May 16, 2023 Show with Wil Stelzer & Cory Gelbaugh on “Why We Chose a Classical Christian School Model”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 16th day of May, 2023.

I'm thrilled to have another opportunity to talk about the importance of classical

Christian education, and to do so today, we have a first -time guest and also a returning guest.

Our first -time guest is a young man whose father

I have known for decades. His father is Ron Stelzer, the pastor of Our Savior Lutheran Church, a

Missouri Synod congregation in Center Reach, Long Island, New York. But Will Stelzer is the principal of Our Savior New American School in Center Reach.

And it's my honor and privilege, first of all, to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Will Stelzer.

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. It's great to have you here. And also returning to the program for a second time is

Corey Gelbaugh. He's the founder and president of the Board of Directors at Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

He was also the sponsor of an exhibitor booth at my most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Corey Gelbaugh. Thanks, Chris.

Great to talk to you again. And I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away if they have questions about classical

Christian education. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com. chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

First of all, I'd like you to both introduce your schools to our audience by giving them a description.

Let's hear, Will, about Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, Long Island, New York.

I know it's been around for decades, but most of that time it has not been a classical

Christian school. And that's a fairly new transition that you're going through.

But tell us about this wonderful school. Yes. Well, the school started in 1992.

My dad had placed my sister and I in public school and was unhappy with the education that we were receiving there and what we were being taught there.

So he stepped out in faith and started a school at the church with the founding principal.

And there was just a dozen kids to start in one room, all different grades.

And it was just that one room for a while.

And then we expanded shortly after that into classes and grew to the point where we decided to build a building attached to the church.

And that was a blessing and purchased some fields as well. So we had some good momentum going there.

And I graduated from the school in 2001, came back and taught at the school after I did my bachelor's for a couple of years before going off to do graduate work.

And after graduate work, went to Portland and Las Vegas and served in schools in those areas.

And then I was called back to serve as the dean of students in preparation to take over as the principal because the founding principal was retiring.

So I was blessed to do that. And this is my third year doing that. And when

I took the job, I didn't have any formal principal training, just teacher training and been in schools, involved with schools all my life.

But I set about to talk to people, investigate what's the best way to educate a child and became convinced that classical education was a great option for children.

So, yes, we are in this transitional phase. And it's been great being able to give myself a classical education in the process.

But the school, it wasn't formally classical, but it did have classical underpinnings.

We did teach Latin from the start, and I was blessed to learn Latin and introduce logic as well.

And with Christ always at the center, a Christ -centered education has been the goal from the start.

So that's just a little bit about our school. Great. If anybody wants to investigate more details about Our Savior New American School and Center Reach Long Island, the website is

OSNAS, standing for Our Savior New American School, osnas .org,

osnas .org. And I'm very excited that Pete Hegseth of Fox News is returning to Long Island, New York, to do his second fundraiser, this one for Our Savior New American School in Center Reach Long Island.

He did another fundraising. He was a keynote speaker at another fundraising banquet for another classical

Christian school on Long Island, Grace Christian Academy, which is the school being run by the church where I was formerly a member on Long Island, Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

And I had the honor and privilege of being the keynote speaker for that—I'm sorry, I was the emcee, the master of ceremonies for that fundraising banquet where Pete Hegseth was the keynote speaker.

And so I'm thrilled he's coming back to Long Island because he did an absolutely mind -blowing job, a magnificent job, spelling out the great, enormous, vital importance of classical

Christian education in his keynote address that night. I was really completely impressed and, as I said before, blown away by his message.

I've always appreciated hearing him on Fox News, but obviously what he has to say is usually shortened because when a host is interviewing people, they're typically not speaking for great lengths of time.

But to see him deliver a full speech like that was an honor and privilege to hear and got the front row seat right in front of the podium to hear that.

So I'm looking forward to hearing praise reports about his second address for a second school on Long Island, Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, and I'm praying to work things out so I can be there in attendance.

I'm not 100 % sure yet I will be there, but I'm going to try. How can people register for this fundraising banquet,

Will? Yes, you can simply go to osnas .org,

O -S -N -A -S dot O -R -G, and you'll see right there on the front page, home page, there's a link where you can register.

It's quite simple. Great. Well, I hope as many of you who are in the

Center Reach Long Island area will make an effort to register for this and support a very worthy cause.

Even if you don't have children or even if your children live too far away from Center Reach to register them for Our Savior New American School, you'll be supporting a very worthy cause nonetheless to have another classical

Christian school on Long Island. In fact, there are only two right now. Am I correct? You and your school,

Our Savior New American School, and Grace Christian Academy in Merrick. Aren't those the only two? That's correct.

One in Nassau and one in Suffolk. Great. Well, we can only pray that this ideology of education catches on and that we see these classical education schools popping up all over Long Island.

Now, if you could, Corey, Corey Gelbaugh, tell us about Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Yes, so we are in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. We are in our startup year this year, so we have not been around that long, formed in 2022.

When my daughter turned four, she's now a kindergartner at Logos School, I became convicted that I wanted to tell her a different story about the world than the secular schools were telling.

And I came across a video on YouTube from the

Logos School out in Moscow, Idaho, called

Geronimo Amen, about starting a classical Christian school. And I told my wife, we're going to start this career.

My daughter Jovi's kindergarten year, and she said, no, we're not doing that. Now, she's the head of school at Logos School here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and she has really embraced that role.

Last year at this time, I believe my daughter was the only student that we had enrolled.

By the beginning of the year, we had 40 students. And now going into our second year, we are capping off enrollment at 80 students.

So God's really blessed us. It's certainly nothing that we have done, but other than trying to stay faithful to his word and let him build it.

And people have entered the picture that have given us all the resources that we need.

And it's really been a great startup year, and we're looking forward to our second year next year.

Great. And if anybody wants more details about Logos School in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, they have a

Web site that you can go to. It is LogosSchoolPA .com.

Remember that there are two S's side by side. Sometimes when you type out a

Web site where there are two words next to each other, one ending in the same letter that the other word begins with, people forget to include that second

S. But it's LogosSchoolPA .com, LogosSchoolPA .com.

Well, as we do always on this show, Will Stelzer, whenever we have a first time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony.

We already know from my opening remarks that you were a preacher's kid, a pastor's kid raised in a

Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. But even the children of Lutheran pastors don't always have the same exact identical salvation testimony.

Some believe they have been Christians from their earliest stages of life, that they can remember having conscious thought.

They don't remember a time when they were not in love with Jesus and seeking to follow him and obey him and where they were conscious that they had been given a new heart from Jesus Christ and so on.

But there are others who have a different story. Not all preachers' kids demonstrate that they are children of God from their tiniest days of childhood.

Some of them experience that later in life. So tell us about your story. Sure. Yes.

My story is coming from the Lutheran Church. I believe that I was adopted into God's family through the waters of baptism when

I was very young and that I've been fed a great diet through my parents ever since then of the word of God.

So, yes, that's that's been a blessing in my life that I've been able to be working in the vineyard from the earliest hours.

And, yes, hope to hope to do so all my life. Great. And if anybody wants to hear

Corey's testimony, if you go to the archive of IronSharpensIronRadio .com

and you type in Hegseth, H -E -G -S -E -T -H, when we had

Pete Hegseth on the program, along with Steve Schultz and Corey Gelbaugh to discuss classical

Christian education and also to promote the fundraising dinner that they had.

Last year, you can hear more about Corey's testimony that he already gave when he was a first time guest.

Well, perhaps we'll start with you this time, Corey. Why don't you give us a working definition of classical education for the sake of our listeners who did not hear your last interview and are not familiar with that term?

This may be an entirely new concept to many listeners, even

Christians, and even perhaps headmasters and principals of Christian schools.

They might not have even have heard of this concept yet. But tell us about what is a classical

Christian school. Yeah, so the Christian part of it is the integration of all subject matter with the

Scriptures at the center, which is something that I think a lot of Christian schools do well, but that we place a particular emphasis on all knowledge cohering in Christ, so that when you learn, you're actually learning about the

Creator. No matter if you're in science or English, you're not picking up and starting a new subject.

You're learning about God the whole time because fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

The classical part refers to teaching methodology as well as the content.

So as far as content goes, we study the great books of history, which we would define as those books that have stood the test of time.

Largely, our curriculum is building on the heritage of the West, because at this point in church history,

Western civilization has been the stage of the growth of the kingdom of God.

And so as Christians, we're interested in what the

Holy Spirit has accomplished to this point in history. And we study the great minds and the great ideas of history to be able to frame them in the context of God's word, see where our best minds have gone wrong, what they've gotten right.

And really have a map for our students that has an X on it in their minds that says, we are here, so they can learn their context and what the

Holy Spirit has accomplished in the future. As far as methodology, we as classical

Christian schools teach according to the medieval trivium, and within the trivium, there are three stages, grammar, logic, and rhetoric.

The grammar stage would be the acquisition of foundational facts, like learning the language of each subject, sort of like background music.

So they're acquiring facts. In math, that would be math facts. In English, it would be parts of speech.

In history, it would be mountains, rivers, dates, and timeline. Once they get a little bit older and they get good at arguing, we teach them how to do it well in the logic phase, where they sort out and organize those facts.

And then in the rhetoric phase, we teach them how to present those arguments winsomely and well, and convince others, so they can go out there into the world and become leaders.

As far as how is this biblical, classical methodology,

I think if you consider how God grows up His children in the

Bible, you could draw an analogy between the trivium and knowledge corresponding to the grammar phase, understanding corresponding to the logic phase, and wisdom corresponding to the rhetoric phase, or even priest, king, and prophets.

But I think that at its core, we see education as being the cultivation of goodness according to God's standard, which persists from age to age.

So I hope that helps. And also, I have heard a slogan attached to classical

Christian education. The slogan is, we teach students how to think, not what to think.

Would you view that as an appropriate slogan for Logos School in Carlisle?

And if so, if you could explain that a little bit further. Yeah, exactly.

We teach them how to think so that they can learn. They learn how to be human beings. They learn how to go out into the world and whatever they're called towards excelling it, because they can easily acquire the trade -specific knowledge that whatever vocation they end up in requires, because they have learned how to think and learn any new subject.

And that's particularly important these days when students who learn how to think will really stand out from those in a progressive education who have been told what to think and have no coherence in what they've learned across subjects.

And Will Stelzer, as you've already stated before, our

Savior New American School in Center Reach Long Island existed, I believe you said, since 1992.

And although it had some of the elements that would be a part of classical

Christian education, it was not officially nor wholly a classical

Christian school. How did you and or your father, Ron, find out about classical

Christian education? And tell us about the compelling factors that were involved to bring you and everybody else in decision -making authority over there to the point of saying, we've got to transition our

Savior New American School into a classical Christian school. Sure.

Well, when my dad was starting the school, I know he was familiar with Doug Wilson in the early 90s, and I believe he went out there to Idaho to just investigate a little bit on his own.

So learned about some of the important features and facets of classical education, brought that home with him.

And for me, when I took over, I had some conversations with my sister, who's actually a professor of English at Houston Christian University, now it's called, where Luis Marcos and some other people who are pretty well -known in classical education circles teach.

And she talked to me about it. Her husband talked to me about it. I also went online, did a lot of investigation of my own, saw that video that Corey was referring to, as well as many others, and just said, this is it.

This is a well -rounded education that allows and empowers students to think logically, to communicate effectively and to live virtuously.

So once I became convinced of that,

I just did as much study as I could, started reading classical books, the

Bible being number one, always read that one. But also Homer and your

Greek philosophers, your Greek playwrights, your Greek historians, and then your

Romans, and on through Augustine and all through Shakespeare down to the present day.

And just found it to be very intriguing and a good way of growing in virtue and aspiring to what is good, true and beautiful.

Great. And we are going to our first commercial break. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Will Stelzer of Our Savior New American School in Santa Cruz, Long Island, New York, and also

Corey Gelbaugh, founder and president of the Board of Directors at Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

You can send your email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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Fox and Friends Weekend co -host, and I'm so excited because I'll be coming to Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, New York on Saturday, May 20th for their annual evening banquet.

Now, by coming to this banquet, you're going to gain insight into how American education has lost its way.

We know it has. And how the rediscovery of classical Christian schools has provided families with a healthy alternative that is rooted in Christ, wisdom, virtue, and the classics.

Remember those? Look up Our Savior New American School online to sign up for this banquet while seats last.

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We're now back with our guests today, Will Stelzer, principal of Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, Long Island, New York, and Corey Gelbaugh, founder and president of the board at Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

We are discussing why we chose a classical Christian school model, and we're also promoting the fact that Our Savior New American School's fundraising banquet featuring

Pete Hegseth as the keynote speaker is taking place this

Saturday, and we hope that as many of you will register to attend that banquet as possible.

For more details on that, you can go to the website of Our Savior New American School, osnas .org,

O -S for Our Savior, N -A -S for New American School, dot org, O -S -N -A -S dot org.

We have a listener named CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

He has a question specifically for Will Stelzer, and he asks,

Will, how did the teachers that were already employed at Our Savior New American School before it was a classical school adjust to the change while you have transformed and transitioned into a classical

Christian school? Yeah, that's a great question. One of the most challenging aspects to not just understand it yourself, but to be able to convey that vision, that pedagogy to everyone else that is teaching the children.

So one of the things about classical education is it's a love for learning, hopefully to inspire students this thirst for learning, and that should apply equally to the teachers.

So it's about first and foremost having perpetual students on the staff, people who are willing to grow in every way.

They understand that they don't know everything and that there's a lot out there to learn.

So it starts with an attitude of humility, an attitude of loving to learn. And as long as you have people like that on your staff, then you're going to be able to communicate the vision of classical education because it's the proof is in the pudding.

There's a lot of literature out there now about the success of classical education and how it's effective.

So that's part of it is showing that this does not mess up kids.

It helps kids. It blesses kids. It allows them to become good thinkers, to become good communicators, to become people who are virtuous, who love what is good, true and beautiful.

So it's it's about taking a long term approach, not trying to change everything all at once, but to introduce, you know, topic by topic, thing by thing.

So we're not going to arrive there right away, but we are getting closer and closer every every single day.

That's our goal. And that's just part of the new teacher training to every year.

You can have a teacher that leaves a teacher that comes in and the process starts again.

But it starts with the attitude of the teachers. What type of a person are you hiring? Any of the teachers provide any pushback who were kind of stubborn about remaining in the old ways of thinking and so on?

I wouldn't say directly. So, no, I've been blessed with inheriting a great group of servant minded teachers who have got on board with the vision of the school.

And and put in the work to come to professional development, to listen at faculty meetings, to allow me to sit in on their classes and reflect together on on the lessons and talk about classical pedagogy and and what that means.

So, no, I've really, really been blessed in that sense. Otherwise, this would be a lot more difficult.

But I thank God for for the staff and the faculty that have have been willing to get on board.

Praise God. We have another question from Ronald in eastern

Suffolk County, Long Island, New York. And Ronald said, I heard earlier

Corey listing the things that are specifically unique to classical

Christian education as far as the classes that are taught. He mentioned

Latin and he mentioned the classics that are not necessarily uniquely

Christian. I was wondering if he could give a more detailed list of some other things that might be present at a classical

Christian school. Yes. So.

I'm sorry, that's for me or will he said, Corey? Okay, I think we'll mention

Latin, but the, the great books of history.

So, along with the last question of teaching teachers how to teach classically, we actually had no teachers who started with any classical experience in our startup year last year.

And so this is kind of the learning process that we're under right now, too, is is what exactly is at the core of classical education as far as curriculum goes and pedagogy.

So, instead of Harry Potter, we want more CS Lewis would be 1 way to say it, but we are, in some cases, replacing textbooks with the great books of history.

If, and I see, well, there has the Iliad and the Odyssey. And in his book case, but the.

Subjects as far as subjects, we still teach each of the subjects.

That you would see in any other Christian school. I would say that the difference is, is there grounding in the

Christian worldview? So, we have, for example, subject catechisms where math is the study of how

God orders his creation. Sciences study of how he upholds his creation history is the unveiling of his plan to redeem a people under himself.

And language in the arts are the living testimony of God's image bears.

We're constantly revisiting this Christian worldview with our students and in teaching them even math.

By putting Christ at the center as far as classical goes.

We are trying to recover, like I said, the medieval trivium in our teaching methodology in our curriculum.

It's going to it's a, it's a, it's different for different classical schools. But we do have classical specific curriculums, and those would differ in how we teach each subject, how we teach history where we start teaching history.

We don't start with the founding of America. We teach it from the perspective of the history of the church.

And so I don't know if that answers the question, but I don't know that there is.

A huge difference in the way that our subjects are laid out.

But the way that we approach the teaching of those subjects and the materials that we use might be different.

Well, I'm assuming that there is a huge difference between the way things like American history are taught in a classical

Christian school. As opposed to the wokes, the woke movements, revisionism of history and the brainwashing of children that white men throughout history have been inherently evil.

As opposed to people of darker complexions who are not.

Obviously, we all believe in the total depravity of man, or at least the two of us that are

Calvinists. But even my Lutheran guest believes that man is born with a morally corrupt nature.

And that would include everybody, white, brown, black, yellow.

But the modern methodology in the government schools seems to be an attempt to brainwash kids that all of the heroes that people were formerly embracing in their minds and hearts.

That had to do with the founding of America and American history in general.

More and more teachers are telling their children or their students,

I should say, they're acting like they're their own children. But their students are telling them to jettison these heroes and these views of them in favor of a revisionism.

So, am I correct in saying that you're not just teaching the same, necessarily even from the same books, and obviously not a lie from Satan that is being perpetuated by the government schools?

Yeah, that's right. And saying that we're building on the heritage of the West in and of itself is not politically acceptable in today's world.

But you can't teach kids to honor and respect other cultures by teaching them to despise their own culture.

Just like you can't teach a son to respect his mom by disrespecting other people's moms.

I think we approach Bible history, we approach history as Bible history being the core and driving force of all other history.

Because eventually, that's the way that it's going to play out. And the history of humanity is under God's control.

This is why our school theme is learning through story, because we try to paint our students into a story.

Because if they're more interested in their story, they'll be more interesting as a person and go out into the world and be agents of transformation.

So God transforms us, and we transform the world. And we tell them that story in every subject, not just history, every day.

We have a question, and I'll have Will first give an answer.

We have a question from RJ in White Plains, New York, who says,

I have heard that classical Christian education typically does not shelter children from the ideology and worldviews of secular society, including the unbiblical teachings of Darwinian evolution.

Not that they teach those things as truth, but that they let the children know and be aware of these things so that they can more successfully counteract them with biblical truth when engaging the culture and their lost friends around them.

Is this true, and is that something that is implemented by your school in Center Reach, New York?

Yes, that's a good point. For our older students, we want them to be able to decide, discern, and defend, right?

We don't want to just feed them knowledge, and they regurgitate it back to us on a test and call that education.

Because if that's what they're trained to do, then they go on to the next step and listen to their college professor, who may or may not have a similar worldview, and repeat that process.

And probably lose their faith in the process because they haven't been taught to do those things, to decide, to discern, and to defend.

So, we want to expose them to the world, as far as their ideas out there, and show how they stand up to the

Christian faith. And if they're consistent and coherent, and if it jives with reality, to be able to usher in evidence, to have good reasons for saying something.

So, in our Bible classes, yes, in our science classes, in our math classes, we want to look at reality and say, does reality comport better with the atheistic, secular view of things?

Or the Marxist way of looking at the world, or the New Age way of looking at the world, or with the

Christian way of looking at the world? Which one jives? Which one has the best reasons?

Which one is reasonable? So, yes, absolutely. In all those subjects, we want to expose them to what the world is saying, and ask them what they think at the end, and challenge them to defend.

Sometimes a teacher is encouraged to play devil's advocate, and ask questions of the students, instead of just giving them answers all the time.

And we will get Corey's response to that same question when we return from our midway break.

Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is a bit longer than the other breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the

FCC requires of them to localize this program, and all of their programs, geographically to Lake City, Florida.

They do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air in the middle of our show, while we simultaneously, on the other hand, air our globally heard commercials.

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We hope that that often means you'll buy their products, use their services, support their parachurch organizations, and visit their churches.

But when you cannot do any of those things, there's one thing that every Iron Trumpets Iron Radio listener who loves the show can absolutely do.

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Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

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Before I return to my guests, Will Stelzer, Principal of Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, Long Island, New York, and Corey Gelbaugh, Founder and President of the

Board of Directors at Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, I just have some important announcements to make.

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So if you are without a church home that's biblically solid, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Will Stelzer of Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, New York, and Corey Gelbaugh of Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And, Corey, you may recall I wanted you to also answer the question that was first given to Will about how classical

Christian schools have a reputation in their methodology of education, their ideology, their worldview, not to shelter students from secular ideas, secular ideologies, even if they are wrong.

Even if they are evil. Even if they militate against God's word. Because you want to equip the children to know how to interact with people professing and promoting and pushing those ideas in day -to -day conversations and in the classrooms of secular schools when they are in college and so on.

So tell us about your thoughts on that. Yeah, this was a huge—this is a great question.

This is a huge thing for my wife and I when deciding to start a classical Christian school.

And it's largely, in my mind, what separates classical Christian education from a lot of Christian schools is its stance towards the culture.

Will mentioned Doug Wilson earlier. He's a pioneer of classical Christian education in America.

He says it like this. So yes to Christian, why classical? We want—and it's because we want the

Christian part to be more than two inches deep. An evangelical,

Jesus -y feel type of faith can't stand up to the brutality that the world has to offer these days, especially when they go off to college.

All the way from the faith. And I just want to reiterate what

Will said about teaching students, what do I believe and why?

And what does the world believe and why is it wrong? So they can have that discernment. And that's why for our older students,

Darwin's origin of species is required reading because we want them to be able to make the case for Darwinism better than the evolutionists can.

We want them to go out into the world and fight like a Christian and win the battle of ideas.

See an idea and be able to say, well, that's nihilism. That's rationalism. That's empiricism.

And really focus on that Christian worldview part of things.

You know, we're told to bring our children up in the Paideia of the Lord. Paideia is probably one of the best words to summarize classical

Christian education. And it means enculturation. And one of the ways to teach children who they are is to teach them who they are not.

And so we're not going to have, we're not going to, of course, age appropriately. We're not going to retreat into our little corner over here.

We're going to discuss these ideas and not be afraid to learn new things in any subject.

And why? Because the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.

All knowledge, all wisdom belongs to him. And we shouldn't be afraid of it. Well, I hope when you're teaching the children, the students at Logos School of Carlisle, about Darwin's book, that you make it clear to them that Darwin was a racist and that his original title of Origin of the

Species, which you never hear in the media, is On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favored Races in the

Struggle for Life. A lot of people may not be aware of that full title because very few people ever bring it up in media, especially in the leftist media, obviously, because they are typically

Darwinian by profession and think that they're anti -racist and they will actually slander

Christians for being racist. But the man at the core of their unbiblical, so -called scientific explanation of the existence of humans is rooted in racism.

Exactly. And that's why the Nazis really liked Darwin and invoked his ideas consistently.

Yep. Okay. We have a listener from right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. I'll let

Will respond to this first. Hi, Chris. My name is

Nick and I am from Carlisle, Pennsylvania. What would your guests say are the biggest threats to classical

Christian schools such as theirs? Excellent question, Nick. And Will, if you could start.

The biggest threat? Well, our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual forces of evil.

In the heavenly realms. And also the battle within.

So I think the biggest threat is Satan. I think the biggest threat is our sinful flesh.

To desire the things of the world instead of the things of God. And that's where we need the

Word of God to be forefront. Forefront from the beginning of the day to the end of the day.

To proclaim the name of Jesus. To worship. And to pray.

So I think that that's threat number one. To know that there is a battle going on.

And we need to be armed and equipped for that battle. And keep in mind that the listener did say the biggest threats to classical

Christian schools. So how would the world, the flesh, and the devil be manifesting itself in a unique way in being a threat to classical

Christian schools? Well, in New York, for example, it's difficult to have a

Christian school in general. Okay? Christian school, classical Christian school. We don't have any school choice here.

The dollars that the parents spend in their taxes, which are very high, go to the public schools.

So it's difficult financially in one sense. It's difficult because New York State is one of those states that does not allow the parents to...

Well, if they don't want to immunize their child. If they want to have a religious exemption, that's no longer allowed in the state of New York.

So they're also pushing education further and further down, where there's universal pre -K.

And it's supposed to be this thing that helps people, and yet it's just something that requires more taxes.

So the government has more control. And it's another place where they're able to indoctrinate and teach everything but what children need the most.

So those are a couple threats that the state of New York poses for us.

And of course, the state of New York would be also known as the devil that you mentioned before. And Corey, what are your thoughts on that?

Well, the obvious one, and like Will said,

I do believe there's spiritual forces behind these things. But the obvious one would be the woke ideology that is just in the air that we breathe.

And some of us, we don't even realize what we're bringing from the culture into the life of our schools.

Because it's just always been that way. And so really protecting against that, and that goes along with continued education for teachers and worldview training for parents especially.

Because parents are the most important part of establishing the culture of the school, in my opinion.

Parents need to be of the same mind or at least acknowledge the vision of these schools in order for it to succeed.

Because God grants authority to them in the education of their kids.

And the kids need to see that their parents are behind, standing right behind the teachers who are enforcing the vision of the school.

So the other one that I think could creep in is just, we want to be intellectuals, we want to learn.

But we don't want to fall into intellectualism or rationalism and try to reason to God rather than worshiping

Him. And I think within classical circles, if we're going to fall off the road on the other side from the woke ideology, that might be it.

It's just a sort of conceit to think we're intellectuals and we can prove, for example,

God's qualities are required. We can reason directly to the

Trinity rather than accepting a certain degree of mystery to God and just realizing that He is bigger than our reason.

And so that would be probably the other side of the potential dangers that I see.

And that's really not dissimilar from progressive education, which says that all we can know, we can know from our senses.

As Christians, we don't believe that. We believe that there's more to be known, and we want to constantly keep that in mind across our learning.

By the way, Nick, I think you're a first -time questioner. And if that is the case, please email me your full name and your full mailing address because you have just won a new

New American Standard Bible. Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

who will ship that Bible out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio if you are a first -time questioner.

So let us know and give us your shipping information. By the way, because of that question that Nick asked,

I want to highlight a former guest that I've had on the program on a number of occasions.

After this live show is over, you might want to look up my interviews with Audrey Werner.

Audrey is a former sex educator and an

STD clinic nurse, that's sexually transmitted disease clinic nurse.

And she has written a book that is quite profound on sex education.

And one of the interviews I conducted with her was

Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Deviant and Architect of the Sex Education Curriculum for America's Children.

And you will shudder and recoil in horror when hearing about how even professively

Christian schools have adopted a sex education curriculum that is based, and I'm hoping it's unbeknownst to these school leaders, based in part on Alfred Kinsey who was, as the title of that interview suggests, was a sexual deviant.

And so if you go to ironsharpensirenradio .com and you go to the search engine, type in her first name,

Audrey. She's the only guest I've ever had, apparently, named Audrey. And all of the interviews will come up.

And it's disturbing that even professively Christian schools, and I'm not even talking about merely the liberal mainline schools.

I'm talking about schools from the evangelical churches, conservative evangelical churches, and even the more conservative

Lutheran denominations and so on. Audrey herself is a Lutheran, and she has been trying to get parochial schools to abandon their sexual education curriculum if it is featuring some of this garbage from the pit of hell in there.

Let's see, we have a listener who, let's see here,

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York. Bobby in Hartsdale, New York said,

I believe it was Will who earlier said that he has been taught

Latin as a child and that that has remained in the new curriculum that has been adopted by the school where he is the principal.

Can you tell us what is the value of that unless somebody plans on becoming a doctor?

I think that's a pretty decent question, Will. Why is it valuable for children, no matter what dream they have for their vocation or calling in their life, whether they want to be a doctor, whether they want to be a pastor, a theologian, or if they want to be a carpenter and a plumber and a car salesman, why is

Latin going to help them in their life? Sure, yeah, great question.

Latin is not only the vocabulary of those professional careers like biology or law and others, but it's the foundation of our own language and many other languages, romance languages.

I think over 50 % of our language comes from the

Latin language, so it's a fountain source and we're able to understand our language much better by understanding the roots because many

English words come from one Latin root. So, if you learn that, you're in good shape.

Also, it develops an orderly mind. Latin, just to translate one verb, for example, you have to make about a dozen mental moves in your head.

You have to identify the tense and the voice and the mood and the person and the number and then all of the various translation options and choosing where that fits in the sentence because Latin is not based off of first to second to third in word order.

It's based off of Latin endings that you have to memorize and pay attention to. So, it teaches attention to detail, analyzing something, breaking it down, and then synthesizing, putting it back together.

So, someone who's been trained up in that is better off verbally and better off just systematically in their head of solving problems.

In that way, it's very much like solving a math problem where you have to go through the steps and figure it out and also have that nuance of knowing how language works and understanding context and how that affects everything.

So, it's so beneficial. I think that that was probably the most beneficial subject that I studied growing up in helping me develop a discipline and an orderly mind.

And Corey, if you could give your thoughts on Latin. I think we'll hit most of them.

I would just add that with having a daughter in kindergarten who is learning

Latin sing -song right now, a major reason to learn Latin is that it's super cute.

Let's see. We have another question. We have—let's see.

I just had it in front of me. Oh, we have an anonymous listener who wants to know,

I've been having some conflict with my spouse over switching the school where our children are currently being educated to a classical

Christian school. Tell me how to overcome the arguments in favor of sending

Christian kids to government schools. And let me start this time with Will, since Corey just spoke.

That's a good question. I think that it's nice to visit these schools and to see, to experience the difference.

I think it's also good to read a lot and watch a lot.

There's a Good Soil report that the Association of Classical Christian Schools conducted where they surveyed the graduates of classical schools and compared them with other school graduates of public school, of home school, of Christian school, of private school, and how the classical school graduates fared as far as just life satisfaction, as far as just willingness to help, as far as being biblically grounded.

That's something to look at as well. And just reading scripture and seeing how do we best train up our son or our daughter in the

Lord, in the nurture and admonition of the Lord? How do we best do this? And if it's not public education and we're seeing that classical education is that route, then what kind of sacrifices am

I willing to make in my life to put my child first, to put the kingdom of God first above other things?

Yeah, I'm assuming that that's one of the biggest arguments that parents have to send their kids to government schools, also known as public schools, is that, hey, we can't afford it.

And, Corey, not only that, but perhaps

I'll add into the listener's question another argument that I've even heard

Christian parents say. They will say, I'm confident my kids, knowing enough about the

Bible and about the Lord and about the gospel, from what they hear in our church and in our home,

I'm confident enough that they're not going to be dissuaded from those things, and they'll even be possibly effective evangelists to the lost kids around them in that school.

I'll throw that into the mix of a defense for public schools.

How do you respond to that as well? Yeah, that's the salt and light argument, and I would just remind people to remember the conclusion of that verse is that we don't want to lose our saltiness.

You're putting your kids at risk of that, I think, by sending them off too young to do something that is even hard for us as adults to do.

I think this was a big point of contention between my wife and I when I first introduced her to classical

Christian education. We both went to public school. We moved to our current home to go to the public school in our neighborhood.

All of our families were public school teachers. But we started to think about the number of hours that is spent in public school compared to what we have at home.

These kids, they come home tired, so it's really hard to get a word in after school, but it's just something that is really hard to overcome.

For me, I was concerned about the big things like everybody else.

I don't want my kids learning about critical race theory, thinking they can choose their own gender, all of that stuff that's very obvious on the surface that we can get people to fight against.

What concerned me was the little things that over the course of the day, that is constantly informing their view of the world, painting them into a story that is not

God's true story. It's not God's view of the world that they need to have in their heads to be able to know who they are and why they're here.

That's happening subtly everywhere you turn. When you turn on the TV all day at school, these worldview foundational assumptions are being planted into your kids' heads.

We did not want that, and that was the main motivation for starting our school. I would just add about the

Good Soil report. Definitely check that out. If you get the objection that kids who go to classical

Christian schools tend to be wealthier from families where their parents are more involved, they adjusted for all of that.

Most of the studies in there, when you see the drastic positive impact of classical

Christian education, is adjusted for all of those contributing factors.

It's all things held constant. How does the type of school affect this outcome?

So, definitely check out the Good Soil report. I think you can find that on the

Association of Classical Christian Schools website. Well, we're going to our final break right now.

If you have a question, submit it as quickly as you can, because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages. Do not go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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So disregard the website that you heard in that commercial. We're now back with our guests

Will Stelzer and Corey Gelbaugh. We have been discussing why they chose a classical

Christian school model. We have time for one more question. An anonymous listener wants to know, can a school be trusted to be according to your description of it if it has a name like a classical

Christian school? Or does more investigation need to be done to make sure they are really a classical

Christian school according to the authentic definition? And let's start with Will and have

Corey answer second. Yes, I think it's always important to do your homework, especially when it comes to your child's education.

Like we were saying before, a child spends a lot of time in school. And it's important that the influences that they're receiving are positive ones.

Paul tells us bad company corrupts good character. So we want to be careful about that with respect to secular schools.

And with respect to Christian schools and classical schools in particular, we want to ask our questions.

What is in the curriculum? What is the philosophy of teaching? And how do they begin and end their day?

What kind of things go on at the school? So I think it's always important to do your homework.

The classical school movement has been expanding, and that's a blessing.

And I think that for the most part, if a school has classical label to it, that's a trustworthy one.

But I would always tell parents to do their homework and ask the right questions. Visit the school, sit down with the head of school, sit down with the principal, and try to experience as much of it as possible.

Anything to add, Corey? You can check their affiliations.

If they're a member or accredited by the Association of Classical Christian Schools, they at least have the

ACCS signing off on them as a classical

Christian school. Also, just go in and get to know the people, especially the people in administrative positions and on the board.

And test whether they're willing to stand up to the onslaught that we as classical

Christian schools inevitably face from the culture. And I know that Corey Gelbaugh's website for the

Logos School of Carlisle, Pennsylvania is logosschoolpa .com,

logosschoolpa .com. And the website for the Our Savior New American School in Center Reach, Long Island, New York is osnas .org.

Os, for Our Savior, nas, for newamericanschool .org.

Osnas .org. And don't forget to go to that website to register for the fundraising banquet taking place this

Saturday featuring keynote speaker Pete Hegseth. I'm sure you will be richly blessed by Pete's keynote address.

If you want to hear the interview I did with Pete on classical Christian education on September 26th of last year, go to ironsharpensironradio .com

and type in Hegseth in the search engine, H -E -G -S -E -T -H.

And you will be able to hear him speak on this issue that may whet your appetite to want to register for this fundraising banquet this

Saturday. Well, I want to thank both of you for being such excellent guests today. I want to thank the listeners for tuning in today and listening, and we want to thank especially the listeners who submitted questions today.

Nick in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, we still didn't get your mailing address for the free New American Standard Bible, so make sure that you send that to us so that cvbbs .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that Bible out to you. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater