Former Pro-Golfer

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

John 18 and the Divine Name in the Arrest of Jesus

And good afternoon, welcome to the dividing line, let me quote here. The traditional Christian interpretation of this multitude falling to the ground has been upon hearing Jesus words I am he Greek ego.

I me this is John chapter 18 verses 5. And following a supernatural force Exuded from Jesus knocking them to the ground. Some commentators have linked these words of Jesus of Jesus with Exodus 314. Just as they have with those thrice repeated in John 8.

For example, Ari Brown asserts regarding this text the Ohanian tradition I am serves virtually as a divine name with the power to cast them into the ground John 18 5. Such an interpretation is both unnecessary and unwarranted.

Especially if our interpretation of the thrice repeated I am and John 8 is correct. Rather the multitude was surprised when Jesus courageously went forth to meet his enemies. Jh. Bernard puts it. Well the men who came to make the arrest some of them some of whom at least did not previously know Jesus even by sight.

Were so overcome by his moral ascendancy that they recoiled in fear. Indeed this episode alludes David's words in Psalm 27 to when evil doers come upon me to devour my flesh my adversaries and my enemies.

They stumbled and fell. Accordingly those in the foreground started by Jesus bold response quickly drew back as they did they may have bumped into others behind them. Causing many to stumble and fall perhaps.

It was like the three stooges. Whether God resorts the use of supernatural power. He still caused his enemies to appear as stooges. Well those are the words of the man we now know as Kermit czar Lee retired professional golfer.

Who has now announced the whole reason that he moved up the revelation of his identity? Was because he has designed a new form of a book. Yes, why did I end the contest almost two years prior to my announcement that it would end on September 29th 2011 the birthday of Both me and Michael Cervantes.

It's because I have reinvented the book. Not his book books in general. No joke it is now patent-pending and has a trademark triangle book because it has a built-in book stand. That makes a triangle formation.

In about two weeks my book the restitution of Jesus Christ will be available in this format on this website for this and other reasons. It was becoming reluctantly clear to me that in order to proceed with my plans for this invention I would have to divulge my anonymity as the author of this book.

That's not divulging your anonymity. You're divulging your identity not divulging your anonymity. I just thought would clear up that little linguistic problem. So my plans are to try to license this book invention to publishers tomorrow I leave for New Orleans to attend the annual meeting of SPL.

I've been a member of this organization for the past 10 years. Yeah, well every other heretic on the planet is to let me I'll begin showing my triangle book invention to publishers there. I don't know if it will ever impact the trade book market.

But we think it will do so with certain hardback niche markets that benefit from the standalone functions such as manuals gift books cookbooks and perhaps textbooks and Books containing heresy evidently more information about will be available soon on my new website triangle book calm.

So it was all promotion self-promotion, of course in the process well. If you want to find out if a book is even semi Serious in dealing with the subject the deity of Christ go to John 18. That's the one I've found to be the best place to go.

Because folks think about it even Bart Ehrman knows That the Gospel of John teaches the deity of Christ even Bart Ehrman knows that. Now he says Matthew Mark and Luke don't but John does and that's contradiction.

And you know he cuts the New Testament apart, but even Bart Ehrman Coming from as far out in left field as he does can see yeah, come on people Gospel John it's clearly teaching the deity of Christ and So you look at?

What Kermit czar Lee golf professional Says on this subject and you you remembered hearing about old Kermit didn't you rich? Yeah, you heard about him on on the pro tour didn't you?

On pages. Yes, it seems to be a long long time ago, but I somehow remember. You know news broadcasts You know sports stuff and the name Kermit czar Lee kind of stands out you know it does stand up Jack Nicklaus and You know go through all the different and then Carl Palmer Kermit czar Lee.

It does. I'm not a golf fan. Sorry to those of you who are so don't confuse it.

I'm not okay. I just happen to you know they're going through the sports, and you know you have to listen to that too, okay?

I it never never even crossed my mind. I Know and it didn't. I would have absolutely positively no earthly idea of who anybody in golf was but be that as it may. We look at Kermit czar Lee's book and remember.

I he was very upset that I said this was spiral bound. It's some other kind of binding. It's a metal thing see, but you notice. It's Sideways you can't you finding stuff in this next to impossible it's it's two pages per page on eight and a half by 11 bound together with a spiral thingy and he got upset because I Didn't use the exact terminology that I alleged.

I supposed to use anyways Pages 373 374 as I said when I first got this book and Obviously this was a ploy to sell books. Which I'm sure he did I'm sure he's moved ten times more books than he ever would have otherwise in the process.

But when I first started looking at this I was struck that this it almost seemed to me like he had dug up Nelson Hurley stuff in the 1970s because if you've if you've done anything in this field for any period of time at all you've been there done that got the t-shirt and the spiral bound books and So one of one of the things that I've always That I have found to be very useful go to John 18, how do they deal with John 18 5 through 6.

Because the text is in fact very very clear. And you have to you have to tear the gospel of John apart the soldiers are coming to arrest Jesus and In verse 4 so Jesus knowing all things that were coming upon him went forth and said to them whom do you seek.

I Guess that went forth. All it is is exhale then he went out from where he was and Said to them who are you seeking? Oh, wow. That's a powerful thing. Sorry, they answered him Jesus the Nazarene. He said to them ego, I me and Judas also is betraying him was standing with them.

So when he said to them ego, I mean They drew back and fell to the ground now. If you allow John to be John if you follow I go. I me through John 8 John 13 and I was just looking at this beforehand. Let me I'm.

That's interesting. Uh-huh, I noticed most of stuff's very old. Very little interaction with with modern stuff. There is no reference here. I'm looking looking looking. There's no attempt to deal with John 1319 here.

We've got 828 858 but nothing about John 1319. Well Didn't look at my book obviously. Because If you allow John to be John you follow a glide me through his gospel. You see how it functions you see the citation of Isaiah 43 10 Jesus by himself.

He uses the terminology himself of himself in John 1319 you get to John 18 5 to 6 the soldiers fall upon the ground. It doesn't have anything to do with power exuding from Jesus it has to do with the pronunciation of what is in fact the divine name and they fall back upon the ground and This isn't because of some moral superiority.

Once you find a book and you see how it deals John 18 5 if it if it has to default back to The moral superiority argument then, you know, you're not dealing with anyone who's seriously dealing with the text at all you're just dealing with someone who has a Perspective and they're not gonna let the the text of the Bible get in the way of their perspective and that's what you've got with Kermit czar Lee aka Cervetus the Evangelical, so there you go.

I even got mentioned in the announcement. It says once I posted the last clue on Monday, November 15th, which subtly indicated that golf was my favorite sport. There was a flurry of guesses starting early Tuesday on Thursday morning, November 18th Steve Noel figured out who it was and told James White who then posted it on his website.

Do that post in the closing hours that day several dozen websites posted the same. Yes. Well That's how it works and we thank Steve for that. The question still goes across my mind over and over again.

Scott McKnight. What were you doing? I Had been told At the very beginning that Scott McKnight knew who this person was evidently Scott McKnight is the president of the Kermit czar Lee. What was it? Has some lectures Somewhere and Scott McKnight is described as his good friend and.

So there is connection there but I would hope. You know, I would hope rich if if you decide to go theologically crazy one day and yeah you what about me. No, no, I'm the one doing the program did that you get inundated by so much garbage every single month, I mean I'm the one most likely to go off the air.

All right, you're I let me let me change the illustration In midstream, thank you very much. If I went off and became a Sikha Buddha Muslim a Sikha Buddha Muslim Mormon witness. There you go a Sikha Buddha, but a Muslim Mormon witness.

See what I'm talking about people. There you go and. And you knew that I had. I don't think you'd be being my friend To keep my secret or what's worse. I don't think you would be the friend of the church of God of the gospel or anything else if you put friendship in Front of those things your priorities are all messed up now the only excuse that I can think of for Scott McKnight to know who this guy is know who's cranking out this this stuff attacking the deity of Christ and Not saying anything about it is because He agrees with me That it's pretty much worthless and has been refuted so many times already That it's not even worth Talking about on that level.

Maybe maybe that's his argumentation. I don't know. I don't know but I To do this kind of thing. Make claims, you know, this is well, you know, I've got a doctorate. Well, I did that to throw you all off.

It's an honorary doctorate. It was just given to him for writing some books and he's an instructor and called professor. Well, that's because he wore some glasses and he's taught people golf. So it's all meant to you know Deceive along those lines and what was the final goal sell books?

Because let's face it this kind of stuff that is in this book is Is standard fair in all your mainline Liberal denominations. I mean there are there are seminaries there are United Methodist seminaries.

You could not teach there if you didn't already believe all this stuff. So it's nothing new. I mean, it's really 1800s liberalism primarily with a few few spins from the last century and. So, there you go.

What was the other thing oh I I had also just before the program started had looked at he has a section on the crystal like that was the Christology of John and You know, it's a standard arguments on John 1 1 and John 8 58 standard Jehovah's Witness Christadelphian whatever type Arianism and.

So I looked at Hebrews because I thought hmm. He was chapter 1. And he dealt with Hebrews 1 6 and Hebrews 1 8. But not the identification of Jesus as Jehovah and Hebrews 1 10 through 12. Oops. Now maybe it's someplace else.

Like I said, there's not a scripture index. So good luck finding anything anyways, but. And since it's all the pages are sideways. It's very difficult to scan the book. You have to be holding it in a very awkward way and flipping pages and it's it's not a lot of fun.

So anyway. So ready see evangelical is Kermit czar Lee and I would say to you if you want to go to Kermit czar Lee to learn Your short game your driver, you know, learn how to use your putter whatever else it might be might be a good thing but theology don't.

Think so don't think so 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number and We've got some of our regular callers online today, don't we? Look over and go. Hey, I've seen those names before. So, I guess we'll run through them here let's talk with we'll call you Bob, how's that?

Well I'm not sure that that's a promotions, huh? That's more of an identification than anything else so What can we do for you Bob.

Debating a Friendly but Unprepared Opponent

Why did you nearly wipe out your entire. I have no idea what you're talking about, okay.

Anyway, I didn't hear anything. Rich rich rich has a feeling he knows what it was.

Yeah, somebody when they set up the recording software didn't put Push record up there. And so when who started all the software today you did. No, I didn't I didn't.

No, I Didn't I didn't fire it up. In other words, oops, it wasn't him it was never mind. So, okay. Now we know who that was. So continue on please. Okay.

My main question is about Iman Saeed.

Not I am specifically but debating. Very nice man, is that all you want to know.

Mama you can do it. I just told me to give a shout out. So I don't know ignore the people in the channel Bob. Okay, you know I'm so. You Made the statement how can people before Jesus have been saved and you know, that's kind of a common struck me that.

Someone like him I mean he comes across as a very nice fellow or and there are many other people that you know. You might encounter who are who are friendly and if you're in a debate with them, how do you express?

That the opponent is a bad guy or coming off as.

Arrogant. Well, I don't know since everyone thinks I'm the bad guy and arrogant anyways. So obviously I'm the bad the worst person in the world to ask. Because that's exactly what everybody says, but I don't think that you can avoid the conclusion the forming in the mind of the observant person that when one side is not prepared for the debate and the other side is that that that says something about the side that didn't prepare and It's amazing that in our society and I was just talking about this to some students back mid Midwest there.

And I you know Emphasize the fact that in our society today the greatest sin has become the sin of offense to dare to offend someone and so It there isn't any way to avoid A person coming to conclusion that the person you're talking to was ignorant of the subject that they raised but you don't have to sit there and pound on it and and Pound that into the ground.

That's that's where the difference is. You can I think very through the questions that you ask. Lay out your case and let the audience go. Okay you know one side seems to know what the other side saying the other side doesn't seem to and so I need to take that into consideration in evaluating the arguments that are being presented, but There's no way to avoid that if you're in a situation where the person that you're debating just is not aware of You know Christian responses or wherever else it might be you you have to bring those things out or You're in running the danger of compromising the gospel out of a fear of the face of men and a fear of Someone going.

Oh, well, you know. That guy you debated over there was such a nice guy, but you made him look bad. Well, was it was it a matter of making someone look bad or was it a matter of someone not being familiar enough?

With the subject to really be engaging in in the debate whatever happened to going. Well, you know you show respect for someone by knowing what they're gonna. They're gonna believe now in Going to the specific situation that we were talking about in New York Imam Saeed stepped in with like 10 days notice, so I don't think anyone hopefully would look at that and go.

Oh, that's just terrible blah blah blah. He should have been very repair it. Hopefully no one would be thinking along those lines. I suppose there might some be some people who would but When someone steps in you know on short notice like that that's completely different situation, but let's face it especially with liberals.

Nobody ever prepares to debate me. No, and you would think they'd have plenty of information to Realize that that's not really a good thing. Just look at what happened to Peter Stravinskis who when he was contacted and initially to do the debate on purgatory back in 2001.

Asked who would I be debating and when he was told James White his response was that he's harmless and That that that's what happens so You know I don't know. It's a really an apologetic methodology question so much as it is well If you if you pound away at something too long.

Then it starts distracting people and it takes away from the power of the argument that you're making so you for me I've sit there and go look a average intelligent person Who's listening and listening carefully now knows that I've established that point.

Let's move on that's You know that that's the difference someone else to just keep going after it. I'll move on to something else. Right. I mean unless it unless it's the the only point that the person has made or unless they're Behaving in such a way that they're never going to abandon it.

I mean that could change things I mean if there are sometimes some people that just. That's all they've got and they're gonna go to the grave defending it and that can that can change things, but Otherwise no.

You said We know what the Bible said see even James White.

That's odd numbers now. Yeah, I'm not Rashid right so. Yes, that's true and the The videos of that I am very thankful to announce we mentioned on Tuesday That we were going to try to raise the money to to get those London videos Ransomed and we have done so so we will be getting hold of those and making them available as soon as possible.

So all right Bob. Thanks for your call. Can I leave off on that one quick.

Question on Islam. Make it real quick. Make it real quick. What exactly is seek Islam? See that is long at all. Yes seek. No no no no that other one. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

I was gonna say seek Islam. I don't know what that is, but you know how does what is green taste you know I? Thanks, Bob. I'll I'll mention that so we go along here. See you later, Bob, okay? Shia Islam a huge subject that I am not Qualified to address it.

I have a number of books on Shiism that I haven't gotten to yet I would love to because some of the Islamic apologists are Shia and There's you know I mean obviously I've read more than average bear I just don't like to address something when I can't give you a lot of specifics it it goes back to a difference in how the succession of Muhammad was viewed and It goes back to some well It's mainly political at the beginning quite honestly.

I mean, it's people killing other people and All sort of things like that, but it has led to Fascinating difference in Practice I have shown pictures of The Shia Muslims cutting their heads and bleeding on themselves in a ritual that they have much more of a leaning toward the concept of Sacrifice and atonement and things like that and it's interesting the theological differences that have basically had political Histories behind them, but they also have imams and an imam a Shia imam is very different than a Sunni imam in the sense You know the pastor of the local congregation would be in a moment amongst the Sunni the Shia you know you you think of the ayatollahs and the mullahs those those are people that almost have revelatory capacity in essence and of course they're looking for the Mahdi and You've got twelve errs and seven errs and stuff like this is it's extremely complicated very very complicated.

And I that's why I just go yeah Excuse me, let's talk to Adam Adam Back, maybe I should come up with a different name. Let's we're gonna call you Charlie. How's that I? Think Adam would be fine There you go, oh man, yes, there you go.

Yes, sir. I Was listening to your series on Norman Geisler, and I had a comment that I wanted to get your take on this. I'm I. Maybe maybe I'm thinking of as I'm listening to this, but I keep on hearing not necessarily I used to Jesus from dr. Geisler, but it understandings of language.

Especially with regards to terms all men and world the the problem with especially Languages that you not only have words grammatical structure syntax and so it you've also got certain connotations and ideas that go with it for example.

One of my professors is Dutch and he told the story about how they used to Tell you in Holland will say a phrase the ministers coming everyone turns around takes their hats off and so on and so forth and the American students think wow that's really respectful and the Dutch just laughs because it goes back to a time of war when the minister had to go off to battle and When he came back into the city it was generally to tell someone that their loved one was dead.

So everyone to see who it was. Mm-hmm. And so there's a different understanding. It seems to me like to prevent Cameron Willems and Cameron. Mm-hmm, and he's a linguist as well as as well as an exegete and he it's one of the main problems with Evangelical exegesis today is that it does not speak to what he calls if you look at a text from your world and you understand words and phrases from your world in your vantage point where You have to start looking for patterns in the text different collocations of words being how certain ideas are presented and Not just in one place is basically is understanding the Bible and I think what's going on.

This is just an observation with dr Geisler and with those like him as they look at phrases like all men world and in a universalistic sense like we use them in English and He's taking that etic understanding understanding of those phrases and he's in essence Century documents and if you want to go to the Hebrew Bible, he's these ancient documents of his own Linguistic world you might say or his own as they can sign with a language game and I do agree with dr. Van Gemma that it seems like that's a major problem when it comes to Evangelical exegesis today is that it doesn't speak to really enter into the text itself.

Sometimes I can see a sermon from somebody I can predict every single point. They're going to make because I've already heard them preach a sermon on that five years ago. It doesn't seem like there's any real entering into the world of the text to try to understand the text From its own big world to understand the different connotations and ideas that are presented by various texts.

Yeah, it takes a long time. Hey, dr. Van Gemma and told us we'll probably be saying the rest of our lives and still not understand it completely.

Well, that's why that's why you need to listen to Harold camping because once you once you hear Harold the Herald would tell you you've completely missed everything because that book in Daniel 12 is the Bible and it's been opened and.

If you just added the numbers up, right, you wouldn't be having to be in seminary at all. Right and besides that are you gonna be out by May 21st of 2011?

Although this is put this way on the way I View Harold camping is ultimate example of what I'm talking about. Of course. You know where you where you have these whole numerology stuff and it just it ends up becoming a mess.

It ends up becoming whatever Harold camping season. It's it's a it's a the Bible becomes a big Rorschach blot, you know. The blot test. Where. What do you see in this. And well, I see that well, that's that's Harold camping and that's how he uses the Bible and it just becomes theological silly putty in his hands and he can form in any way he wants to and it's much less that case with Norman Geisler, but you're exactly right when he says world the very fact that he can just sit there and assume that his American evangelical audience most of whom have never done serious biblical study are just gonna buy into his use Demonstrates that yep.

He's walking lockstep with them along those lines and no, he's not entering into the the meaning of the Original languages as they were used how the how the author would have intended how the audience would have heard these words.

No doesn't doesn't doesn't matter. That's that's that's not gonna get you anywhere. That's that's not gonna get you nearly as many invitations to speak either. Just so just so you know once you.

Getting really getting invitations to speak. I guess what I'm more concerned about is just in all of them. I mean, it's it but even even if you own flock of congregation. You know if you can mentor them and disciple them so that you know, eventually they themselves can start down this journey.

Really, you know help them along to see this. I think that you know, maybe one or two is is Far better than than all the rest of the stuff in it. I.

Agree, I agree Adam. I you're you're preaching the choir now. I agree a thousand percent. You're right. That is exactly what dr. Geisler is doing and unfortunately, it is time for our break. So thanks for your call.

I'm okay. All right. Thanks a lot. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We're gonna take our break beer right back. Be right back.

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Hello everyone. This is Rich Pierce. In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man-centered self-help program The need for a no-nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater.

I am convinced that a great many go to church every Sunday yet. They have never been confronted with their sin. Alpha and Omega ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses.

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Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well. Support Alpha and Omega ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

Thank you.

Slow. Like we said we still need to get that new one to keep the dividing line going. Well, I have to remind everybody about that.

Anyhow, hey speaking of that you should mention the update on the videos, which I did while I was talking with one of the people.

Previously while you weren't nothing Tied up with the car. Actually, I think you walked out at that. Take care of a lot of things over here. Yeah, it's a busy day. Understand I understand. But yes, we did we did get the money to get the London videos and so we should have them Available as soon as well as soon as they can get here.

I suppose I've already Written and said we got it. How can we get them? So that'll be that'll be exciting. Anyway, let's clear the boards because I do have something I wanted to play. So let's talk with Gus I guess.

Hello.

The Sons of God in Genesis 6

Okay I have no earthly idea. The two theories that have been put forward.

One being the sons of God are the godly line of Seth and that that's what it's talking about the other that a Lot of people mock and deride but I think can't be dismissed in light of the commentary in Jude and 2nd Peter Has to do with angels that did not keep their first estate.

So since a number of people including John MacArthur and Kenneth Wiest and some others Have held that perspective I I would be very hesitant to join with the many who just go I just that's just ridiculous.

I may believe that's a moron and blah blah blah. You gotta you gotta explain the the 2nd Peter and Jude texts if you're if you're gonna do that, but I Don't know that we can answer that question in in any meaningful fashion.

There is one verse in Genesis 6 4 and There's no expansion upon the subject to to give you any background or or anything along those lines other than mighty men of of old men of renown. And beyond that, you know, there's the possibility that that's what Jude and 2nd Peter is talking about but others would see that in a different way and would see the angels in reference to a different act of rebellion from the Old Testament or something like that.

But I'll be perfectly honest with you. It's not something I spend a whole lot of time on.

Yeah, that was more of a minor question. I really just want to know your point of view, but my other man Chrysler involved with the Calvary Chapel movement and Now I'm just wondering I mean the doctrines of grace are really dear to me and like even just thinking about him Makes me we makes me happy and I'm wondering now in fellowship with all kinds of brethren and even hearing an Ergen Cantor sermon he did at Calvary Chapel Golden Springs recently the grace shouldn't matter.

We should get over our differences and just preach the gospel. I'm thinking to myself like oh, you know.

It's right here. You're on the program right now.

Accuse you and they tell you well, you're just being too doctrinal you're being too dogmatic on things that aren't clear.

And they are the ones who are being doctrinal and dogmatic as well. They just don't see it because they're taking Arminianism as the default position. I I know it is Obviously when you come to understand the sovereignty of God the holiness of God the power of God in The gospel and others are still holding to a more man-centered Perspective it is very easy to go.