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March 8, 2019:
Dr. James R. White of Alpha & Omega Ministries to discuss:
“The POPE, The GRAND IMAM, & The JOINT DECLARATION on HUMAN FRATERNITY”
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister, George Norcross, in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.
Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this eighth day of March 2019.
And you know, many of you may remember that every time there's been a special landmark in the history of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my guest, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, has been involved in it, beginning with our debut broadcast in 2005, our relaunching debut in 2015, and today, he's our guest when we have our brand new opening for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, which you've just heard.
Thanks to some fine Christian folks who voluntarily did this just because of their love for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I want to thank Will C., the new announcer for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio intro, Jason Martin, who produced this creation that we had in the beginning, he's a producer and sound engineer, Richard Shukin was on lead guitar, Tyler Friesen on drums, and Davis Friesen on bass, and Jason Martin contacted me about a year ago and he said, you know, we did the opening for Dividing Line that James White hosts, and we would love to do your opening, and then, God willing, we will have that done for you.
And about a year later, we got that opening, and I'm very grateful because I really love that opening. And by the way, I want to also thank the lead guitarist for Skinny Molly, which is a group that is a collaboration between members of Lynyrd Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet.
Jay Johnson, whose father is actually legendary blues guitarist Jimmy Johnson, Jay and his wife Sandy, I met them providentially in Birmingham, Alabama at Chez Fon Fon restaurant when I was there for one night while returning home from Laurel, Mississippi, and Jay is a phenomenal guitarist.
I shared the opening that Jason Martin and his friends created for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and he loves it, and he actually gave some suggestions as to the timing of when the announcer came in and the music, which has been utilized for this final product.
And also, Pete Orta, lead guitarist of Petra, former lead guitarist of Petra, said he absolutely loves the opening, too, so thanks, guys. But now, it's my honor and privilege to welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.
Good to be with you, Chris.
And I am excited that we have a very controversial issue that we are going to be addressing today, the Pope, the Grand Imam, and the Joint Declaration on Human Fraternity. And Dr. James R. White, before we even go into that, I mean, there's probably maybe only about one or two people on the planet Earth who listen to this show who might not be very familiar with Alpha and Omega Ministries.
Why don't you just share a summary of what Alpha and Omega Ministries is?
Wow. Well, we're the other people, Mormonism, and then expansion of Islam, Bible translation. You get done dealing with something when your caveat is, uh, it's just sort of, just sort of.
Yes, I remember I had a fascinating discussion on Islam with our mutual friend, Eddie Del Corp one day, and I was on the phone having this discussion, and it just dawned on me in the middle of the conversation that I was having a straight razor shave by a Turkish.
Barber while I was doing this.
That is not a joke. But he was a very nice and very talented barber. Thank God. But we, I just thank God that I have been blessed by your friendship and collaborating with you in Christ's Vineyard since 1995, and I busted a gut that I think most of my neighbors must have heard me laughing today when I sent a private message on the Facebook to James White to remind him to call into the studio five minutes before the show started, and he said, who are you and how did you get this number?
And of course, that goes by, that goes back to our first phone conversation.
Which we did at what, about 90 95. 95? Okay.
Yeah.
It might've been a little bit early. It might've been 94, but we had the debate in 96, did we not, the first debate with Jerry.
Matitek?
I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I had called James to invite him to debate Jerry Matitek's on the Marian Dogmas on Long Island, New York in 95, and after a pause of silence on the phone, he said, how did you get this number? Which totally put me at ease that this was going to be a wonderful conversation.
You weren't at ease until Which was, I'm sorry I'm late, I didn't have.
Time to prepare for today's debate. I have my entire library in storage.
Yep, yep.
I feel like David fighting Goliath today.
Yep, yep, yep. I pretty much, I pretty much, I could've written his opening statement. I really could've.
And then years later, I'm sitting in my office listening to a tape of a debate that Eric Svensson had with Jerry Matitek's years after the debate that you had on Long Island, and I'm listening and all of a sudden I hear Jerry say, you know, I want to apologize folks for being late today.
I had so many things that I had to do, and my library's in storage, and I feel like David fighting Goliath. I was like, what? I said, doesn't he realize these are recorded?
Well, I think the exact same thing about Bart Ehrman. He just said what when he and I did the fixer. So it's just sort of like, I knew where he was going, you know, all I had to do That's another subject for another time.
Yeah, and of course there's a difference between a standard joke that you might use and something that you are telling as factual reasons why you might not be as prepared as you should.
Be.
There's a totally different issue there.
Yeah, and I have not heard Jerry do a debate. I don't know what he's doing. Honestly, you know the last time I
When was that?
On Jeopardy.
Wow, when was that?
Oh, I'd say about four or five years ago.
He was on Jeopardy.
It was the be-all and end-all of all. So I'm sure he's still running around.
Yes, and the last, I don't know how many years ago, I think it was, I think it was about his activities. He had debated a Seda Vacantist before he was one, and that's the first time that I heard of a debate where one of the participants actually converted over to his opponent's ideology or theology.
That was a while ago.
That was
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because he's been some weird You know, we're talking about stuff that people in the audience have no idea we're talking about either. No, well
Well, I speak to you so rarely these days. I like to catch up with you.
There you go.
But
As you know, I'm a grandfather. I've got four grandkids.
Wow, wow.
Well, tell her I said hello, and looking forward to the next opportunity I have to see her again and also to see Kelly again. So
And you've had Summer on, right?
Yes, just once, and I'd like to have her back. She was almost near her It wasn't that long after her debut of Sheologians, I don't think.
Oh, they're in their Right. Yeah.
I definitely will, and it's interesting how many people I have met at the G3 conference and other big events when I'm manning an exhibitor's booth, and they'll say to me, hey, you're the guy that does the debates with James White.
You emcee those debates and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I heard about James White through Summer White.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had someone ask a question at the last conference I was at, so I'm like, yeah, that's cool. Many people in the audience said get up, so they definitely got it.
Well, we are talking, as I announced at the beginning of the program today, about an issue that I wanted to address because I had a number of my listeners contact me and say, when are you going to talk about this joint declaration that Pope Francis signed with a grand imam?
And I know that you had covered it to a more shorter version of it, of a presentation on this, on February 5th in the dividing line. It was an ultra-mega dividing line, almost three hours long, but you had a lot of topics.
This was only a small portion of that show, so I figured, well, let me have James back on the show to discuss this at a greater length, and we'll have audience questions as well. And, by the way, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com if you have a question for James.
Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Okay.
So, this document that I have seen described on a prominent Catholic website was, and I think I've heard it, or read it, under different specific titles, but this was called, on this particular website, the Joint Declaration on Human Fraternity, and obviously Pope Francis was involved.
Tell us about this grand imam who was involved, and tell us, you know, exactly what that even means, grand imam. There are a lot of people that, for some reason, because they know the Roman Catholic Church has a pope, they think every other religion has some kind of a pope, you know, some one main figure that is their go-to guy for the ultimate answer and final decision on things.
I can remember Bob Posch, my friend who now lives in Colorado, but you remember Bob Posch, Roman Catholic friend of mine who's still a dear friend, who actually indirectly helped me launch the decade-long series of the great debates that you had with Roman Catholics on Long Island, and my Catholic friend Bob Posch used to say to me, Oh, you just go by everything that your Pope Billy Graham says.
And I would respond, Bob, I'm a Reformed Baptist, and I'm sure there were much, far more priests, bishops, and cardinals involved in the Billy Graham Crusades than there are Reformed Baptists.
That's true, that's true.
But tell us about that, this grand imam. What is that, even, to start with, a grand imam?
Well, you know, a lot of money in what would flash in authority in Saudi Arabia or the U .S. looking for and keeping things to people, but the leadership seeking to, I'll tell you, the same level as even within Roman Catholicism.
I mean, there's a couple that we'll get to that conservative Roman Catholics shake their heads or just go, well, there goes Francis again. But, you know, you have imams who have positions of great authority, whether it be within scholarship or whether it be within the judicial decisions, fatwas, things like that.
But there's a lot of divisions in his statements. But then there would be others that would go, well, you know, I'm not really concerned about what he has to say. This isn't the same kind of, I was speaking with an imam, as an imam, as long as you do the prayers of any, what we would, hence, you can't really do anything like what we would call them.
And that's why we ask questions. If you proclaim a fellow Muslim as a kafir, or that he was not, you're the one that will be punished with what he would have been punished in light of even their teaching.
You'll argue, they argue about eschatology. Well, listen to...
What was the intention, that you can understand anyway, in getting together with Pope Francis, getting together with the grand imam for this joint declaration on human fraternity? It's funny because I know folks, friends of mine, and acquaintances who responded to this with, you know, I got bombarded with emails and texts and private messages about this monumental thing in their minds that has occurred, monumental in a horrible way.
And I basically responded, well, have you read the modern Roman Catholic catechism? I mean, this is not really something new in regard to some kind of appearance of unity that Muslims have with the Catholic Church.
And in fact, if you go to the modern Catholic catechism, many people are unfamiliar with this, even some Catholics, but in Article 841, the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator in the first place, amongst whom are the Muslims.
These profess to hold to the faith of Abraham, and together with us, they adore the one merciful God, mankind's judge, on the last day. And I brought that up years ago in the old Iron Trip and Zion Radio broadcasting out of Long Island, when I had David Wood debating Bassam Zawadi, and I asked Bassam Zawadi, do you adore the same one merciful God with the Roman Catholics?
Absolutely not.
Right, right. Yeah, yeah, and I'm a deep thinker. We did one debate on both sides.
Oh, you mean will non-Christians enter heaven?
Rutland.
Yeah, and even these monumental articles, if you can—all these popes have no meaning to it. In fact, it's in this document, and it's the other side.
Now, what was—going back to my original question about the purpose of it—why did Pope Francis or the Vatican say, we've got to sit down with a grand imam and have this joint declaration? What was the real purpose of it?
I have no idea. I would assume—I do not know. I'm a full man.
I could just picture in my mind, before the document was signed, a room filled with the cardinals and bishops and Muslims and imams, and having Pope Francis stand up in the midst of them and say, this is supposed to be a happy occasion.
Let's not bicker and argue about who said what and who killed who from the old Monty Python show.
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I'm trying to get people not to use that term anymore. A wild-eyed leftist in his theology and his politics. And so, I don't know if we will—.
And who wrote that? Wow.
I'm not trying to deal with that. I don't—you just have—on what the faith was defined and probably a universal opportunity for this document that he has made that does seem to point toward a universalistic concept.
So maybe—I do know that it might be that it would be more difficult for the Roman Catholic side to substantiate any kind of—when you've got Francis going around, oh, homosexuality? Who am I to say? You know, it's just Catholic Answers staff video with some other girl called Taking the Red Pill.
How about realizing that what we've been saying all along is true, but no, it's—well, you know, this isn't going to last forever and blah, blah, blah. It's pretty hard to be making the types of arguments that Karl Keating and Jerry Madetich and all these guys—when you've got Pope Francis giving you headaches every single day.
That's why Jerry Madetich doesn't make those arguments anymore and says the chair of Peter is vacant.
Right. That's where he's safe. I told you.
Right.
And, well, we're going to go to our first break right now. By the way, did that Catholic Answers staff member who made that comment about the red pill, is that why he's a former staff member?
Well, I, you know—.
Okay, because my friend Robertson Jennis, who you know very well since you've debated him a number of times—.
Five times.
Bob shared with me that he was fired from EWTN for publicly being critical of Pope John Paul II, especially in regard to ecumenism with pagan priests and, you know, Wiccans and kissing the Koran and all that kind of thing.
And he got the door for that. But as much as I disagree with Bob, I do appreciate his willingness to try to be as honest as he can with the information that he has, no matter where the chip's for. But we're going to our first break right now.
If you have a question, you'll have to get in line because we do have a number of people already waiting now to have their questions asked and answered by Dr. James R. White. But if you have a question, please send it as soon as you can to chrisorensen at gmail .com.
C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. Chris Orensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.
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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and we are addressing today something that created waves all over the world with religiously-minded people, and that is the Pope, the Grand Imam, and the Joint Declaration on Human Fraternity.
Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Please give us, as always, your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
And, Dr. White, we have a first-time questioner today, and it just so happens that it is somebody that I mentioned in the beginning of the program who loves the new intro of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, created by Jason Martin and the rest of the musicians involved in that really phenomenal new intro that we have.
I'm speaking of the former lead guitarist of Petra, Pete Orta, in Denison, Texas, and he has a two-part question for you. Is the Roman Catholic Church still against their members interpreting the Bible for themselves, meaning the priest is the only one allowed to interpret the Holy Scriptures?
That's the first part of his question.
Well, it seems you don't hear, well, you need the magisterium because... Right. And it just does not seem to me that the idea of objecting to the problem is the one who is going to be doing that interpreting into exactly how these beliefs... the old views of Roman Catholicism, the types of views that we...
And, of course, his question specifically said, is the priest the only one allowed to interpret the Holy Scriptures? And you will have multitudes of Catholic apologists say, in response to anyone mentioning that their local parish priest is a nut who believes in all kinds of crazy liberal left-wing things, well, what he says doesn't really mean anything.
Right, yeah, no, and obviously the olden-day local priest was...
Yes, and the problem that the Roman Catholic Church has when they accuse us of having a blueprint for anarchy in Sola Scriptura, they don't have an infallible interpreter for their alleged infallible interpreter.
Well, exactly, yeah.
Oh, that was Patrick that coined that? I thought it was a Scott Hahn for some reason.
I first heard him using that in that debate. In, what, 91?
And Pete Orta's follow-up question is, and if the Church is still against this, meaning private interpretation or reading the Bible on your own and exegeting it and so on, how do the priests handle it?
Are you excommunicated still in today's modern times? I think it takes an awful lot to get excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.
You're not the only people who get excommunicated, or either people who get called a fidei dogma, and against that, you take these folks out. I did hear that, yeah, excommunication...
And you will typically see the most notorious of pro-abortionists and pro-same-sex marriage advocates on Ash Wednesday in the media with the cross of ash on their foreheads, and there's no public, official denunciation of these people who are viewing the murder of children as a sacrament, practically.
Pretty much, yeah.
And let's see, Pete Orta says, and yes, Dr. James, I do know who you are, and we have a couple of things in common, reform theology and cycling.
Oh!
And he says, bonus question, what's the longest distance you have ever been on a bike? Me, 105 miles.
Colorado.
Appropriate name for that.
Yeah, yeah, well, especially when you do the double-triple bike. You do that ride.
Well, thank you, Pete Orta, and we look forward to your return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio for another interview. You did a phenomenal job the last time you were on, the last two times, actually. We have another first-time questioner, Kevin from Philadelphia.
Is there a Christian justification for us to join with members of different religions to assent to a declaration affirming against social dogmas such as abortion or same-sex marriage, or would they be compromises of our faith in the name of ecumenism?
Yeah, and I sort of figured we'd be there by now. We are, how do you do that? If you look at it carefully, even globally, the Muslim, the law of God is coming again.
Even for somebody faithful to the Council of Trent.
You look at something like in the one, obviously.
Well, we have to go to our midway break right now. It's the longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, airs this program, and they need to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to the Lake City, Florida area with their own public service announcements and commercials.
So while we are airing our commercials that are global, and they are airing theirs, which are local, please use this time to not only write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because we depend on the advertising dollars of our sponsors in order to exist.
So please try to patronize them as frequently and as heavily as you can, but also write down questions for Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. They can involve this joint declaration. They can involve Roman Catholicism.
They can involve Islam. They can involve anything regarding to reform theology. And I hope that you who are waiting already online to have your questions asked, I hope that you wait patiently, and we'll get to each and every one of you that time will allow.
So don't go away, God willing. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of Dr. James R. White.
My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries. I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Masters Seminary in Los Angeles.
I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor. It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown Manhattan.
You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.
Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc. Have a great day.
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I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 1 -27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows in their affliction.
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Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443. Or bbclaurel .com. Thank you.
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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co-host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
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Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time. That means you can get to the good stuff faster.
It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith-insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors. Their website is CVBBS .com.
Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the Church, and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.
That's CVBBS .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
And CVBBS .com is now under new ownership, and they are continuing in their sponsorship of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We'll give you more details on that in the days to come. But if you want to call CVBBS .com to place your order instead of doing it online, their toll-free number is 800 -656 -0231.
800 -656 -0231. They man that line Monday through Friday, typically from 10 a .m. to 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time. And they are offering a 40 discount on two books by Dr. James R. White today. If you purchase The Roman Catholic Controversy, or if you purchase What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran, you will get 40 off the retail price by mentioning Chris Arntzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, ordering by phone or by ordering at CVBBS .com, and put in the instructions after you place the order.
This is the only way that you can tell them that you heard about this show on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. If you are ordering by the website, you have to click on instructions and put in there, I heard about your book ministry through Chris Arntzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I want 40 off The Roman Catholic Controversy and or What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran.
By the way, I forgot to mention to two of our listeners who sent in questions before the break, Pete Orta and Kevin from Philadelphia. You have both won both of those books. You have each won The Roman Catholic Controversy and What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran, thanks to our friends at Bethany House Publishing and Baker Books.
Thank you for providing these books for us, and CVBBS .com will ship them out to you at no charge to either you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We need your full mailing addresses, so if you could, Pete Orta and also Kevin from Philadelphia, please give me your full mailing addresses so I can give them to CVBBS .com.
And before we return to our discussion with Dr. James R. White on the Pope, the Grand Imam, and the Joint Declaration on Human Fraternity, we just have some special announcements in regard to events coming up that we want you to attend.
The Sanctification Through Suffering Conference is being held March 15th through the 16th in Freehold, New Jersey, featuring Justin Peters, Frank Mullis, Joe Suozzo, and Colleen Sharp. If you would like more details on registering for this conference, March 15th through the 16th in Freehold, New Jersey, go to strivingforeternity .org, strivingforeternity .org.
And then the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, is going to be hosting a debate on Saturday, March 30th. This debate is between the pastor of Word of Truth Church, Bruce Bennett, and a Roman Catholic apologist, Matthew Luke Broderick.
The theme is Purgatory, Is it Biblical? That was the theme of probably one of the most memorable Catholic debates on Long Island with Dr. James R. White that nearly led to a lawsuit.
Well, having you moderate anything almost always leads to a lawsuit.
Yeah, for some reason you never want me to emcee anything that involves Muslims or homosexuals. I don't know why.
That's exactly right.
But I did do that anyway, and I think I did a very responsible job.
That's because we drugged you before.
But anyway, if you want to attend this debate on Saturday, March 30th, in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, at the Word of Truth Church, go to wotchurch .com for all the details, wotchurch .com. That's the debate on Purgatory, Is it Biblical?
Between Pastor Bruce Bennett and Catholic apologist Matthew Luke Broderick on Purgatory, Is it Biblical? And then, coming up after that, I'm having a debate on Iron Trip and Zion Radio between Gary DeMar and a Reformed Baptist pastor and author, Doug Van Dorn.
The debate is on the theme, let's see here, it is on Were the sons of God in Genesis 6 of natural or supernatural origin? Gary DeMar, most of you probably are familiar with him, the former president of American Vision, co-founder, actually he wasn't the co-founder, he existed before he joined the staff there, but he has been well-known, affiliated with American Vision for many years until his recent retirement officially from that ministry.
But Gary DeMar is also an author, a guest on this show a number of times. Doug Van Dorn has also been on this show, and not only is he a pastor, but he wrote the book Giants, Sons of the Gods. He is taking the position that the sons of God in Genesis 6 were of supernatural origin, whereas Gary DeMar is taking the position that they are of natural origin.
That's on this show, Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Wednesday, April 10th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time, so mark that on your calendar so you can listen in. And we hope that you enjoy and are blessed by that.
And then coming up is a conference that I love to attend every year here in Pennsylvania at the Elizabethtown College. That is the East Coast Ministers Conference of Banner of Truth, and that is May 28th through the 30th.
And the theme is I Believe in the Holy Spirit. The speakers are Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, David Vaughn, who is a Reformed Baptist missionary in France, Stephen J. Nichols, the president of the Reformation Bible College, which was founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas.
That's May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, the East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth. If you would like to register for this conference, go to BannerofTruth .org, BannerofTruth .org, click on Events, and then scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference.
They have other conferences that might be closer to you on the West Coast and in the United Kingdom, and I know that we have listeners in places all over the globe. So if you see a conference nearer to you that you'd rather attend, you could click on that as well.
I hope as many of you as possible, though, come to the conference where I will be, God willing. East Coast Ministers Conference, May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, on I Believe in the Holy Spirit.
Last but not least, the Foundations Conference is being held once again in Manhattan. I love this conference as well, and if you would like to attend this conference, I would strongly urge you to register as quickly as possible because the venue only seats about 200 people.
The speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, who you just heard moments ago voicing the advertisement for New Covenant Church NYC, one of our sponsors. Dr. Stephen J. Lawson is truly a profound preacher and teacher.
One of my favorite preachers as well, Reverend Jeff Thomas, a retired pastor in Wales, an author, and if you've never heard him, you've got to take a train, plane, or automobile to wherever he is preaching because he is absolutely phenomenal.
Richard Caldwell, Jr. Reverend Armand Tomassian, who I am strongly confident will be a household name, especially amongst Reformed Christians within the next decade. He is an extraordinary young man who I met at the Foundations Conference about two years ago.
I just love his preaching and teaching, and he's also extremely humble. What a precious brother in Christ and humble servant of Christ, Reverend Armand Tomassian. Andrew Quigley and Paul Washer has just been added to the roster.
So if you'd like to attend the Foundations Conference in Manhattan on December 19th and 20th, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com. And please tell all of these folks running these conferences that you heard about them from Chris Arns and on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.
And now, last but not least, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to ironsherpanzironradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now, and donate as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can because we really do urgently need your donations.
And, of course, you could advertise as well by sending me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line, and we will help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.
But, as far as donations are concerned, go to ironsherpanzironradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card. If you prefer snail mail, an address will appear on the screen where you can mail a check made payable to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio when you click ironsherpanzironradio .com and then click Support.
Please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio. Never do that and never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.
Those are two commands of God, and providing for my show, obviously, is not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, please donate as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can to ironsherpanzironradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now.
If you do not have a local church where you are a member and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in disobedience to God, and if you need help, I can help you find a church. I've already helped people all over the world find churches near them.
I have lists of biblically faithful churches everywhere, so please send me an email to chrisarenson at gmail .com and put I need a church home in the subject line. Now we are back with our conversation with Dr. James R. White on the Pope, the Grand Imam, and the Joint Declaration on Human Fraternity.
Unfortunately, we're out of time.
Well, as they say, you got to do what you got to do. But if you'd like to send an email, do it quickly because we don't want to run out of time before your question is asked. Chrisarenson at gmail .com.
We have Pastor George Jensen from the First Enola Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania. What a blessing to my life this brother has been to me, even though he is not a Calvinist. He calls himself a plain tea Arminian, and he calls me a black coffee Calvinist, and he is just a dear brother.
But he says, can you ask Dr. White, do this corrupt document, I don't understand that, that's a grammatical error here, maybe due to this corrupt document, the clergy sex abuse scandal and other corruptions we see in the Roman Catholic religion, do you think Catholicism will maintain its adherence, gain adherence, or head towards extinction?
Extinction. That would be some colossal event if the Roman Catholic Church ceased to exist, but if you could.
Well, it would be, but I mean, even when I was, you know, the Lollards in the late 1300s, and I didn't see, fascinating is that it, and you might say, well, yeah, 840, 980, you have what are called the coffers, lots of 980s, if, it might be even 10 years altogether, and this is reflected in the text of the Quran, and beginning in verse 61, truly the likeness of Jesus in the sight of God is that of, after the knowledge has come unto you, say, come, let us call upon our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, that let us pray for those who lie.
In true account, there is no God but God, and truly God is the mighty, the wise, it's about as close as you can get. If they turn away, then God knows well the workers of corruption. Say, O people of the book, come to a word common between us and you, that's where they took this from for some reason, it's a curse, but that's what they took it from, that we shall worship none but God, shall not associate ought with him, that's will not commit shirk, and shall not take one another as lords apart from God.
If they turn away, say, bear witness that we are submitters, and of course, submitters, submission is Islam, at the East London, and I'm a little bit concerned, so warns, I wonder what that means, even from the Roman Catholic side, and yet in all, and what is said, we can, I guess, talk.
Thank you, Pastor George. Jensen, please give me your full mailing address in Enola, Pennsylvania, so that CVVBS .com can ship you out a free copy of both the Roman Catholic Controversy and What Every Christian Needs to Know about the Quran, both by our guest, Dr. James R. White, and we want to thank again, Bethany House Publishers and Baker Books for their generosity in providing us with these books.
To those who are writing in questions today, we're going to our last break right now, it's going to be a lot briefer, or a lot more brief, than the last break, so if you want to send in a question, do it now, or forever hold your peace, because we're rapidly running out of time.
Don't go away, we'll be right back,.
God willing,.
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Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture.
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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
We are a Reformed Baptist church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.
That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either. We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.
If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750. Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled, Resting in Grace.
You can find us at ProvidenceBaptistChurchMA .org. That's ProvidenceBaptistChurchMA .org. Or even on SermonAudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
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To continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the Gospel of Sovereign Grace. Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org. Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen and this is the last segment of our interview today with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and if you want to send in a question do so now immediately at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
We have Gordy from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania who says, Greetings Dr. White from a member of the church where you were baptized, Bible Baptist Church of Charmestown, Pennsylvania. Referring more specifically to the United Nations Universal Declaration on Human Rights from 1948, Pope Francis recently said, Sound Law is the essential instrument for achieving social justice and nurturing fraternal bonds between peoples.
This new declaration reads like a repackaged version with a contemporary spin. Rome has never been guilty of a strong commitment to biblical truth but rather to tradition. This would explain their failure to understand and acknowledge that the gospel will divide peoples even families not bring about solidarity.
What are your thoughts?
Well, did it...
Let me see if I can find that question because I deleted it as soon as I finished reading it.
...American form and that's what he's all about. You know, they are... They're very deeply politically oriented. Could play the political... You know this, but pretty decent idea. Roman Catholic and other...
You can't tell... You know, John Paul did some of that. So yeah, it's pretend like they do. Not to know in their heart. And yet they still remain committed to the system. There's just got to be some dark nights that would be wonderful if...
By the way, would you be willing if I could find a...
No. That was the safest answer I could ever give. Chris Argen starts going, would you be willing? Nope. Not in this life.
Unfortunately, that's the way most of my job interviews ended. But if I found a worthy Catholic apologist, not somebody who just wants to launch a career, who's just graduated from high school, but I mean a really worthy...
And there are a few of them out there, believe me.
Right, I know.
But if I found one who is willing to debate the theme, is Pope Francis a faithful and safe shepherd? Would you participate in that?
Completely.
And speaking of the Netherlands, remember when 30 Muslims from the Netherlands flew out to New York City to hear you debate one of the Imams in Manhattan or in Queens at that Presbyterian church in Queens?
I do not remember that.
Oh, sure. Well, I did tell you, obviously. That was pretty monumental.
From the Netherlands?
Yes. And you, in fact, I'm not sure that this person was among them, but the only person that seemed to react negatively to the debate after it was over was a very Caucasian-looking Muslim who you were having a little bit of an argument with after the event was over.
He looked like he was from the Netherlands, but I don't know if that was one of the guys.
I've never been to the Netherlands. You know, I would say, basically, I'd like to do. But that tells you a lot about, you know, you had godliness.
By the way, I don't know if this affects the way you answered Gordy from Bible Baptist Church in Charlemontown, Pennsylvania, but I did look up his question and he does. Say, Francis recently said, sound law is the essential instrument for achieving social justice and nurturing fraternal bonds between peoples.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that sound law is being reformed.
Well, Gordy, give us your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg and CVBBS .com will ship you out a free copy of both the Roman Catholic Controversy and What Every Christian Needs to Know about the Quran, compliments of Bethany House Publishing and Baker Books, and also compliments of CVBBS .com who will be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to us.
We have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, and Tyler says, thank you for your work in ministry, Dr. White. Do you think that those who criticize evangelistic outreach to Muslims are guilty of showing partiality as condemned in the Book of James?
Well, it depends on why they are Muslim people, and these people have been given up in the need to hear. Obviously, if there aren't somebody wants, then I suppose you could use that as an excuse to not talk to all sorts of people.
Multiple people at multiple times, that messes up.
Yeah, it's a good thing that throughout history, Christian missionaries didn't have that mindset.
Yeah, I'm not kidding.
Let's see here. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, I have tuned in late, so I'm sorry if I am repeating something that somebody else asked, but when it comes to these kinds of documents, since the only thing that is binding upon the faithful Roman Catholic are those things that are dogma and declared ex cathedra by a Pope, aren't these documents, by and large, really useless because they really don't enforce or bind the consciences of even Catholics to respond according to what these documents say?
I am very much reminded of the joint declaration on justification between Catholics and Lutherans that came out not long ago where neither the historic biblically orthodox Lutherans nor those Catholics that were historically accurate agreed with what was written in this document anyway.
Yeah, well, the problem with that.
Bodily is something of Mary, just so our listeners understand.
Right, yeah, and so if that were the case, it's true, but look at how, the problem is, Roman Catholicism, in the sense of who he assigns, he defines therein, yeah, you know, it's going to have on the direction, pile them up, clarify the gospel.
If you could, in two minutes now, just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today in regard to this subject.
Well, yeah, we're coming to the end, and we didn't do a lot of reading of the document, there wasn't really continued dialogue, and anything that stand the other side down through the years, I've tried for their belief, but your own belief, if you do not engage in meaning, even raise those issues, and had that, is why Francis continues to give his, keeping an eye on what, we'll keep our eyes on it, we'll see what happens.
Well, I want you to stick around on the phone for just a couple of minutes so I can give you a proper goodbye off the air, but I want to thank you for being our guest in the midst of your very hectic schedule.
I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.
We look forward to hearing from you and your questions next week for our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.