Bethel Church and Miracles, Rosaria Butterfield, Gender Pronouns, and the Post-Obergefell World

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00:14

the race welcome to the dividing line last dividing line not of the year but at least on the average as the one and yeah we'll sneak one or two in toward the end of the year

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I think we'll be back huh? uh...

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we'd have to do it on friday because I'm gone the rest of the time so we'll see I don't know we'll see but we've got one or two days the next week before the the new year before it's twenty twenty uh...

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the non two hundredth anniversary of the first fish so we're gonna have to call that I guess

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I don't know the hundredth anniversary of the non first fish yes uh... yeah well look what we need twenty twenty four is the two hundredth anniversary of the great paul myra revival so that's what we need to be communicating to people hi is this on?

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nevermind uh... when paul wrote to the church of philippi second chapter after that incredible section on the what we call the carmen christi the hymn to christ is to god uh...

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he wrote these words but i thought it necessary to send to you epaphroditus my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier who is also your messenger uh...

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that is your uh... literally it's your apostle your apostolon and minister uh...

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to my need because he was longing for you all and was distressed because you had heard that he was sick for indeed he was sick to the point of death but god had mercy on him and not on him only but also on me so that i would not have sorrow upon sorrow uh...

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therefore i have sent him all the more eagerly so that when you see him again you may rejoice and i be may be less concerned about you receive him then in the lord with all joy and hold men like him in high regard because he came close to death for the work of christ risking his life to complete what was deficient in your service to me so evidently the church at philippi sent epaphroditus to bring a gift from the church in support of the apostles ministry and so he was a sent one an apostolos a sent one who ministered to paul's needs and evidently on the trip or while he was with paul somewhere along those lines uh...

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he became sick unto death and that word had somehow traveled back to philippi and so the people there were were greatly concerned as well and so when paul says he indeed was sick to the point of death but god had mercy on him and not on him only but also on me so that i would not have sorrow upon sorrow it is very clear what we don't have here is i as an apostle of jesus christ simply walked into his room and raised him up to health i used my gift of healing this is a man who had raised a dead person okay the boy falls out of the window paul goes down raises him to life so what's wrong paul getting a little rusty not doing your devotions instead very clearly paul recognizes that his healing was not a sudden act of a gift that paul possessed as an apostle but was god's mercy upon epaphroditus upon himself so they would not have sorrow upon sorrow what do we do with this kind of revelation from god what do we do with the fact that in second timothy uh...

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that same section that we've looked at last time paul talks about leaving trophimus at myletus sick why didn't you heal him paul and i think what we see is that especially when it comes to the exercise of miraculous power by individuals in scripture there is a pattern and the pattern is the establishment of divine revelation i'm not talking about the resurrection of jesus though that certainly is the beginning of all the divine revelation of the testament that is primarily satirological but when prophets did these things this established their authority as prophets and it was not the norm it was the unusual they wouldn't be miracles if it was the norm it was the unusual but when it is an individual who look at paul's situation he's teaching the infant church who knows what he was preaching on that that night but it's quite an interruption when someone falls out a window and dies on the street outside so he's teaching divine truth that even the jews in the uh...

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audience would have been hearing new insights new understandings and in front of all these people paul raises him up to life so why not just heal trophimus why not just heal epaphroditus because it would not have the same effect in establishing apostolic authority these men were already believers they're involved in apostolic ministry so it's not some public thing that says here is divine evidence that revelations taking place amongst you that's why i have argued that as you look at the apostolic record especially in acts you have a diminishment of that kind of thing now it's interesting what's one of the what's one of the last miracles toward the end of the book of acts the snake that bites that bites paul where is he he's in a new place new message same concept why start off a program right before christmas with this well because i said i would try at least briefly to offer some comments there are a lot of people offering comments today uh...

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doctor muller offered comments this morning on the briefing he felt it was necessary to address this there are a number of videos and articles now showing up so i'm not trying to reinvent the wheel and go back over these things but secular media is picking up on what is going on at Bethel church in redding california and i have not seen anything in any of the articles i've read i have not invested a huge amount of time i've seen some videos i've heard some songs uh...

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one on instagram uh... saying you know come out of the grave and and things like that i've seen you know people running around i've seen the stuff going on there at the church if you're not aware of this one of the women in some type of musical leadership at the

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Bethel church bill johnson's church two -year -old daughter died i've not seen anything in what i've read that there was any i haven't seen a cause of death but i also haven't seen anything to where authorities are looking into this or anything like that you know as a sudden infant death syndrome i i don't know she passed away and from all the pictures that have been posted just an adorable little two -year -old girl and uh...

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any of us who are parents or grandparents or anything else you just can't imagine the level of devastation and pain and hurt that comes with such a situation but what this woman decided to do was to approach the leaders of the church and to ask for prayer and to gather the church to raise her back to life and i think today's day six or seven something like that i i not sure but it's been a number of days now of pretty much continuous we're not talking about quiet prayer we're talking what would be identified as charismatic pentecostal uh...

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tongue -speaking dancing singing type of of stuff going on at the church there and i i heard about after you know the first day or two it you know news started coming out but you're sort of like is this happening right now it is this something happened recently and now only the story's got don't know it's ongoing and media is picking up on it and uh...

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so i said yesterday that i would want to try to offer just a couple of comments on this particular issue it obviously is a tragedy when any two -year -old dies but this is not the first two -year -old who is died who's been born to christian parents and in fact having some understanding of church history is helpful here uh...

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in major portions of world history and european history as a whole specifically a woman would have to have ten live births to get one child through to maturity in many places you you had a ninety percent mortality rate there there was no there is no understanding of antibiotics or germ theory or anything like that and of course having children is extremely dangerous to the woman there's just so many uh...

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complications that can take place in that situation that that it was a that giving birth was a major uh...

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contributor to the the death rate of women wars for men giving birth for women so we live in a blast age in a blast age when you think of most of the uh...

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reformers uh... both luther and calvin had lost children in infancy and both were deeply impacted by that but neither luther nor calvin uh...

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called the church together to try to raise their children from the grave and historically both in the new testament as well as down through church history this has not been something the christians have done so why theology matters theology matters and bill johnson believes that certain divine truths have been lost now i have mentioned in times past i took the time forget how many years ago was now about three years ago to purchase a number of bill johnson books on audio and to listen to them and to especially focus upon his christology and i found some serious errors both in a form of canonic theology as well as in sort of a almost a recapitulation style perspective that he has in regards to the role of the spirit in us and our relationship to jesus and so there is a sense in which we are jesus's outside of what i think is the biblical understanding of living out the ministry of christ being developed by the holy spirit of god things like that and so the church teaches that the miraculous that that we are to live as jesus lived so as the messiah is establishing his credentials as the messiah we're supposed to doing the same thing now he this misses the reality of the death, burial, and resurrection of jesus he has been enthroned on high he has established his his credentials but on earth he did miraculous deeds in fulfillment of prophetic scripture that then was part of the he himself saying to his disciples how can you be so hard of heart the scripture said the messiah would do this this this and this is what the messiah does there's all this fulfilled prophecy there is no fulfilled prophecy about christians behaving this way in fact we just looked at descriptive teaching that the apostles did not expect to utilize their gifts in such a fashion as to simply extend human life indefinitely in case you've not thought about it lazarus died again i mean there's a sense in which you can feel sorry for lazarus i mean his name is of course well well honored amongst believers for having been raised from the dead by jesus but the dude died twice he experienced the physical reality of death twice and there's no evidence that mary and martha called the church together let's go for a second run didn't do it didn't do it he died twice so why was he resurrected because it pointed to jesus as the source of all as the messiah the strange false theology of bill johnson and bethel church has created and we've we've read about this stuff happening to where these kids go out these young people go out on college campuses and they're trying to lengthen people's legs in and perform miracles because performing miracles is the way that you do evangelism i'm almost a little bit surprised it's the first time this has happened uh...

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in a sense this mother is just being consistent with what she has been taught by her leadership but this is not what christians expect there will be a resurrection and this does not mean that there is not the miraculous in this life just told you last time we were together about the miraculous healing of a baby in the womb but what's the difference the difference is these folks believe that this is to be normative and that it can be something that you expect from god rather than in obedience saying lord your will be done yours on earth as it is in heaven not mine and whatever that means from me i'm willing to serve you and so if the baby is born with all the problems that were expected then you serve christ and honor him by taking care of that with all the difficulties that that means and there are a lot of difficulties some of which i didn't even realize until and if god chooses to step in and miraculously change that reality that's up to god i don't question his ability to do that and i don't question god's ability to raise a child from the dead but for what purpose you see once you've established the idea that we think this is normative we think this is the way it should be god's gonna do this to just continue human life and so we're going to get together and demand this of god we're gonna sing songs and we're gonna fast and we're gonna pray and we're gonna make this miracle happen christians have just never done that and i think part of it's because the church was born into persecution when you have martyrs dying right and left and especially when they're like nero tied to stakes and burnt to a crisp the christians didn't sneak in at night and try to raise them from the dead they got their bodies and they buried them because they knew there was a resurrection and there will be a resurrection but this idea of dragging that into the part of the the background in jesus' discussion after when he comes to raise lazarus is that the pharisees understand there's going to be a resurrection they're not like the sadducees it's down there it's it's at the end of time so the idea that there could be a resurrection before then doesn't make any sense to them they don't have the categories for it they don't see that this supernatural event is meant to say something about someone they are living at the very crossroads of time everything before has been looking forward this time period everything after it's going to look back to it they don't realize that they will eventually especially when the spirit comes and then they can see the fulfilled scripture and prophecies and things like that but christians recognize the reality of death and we pray for the healing of our loved ones according to the will of god and i remember i think i've mentioned before that back in high school they played around with the lines of where people went to school back then and i ended up getting bussed i don't know how far it was all the way down to what's called independence high school it was a long ways from where i lived independence is south of glendale i lived north of bell it was a long ways so as soon as i could drive i started driving the brown bomb you even remember the brown bomb because page had it for a while right didn't we eventually take it out in the desert and shoot it because it wouldn't die any other way i mean i mean it's just yeah boom that would be about the only way to do it 1972 buick lesaber and it was all beat up but it had a v8 350 in it that just refused to stop no it was not no it was not i know my car dude you're talking about the green thunderbird the green thunderbird was a 455 that thing was could run a tank um but the buick lesaber was a v8 350 and um i drove that as soon as as soon as i could start driving my sophomore year that's what i did i couldn't afford to like even have a uh stereo in it so i had a literally a portable cassette tape player and that's where i'd listen to christian music and stuff like that but i started listening to some of the local christian stations and one of them had kenneth copeland on no no who papa hagan right hagan kenneth hagan had papa hagan on um while i would be driving to school and so once in a while i'd listen i mean i knew this guy was out to lunch i was only at the time what 16 but i could tell as a 16 year old this guy was out lunch but i remember one day very clearly him preaching about how if you ever say if it be your will you are destroying the prayer of faith because you have to believe it is always god's will and this is part and parcel of the most charismatic understanding of this issue is it is always god's will to heal so i'm not sure what paul was worried about with either epaphroditus or or anybody else um but that's the idea and the problem is it's absolutely central to having a proper understanding of divine healing and the supernatural in the christian life to recognize that when you say according to the will of god you're not just going well i don't know i just i you know what what when jesus says speak this mountain it'll be taken up and cast in the sea whatsoever you shall ask you'll receive but there's this little thing about the will of god and what you need to understand is when you are yourself completely committed to doing the will of god then he changes you you don't change him this is this is the this is the this is where the man -centeredness of arminianism connects with charismaticism to create the mess of bethel that we're seeing today what do i mean you take a man -centered view of god's nature god's knowledge his relationship to man you import that into this area of believing you will receive and speak to this mountain and all of a sudden you have man in sovereign control of the power of god and it creates a mess if you have a proper biblical view of the sovereignty of god and the god -centeredness of the biblical narrative then when you hear jesus saying whatever you say speak to this mountain he's speaking to people who are submitted to the will of god so they have been changed to where their desires now mirror god's will and god will accomplish whatever he wants so it's not where we come up we all of a sudden now have this power to cast mountains into the sea but god has that power and if it is his will to accomplish something absolutely spectacular he will and in when my will is in line with his will then the two mesh together this explains how the ten boom sisters can experience forgiveness for the guards that guarded them at ravensbrook this is how uh betsy could have joy amongst the fleas in the ravensbrook because she discovered that they could have their bible studies because the guards wouldn't come in because they didn't want to get the fleas so in the midst of that she is ministering jesus to people and therefore can have joy you see her will had been changed so you have a god -centeredness rather than a man -centeredness and i and i know the ten booms are not perfectly reformed and all that that's not the point they saw the importance of this they recognize the importance of this and here we have let's just be honest the the gospel taking a getting a black eye in the eyes the world even though even a lot of people in the world are like you know these are the only people we've ever encountered that are like this most people at least in whose lives the spirit of god is working recognize that christians christians are the ones who handle death differently than anybody else does and should handle issues of life different than anybody else does too and so no one i i certainly can't deny the the presence of the supernatural we've seen it seen it recently i've seen it in the past but the difference is i didn't think that i had even the the right to demand this of god or to even consider it to be something that would be the normative it has to be in the context god if you would be glorified not not because of my pain or my loss but that you would be glorified that's the only real basis for asking for for anything from god in that way and the the miraculous is the normative normative normative normative drumbeat i don't know how many it has already created but five ten fifteen years from now there will be books being written by former bethel redding people about their atheism and where it came from and how they discovered that it was all just pure emotion and it never did anything because if you don't have the theology um that's the lays that lays the foundation you're not gonna have anything at all nothing at all so god had mercy on epaphroditus and paul but he he did so um for god's glory and you know we're to hold him in high regard because he came close to death the work of christ risking his life to complete what was deficient in your service to me that's wonderful but that's not why god wrote raised him he could have done all of that and still died and god would have been just as just and righteous and loving as ever so without an understanding of the sovereignty of god you end up with what we're seeing in in bethel how is this going to end how do you call a halt to this what's what's the devastation going to be for those people that are literally running around the room right now calling on god to raise this little child back to life i don't know i don't know what the authority is and like i said i've seen nothing about any questions about the death just that it happened and there you go there you go um at the end of of the last program on wednesday i was uh literally before i blogged because i i write up a quick description of the program then we we post it and you know before i blogged i was directed to an article that had been posted that included a graphic of sam alberry and the fellow from revoice and jd greer and rosario butterfield and myself with the following words might every last one of you who choose to accommodate this sinfulness either repent of your wicked capitulation or might you drown in the wine press of the fury of the wrath of god revelation 1419 might you halt your evil and lying tongue immediately or might god smoke you like incense crafted from the molten sulfur sulfur of sodom psalm 11 6 might you repent of lying with the lisp of satan's forked tongue or might you melt like a wax figurine beneath the blast furnace of hell an open letter to christians using preferred pronouns now most people remember that when jd greer just a few weeks ago posted the blog article about pronoun hospitality that on this program we had specifically given a response indicating that for a christian this is not a possible thing to do because god is the creator and he is the definer of all things and we approached it from a christian world view so you might have been a little bit surprised so i wrote a response and this is this is what it's what it said a few hours ago i spent a very enjoyable time on the phone with dr rosario butterfield we discussed some comments she made about the post of bergefell world and once again i was thankful for her clear insights and thoughtfulness on the topic one of the issues that came up was the abuse of language in our day she had contacted me on her own about the language in our day about two months ago when i criticized jd greer's pronoun hospitality position by the way he was just borrowing that from somebody else but anyway agreeing with me that this is not a direction we can possibly go while living in god's created world in other words both dr butterfield and i have clearly and openly opposed the abuse of language that's inherent and capitulated the culture on the matter of preferred pronouns we have been clear on this so i am not surprised given the insanity being displayed by jd hall of late that this was just posted because it was posted at pulp and pen it is of course a lie it is not a matter of misunderstanding it's not a matter of not knowing the truth and when i posted this and you can read the rest of it it was december 18th at 3 10 p .m