is host of the blog delivered by grace .com and the director of

the G3 conference which we'll be talking about As a part of our discussion

today and a conference that I'm hoping to get to God willing.

Myself next year as we celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant

Reformation so today we're going to be discussing not only that conference, but we're also going to be discussing a

Controversial issue but one that I think will have great benefit to those who are seeking truth.

Now that is the theme Andy Stanley's problem with the Bible and we will be

discussing that and it will even be discussing why it is very appropriate

and legitimate for Christians to openly critique in public

those who are public figures and who are representing the Church of Jesus

Christ and the scriptures in public and Especially if they are media personalities like Andy

Stanley.

Who also is the author of best -selling books and so on so we're going to be getting into that.

Eventually in our discussion today.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron pastor Josh Bice.

So lighted to be with you Chris.

Thank you for having me and let me.

Immediately right off the bat give our email address for listeners who care to join us on the air with a

question for pastor Josh Bice and that email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail

.com.

That's chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And when you write we ask of you to please give us your first name Your city and state of residence and your

country of residence if you live outside the USA.

If you have a pressing Reason why you care to remain anonymous if that's

your preference, we will accommodate your request.

Perhaps you go to a church that views Andy Stanley as a very

trustworthy Teacher and you don't really want to identify yourself or whatever.

The reason is we will honor your request.

Prefer it if you could at least give us your first name and your city and state and country of residence if you live outside

the USA.

But anyway, let's start off before we even Get into the theme of Andy

Stanley or even the theme of the g3 conference.

I want to hear more about Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

Absolutely, Chris.

Well

me back home at Southern Baptist Theological

Synod the people where I had grown up as a boy and so it's been a

delight To come home.

I've been back now for six years, but the church itself is a 175 year old

Baptist Church.

Wow.

Yes, so the interesting thing is when I travel places or speak in different locations people ask

me Like praying to God or it's

neither one of those actually the apostrophe in there means

something.

So there was a man years ago who Settled here in this region and his name was

Ephraim this region.

So he Decided to donate land and labor from a mill that he

owned its money after a trance at

this church.

And so they wanted to name the church initially that they not do that.

So instead they named it after his Mill, so it was called Praise Mill Baptist Church.

And so 75 years

old and I grew up here and my wife grew up here both of us as children and so

it's been a joy,.

Can you tell us something about the.

Theological stance of Praise Mill Baptist.

More

along

the

line that we

align with more churches that

we have

passed from a reform.

We do have some people within our church who are not as

not fighting over these.

Automatically over

theology, so but

that's the you

mean you you mean you never drag these folks out into the parking lot and work them over.

A little bit.

Yeah, it's kind of interesting because if you were to insist immediately on people to

understand These doctrines of grace it would almost be a contradiction to the

doctrines themselves.

But.

But what we want to do Chris is we as pastors want to prove, you

know in a spot verse -by -verse.

And it's our goal a sovereign God a big God.

And so this God that we preach from the scriptures that not only created the whole world.

Not only is he ruling and reigning over the entire universe, but he's interested

in the week.

And that's the that's the message that we

can that's

our method and that's

what we're seeking to accomplish here.

Great and the website just for our listeners.

Information is praise mill calm PR a y s mill calm

and.

Is that really you and your family or is that a bunch of actors that you have in that photograph?

I very rarely see such a stunning family and the pastor's photo as he's sitting there with his wife and

kids.

Yeah, my wife makes me look a whole lot better.

We have we have 11.

Well as I

said before.

We are approaching before you know it we will have arrived at the

year of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and that

will be 2017 which 500 years earlier

in 1517 those of you who even have a cursory knowledge of the Reformation will know that

Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the castle church in

Wittenberg, Germany to protest the selling of indulgences and that was just a

Normal thing that they did back then in the academic realm they

wanted to get hot topics discussed and debated and Martin Luther did that

and he had no idea of the firestorm it would create and how that.

Those 95 theses that he had nailed up.

There would be reprinted and spread around Germany which eventually

the whole Reformation obviously traveled around Western Europe and we

thank God for The the Reformers for reviving these precious truths

that we call the doctrines of grace That were buried beneath a mountain of

superstition and ritual and works righteousness heresies that the Church of Rome had

accumulated over the centuries and As you know pastor Josh a lot

of people who are Baptists themselves as we are Scratch their

heads and they say what on earth are you celebrating the Protestant Reformation for your Baptist?

That has nothing to do with the Reformation.

In fact, the Performers were quite harsh Against the Baptists some of them even persecuted Baptists.

Why on earth?

Are those at Praise Mill Baptist Church celebrating this Reformation

with the g3 conference?

Which we'll be hearing about very shortly.

Yeah, so I would respond by just simply stating that.

What happened in the Protestant Reformation?

Affects all of us.

I think we felt Martin Luther

at a church.

He stood in

all of the

purpose

perversion

or a

The you

know for

Jesus

Christ

or our own

self stand up to

it.

He said no that's

that's so that's why

that was.

And that's why it is.

Now there are people there are quite a number of Christians today Not only

ecumenical Catholics, but ecumenical evangelicals who look upon the sale

of Indulgences or the issue of purgatory and they say come on guys.

Why are you nitpicking over this stuff?

We all love Jesus why don't we just Stop bickering and arguing over this

nonsense this trivia.

We're trying to count the The number of angels who can fit on the head of a

pin we're.

We're straining out gnats and qua swallowing camels and we're making map mountains out of

molehills here but this really is An assault this

this understanding of not only indulgences, but by the way, which are still Practiced the sale of indulgences are

still practiced by Rome.

The.

Whole concept of purgatory is really an assault on Christ's finished work on the cross,

isn't it?

Absolutely

Blasphemous against the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And if you read the actual doctrinal stuff, you will

see works been through the entire doc.

What we are aiming and so that

would bring and I would say absolutely

Not.

The Reformation is not over what Luther was pro

-continued to

probe and that's

look guys Can't we just

all get along?

I mean when a

works based

God by faith.

We're teaching that not

from vision Word of God.

Amen, and for those of our listeners who think this is just

Arrogance on our part.

This is mean spiritedness.

This is bigotry.

But aren't we supposed to be more concerned not only about God's Word.

Than we are over hurting people's feelings.

But aren't we supposed to be more concerned over the never -dying souls of men than we are over the

hurting their feelings.

Yeah, I mean, you know Chris when you think about this, you

know our doctrinal positions.

We can't we cannot I

would agree, you know, we can speak the truth in love.

However, we should we have people, you know, they would say well,

you know.

You need to be nice to people or you need to have I

think that they really find out exactly how it was to Jesus.

Amen, and when I get.

The.

Backlash from either Roman Catholic friends of mine or ecumenical

evangelicals.

That this is all about Hatred and bigotry.

I really always have to go back to the Apostle Paul in his treatment of the

Judaizers in the book of Galatians.

Because.

These folks perhaps naively and unconsciously are Really trying

to be nicer than the Apostle Paul and they're expecting all of us to be nicer than

the Apostle Paul when faced with dangerous teaching.

And when you look at the Judaizers, it seems as though they may have

even agreed with Bible -believing Christians on a lot more

issues than the Roman Catholic Church does.

For right from what we know, isn't it?

Just that they were insisting upon circumcision for the Gentiles to

become Christians and from what we Have read from the Apostle Paul,

we really don't know of any other differences that he had with these folks.

That's exactly right Chris.

And when you look at that statement in chapter 1 of Galatians You see the the sternness in which Paul

responds.

And when he uses that that word Leveled in

the gospel that has been preached to you when he's using that language to the church there

Galatia he's he's using a term that literally means let that word of

gospel be Anathema to be damn.

We think about this idea of let's just all be nice Christian.

Let's go back to Jesus

defied by her from the dead.

Now we must remember how it was

that John his

life is going

to identify the dead

now.

Coming from that

thing with that type

reminds the gospel in the slightest degree

and he basically.

Said that if anybody Preaches another gospel than the one he preached if anybody

adds anything to faith alone In the gospel

proclamation they are to be accursed.

And if Paul said that how can we say anything else?

Absolutely in our present day is not

that we're cursing someone

really big issue.

This is not some inunated

issue that we can just agree to disagree on.

This is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Amen and.

Why don't you let our listeners know why this Reformation is still in the third

millennium the 21st century.

Why is it important specifically for the local church?

Piggybacking on what we had talked about just a moment ago Is that I believe that there you know that the church today needs to

understand that we stand upon the shoulders of Men who have gone before us.

Mm -hmm.

So when we think about the Reformation Oftentimes we just think about a

cattle the

95 Wittenberg and then it wasn't until just

a one when he stood before the diet of worms

Indian

monk who

was

brought

before

Roman Catholic Church.

You have the leadership

of to be led through a

paid the large crowd before this dancer.

He understood two firms

with the

desire to stand for the gospel and he was not willing to compromise.

But he wanted to make sure that he understood what he would say and make sure he said it properly.

So they gave him to the very him back in a

ruling body.

They once again posed this question Will you recant of everything and that's when he gave his famous

bonds and he said I am bound by the scriptures I have quoted in my conscience is captive to the Word of

God.

Retract

any

more

right to go

cannot do of

that Roman Catholic Church

21 now from that point Reformation that continues to

move forward and so then you end up with a Tyndale who's just wants to get the Word of God

in English.

And so now you have people

seeing

him

burned

at the

stake why.

Because

standing against these people.

It was the Roman Catholic Church nation

is vital for

the local church and on

the shoulder.

Amen and.

There are accusations that those of us who cherish These great heroes of the

faith from the 16th century and even some prior the proto

reformers and some Subsequent to the Reformation, but they accuse us of Idolatry

that we are really worshipping these men and blindly Following what they teach.

Well, first of all, obviously since you and I are reformed Baptists We don't follow everything they

teach because most of them Were Pato Baptists or those who believed in infant baptism

and they even had At times quite harsh things to say against the

Anabaptists who believed that baptism was an ordinance for believers

only like you and I believe so.

Obviously, even though there may be some of our brethren who do sin in the area of idol worship

when it comes to the way they view These great men

There is a Berean spirit that many of us Seek to have where we don't just

buy everything hook line and sinker that they ever said or wrote because there were even disagreements

amongst the Reformers themselves.

But.

The Baptists can even cherish the Reformation because Soteriologically

They were there even as a correction to many of the theological abuses of

The Anabaptists even though we agreed Agree, I should say with them on the ordinance

of baptism in regard to who are the appropriate candidates for that ordinance We have

more in common in the area of doctrine and soteriology with the Reformers.

Isn't that a good way of Setting forth the fact that we who are Baptists can

still join other Heirs of the Reformation in celebrating this great

This great era of history.

Oh.

Absolute ripture, they're

going to be differences.

Varying differences on on various different as we think about

that aligned on the gospel.

And so that's what we're seeking to accomplish with say a conference for instance.

You know any conference you go to you're gonna who aren't going to agree on every

single you.

But the fact is we're aligned on the amen.

In fact, we're gonna.

In fact, let's go ahead.

I was just gonna say let's pick up on the conference right after our station break the g3 conference because we have to go to a break right

now and I'm sorry that interrupted you there if you could perhaps remember where you were going

to what you were going to say and we'll pick up right where you left off there and If anybody would like to

join us on the air with a question.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We already have a number of you waiting patiently to have your Questions asked and answered and we will get to you

as soon as we can when we return from the break.

So don't go away.

We will be right back with Pastor Josh Bice and Eventually, we're going to be discussing the theme

Andy Stanley's problem with the Bible.

So don't go away.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron if you just tuned in our guests today

for the full two hours today is Pastor Josh Bice.

He is senior pastor of praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

He is host of the blog delivered by grace .com and director of the g3

conference and Just to let you know something about this conference.

We're going to be going in greater depth About the conference very shortly God willing,

but this is going to be held January 19th through the 21st of

2017 17 to celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

This is going to be held in Georgia and the speakers include Paul Washer Stephen

J Lawson da Carson Votie Balcom James White Tim Challies

Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson.

Josh Bice who is our guest today.

David Miller?

Rosaria Butterfield David Hall Todd Friel John Kratz

Nathan Bucinitz Chip Thornton Chris King Anthony

Mathenia and Scott Klusendorf and For more details go to

g3 conference comm that's G and the number three Conference

.com and we hope that you can attend.

I hope that I can attend and I would love to meet many of you there and Praying that

the Lord brings that about and just to also let our listeners know that we've got several

Interviews already lined up with some of those speakers.

Todd Friel returns to iron sharpens iron.

He has become one of my very favorite guests.

He's gonna be on Monday August 15th.

God willing and he's gonna be discussing his brand new book hot off the press stressed out a

biblical approach to anxiety.

Then on the Monday August 22nd Rosaria Butterfield returns to iron sharpens

iron.

Many of you perhaps remember her recent interview with us where she gave her testimony About being

a leftist lesbian who came to Christ and renounced Those

sinful ideologies and is now even the wife of a Presbyterian pastor.

She is going to be on this time to discuss her second book Openness unhinged

that's Monday, August 22nd.

And on Friday September 2nd, Tim Challey's is going to be our guest on iron sharpens iron for the very first

time.

Tim and I have been trying to arrange an interview for quite a long time and something always arose

In our schedules that conflicted but thanks be to God We have that date scheduled

for now unless God has other plans.

But we trust that he will be on with us Friday September 2nd, and he these are just three

of the Speakers and we hope to get as many more as we can on the program again, and I've

already interviewed over half of These speakers, so I'm delighted to Meet

many of them again and some of them.

I've only spoken with over the phone.

So I'm looking forward to God willing meeting Them in person for the first time

those that I have not yet met.

But let me repeat our email address.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris Arnzen a gmail .com if you'd

like to join us with a question.

And I haven't forgotten you folks who are already waiting patiently at least.

I hope you're waiting patiently.

I know you're waiting anyway your questions asked and answered we will get to you shortly God

willing but If you could now Josh tell us something about

The g3 conference tell us about what that actually means g3 the history of the conference and

so on.

Absolutely, Chris.

The g3 conference is a theology call in the first year

this upcoming year 2007 to in the

beginning was to unashamed

Theology conference and so for three days we will gather in worship God together.

From his word and through the Word of God.

We will seek to know God.

Ali.

This is not some let's just get together conference we're

seeking to.

Take seriously the study of God's Word the proclamation of God's Word.

So we have breakout sessions.

We have a good lengthy lineup of

worship and singing the gospel of Christ together so in the beginning

what we were praying and.

So that people from all across the country and outside of the country come to the conference

and so it's sold out the first four years.

Year after year it would just

sell.

I've been we're

gonna be at the Jordan's

for gospel grace and glue a

theology conference.

And so we just want

to change the gospel teaching the gospel

solid ministries for three days every January.

Well, you have quite an extraordinary lineup of folks here it's just absolutely amazing 19

speakers and I've Interviewed I believe 11 of them

And gotten to know them and really have become Come to cherish

knowing them and some of them have actually become dear friends.

But this is I've never been to a conference that has quite this Long of a

roster and this quite this impressive of a roster at this length

this is really extraordinary and I'm thanking God that you are doing this and that the Lord

has has really put it upon your hearts To provide something of this caliber.

I'm looking forward to seeing My dear friend.

Dr. James are white of Alpha Omega Ministries there who has become a precious brother to me since

1995.

I've known him and orchestrated Quite a number of debates and speaking engagements

for him.

My friend Conrad and babe and Bayway from the kibbutz of Baptist Church in Lusaka Zambia, Africa.

I've known also since about 1995 when he preached at the church where I used to be a member on Long Island, New

York race reform Baptist Church, he is perhaps the most powerful preacher I have ever heard in my

life and I'm looking forward to meeting all of

those though, I've not yet met and and Sharing fellowship with them if God enables me to get there.

So G three conference comm is the website G as in George three.

That's the number three conference dot -com and we'll be hopefully repeating that throughout the broadcast

today.

Well, if if you think that we've adequately addressed the conference for now if you would like to move on to our

main theme Andy Stanley's problem with the Bible.

Well, first of all for our listeners Who don't know who Andy Stanley is probably most of them do.

But he is the very popular host of the television broadcast your move

With Andy Stanley, I believe it airs right after Saturday Night Live in many states

he is Quite a popular speaker.

He is the senior pastor of North Point Community Church Buckhead Church and

Browns Bridge Community Church, and he's also the founder of the worldwide Christian

organization North Point ministries and He is the son of Charles

Stanley world -renowned pastor Author and television

Evangelist in touch ministries is the ministry that Charles Stanley his father

founded and when I worked for WMC a radio in

New Jersey, it's now in New York City.

But the 15 years that I worked there, I think that every year Charles Stanley's program

was the number one program the most listened to program on that station and

So we are here to give a critique of Andy Stanley and many people

might be scratching their heads And saying what on earth is there there to critique?

I love this guy.

This guy is Revolutionized my Christian walk, etc, etc well,

tell us about Andy Stanley and What it is that makes you think

that he has a problem with the inerrant Word of God.

Strange to people

I read

an article back in May at the end of

one with the Bible.

And it did it did get quite a bit of attention and and caused some controversy.

I received emails even daily about it.

But the point I'm making is this.

I want to preface what I'm going to say in this segment.

And I want to be very clear.

I'm not accusing Andy Stan.

I'm not accusing Andy Stanley is

not a brother

in Christ at this

point.

I don't

have to

point.

I still have to embrace him as a brother.

Although I'm extremely concerned about where he stands on some of these some of these issues

that are very important.

He upon

himself by

the thing said

really

that's

interesting.

Like that.

He's actually bringing the controversy.

Yeah, and as I

said earlier in the program if somebody is a.

Global figure in the media and.

In.

Bookstores everywhere they they are open for critique by

Brethren in Christ, they're not untouchable.

In fact, it would be a disservice not only to the church but to all of humanity if Christians

allowed those who have the loudest voices in the media

and elsewhere if we let them get away with saying anything without Challenging even them

and of course their followers.

About these departures from orthodoxy.

We would be in sin ourselves.

Wouldn't we push backs that I've received in this

article?

I should follow Matthew chapter 18 when dealing with people like Andy Stanley.

Well, but you know the mission of Matthew 18.

Emily is not a member of our and

nor will you know an

account if he's not a member here.

It's not.

Make a rebuttal statement against someone who has published

something in the public eye.

It's not sinful to respond to them Publicly, so

I've what Matthew 18 is actually teaching.

All right.

Let me go start to go to some of our listener questions.

We have Susan in Covington, Tennessee and She is originally she

says from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, which is just about five minutes from where I'm sitting and

She says Andy Stanley's father Charles Seems to be a solid Bible preacher.

I have seen advertisements for the in touch crews including Andy

in their speaker lineup.

Why would someone like Charles want a man such as his son Andy who's preaching and teaching

is going off the deep end speaking on this cruise.

There are fewer Christians every day that can be trusted.

Very sad.

That's Susan in Covington, Tennessee, and that is a interesting comment and question.

The only thing that I know that was Dangerously aberrant about Charles Stanley the father of

Andy is that he militated against the doctrine of lordship salvation.

I know I mean I had other Disagreements with him.

He is not theologically reformed.

He rejects the doctrines of sovereign grace.

In fact I had a friend who used to pastor on Long Island who was a member of Charles's church

and he was a missionary and he was a five -point Calvinist and one day when Charles was on vacation He actually

had the opportunity to preach in Charles Stanley's church and he chose the subject of election and he

was told by the lady who ran the Tape room as they were called back then because there were no CDs or

mp3s or anything that more tapes of his sermon had been ordered

than in any of Charles's sermons in decades and He was banned from the

pulpit ever since then.

But I do obviously as you do have brethren in Christ who aren't reformed and we we

Although we seriously disagree with those things that there is something very serious about his departure from

lordship salvation.

But anything else that you would say about Charles before we move on to Andy which is all

Packed in together with this listeners question.

No, I mean, you know as far as Charles Stanley is concerned. He's been a well -respected for

many years very

much Allowing that John 316 conference and

supporting that type of that you know that type of conference against the

doctrines of grace.

But Andy Stanley's involvement with as far

as I know I don't

know I don't have any information as far as the the inter workings of their family life or anything of

that of that

is even if They differ on methodology and his

father that he loves his son.

Well, it is interesting one thing.

I forgot to mention obviously is that there was a time when they parted company

because Charles Stanley refused to even temporarily step down from his

post as senior pastor when his marriage was falling apart and the main reason apparently was that his

wife had said that he was married to his job and and That that was

made public so I'm not going to go any further than that but there seems to be a

Healing of wounds there because there was a rift at one time wasn't there?

Yes, there was but Charles Stanley and Andy Stanley appeared together on the same

platform at the Southern Baptist Convention.

And it just seems

like together service.

Well, guess what.

Susan and Covington, Tennessee.

Since you are a first -time.

Questioner, I don't know if you're a first -time listener or not.

But since you're a first -time questioner.

You're getting a free New American Standard Bible.

Compliments of the publishers of the New American Standard Bible.

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Who sponsor iron sharpens iron.

If you give us your full mailing address?

We will have that shipped out to you as soon as possible and that will be shipped out to you.

Compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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Just get us your full mailing address as soon as possible.

We have another first -time questioner also from Tennessee this one

from Memphis, Tennessee.

Johnny.

And.

He asked where did Andy get his ideas of unbelief in the Word of God?

Well, I don't think that he would claim that he doesn't believe in the Word of God, but perhaps you could even just

further unpack where he is aberrant and perhaps you may know of

Some influence on him that led him to these views.

Yes, so my answer to that question would be simply this I don't believe that.

Andy Stanley.

Cool

methodology.

His entire ministry is ran Through a you know a pragmatic

system times,

so it's

not

that he doesn't believe the Bible.

It's just that he goes about his teaching and preaching of the Bible from a very superficial and topical

Methodology, which I believe to be You know

insufficient

about

the Bible and when he

was addressed

to be a follower of Jesus.

I would not start with the Bible if anyone

said a resurrection.

But my point in my article that I how can you actually preach the

resurrection of Jesus Christ apart from the Bible.

So, you

know, it's through.

You can't come to God except you come to him through the right revelation.

That's been given to us in the Word of God.

So the Bible said sometime back at a

conference conference platforms

came from using the language the Bible.

John said.

The Bible is not trustworthy.

I think that we need to is pass it up a notch and to let people know that we care.

Amen, yeah, what you just said reminds me of a talk show host that he

was a nationally syndicated Christian talk show host on one of

the stations I used to work for and a very prominent

Network and this man actually had as a part of his rules

that if he Had a guest or if a listener called in to his show,

they could not quote from the Bible because his thrust of

Quote -quote ministry was that Christians can think for themselves and they don't need to

just parrot The Bible.

They can use logic and intellect and so on to me.

That's nothing more than trying to Appeal to the goats

in the world who hate the Bible and he is embarrassed that the pseudo

intellectual Anti -christians think that we're relying upon this relic

known as the Bible is a joke and It's to me.

To me.

It's just denying Your allegiance to the very Word of God and to God

himself.

Yeah, absolutely.

Either the Bible is the Word of God or each

the Word of God all where

they may.

Let's build our churches and our ministries our children's ministries.

Are you know, all of our ministries the foundation

of and.

Just to tie this in with Something that our listener in Memphis, Tennessee

asked Johnny.

Where did Andy get the these ideas?

Do you have any idea of who Andy Stanley's heroes.

May be that may have influenced him into thinking this way?

Yeah to be quite honest.

I'm sure he's you know, he's had access to an awful lot of people

off a

lot of.

Whatever works bad.

I was at the Southern Baptist Convention

a number of years ago and Andy Stanley was on the platform and he was I thought supposed to be

preaching the Bible, but he was about you know Pragmatic

schemes and and methods to grow your church and the line that he continued to

revisit through that entire.

Potions

like shit.

He was

saying

if we

can

there's one.

That's right.

We

meet

when they bowed.

Amen.

Well, we're gonna get to those of you who are still waiting to have your questions asked and answered after the break.

God willing.

And for anybody else who would like to join them with a question of your own.

On the air our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen a gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Barnes and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours We've already had him on

for an hour and we have an hour yet to go is pastor Josh Bice senior pastor

of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia, he's host of the blog

Delivered by grace calm and director of the g3 conference

Which is taking place in January of next year.

We are discussing as our main theme Andy Stanley is problem with the Bible.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail

.com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com by the way Pastor Josh.

I just remembered something interesting that that Pastor that I spoken that I

mentioned before who was a member of Charles Stanley's Church Who was banned from the pulpit because of this?

Sermon on election when he when he was pastoring on Long Island.

That was the very first place that James White our mutual

friend of Alpha Omega ministries Debated a Muslim.

I orchestrated that debate with Hamza Abdul Malik Back

in the late 1990s or early 2000s, I don't remember the exact date.

But it was interesting James doesn't and include that debate as his first Muslim debate

because at that time He knew very little about Islam and was defending the

deity of Christ in the debate and it's amazing how Things have

changed when he's one of the foremost Debaters on the issue of Islam in the world and

has read the Quran many times over now and I have also orchestrated

debates with dr. White and Muslims where it was clear in the debate that he knew more about the

Quran than they did and Quite an embarrassment for them and quite a victory for the

gospel for dr. White.

But he is definitely a gifted brother in Christ.

That's for certain.

Yes, he is.

In fact while we're talking about James White Let me mention this just to give your listeners

for weeks Lord willing, but we are actually

between James White and someone within the Roman Catholic Church on the subjects of

The Reformation so that the key central issues related to justification by faith alone and

things of that nature.

So.

Those who might be listening could again connect with us through social media and we will be making that

announcement very soon.

Great.

Oh, so you already have a Roman Catholic has agreed to do it.

Well, we we have been in talks and we're trying to get to come and what we're what

we're seeking to do is put this Debate this formal debate on the Wednesday evening right

before.

Well, I.

Now I'm even more excited about the possibility of going there.

I Have for for a decade.

I enter.

I arranged debates on Long Island with dr White and Roman Catholic apologists

and that was became known as the great debate series and they were quite a

remarkable series of of debates and actually got to

Know and become friends with Roman Catholics as a result of those debates because they realized

That this was not anything to do with hate this was about both sides seeking

truth.

Now, obviously only one side could be right since the issues debated were in

polar opposite to each other as far as the views adhered

to.

But.

It is good to see when anybody has a Berean spirit

and are interested in finding out more about truth and I hope that the Lord blesses

that conference in that debate.

Mightily, I know that many Roman Catholics shy away from debating James these days because they know

his track record.

So hopefully something will come about in a positive fashion with that.

We have a listener from Kinross, Scotland.

Murray Who asks how would you counsel any coming to Praise Mill Baptist

Church from one of Andy Stanley's churches?

I mean this both from the point of view of helping those who come and Protecting from error

those already with you in membership.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

That's Murray in Kinross, Scotland.

So the question Chris is how would I counsel my church?

Well, let's be read it again.

He says how would you counsel any coming to Praise Mill Baptist Church?

From one of Andy Stanley's churches, so he's actually saying how would you counsel these people who are leaving?

One of Andy Stanley's.

Congregations that he founded and they're coming over to Praise

Mill.

Well, it's required.

So you would have to go through that class.

You would have to understand as we go through that membership class.

We seek to communicate what it is we believe doctrinally how we teach as far as our

methodology and our philosophy of ministry and We allow for

seeking membership

to what we officially believe and how

we following that class.

What we

do is we act

through that one

coming from one of his campuses or one of his churches and what we would say.

So we're a multi -site

camp and honest with those people

and then find out if it's going to be a good match for them.

And if it's not then we would just communicate that, you know up front rather than going through the process of see

them.

Unfortunately leave when they disagreed.

Thank you very much Murray and keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron in Scotland and beyond.

I always love it when I have overseas listeners.

Contacting us with a question.

We have Tyler and mastic Beach, Long Island, New York.

Who asks.

I was once at a young adult Bible study and Andy Stanley was the teacher.

He barely made reference to Scripture and used worldly principles.

Is he infamous infamously known for this?

Well, yes, in fact, you know preach he was quoting from

Chick -fil -a.

He was quoting from ration.

So he definitely has a pattern this direction.

You know, that's my major critique of Andy Stanley.

His problem with the Bible is is that he's using the Bible in a very Topical and superficial manner rather than

just you know, getting down to business, you know.

The Bible said, you know when Paul comes together

and we see that in the book of time there with him that he

had actually God's

Word to a lot of different preachers I think

there's going to be a lot of past or the judgment seat of Christ.

They have to apologize for not teach.

What was the? Controversy fairly recently where Andy Stanley was

rebuking Christians for remaining in small congregations.

Yeah, so there was a video internet where

in a conference to

a large church that

if you don't go to a large church You are so and you don't care

and what he was have large

you to

communicate

and I

just

think that he

suggested.

Well, did he ever recant.

He actually did he he tried to crawfish when when he received a lot of pushback and

You know, he came out as stating that he didn't actually mean something quite different.

You go back and listen.

I think you just taught me a new southern slang term that I've never heard before crawfish.

I've never heard that used in the way that you just used it.

I love crawfish by the way.

I miss I miss a Cajun restaurant actually two Cajun restaurants that used to be in my name near my

Island.

But anyway.

Yeah, well first of all, it's it's it's really there's a height of arrogance for someone

who is the son of a world -renowned best -selling author

televangelist to Be able to leave that church and immediately start a

church with a packed house.

You know, and I mean it's the the to compare that with a a church plant

of a by a normal unknown But faithful man of God where

it may start with just a handful of people and so on.

I mean, that's really absurd and arrogant on his part to even make such a statement, I mean

Those who don't have the benefit of having famous parents.

Where you're just have a built -in Advertising or public relations

campaign that would flood your auditorium.

You know, obviously even some of the the best of large churches that are biblically

sound started out with a handful of people.

Yes.

Yep, you know, I think that we can be very guilty

idolatry.

We can idolize a large church.

The large,

you know church

pastor people that might be speaking to refrain

from you know.

Lifting people up to

that.

God will one day that we might never know their name.

Right, and of course the reason why a lot of faithful churches are small is because they're

preaching truths that are unpopular in the 21st century.

You think I?

I mean, dr. James White.

I keep name -dropping here, but he is a close friend, but His church, I don't think has ever

exceeded 200 people and I don't even think those 200 would be members.

You know you have people and he and he is in a land in Arizona a land of mega

churches.

So anyway, that's that's quite a tragedy when That kind of numbers game

is being used as a sign of orthodoxy or Faithfulness or

something.

It's just ridiculous.

Correct, and I even know some solid men who think that That the

larger churches it could be come very dangerous because you cannot properly shepherd

Churches when they become overwhelmingly large, but.

Well, you can you can actually do that.

It's going to take.

And then

you start

just the Apostles

working together in essence

as the elders who are overseeing and leading the church.

It can be done effectively.

It just has to be done biblically.

Amen, and one of the things that is a hallmark of a lot of even

evangelical churches today and I'm not going to presume this upon Andy

Stanley because I don't really know that much about him in regard to this issue that I'm going to bring

up, but there are a lot of professed evangelical

leaders who are very Soft on this sin

of homosexuality which actually is So soft

that it actually puts those unrepentant men and women involved in that

activity in great spiritual peril because they're really not being told of the

necessity of repentance from that activity obviously.

You and I I'm sure would be in agreement that we're not supposed to be overtly cruel and

mean -spirited and hateful To anybody let alone those involved in a homosexual behavior.

And of course you we have these.

Evil.

Individuals in the God hates fags group of the Westboro Baptist Church who have such

exuberant joy over the thought of people going to hell.

You have to question whether they're regenerate but.

The opposite problem seems to be obviously the more widespread thing where people tiptoe

around that sin.

As if they are as the liberals want us to believe just another

community of people like blacks Hispanics Asians and Native

Americans and so on.

I mean, it's it's really become really troubling and

Where is Andy Stanley if you know on the issue of preaching against that sin?

Well the only thing that we can say as far as you know hands on

these issues.

It's what he's actually said or you might say the troubling thing is what he has not said.

Andy Stanley mercy when he

talked about Homosexuality without talking he

actually preached a sermon and the sermon title was when Gracie met true.

He described a couple in his church in great detail there.

It was

adultery now

again.

You just have

to and they

had been engaged in

this in

the lines if you will.

But the problem is he just never addressed it.

He was called out by people like Albert Moeller and others.

But once again the

center the other

side of the Supreme as you

framed it are they be

welcomed into the church such as?

Evangelical Church, and that's oddly going against the grain of the New

Testament.

When we look at first Corinthians chapter 6 for instance we see the Apostle Paul

Gribing people in the church, and he's describing their previous condition.

Again, he he talks about the fact that he's giving them a command don't be deceived.

And then he talks about and he warns them about the sin of sexual immorality.

He talks about the sin of idolatry and adultery and he talks about the sin of homosexuality.

But in in 1st Corinthians chapter 6 in that very passage The key verse is

verse 11 because he comes down and he says in such were you

were justified In the name of the Lord

and by the Spirit they

were right

what God

we have

to say

and now

you are

Changed by Jesus Christ firm on these

issues in our present culture.

Don't you think that?

Many well -meaning Christians and even Pastors and preachers and evangelists

in trying so desperately to Only offend with the gospel and not

offend in other ways.

They go overboard in the way that they treat Those who

are homosexual or those involved in homosexual activity I should say To spare

their feelings and will even buy into much of the vocabulary of the world like

referring to people as being a part of the homosexual or gay

community and Using that kind of language.

I mean we don't say for those of you in the adulterer Community or the thief community

or the drunkard community?

Why are we using that kind of language when we're referring to those involved in homosexuality and that

that kind of activity.

Yeah, I think the answer to that is because we've completely capitulated on the issue of

Our culture almost modern in view,

but not now we

have this

lifestyle

mean for

our

culture

later to that

but that there is a tsunami that's coming to what next

now if anyone claims to be Oriented

and anything else now,

we're gonna be knocking on the door of the Supreme Court

Swaying and

that's

because in our culture and if our culture says it's legal then now we have

to Move over make room off now.

Don't you think there's also?

An.

Improper broad brushing of sin where yes, it is true

that any and all sin that is not covered with the blood of Christ will send a

man or woman to hell and we are not to be Pharisees and look upon our

sins as Unimportant or miniscule or acceptable.

And we point to other people and say look at these horrible Humans just like the Pharisee in the

parable in the temple where you have the Pharisee Contrasted with the prayer of the tax collector be

or be merciful to me a sinner.

Well, the the Pharisee was just bragging about the things that he did do and did not do but at the same time.

Don't you think there is too much?

Of a perhaps even an overreaction to Roman Catholicism's mortal

and venial sin distinctions and so on we have evangelicals making it just as serious to.

Be a.

Glutton at a barbecue or to lose your temper with your child.

That's just as serious as being an actively involved unrepentant homosexual.

I mean these things are getting to be absurd when we broad brush sin like that if you follow what I'm

saying.

Oh, absolutely.

You can go

ahead and mark

of

language is not

very helpful when you think

about what

right laws

are breaking.

They're

different

have a lasting effect in

might be so.

Yeah, I think that we need to refrain from that type of language of just saying

well, you know, that's

still the and nobody really.

Consistently behaves that way No matter what they say if they're trying to make all

sin equal.

They're not going to treat the child that steals his little brother's toy The same way as if

he cut his little brother's hand off, you know, I mean nobody behaves that way.

But I actually we have to go to our final break right now and We have a few more people still waiting to have their

questions asked and we will be with you as soon as we can.

But our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com if you'd like to join them and have your own question asked and answered

on the air if we have time Before we run out at the six o 'clock Eastern

Time mark.

We're gonna be right back with Josh Bice after these messages so don't go away.

I wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes and the next half hour to come we have been and

will be interviewing Josh Bice senior pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in

Douglasville, Georgia host of the blog delivered by grace .com.

That's delivered by grace .com and director of the g3 conference

which is being held in January of 2017.

And we hope that you can join us there at this conference and for more details

on it.

The website is g3 conference.

Calm and that's G as in gospel 3 and that's a number 3 conference.

Calm and we hope to see you there and appreciate your prayers for that conference

and.

And.

Once again, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

If you'd like to join us before we run out of time on today's program we do have a listener who has

a question that is So good, even though it's off topic.

I Will ask it and this is from Seth in Randleman, North Carolina.

What three books would you recommend for a new convert?

Obviously besides the Bible, well, that's a very

I would recommend.

Our best life now would be number one.

Sorry about that.

I.

Would also read The

Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan in the classic and it's it's about the Christian journey.

And I think that a lot of

times just an easy journey through

the wonderful, you know an easy

life.

And I think that John Bunyan was riding from a very broken

life and it

helps us understand

that we're gonna face off

a lot Of

problems

along the

journey

and that

the

people I

think

that

sure.

Yeah, I

interviewed

Richard years

ago.

Yeah, that short book introduced people to the doctrines of grace and helped them

to Start to grapple with those issues.

So I think a new convert needs to be

discipled.

Yes, and.

Obviously if There are people coming out of different backgrounds of the book might

Be important to Reflect the background from which that person has departed.

Like for instance a former Roman Catholic who has come to Christ might want to read.

Dr. James R. White's the Roman Catholic controversy Right, which is a phenomenal

book and he also wrote an excellent Book on the doctrines

of grace called the Potter is freedom Which is really an extraordinary

book and I obviously could have recommend everything that he wrote and also Going back

over a hundred years in the 19th century We have Charles Haddon Spurgeon who you couldn't go wrong with anything that he

wrote not that he is infallible or was infallible, but Pretty much

his his published works.

There's very little in there that you would need to worry about.

I'm sure you would agree with that as well.

Absolutely.

We have Somebody who is obviously using a nickname

Lamb lamb From New York who says a

Christ centered gospel centered is the theme of the Bible and thus of the church

preaching and ministry goal in.

Which.

Emphasize.

It is that mankind are sinners and only by the grace of God.

Through the salvation of Jesus Christ by faith alone in Jesus alone.

We are helpless in doing good while emphasizing grace alone in Christ alone to salvation.

How are you going to help the children of God after committed sin great or small?

To honestly distinguish apart if it was the result of weakness or just an excuse

for abusing the grace.

Or how would you suggest practical?

Information for self -examination.

Okay.

Well, yeah.

Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Now the thing that we're talking about

and I think it's important

Antinomianism is

the idea

that problem is you can't you can't stop there.

You must continue to read and hear what the Apostle Paul says, and he also said that we're not

Allowed to use grace as a license to we need to have a good

balancing act between the law.

And but he

did not we

need to live

lives.

We read a New Testament and see how these letters these epistles often begin.

We need to define what that word servant is that word do lie.

We are

under if you love me keep my commandments.

Well, Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments and we're obduration.

I would just challenge people and people that I you know pastor here within our own church context if they

are living lives of Unrepentant

conscience is not harmed in any way.

I just encourage people that say pastor I'm struggling with

my salvation.

How do I have the assurance of salvation?

First of all, we can have but I point them instead

of

pointing

them to

Spurgeon or Calvin

driving to I

think first John

in an

ongoing

Self examination to see an awful lot of people

have been baptized.

But unfortunately right now is

where that we're not, you

know before we go

to a couple more listener questions.

I would like you to talk about some of the Topics that

will be addressed at the next g3 conference.

Reformation 500.

Sure.

We don't

have

all

of

it.

You might not be able to I mean by that is they can work

that they would like to go to be there and she'll Be

leading melody in

our present culture and how we reach

unbelievers in that in that particular going to be

Leading breakout session preaching and

in various different things.

So there's going to be a wide range and anyone who's

listening,

right?

And.

We do have a listener.

Actually, you mentioned a name that Involves our next listeners question.

CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

It says I really enjoyed your last interview with Rosaria Butterfield

very much and Please understand.

I am NOT accusing your guest of violating the scriptures.

But I was wondering if he could just explain something.

I know that you Mr. Arnzen and most of your guests are

very opposed to a modern trend and evangelicalism called egalitarianism

where there are no gender roles distinguished from one another in the

church.

Therefore since the Apostle Paul Says that he forbids a woman to teach or have

authority over a man How do you explain to those bringing up that

prohibition.

When you announce someone like Rosaria Butterfield speaking at your conference, I understand

that she Does not have any authority over those in attendance, but she is teaching men

who are there.

Well, that's a very good question.

Well, first of all, I'm in

the church.

I don't think that that's certainly not within that camp.

I did recently write an article why it is.

I think that we should refrain from Supporting her ministry because I'm

regards to these very issues.

So yeah, we're not into the

G3 conference and preach.

She will not be what we we don't elevate women

to a level of Teaching and

local church

content talk about what she's written.

She's not going to be teaching.

She's not going to be preaching and she will be answering a lot of questions for

those like her.

Yeah.

And just because men may learn from something that she says doesn't mean she is in

the role of a teacher of men.

You know, if you were listen to Beth Moore when she is at conferences,

she does so blah blah

blah.

And then she goes on to do just that to hold Authority over men because it's impossible to teach

and preach the Bible without.

That is not

what she's not going to stand up and ask for us to turn to a passage of

Scripture and then start to teach

in Christ and.

Talk about what and then also talk.

Yeah, and

I know.

Our.

Friend and modern -day hero of mine Dr. John MacArthur

Is no fan of egalitarianism and yet he will have Johnny Erickson Tata do much the

same as Rosaria is doing at your conference.

Johnny Erickson Tata Johnny, by the way is a woman for those of you unfamiliar with her.

She is a quadriplegic and a very gifted woman.

Very gifted sister in Christ not only in her writing and speaking.

But she is a gifted artist and so on.

But she is also a member of Grace Community Church where dr John MacArthur pastors and

and he Has her speak there in the same fashion or capacity that you are

having Rosaria?

Obviously different topics, but.

But he would not obviously ever dream of violating Biblical gender roles in doing

so.

Well, I want to make sure that you have at least five minutes now to unburden your heart

to leave our listeners with what you most want etched in their hearts and minds

before we leave the program today and if We have time for one or two more questions from listeners.

We'll take them, but I really want to make sure that you Leave our listeners with what you have on

your mind as being of the utmost importance today.

Talked about the g3 conference as we talked about

Reformation as we think about the gospel I think

it's think about Jesus

endless life a life

that we

were in life

and experience without sinning.

Upholding the complete full law of God pleasing God

and yet being accused of blasphemy

you know an imposter to be betrayed

and falsely accused and to be

despised and to be Crucified on

a river

bow

their

need.

Therefore I would simply

state against

the Roman Catholic Church today.

It's because when Jesus said this did not need any help from any

person or any church.

Didn't need any help from

I bring

about the

salvation

be

done

to say

can trust

by

salvation

and come to

God.

Praise God.

Well, thank you for that and we have time for one more listener Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania

who asked I tuned in late, but I understand that your main theme was some of

the wrong views of Andy Stanley, can you tell us at least two

of the most serious before you go off the air?

You know

Pragmatism theology.

I think that you're in shallow church an awful lot about

Andy Stanley's church.

I'm not going to speak to that, but I'm just going to say that I know that that is a very dangerous

Theology hello church, you might have a mile

wide, but it's only going to be an inch deep.

God's Word.

So then you're obviously gonna avoid

so if you're not teaching the full counsel of God's Word It's

going to be very

easy to just bypass the Tory

fashion and then the past easy verse.

Amen.

Well, I just want to repeat the G3 conference website is G3 Conference

.com.

That's G as in gospel 3.

That's the number 3 conference .com and praise mill Baptist Church

website is Praise mill calm PR a y s mill

.com.

It has been such a joy Pastor Bice to have you on the program.

I look forward to having you back.

In fact, if you wouldn't mind staying on the phone when we go off the air.

So I could see if I could schedule you for our next interview.

Perhaps we could go more into depth with Beth Moore.

Absolutely, Chris has been an honor to be with and I want to just let

everybody know.

That I want you to remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.

We hope you tune in tomorrow to iron sharpens iron for our guest world -renowned author Dr. George Grant.

God bless you, and we look forward to receiving your questions tomorrow.