December 17, 2020 Show with Ryan Denton & Joe Jacowitz on “Even if None: Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on the 17th

day of December, 2020.

And I'm thrilled to have back on the program two guests that have been interviewed on this

program before, the second of which is joining us in the second hour.

That will be Pastor Joe Jakowitz of Christ Bible Church in

Pleasanton, California.

He is also the founder of First Love Radio that live streams this program every day, and

also the founder of First Love Missions and First Love Publications.

So stick around so that you can hear Joe's participation with us in the second hour.

But joining me right now for the entire program is Ryan Denton, who was a pastor

on the Navajo Reservation before starting Christ in the Wild Ministries, which he has

directed since 2016.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome Ryan Denton back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

It's great to be back on, Chris.

And our topic today is going to be Ryan's latest book, Even If None,

Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism.

And if you could, first of all, Ryan, let our listeners know about Christ in the Wild Ministries.

Yeah, so like you said, and I was doing a lot of evangelism while

I'm more gifted as an evangelist, certainly more burdened

about that kind of ministry than pastor.

My wife and I, we prayed about and sought the Lord, and I thought I

had similar ministries as the Wild Ministries.

And we stepped out in faith and started telling people kind of what we're going to do,

you know, as far as what's God burdening us

with, church walls, with the gospel.

And of course, but for me, the primary

emphasis and really taking it

to area

farmers markets down and find a group of

people

to keep our ministry underneath church.

And they sent me out to

central and

to evangelize to certain areas.

Again, it's to

preach

the gospel.

And that website is christinthewild .com.

That's correct.

Christinthewild .com.

And before we go into a discussion on your new book, Even If None, Reclaiming

Biblical Evangelism, I think we should let our listeners know about another book that you co

-authored with Scott Smith that I interviewed you on.

I can't even remember how long ago.

It was at least a year ago, I believe, but perhaps even longer ago.

A Certain Sound, A Primer on Open Air Preaching.

Why don't you tell our listeners about that so that their appetites will be wet, not only to get a hold of that book,

but also to listen to our interview on that subject.

Yeah, I think it was probably, what was that, 2019, I think, around April

or May when the book was published.

And yeah, Scott Smith and I, Scott's another open air preacher.

Yeah, he and I, we

co -authored a book and really built on that.

And so he had no idea where to turn or where to go.

And like most people, you know, you go to YouTube and you start watching videos.

And the problem with that is most of the guys on YouTube are Pelagians or, you know, far left of

even Arminianism.

And so there's not a whole lot of quality content.

And so Scott and I got together and pitched an idea to ourselves

on open air preaching,

and he kicked it out.

And Joel Beek, he actually wrote that.

So yeah, you can find that at RHB.

Yes, and that actual website is heritagebooks .org, heritagebooks

.org for Reformation Heritage Books.

You could also get it from CVBBS .com, who sponsors my program.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com.

And if you want to, after this program's over, if you want to look up in the archive of

Iron Trip and Zion Radio, the previous interview that Ryan Denton

and I had on his book, A Certain Sound, a primer on open air preaching, just go to

irontripandzionradio .com, click on podcast past shows,

and then type in the search engine Ryan Denton, R -Y -A -N -D -E

-N -T -O -N, and that interview will come up.

The archived recording of that interview will come up.

But our discussion today is your new book, as I said, Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism.

And first of all, the title, the main title of the book is quite interesting.

Even If None.

And I have a very strong feeling where you're coming from with that title.

I'm assuming it has to be in regard to, this

is something especially believed by Reformed Christians, those that believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace,

that we are to proclaim the gospel to every creature, even if

none come to us with a profession of faith, and within our witnessing, get

saved.

I don't know if that's what you meant by that, but why don't you tell us?

Hey, we would

love

for

local

churches to, and you know, every time we go out and share the gospel, we see people converted.

We would love that.

We live in a culture that's very gospel hardened.

And, you know, when you take the gospel to the lost, by and large, there's not a lot of

conversions taking place.

And even, you know, healthy, good biblical churches are not seeing this.

And so the difficulty becomes, if we're in,

if we're doing these things for the sake of seeing people saved primarily, then what happens if that doesn't happen?

Christianity, then what God tells

us, the saying,

even if one.

So in other words, you go out and you share the gospel, and it's not to say

that even unbiblical,

it's not to say that we should just check a box when we go and evangelize, and we say, okay, we do our duty and, you know, we did it and that's it.

You know, it should be motivated by our love for Christ and by our love for people.

But it is to say that wind

up in the area.

And God is glorified when his truth is declared and when error is exposed and refuted.

And also, we must never forget, as has been the case in history,

when missionaries went out on a very dangerous mission field that was

practically, if not completely, void of any

presence of Christianity, the fact that

no one comes to Christ while that missionary is evangelizing and

proclaiming the gospel and just being obedient to Christ.

And if he never sees a soul while he is there or while he is alive,

receive the gospel, embrace it, and become a Christian.

That does not mean that his labors were in vain, even in an earthly sense, because

there have been circumstances when very little, if any, fruit had been borne

by the labors of a particular missionary in a particular foreign field.

But after that missionary had passed on, the crop where

the seeds had been planted and watered sprung up.

And there have been great revivals that took place in areas that are now, even today, thriving with

Christianity, even though the first missionary efforts, in an earthly sense

and according to human beings, may have been viewed as a complete failure.

William Carey, and that's exactly what happened to him.

He was a guy who was in England, and he was burdened, and he

was trying to get people motivated and get people behind him to support him to get out there and to do it.

And he couldn't find hardly anybody until

he got to

India, six years.

Now, if you could imagine, and nobody really had

hyper -Calvinism,

but what William Carey was, you people, nobody was really motivated

that what goes out there, you

could imagine how eager he would have been to send back some kind of report.

There's a lot of good quotes from Carey about how, you know, during that time that he's out there, he has

nothing to say, now, of

course, and just

unimaginable, his wife's going in,

even if he's not

somebody who would

be consulting

hundreds,

a hundred years later, or

whatever.

And so, tomorrow,

my guest on

Iron Chopper and

Zion

Radio will

be Dr. Michael Hagen.

And we're going to...

Yeah, we're going to be discussing his book, Strangers and Pilgrims on the Earth, Remembering the

Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.

Yeah, I love interviewing him.

Praise God.

And it's going back to what we were just talking about, the mission field.

It's tragedy when you hear about these non -reformed denominations,

and a very large one.

Well, I'll just say it, because I know that my friends who are in the Southern Baptist Convention, who are theologically reformed,

would readily admit this and speak about it publicly often.

But it's sad that denominations like the Southern Baptist Convention, the element

in it that is not reformed, which is the majority these days, even though it was

founded in the 19th century completely by Calvinists.

But the mission boards will be very quick to yank people off

the mission field if they don't produce numbers.

It's almost like a sales representative for like a paper

company or some other kind of manufacturer.

If the sales rep is failing miserably making sales, then

the company will either yank him out of that area and put him in another area or fire him, whatever the

case is.

But the gospel of Jesus Christ is an entirely different matter than selling paper or other products.

To that,

I wrote

down the

quote, BC.

I'm an ordained minister.

I'm no longer part of the SBC.

When you go to their

website,

church,

I go to

their

cover, you

know, the

church

of

these

denominations

with Christ.

Again, you're not seeing a lot there.

And I want to start a church, but I'm not seeing anybody say, but I know just like that I'm under

requires, let's say, four years and I'm not seeing that happen.

Well, necessarily, I'm going to water down the gospel.

I'm going to make it easier.

In other words, I'm not going to tell them about counting the cost.

I'm not going to, I'm going to give everything just plain and simple.

I'm going to make, I'm going to cater to sometimes

lost human.

You know, it's sad that that's the way these denominations work, but that's just how it.

Is.

And that's why I'm

doing it right now.

But it is the outworking to me in my mind of become

unbiblical in your theology.

Well, speaking of people who I interview, one of my favorite guests that I've ever interviewed, and in

fact, he is one of my favorite preachers of all time, if not my very favorite preacher of all

time, Dr. Conrad M. Beyway, pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa,

whom I have had the privilege and honor to call my friend since 1995.

And I'm looking forward to him returning to the States, as he has promised

in 2021.

At some point, he will be my speaker for my biannual Iron Shepherds, Iron

Radio pastors luncheon, and I'm really looking forward to that.

But Dr. M. Beyway, who wrote the foreword to your book, I want to

read just one chapter, chapter, not one chapter, one paragraph

of his foreword for our listeners.

A person who reads Ryan Denton's book should not simply read it for the purpose of increasing head

knowledge, but rather for the purpose of joining the growing number of God's children who take the work of

evangelism seriously.

We have done enough talking.

Let us fold our sleeves and get to work.

We have the true gospel.

Let us ensure that it is communicated collectively and individually to those who need to hear

it.

Let us proceed to pray that the Lord will own our labors so that with the help of the Holy

Spirit, we may see more spiritual babies being born and nurtured in our churches.

Also, I'd like to read the commendations for this book by three other men

who I know personally very well and love and who I've interviewed on this program.

First of all, Dr. Tom Nettles, Senior Professor of Historical Theology at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Ryan Denton has given us an essential handbook on evangelism that is like eating frozen,

concentrated orange juice straight from the cylinder.

Then, Justin Peters, who actually was very recently one of my Iron Trip and Zion Radio

Pastors Luncheon speakers, Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministry, says, I

really, really loved this book.

Ryan Denton gives both a sobering assessment of modern evangelical methods, as well as a

motivating challenge for believers to do evangelism as God has prescribed it to be done.

And then finally, Sy Ten Bruggenkate, another dear friend, says, The authority of this

book is scripture.

The wealth of biblical references and exhaustive quotes from evangelists of old are

alone worth getting this book.

Well, those are just some of the folks that have written endorsements for this book, and we

will be talking more about that when we return from our first station break.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com.

And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are in disagreement with something that you're asking about.

You're in disagreement with your own pastors, for instance.

Or you're a pastor, and you've come to a conclusion about a matter that puts you at odds with your own fellow elders or your

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Something like that.

We can understand you wanting to remain anonymous if we're discussing evangelism.

But if it's just a general topic on theology, doctrine,

history, etc., then please, for general questions, give us at least your first name, your city and

state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

We're going to be right back with Brian Denton and more of our discussion on Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Orange and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two

hours is Ryan Denton, who is founder of Christ in the Wild Ministries and we are

discussing his book, Even if None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, joining us during the

second hour, in about a half hour from now, will be Joe Jakiewicz, the founder of First Love Radio

and First Love Publications.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence

if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And Ryan, perhaps we should make sure that you define

evangelism.

Some folks have even used that as an adjective for

many years, that only means that you're talking about anything

aggressively and passionately that you want to share with others.

But people even have been using it for secular reasons as an adjective these days.

But if you could tell us, what is evangelism?

By the way, your voice sounds completely different than it did before.

You're really muffled now.

Yeah, I know.

I was opening up the, I got a Bible here.

I was

opening, you go out and you

share the gospel and people get saved.

That's evangelism from a guy named Darius Salter

and another guy named Peter Wagner.

And, you know, they're Arminians and like

Martin Luther and J .I. Packer, who define evangelism as simply sharing the gospel.

And again, you see that, what I was going to say, you see that in Acts chapter 8,

the word that the Bible uses there is gospelizing.

And that's whenever the disciples are scattered from Jerusalem and they're going around and they're gospelizing.

And that's the word that, that's where we get the word evangelism.

But as they

know it, they come in and they'll say,

okay,

well,

that's actually divine

evangelism.

To me, this is so ironic because Christ, a lot of his parables,

and three of the,

well, actually

two of the parables by

the weeds.

And he says, this is

how I evangelize.

It

turned

out not

to be

saved

like that.

And then, hey, you

know, so -and -so evangelized or said something to me, you know, a week ago or a month ago and

didn't see anything.

But you don't know how that arrow is going to, Christ made it very clear in a lot of

things.

He says that if you look, if you go by appearances only, you'll be deceived.

And I think the same thing happens in evangelism all the time.

And so I think that's why it's so for guys like

Darius, there is God knows

one who knows whether or not a person's truly on, whether or not someone's

truly converted.

How do we ever know?

Again, that's to me why evangelism, what's the

script evangelism

includes.

Yes, we must never forget that some plant seeds, some water them, but it is

God who brings the increase.

And we can't manufacture that.

And unfortunately, many people do for the sake of reporting numbers.

And very often, or very often, that is to boast about how

successful they are because of their own gifts and their own zeal and aggressiveness and

on and on.

Oh, we have a listener who happens to be a very faithful listener and a very generous

supporter financially of this program.

His name is Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina.

Hello, brothers.

For about 30 years now, our Heavenly Father has allowed me the privilege of sharing the gospel to

truckers in our country.

As a professional truck driver, out stop

time is limited.

Maybe he meant our.

Our stop time is limited.

So I hand out New Testaments with Psalms and Proverbs, a pole washer tract, the

gospel of Jesus Christ, and a booklet by either John Blanchard or Todd Freel.

I pray that our Lord will use these to reach truckers because the field, the fields

are certainly white unto harvest.

How do you handle evangelism when you're limited on time with someone?

I like that he does that.

Yeah, I have one of the minutes.

But yeah, that's a great question.

Tracts are great.

I mean, you know, because the thing is, is it goes back to what

you in by hearing, hearing

by the Word of God, the gospels, the power of God and the salvation, things like that.

Somebody that, that, that to me is evangelism.

Actually, I mean, that's why, you know, when we go out and evangelize, let's say, in open

air, see, I

think now in

central track in the

bathroom, I heard the gospel

and,

you

know, I

think

we're

all

having to tell he's always done

things

might

not

look like it.

Yes.

And I remember at a Jeremiah cry conference that I attended in Pensacola, Florida years

ago, where I actually met side 10, Brigham Kate and some other folks.

I met Jeff Durbin there and some others for the first time.

But I remember Jeff Pollard, the current executive director of Chapel

Library, who mainly produces tracks and very affordable,

brief booklets, some of them, which are excerpts of the writings of

men like Charles Spurgeon and some of the greatest preachers and teachers that have ever lived.

And some, some of them are more contemporary, but I think most of them are from brethren of old who are now in

heaven.

But he, he coined a phrase, at least I think he coined it during a message that he was giving

there at the conference.

He called tracks, paper missionaries.

And I love that.

But we have to get to our break right now, our midway break.

This is a longer than normal break, folks.

I hope that you will be patient with us.

But in the middle of the show every day, we take a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in

Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break because the FCC requires them to

localize this program to Lake City, Florida.

So they have to air their own public service announcements and other local things that connect us to Lake

City, Florida.

While they do that, we air our own globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that

you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers to keep them happy so that they will continue

sponsoring this program because we need their finances to exist.

We cannot exist without their financial support, without the financial support of our advertisers.

But also use this time to send in a question for Ryan Denton on evangelism to chrisarnson

at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you

live outside the USA.

And don't go away.

We'll be right back with Ryan Denton after these messages.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my

very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope

Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always

been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving

and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or

call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpen's Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

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I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

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I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpen's Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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Without their financial support, we would likely go off the air, barring a miracle from God.

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Before we return to our guest today, Ryan Denton, who is discussing his book,

Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism, he's also going to be joined by my dear friend,

Joe Jakowicz, pastor of Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton, California, in

the Dublin, California area, who is also founder of First Love Radio, who live

-streams this program, and First Love Publications, who published this book by Ryan Denton,

Even If None.

We'll be returning to that discussion momentarily, but first, I have some important announcements

to make.

Tomorrow, as I said earlier, we are going to be joined once again by my dear friend, Dr. Michael A .G.

Haken, and he is going to be discussing his new book that he edited and

contributed to, Strangers and Pilgrims on Earth, Remembering the Mayflower

Pilgrims, from 1620 to 2020, and I'm looking forward with bated

breath to that interview tomorrow.

Can't wait.

I always love interviewing Dr. Michael Haken.

Then on Monday, we have, for the first time ever, well, for the second time

ever in the history of this show, there are going to be guests, or should I say guest hosts,

filling in for me.

I have only done that once before, early on in the show, when we were broadcasting at WNYG and WGBB

in Babylon, Long Island, New York, when my friend, Pastor Jim Capo, and

Christian recording artist, Steve Camp, hosted my show in my absence.

Well, so then this is going to be the second time that I'm having fill -in hosts on Monday,

but it will be the first time that Dr. James R. White has ever filled in as a host.

He has been a guest on this program many times.

In fact, he was my very first guest ever on the show, and he was also my first guest when I relaunched the

program from Pennsylvania in 2015, but he has never hosted this

show before, and he's going to be joined by his co -host, Pastor Bill Shishko

of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Deer Park, Long Island, New York,

known as The Haven, and they, interestingly enough, debated each other on

infant baptism a number of years ago.

Many of you may have seen the now infamous stand -up comedy routine that I did at the

beginning of that debate.

I orchestrated and emceed that debate between Dr. White and Pastor Shishko

on infant baptism, but even though they were taking opposite ends, representing opposite

sides of that issue, infant baptism, in that debate, they

have always been and remain very good friends and highly regard each other as brothers in Christ

and as apologists and biblically knowledgeable servants of God, but they're going to be

hosting the show together, and I hope you tune in to that.

I can't wait to hear what they have to say myself.

And also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to iantrepansionradio .com,

click support, then click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

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You can also advertise with this as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what I believe.

You don't have to believe exactly as I do, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with

what I believe, and if you do, and if you are, I would love to hear from you,

and I would love to begin that ad campaign as quickly as possible because we are in very urgent need of your advertising dollars.

Folks, we have been hit very hard financially during this coronavirus pandemic because of the hysteria involved

in it.

People's businesses have been seriously damaged financially as a result of this hysteria,

and that includes business owners that are in our audience who have been forced to cut back if

not eliminate their donating, at least for the time being, hopefully, and

some of our advertisers have had to cut back, so we are hurting really badly.

If you love this show and you really care about it, please help us out.

Go to www .IronTropeAndZionRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Please don't ever siphon money away from your regular giving that you are accustomed to to your own local church in order to give to

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In other words, don't curse or punish your church, your own church financially because you are giving to

us.

Also, please don't put your family in serious financial jeopardy if you're really struggling to

survive and make ends meet by giving to Iron Trope and Zion Radio.

Those two things are commands of God providing for your church and your family.

Providing for my radio show is not a command of God, obviously, but if you are blessed financially above and beyond your

ability to obey those two commands, you do have extra money to use for benevolent purposes and recreational

purposes and other things, then please help us out.

If you really don't want us to go away, please go to www .IronTropeAndZionRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate

now.

Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, no matter where on the planet Earth you

live, I may be able to help you find a church that is biblically faithful.

I have extensive lists of churches all over the globe and I have helped people find churches in our

audience from all parts of the world, churches sometimes that are in a minute's drive from their own home

that they didn't even know existed or they didn't know were biblically faithful.

So, if you need help finding a church, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, I need a church in the subject line.

And that's also the email address to send in a question to our guest, Ryan Denton.

And again, the theme is his book, Even If None, Reforming

Biblical Evangelism.

And our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And I believe we have been joined also by Pastor Joe Jackowitz of Christ Bible Church in

Pleasanton, California.

Are you not there, Joe?

I am here.

Great, praise God, brother.

And since your publishing ministry that you founded, First Love Publishing,

in addition to First Love Radio, which live streams this program and First Love Missions, why don't you

tell us about First Love Publishing since you are the ones that brought Even If None

by Ryan Denton into print?

Well,

greeting

five

years,

distribute

them

free

of charge all around the world at pastors' conferences.

Also receive orders online at firstlovepublications .org

free book online.

And I would like to make a special offer today.

If none, the book we FirstLovePublications .org

of the list of Even If None, click on it

and put it in the cart and order it.

And we'll get that out to you in the mail as soon as possible.

That's free of charge.

Well, praise God.

Yes.

And First Love Radio is a 24 -7

radio station online.

You're listening right now through First Love Radio.

And we are so blessed to have Chris's program on our station.

It actually anchors our station and it's growing in listenership and in popularity.

And so we're so blessed to be partners with you, Chris, in this ministry of sharing God's word

through your radio.

Then we have First Love Missions, which is a missions organization where we, again, bring the

gospel into many different countries.

We accompany our gospel preaching and teaching seminars and conferences with free book

distribution.

We've given away over $300 ,000 worth of books, booklets, and tracts to pastors,

to believers, 25 years.

Right now our mission, because of the lack of

countries, because of the overseas.

And then our newest venture is Grace Bible University, which we hope to offer a Bachelor of Theology

degree through two formats and hard copies of the courses

free of charge.

Free of charge.

And that's in the works right now.

We just published our first course along with a student

study guide and a leader study guide.

And so those are the four ministries of First Love Ministries.

You can find a lot more information about them through different websites.

First, you can go to firstlove .org, firstlove .org.

Or you can go directly, if you want the book, even if none, you can go directly to

firstlovepublications .org.

And as far as the church, we have our own website.

They're located in Northern California,

east of San Francisco in the Bay Area.

Praise God.

Website is christbiblechurch .org.

Praise God.

Now, one quick question.

I know that a part of this ministry, First Love Publications, is that you never charge for books, which is

absolutely amazing.

It now is any individual eligible to receive any of your books for free?

Or do you have to be a part of a church?

Do you have to use it as a missionary endeavor?

How do they get these books for free?

And who is offered these books for free?

No, anybody can order one

a month

on a case -by -case basis.

Like if you have a conference, we just sent, as a matter of fact, Ryan, what, 100 copies of Even If None?

Well, I'm assuming

you must be.

A presuppositionalist, Ryan, if you're preaching with Sir Tim Burdengate.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

In fact, in this book, Even If None, there's a chapter.

Now, could you just briefly summarize what that means for the sake of our listeners who don't know?

Well, it's apologetic that it's distant,

but even to the apologist,

which is why it's so great for evangelism, because that's how evangelism should work also.

By the way, I want to add something here about first love publications.

Unfortunately, most of us have a mindset that goes along with the slogan,

you get what you pay for.

And very often, maybe even most often, that's true.

And what that usually means is if you are getting something for free or if you're hardly paying

anything for it, it is either garbage or

looks like garbage.

You could have an excellent Christian book.

You might have a book that was authored by Charles Adams Spurgeon, but it might be on really

cheap paper that's going to fall apart in a few years and might have a horrible

cover, etc.

First love publications books rank up there as far as

the visual quality and the actual physical binding quality.

They rank up there with the top publishing houses.

I mean, this book by Ryan Denton, even if none, you would never believe that they're giving this away

for free.

This is a beautiful book.

In fact, let me ask you, is this depicting the martyrdom of Stephen on the cover?

Okay, that's what I assumed because there's somebody being stoned to death and I just assumed it was Stephen.

But it is a beautiful, if you could call stoning of somebody beautiful.

It's a magnificent artwork on the cover and it's a really sturdy book.

The typing is excellent.

The typeface, it's large enough that you don't strain your eyes when you're reading it.

My kudos to you, Joe Jakowicz, for the fine job that you and the

folks at first love publications are doing.

Well, let me just say also, who want to know about it,

we did

some

ministry.

He does a fantastic job and our printer is Chapel Library.

And so they do an awesome job.

So the combination of Chapel Library, ourselves at First Love Publishing and Jerry Doris

at Authorsupport .com,

presentations,

quality.

Yeah, and providentially, I just mentioned Jeff Pollard of Chapel Library moments ago.

And in fact, they have really improved

the aesthetic quality of their publications because they were

typically in the past and they still might carry some of these booklets that were far less

attractive, not really printed on the greatest stock.

But now they've really increased the beauty aesthetically of what they do.

And that's chapellibrary .org, chapellibrary .org for anybody who's interested.

If you could, Ryan, going back to your book, you have a section in your

book titled The Hope of Reformed Evangelism.

And we've already really gotten into some of the elements that make reformed evangelism

unique.

But if you could be more descriptive, if you will, and also tell us about the hope that you mentioned

that is attached to reformed evangelism.

Well, yeah, so in America,

fanatic evangelism,

Paul's

the

mandate

to

do

that.

He's still

at the

very beginning

of semester and he would come out there and he'd yell

and scream and do all kinds of things.

And

it's

not what

can be bet we have to trust.

Well, I don't know.

It's going to do a great work, but I just don't know.

The flavor of eschatolat is not going to go good,

especially when we're doing evangelism in a hardened context like what we're seeing.

Yes, and isn't it?

You had a go ahead, Jim.

Chris, if I might add to it,

is reformed evangelism

pragmatic methods to persuade people to put their trust in the Lord

because you believe that God will save his people.

He has chosen for me that we as

reformed Christians do not

every way we can as entered as we can.

We do that since we're God -centered in our evangelism

that God's word will not return void for which it is sent.

So whether we get immediate results from his word or a response from our hearers

right away or not, we believe that God's word will become a saver of life unto life and a saver

of death unto death.

In other words, he'll use his word.

It will never be wasted evasion or he'll

use his word in other ways such as and we

need to evangelize more than ever before because

people today are listening.

I'm sure Ryan will agree that

for a time such as this with

lawlessness and economic hardship,

anxiety, depression, even an increase in suicide, I've never seen it

and I've never seen more of the gospel than

today and among believers on a

God -centered

ever read or I've ever seen.

When Ryan sent it to me and I read it, I said, I have to publish this book.

It is even though it's only 215 pages and the appearance and presentation of the text

is very, very excellent.

It's comprehensive.

It addresses every single issue, the underlying issues, the key issues

connected with evangelism and it's also an excellent teaching tool

for churches.

Ryan is available but he's only one person.

If you're a pastor, copies of this book is

on evangelism.

As a matter of fact, the church,

a major adjustment in

theology of evangelism because there's so many unbiblical approaches to evangelism

by most churches and pastors and it's causing so much multiplication of

chaff, unsaved people filling our and suggested or

that we rarely see even the church,

even so many prayer meetings are dying out, which is a necessary

to our evangelism efforts.

We need to pray that God would bless and use our efforts unto the conversion of the lost

and today where we have great opportunities to

share the gospel, people are listening but on the other hand, we need the Holy Spirit.

Well, we have to go to our final break right now.

It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

If you have a question that you'd like to ask, our email address is chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen and we do have a questioner for

both our guests today, Ryan Denton and Pastor Joe Jakiewicz on

biblical evangelism and more specifically on the book.

We have been addressing Even If None, Reclaiming Biblical Evangelism.

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

And CJ asks, How do you overcome the objection of non

-reformed people who say that they know that our beliefs are unbiblical

and non -Christian in their origin because of the fact that they rob one of a

passion and desire to evangelize the lost?

Only

understand,

find God

saying,

I wish I was accursed if it meant that my people could be saved.

And

so

here

you

have

William Carey.

In fact, the reason William Carey went to India was his reformed evangelist.

Yeah, typically, and Pastor Joe, you could jump in here after I have something clarified.

Typically, people are using not only their ignorance of reformed theology,

their having only heard or read the enemies of reformed theology, never having

read the reformed Christians themselves, or they may have read highly

edited versions of some of the reformed heroes of history, like Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

There are actually some publishing ministries who have literally edited out

anything that sounds too Calvinistic from Spurgeon's writings.

But they use their logic very often in that they would say, well, if

God has predestined before the foundation of the world, those who would be saved and those who

would be lost, rescuing those who are his elect

out from the same lump of clay that both the elect and the reprobate are made from are both from the

same lump of sinful clay, but God rescues some of us that he chooses to for no

goodness or nothing desirable on our own, but only for his reasons and his love and

his grace and mercy.

And the rest he leaves to remain in their own sin.

If he has predetermined who will be his people, they will say,

then why do we even evangelize?

Why do we even need to do this?

God's got this all programmed.

This is all a part of his robot system.

You know, they'll go on and on with things like that.

So perhaps Pastor Joe, if you want to start with responding to that, and then Ryan, you could add to it.

Sure, you almost took the wind out of my sails.

That's what I was going to say.

You know, in my almost 40 years of being a pastor, I never heard a Christian from a reformed perspective

rationalize and use logic like this.

Well, if God's going to save all the elect, he's going to do it.

Why do I need to go out and evangelize?

Never heard that before, and I've counseled thousands of people.

You see, it's the bad press that reformed believers have gotten from Arminians, Charismatics, Word of

Faith people, and that they've received from their pastors who tell them that reformed Christians don't

believe in evangelism.

I think the problem with reformed Christians, yes, they are kind of complacent and

lukewarm when it comes to evangelism, but it's not so much because they're using

rationalism and logic to justify their inactivity.

I think it's more of a lack of teaching on the Holy Spirit in reformed churches.

The Holy Spirit is our motivation.

In Him, we have the grace and the quickening power and the rejuvenating effect of the love of

God, of the joy of the Lord, the wisdom of God,

to renew us each day to go out as evangelists, as believers with the gospel.

And so I think it's more of a lack of teaching and exhortation on the need to be filled with the Holy

Spirit every day among reformed Christians.

I think that the perfect examples of the 19th century

founded the Scripture Knowledge Institution, which

distributed millions of Bibles and evangelistic tracts and

bookshelves

to men like Hudson Taylor in the China Inland Mission.

But reformed Christians usually are very, very zealous and we have the

biggest motivation of all to believe that God is going to

save for Himself a people, an instrument

of the gospel.

So we're not passive to evangelism if we are truly reformed because we

have all the motivation in the world.

We don't have to worry.

We know that many Armenian preachers use to try to persuade people

to choose God with their free will, which, of course, we don't believe.

We just preach the gospel indiscriminately to everyone and anyone who will hear and we leave the

rest to God.

Some so, we see the

divine side and the human side of evangelism.

God does the saving, but I already know

that I want to have you.

Come back on this program to do a part two of Even If None and even

Joe could join us if he'd like for another program on this.

But I'd like you to close the program with a couple of minutes of summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today

about this subject before we go off the air.

Yeah, I'd

actually go

out and evangelize if

you know that God's already going to save who he wants to save.

And that from my

evangelism, if on

the Armenian and say,

listen,

the

entire

universe

is really the only glorious message and the only hopeful message out there.

And in God's wisdom, he is going to

use people just like us.

You know, the moms out there, the guys at the construction site, the guys that, you know,

the university professors, just all of us in our everyday spheres, he uses us sharing the gospel

in order to glorify his name, first of all.

And yes, add to his church, but we can trust that regardless of our circumstance or what we see,

whenever we evangelize, we can trust that God's going to use it.

And so, you know, my encouragement is to go out and do it.

Amen.

I want to make sure that I give our listeners Brian's website for Christ in the Wild Ministries,

christinthewild .com, christinthewild .com.

And Pastor Joe Jakowitz, if you could give our listeners again all of your contact information.

Yes, it's firstloveradio .org.

Three days of Christmas programming, special Christmas programming, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

the 23rd, 24th, and 25th on First Love Radio.

You'll need to go to the website to see the times and schedule of

firstloveradio .org.

If you want the free book, even if none, go to firstlovepublications

.org and order your free book, firstlovepublications .org.

Thanks, Scott.

Well, I want to thank both of you for being such wonderful guests as always.

I look forward to having you both back on the program.

In fact, if you could stay on the line and let me, after we go off the air, and let me get a hold

of a calendar and get you guys booked to continue this conversation.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

And don't forget about tomorrow.

We've got Dr. Michael Haken on tomorrow to talk about strangers and pilgrims on the earth,

remembering the Mayflower Pilgrims from 1620 to 2020.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.