October 19, 2023 Show with Marcia Montenegro on “The Testimony of a Former Astrologer” (Part 2)

Opening Banter and Scripture-Based Show Introduction

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 19th day of October, 2023.

And I'm so thrilled to have back on the program a guest that I began interviewing yesterday, and the conversation was so fascinating and was so packed full of information that we ran out of time before we actually were able to cover the main theme of our discussion, which is the testimony of a former astrologer.

I'm talking about Marsha Montenegro, former astrologer who was saved by the grace and mercy of Christ Jesus and founded CANA, which stands for Christian Answers to the New Age. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for part two of our discussion, Marsha Montenegro.

Hi. Hi, Chris. Thanks so much for having me on again.

Well, thank you for taking the time to be on for two days in a row. And by the way, I just wanted to get this clarified. Do you nickname your ministry CANA or K-A-N-A because it's spelled C-A-N-A as far as the acronym is concerned?

I say K-A-N-A, that's how I say it, yeah. I came up with that because that Jesus, his first recorded miracle was performed at the wedding at CANA. Yeah.

Right.

So that was Christian Answers. That's how my acronym. I wanted my acronym to have, you know, to have something to say the new age, but also to be connected to scripture.

Right. And the actual website is ChristianAnswersNewAge .com.

Right. Correct. Correct.

Well, for any of our listeners who want to get more of the details of the journey that my guest Marsha Montenegro went through, which led to her becoming an astrologer herself, please listen to the recording that should be posted fairly soon of yesterday's interview.

That was on Wednesday, October 18th, where we had part one of the testimony of a former astrologer. And today we are entering into part two, and we don't want to repeat too much of that information because we want to venture into uncovered territory and want to give you some new information that we had not yet already discussed.

Astrology, Divination, and the Occult

So let's at least start right now, Marsha, with a working definition of astrology. And I know some people mistakenly make astrology and astronomy synonyms, but they're not, obviously. So why don't you tell our listeners about astrology?

Okay, sure. And let me say something about astronomy, because actually, that seems to be a very common mistake I have run into quite often. So I do want to say astronomy is a study of space and heavenly bodies, and it's done, you know, by looking at data from outer space and researching that.

So it's not based on a spiritual belief system. It's like based on actual observation and coming to conclusions. Astrology uses some of the same data in order to make calculations, but what astrology does is give an interpretation to the planets, the zodiac signs and the position of the planets at certain times.

So the astrologer is seeing a meaning behind these things, which, of course, the astronomer does not see a meaning. So that's the difference. And when you see a meaning, when you give a meaning to something where there is no obvious meaning, you're reading a hidden meaning into something that is divination.

So astrology is a form of divination.

And so, in other words, all people who would call themselves astrologers would believe in divination, and perhaps you could even define that more clearly.

Okay, yes. Let me do that. Divination is one of the three components of the occult, which are sorcery, spirit contact and divination. Those are the three areas of the occult. Things can overlap. So something can be divination and spirit contact or sorcery and spirit contact.

But those are the three areas. And divination, which is sometimes called fortune telling, which I don't think is really a very good word, is actually getting information beyond the natural, either by reading hidden meanings into creation or into numbers, into shapes, into pictures, or it is getting information supernaturally that you believe is going to inform you about the past, present or future.

So a psychic is doing divination. A psychic who, they have different views on what they think, where they think they're getting the information, but they're not getting it from natural sources or in the natural manner.

You know, you're not using your five senses, you know, reading about it or something like that. It's coming supernaturally. So when you're doing that kind of thing to get information or reading a hidden meaning in something, you're doing divination.

Now when you were a practicing astrologer, what else did you do other than inform people about what they can expect in their futures because of their zodiac sign? Did you do palm reading? Did you do tea leave reading?

Did you do seances? And many of these other things that you will even see on signs, on people's, either their homes where they practice these things or their storefronts or what have you. There are a number of them in the area where I live, where you drive around and you'll see these signs out front that have astrologer, have palm reading, have all kinds of things like that on the signs.

Is that like a jack of all trades kind of a thing or are there differences amongst astrologers who may be more narrow in their practices, etc.?

Okay, I'm really glad you asked about that because everything you just described, the storefront thing, is a completely different category. It is not what I did. What you described are the con artists, the scam artists.

And those are probably, you know, that fortune tellers, that would probably apply to them because that tends to be a very derogatory term among new agers who do things like astrology and tarot card reading.

And so you could say with confidence that all of them are con honors. Now, let's make our listeners understand what we're saying here. We believe all of this is from the pit of hell. Yeah, we believe it's all satanic, but there are some people who are actually involved in satanic, occultic, supernatural practices and experiences that are real.

But just because something is real does not mean that it is good. Like, for instance, we have biblical evidence that the Witch of Endor may have actually brought Samuel to the presence of Saul in the Old Testament.

It never says that it was a fake apparition or anything, but that doesn't mean it was a good thing. It was something that was condemned of God. In fact, punishable by death in the Old Covenant. So we're not saying, just because we're saying some of these things are real, we're not saying that they're good.

But anyway, I've interrupted you.

I think that God brought Saul up and the medium or the witch was surprised. I don't think she expected to see Samuel. I think what she saw was not what she usually saw, but I think she probably did bring spirits who were fallen angels, you know, maybe pretending to be the dead.

That's what I think mediums do today. But yeah, there are people who are seriously into this. It's usually part of their spiritual belief system, like it was for me and all my friends and all the astrologers, tarot card readers, psychics, mediums, et cetera, that I knew.

Then there are the other classification, and I don't I'm not wanting to say con artists in a derogatory way like, is there any other way? Well, you know, I don't want to sound like I'm I'm not trying to say that what I did was like superior or that the people who do it seriously are somehow superior to the con artists.

They're they're both they're both wrong. You know, both categories are wrong in a way. What the serious people do, like what I did is worse because we're actually into it. The con artists who do it usually don't really know that much about it, but they're good at reading people and conning them.

And that just happens to be the way they con them. You know, there are different kinds of cons and you can do money schemes and all kinds of cons. And we know on the Internet that's very pervasive. We know the Nigerian emails and all that stuff that seems to be around a lot.

So there are different ways to con people. And one way you can con them is to convince them you have this information on them. Just give me twenty five dollars and for 15 minutes I'm going to tell you about your life right now.

And people who also call. There are people who do this by phone, too.

Yes. Yes. Exactly. Like the psychic hotline. Now, some of the people who do that may actually know enough that part of what they're doing is authentic. So I don't rule that out. I think some of them may actually know some stuff and they're actually doing it.

But I happen to know that a large number of these people who do it are the Roma people, which we usually call gypsies. But that's a very derogatory term. My sister was a missionary to the Roma people for a really long time.

So I'm real sensitive to this. And she told me that, like I even know around here, there's one family that owns several psychic places and it's run by one family and they're Roma people. And they do this as their way to get money from the.

There's a word they use. I think it's the goal. You know, that's the Jewish word. There's a word like that where Jews use for non-Jews. There's a word the gypsies use for non-gypsies.

I've heard them say that, and I don't remember what it is either.

I don't remember it either, but that's their way to make the money off of the non-gypsies. My sister told me they a lot of them don't believe it. However, they do have their own superstitions and may actually have a cult views about things.

So I'm not saying they're completely separate from it. But what they're doing when they're reading poems and and, you know, looking into a crystal ball or something is all kind of a con game. And so that category is totally distinct, different kinds of people.

And the two the two categories never cross paths. I mean, they're completely separate.

So are you saying that the Roma people predominantly are when they are practicing these things are charlatans or are knowing charlatans? They're not.

Yes.

OK.

My sister told me they do not do it on each other. They only do it on the non-gypsies. Now that's according to my sister. So I'm going by her authority. But I you know, they don't do it on each other.

So this is like a business for them. This is a business. And of course, not all of them do that. I'm not trying to you know, we know not all Roma people are like that, but that a lot of them do it. Now, of course, there are people who are not Roma who also do it, who are just playing con artists.

And you're always reading these newspaper stories, you know, psychic arrested. You know, she got, you know, eighty thousand dollars from this this woman who gave her all her savings. And often it's you know, you have to give me your money because there's a curse on you and I can remove the curse if you give me your jewelry and I'll melt it and remove the curse and all that kind of stuff.

So that's a totally distinct, separate category. So what I'm talking about is people in the new age and the occult who do astrology or palm reading or numerology or tarot cards very seriously. Now, some of them do more than one.

Like there might be somebody who does astrology and tarot cards or they might do tarot cards and numerology. I only did astrology. I had I took classes yesterday when we we left off. I was I had just gotten to the part where I said I took or I took classes in astrology and psychic development and I took other classes like numerology.

I took palm reading. I took past life regression and a few other things. I didn't take tarot. I don't think they had a tarot card class, but someone gave me tarot cards and I had a book and I taught it to myself.

But I never did a reading on anybody with it. I just did readings on myself, which actually you're not supposed to do, but I did. I'm not a lot of them. I was much more into astrology. So everything else paled in comparison to me, you know, tarot cards, numerology, all of that stuff seemed very superficial because it didn't have the complexity of astrology and the complexity and the difficulty of astrology is what fascinated me and what kept me with it.

What you know, it kept me staying in it because you can never finish learning like you. You can just do it for years and you never know everything that there is to know about astrology. So that was one thing that really kept me in it.

And I found it so to be so accurate that, you know, why would I want to try something else? So I didn't I didn't bother to spend time on the other areas, even though I knew about them and I could do, you know, numerology.

I did a little bit of numerology on some people for fun, but where you take their name and birthdate and you convert it into these numbers and then it means something. But I still found that very superficial.

And so I was an astrologer, I didn't read palms, you know, I didn't I have a lot of people who ask me when I tell them I was an astrologer and they'll say, oh, you know, they'll put their palm out and say, oh, read my palm, you know, and I'm like, no, that's not what I did.

And of course, I wouldn't do that anyway. So it's good for for Christians to know that there's this category of the fortune teller con artist type. And then there's a serious and a serious category. People may advertise in publications and they may have business cards like I did, but they're not going to have a sign on their on their home and they're not going to have a storefront.

Now, they might have a business, you know, legitimate business they're running, but it's not going to be what we call the storefront type things. You know, Madame Zora reads your future, that kind of thing.

And of course, using the term legitimate for it is somewhat debatable.

Yeah, yeah, it is. And what I'm trying to say is it's not set up to con people. Right. I never you believed what you were doing. I totally, totally believe that.

In fact, in one sense, it was real, but it was evil.

Right. Exactly.

Exactly. Now, what did you what did you when somebody looked up your name or found it by chance in a magazine and newspaper, word of mouth, they contacted you? What exactly happened in your meetings with these people?

Did you go to them? Did they go to you? And what what exactly happened?

OK, initially. I mostly went to people's homes a few times, I went to their workplaces and we did it on their lunch hour. I and a few times if it was during the day when my son was at school and my husband was at work, they they would come to my place actually quite a few times.

It was kind of a 50 50. So if they could come during the day, they would come to where I lived. If they couldn't come during the day and it was in the evening, I would go to where they lived. Other than a few times I went to their workplaces during lunch because they couldn't get away long enough to come to my place.

So it was a mixture. And oh, and the other place I did it was at that place where I was the resident astrologer that I mentioned yesterday. If they got if somebody came to them and said or called them and said, I want an astrology chart done, they would call me and then I would call the person we would arrange to meet there.

It was called the Foundation of Truth. I know you're going to love that name was the name of it, the foundation. That's where I took my first astrology classes, psychic development, numerology, palm reading.

And it was run mainly there was a board of people who ran that organization. They were mostly all psychics and mediums. Some of them were my teachers. And so they they rented a building. The building was owned by the Daughters of the American Revolution, and they rented the building to the Foundation of Truth.

The Foundation of Truth did not own that building. And we had all our classes and our meetings and the Daughters of American Revolution building, which had all these paintings of these historical people in the revolution.

It was very bizarre. It was such a bizarre setting for what was going on, you know. And so I would go there to that building, which was a very nice building, and I would do a reading with the person. And what the way I did this was I would get the data ahead of time from the person.

I would have the chart done. There was a place at the time you could send off for it. This is before people had computers and you could calculate it yourself because I had to learn how to do that for the test.

But it's very time consuming. It takes, you know, it takes a fair amount of time to do that. And you don't want to make a mistake. So there was a place in California where I could send the data and two dollars and they would send me a chart like three or four days later.

So that's how I got the chart. Then I would have arranged a time with the client and then we would get together, whether at my place or their place or another place. And I would look at the chart. I would have already looked at it before they came.

I would have just kind of looked at it to see what jumped out at me to look at Maine, anything that seemed interesting or important in the chart, because there are certain places you look for that. And I might have when I was first doing this, I spent more time looking at it before I saw the person because I was, you know, I was more nervous about it.

But once I had been doing it for a while and I could I could just look at a chart and start reading it really without any preparation at all. But I usually did look at it before I saw the person and then they would sit there and I would record it and we would start, you know, I would start talking.

So that's how I did it. Most of these people were people I did not know or I knew very slightly. I didn't know them well. I actually did not want to do charts for people I knew well, because I felt that it would it would bias me, would I would know things about them and I would that would interfere with me just reading the chart.

So I actually didn't want to do charts for people I knew. Well, I did do for a very few, but usually I did not do that. So mostly I know these people.

So these charts, they are specifically regarding the birth date of the individual who you are doing for whom you are doing a reading and the alignment of planets and stars and how that's supposed to be all connected.

Is that what I'm hearing from you?

Yeah, it's a birth date and birthplace. The place is very important because if you're born at, you know, three or four p .m. in Los Angeles and somebody else is born at the same time on the East Coast, which would be, you know, I guess six or four p .m. because it would be three.

But that's still the same time. The charts are going to be very different because of the location, because what you're looking at is the where the planets are in a fixed zodiac belt, a fixed zodiac belt, which is an important point because actually the zodiac has shifted.

But most astrologers use the fixed zodiac belt in relation to the place the person was born and the time they were born. And just a few minutes can shift it. So that it's very important to have as precise a birth time as possible.

And most people had their birth time. It was on their birth certificate or something or somebody in the family knew. Sometimes they didn't know. And in that case, the astrologer can do something which which is a way to find out the time or the approximate time by asking about major things in their life.

It's very common. I'm not going to get into it because it's very technical, but there's a way to do that. I didn't like doing it because it's mathematical and it's kind of difficult. I was terrible at math, by the way.

It was my worst subject. It's a wonder I passed any any of my math courses at all. It's just a wonder because I cannot do math. But I had to learn it to to pass the astrology exam and I had to use it in my practice.

So there's a way where you can figure approximate time for a person and you just go with that. Now, in most cases, people knew.

Now, other than the information that you've given, that many people look in their local newspaper for an astrology section and on and so on and what their astrological sign is, other than this stuff that almost seems like bad math or fake math.

Now, it's real math. The math is real.

OK, well, what I mean by that is you're taking an equation involving information and coming to a conclusion that can be completely false. But yeah, but but what I'm what I'm trying to get to, though, is where does the actual supernatural come in where you're getting information from spirit guides or anything else that would be involving perhaps necromancy and, you know, things that are condemned as crimes punishable by death in the covenant that are involved in sorcery?

What is going on in these meetings that involve those things?

Oh, well, there's well, there's no contact with the dead. That's not part of astrology. But well, first of all, you're doing divination and when you're doing divination, you're opening you're opening yourself up to spirit guides.

I mean, I had you know, I already had my spirit guide from that guided visualization that we talked about yesterday. But I had other spirit guides that I thought were guiding me through the chart. So already, I believe all serious astrologers, anybody, they don't even have to be an astrologer, just being in the new age.

If you're in the new age for a while, you'll you'll have spirit guides. If you're in the occult, you'll have spirit guides. And these spirit guides are talked about openly in that community of people.

There are everybody's aware of it. And, you know, one of my psychic development teachers even went around the room and told us and said she looked at each of us and then she told us who our spirit guides and who she saw around us as our spirit guides.

So right away, as soon as you do an occult practice, seriously, you have opened the door to the supernatural because you've opened the door to guidance from fallen angels. Then you're you're doing divination, which is condemned by God very heavily in several passages, even in the New Testament.

In Acts 16, you have the girl, the slave girl that Paul encounters, who is it says possess or she has the spirit of the python, which was connected to divination. Now, I also I always I point to that to show a New Testament example, but I also try to explain to people this does not mean everyone doesn't mean that people who do this are possessed.

I think the the point of that passage, well, there's probably several points, but one of the points of that passage was to show that at the root of divination, because it said she had the spirit of divination, which which literally was the spirit of the python.

And so I think what God was showing us is that at the root of divination is is is demons, is Satan. In other words, it's demonic to do this kind of thing. So, you know, I don't think I was ever possessed and I don't think any of my friends were possessed.

And I don't think that's a necessity to do these kind of things. You just have to be under the influence and open to the guidance of the spirit guides. So part of it is that's a big part of it that makes it the supernatural and that makes it fall into the category of the occult and the practices forbidden by God.

So you have divination going on now. You have spirit contact because of the spirit guides. But astrology itself is not technically something it's you're not trying to have spirit contact. You're not doing something to contact a spirit, but it just happens automatically.

And the other thing that happens that's very important to know is that I would usually automatically go into an altered state of consciousness while I was doing the chart reading. Now, this is the same same state of consciousness that you go into when you do Eastern forms of meditation, which are now very popular in this country.

And sometimes they're called stress relaxation there. And they're actually based on the process of doing Eastern meditation, which, of course, I had done because I had, you know, learned the Tibetan Buddhist meditation.

And then I learned Zen Buddhist meditation. And prior to that, I had done other kinds of meditations I learned about that were I don't know what you'd want to call them, just new age or occult forms of meditation.

There are many, many ways to do these meditations, but all of them will put most people into an altered state of consciousness. And when you're in that state, your mind is open to any information or influence that wants to come in and you are suggestible.

Your mind's very suggestible to things. So it's really it's basically a light hypnotic trance state. And when I say trance, I don't mean you don't know what's going on. So it's probably not a good word.

It's a light hypnotic state. And you're completely aware of your surroundings and you're talking to the person. And, you know, I'm looking at the chart and analyzing. But I'm in this altered state where I am open to the guidance.

So I think that some of the information I got, not not all of it, but some of it was from my spirit guides most of the time. Others, other information was just me analyzing the chart based on the principles of astrology.

I mean, in fact, let's let's pick up where you left off because we have to go to our first commercial break. OK, but but let me just say one thing that I find I've always found fascinating about the the slave girl who was the medium.

She kept repeating something that was true. She kept saying, these men are bond servants of the most high God who are proclaiming to you a way of salvation. Now, the incorrect thing there was a way of salvation, not the.

But Paul commanded her in the name of Jesus Christ, commanded the spirit to come out of her. It was he was shutting her up, even though she was saying something that was true. Right. But I'm sorry. Well, let's go to the let's go let's go to the first break and you could say what you wanted to say then.

OK, so if anybody wants to ask their own question, send it immediately. Chris arms in a Gmail dot com. Chris arms in a Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back.

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