Apologia Radio: Judges, Missions, and More

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00:00

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it

00:08

Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite? Delusional yeah delusional is okay in your worldview.

00:16

I'm an animal you don't chastise chickens for being delusional You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

00:24

It doesn't really hurt What Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men

00:37

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage

00:44

Going to all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right?

00:50

Don't go in the world make homies Disciples, I got a bit of a jiggle Nick That's a joke master when we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not

01:21

He will not grow faint or be discouraged

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Till he has established justice in the earth and the coastlands wait for his law

01:33

Isaiah 42 for Welcome back to apology radio.

01:39

I am clearly not Jeff Clearly, but maybe better looking Jeff's actually on a short -term mission trip this week in Kauai and I don't know why that's playing

01:53

Sorry about that That was Jeff's voice though But I am

01:59

Luke the bear here hosting today on my right Zack attack. What's up,

02:05

Zack Alakan, and this is not Future joy. This is actually a very special guest.

02:11

This is my mother Susan Pearson. Yay You can say hi. Hi, so we had her on Years ago long time ago to tell some cool stories

02:22

So I had she's visiting this week So I had her back on to tell some more stories and maybe retell some of the stories

02:28

I don't know if Zack's heard them. No, I'm excited to hear. Yeah, so we'll get to that and we're gonna touch on this

02:33

Kavanaugh situation Briefly first. Mm -hmm.

02:39

So yeah, so thanks for tuning in everybody that's watching live

02:45

Exciting show today. So also I want to think again also everyone that is all access You are the best you make all this happen.

02:54

And so thank you very much. Oh on that note. Yes that video There was a video posted yesterday

03:01

Of us outside the abortion clinic and it was about Answering common objections that we hear out there.

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And so the clip was just yes me tackling some of those and Kind of tearing them apart analyzing each of them

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But we had a comment on our YouTube channel from someone that follows our ministry Really closely and she's been watching our videos for a while and she said in the comment that she appreciated so much what we do

03:27

In terms of that ministry because it actually saved her daughter. Oh, yeah. So now I don't know the exact Situation.

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Yeah, but just to hear those words is Humbling coming from those that continually watch our content

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Right are continually engaged with us that of course partner with us and end abortion now in that ministry

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To get an encouragement like that It's it's the reason why we do what we do in bringing the gospel to these places of death to offer

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Hope and help to these women and these families and it goes to show that we never really know or realize

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The extent of the impact. Yeah end abortion now and and this ministry doing this has had and literally saving lives.

04:08

Yeah Across the world. Yeah, I mean at this point the message of an abortion now not just here but Internationally just to see a comment like that.

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I know for me. It's personally encouraging. It keeps me Yeah, you know fresh and it keeps me encouraged to continue to go there because it's it's a hard thing

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Yeah, and what people don't realize is you're there, you know several times a week and it's not very often that you get to see

04:32

Yeah Like fruits of that, you know very often get women actually coming out, you know

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Yeah, it happened at least not at the location that we're at. It's it's logistically it's set up to where we're very far

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We're limited in our constraints. We can catch people going in coming out and potentially have people

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Talk to us, but yeah, it's it's a different kind of setup all together.

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So know that it doesn't happen. Yeah all that often God may you know give you a gem every now and then and it's it's enough to keep you going and Encourage you but to see something like that was very encouraging.

05:08

Not everybody's John Barrows or Scott Hord Right. Those guys are amazing they are machines first of all, but They're also blessed with have been blessed with great places to reach in terms of logistics and being able to talk with Women face -to -face.

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But yeah, those guys are are amazing man. There are there are brothers and partners in this and Yeah, I mean

05:31

John Barrows if you look at the impact his ministries that I don't think you could quantify However, many children saved every single week.

05:40

I don't even every day You know that just the stories you listen to that guy tell stories and yeah, you'll be story time with uncle

05:47

Johnny yeah, you'll be through a dinner and dessert before you even Realize like how many stories that I just hear and amazing things.

05:56

Yeah, it's being of Scott Hord We've mentioned our trip to Australia here coming up pretty quick.

06:03

Yep So that's up on an abortion now if you guys are are in the land down under go to That we'll be posting the the event link as well, but it's got we are gonna be in Brisbane Sydney and then

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Christchurch, New Zealand. Yeah, and pastor Scott's coming with us So if you guys don't know he is you are in for a treat

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I'm really excited to spend that 10 or 11 days with him as well. I'm excited Yeah, just chance to get to know him a little bit more

06:31

Yeah, obviously we know what he's what he's done with the Lord's done through his ministry, but I'm excited to spend more time Oh, yeah, he's cool, dude

06:37

And then I Just totally lost what I was gonna say. So, oh I along the lines of that messages we we shared today

06:45

We've been getting a lot of messages recently from people coming out of the cults.

06:51

Yeah, yeah due to our stuff online Jehovah's Witness and Mormons, especially a lot of messages like weekly people saying hey

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I was in you know, the Watchtower Society for 40 years or you know I was a

07:06

Mormon for 40 years and I came across your stuff and you know, God saved me through that So and they ended up at apologia to yeah walking through the door.

07:14

Yeah Yeah, you're right. We had a family Come this last Sunday who they came to Christ everyone except the husband and the husband divorced them divorce the wife

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Because of that and so there it's a mom and her two kids now and so yeah, just incredible amazing

07:30

We praise God for that. And again, thank you all access because you make all that possible. So Okay, so we wanted to touch briefly on This Brett Kavanaugh Situation.

07:44

Yeah, if you happen to be living under a rock and don't know what's going on Because it's all over right now.

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So President Trump nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh to replace Kennedy right on the

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Supreme Court You know, and so he's obviously a conservative judge Which we're excited for And but though, you know, we everyone is expected some

08:12

Retaliation or what have you from the left? But to this degree,

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I'm not sure Yeah, and I we we're also gonna talk about our our good friend

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Doug Wilson wrote an article which we shared Yesterday, I think yeah was yesterday called the blood sacrament

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Which we'll talk about if you haven't seen that look for a blog check it out blog and may blog. It's Seriously, one of the best articles

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I've ever read from Doug But we're gonna we're gonna talk about that briefly. But anyway, so essentially what's going on is, you know, they're putting them through the ringer and all of a sudden there's

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People from like some woman from 30 years ago in high school claiming that he sexually assaulted her

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You know, and so we're not we're not here to say Whether or not we think he's innocent or guilty.

08:59

It looks like he's innocent and looks like this is a smear campaign We'll let that go to the actually

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I think the hearings right now. It's going on right now. I think Christine Ford is the yeah

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What what they've deemed to be the most credible and incredible means well, it's not completely outside the bounds of possibility happening

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For it to happen. So she just gave her Testimony and then I think

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Kavanaugh they're having on later in the afternoon Defend his position. Okay, so We're not here to talk about necessarily whether he's innocent or not, but to talk about One the law of God.

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Yeah, and and talk about Doug's blog and and I loved what Doug said And I hadn't really thought about it this way but basically

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Doug saying this is this is It's a war and it's a battle over worship, right?

09:52

That's right. Yeah, and so you have the left who worships comfort who? wants

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The the right to murder their children the portion. Yeah, the you know culture of death

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That's that's what they worship, right? And so they're they're willing to fight over that They're willing to go to any and every extent even if that means in this situation possibly falsely

10:16

Accusing someone we'll get into that in order to you know Take them down because I will mention to that this that judge

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Kavanaugh if he becomes if he's nominated or if he's you know Voted in he will be the the vote that puts it

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Yeah, kind of the over the edge not maybe not the swing, but the size of exactly it's possible. So it's it's it's huge and and I loved what

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Doug said because He said ultimately this is a battle over blood sacrifice

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So on there's on the left side. You have them fighting over the

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Right to lawfully and legally Sacrifice their own blood their own children again in the name of comfort and on our side in our position.

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We're saying We're fighting for Christ blood sacrifice, right?

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Yeah for our sins and it's you know, it's a gospel issue for us so I loved how he how he kind of Worked that all out and and brought it to that point so so yeah,

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I mean one other thing too is Zack and I were talking about this before the show just You know, the left is willing to like I said go to any and every extent to to win this war

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Yes, but why is it that Christians aren't why is it? Why is it that we're not willing to?

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To Sacrifice everything in order to stand up for you know

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The lives of these preborn children to love our neighbor as ourselves Yes, and obviously that doesn't mean going and doing things deceitfully and illegally, right, you know

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But why is it that we're content with sitting back and not fighting like the left is doing right? Yeah, so I'll let you speak before we get into it.

11:59

It's almost like I mean the secularists the the leftist feminists

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Pro -abortion advocates when their hornets nest gets kicked they come out in droves to fight them and This incident proves that it proves that the issue it really isn't about Kavanaugh, right if there was another

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Conservative Supreme Court potentially taking this place They would come out and fight just as hard and you would most likely see more allegations being brought to the surface like this

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So the reality is the situation is not about that it's about maintaining the Holy Blood sacraments or I should say the unholy blood sacraments of Women because as Andrew Sandler talked about last week

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There is a desire to create this utopia in which you have egalitarian principle at the bottom, right no distinctions

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Everyone's equal not just equal equality of opportunity but equality of outcome, right?

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So they are willing to fight tooth and nail in order to maintain

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By whatever means they have to to maintain that Yes, supposedly equal playing field and part of what comes with that is the right to murder their children

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Yeah, it's the right to what they would call bodily autonomy Yeah And so that they can go out and compete in a man's world and not be inhibited by things like children or family

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It's kind of a that perverse and false gospel becoming the best version of yourself or achieving your dreams, right?

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A lot of professing Christians today. Well, God wants you to be happy, you know, and that gets mixed in with this whole feminist mindset of yeah, whatever it takes

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Including the blood of your child in order to do that. And so that's what this issue is about.

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It's about whose blood Will be the Satisfactory sacrifice the atoning sacrifice and as Christians we're saying well, there's been an execution already

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There has been a blood sacrifice exactly. There is only one Blood shed blood on the cross of Calvary that can ultimately take away

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Sin that can ultimately cleanse from guilt shame and can purify our conscience unto living works

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Yeah living God. Yeah, but Hebrews tells us so That that's important to frame is that this this issue is not about a man

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Right. It's it's not about a man. It's about Fighting for the right to continue this.

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Yeah, and once they see even the threat and this is the thing that I I we

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I Mean, we're not overly excited about the Supreme Court situation because ultimately our faith isn't in the courts exactly

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There's is exactly because that's all they have to control right this by the consensus by the sheer force of law, right?

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And it's obviously abortion isn't settled law But that's what they have and so that's what they are willing to fight with Until they get what they want and that means forcing the rule of law on people even if you don't agree

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You will fall in line. And so That's what the issue is about.

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And so we're not basing our hope in the courts. And so guess what? We're not overly excited about Kavanaugh Is it good that it's the possibility that Roe might get overturned?

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Yeah, but all in all that's not where my hope is, right? I'm not gonna act in Accordance with the idea that Roe is a valid thing to acknowledge right first place because it's not right

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It's the tyrannical and unjust ruling of men that were out of line men that base things on faulty premises

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So my hope is ultimately in the gospel, right? but that doesn't neglect everything else that we want to do to establish justice for the unborn at the local levels and those kinds of things

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Excuse me, sir, and we've talked even if Roe gets overturned

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That as we've talked to this is that's just gonna put in a place a bunch of stupid abortion laws

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It's still gonna be legal. So there's there's a long way to go. Even if that was to happen That's not the the answer to everything it's it's a good place to start but right and this this another thing is to this comes down to justice also because secularists and Leftists and those on this side of things.

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They don't have a view of the future outside of time and space. There is no Cosmic reconciliation of all things.

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There's no final judgment like what Christians believe, right? So God is huge on justice by the way, it's a part of his character

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It's it's based in his being who he is father son, Holy Spirit So God's law he brought up God's law.

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He makes provisions in his law to make sure that Innocent people

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There's so many protections for the innocent. That's why the The Old Testament especially talks about the doctrine of blood guiltiness

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Yeah, shedding of innocent blood because God detests those things he detests

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Innocent blood being shed because it brings guilt on the land and it defiles.

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Yeah, and it corrupts the land Yeah, right and that's really what we have going on in America Oh, yeah right now, but the important thing is that God's law makes provisions even for You know things like in our nation due process

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Right, the other side wants to overthrow those things Yeah process the idea of people getting a fair trial the assumption of the assumption of innocence until proven guilty, right?

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Where does that come from? Right? What comes from the scriptures exactly comes from God's law. Exactly. You know that the fact that Someone is innocent and then follows the rule of law goes to the process evidence

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Proceedings on all those things to determine their guilt. Yeah, like the the headlines that are going around right now

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Well, Kavanaugh has to prove that he's innocent, right? It's backwards It's right so guilty until proven innocent, but that's not what

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God's Word says No That's not the picture that we were given and where we get an English common law and then of course what our nation was founded

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On to yeah, and those things are important, but these people don't care about that. Unfortunately, too. It's come to that point specifically

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When it comes to like sexual assault charges, yes, like you're automatically Guilty and you have to prove your innocence that's that's what our justice system has come to and that's scary

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Yeah, it's really to know that that's what our children are gonna grow up in our young men are gonna grow up in You know when you have children you start thinking about the future.

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Yeah with things like this And you realize that you know If an allegation can just be thrown out there if it can just be thrown out and by the mere nature of its

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You know sensitivity and the emotion of the person that's making it It just has to be taken yeah at face value, right

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Proceedings evidence all these things don't matter and God's law just to give a flavor

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Yeah, go have someone that comes forward with that. You read the book of Deuteronomy and you see

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God's testimony It says this in Deuteronomy chapter 19 verse 15 a

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Single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed

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Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established If a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing

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Then both parties to the dispute shall appear before the Lord before the priests and the judges who are in office in those days the judges shall inquire diligently and if the witness is a false witness and Has accused his brother falsely then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother so you shall purge the evil from your midst and The rest shall hear and fear and shall never again commit any such evil among you your eye shall not pity

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So it's important in God's law There's provisions to protect the innocent and if it's found that you offered false witness

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Then whatever was gonna befall the person that you accused falsely and that you're bringing this against you get that punishment

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Yeah on you if it's not out that you're lying and imagine like if that was the standard we went by you wouldn't see all

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This I mean you think about how often you know Situationally like this with Kavanaugh you have all the time you have athletes

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Being falsely accused. Yeah of rape and stuff like that and it's just for people to get money because You know a lot of times these when this happens and there's there's trust me and there's legitimate cases

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But like yes when it's a false accusation They know they're gonna get money to shut up, you know

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And so like if we use God's standard God's law This wouldn't be happening because if it's proven to be a false accusation

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Like you said there then get worthy of the punishment of that crime And you saw that God's law and the execution is a deterrent to evil

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Yeah I said He says you purge the evil from your midst and the rest shall hear and fear and shall never again commit this

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Yeah, if God's law is enacted rightly it strikes fear into the hearts of evil people, right?

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And they don't go about doing these things anymore And so you look at in our nation's highest court and these things going on right now, what would happen?

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if all of these beautiful Provisions and these parameters that were given to our nation by our forbearers just vanished tomorrow

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Can you imagine the turmoil? Can you imagine what life in the world is going to look like?

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Five years from now. Yeah ten years from now if these protections were gone. It's a scary thought

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Yeah to think about so that's why Christians need to be committed to justice. You need to be committed to The knowledge of God's law

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But also how to implement it how to apply it to society and of course as we always say We need to have a harmonious view of law and gospel

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Yeah, and you found something great on that from an Australian judge from long ago.

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Oh, yeah Beautifully emphasized this point just because we're Christians and we're all about grace and forgiveness and the gospel and the goodness of Jesus and people turning

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From their sin and coming to the Lord for forgiveness and salvation Yeah, Christians need to be as committed to justice as we are to that message because God is committed to both equally yeah, right just because someone is forgiven of their sins and Because we know that God judges at the end of history.

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Yeah, no one is ultimately gonna get away right from God's judgment But the provision of God's law is that it's better There's a provision made for the guilty person to get away

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Because there will be a final justice and a final judgment But for the innocent innocent person to be executed or judged unjustly that defiles the land right?

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It's it's it's heinous in God's sight and we need to care about yes forgiveness for people

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Yes, the gospel proclamation but seeing that justice is done and that harmony is made for the

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The victim. Yeah true victim. Yeah, and not confuse. We need to not confuse

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Forgiveness of sins and forgiveness of a crime, right? Right and and I like Bonson says, you know essentially either you're going to choose

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God's standard for law or it's gonna be a man -made some sort of Subjective Autonomous law like, you know, what is it has to be an objective standard and then in what you're talking about By the way,

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I've been doing a lot of research on the Christian history of Australia preparing for our trip and amazing history,

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I did not know of Very similar to ours, you know, it was established by a lot of Presbyterians That loved

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God's law a lot of you know Puritans and not too long after after the United States was established

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But the one story you're talking about was there was a judge I don't have a name in front of me but he had just convicted a man of murder to the death penalty that was the just You know recompense for that crime, right?

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So he had just just told him you're going to die for your crime But then and then essentially was like but now's the time to repent of your sins because you don't want

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Yes to end up in hell essentially like and that's my job big illustrate. That's the perfect. It's perfect illustration

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Exactly what we want So, yeah quickly before we switch switch topics is one other thing.

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I wanted to mention I just was listening this morning By the way, I'm gonna mention

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Doug Wilson again. Someone's on the thread Complaining about Doug Wilson.

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Yes. He's a good friend of ours just you He is one of our mentors

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And he abhors the new perspective on Paul So just to be clear about that and as far as federal vision goes

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That's a Presbyterian issue. I do not think it's heresy. I do not agree with it but whatever

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Doug used to officially associate with federal vision. He has now said that he does not but regardless he's not a heretic and Please do your homework and don't assume that he believes in associates with any of that without knowing for sure

25:07

Anyways, love Doug. So I was listening to the podcast today. That's his podcast weekly podcast.

25:13

I love it It's like 30 minutes, which is great. It is I mean Pick it up. Yeah, so though his episode today

25:21

I'm gonna find it here was I Can't remember the title of it now but It's He was talking about Abortion of the

25:33

American family. That was it? Yeah You did listen. Yeah, I did so good, right? So like so I this is going back to the abortion discussion we were having so he essentially says that I Think it's

25:49

Roe right that there. I'm maybe it wasn't Roe but the law that said that women have the right to Essentially You know murder their children, but it's between them and their doctor, right?

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so so when a little bit of context, so when Roe was given that was the The verdict essentially that they looked in the penumbra of the

26:09

Constitution, which is in the shadows It means it's not explicit in there. It's not even implicit Yeah they just somehow fabricated that the right to abortion was contained in the right to privacy and that it was between a woman and Her physician right so to go on with probably what you were gonna say was in that episode

26:28

He talks about how essentially that has led to the abortion of the American family in that marriage vows

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The vows that men take to their women Yeah, when they stand at that altar before witnesses become utterly meaningless

26:44

Yeah if a man is pledging his fidelity his affection his

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Provision to be there and to take care of his wife and sickness and in health for richer for poorer and to always be there until death that Clause, you know makes those vows meaningless because now men have been shoved aside

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Yeah on this whole thing and what he what how Doug words that he calls it The he says that we've bastardized our children, right?

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Because essentially now these children Have no father because the father has no say

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Like he's still a you know, if a woman becomes pregnant, there's still a father right but according to Roe now

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The father has no say in whether or not that child lives or dies. And so I love that I was like, so, you know now we've bastardized our children like they have no dad they have and and that's all that's all that purpose and intent of Cultural Marxism.

27:37

That's what they've been trying to do is destroy the family destroy Fathers destroy the patriarchy and do you want the evidence that it's been successful?

27:46

Go ahead. I stand outside of an abortion clinic every week and You know who goes into the door first when it's a man and a woman.

27:55

It's always the woman. Yeah I've talked to many a young man out there at the clinic and you know what they tell me

28:01

I can't do anything It's her choice. Hmm Do you want to know that the the bitter sowing of this poison into our culture has produced?

28:11

I see it every week. Yeah, it's it's true. That's what's happened and Unfortunately, we bought it hook line and sinker

28:20

We have not brought the Word of God to bear on this issue whatsoever and the idea that some kind of vague notion of right to privacy existed exists in the

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Constitution that allows for this abolition of the family Yeah, and the removal of a man and his role from his family to lead to protect to provide for his

28:43

His seed essentially to take care of his family and his wife But the secularists don't care about that.

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They want those things gone. Those things are oppressive institutions that need to be overthrown like Brett Kavanaugh Kavanaugh's a part of this.

28:59

Well, that's what this whole thing is funny. I saw a clip yesterday I think my dad was watching Fox News or something and there was some some woman going off about how this is

29:08

All about the patriarchy and just you know, like I'm just like calm on or like I feel like that that drum has been beaten so much lately that it's just like Like it's almost like it does.

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It's not even effective anymore because it's just like alright, here we go again the patriarchy But yeah, but maybe just one encourage.

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Yeah before we move on. I think Christians Have to be just as and I'm gonna say more so Offended when someone kicks our hornet's nest and spits in the face of our

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God if you don't match the intensity of the secularists and the feminists and the left and all the people that are seeking to Destroy your posterity and the heritage that you have in Jesus Christ and the nation

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That carries his principles in its very application of its law and founding institutions you must we must together repent because Where are all the

30:05

Gideon's? Where are all the people men and women Christians going into the culture tearing down the idols of the culture if you want to know?

30:12

Where an idol is look at where the reaction is most hostile. Mm -hmm. Look at what's going on right now

30:18

They are attacking right now because someone kicked their nest and it didn't take a lot even the perceived threat

30:24

Yeah, but they could lose one of their idols, right? They come out they show up and they are mobilized active and they're loud

30:31

Yeah, so where are you Church rise up in that because daily the culture is spitting in the face of your

30:38

God, right and James White put it a different way, right what? The Colts do for a lie.

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Most Christians won't do for the truth. Mm -hmm So we need to take that we need to apply that and say to the church

30:52

You need to get out of the four walls. You need to get out of your home You need to go where the conflict is because where the battle rages there the loyalty of the soldier is proved

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Yeah, that's a Martin Luther. So that's good so you need to be where the conflict is and you need to go to those places and you need to bring the

31:09

Word of God there and you need to Unleash the good news

31:15

Essentially, that's that's that's what that's our weapon as Christians is the Word of God. Yeah, right. We don't wage war

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Against flesh and blood our war is a spiritual battle and these people are erecting their idols and they're tearing down all

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Vestiges of your God in your country, right, right. We don't live in a

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Christian country anymore We live in a secular nation with Christian vestiges hanging around now So it's time to get to work and to take that back.

31:44

Yeah, that's good Sex fired up speaking of doing a good job of that. I want to give a shout out real quick to Our dear friends brothers and sisters in Ireland.

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Yes, Ireland Oh, man, if you guys see this we were so proud of you guys the other day They went to and stood in front of the the

32:04

Capitol building in Belfast in Northern Ireland proclaiming The Gospel and you know fighting for the lives of innocent pre -born children there.

32:16

Yes, so good job guys We're super proud of you and go follow them. Their campaign is let them live.

32:21

Yes Facebook go like their page support what they're doing and how exciting yeah

32:27

I feel like my week my wee ones are all growing up over there your little cubs Anyways, so we're gonna switch topics now.

32:36

My mom's been patiently waiting over here. She's been so patient So I'm gonna actually be in the next few months doing some things to Kind of honor my grandparents my my mom's parents and so briefly they they were

32:56

Medical missionaries in the jungle in Africa they went in the in the late 50s, right?

33:03

literally just at the time they had two children they just Packed everything up and essentially in a station wagon and drove

33:11

Into the jungle until they reached the station and my grandpa built a hospital and there's a hospital now that's still being used and so really really cool stuff, so I'm gonna be doing some stuff hopefully the next few months to kind of honor them and and Some interviews and stuff my my cousin actually had done with them before they passed

33:27

So I think last time you were on grandpa grandpa was still alive wasn't he heard he had just passed Okay, so it's been it's been a while.

33:34

So what's I've been for four years three years five years Grandpa yeah

33:41

Six years. Yeah. Okay. So and then my grandma just passed away almost two years ago So anyways, we're gonna be doing some stuff

33:48

Some really cool stuff with that. But since my mom was here, I wanted to have her tell some more stories

33:55

Just some really cool stuff and I know Zach's never heard this Some of this stuff. So I'm all ears.

34:01

We have a lot more listeners now And so I wanted to kind of share some of that stuff. So What what is your favorite story?

34:11

Oh By the way, my mom was born in Africa. I forgot to mention that so she was actually born there and I always joke that she is truly

34:18

African American because she has to a dual citizenship and in the Congo and Wow, also

34:25

United States So yes, so anyways, so you were born there and you

34:31

Left when you were three, right? They had to flee because of a war and it's still to this day of wars Destroying that nation the

34:39

Belgian Congo and I think now it's a Democratic Republic of Congo. I think We've actually been trying to possibly go there and do some work, but it's not even safe.

34:47

Yeah Anyway, so what's your favorite story that you want to tell and then I have some I'll be tell as well

34:54

Probably my favorite one is when the Simba's were Gonna be coming to our station and then

35:01

Simba's were the rebels So is that one of the questions you were gonna ask me? So We knew that the rebels first of all independence came to Congo.

35:15

It was a Belgian colony and Belgium gave independence to the country and So when

35:22

Independence Day came it was relatively calm We had village people coming to our house with baskets asking for independence because they'd been told they were given independence

35:32

But they didn't understand what it was. Oh, wow, and Because I was considered Congolese.

35:38

My mom was really nervous for my safety. So at that point I remember

35:43

I wasn't allowed out of her sight, which was unusual. I Had village children I played with and but I was never allowed off our porch and out of her sight.

35:54

So my Independence Day came and went and Everything was calm. So dad went back to the hospital and started on just normal days, but then as it progressed the longer the longer away from Independence Day then the

36:11

Simba's which was Swahili for lions They started going from village to village and just murdering anyone who was basically

36:21

European and We my dad had a shortwave radio and he always listened to voice of America so he would that's how he would get his news and he was tracking the

36:34

Simba's and we were in the very center of the country the very we were in the Kibu rainforest and our village was called

36:41

Kachungu and He knew that they were on their way to our station and we had another

36:48

Missionary family that was at our station with us that were waiting for my dad to deliver their baby so they were trying to decide what to do and dad tried to induce the baby, but The baby wasn't born so he met with the village elders the ones that he had trained the

37:07

Christians in the church and Asked them what they wanted us to do and they said we want you to leave and go back to your country

37:17

Because when the Simba's come we can go to the jungle and hide but you won't be able to you won't survive And if you go back to your country, then

37:25

Maybe you can come back to us at some time. So I remember us packing by flashlight like at midnight and Remember my mom saying you can take one toy

37:41

I still have the doll that I chose but We just packed the best that we could and my dad went and walked through the hospital the

37:50

Belgian government and appreciation For what he was doing built him a real hospital that he was never even able to use

37:58

I want to start by saying before you didn't finish the story what he had been using

38:03

Was a hospital they built out of mud bricks and they actually he actually made a kiln Where he had natives that were constantly 24 -7 making mud bricks because it rained so much it would just deteriorate the wall

38:16

So they were constantly replacing. So that's what he had been using. So now the Belgian government made him a hospital

38:22

That's actually there today, but I'll eat so they came and they built him a real hospital with real concrete and real bricks and They gave him the keys to it

38:33

We're just a short time before we had to flee it he never even got to use it So he had the night

38:39

That we were packing he went and walked through the hospital with a flashlight to see what he could bring home and the only

38:45

Thing he was able to bring home where he brought his diplomas off the wall, but he had taken out barrels and barrels and barrels of insecticides to fight all the termites and the drivers ants and everything and they were stored in the ceiling of the hospital so we okay, so we left and it took us five days to get to the border city and we crossed into Rwanda and there was a refugee camp set up on Lake Kivu and Then two days after we crossed the border the border city was captured

39:20

So then if we had waited longer than we wouldn't have made it out. Oh, wow the baby was born along the way, but it was still born and Then the

39:31

Simba's did finally arrive at our station and They gave 24 hours to anybody who was in the hospital to leave but if they were too sick, then they just dragged him out into the middle of the compound and cut them open with machetes and poured gas on gasoline on them and burned them and These were their own people.

39:52

Yeah, it wasn't like these were foreigners. These were their own people But the group of Christians there was 12 men that my dad had trained and their families and they fled to the jungle and The jungle isn't like our force here in the

40:07

States, right? It's Rainforest very very dense. You have to like cut your way through with the bupanga or machete and They were following animal trails and they were just night and day night and day

40:21

Running for their lives and they got to a point where they had no food No more water and they the women were just couldn't go any further

40:29

So the men put the women and children together in a group and they went in search of food and they just got a short ways away and they heard screaming and yelling and they came back and the

40:39

Simba's had found them and Captured the women and children and they were armed with machine guns Our pastors were only had the native spears and machetes

40:48

But they were able to fight them off and they rescued the women and children and just took off through the jungle again and they came to a fork in the trail and one

41:00

One way went upstream and when we went downstream and they didn't know what to do They went downstream and they got to the edge of the river, which was extremely deep crocodile infested

41:13

And there was no way they could swim across it and they just fell to their knees and just started praying and then the

41:21

Simba's got to the same fork, but they went upstream and they came to the same

41:27

River, but they when they got to the river, they saw native canoes that were tied up along the bank and They said we need to cut these

41:38

Canoes loose so that then the Christians won't find them and get away So they cut them loose and pushed them out into the river and God brought them right in front of the

41:46

Christians when they quit praying When they stopped praying and opened their eyes the canoes were right there in front of them

41:53

Wow And the way that we know that is that after the uprising then one of the pastors

42:03

Was able to communicate with my dad in the States writing back and forth and then dad

42:09

Sent their son to medical school to be a doctor to his own family his own people Because we were never able to go back.

42:16

And so then up until I seen Up until my top my dad passed away in his late 90s, even like I was early 90s

42:25

He was still communicating with this young. Well, it wasn't a young man anymore, but still communicate with him

42:31

So I think that's probably my favorite. Yeah, it's mine as well. And so I forgot I want to mention to that We uh,

42:37

I know Jeff and I are always encouraged because You know, we're like you know, there's a time where we're just like feeling like discouraged or whatever like I always think of my grandparents because you know, like They really truly sacrificed.

42:53

Yeah, and suffering and suffering, you know like and And yeah, and I also want to mention

42:58

I mean, they were very they were big supporters of our ministry very early on When we didn't have any money they were they were helpful

43:07

So a lot of what you see today is even here because because of their their help tell

43:13

What they were gonna take you right and kill grandpa tell tell tell that it was in writing.

43:19

We found out later that They were gonna be taking my father to force him to be a doctor to the

43:25

Simba's that's why they were on their way to our station because Dean they knew he had a hospital there and was there and Then I had two sisters and a brother and my mom

43:34

I had been promised as a wife to one of the chiefs because I was considered a prized possession because I was white but I was

43:42

Congolese and but they would have murdered they would have Raped and murdered my mom and my sisters.

43:49

Well, they well Debbie was born there too, wasn't she? No, she Oh, that's right. Shoot. That's right. Gives down the furlough and then

43:58

Tell the story of The little boy Dude neighbors him.

44:04

Yeah, tell that story. I love this story. So on Sundays my dad would go to all the neighboring villages and he would tell them if he would let if the people would listen to him preach then he would treat their sick afterwards and So that we have a one of our slides.

44:20

We have a picture of this little boys three years old. I'm Obviously very sick his belly is all bloated, but he has a kid a liver disease

44:28

His skin is covered with tropical itch. His eyes are swollen shut his hair should be

44:36

Cold black and it was already turning gray. And so he just obviously is very sick And so dad asked where his mother was and they said his mother's dad and this little three -year -old

44:48

I've been scrounging through the garbage of the village on his own And so then they went and asked where's his father

44:55

So they went brought his father to him and he said I don't want him You can have him like you would give a sick dog or a cat away

45:01

So dad took him back to the hospital and then we have a picture of him a few weeks later

45:07

Healthy happy and there was one of our the Christian families in the church that couldn't have children and they adopted him

45:14

They gave him the name dude on a which means gift of God Um, yeah, isn't that cool and then

45:21

I mean even just like you there's all kinds of stories just how Backwards the family structure was they didn't have the word love in their vocabulary so Mom and dad had to teach them what that was.

45:36

They had no Like our instincts if we don't have enough food we feed our children first They were community the women would prepare the food

45:46

But the men would always eat first Then the women if there was any food left the children ate if there was no food the children were hungry

45:54

Which is completely opposite from our society The mothers would nurse the babies, but if they had no milk the babies just died.

46:02

There was nothing there was no other options so that was one of the things that they would

46:09

There would be many babies that would come that were starving from malnutrition that all they needed was formula or Even goats milk or something.

46:18

But if the moms couldn't feed him, they just left them to die. Yeah, can you imagine going in like? Trying to like share the gospel and like they don't even know

46:28

I have a word for love like right. Yeah, that's crazy Yeah, just trying to communicate that. Yeah in word and in action.

46:34

Yeah showing them to one another thing too, I was just thinking was uh So so talk about the witch doctors and you know how the people will come with needles and all that there was a witch doctor in our village and then when dad came and then he was

46:53

Doing surgeries or giving medicines. They the people would see him giving shots

46:58

They thought that his scalpel was magic because they believed in witchcraft.

47:03

Yeah, or the needles So then he would have People come that had been like horribly cut or mostly like needles stuck in them like massive

47:13

Infections because the witch doctor didn't understand would just put needles in them

47:18

So then what dad realized he needed to do was whenever he would do surgery he always took a member of the family and with him to the operating room and Then he would speak in their language while he was doing the surgery and explained exactly what he was doing

47:35

So then when the patient woke up, then they the family member could explain.

47:40

This is what they did. There was no magic Yes, he has a knife, but it's not magic

47:45

And so that was really really important that um that they understood that there wasn't any witchcraft

47:52

Involved but the witch doctor. I remember one story my dad saying that there was a woman who?

47:59

though she came to have a baby and Everything was fine but she said

48:06

I'm going to die because the witch doctor said if I come I will die and Dad went and checked on her the baby wasn't time for the baby to be born yet.

48:15

So he went up to her house to eat dinner and Everything was fine. Her vitals were fine.

48:21

She was progressing. Everything was fine She just kept saying I'm gonna die and dad said no, you're fine.

48:28

Everything is gonna be good you're gonna have a healthy baby and a Few hours later that I'm one of the nurses came running up to her house and she had died.

48:37

There was no No explanation. There was no medical reason but that's how strong witchcraft was that she truly believed that She was gonna die if she came to the hospital and she did

48:49

Hmm so witchcraft was very very real. Yeah, very very real very

48:56

Alive. Yeah. Yeah, so he so I just I'm just thinking you know this goodness back in the late 50s

49:02

Grandpa went ahead like then like disposable needles and stuff. They wouldn't I'm sure I'm assuming they had to disinfect those same ones

49:08

How did he get I never thought about this? How did he get? all the medicine and stuff they used he took

49:16

He took um supplies out before you before when he knew he was going then he collected supplies and tons and tons of equipment out with us and then hospitals or doctors always get samples

49:32

He even took out things that I don't know if they were expired or not But like say you get samples people were constantly giving them donations and he would take those things out

49:42

But something as common as just plain penicillin Actually will stop leprosy

49:48

He treated many lepers And so he just needed common medicines.

49:55

He didn't need the fancy Antibiotics that we have now. He just needed straight old penicillin or Sulfur medicine cured a lot of the tropical ulcers

50:05

So a lot of things were just very common and but he would have it shipped out from the state

50:11

So he had supplies that he had to go to Bukavu to get it though, right? It would be shipped to Bukavu that was the closest city.

50:19

How long did it take to get there? It was 200 miles away, but it was because it was jungle roads

50:24

It would take anywhere from 24 to 48 hours depending could even take longer depending on if it had rained if it was rainy season and the road had collapsed or you never knew what was gonna happen and Then they went into town twice a year and then my mom would buy supplies or they would pick up things that they had ordered

50:43

Twice a year. Wow. Yeah. Um, do you remember the the picture that you had on your your

50:49

Facebook is your banner? Yeah, and they were holding the posters as the evangelization of the world in this generation.

50:54

Yeah, that's actually my great -grandparents So that was my one generation before. Yes, sir. Okay, so my grandpa we're talking about it was his parents

51:01

So they actually I didn't even talk about them. They actually Weren't went ahead gone to Africa my my grandpa.

51:07

My mom's dad was actually born in Tanzania Tanzania, so he was actually born there.

51:13

They were met their missionaries there And and then they had to come back. My great -grandfather had a brain tumor.

51:20

He ended up dying from but they came back to the States So my grandpa then went back, you know, and what a vision years later or whatever.

51:28

What a vision of I mean It's so counter to our Christianity here in the

51:34

United States It's so full of travail and hardship and suffering and death and witchcraft and all these dark spirituality there

51:43

But to have that be the banner that you raise up the evangelization of the world in this generation

51:49

Like that's a victorious vision. Yeah And one of the charges that people bring against people that have a victorious vision of the future

51:56

Right there that the gospel is gonna be successful the kingdom of God is gonna advance and that you know

52:02

The gates of hell aren't gonna prevail against the church essentially, right? Is that well, how can that be true when there's you know hardship and you know

52:13

The culture seems like it's descending into further lunacy and and all these things but you had people missionaries that experienced true suffering yeah true hardship and Evangelized and treated the sick and and the helpless

52:27

Who maintained that vision because that's usually the charge brought against those who hold a victorious vision of the future

52:32

Well, yeah, of course you can hold that when things are good. Yeah, you know things weren't good.

52:38

Yeah, you know there was a Setting and a backdrop which you know, your family was working and that must have seemed hopeless at times

52:46

Well, even um, I'm gonna look up the dates right now When they when my great -grandparents went it was it was a 1907 right?

52:56

I think it was 1907 When was World War one? so this was somewhere in the 12 to I'm look 18s, right?

53:06

So this was Yeah 1914 to 1918 so this was right.

53:13

They went right before World War one and I think they I think they came back 1915 wasn't it when they came dad was born in 21.

53:23

Oh, no, so it's even later. It was after he was born in 21 and Maybe they when they came home when he was like seven

53:33

Okay, so this was after World War one between World War one and World War two, which is already it.

53:38

Yeah wildly depressing Yeah, I'm I think to be alive. Well, they came back then I think they missed the

53:44

Great Depression didn't because they were in Africa. Yeah, they missed it But yeah, all that's going at the same time, you're right, so yeah

53:50

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely just to have that view of Hopefulness and holding that banner high is as a legacy.

53:57

Yeah, so that's why I have them I don't know if I'll ever take that down a little bit encouraging to me

54:04

And actually on the set for next week. We each, you know, have a little cubby thing. We decorate and stuff.

54:10

So I actually have my grandpa's Missionary medical bag in there.

54:17

So it's got his name. It's got some tracks and something. There's actually I think some catheters or something

54:26

That's there and actually my mom this brought me I'm gonna put in that bag is my grandpa's

54:32

Gideon New Testament that he carried with him everywhere. It's got some notes and something in some pretty Excited about that.

54:38

Well, let's man. Yeah. So what else you got any other stories you want to tell we get a few minutes yet Just was gonna tell him how the hospital survived.

54:45

Yes, go for it. So the he had taken all these barrels of insecticides that he was storing in the attic of the

54:53

Hospital and when the Simba's came they were smashing everything. They were just intent on destroying everything

54:59

So they went through and were smashing and breaking everything and then when they went to the attic they were tipping over all the barrels when the chemicals mixed it made a poisonous gas and killed them instantly and So they thought dad had put a curse on the hospital

55:15

And so they they did a they didn't destroy the hospital and that's the only reason why it was survived

55:21

Yeah, so then they are actually using it today We have pictures of it Luke will be able to like we have pictures of it that are current.

55:30

Yeah, it's Bad shape it needs a lot of but they're still standing use it. It's still standing

55:35

Well, yeah, it's it's amazing My dad and I have been talking about trying to find a way to go over there and maybe help because the hospital

55:42

I'm pretty sure it's the original like coat of paint and like, you know, it's it's an it's it's rough

55:48

But there it's usable and it's a hospital in the jungle, you know, but what's what's incredible because of this worldview right because of this

55:58

You know just hatred for your neighbor. It's the Congo is still in shambles today

56:04

And like I said, it's not even safe for us to go we've had people tell us don't go you can't it's not safe And we're like,

56:12

I just want to go and help me only and like the house my mom was born in so it's it's barely up, but it's still there and But just to see like it's just so sad.

56:23

They're still it. They're still living like that way, you know, you know, it's 60 years later, you know, so like It's just it's just it's sad to see what

56:37

Humanity looks like without Jesus yeah, right and then in the and what kills us is like we we really want to go and try to help and Like but we can't because they're so so hell -bent on killing one another

56:52

It's not even safe to go there if you're white basically, so It's just sad it's sad to see that but what's amazing is, you know, my grandpa and my grandparents left the

57:03

Christian legacy, you know, there's Christians. There's a church there. Yes. They still use every Sunday that the church needs some help but you know and So so even in God's sovereignty, there's there's still that remnant there, you know, and for us it's like, you know

57:18

We got all of our first world problems, you know And so we so some of that's how we look at and we're like, oh man, there's so much they're missing out on, you know

57:26

Yeah, it's like but there's still those Christians there that love Jesus Yeah, you know and there's pastors there and they're going into the jungles, you know, so Even look at like China right now yeah,

57:39

I mean that's going on in China and in places like that where the church is just thriving and booming like under the threat of being

57:47

Expunged from the nation like they're thriving and growing and what kind of faith

57:52

You know, it takes to be a Christian there because there's such a dependency upon God Yeah to act to move to protect to protect the

58:00

Christian witness of the gospel Against all these threats, you know, that's that's something that the church in America is gonna need

58:09

They're gonna need the example of our brothers and sisters across the globe in the Congo Yeah in China in all these places where the

58:18

Church of Jesus Christ is experiencing growth amidst all of this hardship and turmoil and we know that Scripture gives us an example of that too

58:29

Something that every Christian I think has to come to terms with where it says in Hebrews chapter 10

58:37

But you had compassion on those in prison and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your own property Since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.

58:46

Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward For you have need of endurance so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what is promised hmm, like I Don't feel like that could be true of the church in America right now

59:00

Well, we could joyfully accept the plundering of our property if it came to that. Hmm, you know, we love our stuff so much

59:07

No, you love we love even our nice church buildings. We love the stuff in it We love the things that we accumulate in our homes.

59:13

We love our possessions, but You know, is it Jesus more and his mission of kingdom advancement of the gospel?

59:21

Yeah that we treasure more than those things our treasures in heaven or are they treasures on earth where moth and rust and break in And steal and destroy.

59:29

That's good. I have that discussion with my seven -year -old all the time Yeah, and I asked that to myself just as much you willing to give up your stuff.

59:36

What about your freedom, right? Yeah Well, we are it's about a time anything else you want to add

59:47

Those are the those are the ones I was hoping to tell but if there's more we can keep going so Yeah, there's something else you want to talk about Yeah, so yeah good good point so my great -grandparents so one thing that they had done is they helped build

01:00:01

Thank you. I didn't think well that they had helped build Rift Valley Academy in Kenya and it was at Naira is in Nairobi outside.

01:00:11

Yeah, and So actually we have pictures. I haven't even on my facebook.

01:00:17

There's pictures of President Teddy Roosevelt was there

01:00:23

On Safari, I think he wasn't president then was I don't think he was president I don't know if it's before or after but anyways

01:00:29

He was there in Safari and actually helped laid the cornerstone Pictures of my grandparents with him like in the cornerstone.

01:00:37

Anyways, so they helped build Rift Valley Academy. It's still being used today And it's actually it's it's pretty big.

01:00:44

It's one of the biggest schools in Africa where missionaries send their kids.

01:00:51

So it's a missionary kids school Yeah, it's an MK school and it's still being used today. It's one of the biggest in Africa I've come across a lot of people that know of it or even gone to it

01:01:02

Attended it and so yeah, that's a thank you for bringing that up. So yeah, and thank you for sharing all those by the way

01:01:08

That was amazing. So hopefully soon we'll be Sharing some more stuff.

01:01:13

I guess I might my cousin happened to get an interview with my grandparents. It's like a four -part interview

01:01:21

These stories and more just really cool and encouraging stuff. So we're actually gonna be putting those up on our channel at some point

01:01:28

But anyways, that's that's it for dating anything else no you want anything else good man

01:01:34

So thanks again everyone for listening today And again, thank you so much all access.

01:01:41

You guys are amazing Your support and encouragement is a blessing

01:01:47

Keep doing what you're doing. And you know this it's amazing You talk about my great -grandparents evangelism evangelization of you know world this generation.

01:01:57

Look at how God's using our our ministry worldwide because of the internet something

01:02:04

My great -grandparents could even fathom, you know, and so Again, thank you everyone.

01:02:09

That's a part of that and partners with us. So Please be praying for us as we prepare for Australia I can be looking for those links if you're there in Australia or New Zealand will be there

01:02:20

November 6th through the 11th our our days I don't know what that is

01:02:26

Australia because it's yeah, man, you guys are like a day ahead so anyways be watching for that stuff be praying for us as we're getting ready for that and be praying for pastor

01:02:35

Jeff and pastor Zack is they are Missionship right now in Kauai supporting our church plant and I think that's it.

01:02:42

So Peace out. Aloha Thanks, mom.