Response to Southwestern on King James Controversy, Part 5 (Letus / Riplinger)

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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God a worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth

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Alpha and Omega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast The Apostle Peter commanded all

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Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence

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Your host is dr. James White director of Alpha and Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church If you'd like to talk with dr.

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White, you can call now by dialing 602 -274 -1360. That's 602 -274 -1360

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Or if you're out of the Metro Phoenix dialing area, it's 1 -888 -550 -1360.

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That's 1 -888 -550 -1360 And now with today's topic, here's

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James White Well, I shouldn't have done it. I knew I shouldn't have done it, but I did it anyways

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What do I mean well as We've been providing a response to the

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Southwest Radio Church series on King James only ism and I do appreciate those of you who've dropped us messages letting us know how much you've appreciated the programs letting us know that it has been helpful to you to Hear a response and to hear the interaction and just as we did a lengthy section last a lengthy series last summer

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Responding to Norman Geisler's chosen but free this summer We're doing a series in response to the

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King James only controversy and the Southwest Radio Church attack on my book. I Got an email from someone who's been listening to the program

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And they mentioned that they went to the Southwest Radio Church website to listen to the programs we were responding to and lo and behold they happened to run across a

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Series of programs done with Gail Ripplinger and these aired

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January 11th and 12th of 1999 I Shouldn't have done it.

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I know I shouldn't have done it, but I went and listened to them and I know we're responding to dr.

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Liedis right now, but as I've pointed out Theodore Liedis Recognizes that Gail Ripplinger is not even on the same planet that he's on when it comes to the issue of the

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King James Version of the Bible I'm sure in Theodore Liedis's perspective Gail Ripplinger is an absolute embarrassment

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But here you have the vice president of Southwest Radio Church interviewing

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Gail Ripplinger for two days Now I'm gonna play a couple sections of this and I don't know how much

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I need to say in response to what you're about to hear I play it again to show the hypocrisy of the attacks on my book

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Why do I say hypocrisy? because if you're going to respond to a book a you should respond to what actually says but be to make it appear as The Southwest Radio Church tried to make it appear that dr.

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Liedis and dr. Waite are on the same page Was simply dishonest because they're not secondly,

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I think there is an element of hypocrisy on dr. Liedis's part to even be on the

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Southwest Radio Church programs without making it very clear Who he's talking about when he talks about?

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Those representatives and defenders the King James Version of the Bible that are an embarrassment that are irresponsible

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Now we know he means people like Gail Ripplinger, but given that he's attacked the Dean Burgon Society Why not say

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DA Waite as well? Let's be honest with when we're on these radio programs if they were to call me up and say hey

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Would you like to be on our program? I would say yes as long as I can say anything that I need to say and I can point out

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That The the double standards that have been used on your program as long as I can point out that you know

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The Southwest Radio Church promoted the y2k thing. They had Grant Jeffries on they did all this stuff

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Promoting what what was it really a fraud and a hoax and all the rest of stuff if I was willing to say those things

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Able to say those things and fine. I'll be on and I'll present my position Dr. Liedis doesn't do that.

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So I shouldn't have done it. But when I started listening To what Gail Ripplinger said on the

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Southwest Radio Church and the fact that the announcer the person doing the interview the host

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Said nothing about what you're about to hear. It was amazing. And so I had to bring this material to you

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I I had some people in our chat room listen to this and see if if maybe

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I was missing something maybe if there was just Something that I didn't understand and they all agreed with me.

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It was some of the most amazing stuff they've ever heard What am I referring to? Well, just to give you an idea of the spectrum that the

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Southwest Radio Church has presented in defense the King James Version of the Bible Here in this first section

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Gail Ripplinger explains I think the relationship of the

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American Standard Version the NIV Rupert Murdoch and the sinking of the Titanic At least

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I think that's what she's saying Let's find out well now one of the things that I guess some of our listeners have been wondering about Gail is

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When did the new versions first appear in America are these brand new things that just came about in the last 20 or 30 years?

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Well, you know the Titanic traveled to America from England in 1912 This was the same year as the corrupt

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American Standard Version and coincidentally It was a man named Murdoch who threw the famous Titanic into reverse

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Causing it to sink now scientists have just discovered that of course it wasn't a big gash, but as previously thought that sunk the

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Titanic, but six small slits and Today's NIV has cut out 64 ,000 words and 16 verses now back in 1912 the

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New American Standard Bible had Timothy Dwight of the infamous Skull and Bones Society as a committee member

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I have an educated guess about why the Titanic sunk and why the NIV will eventually sink in the lake of fire

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The Titanic was from something called the white star line owned by JP Morgan And the term white star is a code name for Lucifer If someone needs to document this they could read the book mastering witchcraft by Paul Henson and includes a prayer to Lucifer which states thou of the unholy

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Trinity help us whose star is white Blot out the red star now

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They are praying that Lucifer will take the place of our precious blood -stained Savior the Lord Jesus Christ We remember

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Lucifer himself said in Isaiah 14. I will be like the Most High Now back at the turn of the century

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Madame Blavatsky with her newspaper Lucifer Said on its cover quote I Jesus and the bright morning star

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Lucifer. She was saying that Jesus and Lucifer were the same person Of course, this isn't true But her followers in the transactions of the first annual

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Congress of the Theosophical Society Way back at the turn of the century said quote I believe it is through the churches and not through the

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Theosophical Society That theosophy must and should come to large bodies of people in the

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West The work of destructive criticism has paved the way Sweeping away certain passages which grate on the ears the phrase washed in the blood is one now the phrase washed in the blood had been taken out of the

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American Standard Version and it's still out in Colossians 1 14 and out 40 times in the

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NIV and 23 times in the New King James Bible There's a principle in social psychology called cognitive dissonance and to change an attitude

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They recommend bringing the person into initial exposure to a message

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Which is only slightly different from the receivers beliefs and this is exactly what they've done with the

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Bible versions They get progressively worse now in the NIV today We have exactly what

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Madame Blavatsky's newspaper said we have Jesus Christ as Lucifer in Isaiah 1412 the

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King James correctly translates Isaiah 1412 as how are the fallen from heaven

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O Lucifer son of the morning Lucifer is the fallen angel Jesus Christ has never fallen.

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He is the Son of God God manifests in the flesh However, the NIV says in Isaiah 1412, how have you fallen from heaven morning star?

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So they're saying that the star and Lucifer are the same thing now in 2nd

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Peter 119 The NIV also calls Jesus Christ the morning star instead of the day star But for centuries way back at the turn of the century once again, the

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Catholic Latin Vulgate said in Latin at Lucifer oriator in 2nd

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Peter 119 now that would translate as Lucifer rising and I it strikes me as funny that in 1990s there's an underground movie called

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Lucifer rising and the soundtrack was done by that rock group Led Zeppelin So things seem to really come around that way

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You know the word for star in Hebrew is kochab and it does not appear at all in Isaiah 1412

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God uses the word star in verse 13 if you wanted to use it He could have used it in verse 12

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In fact, God uses the word star about 30 some times in the Old Testament and he does not use it in Isaiah 1412 well

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How do you respond to that? How what kind of rational response can be offered to that kind of Rambling Irrational type of thinking

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I Mean, honestly, I feel sorry for Gail Rippling. I Do not feel sorry for the pastors and men

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Who Open up their pulpit to her give her time on the radio and do not challenge her and sit there in Silence, I can guarantee you the host the program didn't understand a word.

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She was saying No one can What are they doing? Are they they're afraid they fear this woman

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She's called me a serial soul killer David cloud is one of the few King James only advocates who's had the intestinal fortitude to even disagree

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Slightly with her and she's gone after him. She's gone after Dave hunt Anyone who opposes her sit them viciously and Make fun of their last names primarily.

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That's that's one of her things as well but did anyone understand what she just said the Titanic sank and it had something to do with Rupert Murdoch and six slits in the

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Side and 64 ,000 words and 16 verses and and and white stars and There is no way to respond to that kind of thinking because it's not thinking

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It is grab any fact no matter what its context is Throw it together and as long as maybe some sounds are alike or maybe a words alike

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We throw it together as if they're somehow connected This is incredible stuff, but I have to play you one other cut

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Because dr. Leedus is talking about the the people who are unprepared Remember, I shouldn't have written this book because I'm not a specialist

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I mean just because I teach Greek and Hebrew and Greek exegesis and Hebrew exegesis and and I'm a critical consultant on a major translation and and had

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A minor in Greek and and studied this at seminary and and you know

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Seven years worth and and have taught for many that I'm not an expert in the field like he is but Gail Ripplinger has never formally studied any biblical language.

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She defends her knowledge of these issues by saying that she took Latin in kindergarten and Taught English as a second language and had students from Greece in her

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Classes and that makes her capable of dealing with the biblical manuscript issue

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Let's keep this in mind. And again, remember Southwest Radio Church presents her on the same level as Theodore P Leedus isn't that fascinating in light of that?

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Listen to Gail Ripplinger discussing Linguistics You've been studying the

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King James Version in Particular for quite a while what conclusions can be drawn about the authorized version or the

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King James Version using the tools of linguistic Analysis. Well Hebrews tells us that the

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Word of God the King James Bible is sharp and powerful God uses just the right words to make it that way now one of the elements of linguistics that new version translators

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Completely ignore is the phonesthesia or sound Symbolism of individual letters each individual letter and its corresponding sound

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Contributes to the emotional effect a word has advertisers are very aware of this element

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It's the impression of a harsh strong product is desired. It could be called Clorox If a soft delicate product is desired, they would call it pus

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Sharp and powerful words like swear words or invictus are usually used with letters that are called plosives

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Letters like P B T D K G when they are pronounced the air pressure, which has been filled up in the mouth is released

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Explosively hence the KJV use of the word damnation is much more powerful than the

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NIV or the New King James Word use of Condemnation in fact most

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D words in the Bible have a negative connotation Alphabetically the Bible begins with dagger and ends with dying and listen to just a few of the words in between Dead debt decay deceit deceit defile

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Delilah's delusion deprived despair destroy destitute devil devour disease Dragon dung dungeon dying you know our mind appears to work like a computer

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Certain signals like keystrokes will bring up an area of memory likewise certain words or even syllables or letters will bring to the conscious mind a whole battery of conjoining word memory apparently

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God has built into the English Bible a preconditioned negative Association with certain letters sounds and words the so -called archaic words in the

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King James then like dropped or This and all or despite are stripped of their much -needed impact when they are updated by new versions the

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KJV employs many other photostatic letter qualities and communicating meaning for instance it uses high -pitched fricative like F and S For instance the word fornicator with its high -pitched fricative

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F And it's plosive K sound is much stronger than NIV and the

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New King James use of the word immoral Okay, when you look at the Cambridge Encyclopedia of English language

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They will tell you that the letter M has the sound and so the encyclopedia devotes an entire section to the negative aspects of F words it comments that F and words are particularly unpleasant usually and the

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KJV uses these warning its readers using words like snare according to my calculations 40 % more often than the

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NIV or the NASB to do the encyclopedia of linguistics explains SL words

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Usually in English convey a downward motion, so if you look in the King James it will have

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Slothfulness 17 times the NIV has it zero times slain 350 times the

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NIV only has it 50 times KJV has slack 10 times and the NIV only has it five times the

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New King James and the NIV and most new versions do a great damage to the cause of Christ by changing servant the slave because according to the

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Encyclopedia that the downward position and this is alien to our sonship motives according to Ephesians 6 6

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You know the high -pitched fricative F and the plosive K sound heard in the FC words in the

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King James Most of which have a negative connotation now listen to how the NIV Disarms or make the

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Bible is feminine the KJV will have scant the NIV has short KJV skull and IV for KJV scapegoat and IV goat

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KJV scurvy and IV festering sore KJV school and IV lecture hall the

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KJV lumps the scholar and the scribe In with all the negative FC words like scarlet scorch scorn scum scoff

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Apparently when you put all the FC words in the King James Bible together They have a huge beat against the solitary word of truth, which is the scripture

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You know when you compare a dictionary or Greek lexicon to get a definition

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They may have the same denotative meaning But they will not have the same pronotative meaning for instance if you compare the word slender with the word skinny now

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There's that downward position again, so slender means you know someone who has less weight than someone else, but someone who's skinny

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That's the SK of the invictive. That's a highly charged word calling someone skinny But the slender would be the politically correct word so the

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KJV is sharp And it is powerful, and I believe these new versions are somewhat of feminized

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Well there you go folks that that that Absolutely makes the case for me

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I mean just because God's act of inspiration took place

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Over a thousand years before the English language came into existence and Just because the

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King James translators wouldn't have had the foggiest idea What in the world Gail Ripplinger just said you got to realize that makes no difference to these people

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Because the King James version is in point of fact inspired in Fact really when you think about it anything it came before the

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King James is irrelevant absolutely irrelevant What happened before 1611 makes no difference?

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Did you did you listen to that? remember this is the same woman who talked about the s of the hiss of the serpent in the letter s and Identified the five points of Calvinism with the five points of a pentagram and this kind of thinking is

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Absolutely irrational absolutely irrational and While I feel sorry for someone who actually believes it like Gail Ripplinger the people

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I hold accountable are people like the Southwest Radio Church that give her a platform and Then sit back and say nothing at the end of this long tirade that again.

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I can guarantee you The host didn't understand what she was saying and if the host doesn't agree with what she's saying

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I would say that person had a responsibility to say so But remember as far as the

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Southwest Radio Church is concerned Absolute equality here with Theodore Peletis. Why they offer her books.

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They offer his books They present her as an expert in the subject. They present him as an expert in the subject

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Should they have known that he thinks that Gail Ripplinger is completely out to lunch on these things

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Do they know I don't know. I've certainly informed them of it But one of the interesting things that we mentioned today on the program is

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I've been attempting to let dr Letis know that we are responding to him. I think that's fair.

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I think it's fair that when you're going to Respond to someone and say they have erred

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That you should if you can Let them know So we've let dr.

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Wait, no, we've let dr. Sparge Amino know and I have written to the only email address

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I have for Theodore Letis Well I've gotten a note back.

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I got a note back at my America online account and his address is also with America online

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The only address that I had that used to be listed on their web page was Letis T at AOL comm capital

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L and a capital T and So I wrote to him And I let him know that we are going to be responding to him that I feel he has misrepresented me

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I gave him the direct URLs to our web page So he can listen live if he wanted to to the archives on straightgate .com

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So he could listen if he was busy during the live presentation he could listen to it later if he wanted to and I got a little note back from AOL and The note says that my recent message to Letis T at AOL comm was deleted unread a

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Block has been placed against my email address Signed staff of AOL So dr.

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Letis doesn't even want me to drop him an email letting him know that we are responding let alone

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Will he then engage us in a conversation about it

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Doesn't it strike you is just a little bit strange Gail Ripplinger was invited to be on many programs.

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I've been on to debate me. She won't She was on with me once you can hear the results on our website

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It was ugly in Fact if you listen to the Southwest Radio Church programs with her

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It's very obvious that she sent them the questions they were to ask and she was reading her answers

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She cannot defend her position on the fly She cannot defend her position in debate

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She was invited to be on the John Ankerberg program She declined Peter Ruckman was invited to be on the

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John Ankerberg program He declined da wait was invited to be on the John Ankerberg program. He declined

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We have invited da wait to be on the program as of the date of this recording

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No response to either email or US mail contact I've already read you what dr.

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Sparge Amino has said in the one letter we've received and now dr. Letis blocks one of my many email addresses on America online so he doesn't even have to get the notification that we are dealing with the

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Now, what does that tell you? I'll tell you what it tells me if I had a position that I presented to the world as absolute truth and Yet I knew that I could not defend it

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Especially against the specific people. I was criticizing. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night folks

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But you see that's the wonderful thing about believing the truth is you can sleep at night you can sleep at night because you know that what you're saying you're willing to defend and These folks can't do it

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Why? Well, I think you've heard Why that is now going back to our response to dr.

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Letis and I know we took about 23 minutes there But I think you need to to have a context here.

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I Won't even go into the emails that I get from King James only advocates all the time that make what you just heard from Gail Ripplinger look logical

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The ranting and the raving and the name -calling and the hatred. It's incredible Absolutely incredible.

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So that's not fair. There are good solid King James only people that would never do that. You're exactly right

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But the movement has spawned the single most nasty Radical angry people of any movement

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I've dealt with and folks. I'm including Roman Catholicism Mormonism Jehovah's Witnesses in that list

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It's amazing It's absolutely amazing Now what's almost equally amazing them is to listen to Theodore Letis When going back to responding to him he in essence does what he accuses me of doing that is he makes reference to uninformed

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King James only advocates and then he says I am equally uninformed and therefore my book is an uninformed response to uninformed people and anyone who's read my book and Then listens to what

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Gail Ripplinger just said has to sit there and go has has dr. Letis even read this book Or is he just being desperately dishonest and putting these two together listen to what he says now

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This is probably the thing that annoys me the most so you see I have a bone to pick both with the irresponsible

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Advocates of the KJV who aren't as informed as they need to be and who go into printing responsibly

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Almost equally as much as I do with James White who is just as ill -informed and ill -prepared in the subject

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But finds these other advocates who publish booklets and and ill -informed books a very soft and easy target

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So what you end up having? Is someone raising the issue in a lesson informed way and someone who is less than informed?

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Addressing them in a lesson informed way and no one ever gets around to dealing with the real issues

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And I think that is the thing that bothers me the most about the entire controversy, but that basically is the context of mr.

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White's book It has often been said he who controls the context controls the argument and It is to dr.

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Letis's advantage to make it sound as if that's the context of my book But it isn't if you recall from last week.

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He's tried to make this a Christianity today defense of the status quo it has nothing to do with that he has so far not provided a single specific from the book and Seemingly is banking on the idea that those who are going to be

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Listening to him are not going to read the book and find out for themselves Now at this point in the response dr.

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Sparge Amino came back in and Mentioned that they were making available.

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Dr. Letis's book the Ecclesiastical text and he gave the 800 number and you can call and buy dr.

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Letis's book, which I guess means you can call the Southwest Radio Church and you can buy

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Theodore Letis's Ecclesiastical text and while you're at it, you might as well buy da

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Waits book promoting the Dean Burgon Society Against that viewpoint presented by Theodore Letis and and then you could buy

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Gail Ripplinger's books, too and If you put the three of them together, I can guarantee you the greatest amount of possible confusion

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What must it be like to present all this This information from completely different perspectives.

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If you read all of it, you wouldn't know what to believe It's an amazing thing to observe

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Well, we're gonna be taking our break now coming back on the other side one of the more humorous incidents between dr

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Sparge Amino and dr. Letis where dr. Sparge Amino says I didn't address something and dr

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Letis has to correct him and tell him that I did And yet even then dr.

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Letis won't tell us what he really thinks about the passage under discussion What are we talking about where you have to stay tuned to find out?

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We'll be right back here on the dividing line And welcome back to the dividing line, my name is

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James White We continue our response to the Southwest Radio Church series on the

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King James only controversy and As we've said many many times we'd love to have some of these folks on the program

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But you know, they're just really not too interested in having a dialogue on this subject they'd rather just simply say that man is wrong and Just trust what we have to say about it because we don't want to discuss it one -on -one now before the break

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I mentioned one of the more humorous things that took place and Dr. Larry Sparge Amino starts off with a question to Theodore Letis about how one -sided white is and As we listen to this section, you'll hear that.

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Dr. Letis has to correct. Dr. Sparge Amino because seemingly he didn't read my book very well and In the process though listen and see if he actually tells us what he thinks about an important passage

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First John 5 7 why it is terribly one -sided in a lot of his statements

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We're speaking about some of the fallacious Approaches that he takes and sometimes it's not what he says

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But what he doesn't say and what he omits that is problematic now I think a good example of that is first John 5 7 and 8 those who favor the newer versions

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Don't ever tell you that by omitting the Trinitarian passage in the so -called Johannine comma you end up with some serious

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Grammatical problems you have a neuter participle for example being followed by a masculine participle

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And there are some other problems of mismatched genders now white never says anything about that and lets you think that if you believe first John 5 7 and 8 belongs in the

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Scripture that you're some kind of an ignoramus who is just worshiping Erasmus and you really don't know what you're talking about Well, he does actually

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Larry address that at one point in the book and he does give an answer in terms of the grammatical

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Possibilities that would explain why the gender doesn't necessarily Require the coma you'll hang him to be there

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It's not a perfectly satisfactory answer, but if you'll note in his book when he's dealing with this subject look under the index

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He does actually address it ever well ever so briefly is what he said and Isn't it interesting that while I did address that subject dr.

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Sparge? I mean, oh, maybe didn't read the footnotes Which if you've looked at the book are a very important element actually end notes at the end of each chapter

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But it's interesting that when we look at the comma John Ian and we look at first John 5 7 what dr

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Letus goes on to say is well You know what white does is he attacks the weakest link now?

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It sounds to me and maybe you all can do some interpretation with me And by the way, the phone lines are open at 602 2 7 4 13 61 triple 8 5 5 0 13 60

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That's 602 2 7 4 13 60 and 1 triple 8 5 5 0 13 60

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Maybe you can read into what's being said here, but it sounds to me Like dr

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Letus is admitting that the comma John Ian first John 5 7 is the weakest link in the defense of the

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King James Version of the Bible and I would love to be able to ask him does he agree?

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with Dean Burgon that first John 5 7 should not be a part of The text of the

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New Testament that in fact to believe that it should be is to overthrow all of textual critical practice

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I'd love to ask da wait that question I'd love to ask Theodore lead us that question But they're not here to ask and we keep asking them to be here now in this section

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He's going to call it an interesting technique on my part to Focus on the

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Kami Ohanian anyone who's read my book However knows that I address the Kami Ohanian simply because it's addressed by all the

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King James only advocates Listen what he has to say, but this is another interesting technique of his

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I suppose to be perfectly honest All of us would have to admit that the controversy surrounding the

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Komi Ohanian is the weakest link in the entire chain of defense For the old

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Anglican Bible the King James Bible and the textual tradition underlying it so obviously what you want to do if you want to destroy a position is go out to the very weakest part of it and Distort it out of proportion as though that's representative of the entire position when in fact that isn't the case

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Well now the problem with that of course is rather simple and that is

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I didn't distort it out of all proportion Anyone who reads the book and again, no

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Specifics were provided. Why why not open the book up and say okay? here's here's what he said on 1st

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John chapter 5 verse 7 and Here's where he's wrong about 1st chapter 1st

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John chapter 5 verse 7. Dr. Leah says well, it's not a completely Satisfying answer in regards the grammar.

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Why not? We're not told it's like look I'm the expert take what

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I have to say at face value and anyone who's read the King James only controversy knows That's not something that I did in the book at all

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Now dr. Lewis goes on to say that he is annoyed with me not with my book

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Annoyed with me why because he says I am oblivious absolutely oblivious to a belief in providential preservation

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Now there's one major problem with this I Understand what

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King James only advocates mean by providential preservation but The King James only advocates like dr.

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Sparge amino and dr. Wait don't mean by providential preservation What Theodore elitist means by providential preservation and I mentioned in my book my belief in providential preservation

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Which isn't what either of them believe and so since I didn't write my book against his position and since he dismisses the majority of King James only advocates as Ill -informed backwater advocates of King James only ism

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I'm being faulted for not writing my book against his position instead of writing against the position that is having so much more impact upon the the

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Church than dr. Lee says, I mean, let's remember something Gail rippling errs book has sold 130 ,000 copies

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I can guarantee you That all of dr. Leedis's books put together have not sold 130 ,000 copies

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So if I'm going to deal in something to help the church Then I'm going to deal with that which is causing the division in the strife primarily

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So to criticize me for not responding to his book and respond to this other is Absolutely inane, but listen to what he has to say.

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One of the things that annoys me about mr. White is his absolute obliviousness to the notion of the fact that within Protestant confessional traditions from the 16th century right up really till about the 19th century all conservative

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Orthodox Protestant communities Subscribe to the notion that Not only was scripture inspired verbally, but it was preserved

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Providentially by the oversight of God. I'm not sure exactly what I did there I'm the one that put the cuts together and it keeps cutting out the last few syllables for some strange reason but I am fully aware of that and The issue is how was by the

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Bible providentially preserved and I did address this In fact, I addressed it most fully in the section on his own mentor

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Which we'll get to a little bit later on where he accuses me of misrepresenting Edward F Hills So again, it seems that these folks are assuming

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No one is actually going to go out and read my book and discover that these criticisms have absolutely no

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Foundation whatsoever. He says that in fact, I hold up Providential preservation to scorn and ridicule that I don't deal with Owen.

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I don't deal with Turretin and again These are people that the King James only advocates don't even know about They're not people that they're referring to They weren't

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King James only advocates for that matter. It is amazing the assertion that dr

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Ledis makes here in this next section and all through his book particularly when he alludes to Edward F Hills He holds up the notion of preservation or providential preservation to absolute scorn as though It's an absurd a ridiculous notion

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Without ever beating that this was a foundational principle within confessional Protestantism for nearly 400 years and in fact if you'll look in the back of his index

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He has absolutely no References to the defenders of the doctrine of providential preservation from the 17th century like John Owen You won't find him in his index.

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You won't find Turretin back there one of the most prominent defenders of the doctrine of providential preservation both on the continent and at Princeton Seminary and it's early days

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His book was the textbook used there when you look under Reformation in his book are the Reformers.

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He has two references each to the term

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Reformation and Reformers which means obviously he has no intention of bringing those issues

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Into the conversation. Well, that's because I was dealing with the

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King James only controversy That's what the book is about. Dr. Ledis And so again, we see that this great expert in textual issues

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Not only cannot give us specifics of any of the biblical passages that I was addressing any errors that were made in dealing with Manuscripts and dealing with Greek and dealing with Hebrew.

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You won't find a single citation provided of specific errors

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Instead what is the fundamental criticism? I didn't write a book in response to his particular ecclesiastical text theory

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Now in point of fact, and I need to put this on the website we I did do a very brief written debate with a proponent of the ecclesiastical text theory in a periodical that you may have heard of called credenda agenda and There is if you go to their website, and I neglected to bring the

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URL with me But if you just do a search for credenda agenda go to their website look at their search for my name

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You'll see a back -and -forth It's called a dispute oshio between myself and I believe it was

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Douglas Wilson on the subject of the ecclesiastical text theory so we have addressed that but that's not what this book was about because in Comparison as far as actual impact in churches the ecclesiastical text theory is

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Minuscule it's it's minor in comparison to the impact that the

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King James only controversy as a whole is Having and so it is not a matter of ignoring those folks and nor is it a matter and and and again

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This next cut and then we'll go to our phone lines this next cut comes from the very same type of criticism on the part of Letus and that is well.

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He certainly does focus a lot on on Westcott and Hort Well, that's because the

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King James only advocates focus on Westcott and Hort So I have to respond to the people that I'm quoting and listen carefully to how he describes

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The King James only advocates that aren't presenting his position in this cut if you look at what he has to say

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Under the names of Westcott and Hort. You'll see there's a whole series of References and they are of course 19th century figures.

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He virtually ignores the 16th through the 18th century concentrates on the 19th and 20th century and so distorts the entire picture as though Really this issue is really one of some ill -informed backwater advocates who are pushing the

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King James Version and ill -informed in an emotional way and that anybody who invokes the Doctrine of providential preservation really, you know has to be somebody from this fringe fringe group

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I Don't know what we did I did that CD, but It is it didn't quite burn right did it fringe group?

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Did you hear that ill -informed? Backwaters advocates now, you know, what's funny about this.

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Remember last week. I mentioned something and That is on the Pensacola Christian College tapes that were sent out both in audio and video form

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When lead us again attacked my book and pretty much said the exact same stuff. There wasn't anything really new there one of the things that he said was my book is nothing but a point -by -point rebuttal of Gail Rippling er

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So we know that One of the people that he would identify as one of these ill -informed backwaters advocates of the

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King James Bible Emotionally ill -informed would be Gail Rippling er whose books are sold by Southwest Radio Church Her second book was published under the auspices of Southwest Radio Church.

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And do you think do you think maybe just maybe? That might be why he doesn't mention her name while he's on the

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Southwest Radio Church program and They're selling his book as the special offer from the announcer.

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I Think maybe it has a little something to do with it Maybe just maybe six.

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Oh two two, seven four thirteen sixty one triple eight five five zero 1360 you're listening to dividing line and we're gonna go to our phone calls right now.

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We're going to talk to Michael in Placentia, California. Hi Michael I'm glad to have you on the air today.

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My question is what is the evidence that the canon of Scripture is complete?

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What is the evidence that the canon of Scripture is complete? I think the single most clear and obvious evidence of that is the purpose of Scripture itself that is

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Scripture is given to the church for her edification so that we might have all that is necessary for life and godliness and Therefore given that the

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Apostles have passed from this earth and that they did not Establish some sort of a system for ordaining new

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Apostles in their place That if there was let's call it book

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X that actually was Theanostos that it's God -breathed and It was unknown to the church or so far

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Ungiven then there would be that which is meant to edify and that which is necessary for life and godliness which has not been given to us and Given that the purpose is wrapped up in what

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Jesus Christ is doing in the church in his body the the Church of Jesus Christ that the result of that would be that to say that there is a open canon or I'm not sure if you're referring to open canon

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But either missing books or the the possibility of future revelation would be that God has not in fact given to the church everything that is needed for life and godliness and since we live in the last days and We await the coming of Christ and the consummation of all things not some another age in the future

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Then it would all be against the the power of God in preserving his church

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So would you say that I guess did revelation stop with the the last book in the

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Bible? Revelation as Theanostos revelation

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God breathed revelation Yes the work of the Holy Spirit of God in enlightening the hearts and minds of Individuals to understand and obey and love that which

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God has inspired in the scriptures is an ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit within the church and We confess that no man can truly understand and obey

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I think an unregenerate man can understand what the Bible says but not love it and obey it to Understand it and obey it and apply it and say yes

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Lord Jesus come into my heart Yes, Lord be the Lord of my life that requires the ministry of the

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Holy Spirit of God Thank you very much for calling Michael appreciate it 602 274 13 60 1 -888 -550 -1360 is the phone number.

46:13

We especially appreciate those internet listeners I used to bring my laptop in and listen or sort of try to watch but it was sort of distracting a little bit difficult to do watch as the people in our chat room would respond to what was being said during the program and I would imagine there's hopefully a few folks in there.

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They're listening even now and discussing these things and If you'd like to access that chat room, you can do so there's information on our website under chat room

46:45

That's a obvious way of linking to it how you can get into what's called prosopology on our worldwide chat room where we talk and discuss things and You might find that to be edifying to you.

46:58

Let's go to our next phone call here on the dividing line Let's talk with Don all the way across our glorious nation

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Williamsport, Maryland, how you doing Don pretty good. I got um, actually two questions for you

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I was wondering if When you talk about accepting

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Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior if Accepting of accepting his lordship includes accepting the sovereignty of God, too

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Well, what do you mean by the sovereignty of God? In all aspects even in like the

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South even in election Okay, are you asking if a person has to be a five -point

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Calvinist to be saved? Well in a sense Yes, is he going to if he is a

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Christian to me I Think that sometime in his life. It looks like he would bow his knee to that I was just wondering about also like the lordship if that if it was a title and under It would be considered

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Submitting to his lordship Well, I think you need to differentiate between a couple things and that is what the true nature of the gospel is and that is the the fullness of what the gospel reveals concerning who

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Christ is and what Christ has done and what our relationship to him must be and The full understanding and application of that that I think you could make a good case

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None of us ever reaches a full and complete Application of everything that we even know to be true the

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Christian faith And so I think there needs to be a very clear differentiation between saying as I've said many times in public situations that The only gospel is the gospel that exalts

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God's grace that speaks of Christ perfectly saving his own people his elect people and Doing so without the synergistic cooperation of the sinners, but doing so solely by grace that being the true gospel and a recognition that there are individuals who have received

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God's grace and who yet as sinners in this world continue to grow in their grace and knowledge of All the ramifications of what it means to say that I believe that Jesus Christ is

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Lord and Savior I do not believe that Jesus Christ can be Savior without being Lord But obviously every time a

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Christian sins There is in essence a denial of that Lordship on a practical level

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And I think there is a growth in the Christian life of what it means for Christ to be

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Lord For example, I think that it's very important in the New Testament teaching that the

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Lordship of Christ extends to the way we think that is we need to bring every thought captive into unto obedience of Christ and That is a that is an element of preaching and teaching that I have known of Situations where people live their entire lives never heard it preached it never would have been presented to them

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Now if we make that and shall we say in addition to the most fundamental teaching of the gospel

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Then unless you hear someone preach that then you're never going to be saved But I don't think that that's the case.

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I think that It is a blessing of the Holy Spirit of God to be brought constantly into contact with all of the truth of Scripture and Called to grow in that grace and knowledge of the

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Lord Jesus Christ And I think when we start drawing what the absolute minimal lines are we have to stick with the

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New Testament and that is if you don't have the true Jesus Christ and you do not have the Proclamation of justification by grace through faith alone.

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Then you don't have the gospel and you don't have salvation Now a person might say yeah But to be truly consistent with justification by grace through faith alone

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You'd have to believe in election and that faith's a gift and all those other things. I would agree to be consistent

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But inconsistency sadly is a part of the experience of the human life And I know that there are areas and I don't purposefully know what they are

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But I know there are areas in my theology where I am inconsistent and I ask the

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Lord to reveal those things to me I grow and if I If if instant Christian maturity were the absolute

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Necessity then none of us would ever be saved. And so I think we have to be very careful in proclaiming the truth strongly but recognizing that all of us have come to understand great and fundamental truths as a process over time of sanctification and Keeping that minimum to what it is in in the

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New Testament That teaches us that we have to have the right gospel and we have to have the right

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Savior Okay, I just have one more question. Okay Yeah, we just have a about maybe two minutes a little less than that.

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Okay, I was going to ask you Do you think that um when people are presented with the true gospel and the sovereignty of God?

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That he elected us in the faith isn't their own if they keep on crying up free will then they would be Somebody that Paul was talking about in Romans one about suppressing the truth and unrighteousness

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All of us suppress the truth and unrighteousness. That's a description of all mankind prior to regeneration a person who?

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Continually emphasizes the the idea that they themselves are the masters of their salvation

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If if that's something that becomes a shibboleth for them, then I would be very concerned

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If especially they've been faced with the the truth and they've had explained to them their deadness and sin that would seem to be a

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Emphasis that would not have a proper place within the gospel But then again, you got to remember there may be those who because of the person that led them to the

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Lord Use that term they grab on to it and hold on to it and I Hesitate to say that there is going to be a complete process of sanctification in this life because I'm not a

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Nazarene and so, you know, I realize those are interesting questions, but my suggestion to everyone the listening audience when we deal with these things is

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That the best thing for us to do is to spend much more of our energy and our time on exegeting the scriptures and Proclaiming the truth and doing it as clearly and forcefully as we can and then simply trusting that God's gonna take care of the rest

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And when people say well, you know, I just don't necessarily accept what you're saying You know that might indicate

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You know a shallow ground believer there. It might indicate bad soil to use

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Jesus Illustration it might not we tend to be very very impatient and we tend to want things

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Instantaneously and I've met too many people who over decades have come to Have been broken down by God to accept his truth to judge too quickly

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So I'm just one for letting the truth be proclaimed and trusting the Holy Spirit of God to to make the application

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So thanks for calling the day Don. Thank you. God bless. Thank you for being with us today here on the dividing line

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I hope that you have been edified by the series that we are doing Next week some special guests on the program and we hope that you will join us then for the dividing line

54:26

Till then don't forget about that website new articles online right now all sorts of interesting stuff going on in areas regarding Roman Catholicism and Mormonism so get on www .aomin

54:38

.org you'll find it to be very useful share it with a friend and We hope that God will bless that information to you.

54:46

Thanks for being with us today. God bless The dividing line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega ministries

55:14

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55:29

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