The Rise and Fall of The Gospel Coalition - Chapter 3: The Grift

Hello there, this is A .D. Robles, and you're listening to The Rise and Fall of the Gospel Coalition, chapter three. Where did those charges come from?

Do you know? No, they're unnamed. That's part of the problem. Right. So unnamed sources are presenting these things, which should make everybody take a pause.

I believe Jesus would teach us to take the vaccine as a part of God's gift to humanity.

...about what the Bible whispers about, and we ought to shout about what it shouts about. And the Bible appears more to whisper when it comes to sexual sin compared to its shouts about materialism and religious pride.

And you're wondering why multi-ethnicity isn't happening at your church. It's because you have a person that's black on the outside but angloid on the inside.

The Grift and the Gospel Coalition’s Real Goals

All right, well welcome back to the show, The Rise and Fall of the Gospel Coalition. Chapter three is called The Grift, and I'm excited to get into today's interview. Today's interview is with Joel Webben, but before we get into that, let's just talk a little bit about what I mean by the grift.

Now, so far we've covered, you know, how Big Eva operates as sort of a guild. It has a sort of an organization that is kind of loosely, you know, official but not really. It's kind of outside of the normal church structures, but it definitely does have, you know, sort of an established orthodoxy, an established rule set of engagement.

And there's definitely people—in the second episode we talked about, you know, there's some people that are in, there's some people that are out. If you're in, you're protected, you know, you get people coming to your defense, and you can kind of get away with all kinds of, let's just face it, sins.

You can get away with sins if you're in the guild. If you're out of the guild, you know, you're fair game. Just like in any cult, you know, people can slander you, lie to you, come after you, get underhanded and dirty, all that kind of stuff.

And so we've talked about those two things. But what we haven't talked about is, you know, really what are the goals of the Gospel Coalition, right? What is Big Eva up to right now? And of course, if you go to Gospel Coalition's website, you know, you'll see that they've got some stated goals about the Gospel and spreading the Gospel and providing, you know, Gospel-centered materials and things like that.

That's what they say their goals are. But I think that if you read their articles and if you see their, you know, engagement on Twitter and what they're up to in that regard, their podcast, stuff like that, I think that there's two missions, and they're both related.

What they're trying to do, in my opinion, is to move the Church leftward, politically. And, you know, you could be really nice and say they're doing that because they want to spread the Gospel to people on the left, and it's sort of like a seeker-sensitive type of a thing.

Or you can, you know, take my position and say, well, they're really—they just want to import, you know, very sinful political ideologies into the Church because they themselves are socialists or Marxists or progressives, and so they want to promote that within the Church.

And I think that, you know, it depends on the person, which it is. So that's, I think, their first goal. They are trying to overtly pull the Church leftward and really interject pagan politics into the Church.

But if they can't do that, then the other thing that they're trying to do is at least normalize it. They want to at least make it normal and common and acceptable for, you know, people that have very progressive, really pagan political ideas to be in the Church.

They want it to be normal for them to be in the Church. So you're either going to go left or you're going to be tolerant of the left, and that's what the Gospel Coalition's real goals are. But they can't—they know—they're smart enough to know that they just can't come out and say that, right?

They can't overtly say—and sometimes they do, but they can't overtly say, look, you need to vote Democrat, you need to be progressive, you need to support AOC, or Congress, or whatever it is. They can't do that.

But what they do is they have a few different kinds of tactics that they use in the form of articles or podcasts or things like that to sort of push the Church leftwards. And what I want to do in today's episode is—and like I said, we're interviewing Joel Webben from Right Response Ministries.

I want to talk about some of those tactics, and there's definitely others, but these are some of the main ones that I've seen used. And they're—it's pretty sneaky when you see what they're up to when it comes to—anytime they write on politics, anytime they write on social issues or things like that, they use these tactics all the time.

If you want to find out more about this, actually, this is what I focus my book about. I wrote a book, and it is called Social Justice Pharisees, Woke Church Tactics, and How to Engage Them. This book is all about the tactics that the woke use.

And when I say the woke, you could just interject Big Eva in there, because Big Eva is—woke is a joke, obviously. The tactics Big Eva uses and how to engage them, how to fight back against them. And me and Joel are going to get into that in a little bit as well.

But anyway, I hope you enjoy this interview, and we'll see you on the other side. All right. So Joel Webben, thank you for joining me today. Joel is a pastor. He's a father. He's—what do you call yourself?

The leader of Right Response Ministries? The host? What is it? The czar, the sultan. The czar? No, the president. So I'm not much more humble. There you go. The czar. President with checks and balances.

With checks and balances. Yeah. Okay, I got that. Yeah, well, Joel actually invited me to a conference a while back that I was able to speak at. And there was just a lot of people there. It was awesome.

It was a great conference, Joel. So thank you so much for inviting me. How was the feedback on your end? I mean—.

Oh, man, it's been awesome. I think that there's something powerful. Like, you do online stuff like this, you know, YouTubing and all this, like, podcasts. But, like, there's just—it makes it tangible and physical and real when you gather in the flesh.

So, like, we—it's not even that we have so many more followers, although our following has ticked up since the conference. Awesome. But it's, like, the engagement that we have now, there's just an added credibility.

They're like, oh, you're a real ministry. You did something in the flesh. Yep. You know, and you're not just a YouTuber or something. So, huge, good response.

Yeah. I totally agree with you. When you're in person, it's just—it's very—it's a very different vibe. And I think that a lot of people, when they meet, you know, us or when I meet them, it's almost like—I don't think that people are weirdos and, like, just a bunch of freaks kind of.

But, like, when I meet someone, they're like, oh, yeah, you're just a normal guy.

You're just a normal person. Like, meeting people who—like, the exact people who you see commenting on your page. Yes. That's right. And it's like, you engage with some of the comments and you're reading some of them.

And you know, in theory, this is a real person. But when they give you a hug in the flesh at the conference and thank you for your ministry, you're like, oh, man, this—it invigorates you because you're like, what I'm doing actually counts.

It's real. Amen. Like, this is real ministry.

Amen. Thank you, man. Good stuff, man. Good stuff. Well, again, thanks for joining the podcast. And what I wanted to talk to you about is just some of the different ways that Gospel Coalition, the organization, accomplishes their mission.

But before we get into that, let me ask you, Joel, so what do you think sort of the—not the stated goals of Gospel Coalition, not the stuff you're going to find on their About page, what do you think drives some of the articles and some of the things that they engage in?

What's the secret goals here, in your opinion?

Love Your Neighbor, the Law of God, and the COVID Tactics

Yeah, the secret goals is for everybody who's a Christian to vote Democrat. The secret goal is they're leftist. They're Marxist. I like—so, you know, we were talking about this before we hit record, but I would differ from some of my conservative, faithful, biblical brothers and sisters who I love and we partner with in a lot of ways, you know, but they would object to the Gospel Coalition and say they're blurring the lines between a law gospel distinction or they're blurring the lines between the fruit of the gospel and the gospel itself, and there may be some of that.

But I would say that, like, I told you this when Tim Keller—it was years ago, but he did this little video, it was like three minutes long, and it was with these cool graphics and stuff, and it was about, you know, the plan of their church redeemer in their city, in their community, to saturate New York City with the gospel in such a way that they would reach, like, a 10 ratio of Christians in the city through the ministry of their local church, and that that would cause, like, a saturation point, a tipping point where it would infect the culture, that the beliefs, the Christian faith would have a cultural effect, that art would become more hopeful, all these things, and that people would see the beauty of Christ and be attracted.

And that video—I'm saying all that to say I loved it. It was fantastic. So, like, my big objection with the Gospel Coalition is not their affinity with Abraham Kuyper. I have an affinity with Abraham Kuyper, right?

So, my problem with the Gospel Coalition is not that they're Kuyperian. Like, the Gospel Coalition is all of Christ for all of life. They are. The problem is not their tactics or their methods. The problem is that they're doing the things that you and I would agree with that we want to do in the opposite direction.

That's the problem. That's the problem. So, when they're like, all of Christ for all of life, and what that means is socialism, right? That would be the problem.

Joel, that's actually a great segue, because one of the first kind of methods that I think they use in order to accomplish this is this idea of neighbor love or loving your neighbor as yourself, because love your neighbor as yourself is one of the most popular things that Jesus ever said.

But I think a lot fewer people know that that's actually a quotation from Leviticus than they know it comes from Jesus. And so, when Jesus says, love your neighbor as yourself, we understand that biblically as a summary of the second table of the law, the Ten Commandments and all of that.

And so, he's saying, you know, love your neighbor as yourself. You know, that's the law of God. Do the law of God. And when we see in the Gospel Coalition, love your neighbor as yourself, so often we see it talk about things like canceling church during COVID or getting vaccinated or, you know, going to the Black Lives Matter rally.

That's how you love your neighbor as yourself. Do you think that they're intentionally twisting what love your neighbor means? Is it a tactic? Like, what's your thoughts on that? Yeah, great question.

Yes, I do think it's intentional. So, it's intentional. This is the reason why guys like you and me and John Harris and the reason we're hard on the Gospel Coalition, just for your listeners, they need to hear this.

Because Jesus holds teachers to a higher standard, to a higher account. And with greater revelation comes greater responsibility and moral culpability. Jesus said, he's pronouncing woes on Israelite cities.

And he says, woe to you, woe to you. For if the miracles, the signs and the wonders that Jesus did in his earthly ministry, if they had been performed in places like Sodom and Gomorrah, they would have repented long ago.

So, the principle is this. And then Jesus goes further and he talks about hierarchy, not just hierarchy on earth. Because God does work. There is a hierarchy on earth. We're not egalitarians. But Jesus says, there's a hierarchy, as it were, in hell.

To the one who disobeys to one degree, he'll receive a light beating. But to the one who disobeys to a greater degree will receive a severe beating. So, nobody's going to be comfortable in hell. Everybody's going to be uncomfortable, but some will be more uncomfortable than others.

And so, my point is, if you have greater knowledge, greater revelation from God's truth, from God's word, you're held to a higher standard. Not just by guys like me and you, but by God himself. And so, I would say, yes, they do know.

Therefore, Jesus said that to the Pharisees. Because you claim to see, your guilt remains. These guys claim to see. The gospel, that's their claim. We're intellectual. And we know theology. And we love Calvin.

And we love this guy. And we love that guy. So, yes, I think they absolutely know. And this is what I think they love about Jesus' greatest commandment and second greatest commandment. The greatest commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your mind.

This is the greatest commandment. And the second is like it, that you should love your neighbor as yourself. They know. These are Westminster Confession guys. They don't hold to it. Tim Keller is bypassing what's clear in the Westminster about a male deaconate, male deacons.

But they claim to adhere to the Westminster Confession. So, the whole concept of love your neighbor being further fleshed out by the second table of the law, the Decalogue Commandments, namely number 5 through 10.

Tim Keller, of course he knows. Of course he knows. He signed on the dotted line. He's confessional, supposedly. So, he knows. And this is what I think, not only is it intentional, but I think he likes that.

He knows that love your neighbor as yourself is a headline for the second table of the law. And I think he likes it just the way he likes the fruit of the Spirit having multiple fruits listed. Guys, Gospel Coalition guys, they like this because they see it as like a toolkit, right?

Like I'm building a house. And in their case, so it's like I have a particular goal, something that I have in mind that I want to accomplish. And the house that they want to build is a house of Marxism, a house of socialism, a house of leftism, a house of globalism against nationalism.

They have a particular house that they want to build. And if you're curious, what are the dynamics of the house? Just look at the Democrat platform, right? And that's the house that they want to build.

But what they like about the fruit of the Spirit and the second table of the law is that they view it as a toolkit. I can pull out a screwdriver for this particular task because I want to accomplish this.

I can pull out a hammer for this particular task because I want to accomplish this. That's the way they view it. So when COVID hit, it's love your neighbor as yourself, which is right and biblical. But then we would say, OK, and what does it mean to love your neighbor?

Well, there's six different commandments that flesh that out. Honor your father and mother. Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not bear false witness. And do not covet. And they would say, OK, well, this is what we're trying to accomplish with our Marxist goal.

So we have six tools in our kit to choose from. Let's pick exclusively the do not murder. And the general equity getting to the heart of that is do your neighbor no intentional harm. Boom. Churches are shut down.

Boom. You got to get vaxxed. Whereas we will look at that and we say, yeah, don't do you. Don't do frivolous, you know, reckless physical harm to your neighbor. But then we would also say, don't bear false witness.

Right. So don't go around scaring the public, scaring the bejesus out of them with with a virus that we know kills less than one percent of the population. And the average person who's died has been 84 years old and 85 percent of those who the million that have died in the U .S. had not one, not two, not three, but four simultaneous comorbidities.

It is virtually harmless to children. And yet we're we're pushing back vaccination on. You know what I mean? So it's just like so I do love your neighbor and they truncate it down to the sixth commandment.

Whereas we would say we're not taking away from the sixth commandment, but we're holding the sixth commandment in balance with the fifth and the seventh and the eighth and the ninth and the 10th. Right.

Well, they like that because they can pick and choose. Exactly.

No, I think you're exactly right. Let me just stop you right there, because what they what so often happens, I mentioned this all the time, is that they they'll pick and choose a neighbor to love. And it's the neighbor of the moment.

So whoever the neighbor is at the moment, that's who you need to love. And they forget that Jesus is not saying love your neighbor at the expense of your other neighbor. He doesn't say love your neighbor in this way, but not in the other ways.

Like it's it's every neighbor and it's all it's it's the whole moral law. So if to save a life, you have to bear false witness against another neighbor. That's not allowed. And as and as conservative Bible believing Christians, we get that.

And I think that that you're right to point that out. That's how you know it's a tool. Here's another way to know it's a tool. And it's a it's a deeply political tool. So going to the Black Lives Matter rally can become a matter of loving your neighbor as yourself to gospel coalition.

But hypothetically, if someone were to get to make a rally against the anti white, you know, you know, rhetoric that they hear from critical theory being taught in schools and stuff like that. If somebody tried to make that a matter of loving your neighbor as yourself, they would never go for it.

They would instantly see the problem of saying you're commanded to go to the, you know, the white person rally. They would instantly point it out, even though a few months ago they were saying you got to go to the Black Lives Matter thing.

And it's like it's a tactic. It's a ploy. And I think you're 100 percent right.

They they know what they're doing. And I would just real quick add to that. I think there's three big components. So when it comes to loving your neighbor, all I emphasize just a moment ago was was one of, I think, three elements.

Number one, if when I'm commanded to love my neighbor, I need to employ all the elements of biblical love, not just one of them, but all of them. So to love my neighbor effectively, or I should say obediently, according to God's commands, I need to seek to do him no physical harm.

But I also need to seek to honor. I also need to seek to not bear false wit, not to lie to him or deceive him, not to covet what he has, not to steal from him, not to be adulterous in my love, but there to be a fidelity.

So so number one, if I'm going to love my neighbor obediently, I need to employ all the elements of love, not just one of them that I like in the moment. Number two, what you said to love my neighbor, I can't love one neighbor at the expense of another.

So I need to love my neighbor with all of love, biblical love. I need to love all of my neighbors, not just a couple of them, but all of my neighbors. And then the third piece is I need to love all of my neighbor, meaning I need to love his physical body because I'm not Gnostic.

But I also need to love his soul. What does the Bible say about Christians who neglect the gathering? It says do not neglect the gathering, Hebrews 10, 25. But all the more, as you see the day drawing near and right before it, it says stir one another up or exhort one another.

And then immediately Paul, without skipping a breath, says not neglecting the gathering as is the habit of some. So I take that exegetically to say Paul saying we need to stir one another up to love and good works.

And the chief context where that occurs is the gathering, the physical gathering of the saints on the Lord's day. And then if you cross reference that over to Hebrews 3, he talks about stir one another up to love and good works.

So that in Hebrews chapter 3, so that there might not be found in any of you, brothers, an evil, an evil, unbelieving heart that would lead you to fall away from the living God. So if you take all that in context, basically, I see the apostle Paul saying this.

One of the greatest threats for Christians is that they might turn out in the end to be an apostate. And in order to have a strong defense against the potential of apostasy, we should stir one another up.

And to stir one another up, the primary context for that is the physical gathering on the Lord's day, aka neglecting to gather physically with the saints on the Lord's day puts the soul in jeopardy. But according to the narrative of COVID, at least early on when we didn't know a whole lot, if we do gather physically on the Lord's day with the saints, it puts the body in jeopardy.

So my point is, well, the Christian who's seeking to be obedient wants to love all of his neighbors, not one neighbor at the expense of the other, but also all of each of his individual neighbors, his body and his soul, not just his flesh at the expense of the soul, and also not just the soul at the expense of the flesh.

And we want to not just love in one way, but employ all the methods of love. So I say those three components. To love your neighbor means love your neighbor in all the ways that the Bible says is loving.

Love all of your neighbors, not just one at the expense of the others. And love all of your neighbor, his body, his soul, the whole being. We're not just meatbags walking around. We have an eternal soul.

So those three elements. And I would say that the Gospel Coalition completely misses that, and I don't think it's because they're theologically dumb.

Well, and what you said to some people, it might sound complicated, but actually, God has given us such a blessing in his law. He actually spells out very nicely how to accomplish this. He didn't just tell us to love our neighbor and then say, well, you're on your own to figure out how to do it.

He gave us a lot of framework that we can draw from. And obviously, we can apply it to different situations, and there's some work that needs to be done there. But the Bible is so much better than anyone's ever told you it is.

It's there already. And I think that you're right to bring up the fact that a lot of these guys, they're Westminster guys, they're London Baptist Confession guys. They know this. They know this. And so they're doing this on purpose.

Let's move on to the next one, because I wanted to talk about this for sure. You know, there's a there's a I call it a scam, but there's a phrase that's often used in Big Eva gospel coalition circles called countercultural ministry being countercultural.

And that's this idea that that's that's the goal. You want to be countercultural. And I think that speaks to a lot of people because, you know, not everyone in our culture is a Christian. And so if we're going to be Christians, then, you know, would make sense.

We want to be countercultural. And that's all well and good. If you want to use that word, fine. I'm not going to I'm not going to say you're bad. But what I often see in gospel coalition materials is they use that word, that buzzword.

But when you get to the meat of what they're saying, they're actually talking about the opposite. Let me give you an example. So during covid, Brett McCracken wrote an article that said, church, don't let the coronavirus divide you.

And it talked about the three or four countercultural things that we can do right now to be different than the world in covid. And the very first one talks about countercultural sacrifice. And the idea of it, Joel, was that if you believe that that masks are stupid or closing your churches is not necessary, you know, you don't believe the covid narrative.

Then you need to bear with those of your brothers who do believe it and think it's it's not necessary. I think that's good advice, Joel. You know, we don't want to necessarily pass judgment on people.

OK, fine, fine, fine. Let's just stop there. Pretend that that's great advice. Then he says, if you're if you if you believe in the covid narrative, don't pass judgment on those who don't. And that's good advice, too.

Like, OK, great. It's tit for tat. Right. But ultimately, Joel, this is the funny part. Ultimately, he says we should continue to do social distancing and zoom church for the sake of others. That's the that's the that's the that's where he ends up.

He says we should do that because we've got to cater to both parties. Right. Now, now, Joel, not really. So, Joel, so you jumped on it because it's so obvious. Right. Like, how is that catering to both parties?

It's not. In fact, the exact opposite is catering to both parties. Keep church open. And if you're too scared to go to church, then you don't go. You know what I mean? You suspend.

Exactly. That became so clear to me and most of my elders. Unfortunately, one of my we were in California at the time. One of my elders believe the Imperial College model, you know, 100 percent thought the church would stay closed down for two years.

All that, you know, so just really, really, really miss this one. You know, but by God's grace, we had a majority of our elders and we outvoted this guy because we thought it was serious. Very few things did we ever decide without a unanimous vote.

But this was one of them. And our position was in terms of biblical obedience, but also protecting Christian liberty, the liberty of the conscience. We were saying, OK, but this is just logically this is so, so simple.

We can gather as a church and those who don't want to gather, we can have an extra measure of grace for them for this season. So that allows the ones who are scared to stay home. But it allows the ones whose consciences are bound that we should be worshiping together physically on the Lord's Day to come.

If we just shut down church, then what you're doing is you're taking half of your congregation and their conscience that says we should be gathering. And it says your conscience doesn't matter. And we are now forcing you to sin against your conscience by giving you no option.

And, you know, whereas if you continue gathering, you're actually accommodating both. So I would say that, like, you know, Eric is you know, he what he's saying in that is he's saying, all right, we need to accommodate the whole all of our neighbors.

Right. It's basically what I was saying earlier, not just some of our neighbors, all of our neighbors. That's what we should do in principle, in theory. Now, in practice, let me provide for you an example that will do the exact opposite, that will shun these neighbors.

And guess which neighbors it is, the ones on the right, the ones that are more conservative.

Countercultural Rhetoric and the Worldly System

So, Joel, so that's all that's all great. And I agree with everything. Now, can I ask you, Joel, this was this was written early on. This was like May of 2020, if I'm not mistaken. It was early. You know, it started not that early.

But yeah, right. But, you know, we've been doing this for two and a half years now. Right. Right. Yeah. So. So, OK, was there anything countercultural about that at that time? Yeah. Let me think.

Let me think. Yeah, it was. It was just like the Gospel Coalition in their typical their typical format. It was countercultural to faithful conservative Christians, to Christian culture.

That's right. Yeah. To Christian, faithful Christian culture, which I find. I find this all the time with Gospel Coalition materials where where they'll say something is countercultural and they don't really elaborate.

I think I think it's just assumed you believe it's just the pagan culture. But it seems like it's counter like, you know, Christian cultures.

When they say counterculture, it's counter Christian culture. I mean, you can look at the back of Tim Keller's books and and you have endorsements from New York Times, Washington Post. Right. So he can't be saying this is countercultural to to the elites in our secular culture in America today because they're the ones who are praising him.

Right. So the only people who are critiquing him are guys like you and I, conservative Christians, you know, so. So they are countercultural. The question is, which one, which culture? Jesus talks about the world, right?

That's the culture that we should be counter to the spirit of this age. Do not love the world. First, John talks about and what what is the world? Well, that the world is not just the word world is used in a lot of different ways, especially by by the apostle John.

So he's not talking about, you know, the cosmos. Do not love the cosmos. We love creation because we love the creator. You know, we want to be good stewards of the creation. We want to exercise dominion in creation, all those kinds of things.

So it's not don't love the world, meaning like plants and flowers. And it's also not don't love the world, meaning the universal population like don't love people. And, you know, it means the world is being defined in that sense as the evil demonic system under Satan's rule, which is a spiritual reality.

However, Christians need to remember this, right? Our battles not with flesh and blood, but well, yeah, that's true. But First Timothy also says that Satan, he takes captive. He takes captive flesh and blood and enlist them in his ranks.

And so Satan uses flesh and blood. And so there is a sense in which we are battling against flesh and blood using spiritual weapons that are not carnal and that are effective for pulling down ideology and strongholds in every lofty opinion that sets itself up and over against the kingship.

Christ. But my point in all that is do not love the world is is the demonic system under Satan's realm. It's it's worldly ideology. It's worldly false pagan views. That's what we're not supposed to love.

But the guys who harbor that who have been enlisted in Satan's army, namely unbelievers who are children of the devil, according to John chapter eight. Those people who hold to that worldly system are the people that the gospel coalition seems to be buddy buddy with.

So I don't I just don't get it.

You know, Joel, this is important. And, you know, if you've kind of zoned out a little bit here, you know, you know, pay attention here to what Joel just said, because and correct me if you haven't noticed this, Joel.

But like I find it so common when it comes to nuance sort of, you know, what they call nuance, you know, ethical issues or moral issues. It is regular that gospel coalition and big Eva types point to the pagans as they are getting this right.

And we're not. Let me give an example. In the woke church book by Eric Mason, one of the things he says, I couldn't believe when he said this, like it just blew my mind. He said that that Jay-Z, the rapper Jay-Z, has done more for racial, you know, reconciliation and healing than the church has in 2000 years or or at least in a couple hundred years.

Maybe that maybe maybe it was maybe it's the history of America. Right. Yeah. Probably two hundred years. Insane. I couldn't it blew my mind. I mean, like, honestly, I wonder sometimes what do these people think about God?

If if his word is so unclear, it's so unhelpful that we got to go look to a gangster rapper to actually figure out how to do this.

And it's not just in their defense, though. They would say they would say, no, no, no. We love the word of God. It's Christians inability to be faithful to the word of God. So so like in their defense, like this is a best case scenario.

Right. So like being as charitable as possible. They love the word of God. They think that God is right on the money. But Christians for the last two hundred years in an entire nation have been completely unfaithful to apply the word of God in this particular issue.

So what I would say is like not just like, oh, they must hate God, like giving them the benefit of the doubt. I think they probably do have some hatred towards God, but giving them the benefit of the doubt.

At least a conservative Christian, a biblically faithful Christian should be able to admit they hate me. They hate me for sure. Hate me. Sure. So why are you why are you funding them? Why are you reading them?

Why are you.

They hate you. That's that is. I'm glad you said it, man. I'm glad you said it. I think so. In fact, I believe I've done some YouTube videos that has talked about gospel coalition actually hates you. And they don't just do it about racial reconciliation.

I mean, if you look at how how they handle issues like like, well, covid is one for sure. The pagans were definitely doing that a lot better. You know, you know, when it comes to abortion, it's like, yeah, you know, the pagans aren't good on abortion, but they've got better solutions for doing it because, you know, socialism and light womb to tomb.

That's how you really do it. It's not just, you know, banning abortion. There's just so many instances where they they push this kind of a thing where it's like, well, why wouldn't you want to be countercultural at that point to Christians if the pagans are so good at it?

And with that, they're setting up. You have to pause for a moment, like each. If you're reading the gospel coalition article, you need like a day because you're going to have to pause at the end of each sentence, you know, and really put your thinking cap on.